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View Full Version : What to Do Now? F225 or HPDI 300



alaskaops
12-26-2005, 06:07 PM
I have a fleet of 7 boats all using single F225 4 strokes. I switched from the standard saltwater 2 stroke 225's to the F225's when they came out a few years ago. I have used Yamaha's on all of our boats since 1992 and we perform very good maintenance on all the engines exceeding Yamaha's recomendations. We always keep two spare units in the shop ready to bolt on at anytime which means we need to have 9 engines always in operating condition. Since purchasing our first F225's we have had 5 powerhead failures.

Three had blown headgaskets- Yamaha covered the parts on two, no labor on any.

Two had cracked cases both on the starboard top just under the flywheel- Yamaha covered parts on one, nothing on the other.

The blown head gasket engines had about 600 hrs on them and were the first run of F225's from yamaha.

One of the cracked case engines had 1400 hrs on it and the other had 1601 hrs on it. These two engines were the longest running F225's we have had to date. Not very impresive, as we could get a very reliable 1600 hrs our of the origanal two stroke 225's. All of our boats are of the same make and carry the same loads.

We put right at 500hrs a year on our engines (all in the months of June, July, and August), our boats must leave the dock every day for 90 days straight, so we REALLY need reliability with no down days.

With all this said, I am adding two more identical boats to the fleet. At this point in time I have two F225's in the shop needing new powerheads (again...) and I'm really questioning purchasing my 9th and 10th F225 concidering the service history I have had with them.

Here is my question:
Should I try the HPDI 300 (which is less money), but has a very questionable past, or should I stick with the F225's (which is more money), but is supposedly is a more reliable engine than the HPDI. Cost really isn't the factor here, I just need to find an engine that will be reliable for more than 1600hrs.

Does anyone think that the HPDI 300 could be more reliable than the F225??

I don't like mix matching engine makes and models so I'm looking for the best possible engine available and stick with it. I have a heard a rumor that Yamaha will be releasing a 300hp four stroke soon and at that time will stop producing the HPDI 200hp plus versions. Does anyone think this will happen?

Any suggestions would really help,


Thanks!

scott@elcapitanlodge.com

VectorPat
12-28-2005, 09:42 PM
I think I would stick with the F225 or go up to the F250 which is much stronger than the F225. I am not sure what is going on with your engines as the F225s have been a very reliable engine. I do know that for 06 they did change the head gasket design slightly, this may have been what was causing some of your issues. Eventually there will be larger 4strokes, when and how big remains to be seen, all I can say is it will be BIG...

ptextreme
12-28-2005, 11:18 PM
I also had a f225 it was a good motor other than the 3 sets of injectors and 2 sets of fuel pumps with only120hrs on it. I have a friend who works for yamaha service at the main service center in georgia. we had the very same talk about 2 weeks ago, I asked him about repowering with a 300hpdi, from a merc 250efi, he recomended going to a f250 or a 250hpdi, they put out a true 250 hp, and the 300hpdi barely puts out 300hp, sometimes less, they can go 10% either way. he also told me that the 250xs merc would out perform the 300hpdi in fuel mpg and performance. Before he went to work for yamaha he was a mechanic, and worked on them all, I have always trusted his opinion, since he was not trying to sell me one unlike a salesman,he would always give his honest opinion if you liked it or not.

150aintenuff
12-29-2005, 01:59 AM
im a yamaha 2 stroke fan.. and the simpler you can get them the better IMO.. a 25o HPDI is an excenent motor and would put your fleet with in the same range for props and ect so spare parts would require less shelf space.. I havent seen many engines in guide service duty last 1600 hrs and those that do usually last 3000+.. but the 225 and 250 HPDI have been working well for the people who use then salmon fishing here in Oregon.. there are a few F225s as well as Merc V6 4 strokes(same motor) and they have had a few injector and head gasket issues but no block failures... could it be the cold water you have is cold sceizing them???? but have always from what i have seen made it to the dock under their own power.. as for the F250 havent seen any put into Guide duty here yet... but I am sure there will be a few this year will know next week.. there are 5 boats around the area with 300hpdis and they have been happy SOFAR.. but arent much stronger than the 250's.. especially in the XL and XXL shaft lengths... seems that yamaha detunes them from the Vmax settings slightly making a 300 hp motor feel more like 275... and the 250 will run right with it on a 25' open sled... ..

alaskaops
12-29-2005, 10:21 AM
Thanks to all of you for the replies, this info is very helpfull info.

A question I have on the f250 is if it is the same block as the 225 bored and tweeked out or does it have a different block than the f225? If it is the same block, do you think it will be as strong as the f225?

Thanks!

VectorPat
12-29-2005, 10:51 AM
It is basicly the same block.They actually just change the f225 block to the same casting as the F250. Some of the internals are. The intake system is completely different on the F250 and it also has Variable Intake Cam Timing. The whole fuel system and electronices are different also.

alaskaops
12-29-2005, 11:09 AM
Do you think the changes in the intake and fuel systems are more or less reliable than the f225? How long has the f250 been in service?

Anyone know of any "known" issues with the f250, like the head gasket issue the f225 started out with?

Thanks again!

VectorPat
12-29-2005, 11:58 AM
As far as which is more reliable, who knows... The elec fuel pumps are the same. The biggest problems with the fuel systems on any of these newer engines almost always comes down to fuel contamination or fuel system restrictions. This is what usually causes the pumps to fail. It is extremely important to keep good filters in the boat and keep them changed. The only thing that I have seen on the F250 was an oil purge problem on a few units. This was cured adding a rerouted crankcase breather line.

150aintenuff
12-29-2005, 02:07 PM
ok now for a logistics question who will be assembling thes boat/motor packages????

alaskaops
12-29-2005, 08:43 PM
We have been using a Yamaha dealer in Petersburg, Alaska and have very pleased with his "service after the sale". Most dealers in the state want to make the sale and then never want to hear from the customer again (unless its time to buy another engine), he also stocks a large number of parts for Yamaha which is great, however when we need parts we have to fly a seaplane for 70 miles to get the parts or a Yamaha tech. NOTHING is easy in Alaska!

150aintenuff
12-29-2005, 11:53 PM
reason I ask is many people from "up north" ,because everything hasto be flown in, buy here in oregon at Portland Performance marine(northriver boats) and It was sounding like the normal story I hear about their service work, and if that was the case I would steer you in a different direction..