JSRE Rod Bolt stretch ( wear ) indicator

[Jay Smith]

How many of you "gear heads" would use or be interested in start using a VERY reasonably priced dial indicator that measures the stretch of your OB rod bolts after torque and use ? I use one and they will tell the story of the condition of your BIG $$$ SPS rod bolts , when to replace and when to run them .........Will work on all OB rod bolts.


I am making 2 for friends now and will make a few more if folks are interested ...... Price range would be $50.00 ish....

Just wondering , when the mill is set up to do machine work its just as easy to make 10 as it is 2 .....

Happy Holidays.....

[Fl Boy in ILL]

Jay

Get a hold of Pops and tell him how it works, if he likes it get us one

Rick

[150aintenuff]

if I had the $$$ i would darn sure get one... if you do a run could you let me know say mid febuary??? then more $$$ will be available... im still in limbo as our boating season hasnt started yet..

[Ray Neudecker]

Please add me to your list. Jay Smith gadgets are always a great deal.

[red hott]

Im in call me when its ready directions included?
Tray

[Fast Fred]

is it just the jig? do i need my own dial indicator? for free standing bolts only,
or freestanding and installed bolts?

I would like one, and most important the specs to tell the dif' between good and not good :cool:
thanks
FF

[steve]

Can never measure too many things in a motor. Sounds like a must have item to me. So are you measuring, torqing and then measuring the stretch ? Too much stretch means its a risk to run. Sounds like a plan.

[Markus]

I would like one.

[terrygdsdn]

Jay put me down for one, Incedentially the drag ported block you did for me is outstanding. Great machine work thanks Terry Brown 256-490-0647

[props4u2]

Count me in Jay.

Lee

[David Borg]

I'm interested count me in Jay

David

[Jay Smith]

Dog Gone I didn't know how much interest there was gonna be , I have parts to manufacture only 2 ordered but I will order more parts. Take only 3 to 4 days to get the parts in after the holidays !

FYI: It will be to measure free standing bolts and EVERYTHING will be included to accurately measure the stretch. ( bolt length ) I use a new bolt as a constant , set the dial at 0 then measure the used bolt and observe the plus measurement over and beyond that will indicate the amount the bolt has stretched. My NHRA Pro Comp. guy told me they disguard at a + .010" strectch indication. I play it safe and would discard at .005" ....The JSRE tool will consist of a frame , bottom point , and an adjustable 1" travel dial indicator .......I will contact ya'll when they are ready to ship....



Thanks for the interest Guys !

[Rickracer]

I've been planning on getting a rod bolt stretch gauge for quite a while anyway, and I'd rather buy something you build than something made who knows where. :cool:

[Superdave]

OOH OOH OOH - pick me, pick me :D


one please
SD

[150aintenuff]

jay let me know how much it will cost, and when you getready to do another batch... if $$$ is availale in the budget I will get one..

[R.Johnson]

If you are using a new bolt as a constant, would'nt any Vernier, dial, or digital caliper do the same thing?

[Rickracer]

....have you tried getting one of the tools mentioned into a crankcase to do the measuring? It might work on some motors, but not on the great majority of them. A dedicated tool for that is the best, surest way to accomplish the task. Also, part of the purpose is to use bolt stretch as a more accurate measure of proper bolt preload, as opposed to tightening torque. Tightening torque is only a means of obtaining the proper rod bolt preload, and bolt stretch is a better, (and more accurate), means of accomplishing that. :cool:

[Jay Smith]

Done been there Mr. Johnson ,

Vernier calibers are not accurate as dial indicators and Mics ( in the real world calipers are very close but one would not machine to a measurement obtained with that alone and when we are talking about only a .005" margin to use or diccard in this situation close in not accurate enough ) also these tools I am in the process of making now ( and all that are on the market that were strickly designed for THAT purpose but at a very higher price made by ARP, Snap On, etc.. ) have two needle contact ends not flats like a mics and calibers. Hopefully these will also be able , through design , to be able to measure the stretch when the bolt is installed on the rod is so desired and any other measurement method will not gauge the end bolt as most ending threads are counter sunk in the rod body boss ! ( some would like to gauge the stretch after torqued ) If they are gauged standing alone the caliber still will be a guess because of the mill slag around the ending thread is not a consistant area from bolt to bolt and cannot get to the middle ( center ) of the bolt to be measured with flat ends!

BTW: Most quality ( Brown and Sharp ) but "cheapest" Micrometers that have the point contacts on the ends sell for $104.50 +Tax and are in my discount tooling cat. ( Rutland Air Gas 2004 Cat . Page 751 part # 2202-5262 ) and has an extended range of 2" that will work on most 2.5 Mercs but I have my doughts on 3 liters and OMC's as bolt lengths may be longer ( I'm not farmiliar with those exact lengths as those engines thier bolts are so cheap they are an expendable comodity anyway at rebuild time verses the big $$$ SPS.) The only pair of Dial or Digital Calipers that I found with applyable points is $548.00 ( same book part # 2217 1050 ) My tool is half the price of the cheapest available and IS designed to do the job it was intented for not a make shift. Me being an engine guy I build tools for myself that helps ME and I USE , EVERY tool that I design and deside to sell to the public is a speciality item and will serve its purpose well as the JSRE TDC gauge, Flywheel puller / lifting eye that all bolts heads are the same as the flywheel nut as so on ! Most "things" that I deside to manufacture and sell to the public have been after MANY sleepless nights and many hours checking availability of a like tool , for me to copy the same tool would be a mote point for me to waste my time if its already out there at a reasonable price the average home builder can afford unless the tool available is made from inferior materials or after use damages the part being worked on ! I make things that are accurate enough for desision making wheather a part is usable or needs to be discarded , I might make it out of weird things but guess what ? THEY WORK , ask the hundreds of folks ( and dealers ) that are sporting a JSRE TDC tool, or a Flywheel puller in thier tool boxes and are happy with years of trouble free service at a fraction of the cost of a snap on or having to replace crankshafts from junk flywheel pullers splitting the ends of thier zillion $$ cranks.....

Sorry for the drawl I need to change to de caf !

Love ,
Jay

[sosmerc]

Sounds like a useful tool and I'd like to have one. But I also need for you to come up with another tool......Seems my customers are always asking "How much longer is my engine going to last?" Do you suppose you could come up with a tool that could be held up against their powerhead and would then flash some sort of code...this code could be interpreted to mean "not much longer"....or "another season"......."it's done now"!! :)

[R.Johnson]

Are you trying to measure stretch, or shear? If stretch, you would need a stud, with a nut. I am lost as how you intend to measure the torsion, or shear strength of a bolt, using a dial indicator. If you are using one, as in one run of manufactured bolts, you would take that bolt to failure, in torsion, or shear. Take the amount of torgue , or shear required, torque in this case, and base your figure's on that. A hardened bolt would take a given amount of force in stretch to failure, which would be very high, but snap like glass in torsion, which could be very low. I would just buy new bolt's.

[Jay Smith]

R. Johnson ,

These tools are used by top car engine builders and the informantion I get from them is the data these tools reveal or indicate is the determining factor when to use and discard rod bolts due to excessive stretch over an beyond the manufacturers spec , being around some top NHRA Pro Comp Motors and seeing them using these gauges EVERYTIME a motor is put together I started following suit thinking it was a good idea, after all a Mercury Drag Race motor in a full blown modified state makes MORE HP per cubic inch than an NHRA 500 CI Pro Stock Chevy motor quite expensive to piece back together after a failure and would be just as deservant to check thier rod bolts wear as the Chevys are as 2 cycles are alot harder on parts that 4 cycles . SPS rod bolts are quite expensive and I was trying to build an affordable tool for the Merc motors to keep a handle on these parts wear issues and at $50.00 to me it is quite a bargin ( I'd pay $50.00 to watch two frogs have intercoarse ! LOL...... ) , the parts and freight will be 3/4's of the cost so this tool is not allowing me to retire early with the profits made LOL........

If there is no use or purpose for this tool why are they in EVERY vendors cat. that market race car parts ??? My suggestion if you choose to buy new SPS bolts they are $180.00 a set for 12 for a V-6 mercury go for it . Mr Johnson I don't push my ideas, products, tools , or services on anyone nor am I going to argue the vaility of the use of a tool that is commonly marketed, used successfully , and sold in good faith to customers for the use in engine building and determining usability of a part to ward off a possible "preventable" failure .

PS>>>>> Mr. Johnson,

After reading your post further we are not even on the same page ( nor in related books as far as that goes ! LOL.... ) as the the purpose on these gauging tools , I am not pulling to failure nor do I care as the SPS rod bolts will pull break to 243,000 lbs tensle strength ( been there and done that ! ) and on a rod bolt with a cranked cap rod I can see no possibility for a side or shear load !

Have a nice day !

[R.Johnson]

What datum point are you using to failure? If you are going to make a tool, make it shiny, shiny sell's. I think your thought's are very nebulois, ( such as cloudy) bolt stretch has been used a long time in engineering, as to bridge building. Sound's like re-inventing the wheel. Measure any bolt, at any point, and see if you can stay within .005. By the way! the pointed measuring point's has been thought of.

[rob@umt]

hey jay. man, you have be at work to have all that time to sit and type.

[us1]

Jay are you loosing your mind :D You are arguing with a guy that has 6 posts (fishy in itself) and has never heard of a Bolt stretch indicator but wants to tell you don’t know what you are talking about. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[R.Johnson]

us1: what difference does it make in the matter of post's? If I were you! I would buy that tool, think how it would look in your tool box. Gee! I can measure bolt stretch! Kind of. Question! could you put a handle on a **** house door, and get it straight?

[us1]

us1: what difference does it make in the matter of post's?

Well, for the benefit of the readers, when a new poster mysteriously appears for the sole purpose of discrediting a high profile member 99% of the time its just another jealous want-to-be with a new allies. We don’t need to discuss the tool. Greg, check his IP for me.

[Jay Smith]

Yep your correct John ya know ya try to be curtious and go to great lengths trying to explane ( too much damn time, I have learned a lesson here , ) its kinda like the old country saying "when you enter into a wrestling match with a hog after a while you figure out your just getting muddy and the damn hog likes it ! LOL...........

R.Johnson you are correct this and all other measuring tools that are sold to all these car racers and is in every race car tooling cat. on the planet is just a ploy trying to get thier money with a tool that tells them nothing ! Also at 68 years old ( if your profile in not bogas ) looks like you would have learned not to be so rude ..........

You can think what you want of me and my abilitys and products I REALY could care less but down grading John Marles and his known abilitys put you in the "lost ball in the high weeds " group to me and most on this board , good day Sir !

BTW: You've made a hellofa impression for just 7 posts !

Anybody else want me to answer a lidgimate question fire away and I'll help if I can and if I don't know the answer I call R. Johnson ;) :D ! ( Just kidding ! )

Happy New Year to all !

[Riverratt]

R.Johnson you are correct this and all other measuring tools that are sold to all these car racers and is in every race car tooling cat. on the planet is just a ploy trying to get thier money with a tool that tells them nothing !
I knew it! It is all about the bling bling factor isn't it? :D

[Fast Fred]

yup, thats the sound it makes when the rod bolt lets go,

Bling, Bling, BOOM! :eek: :cool:

[THE FAST ONE]

:o :eek: :(
Jay are you loosing your mind :D You are arguing with a guy that has 6 posts (fishy in itself) and has never heard of a Bolt stretch indicator but wants to tell you don’t know what you are talking about. :confused: :confused: :confused:HEY JAY,JOHN'S RIGHT,YOU GONNA MAKE YOUR SUGAR GO UP:mad: :mad: :mad: -ED

[Ziemer]

Just a quick question that's somewhat leads back to R. Johnson's question. If you were to measure length's of say 10 new rod bolts, would they all be exactly the same? Like mentioned above .005" is pretty accurate, and I'm just wondering what the acceptable manufacturing tolerance is to a new rod bolt?

(This is not to argue with anyone, just trying to understand a little better. ;) :D )

[Fast Fred]

Stretch, measurein stretch, checks how strong the bolt is. it's guna stretch
when torqued, some stretchin is ok, to much, bolt is weak. :cool:

[us1]

Just a quick question that's somewhat leads back to R. Johnson's question. If you were to measure length's of say 10 new rod bolts, would they all be exactly the same? Like mentioned above .005" is pretty accurate, and I'm just wondering what the acceptable manufacturing tolerance is to a new rod bolt?

(This is not to argue with anyone, just trying to understand a little better. ;) :D )

I like the way you tip-toe through the tulips :D Your pistons and rods are shipping today :cool: