If you could build your own Merc...

[STV_Keith]

What concepts/features would you incorporate? I think it would be cool to list the items/features that could be added to improve on the Merc offering.

[kingsbiship]

I would make the crankcase have closer tollerances and be smaller to
raise pressure for better performance. I thought of adding JB Weld to
an engine once to do this but... I chickened out! A friend did it to a
dirt bike once and it worked good for about a week!

[freddyspens]

cool idea for a thread keith!


i want an actual tuned exhaust and the ability to change the power range with different expansion chamber pipes. i have a lot to learn about this but im interested in using a dual 3into1 system if it is possible to make power with this setup too, instead of the 6 individual pipes like i have seen..- although the buddy i just talked to about this sent me a pic of a motor with 2 3into1 pipes on it but thats all i know..

i just talked about this with a buddy and although i have not done any reaearch on it yet, im going to see what i can learn about it so at the very least i can learn more about it.. -sean


hey tony, wonder if we can get my buddy up here to weld in some filler?? hes an absolute artist of a welder and is welding up props and lowers everytime i stop by his shop, what do ya think?? ya better just get up here and at least see the new shop buddy! later--sean

[PanRonnie]

bosch direkt fuel injection
as to get away with that part rich orbital system of mercury
titanium rods to turn it at 10.000 rpm all day
900 euro a piece from pankl at a production of 6
might ask them to do the pistons aswell
plenty of idea's but no money :rolleyes:

[1BadAction]

Bosch DFI components on an opti, ECU tuning program, billet rotating assembly and forged mahle pistons.

[RBT]

How about a billet crank case, with removable jugs, and servo operated dial a dome heads, 3 into 1 exhaust. Billet crank.
Billet rods are already avaliable.

Don't laugh....... it is in the works.

[CDave]

Just put clyinder heads with exht. valves and a belt driven cam. Leave the intake side cylinder ported then ya can do alot more with the engine.

[RBT]

OH I forgot the jugs are from a sled........ with power valves. Really simple, they use exhaust pressure to open them...... a la bombardier.

RT

[sosmerc]

Replicate the old tower of power, but with a lost-foam block......no more side covers, or exhaust covers or divider plates. Use v-block reed arrangement and put a fuel injector in front of each block. Use a battery ignition and PCU-type adjustable engine management system. No oil injection. Keep it as simple under the hood as possible. Keep it under 350 lbs.

[OntarioStreamin]

.....it wouldn't work :D

[Ted Stryker]

I called Crower Cams one time about duplicating the rotating assembly in a 2.5 Mercury... The cost was a deterrant... :)

[Mark75H]

im interested in using a dual 3into1 system if it is possible to make power with this setup too

Sean, 3 into 1 tuning works very well and your Merc already has it :)

[Mark75H]

I would make the crankcase have closer tollerances and be smaller to raise pressure for better performance.

Motors that are absolutely sloppy open inside will benefit from tightening the crankcase, but few modern motors have been made that loose. Racers have been trying to gain benefit from this for years on Mercs from the original twins up to the V's .... none have proven it helps on a Merc. Carl K tightened it up enough for you at the factory.

As far as tightening the crankcase to make more power ... what you are doing is making the piston & crankcase a stronger pump ..... a stronger pump takes more power to operate .... once you get to a certain point in crankcase pumping power & effiency you pass a point of diminishing return ... the motor's power output increase is cancelled out by increase in power consumed by the pumping process.

[Raceman]

Replicate the old tower of power, but with a lost-foam block......no more side covers, or exhaust covers or divider plates. Use v-block reed arrangement and put a fuel injector in front of each block. Use a battery ignition and PCU-type adjustable engine management system. No oil injection. Keep it as simple under the hood as possible. Keep it under 350 lbs.

What he said, PLUS, make it a looper with removable head. I'd prefer to stay with a removable exhaust cover, but just a redesigned one that's not troublesome.

[freddyspens]

Sean, 3 into 1 tuning works very well and your Merc already has it :)

well yes, it does have a 3into1 of course, BUT it robs a lot of power compared to an actual tuned exhaust...
i am thinking about tuned, expansion chamber pipes, and not the sharp 90degree turn the exhaust has to make down among the other tight turns to get through the exhaust plate and out the tuner..

lots of good ideas here and i guess if i win the lottery i can give some of them a try :p im hoping to get to work and start fabricating when i get my milling machine, although i think it might be a couple more monthes since im getting a dyno next week :cool:

happy holidays everyone-- sean

[RBT]

freddyspens, I like your thinking.

The 3 into 1 tuned might work ( at least a hell of a lot better than six singles ), because of the added torque, add power valves and even slide the pipe and water inject it. I see no reason that a 2.5 could not easily eclipse 400hp.

RT

[freddyspens]

freddyspens, I like your thinking.

The 3 into 1 tuned might work ( at least a hell of a lot better than six singles ), because of the added torque, add power valves and even slide the pipe and water inject it. I see no reason that a 2.5 could not easily eclipse 400hp.

RT

thanks rbt, and that is pretty much it right there in a nut shell.. of course depending on intended, use different pipes for different folks.. im just taking my motorcycle and snowmobile 2stroke experiences and hoping to bring something better to the engines i have been building and running, i dont think i have loved building any engines more then these mercs, they really are a lot of fun to me-- especially when i try em out and hear that v6 scream! -sean

[HighVelocity]

How a bout a V8 outboard that is about 2.7 liters, aluminum block, with iron sleeves that revs to 14,000 rpm without missing a beat. Further using Formula One technology, to operate the valve train and adding a turbo for even greater top end ability. It's scary to think what two companes like Mercury and Ferarri or BMW could come up with, using a nitrogen based pneumatic valve train.


Just a thought, Ed

[Dave S]

When ya said V8 I thought ya were going to say OMC..... :D Ya hear that DeRick..... :D I think More power = broken parts...... :D How about hoppin up a 3.4... ya don't have to bore or stroke it.......just grind away what ya don't like and call it a DUCK. :rolleyes: Yeha duck those parts flying out. Happy new year all. :D

[HighVelocity]

Dave S, is there any chance your from Alabama?

I was just speaking hypothetically, but it seems like a smaller V8 like a 2.7 developed by merc etc, may be the way to go. Remember if your crank is balanced down to less than a quarter of gram, it shouldn't matter how fast you spin it.

No parts a flyin, no yehaas. Sorry.

If you like to the see how the most advanced motors in the world work, check out Formula One. That is some amazing stuff.

19,000 RPMs with NO, I said it, NO HEAD GASKETS
3.0 liter V10---880 HP

Have a good one.

[Dave S]

From Ny.... but live in Va. :) There are some motors making Hp but how heavy and costly. We be poor boaters that haveta buy gas. :rolleyes: I was working on a Hemi 20 years ago that was giving me fits, and I thought of putting reeds in the intake tract to help with too much cam . Then I started thinking of a 2 stroke motor thats way beyond anything anyone would ever consider. No heads, port timing that allows a blower with no gas going out of the exhaust. Exhaust ports that open than close before the intake is closed so you can boost the charge in the chamber. Port timing that can be varied. Piston dwell that can be changed to better use the flame front. OK I told ya what it can do, you can tell me if you can figgure out HOW. One hint, very simple. :)

[HighVelocity]

Well, if you were working on a hemi, I thought it might have an 01 on the side and say Charger on the back. just kidin


The design you are describing sounds like a rotax type motor, which has rotary valve setup but is still considered by most as a two stroke.

A turbo charger is the best way to add pressure to exhaust ports, and with the use of a waste gate, you can dial up any amout of trouble your looking for.

As for supercharging 2 strokes, were not there yet.

Variable valve timing is done by_____________. and you fill in the blank.

More Trivia--Has a corvette ever had a overhead cam motor under the hood?

[steve]

billet cranks available in stock and stroked. $2500 each or a little better and they are much stronger then stock cast cranks. Also better consistancy and balance. They will be available in spring. How many orders can I fill..............

[The Big Al]

60 degree V-8, 4 valves per cycl all aluminum and carbon fiber. 3.5 litre.

dual cams per head. Direct fuel injection. turbo. intercooled.
This could make 500hp. and could be under 500lbs.

This would be the beast!

[1BadAction]

nother cool powerplant would be a big I-4 2 stroke. something like 4.125" bore and 3.75" stroke :eek:

[CDave]

60 degree V-8, 4 valves per cycl all aluminum and carbon fiber. 3.5 litre.

dual cams per head. Direct fuel injection. turbo. intercooled.
This could make 500hp. and could be under 500lbs.

This would be the beast!

IRL Aurora engine 700HP (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IRL-Aurora-V8-Indy-Car-Engine_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQitemZ4538206889QQtcZphoto) and no turbo.

http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/b4/09/5f_2.JPG

[Dave S]

NO cly heads......none.

[espen]

My vision is like this ;-) : merc 260 with exhaust valve thats made of 2 tubes going in one and controlled separatly to make it able to lower the exhaust port and run 3into 1 system at low rpm and change to high port and expansion cambers at say 5000rpms. High pressure fuel injection into the heads and using the oem injectors for oil . Motec ecu could controll it all.

Other is to make a billet block for using all merc internals and accessories but no cylinders just flat and prepaired for using pwc or snow mobile 2 strokes loose cylinders,maybe with special heads for all 3 cylinders just to make the block stiffer.
Just like the Suzuki v6 is made.

Espen

[Hot Shot Merc]

I would put those superduper OMC 9000+rpm rings that last five years and over 100 hrs that dont need replaced in one :eek: ;)

[1BadAction]

I would put those superduper OMC 9000+rpm rings that last five years and over 100 hrs that dont need replaced in one :eek: ;)

ohhh sh1t :eek: i see your smack machine is in full swing. :D lmfao.

[Hot Shot Merc]

I'm bored can ya tell? :D

[HighVelocity]

There has been talks in F1 racing of going from a 3.0 liter V-10 to
a 2.4 liter V-8, now it's here. 2.4 is a very familiar # in mercury's history

If you have ever seen a F1 motor, you know it looks like you could put it in your suit case. I can only imagine how muh power there going to squeeze out of a 2.4 V8. I bet it's still somewhere in the 800's like the V10's. I hope the outboard world uses some of this technology in the future.
just a thought

[CDave]

Not sure on the HP but they are reportedly spinning them 20,000RPM's. Lap times seem to be down 2sec. a lap in pre season testing but ya can bet your bottom dollar that number will get smaller.

Also more big rules changes are in store in the next few years. They're gonna limit them to 19,000RPM in 07 or 08. F1 is pushing to get cost under control. They say a mid pack team is spending 300 million a year and the big 4 are around 500-700 million.

[HighVelocity]

They have to get costs under control to keep it competitive. Fernando Alonso won the championship, and look, in 07 he is going from Renault(who believed in him and helped him get to the top)to Mercedes/McClaren. It's all about the green backs $$$$$.

I think/hope the benefits of all this high dollar research and development on the 2.4 V8 may, at some point, trickle down into other motors.

I think it sucks they would try to limit them at 19,000rpm, hell let's find out the limit they can take it to, right?

[kingsbiship]

I think the first 'vettes had a 6 cyl. with OHC.... didn't they?

[blkmtrfan]

I think the first 'vettes had a 6 cyl. with OHC.... didn't they?

Naw, the blue flame six was a typical pushrod chevy but id did have 3 carbs ;)

However, the hot vette in the early 90's had the dual overhead cam V8 built by merc :cool:

[HighVelocity]

And that hot corvette was.............The ZR1 A 405 HP Dual Overhead Cam motor made by the Mercury divison of FORD. Imagine that. That was the only time a OHC motor was used, they still use pushrod motors, the heads are much smaller.

[1BadAction]

.The ZR1 A 405 HP Dual Overhead Cam motor made by the Mercury divison of FORD

ROFLMMFAO that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. ZR-1 FAQ (http://zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_faq.htm#66)


QUESTION: I heard that the LT5 wasn't built by GM?

ANS: Correct, GM, because of small volume of LT5 engines, went outside GM to find someone to build the LT5. They chose Mercury Marine because of their reputation in building aluminum engines.



BTW, an LT5 will STOMP any of the N/A OHC ferd motors.

[steve]

You are remembering the OHC Pontiac six . Came out around 1967 or so.

[kingsbiship]

"You are remembering the OHC Pontiac six . Came out around 1967 or so."
Yes... Thats it! Thanks for straightening me out! I was close!

[CDave]

BTW, an LT5 will STOMP any of the N/A OHC ferd motors.

Ya sure about that Sparky?

Oh yeah, Ford has had OHC engines that won a "few" F1 and Indy car races too. ;) How may F1 wins does GM have???? How many overall 24hr of LeMans wins does GM have??? How many Manufacturers World Championships does GM have???


This one was built in the 60's.

427 SOHC
Factory ratings were 615 hp @ 7000 rpm with a single 4-barrel, and 657 hp @ 7500 with dual carburetors.

http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/images/427sohc-hm.jpg

[HighVelocity]

I hope this doesn't turn into a Ford vs.Chevy thing. I would hate to get that fight going.HEE HEE HEE.

[1BadAction]

http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/images/427sohc-hm.jpg

I knew someone was going to pull that motor out of their ass. too bad the cammer wasnt a production engine.

how did that work? you could get the cammer in a Boss mustang if your firstborn worked at ford and gave his arm and leg? :D:D

[HighVelocity]

Nascar wasn't too happy with that motor.


They made it go away in a hurry, I guess they weren't ready for that.

Hmmm, wait, does Nascar still use pushrod motors. I think they do.

[CDave]

I knew someone was going to pull that motor out of their ass. too bad the cammer wasnt a production engine.

how did that work? you could get the cammer in a Boss mustang if your firstborn worked at ford and gave his arm and leg? :D:D

Waaa, waaaa, waaa. It spanks your beloved LT5 engine so ya gotta cry???? :D Didn't you say ANY N/A OHC Ford engine???? :p

And what's with the N/A engines?? Scared of a supercharged PRODUCTION 5.4?

FYI sparky, GM, Ford and Chrysler are all more than capable of producing world class engines. What is boils down to is $$$$$, i.e. profit. Ford took an already existing engine family and supercharged it to make HP's. GM went another route, they bored and stroked an already avalible engine family.

So what, big deal, quit being a fan boy and open your eyes to the wonderful world of what all the car companies offer.


Now back to custom Mercs. I still say put exhaust valves on it and SUPERCHARGE it. :D

[HighVelocity]

Right, let's get back to merc's. I want a 2.5 V8 because I think they could get more torque out of it, and still preserve the RPMs. I would like to put some people and gear(cooler of be-soda) without losing 5-8 mph. Plus my 3.0 is 40 pounds heavier than a 2.5, so why can't I have the best of both worlds???

[CDave]

Also add a 180deg. crank and balance shaft.

[Tbone]

Anyone ever added or heard of adding a boost bottle to a V6 outboard?
http://eindiancompanies.com/images/resonator.htm

[steve]

only works for carb motors and it would work. You'd have to do a lot of testing to see what size bottle and find room under the cowel.

[Tbone]

bottle should be same size as the cc's of motor? whats a 2.5 merc in cc?

This guy sells these on ebay for $45 for the gopeds is what gave me the idea, so i looked up a formula and i think i made the same thing he sells?

[Mark75H]

bottle should be same size as the cc's of motor? whats a 2.5 merc in cc?

This guy sells these on ebay for $45 for the gopeds is what gave me the idea, so i looked up a formula and i think i made the same thing he sells?

2500cc .... that's what 2.5 means ... 2.5 thousand cc's ;) Works out to 0.66043013 gallon

Those bottles in the pictures would be monsterously oversized for those 49cc motors. The hose is probably 15cc's alone

[kingsbiship]

He's rite!

[jay1]

Im New To The Outboard Thing.. Ive Been Trying To Make Power Out Of A Old Bridgeport Carbed...and The Whole Exhaust Thing ....just About Every 2 Stroke Bike Sled Or Quad Benifits From A Tuned Exhaust (expansion Chamber) Why Cant Somone Design A Mid To Do Just That...or Has It Been Done?? Also Has Anyone Ever Done Anything As Far As The Exhaust Plate And Devider..i Seem To Remember Omc V4's Gaining Somthing From The Bubble Back Setup..wouldent That Work On A Merc ..instead Of Cutting The Chest???? AND AS FAR AS A TUNED OR TUNEABLE EXHAUST. ISENT THIS ACHEVED FROM THE STINGER LENGTH INTO THE EXPANTION AND NOT WHERE IT DUMPS IN ...THE WHOLE TUNER THING HAS ME BAFFELED...LITTERLY...