Hot Singles ! - Pictures

[jackie wilson]

[QUOTE=mark benson;2333322]Jackie- The article on the 1970 Paris 6 Hour, in Powerboat Mag. was written by none other than Charlie Strang! Renato did not lie about not being passed, while out on the course! What you guys didn't realise, is that while you were in the pits fueling & changing drivers, Sanders/ Posey, were out on the course turning laps at the rate of one every 3 or 4 minutes! Jackie, you don't seem very good at math! Sanders drove hour 1 & 2, Posey drove hour 3 & 4 & Johnny drove the last 2 hours, for 2 pit stops! The article also said, they were 2 laps up at the finish, (not 3 like you exagerated to)! So they passed you twice (once each time you were in the pits ( again not 5 times, like you exagerated once again!) I'm a reasercher, I deal with facts, not conjecture & rumor![

Hello Mr Wonderful "RESEARCHER", You don't think that the reporter being head honcho of OMC Who no doubt was there as official race reporter for the Powerboat magazine had anything to do with the lopsided report do you???? NO OF COURSE NOT.
While Posey and Sanders were piling on the laps while we made 2 pit stops, do you think we stopped AND ORDERED A BURGER WITH FRIES AND A SIDE OF ONION RINGS and waited for them to come out during their two pit stops DUHHHHH--I don't think so. Garbrecht had made the refueling stops the slickest in the business ----there was no way on Gods earth that OMC could match the Mercury team, so you can forget that. But i forget-----you are a researcher and only deal in facts----you have the film and don't deal in rumour and conjecture. Let me give it to you straight researcher-------OMC film-------OMC---boss man as ace reporter----totally unbiased of course as only an OMC director can be Son of Mrs OMC herself Anne Strang. One slight difference here Benny ----You take up the story 40+ years on-------------ME i just happened to be there taking part Saw the scoreboard [in the pits in Paris] which said we were 3 laps down, but you read it in the comics as 2 laps---so i must once again bow to your superior wisdom and fact finding faculties, pure genius Benny.
Just a last little remark-------THERE 'AIN'T A DAMN THING WRONG WITH MY MATHS------NEVER WAS !!!!!!

[mark benson]

Jackie- I just talked to Willabe. He has the footage, not me! He just reviewed it once again & he says it shows Renato being passed by Sanders, way over on the left side, in major traffick (remember the barges & sight seeing boats!) in hour 2! He says there would be no way for him to see that & he also has footage of you being passed, by Posey, during your 2 hour stint in the cockpit, again way over at the left, while you were in major traffick, he says there is no way you could have seen that, either! So, it comes down to, why would Bill Welch, Manager of Mercury High Performance say you each were passed once, (not 3 times like you suggested), when he was the one on the stop watch & click board, the whole race plus shot the footage of you two being passed! Could all the scorers, all the reporters, all the TV cameras & hundreds of thousands of people in attendance at the race, all be wrong & you & Renato, really did win? Answer me that? Benny the Blogger
[QUOTE=mark benson;2333322]Jackie- The article on the 1970 Paris 6 Hour, in Powerboat Mag. was written by none other than Charlie Strang! Renato did not lie about not being passed, while out on the course! What you guys didn't realise, is that while you were in the pits fueling & changing drivers, Sanders/ Posey, were out on the course turning laps at the rate of one every 3 or 4 minutes! Jackie, you don't seem very good at math! Sanders drove hour 1 & 2, Posey drove hour 3 & 4 & Johnny drove the last 2 hours, for 2 pit stops! The article also said, they were 2 laps up at the finish, (not 3 like you exagerated to)! So they passed you twice (once each time you were in the pits ( again not 5 times, like you exagerated once again!) I'm a reasercher, I deal with facts, not conjecture & rumor![

Hello Mr Wonderful "RESEARCHER", You don't think that the reporter being head honcho of OMC Who no doubt was there as official race reporter for the Powerboat magazine had anything to do with the lopsided report do you???? NO OF COURSE NOT.
While Posey and Sanders were piling on the laps while we made 2 pit stops, do you think we stopped AND ORDERED A BURGER WITH FRIES AND A SIDE OF ONION RINGS and waited for them to come out during their two pit stops DUHHHHH--I don't think so. Garbrecht had made the refueling stops the slickest in the business ----there was no way on Gods earth that OMC could match the Mercury team, so you can forget that. But i forget-----you are a researcher and only deal in facts----you have the film and don't deal in rumour and conjecture. Let me give it to you straight researcher-------OMC film-------OMC---boss man as ace reporter----totally unbiased of course as only an OMC director can be Son of Mrs OMC herself Anne Strang. One slight difference here Benny ----You take up the story 40+ years on-------------ME i just happened to be there taking part Saw the scoreboard [in the pits in Paris] which said we were 3 laps down, but you read it in the comics as 2 laps---so i must once again bow to your superior wisdom and fact finding faculties, pure genius Benny.
Just a last little remark-------THERE 'AIN'T A DAMN THING WRONG WITH MY MATHS------NEVER WAS !!!!!!

[willabee]

[QUOTE=mark benson;2333400]Jackie- I just talked to Willabe. He has the footage, not me! He just reviewed it once again & he says it shows Renato being passed by Sanders, way over on the left side, in major traffick (remember the barges & sight seeing boats!) in hour 2! He says there would be no way for him to see that & he also has footage of you being passed, by Posey, during your 2 hour stint in the cockpit, again way over at the left, while you were in major traffick, he says there is no way you could have seen that, either! ....plus shot the footage of you two being passed! .....[QUOTE]

That's not what I said Mark. If you're going to quote me, then please do it accurately. What I said to you was this, exactly.....

I think you have a little misunderstanding of how the race went. The Molinari/Wilson entry appeared to be the class of the field. It ran flawlessly all day long, just flying over the course. That it finished two laps down to the Sanders/Posey rig seemed almost impossible. At the time, no one could figure out when and where the alledged passes happened! Both Merc drivers swore that they were never passed. It was years later when I was watching a Merc film that I saw Sanders motor on past Renato on the front stretch during the second hour. He was way off to Renato's left side and I'd guess Renato didn't even see him. Apparently, sometime during the third or fourth hours, Posey managed to get past Wilson. I didn't see it, but the official results were two laps down. The DeBoom rig never threatened to catch Molinari/Wilson, but did manage to sneak past Pruett/Berghauer.

[willabee]

Mert, Kubes, and Foxy are all long gone, just me left out of the many----i do believe we were heard of again!!!!!!!!!!!.......Lordy-Lordy,-Lordy

When you let your buddy Benny get you all fired up, you interpret the written word as badly as he does. I said that a herd of cowbells raced at Havasu in 1970 and were never heard from again. I'm talking about the engines, the engines my dear boy, not the people! :nonod:

BTW, welcome back :thumbsup:

[mark benson]

Oh, thank God you are here to step in & referee, between me & Jackie Wilson! Sorry about the "Editorial Flamboyance" to do with me not quoting you quite accurrately, but I was just trying to be easy on the "old codger from Great Britain", who is always sticking his nose in other peoples affairs, telling them the way things were in the olden days & doesn't have the world's best memory, but thinks it improves over 1/2 a bottle of port! He's threatening to come all the way out here in the sticks, in Western Canada, with all our dog sleds & igloos & punch me right in the nose!
[QUOTE=mark benson;2333400]Jackie- I just talked to Willabe. He has the footage, not me! He just reviewed it once again & he says it shows Renato being passed by Sanders, way over on the left side, in major traffick (remember the barges & sight seeing boats!) in hour 2! He says there would be no way for him to see that & he also has footage of you being passed, by Posey, during your 2 hour stint in the cockpit, again way over at the left, while you were in major traffick, he says there is no way you could have seen that, either! ....plus shot the footage of you two being passed! .....[QUOTE]

That's not what I said Mark. If you're going to quote me, then please do it accurately. What I said to you was this, exactly.....

I think you have a little misunderstanding of how the race went. The Molinari/Wilson entry appeared to be the class of the field. It ran flawlessly all day long, just flying over the course. That it finished two laps down to the Sanders/Posey rig seemed almost impossible. At the time, no one could figure out when and where the alledged passes happened! Both Merc drivers swore that they were never passed. It was years later when I was watching a Merc film that I saw Sanders motor on past Renato on the front stretch during the second hour. He was way off to Renato's left side and I'd guess Renato didn't even see him. Apparently, sometime during the third or fourth hours, Posey managed to get past Wilson. I didn't see it, but the official results were two laps down. The DeBoom rig never threatened to catch Molinari/Wilson, but did manage to sneak past Pruett/Berghauer.

[jackie wilson]

[QUOTE=mark benson;2333436]Oh, thank God you are here to step in & referee, between me & Jackie Wilson! Sorry about the "Editorial Flamboyance" to do with me not quoting you quite accurrately, but I was just trying to be easy on the "old codger from Great Britain", who is always sticking his nose in other peoples affairs, telling them the way things were in the olden days & doesn't have the world's best memory, but thinks it improves over 1/2 a bottle of port! He's threatening to come all the way out here in the sticks, in Western Canada, with all our dog sleds & igloos & punch me right in the nose![QUOTE=willabee;2333414][QUOTE=mark benson;2333400]Jackie- I just talked to Willabe. He has the footage, not me! He just reviewed it once again & he says it shows Renato being passed by Sanders, way over on the left side, in major traffick (remember the barges & sight seeing boats!) in hour 2! He says there would be no way for him to see that & he also has footage of you being passed, by Posey, during your 2 hour stint in the cockpit, again way over at the left, while you were in major traffick, he says there is no way you could have seen that, either! ....plus shot the footage of you two being passed! .....[/QUOT Benny boy, i do wish you would make up your mind, one minute you say nobody passed me-----next page i was passed ,but i wouldn;t have known-------do you really believe that 2 boats evenly matched would not notice if one passed the other------do you think one could make a pass and piss off into the long distance without it being known----hells teeth Benny give me a little credit. Have you ever been IN a race ???? 'cos if you had you would know that it could not happen that way.
Posey was on my tail for 2 hours and i can tell you, thats where he was when i came into the pits.
Amazing where these phantom passes took place.
So while Willa was doing the timekeeping he was taking movies of the race-----Boy does that man have talent---eat your heart out Speilberg.
Just where did i ever say i was gonna punch you on the nose-----i may shoot you 4 times in the crutch and i'd be sure to hit your brains, but I was never a violent man.

Enough of all that jazz Benny it's near midnight and i have a plane to catch to Calgary in the morning ,so this is the last memo for a month, see ya next week. JRW

[seeroy]

Oh how I would love to be a fly on the wall in Vancouver next week. - Seeroy :eek:

[mark benson]

What have I done! Awakened a sleeping giant bear? T2X says I need ear plugs & a suit of Armour! This guy Wilson isn't psychotic or anything like that, is he? Willabe is too far away, to help protect me! I better dig out my hockey helmet/cage & jock strap! Do you think I can distract him by showing him an 1100 Stacker, 1250 BP Stacker 1350 Stacker, Red Twister, Blue Twister, T-2, T2X, T-3 & a couple of Stranglers, Stingers & Chrysler Stackers, for good measure? Help!
Oh how I would love to be a fly on the wall in Vancouver next week. - Seeroy :eek:

[jackie wilson]

Was up early this morning, so i switched o to S&F and had a looksee at what our Colonial crusader was spouting off about and see if there was any common sense coming out of the province. The answer is -----not a lot. !!!!!!!!
Had a look through the back pages and was surprised he thought i was sticking my nose in where it did not concern me----
Thought even Benny would concede that a report in the faultless and unbiased reporting of Powerboat magazine [which just happened to be owned by Bob Nordskog, lifelong OMC devotee and driver for same outfit] By the President of said company OMC, may be just a tad lopsided----nah----course not. It does not concern me does it Benny ???? What right does anyone have to question the Holy Grail--------Powerboat magazine !!!!!!!! no less. It was in black and white----so that makes it gospel. Just ask Benny ---'cos he only deals in facts and nothing but the facts---God help us all. So three cheers for Benny, pat his head and give him a biscuit----------- Put on your armour and your cover your helmet with a jock strap if you like but you should not ever believe the 'Learned One', i am not a dog, but a gentle pussy cat who just does not liked being pissed on from a dizzy height by born again historians and ace crusading wannabee reporters who could never get their "Just the Facts Maam' bit right in the first place.
Hey benny WHAT'S a PSYCHOTIC????? we don't have them over here, must be a "provincial" thing i guess.
Looking forward to seeing your collection of motors.

[jackie wilson]

Oh how I would love to be a fly on the wall in Vancouver next week. - Seeroy :eek:

AW C"mon Stavros-----have you ever known me be anything but nice ?????? even to the Colonials, miss you lots, J.

[mark benson]

Jackie- First off, British Columbia, Canada, is part of the sovereign country of Great Britain, so I'm on your side! Nick was talking about interviewing a new narrator, for our new productions, from the Nordskog footage, we have aquired! But, the problem is, if somebody is to replace me as narrator, then they can't be bias, towards Mercury! (which I am not having raced both!) like numerous members are, on this site!I think your greatest, "claim to fame", is when you, "had your falling out", with the Molinari's, & found a new partner, for Berlin 6 Hour! Renato Molinari's next co-driver was none other than, Bob Herring! Herring/ Molinari, went on to win Parker 7 Hour Enduro in 1975 with a new V-6 Mercury (Evinrude/ Johnson, also had new v-6's!) & in 1977, when they again won Parker 7 Hour, with an OMC V-8!
Was up early this morning, so i switched o to S&F and had a looksee at what our Colonial crusader was spouting off about and see if there was any common sense coming out of the province. The answer is -----not a lot. !!!!!!!!
Had a look through the back pages and was surprised he thought i was sticking my nose in where it did not concern me----
Thought even Benny would concede that a report in the faultless and unbiased reporting of Powerboat magazine [which just happened to be owned by Bob Nordskog, lifelong OMC devotee and driver for same outfit] By the President of said company OMC, may be just a tad lopsided----nah----course not. It does not concern me does it Benny ???? What right does anyone have to question the Holy Grail--------Powerboat magazine !!!!!!!! no less. It was in black and white----so that makes it gospel. Just ask Benny ---'cos he only deals in facts and nothing but the facts---God help us all. So three cheers for Benny, pat his head and give him a biscuit----------- Put on your armour and your cover your helmet with a jock strap if you like but you should not ever believe the 'Learned One', i am not a dog, but a gentle pussy cat who just does not liked being pissed on from a dizzy height by born again historians and ace crusading wannabee reporters who could never get their "Just the Facts Maam' bit right in the first place.
Hey benny WHAT'S a PSYCHOTIC????? we don't have them over here, must be a "provincial" thing i guess.
Looking forward to seeing your collection of motors.

[seeroy]

AW C"mon Stavros-----have you ever known me be anything but nice ?????? even to the Colonials, miss you lots, J.

Dear "Warm and Cuddley" - What I meant to imply was, "as a fly on the wall", what I would expect to see, is the same reaction as when you met Rotary John. :D - PBS (Some day I will tell you what that stands for)

[T2x]

So.....as we return to our story..... The "Master" is about to visit the "Great Debater".......What will the outcome be?......

hmmmmm.....master versus debater.......master--debater........master and debater.....a merger..

What shall we call the result....?

Hmmmmm

How about.....?

Wait for it.......

Master.......


Bater



(Baroomp boomp)

Mark...you are in way over your head here...

Good luck

T2x

[willabee]

...... I don't think that even the powers of Willabee can help you now.

Rest In Peace, "Benny"

Nope, not this time. That there Canadian has opened his mouth, inserted his foot and has asked for the big time trouble that is now heading in his direction!

'Benny' may choose to call it "editorial flamboyance", but he didn't stick to the facts as they were presented. That put me in a place I didn't want to be and I didn't even have a horse in this race. Yep, the lad put himself in this predicament all right, let's see if he can get himself out. :eek:

Note to the guy that came up with the master/debater thing ..... you have way too much free time, get a hobby! :D

[seeroy]

Mark - I have to agree with Rich, Bob and Bill.
Close mouth and open ears, and you might live to see the next day.
There is an old saying, "When (verbal) rape is imminent, relax and enjoy it". :o
Truth be told, you might actually learn something!

- Seeroy

[T2x]

Note to the guy that came up with the master/debater thing ..... you have way too much free time, get a hobby! :D

I used to have one...........



256872

[mark benson]

Dear Screamandfly Members- As we speak, that cantankerous old bastard from Great Britain, is sipping his British tea, on the world famous "Rocky Mountaineer Train", seeing the sites of the Rocky Mountains, on his way from Calgary,Alberta, to Vancouver, British Columbia, without a care on his mind! I mean while, am in disguise as a woman, (hey this is pretty kinky, "Walkin' 'Round in Woman's Underwear!") There are helicopters overhead & police presence everywhere! They took my computers, that had the only shred of evidence, that Jackie & Renato, were indeed passed by Sanders/ Posey, at Paris, in 1970! I am sending this message on my Blackberry phone, so if anything bad happens to me (at the hands of that Jacko) please tell my Mom, that I love her! His train arrives at 7PM & I am going to stay in disguise & secretly stalk the crotchety old fart, so the hunter, becomes the hunted!
Breaking News - AP Wire Service

An International man hunt is underway as Immigration officials, US and Canadian Border Patrol Police and agents from Homeland Security are actively pursuing a man, disguised as a woman, whom has illegally crossed into the US from Canada in what witnesses are calling "a crazed state of mind." Reportedly, several witnesses have stated that the distraught man was yelling uncontrollably that "he is Benny" and that "JW is coming to get him while looking up into the sky. When one witness asked the hysterical man who "JW" was and he responded with "the man from across the pond." Witnesses say that the man appears to be in a highly psychotic and delusional state. Witnesses said that as the man ran into the woods he asked which way it was to Ohio because he had to get to Ohio to find Willabee. Authorities have cordoned off the ten square mile wooded area that the man was last seen entering in hopes of apprehending the man before he does any harm to himself or innocent bystanders. There are several helicopters assisting authorities on the ground. Authorities have been able to track the origin of the crazed man to Gibsons, BC. They are now at his home and have confiscated his computer in an attempt to reveal who has this man in such a distraught state of mind.
More news as it becomes available.

[Rotary John]

Benny: give the old fart a kick in the A** for me.

[mark benson]

Dear Mr. Rotary- Can you give me any advise, as to how to deal with this delusional man from England, that keeps insisting he & Renato Molinari won the 1970 Paris 6 Hour Grand Prix, despite overwhelming evidence, to the contrary! I'm feeling like I am involved in the Assasination of President Kennedy, in Dallas, in the '60's, where the authorities say a lone gunman, but I know better & feel my like my life is in jeprody, do to my 1st hand knowledge! My co-conspititor is a contact I know, only as Willabe & apparently, he is from Ohio, but that is all I know? Didn't you get into some kind of a situation, years back, where this Wilson character, was questioning your motivation, as to the History of the OMC Rotary Engine? Any advise as to how to deal with this lunatic, would be greatly appreciated!
Benny: give the old fart a kick in the A** for me.

[Intrepid]

Dear Mr. Rotary- Can you give me any advise, as to how to deal with this delusional man from England, that keeps insisting he & Renato Molinari won the 1970 Paris 6 Hour Grand Prix, despite overwhelming evidence, to the contrary! I'm feeling like I am involved in the Assasination of President Kennedy, in Dallas, in the '60's, where the authorities say a lone gunman, but I know better & feel my like my life is in jeprody, do to my 1st hand knowledge! My co-conspititor is a contact I know, only as Willabe & apparently, he is from Ohio, but that is all I know? Didn't you get into some kind of a situation, years back, where this Wilson character, was questioning your motivation, as to the History of the OMC Rotary Engine? Any advise as to how to deal with this lunatic, would be greatly appreciated!

Benny----------------you do talk such a load of twaddle----you should be locked up in the toilet.
I have never questioned Rotery;s motivation------all i said was ---nobody ever made a profit out of the wankel and until pigs fly, they never will

[Intrepid]

Well' Benedict!!!!champion exponant of the written word and OMC crusader who deals only in facts and nothing but the facts and has nothing to do with doubt and conjecture and dresses in female attire to dodge current issues like "where the hell are you hiding" dingleberry????????????
Put out an APB last night and the Mounties had all exits covered---but sent me an email which said----------OH HIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM You have to be kidding----now they don't even answer the phone. You can run ---but you can;t hide Benny, It's doughnuts at sunset and the last man standing has most fun---Get off your rear and over here unless you got a terminal dose of "SCAREDICATITUS"------------------The one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Intrepid]

By the bye----------------i;'m using Nicks puter so nobody will recognise me

[mark benson]

Jackie- That was very diabolical of you, to use this Intrepid Junior Member alias, disguising yourself, to track me down, to actually meet this Canadian Guy, that Blogs about "Factory Outboard Racing history, from the '70's, Researcher, that has been a pain in the ass, these last few years, on Screamandfly! Well, tomorrow we should watch " 1970 Bruge Testing & you can set the stage for the big '70 Paris 6 Hour Grand Prix footage!
By the bye----------------i;'m using Nicks puter so nobody will recognise me

[Intrepid]

The Eagle has landed and taken over the compound - ie: Jackie will be seeing Beny the Bean soon and SPARKS MAY FLY! Forget the pig reference from earlier... nothing like a face to face discussion especially with 2 professional speakers - film at 11
http://youtu.be/lcU8THp9qFM By The Way: As evidence of Jackie being in British Columbia Canada here is a new video clip of Jackie visiting a local collection of vintage outboard motors -

[mark benson]

I am just leaving to go meet that cantankerous old fossil, from Great Britain! Willabe- If anything should happen to me, please continue my quest, to keep these guys honest & not let them exaggerate speeds & horsepower, too much! I will enter the fray, with a peace offering of a bottle of Canadian Club, in hopes of loosening the old coot up, before the subject of 1970 Paris 6 Hour Grand Prix, comes up! May the Tunnel Boat Racing Gods, watch over me!
The Eagle has landed and taken over the compound - ie: Jackie will be seeing Beny the Bean soon and SPARKS MAY FLY! Forget the pig reference from earlier... nothing like a face to face discussion especially with 2 professional speakers - film at 11
http://youtu.be/lcU8THp9qFM By The Way: As evidence of Jackie being in British Columbia Canada here is a new video clip of Jackie visiting a local collection of vintage outboard motors -

[JP Love]

Wow is a serious collection...... Thank's sharing a piece of history... J-P :thumbsup:

[Rotary John]

Dear Mr. Rotary- Can you give me any advise, as to how to deal with this delusional man from England, that keeps insisting he & Renato Molinari won the 1970 Paris 6 Hour Grand Prix, despite overwhelming evidence, to the contrary! I'm feeling like I am involved in the Assasination of President Kennedy, in Dallas, in the '60's, where the authorities say a lone gunman, but I know better & feel my like my life is in jeprody, do to my 1st hand knowledge! My co-conspititor is a contact I know, only as Willabe & apparently, he is from Ohio, but that is all I know? Didn't you get into some kind of a situation, years back, where this Wilson character, was questioning your motivation, as to the History of the OMC Rotary Engine? Any advise as to how to deal with this lunatic, would be greatly appreciated!
The FACTS man the FACTS. I just asked him if he ever beat, let alone passed, a rotary in his KT - F1 car engine contraption.

[jackie wilson]

The FACTS man the FACTS. I just asked him if he ever beat, let alone passed, a rotary in his KT - F1 car engine contraption.
Fact is, i didn't show up with the dearly beloved Cosworth until 1978 by which time OMC in their wisdom had "binned" the badly flawed item aptly called "THE WANKEL"----------------They were dead and scrapped by the time i showed up------must have heard i was coming. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are we really going to go through all this crap again Johno ????

[STEVERINO]

Wrong again Stevo, Freddie was out of boatbuilding by then, Burgess had gone off on his own, he was tired of building boats for Shakey Bill and Freddie and decided he wanted to do it alone. Fred did not have a boat to put a T2 on,.
Finally Stevo, just for the record, Foxy was at least 5 years older than me. He was racing Suzuki works bikes when i was still in nappies. Went to Carr Mill racing circuit 2 weeks ago to watch International boat race Dac cats Mercury powered some with S2000 engines and 1 optimax 200.Back in 1968 when i held the lap record 125hp Mercury 28 inch quicksilver prop`58 second lap times`1 yr later 1250SBP Mercury lap times went down to 53 seconds todays lap times under 38 seconds.And to finish off i met non other than Mr Dave Burgess himself and asked him about Freddi Miles winning the 1973 Chasewater 500 miles with a T11X on a Milesmaster Picklefork Cat he told me Freddi and his wife went on holiday and he built the boat for when he returned as a suprise?

[BrianSmith]

We had 4 of them over the years. The first was similar to the one Fredi had at Havasu, the second was longer with the cockpit further back and "Kick-ups" on the rear decks that went past the engine. This one we ran at Johanasberg with a C6.
The third I think was likely the same as recently referred to here......very small with a narrow tunnel........gawd was it quick! This one could be the same or similar to what Bert Serra had for awhile and was sold to Fred Fincham to run SJ in Canada with the agreement that he wasn't to put an OMC on it!258039258040258041
The fourth and final, was a longer wider version but too much boat for a C6.

[C.G. 125]

988 and 588

Jock hornor drove 588 and I drove 988 one year for Cantec Racing in Peterborough..988 was a very fast hand full...

[peterse90]

Brian, I always thought you and Dick were the only Cantec drivers.

I don't think Bert Serra had anything to do with Fred Fincham, but in 1974 Fred Fincham drove a Lorne Pinel boat that looked exactly like the pickle-fork Miles you drove in 1973. Fred ran the boat in U class and blew it over in Picton.

[T2x]

Brian, I always thought you and Dick were the only Cantec drivers.

I don't think Bert Serra had anything to do with Fred Fincham, but in 1974 Fred Fincham drove a Lorne Pinel boat that looked exactly like the pickle-fork Miles you drove in 1973. Fred ran the boat in U class and blew it over in Picton.

I believe Freddy ran the Pinel in SJ rather than U class in 74.

I barrel rolled my S class Miles/T2x in Picton in '75.

[BrianSmith]

I have always wondered about what happened to the boats etc. and who ended up with them. It is news to me that someone ran the boats in Peterborough after we disbanded.
I am sorry I don't know who cg 125 is.........I believe Bert and Fred must've known each other as Bert came to Ontario a number of times and hung out with us and the Merc guys too. Everybody was pretty close back then and we all knew each other. I spent 2 hours on the phone with Bert earlier this week lying to each other about how fast we both were! I do recall Lorne Pinel running a boat like the small Miles...but I always thought it was the real one just painted. If someone knows how to contact Fred Fincham send my regards and ask him about it.
Somehow I have it in my mind that the larger (latest) Miles ended up in the states somewhere..............

[willabee]

...... It is news to me that someone ran the boats in Peterborough after we disbanded.
I am sorry I don't know who cg 125 is......... it.
..............

Hey "two left feet" , you do know who CG125 is ..... part of the company that put the Zonkercraft into the game.

[peterse90]

Hey "two left feet" , you do know who CG125 is ..... part of the company that put the Zonkercraft into the game.

I'm guessing CG 125 is Chick Gagen.
But I still do not remember anybody other than Dick Summerfeldt or Brian Smith racing under the CanTec Racing Team name.

I think Fred Fincham lives in Florida in the winter and Lagoon city here on Lake Simcoe in the summer. I sold a 38 Fountain for him about 3 years ago.

Here is a picture of Fred Fincham driving the Pinel (#7) with Merc Twister II (Canadian U class...not SJ - Picton 1974) that looked just like a Milesmaster. Fred blew over and I let him use my Bell helmet, the helmet he was wearing when he finally beat Ludy Schindler!
This also shows Bert Serra and Mark Rotharmel. Bert and Mark were a team I think in 1973, then in 1974 Mark was Canadian Merc factory U class.

[BrianSmith]

Two left feet! Ha! Hi there T2X!

Yup, I'm guessing it's Chick Gagen as well.....................Bert apparently sees him now and again............seems Bert is quite a "social butterfly" from what I learned talking with him.

I am even more convinced now that the # 7 is a CANTEK boat and not a copy. I just can't imagine Lorne making a mold of the Miles cowling.

That boat would be pretty tough to blow over in my memory.......what you of course have to be careful of is barrel rolling if you were using a Merc teeny-tiny prop............I tried them and in my humble opinion the boat was undrivable so I stuck to the Phil Rollas....which for some reason Merc wouldn't use.

[GENE LANHAM]

Hey "two left feet" , you do know who CG125 is ..... part of the company that put the Zonkercraft into the game.

---Could this also be CG125---finishing 15th in the 1965 Gold Coast Marathon?

http://i49.tinypic.com/11r3ccy.jpg

[Bob V]

Hi Gene...

That is a neat little piece of information. I think the thing that really caught my eye was Mona Daily placing 8th. A lot of people probably don't know that Mona was Del's wife and Duff's mother. Mona and Del campaigned the "Oh Mona" GN boat for many years before Duff took it over. Duff then went on to drive "K" boat and I believe is still doing it today.
Wasn't it you that caused him to burn up two Chrysler Hemi's in an ill fated attempt to try to catch you during the weekend Fun 'n Sun Regatta in Clearwater (circa 1970) ???

[C.G. 125]

Gene, And 11th place was Jock Hornor..C

[BrianSmith]

Hey C.G: How did you and Jock like the Miles pickles? Did you only rece them the one time in Peterborough?

[C.G. 125]

Brian..I don't remember much about the Mile's except that it was fast and a hand full in the turns. Jock never drove the pickle..We went to one other race on a big lake but not sure where it was..I have pictures somewhere of the Peterborough race. If I can find them I'll post them. CG

[peterse90]

Brian..I don't remember much about the Mile's except that it was fast and a hand full in the turns. Jock never drove the pickle..We went to one other race on a big lake but not sure where it was..I have pictures somewhere of the Peterborough race. If I can find them I'll post them. CG

C.G. 125. If the year you ran in Peterborough Bob Hering won with a pickle-fork Molinari with Jimbo right behind in the small Goat Boat that would have been 1973.
For some reason that Peterborough race drew quite a field of American drivers, plus Bob Spalding driving the Twistercraft in addition to a good field of Canadian OMC and Merc drivers.

[peterse90]

I am even more convinced now that the # 7 is a CANTEK boat and not a copy. I just can't imagine Lorne making a mold of the Miles cowling.

That boat would be pretty tough to blow over in my memory.......

Brian;
Just as I was standing on the pier in Parry Sound (1973 - see the attached pictures that aren't very good) when you rolled in the corner right in front of us (seemed like forever that you were under the boat before you surfaced!), I was in Picton when Fincham blew over about 2/3 of the way down the back stretch. Thankfully niether Fred or the boat were damaged.
You may be right about the #7 boat that Fred had in Picton being one of the CanTek boats but Lorne Pinel was a master at building boats that resembled the mainstream...you raced against the WASP which to the un-trained eye looked exactly like a Molinari. In later years Lorne built a few MOD 50 and SE boats that looked exactly like your Milemaster or a Burgess. John Sherlock had great success with one of Lorne's SE boats with a Merc 650XS.
I wish Mark Rotharmel would 'chirp' in here, he would probably know with more certainty than me...but if I see Fred Fincham I will certainly ask him.258114

[GENE LANHAM]

Hi Gene...

Duff then went on to drive "K" boat and I believe is still doing it today.
Wasn't it you that caused him to burn up two Chrysler Hemi's in an ill fated attempt to try to catch you during the weekend Fun 'n Sun Regatta in Clearwater (circa 1970) ???

That was not me Bob. That was Jim 'The Intimidator'.

[Watermark]

I was in Picton when Fincham blew over about 2/3 of the way down the back stretch. Thankfully niether Fred or the boat were damaged.
You may be right about the #7 boat that Fred had in Picton being one of the CanTek boats but Lorne Pinel was a master at building boats that resembled the mainstream...


Petese90, you are right. Fred blew over a Pinel - copy of the Miles. I was behind him when it happened.
Lorne was indeed a master - he had his arm measured off, would lean against whatever boat he was interested in building, then work his way from back to front, top to bottom. Gotta love it!

[BrianSmith]

Hi Mark:

As I recall Lorne also mostly wore checkered or striped shirts when he was around raceboats! Have you talked to DS lately? Bert and Ieach said the other nite that niether had heard about/from him for years..............last I heard you used to see him while snowmobiling.......

[shadowcat]

-cg125- sent you a private message on site-please check your in box

[Watermark]

Hi Mark:

As I recall Lorne also mostly wore checkered or striped shirts when he was around raceboats! Have you talked to DS lately? Bert and Ieach said the other nite that niether had heard about/from him for years..............last I heard you used to see him while snowmobiling.......

Reconnected last summer at a vintage event near Ottawa.. had dinner (and several bottles of red wine) while sharing stories of the past. Check this out... www.autoshotcar.com (http://www.autoshotcar.com/).

[T2x]

Reconnected last summer at a vintage event near Ottawa.. had dinner (and several bottles of red wine) while sharing stories of the past. Check this out... www.autoshotcar.com (http://www.autoshotcar.com/).

Wow Mark! Great stuff and a bit of creative photoshopping. I especially liked the "re numbering" of Reggie's boat in his classic flip at Miami Marine Stadium. (76 has become 988). I'm glad my wing "made the show".

See you at Clayton?

[BobbyR]

258219Could this be CG???// with his usual send off before a race????

[BobbyR]

258220??Port Haven TX258221Barry Woods? Port Haven TX
258222Tommy Posey-Port Haven TX Mid 1973-4?

[mark benson]

# 699 is Bob Spalding, from Great Britain! # 190 is Billy Seebold!
258220??Port Haven TX258221Barry Woods? Port Haven TX
258222Tommy Posey-Port Haven TX Mid 1973-4?

[willabee]

Wow Mark! Great stuff and a bit of creative photoshopping.... .

Who are the 3 gentlemen decked out in "racing white" standing along side of a single engine #988?

[peterse90]

Who are the 3 gentlemen decked out in "racing white" standing along side of a single engine #988?

For sure that is Dick Summerfeldt in the middle.
I'm guessing Brian Smith who was Dick's driver for Dick's 2-boat racing team is on the left (Dick's right), do not know who is on the right

[BrianSmith]

For sure that is Dick Summerfeldt in the middle.
I'm guessing Brian Smith who was Dick's driver for Dick's 2-boat racing team is on the left (Dick's right), do not know who is on the right

Nope it isn't me in the pic............It's Dick in the middle and the boat is the small 588, as opposed to the later, larger one. Must be from the era, however I don't recall the place. One of the other pics is of a Moly twin but it has UIM numbers........I'm pretty sure we (Dick) ran it in South Africa with 988 on it..could be wrong 'tho. It sure looks like Dick driving.............great pic!

[BobbyR]

Willabee, hope you don't mind --these didn't seem to fit in the Miami thread nor the lake X....Here are some pictures i found going through things from the fire in my shop at Port O'Connor


259678Jackie & Roy259679Renato259680Case loading his Molinari259681Renato's younger brothers & my son259682 These were taken at Molinari's Shop In Toriggia on Lake Comc

[BobbyR]

More259683259684259685Pictures of Molinari's boat factory and Renato testing259687some time you need help...

[BobbyR]

more....259688Ready to ship from Fred's shop259689after refueling stop at 3 hour in Milano-too many helpful pit crew259690Roy trying to blend in and Renato259691Fred and Kathy with their Labs....Still digging

[willabee]

[QUOTE=BobbyR;2354607]Willabee, hope you don't mind --these didn't seem to fit in the Miami thread nor the lake X.....[QUOTE]

Bobby, I definately don't mind, those type pictures are exactly what this thread is all about. I could look at that stuff all day long, brings back nothing but fond memories.

The shot of the OI #26 reminds me of Georgio getting ready for the Cento Millia (I'm sure that is not spelled correctly), the 100 mile race on Lake Como the week before Paris, in about in 1972.

What was the youngest brothers name?

[STEVERINO]

more....259688Ready to ship from Fred's shop259689after refueling stop at 3 hour in Milano-too many helpful pit crew259690Roy trying to blend in and Renato259691Fred and Kathy with their Labs....Still digging I think the no1 milesmaster was fredi`s first boat that he ran in the June 1970 Chasewater 500 mile race it ran a 1250sbp engine`after the race Mercury gave him a Twister 1 engine `anybody know if the flag is Irish? sometimes the british drivers entered the Paris 6hr race under another nationality if they thought the UK entries were oversubscribed.

[BobbyR]

I thought that was the Canadian Maple leaf. I'm not sure... This is a Polaroid and I was shooting 35mm so Fred must have given this one to me.
Thanks Willabee...I was there for a short in '71.... Enjoyed every secound of it....Gooood memories<o:p></o:p>

[BrianSmith]

Sure looks like a Canadian Flag to me too..............This must be an early '70 Miles; which served as the basis for the Kitsons and Screaming Yellow Zonkers boats. Our first Miles wa a later flavor as the cockpit was further back, sponsons flatter and it didn't have the afterplanes (although our second one did). If I recall Molinari produced some singles in late ' 72 withy afterplanes. Here are pics of our first two Miles (reversed order; the first one is on the right)

259818259819

[BobbyR]

Talked to my son last night and he said it was Franko (don't know if it's spelled that way...)

[willabee]

....The shot of the OI #26 reminds me of Georgio getting ready for the Cento Millia (I'm sure that is not spelled correctly), the 100 mile race on Lake Como the week before Paris, in about in 1972.

What was the youngest brothers name?

Received an email from the Old Learned One from across the pond. He claims the 100 miler on Lake Como is spelled ..... Centomiglia. I wouldn't be surprised if my guess is closer to being correct that his. After all, he is British. :D

Franco does sound right for the youngest one, thanks.

[BobbyR]

Steverino, Is Bob Spaulding still around??/

[jackie wilson]

Hiya Bobby, Just caught your last post-------No, Bobs not around any more, he died some 6 or 7 years ago----never fully recovered from the injuries he received from the accident in Seville . A few years after Percy died from his accident in Liege Belgium. Both were driving V8's.
Would like to impose on Willas Hot singles site to report the passing of my most loved friend and mechanic for many years Charles Ridal Shooter. [CHAS] When i finished racing he went on to become wrench man and crew chief for Spalding and Percival. He was loved and revered by everyone he ever met, and had friends all over the world, a gentle giant of a man in all respects with an engineering knowledge that few people realised. He was cremated Wednesday near his home in Ilkeston Derbyshire----One day i will tell you all about this wonderful man and the capers we got up to, not even Pruett could match his exploits. Very sad day for me.!!!!!!!! He was the index finger on the handful of true friends i made in my life.

[T2x]

Hiya Bobby, Just caught your last post-------No, Bobs not around any more, he died some 6 or 7 years ago----never fully recovered from the injuries he received from the accident in Seville . A few years after Percy died from his accident in Liege Belgium. Both were driving V8's.
Would like to impose on Willas Hot singles site to report the passing of my most loved friend and mechanic for many years Charles Ridal Shooter. [CHAS] When i finished racing he went on to become wrench man and crew chief for Spalding and Percival. He was loved and revered by everyone he ever met, and had friends all over the world, a gentle giant of a man in all respects with an engineering knowledge that few people realised. He was cremated Wednesday near his home in Ilkeston Derbyshire----One day i will tell you all about this wonderful man and the capers we got up to, not even Pruett could match his exploits. Very sad day for me.!!!!!!!! He was the index finger on the handful of true friends i made in my life.

May he rest in peace. This year is barely half over, yet we seem to have lost a decade's worth of racing legends.......

[jackie wilson]

Received an email from the Old Learned One from across the pond. He claims the 100 miler on Lake Como is spelled ..... Centomiglia. I wouldn't be surprised if my guess is closer to being correct that his. After all, he is British. :D

Franco does sound right for the youngest one, thanks. Dear me ,o lord give me the patience to educate just one of the colonials and to elucidate a few minor matters of not really national importance, but to satisfy the whims of the odd bods who would like to know a few of the positive maybe's of racing history,
The Centomiglia was named after the Mille Miglia 100 mile car race---was raced on Como and then i believe it moved to Lake Garda but i wouldn't bet the farm on it.
There is a Centomiglia for sail boats on lake Garda that attracts hundreds of entries annually .
Then of course there is the river PO race which is still a "RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG" event, i am certain Renato would have gotten Willabee to find him some of the Mercury secret sh=t to take there. That right Willum?????

[BrianSmith]

Jackie: I am sorry to hear of your friends' demise.
T2X and I seem to have quite opposite views of Freddi Miles boats. Dick and I enjoyed great success with them and I'm sure that some must have done well on your side of the "pond". Out of the 4 (different) that I drove I don't recall ever being close to blowing one over, even 'tho I enjoyed a very successful number of seasons with Canadian National and region 2 championships. Barrel rolling the sprint was a challenge as CG attests to as well as me (once) although I must admit that mine was my own fault.

What are your "learned" memories?

[jackie wilson]

Jackie: I am sorry to hear of your friends' demise.
T2X and I seem to have quite opposite views of Freddi Miles boats. Dick and I enjoyed great success with them and I'm sure that some must have done well on your side of the "pond". Out of the 4 (different) that I drove I don't recall ever being close to blowing one over, even 'tho I enjoyed a very successful number of seasons with Canadian National and region 2 championships. Barrel rolling the sprint was a challenge as CG attests to as well as me (once) although I must admit that mine was my own fault.

What are your "learned" memories?----------Hiya Brian, bear with me for a few mo's whilst i give you a brief history of ' THE MILES MASTER"
When Shakey was killed at Windermere, Dave Burgess -[who was his boatbuilder] was out of a job, so Freddie had him build a couple of boats. These were basically Shakespeare's. Shakey was an OMC driver and Fred thought he could squeeze a contract out of them to build boats, but that turned out to be a no brainer.
Dick Sommerfeld turned out to be Freds saviour !!!!!!!! he spent large wads of cash on various boats and kept the turnover flowing.
The breakthrough came at Liege in Belgium, when Fred and Wilf Gregory lapped the whole field in the first hour, the water was big and sloppy and all the 18' Molli's and the Scottis were having a terrible time, That short arsed little boat just tickled the wavetops and ran like it was on rails. To cut to the chase------all went well until Wilf came back into the pits for a driver change and just plain did not shut the motor down-----------smacked the jetty really hard and wiped the boat out------end of race for the boat---but not the end of the tale.
Garbrecht did a deal with Fred------had the boat under wraps and halfway to the USA before the end of the race------Willa knows the rest.
Just a little aside to the tale-----------Miles was an aircraft firm based in Shoreham-by-sea-----one of their most successful planes was the --------MILES MASTER.
What's not generally known or acknowledged stateside is the fact that the BELL X7 THAT CHUCK YEAGER JOCKEYED WAS IN FACT A MILES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was given ---free gratis to the USA as a gift by Winston Churchill as a thank you for the help the colonials had given during the war.
Fact is we were still paying for the Marshall Plan until well into the second millennium----but without you guys sticking your oars in, we would have been up sh-t creek and probably been shopping with deutschmarks-----wearing lederhosen ---and eating white hard boiled eggs for breakfast

[BrianSmith]

Thanx so much Jackie:

It has aways seemed odd to me that Mercury (Garbrecht) put "all their eggs in one basket" with Molinari when the Miles were so successful (for us anyway). The only thing we found is that you couldn't use the small 3 bladed props from Mercury which would explain the "issues" that the detractors experienced. We tried these and as I have said before the boats were virtually undrivable (in my opinion)

Maybe Willa could remind us of what happened (?)

[jackie wilson]

Thanx so much Jackie:

It has aways seemed odd to me that Mercury (Garbrecht) put "all their eggs in one basket" with Molinari when the Miles were so successful (for us anyway). The only thing we found is that you couldn't use the small 3 bladed props from Mercury which would explain the "issues" that the detractors experienced. We tried these and as I have said before the boats were virtually undrivable (in my opinion)

Maybe Willa could remind us of what happened (?) Rolla sorted the prop problem for Fred--------he loaned him some 30 props in various guises IE, 2 blade---- 3 blade ----cleavers, elephant ears etc Fred tested endlessly until he found one that suited him, You must remember Fred was a works driver for the Suzuki team in the early days and was used to chasing out problems as well as being a first class engineer.

[T2x]

Now that you two are done trying to create the fable of a dominant English racing hull, please explain why Fred created the abrupt chines which nearly assured at least one barrel roll from each hull? Bottom line..... mine ran great in choppy water but had chines that made it unturnable in those conditions, and porpoised like a bouncing ball in calm right on up to blowover speed. Apparently without an outdated Rolla prop it was useless.

260330

260329

T2x

[jackie wilson]

Now that you two are done trying to create the fable of a dominant English racing hull, please explain why Fred created the abrupt chines which nearly assured at least one barrel roll from each hull? Bottom line..... mine ran great in choppy water but had chines that made it unturnable in those conditions, and porpoised like a bouncing ball in calm right on up to blowover speed. Apparently without an outdated Rolla prop it was useless.

260330

260329

T2x I would not have given you a thank you if you gave me one for free-----------the only Miles --[ or british built tunnel] i had was the very first 2 litre Cosworth Bill Brown and i ran for a season. Before we had a minor disagreement and went our separate ways.
I have no idea why he put chines or after planes or reverse s's. i was only interested in getting the best out of a nearly finished product. I could beat the Miles 9 out of 10 times---but Fred was always full of surprises---and could pull the odd rabbit out of the hat

[STEVERINO]

Steverino, Is Bob Spaulding still around??/ Bobby R have been out of town 2 weeks so missed your post about Bob Spalding`we had some good races against each other`he was a good man and loved to go boat racing`we started racing in the bigger class boats in 1968 both with 125hp mercury`
never heard anyone have a bad word to say about him in boat racing(exept for his wife?)please tell us how you came to know him.I could stir things up a little and tell you he raced 3 of Fred`s Milesmaster boats never heard him say a bad word against them!.Anybody hear about freddi running Johnson in 1972?.

[BobbyR]

First..... Jackie please tell me that someone has documented Fred Miles feats..... I have the "Iron Fist" and the book Carl Moesly wrote - both are treasured possession’s of mine. Knew EC and know Carl & Jean well and of course I spent time with Fred and Kathy and felt I knew them well also. Fred started building boats before we lost Sakespeare didn't He? As I remember it was Sakespeare who tangled with Bob Spaulding in the club house turn ( Chasewater 500) that took Bob out of the race... Am i wrong ??// What was the name of the lad in Holland - not Cese but the young lad ....
Steverino, I had the pleasure of working with the Mercury drivers in Europe '70-'71..( I got the job because Big Bro. was head honcho)...One being Bob of course... Don't be afraid to stir things a bit just follow Jackie's lead.... Enjoyed my time with Bob... I could tell you a few things but they seem to raise the hairs on the necks of a few... Bob was easy to work with and did not let things get to him - I saw him as a great driver...

[seeroy]

Outstanding Bob Spalding history at Faston water

http://www.fastonwater.co.uk/bob-spalding.html (http://www.fastonwater.co.uk/bob-spalding.html)

And a great series of Calrsberg ad with Spalding

http://www.fastonwater.co.uk/those-ads.html

[jackie wilson]

First..... Jackie please tell me that someone has documented Fred Miles feats..... I have the "Iron Fist" and the book Carl Moesly wrote - both are treasured possession’s of mine. Knew EC and know Carl & Jean well and of course I spent time with Fred and Kathy and felt I knew them well also. Fred started building boats before we lost Sakespeare didn't He? As I remember it was Sakespeare who tangled with Bob Spaulding in the club house turn ( Chasewater 500) that took Bob out of the race... Am i wrong ??// What was the name of the lad in Holland - not Cese but the young lad ....
Steverino, I had the pleasure of working with the Mercury drivers in Europe '70-'71..( I got the job because Big Bro. was head honcho)...One being Bob of course... Don't be afraid to stir things a bit just follow Jackie's lead.... Enjoyed my time with Bob... I could tell you a few things but they seem to raise the hairs on the necks of a few... Bob was easy to work with and did not let things get to him - I saw him as a great driver...

Hans Pelster??????? Father went with him everywhere---great family

[jackie wilson]

Now that you two are done trying to create the fable of a dominant English racing hull, please explain why Fred created the abrupt chines which nearly assured at least one barrel roll from each hull? Bottom line..... mine ran great in choppy water but had chines that made it unturnable in those conditions, and porpoised like a bouncing ball in calm right on up to blowover speed. Apparently without an outdated Rolla prop it was useless.

260330

260329

T2x Come-- Come old chap !!!!!!!! where did i ever say that the Miles only ever ran with an outdated Rolla prop?????
A, there is no such thing as an OUTDATED Rolla prop!!!!!!!!!! B every prop he ever built was for a purpose, Mercury thought they were good enough to copy, Ask any old driver Ie Herring, Downard, Molinari, Seebold, Bentz, They all ran Rolla's----why should the Miles be an exception??? Not trying to prove anything-------just telling you the way it was then, Mercury were light years behind OMC in gearcases, and similarly with Props----------took them years to even get close, Just my fourpennorth,

[jackie wilson]

Bobby R have been out of town 2 weeks so missed your post about Bob Spalding`we had some good races against each other`he was a good man and loved to go boat racing`we started racing in the bigger class boats in 1968 both with 125hp mercury`
never heard anyone have a bad word to say about him in boat racing(exept for his wife?)please tell us how you came to know him.I could stir things up a little and tell you he raced 3 of Fred`s Milesmaster boats never heard him say a bad word against them!.Anybody hear about freddi running Johnson in 1972?.

WHICH wife Steve ?? Patsy , no1------or Jilly no2, ???? Little wonder they got the snots !!!!!!!!!Bob "LOVED" his way around the world---Born in Argentina----was THE genuine latin lover and made Clarke Gable, George Clooney and all the rest look like cock virgins----but we all loved him to bits.

[T2x]

Come-- Come old chap !!!!!!!! where did i ever say that the Miles only ever ran with an outdated Rolla prop?????
A, there is no such thing as an OUTDATED Rolla prop!!!!!!!!!! ,

Okay, it wouldn't run without an "indated" 2 blade, low rake Rolla cleaver....in the days after OMC, Mercury and Rolla had all gone to high rake 3 bladed wheels.

[STEVERINO]

----------Hiya Brian, bear with me for a few mo's whilst i give you a brief history of ' THE MILES MASTER"
When Shakey was killed at Windermere, Dave Burgess -[who was his boatbuilder] was out of a job, so Freddie had him build a couple of boats. These were basically Shakespeare's. Shakey was an OMC driver and Fred thought he could squeeze a contract out of them to build boats, but that turned out to be a no brainer.
Dick Sommerfeld turned out to be Freds saviour !!!!!!!! he spent large wads of cash on various boats and kept the turnover flowing.
The breakthrough came at Liege in Belgium, when Fred and Wilf Gregory lapped the whole field in the first hour, the water was big and sloppy and all the 18' Molli's and the Scottis were having a terrible time, That short arsed little boat just tickled the wavetops and ran like it was on rails. To cut to the chase------all went well until Wilf came back into the pits for a driver change and just plain did not shut the motor down-----------smacked the jetty really hard and wiped the boat out------end of race for the boat---but not the end of the tale.
Garbrecht did a deal with Fred------had the boat under wraps and halfway to the USA before the end of the race------Willa knows the rest.
Just a little aside to the tale-----------Miles was an aircraft firm based in Shoreham-by-sea-----one of their most successful planes was the --------MILES MASTER.
What's not generally known or acknowledged stateside is the fact that the BELL X7 THAT CHUCK YEAGER JOCKEYED WAS IN FACT A MILES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was given ---free gratis to the USA as a gift by Winston Churchill as a thank you for the help the colonials had given during the war.
Fact is we were still paying for the Marshall Plan until well into the second millennium----but without you guys sticking your oars in, we would have been up sh-t creek and probably been shopping with deutschmarks-----wearing lederhosen ---and eating white hard boiled eggs for breakfast Hy`a Jackie i am sure i could try to find a picture to post of the same type of boat that freddi ran in Liege?

[STEVERINO]

I would not have given you a thank you if you gave me one for free-----------the only Miles --[ or british built tunnel] i had was the very first 2 litre Cosworth Bill Brown and i ran for a season. Before we had a minor disagreement and went our separate ways.
I have no idea why he put chines or after planes or reverse s's. i was only interested in getting the best out of a nearly finished product. I could beat the Miles 9 out of 10 times---but Fred was always full of surprises---and could pull the odd rabbit out of the hat Hy`a Jackie tell us about the cat that you bought off Rodger Hooks wife that was british built i remember it went very well in 1974 at Rotterdam.I even new the man that built it?

[T2x]

Hy`a Jackie tell us about the cat that you bought off Rodger Hooks wife that was british built i remember it went very well in 1974 at Rotterdam.I even new the man that built it?

Where are the Italians and Dutchmen on this site to defend their National Honor......? :D :p

[BobbyR]

As i remember it the first true tunnel hull I saw was the Molinari that Roy drove in the Gold Coast Marthon - early to mid 60's....Italian I believe......Before that were the many cats..... loved those boats .... took up the whole south end of the lake if you didn't pull back on the inside throttle (motor that is) Like the cats - next thing you knew everyone was making them ....Big and little....good & bad (forgot to add this)

[seeroy]

Hi Bobby - I was standing next to the motel at Lake X with a bunch of folks when Roy first ran that Molinari. He eased across the lake, turned around and ran full speed directly at us.We could see all the way straight down the tunnel. I think that we all realized that we were seeing a huge change in boat racing at that very moment. After the Gold Coast, Roy told me that he would pull up next to several big block SK boats, sit along side for a short while, wave, and then simply put the hammer down and run away from them. The flat bottom drivers could not believe what they were seeing. The rest is history. Best Regards - Steve Sirois

[jackie wilson]

Hy`a Jackie tell us about the cat that you bought off Rodger Hooks wife that was british built i remember it went very well in 1974 at Rotterdam.I even new the man that built it?

Sod my old britches Steve, i honestly forgot about that!!!!!!!!!!!
Fell out with Bill after he dropped the boat off the crane in Rotterdam.
Went down to Devon and bought the boat from Sandra Hook [ that was after Roger died] Boy was she one of the best looking women i ever saw in my life !!!!!!!!
Bought a brand new BDG 2 litre---------Chas and i rigged the boat in 5 days and set off for Amsterdam, with the boat never even had its bum wet.
Just made drivers meeting, but missed testing,
Came out of the traps at the start like Polaris and left Molinari and Brown and the whole Mercury and OMC works team trailing in the long distance- Lead for 1hour and 10 mins and then split a water hose.
Race was split into 2 by 1 and a half hour races,
Did the same trick in the next race and won hands down,
Dave Brocklington built that boat-----sold it to a Dutchman and never saw it again

[BobbyR]

Steverino,
maybe I'm wrong on this but I remember Bob speaking of some "arena" boat racing near him. The picture i got from his talks was a well lite pond with night boat racing - bleachers???- must have been a short course... Years later I saw a movie of your jet boat racing in a series of dug canals...Thought of what Bob had said at that time....I have to hand it to your inovation and your desire to race in the wet stuff.. When I was across the pond and even for a few years after we had square miles of water to race on. no problem finding a body of water to race on. Now all the big Marthon races are gone and even most of the small closed course races...too many people.....

[STEVERINO]

Steverino,
maybe I'm wrong on this but I remember Bob speaking of some "arena" boat racing near him. The picture i got from his talks was a well lite pond with night boat racing - bleachers???- must have been a short course... Years later I saw a movie of your jet boat racing in a series of dug canals...Thought of what Bob had said at that time....I have to hand it to your inovation and your desire to race in the wet stuff.. When I was across the pond and even for a few years after we had square miles of water to race on. no problem finding a body of water to race on. Now all the big Marthon races are gone and even most of the small closed course races...too many people..... Well Bobby the first thing that comes to mind is Oulton Broad in the racing season i do believe they have still have club events on most thursday nights and national events on bank holiday mondays`all the people on holiday around that area head to Nicholas Everitt park on thursday nights` that is where the events are staged.Thats the circuit that Tom Percival and Bob Spalding practised their skills on.SP.

[BrianSmith]

Come-- Come old chap !!!!!!!! where did i ever say that the Miles only ever ran with an outdated Rolla prop?????
A, there is no such thing as an OUTDATED Rolla prop!!!!!!!!!! B every prop he ever built was for a purpose, Mercury thought they were good enough to copy, Ask any old driver Ie Herring, Downard, Molinari, Seebold, Bentz, They all ran Rolla's----why should the Miles be an exception??? Not trying to prove anything-------just telling you the way it was then, Mercury were light years behind OMC in gearcases, and similarly with Props----------took them years to even get close, Just my fourpennorth,

I Agree fully Jackie; We did an awful lot of Real Testing (That is setting up a course and running on it) during the years. The only thing we did at a race-site was to run the course and check our times and the layout of course. I saw many who seemed to to their testing there. Even when we found "the right prop" there was always something else to try. Dick had a pretty good relationship with Phil Rolla and he sent many props to us and suggested modifications and set-ups.
Most of the Merc guys I think were "stuck with" what Merc had on the truck and never went beyond that.

[willabee]

.....Most of the Merc guys I think were "stuck with" what Merc had on the truck and never went beyond that.

Makes me wonder why several OMC's had propshafts splined to fit a Merc prop?

Also seems like when someone did find a Rolla prop that worked very well for them, more often than not it soon became nothing more than an expensive paperweight after it tossed a blade.

How in the blazes did we ever win a race with that antiquated Fred Flintstone era mixer hanging on the end of the propshaft?

[STEVERINO]

Sod my old britches Steve, i honestly forgot about that!!!!!!!!!!!
Fell out with Bill after he dropped the boat off the crane in Rotterdam.
Went down to Devon and bought the boat from Sandra Hook [ that was after Roger died] Boy was she one of the best looking women i ever saw in my life !!!!!!!!
Bought a brand new BDG 2 litre---------Chas and i rigged the boat in 5 days and set off for Amsterdam, with the boat never even had its bum wet.
Just made drivers meeting, but missed testing,
Came out of the traps at the start like Polaris and left Molinari and Brown and the whole Mercury and OMC works team trailing in the long distance- Lead for 1hour and 10 mins and then split a water hose.
Race was split into 2 by 1 and a half hour races,
Did the same trick in the next race and won hands down,
Dave Brocklington built that boat-----sold it to a Dutchman and never saw it again Jackie i Remember seeing that boat first at Windemere in the pits didn`t see it run`the boatbuilders were Scimitar boats in Bideford Devon run by Dave Lott a good friend of none other than Mr Rodger Jenkins Ex World Champion and Peter Thorneyworks` the chippy`s name Desi Roberts` you can see the first ON cat they built on this site under Embassy Grande` Prix at Bristol the red and black boat at Paris in 1973. In 1974 i said to my good friend Dave Brockington who ran a outboard marine business i need my own boat do you have enough spare Omc parts to build me a Johnson engine which he did and said you critised the last boat you better do the drawings for this one yourself which i did`it didn`t turn out a pretty boat but it ran with the pack i can try and find a picture it looks identical to the inboard cat you had 18ft long`good rough water boat i still have the trophy`s for the Rotterdam race 1st private entry 3rd overall not for someone that had no idea what he was doing?.

[jackie wilson]

Makes me wonder why several OMC's had propshafts splined to fit a Merc prop?

Also seems like when someone did find a Rolla prop that worked very well for them, more often than not it soon became nothing more than an expensive paperweight after it tossed a blade.

How in the blazes did we ever win a race with that antiquated Fred Flintstone era mixer hanging on the end of the propshaft?


OOOOOO!!!!!!!Itchy bitchy-------who rattled your little cage then Willa ??? Sure hope it wasn't me,
You didn't have anything but two bladed cake mixers in those days,
Schneider was the nicest guy in the world and in charge of props, didn't get a lot of help from R&D
Hetzel was still cutting his teeth !!! Was he even in the propshop in 1970
Omc had Hendricks------------the europeans had Rolla, and Mercury had miles and miles of heart and hope, but were bloody good at copying quickly.
Rolla and Hendricks were good friends, and i met Hendricks at Rolla's shop in Lugano on a couple of occasions.
The first 3 and 4 blade props i ever saw and tried were Rolla.
Makes me wonder if OMC used the Merc propshaft just so they could run Rolla props Just a thought as you sit on the loo and cogitate Willa--------Just helping your "Hot singles towards the Quarter Mill mark

[jackie wilson]

Makes me wonder why several OMC's had propshafts splined to fit a Merc prop?

Also seems like when someone did find a Rolla prop that worked very well for them, more often than not it soon became nothing more than an expensive paperweight after it tossed a blade.

How in the blazes did we ever win a race with that antiquated Fred Flintstone era mixer hanging on the end of the propshaft?


OOOOOO!!!!!!!Itchy bitchy-------who rattled your little cage then Willa ??? Sure hope it wasn't me,
You didn't have anything but two bladed cake mixers in those days,
Schneider was the nicest guy in the world and in charge of props, didn't get a lot of help from R&D
Hetzel was still cutting his teeth !!! Was he even in the propshop in 1970
Omc had Hendricks------------the europeans had Rolla, and Mercury had miles and miles of heart and hope, but were bloody good at copying quickly.
Rolla and Hendricks were good friends, and i met Hendricks at Rolla's shop in Lugano on a couple of occasions.
The first 3 and 4 blade props i ever saw and tried were Rolla.
Makes me wonder if OMC used the Merc propshaft just so they could run Rolla props Just a thought as you sit on the loo and cogitate Willa--------Just helping your "Hot singles towards the Quarter Mill mark

[willabee]

OOOOOO!!!!!!!Itchy bitchy-------who rattled your little cage then Willa ???

You didn't have anything but two bladed cake mixers in those days,
Schneider was the nicest guy in the world and in charge of props, didn't get a lot of help from R&D

Hetzel was still cutting his teeth !!! Was he even in the propshop in 1970

Omc had Hendricks------------the europeans had Rolla, and Mercury had miles and miles of heart and hope, ..........

Makes me wonder if OMC used the Merc propshaft just so they could run Rolla props Just a thought as you sit on the loo and cogitate Willa--------

What you don't know is that Hetzel reads this on a pretty regular basis and my guess is that he will call and ask me to make a couple of comments in Merc's defense. I've asked him to join in, but he just won't do it. :(

Dick Snyder was R & D for props, that was part of what his department did. I'm thinking that Don Schwebs transferred to Lake X in about 1968. That would be when Hetzel took over the prop shop.

That last little thing about OMC and the Merc propshaft was a clever little shot, who helped you come up with it? :D

[C.G. 125]

Hetzel was the best..:)

[T2x]

Hetzel was the best..:)

In his time yes.... Today Hering and Dewald hold that title with Rolla still cranking out some nice stuff for yachts and things. Truth is in 1964, the best props came from people like Michigan Propeller, then came the Records and Cary's , then Dick Schneider pulled the "Elephant Ear" out of his head, then Hendricks came to the fore with the higher rake cleavers on OMC's new line of race motors, and it has gone round and round ever since (Don't forget Jon Culver and Papa Seebold's modified Mercury wheels). In the end it's all good...... except for that F**kin' Milesmaster... :D

[jackie wilson]

Makes me wonder why several OMC's had propshafts splined to fit a Merc prop?

Also seems like when someone did find a Rolla prop that worked very well for them, more often than not it soon became nothing more than an expensive paperweight after it tossed a blade.

How in the blazes did we ever win a race with that antiquated Fred Flintstone era mixer hanging on the end of the propshaft?

Good morrow fair Willabee--------------Did it ever occur to you that you may have won races due to several mitigating factors !!! IE,
1----------You had the best motor in the world !!!
2----------You had the best boats!!
3----------You had the best drivers
4 ---------You had the best race facility in the world
5---------You had Garbrecht
6 --------Not a bad crew chief
7 --------A hekin fuge race budget

So the conclusion one could come to is --------You won races in spite of your " Antiquated FRED FLINTSTONE mixer type bean cans hanging on the end of your propshft

[willabee]

..... and it has gone round and round ever since .....

No pun intended? :o

[jackie wilson]

In his time yes.... Today Hering and Dewald hold that title with Rolla still cranking out some nice stuff for yachts and things. Truth is in 1964, the best props came from people like Michigan Propeller, then came the Records and Cary's , then Dick Schneider pulled the "Elephant Ear" out of his head, then Hendricks came to the fore with the higher rake cleavers on OMC's new line of race motors, and it has gone round and round ever since (Don't forget Jon Culver and Papa Seebold's modified Mercury wheels). In the end it's all good...... except for that F**kin' Milesmaster... :D

Rolla does not own the factory any more-------'twas bought by Twin Disc who Bought out Arneson.
One of the reasons they paid big bucks is -----IT WAS A PROFIT MAKING COMPANY.
Reason------Rolla had moved on from the very limited competition market to wider fields---ie Super yachts , Military and big money stuff.
He still has a tickle now and again ----but my side of the pond he was top dog during the 60/s 70/s era.
You ever wonder how come the likes of Dieter Schultze, Renato Molinari, Ceasere Scotti, Cees Velden came over to the USA and were so successful ------------did you know ---they were all customers of Phil Rolla an American residing in Switzerland who just happened to be THE guru of props.

[willabee]

Good morrow fair Willabee--------------Did it ever occur to you that you may have won races due to several mitigating factors !!! IE,
6 --------Not a bad crew chief
7 --------A hekin fuge race budget

I knew #6 was a shot (not one of your better one's, but a shot just the same), but I must admit I had a little trouble figuring out what you were trying to say in #7. Just as I was about to Google "hekin fuge" it broke through the grey matter and lit up like the sun. :o

Reminded me of a little story. After I was promoted to Manager of Hi Perf., I was brought into a "budget meeting". During that session I was informed of what the Hi Performance Products department could spend on racing for the year. Remember, all of the "support" boats were now under Hi Perf, not the Racing Team (Racing had the four Stars & Stripes drivers). Anyway, I think Parker was next on the schedule and I asked how much of an effort they wanted Hi Perf. to put forth and the response was we want to win.

After the race I informed Garbrecht that I had pretty much shot the the entire years wad at Parker. He informed me that I would have to apply for additional funding. I don't remember the process anymore, I just remember that I did what I was supposed to do and a new budget just magically appeared. The lesson I learned was "don't worry about what you spend, just do well and you won't run out of money" ..... others may have simply said " hekin fuge budget" :D

[GENE LANHAM]

Rolla does not own the factory any more-------'twas bought by Twin Disc who Bought out Arneson.
One of the reasons they paid big bucks is -----IT WAS A PROFIT MAKING COMPANY.
Reason------Rolla had moved on from the very limited competition market to wider fields---ie Super yachts , Military and big money stuff.
He still has a tickle now and again ----but my side of the pond he was top dog during the 60/s 70/s era.
You ever wonder how come the likes of Dieter Schultze, Renato Molinari, Ceasere Scotti, Cees Velden came over to the USA and were so successful ------------did you know ---they were all customers of Phil Rolla an American residing in Switzerland who just happened to be THE guru of props.

Jackie--pulled this out 'Searace'--check out the four blade

http://i49.tinypic.com/sm7t03.jpg

[STEVERINO]

My thinking is only a guess`3 factory Molinari T11 outfits full tunnels all had big name sponsers all came to win the 1973? Chasewater 500 race along comes freddi with no sponsers with a T11X to spoil the fun with a new picklefork 1st one i saw with a 3ft tunnel i am sure he never even ran a T11`Dave Burgess would be the man to ask i think he has posted on this site before maybe we will get a reply.I was told at the time Cees was non too pleased?.Maybe GG just wanted to see how it performed against the older engines.I saw this boat being built in Freddi`s workshop 1972 nice looking boat had large angled air slots in either side of the deck Scotti had a boat with deck slots in like it`it was going to the world championships race and one of Freddi`s driver`s name of Max Milten was to drive it.Hope Bobby R you are reading this the picture shows the boat being driven maybe on a thursday night? at Oulton Broad maybe Freddi took it there to see how it ran against the Merc`s of Bob or Toms.Heard later at the world championship race it didn`t perform as good as Fred would have liked`GG would have been at the race and maybe asked Freddi whats with the Johnson?Then offered the soon to arrive T11x? in 1973?260717

[T2x]

You ever wonder how come the likes of Dieter Schultze, Renato Molinari, Ceasere Scotti, Cees Velden came over to the USA and were so successful ------------did you know ---they were all customers of Phil Rolla an American residing in Switzerland who just happened to be THE guru of props.

If I am reading this correctly none of you folks from across the pond would have won a race over here without an expatriot American's propellers......? Which begs the question... what wheels did Seebold run when he used to stomp around Bristol like he owned the place?

On a related issue...is it possible that my problems with the F**kin' Milesmaster occurred because I was driving it on the wrong side of the road?

Cheerio and toodles old chap..... :D :D

T2x

[jackie wilson]

If I am reading this correctly none of you folks from across the pond would have won a race over here without an expatriot American's propellers......? Which begs the question... what wheels did Seebold run when he used to stomp around Bristol like he owned the place?

On a related issue...is it possible that my problems with the F**kin' Milesmaster occurred because I was driving it on the wrong side of the road?

Cheerio and toodles old chap..... :D :D

T2x Did you not ever see the the ROLLA logo on the side of Billy's boat. My son Mark worked at Rolla in Switzerland for 10 years----ran with a Seebold-----good friends with Mike and Timmy-----don't take a genius to figure out WHAT prop he ran around Bristol. Back to the original statement -------Mercury had sh-t props. [in the early days].

You had to have gynormous goolies to even get into one of Freds creations.
Grab it by the horns and show the damn thing who was bossman.

[jackie wilson]

[QUOTE=GENE LANHAM;2360389]Jackie--pulled this out 'Searace'--check out the four blade

http://i49.tinypic.com/sm7t03.jpg[/QUOTECould do with a little help here Gene------am amazed that so little is known of Rolla stateside. Sirois spent half his life chasing Phil-----both when he was with Mercury and when he went Offshore. Pruett was in the shop every other day when he was with Ballestieros Spalding and Percival were Regular visitors---Velden also. Phil was one of the few people who had a little bit of know how on props----but even he said it was not an exact science and trial and error were two of his playmates.
He used Record and Radice props as a base and went and improved---------that's only MY interpretation.
Even today---if you want to set a world record------talk to Rolla first.

[BrianSmith]

Rolla does not own the factory any more-------'twas bought by Twin Disc who Bought out Arneson.
One of the reasons they paid big bucks is -----IT WAS A PROFIT MAKING COMPANY.
Reason------Rolla had moved on from the very limited competition market to wider fields---ie Super yachts , Military and big money stuff.
He still has a tickle now and again ----but my side of the pond he was top dog during the 60/s 70/s era.
You ever wonder how come the likes of Dieter Schultze, Renato Molinari, Ceasere Scotti, Cees Velden came over to the USA and were so successful ------------did you know ---they were all customers of Phil Rolla an American residing in Switzerland who just happened to be THE guru of props.

WOW! Did ever stir things up!

What ever happened to the MILES Jackie mentioned awhile ago Wila?

[BrianSmith]

[QUOTE=jackie wilson;2360436]Did you not ever see the the ROLLA logo on the side of Billy's boat. My son Mark worked at Rolla in Switzerland for 10 years----ran with a Seebold-----good friends with Mike and Timmy-----don't take a genius to figure out WHAT prop he ran around Bristol. Back to the original statement -------Mercury had sh-t props. [in the early days].

You had to have gynormous goolies to even get into one of Freds creations.
Grs and show the damn thing who was bossman.[/ab it by the hornQUOTE]

As quoted from the Ilustrious Don Pruet (talking about unlimiteds actually) "We carry them around in a wheelbarrow rather than a tabaca can!"

"Grab it by the horns and show the damn thing who was bossman." Yup! and have that Rolla large diameter zero rake prop!

[shadowcat]

okay- I will help you out here guys- you can keep your Rolla Props and I will gladly take the HERRING and DEWALD props you don't want!!!!!!----oh- and that's a typo -it is hekin fudge!:)

PS-Other than Rich- it appears you guys haven't bought a prop in the last 10 yrs

[lilabner]

Cary...

[jackie wilson]

okay- I will help you out here guys- you can keep your Rolla Props and I will gladly take the HERRING and DEWALD props you don't want!!!!!!----oh- and that's a typo -it is hekin fudge!:)

PS-Other than Rich- it appears you guys haven't bought a prop in the last 10 yrs
Gave up buying props a hell of a lot more than 10 years ago, -----but then this is about the era when even BOBBY HERRING was using Rolla Props. Today my grandson Craig is still winning WORLD titles with Herring and Rolla Wheels, albeit they are much Heckin fuger than they used to be------But so are the boats------and the Motors AND THE HECKIN PRICE.

[T2x]

Gave up buying props a hell of a lot more than 10 years ago, -----but then this is about the era when even BOBBY HERRING was using Rolla Props. Today my grandson Craig is still winning WORLD titles with Herring and Rolla Wheels, albeit they are much Heckin fuger than they used to be------But so are the boats------and the Motors AND THE HECKIN PRICE.

Jackie: We could have purchased an entire boat, engine and trailer back in the day for the price of a Hering Offshore wheel today.

[jackie wilson]

Jackie: We could have purchased and entire boat, engine and trailer back in the day for the price of a Hering Offshore wheel today..
once asked my grandson Craig------how much is a pair of Hering props for your boat ( 42' Fountain with a pair of Ilmoors )------I still cannot believe what he told me----about 30 thousand dollars. And he has 3 sets!!!!!!
You could get a matched pair of PURDY's for that. Or a half tidy Roller or Bentley. ------- or week in the best little whore house in Paris. JEsus wept, the world has gone mad.
I can still remember when a Big Mac. With frys. A gallon of Coke and a hot Apple pie were a dollar.

[T2x]

.
once asked my grandson Craig------how much is a pair of Hering props for your boat ( 42' Fountain with a pair of Ilmoors )------I still cannot believe what he told me----about 30 thousand dollars. And he has 3 sets!!!!!!
You could get a matched pair of PURDY's for that. Or a half tidy Roller or Bentley. ------- or week in the best little whore house in Paris. JEsus wept, the world has gone mad.
I can still remember when a Big Mac. With frys. A gallon of Coke and a hot Apple pie were a dollar.

or a White Castle Hamburger was .12......

As I recall dealer net on a 1965 Merc 1000 was about $920.00 and that included a gas tank, aluminum (Pot metal) prop and controls.

[jackie wilson]

or a White Castle Hamburger was .12......

As I recall dealer net on a 1965 Merc 1000 was about $920.00 and that included a gas tank aluminum (Pot metal) prop and controls.

The first Molinari Don Ross and i bought was $2,500 US, there were currency restrictions in place at that time and i smuggled the cash out in the front cover of a 1000 Merc.[ where the pull cord was stored]. I took out a freshly moulded yellow 16' Copy of a Levi on a snipe trailer-------Sold the boat for washers in Italy and came back with an 18' yellow Molly on a much modified trailer and sailed through customs without any problems.
First race was Chasewater which we won----caught Tom Percival taking measurements from the boat and gently told him to beetle off or i would stuff his entrails down his throat, i never saw him near my boat again with a tape measure.

You are about right on the price Rich, i was a Mercury dealer in those days and the 100 hp six was under £1,000.
We used to say if the price ever did reach a £1,000 ------- they would never sell, 'cos no one could afford them.
Crap and corruption-----was i ever wrong.!!!!!!!!!!!

[T2x]

The first Molinari Don Ross and i bought was $2,500 US, there were currency restrictions in place at that time and i smuggled the cash out in the front cover of a 1000 Merc.[ where the pull cord was stored]. I took out a freshly moulded yellow 16' Copy of a Levi on a snipe trailer-------Sold the boat for washers in Italy and came back with an 18' yellow Molly on a much modified trailer and sailed through customs without any problems.
First race was Chasewater which we won----caught Tom Percival taking measurements from the boat and gently told him to beetle off or i would stuff his entrails down his throat, i never saw him near my boat again with a tape measure.

You are about right on the price Rich, i was a Mercury dealer in those days and the 100 hp six was under £1,000.
We used to say if the price ever did reach a £1,000 ------- they would never sell, 'cos no one could afford them.
Crap and corruption-----was i ever wrong.!!!!!!!!!!!

First time we displayed our 30 foot Shadow Cat at the Miami Boat Show in 1980.... I saw a pair of legs sticking out from underneath the trailer. Soon the figure of Don Aronow appeared attached to the legs in question...as he left he muttered to the bejeweled beauty on his arm..."It'll never work"..... a year later, a (much shorter) pair of legs was caught in the same position at the NY Boat Show...by then the world...and Reggie Fountain....knew it would!

:D

[jackie wilson]

They walk amongst us,would have us believe they are unique''!!!!!!!!!!! Instead of being treble D, ( Doubtful. DEvious. and Dubious )
Still believe Sonny was the original and Aranow was the copier.
Cetti was the original and Angelo the copier.
Maybe you know something I don!t Rich, but till I hear different that's my view.
should get Willa. Out from under the sheets

Bought a new I pad 3 last week and this is my first attempt at using it--------
Amazing piece of kit------- but a bit beyond my capabilities yet.

[T2x]

They walk amongst us,would have us believe they are unique''!!!!!!!!!!! Instead of being treble D, ( Doubtful. DEvious. and Dubious )
Still believe Sonny was the original and Aranow was the copier.
Cetti was the original and Angelo the copier.
Maybe you know something I don!t Rich, but till I hear different that's my view.
should get Willa. Out from under the sheets

Bought a new I pad 3 last week and this is my first attempt at using it--------
Amazing piece of kit------- but a bit beyond my capabilities yet.

Jackie:

You might enjoy these from a decade ago.........


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/12464-great-moments-v-bottom-history.html


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/14410-great-moments-cat-history.html

[shadowcat]

say Rich- out of curosity- what did the 1980 shadowcat cost roughly without power???

Ted

[T2x]

say Rich- out of curosity- what did the 1980 shadowcat cost roughly without power???

Ted

35-45 K depending upon race-pleasure-options...etc.

[FUJIMO]

Everyone, without exception, gets their design cues/names/educaton from the many others that have gone before them. Most designers will admit to this. And to those who will deny this, they call coincidence.

[powerabout]

how about the first guy?

[T2x]

how about the first guy?


Who? Ray Hunt....? Nahh... He doesn't count. He never took the time to "inform us" about his designs through massive PR campaigns like some others. Sadly, it's perception, not innovation that rules.

[GENE LANHAM]

Still believe Sonny was the original and Aranow was the copier.

should get Willa. Out from under the sheets

.

Aronow was very good. So good, he hired great people: Abbey, Walters, Wynne, Chapman, Schoell, Seebold-----

(So sorry, Bill W.)

[jackie wilson]

Aronow was very good. So good, he hired great people: Abbey, Walters, Wynne, Chapman, Schoell, Seebold-----

(So sorry, Bill W.) I know full well it was "ARONOW" Gene, but that was my first time with an ipad----saw the screw up and couldn't find a way to correct it.
All ok now though----my 6 year old great grandson showed me a few tricks with the damn thing.

[T2x]

Aronow was very good. So good, he hired great people: Abbey, Walters, Wynne, Chapman, Schoell, Seebold-----

(So sorry, Bill W.)

Gene....point taken, but, in truth, Aronow gets major credit for building the sport of Offshore racing, when in fact it was "Uncle Carl" who played the most important part. If you think back to the early days Bertram , Formula, Glastron, Vega, Sea Craft, Eltro etc, they all played a part from the boat building side, but it was Kiekhaefer who built the fleets, powered the majority of hulls and developed the powerplants and drives that pulled the sport up by its boot straps. Aronow was smart, competitive, and a shrewd judge of talent, no doubt, but at his core he was a marketing genius, and a wonderful self promoter. Had he not come along when he did, i doubt that the state of the art would have been impacted much, if at all. In the grand scheme, it was the vee hull, the engines and SSM's, the bigger outboards, pad bottoms, the cats, and the props that changed the world as we knew it.

I may be wrong but neither Don nor Reggie (two driven and talented individuals without question) deserve the overwhelming accolades that they have garnered over the years. Perhaps no one does, but if you had to pick one person at the core of performance boating...that guy has to be Carl Kiekhaefer IMHO.

[powerabout]

I couldnt agree more T2x

[lilabner]

When it started, there was no Aronow, or Kiekhaefer. Just a bunch of guys with big egos, like Sam Griffith and Bertram, and Abbey and a few others. But if it wasn't for Red Crise there probably would never have been Offshore Racing, at least as we know it today.

[T2x]

When it started, there was no Aronow, or Kiekhaefer. Just a bunch of guys with big egos, like Sam Griffith and Bertram, and Abbey and a few others. But if it wasn't for Red Crise there probably would never have been Offshore Racing, at least as we know it today.

Red Crise..fathered Offshore racing...in the southeast and Caribbean...he had nothing to do with the northeast, West coast, European races and the Pacific rim. Sam Griffith, Bertram, Abbey etc all deserve some credit, but boat racing had marathons before those guys came along and simply moved the concept Offshore. Again without Kiekhaefer's budget, engineering, and vision the powerplants that built grass roots boat racing (of all kinds), would have been severely restricted and the price point considerably higher for young, developing boat racers.

[lilabner]

Rich, I would never dispute you. (Majority of the time). Whenever you have two of anything, those two guys want to race. Logs were probably first. My point was as John Crouse put it: Red Crise..Father of Modern Era..

[Powercat]

On the west coast in the early 50's many local boat clubs would have group outings. One was held as a family cruise to Catalina Island on Saturday, and return on Sunday, a round trip of over 50 miles in the open Pacific ocean. After the first couple of years
they decided to give a trophy for the quickest return trip on Sunday and that soon became the focus of the event. The family
cruise went by the wayside and a full on offshore race resulted. When my parents entered the first Power Cat cabin cruiser in
this and ran the fastest time recorded with a pair of 33hp Scott's for power the demand that grew from that was the beginning
of the Power Cat Boat company.

When it started, there was no Aronow, or Kiekhaefer. Just a bunch of guys with big egos, like Sam Griffith and Bertram, and Abbey and a few others. But if it wasn't for Red Crise there probably would never have been Offshore Racing, at least as we know it today.

[willabee]

...... Whenever you have two of anything, those two guys want to race. Logs were probably first.

Ain't that the truth! My parents used to take the family to a resort in northern Wisconsin for a week or two every summer. You rented a cottage on the lake and received the use of a wooden rowboat during your stay. Us kids used to row all over that lake and my Dad used it to go fishing. Soon he got tired of rowing and bought a 5 hp Merc that he'd haul up there every year (the only time it got used each year).

I must have been about 9 at the time and he taught me how to run the Merc. I was hooked, any time that boat went anywhere I was the driver. I just loved driving that thing until some kid with a 10 hp Johnson passed me up. I started trying to figure out how to go faster. I'd make sure all the water was drained out before launching. Any equipment we weren't going to used I'd put in the cottage. I'd make my younger brother sit on the rear bench with me when I saw that Johnson coming. Lastly, I started bugging my Dad that we needed a bigger motor. So the euphoric novelty of going from oars to gasoline lasted until someone was going faster ..... it's been like that ever since. :D

[powerabout]

it all started with a bloke an icecream and his girl

[T2x]

Actually it was Noah who was racing to get away from that horrible smell coming from below decks.

[lilabner]

:thumbsup: Noah wins.........

[lilabner]

While on the subject of credit where credit is due, what't the big hang-up of Mr. Kiekhaefer getting into the Nascar Hall of Fame? I think he should have been one of the first..

[velox]

I guess what you think of people depends on your interface and personal experience of that person.
I have three different takes on Carl, Crise and Aronow.
To people that worked under Carl he was a God. He took young guys and had them race some finest boats in existence. To those that did not work for Car,l he was a demon and was rude , crude and abusive. If he lost he always found a way to protest. It was Carl and his guys, against the world. His guys were some of the finest people that I ever met in boat racing. This is very unusual as most of the time people tend to emulate the "guy in charge". The lake X guys were always polite and gentlemen in spite of Carl.
Red Crise was a BS artist and ultimate promoter. He was not only the promoter of the Miami Nassau race he promoted the Nassau auto races, which in its day was a big thing.
I was a young guy and very naive when I attended the Miami to Nassau pre race meeting. Someone got up and asked why there was no prize money. Red in his puffed up persona said, "when we get $250,000 I will personally match that number for a prize of $500,000. Until then there will be no prize money." I was standing next to Merrick Lewis the owner of Alliance Machinery. He was a multi millionaire but 250K back then was a ton of money.
Merrick looked over at one of his people and gave a slight nod of his head. The Merrick guy raised his hand and said, "Merrick industries will put up $250,000 so we can have a prize of $500 K."
Red was called, and there was total silence in the room. After about 5 seconds Red said. "OK great, next year we will have a 500K prize." Everybody in the room booed and complained . To Red it was like water off of a ducks back. After the meeting I told Merrick, I could not believe he put of a quarter of a million in an instant.
He told me, I did not put up anything. My people have done a background check on Crise and he does not have a pot to piss in, so I knew he was FOS and would not be able to match the money. I just wanted everyone to see how phony he was.
Bertram started the VEE hull sport fishing boats. When they tested the very first boat everyone was surprised at how the boat came out of the water and planed going very fast.
Jim Wynn came up with the outdrive concept and tried to sell it to Carl. Carl would not have any part of the outdrive so Wynn hooked up with Volvo Penta.
Aronow came on the scene and copied the Bertram concept with a much slimmer/smaller design.
He was a great promoter, but not a engineer. Jim Wynn put his outdrive on a Aronow boat and did pretty good. Once Wynn's outdrive was successful, Carl was forced to get into the outdrive business. Carl was forced to get his outdrive on the market so fast, they were real poor and sometimes lasted only a couple of hours before blowing up, but thats another story. Over the years Aronow continued to start boat companies and sell them. He was a big part of Offshore racing, but it would have continued and prospered without him.
I never really knew Aronow, but he seemed like an up-right guy and a real mans-man. He was rugged handsome and bigger than life.
One time after he won a big Ocean race (I think it was Miami to Key west) He stopped off at the Bikini Club.
He was drinking and bragging about how fast their boats were. I challenged him to race our little outboard Glastron with twin Mercs. We could go about 65 MPH max and left him in our wake. At the time the offshore guys were trying to say their boats would go 75 mph when they would go about 55 or so.

[jackie wilson]

Charlie---Ain't that the truth, Somebody said a long time ago that they were doing 30+ down the back straight-------[they were actually doing around 25], this has gone on down the ages 'till we are approaching the 200 mark and will continue to do so until we are around 500 mark.
It happens every time a fisherman tells the tale of a whale that got away!!!!!!!!
Ask any outboard geek how many horses he has under the hood??? ---the minute his lips move , you know he's lying.
Even athletes in training tell of the 50 gruelling miles they did this morning---in the rain,---against the wind---and with a broken leg !!!!!!!
It's said in the annals that Adam told Eve he had 8-----------it's still going on to this day.

[lilabner]

The old addage: The older I get, the faster I was..

[seeroy]

Wrote this little blurb in the initial post of the "Life at Lake X in the 60s". Ain't it the truth! - Steve Sirois

If there is one thing I have learned in my life as a former boat racer, fisherman and fighter pilot; it is that boat racers, fishermen and fighter pilots are the greatest liars in the world. I especially know that is true about boat racers because we would always run every race boat through the measured kilo at Lake X many times as we tried new things and as Don Schwebbs banged on our props. We always knew exactly how fast our boats were running before we left the lake. The only significant variables were fuel loads, water conditions and whether we were running in salt water. SOOOOO...you would not believe how many times somebody at a race site would tell me that they were running at 75mph and I would walk past them in an absolute 62mph boat.

[shadowcat]

-poker run radar runs allowed 2 passes for the guys because after the first run most had excuses and those were gone after the 2nd try

[RogerH]

-poker run radar runs allowed 2 passes for the guys because after the first run most had excuses and those were gone after the 2nd try
There's a reason why I don't carry a GPS in the Molinari at events! Ignorance is bliss!

[T2x]

There's a reason why I don't carry a GPS in the Molinari at events! Ignorance is bliss!

I have GPS in the wing (lest I exceed take off speed)... I have clocked you on many occasions and you ain't all that ignorant! :D

[T2x]

.you would not believe how many times somebody at a race site would tell me that they were running at 75mph and I would walk past them in an absolute 62mph boat.

Today they'll tell you that they are running over 100..and you will still walk past them at 62.... :)

[jackie wilson]

Today they'll tell you that they are running over 100..and you will still walk past them at 62.... :)
Just goes to prove, 'THE BIGGEST LIARS TODAY, AND YESTERDAY, AND TOMORROW, ALWAYS WERE ,AND ALWAYS WILL BE----- BOAT RACERS'!!!!!!
We leave fighter pilots and fishermen a long way back. Eat your hearts out all you "Wannabees".

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Well, I had lots of chances to lie but rarely did. I came home from a race in Florida one time with a 3rd place trophy. First thing my dad ask me was 'how many boats in the race?' Now I could have easily said 6, 8 or 10. But, I told it like it was.......3.

[Sidney073]

I came home one time with a 3rd place trophy in a race, Lawnmower - not boat (we never lie!), the trophy guy printed the label with the racers name on it. When I got home my wifes questions were: 1) How did you do? I showed her the trophy. 2) Ha Ha When did you order this? I told her they printed the label at the event. 3) How many were in the race? 11 or 12, I didn't count! Now --- Omission isn't actually lying --- there were ONLY 3 racers left running at the Checkered!

[shadowcat]

Jackie- I think that is a little HARSH!- ask a fisherman how big a fish he caught !!!!!!!!!!

[jackie wilson]

Jackie- I think that is a little HARSH!- ask a fisherman how big a fish he caught !!!!!!!!!!

OK. Point taken--------but percentage wise ----i still think the boating boys have it.

Never heard of a 62MPH fish yet----let's ask a fisher boy.

[jackie wilson]

Hey WILLA, your 'Hot Singles ' really turned to s-it didn't it.???

[willabee]

Hey WILLA, your 'Hot Singles ' really turned to s-it didn't it.???

...... who is this that appears to be fishin' for a big problem?

[intimidatorboats]

whitton

[STEVERINO]

Hey WILLA, your 'Hot Singles ' really turned to s-it didn't it.??? Hi Jackie let me take your memory back a few years 38YRS this next weekend to the Amsterdam 3hr race 1974 Mercury sent most of their top US drivers and some european drivers too the US drivers all had new T3 engines and new Molinari boats the first with Dyhedral tunnels` seams like yesterday i had a new son 3 days old` he was 38 yesterday i think this may have been the first year they moved the race from the river Amstel to the Docks i remember it well boy was it ever rough water.I remember OMC sending Paul Kalb from the US to take over from Jim Wagner as head of OMC factory racing in Brugge it was his first time at a european race most of the new Mercury Powered boats were wrecked but i do think a Mercury engine won` and before the end of the race GG had Molinari on a plane262071 heading home to Italy he had 6 weeks to build some more boats for the Paris 6hr race.SP

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Hmmm, I seem to remember this race, maybe it was 1975 when Alf Bullen won with a Burgess/Johnson. Same race that James Beard ran the "reverse tunnel" or Mod-VP or whatever that thing was. Kinda looked like a Quartermaster.

[Old fiberglass]

I have a question and this might be slightly off topic.....but I figured Willabee and others here might know the answer. Question is about the engine cover in the pictures was it something Mercury supported racers used or was it sold by dealers. The front emblem says Twister in blue lettering. I have never seen one before. Any ideas or thoughts ??

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/TwisterBag-aa.jpg

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/TwisterBag.jpg

[jackie wilson]

Hmmm, I seem to remember this race, maybe it was 1975 when Alf Bullen won with a Burgess/Johnson. Same race that James Beard ran the "reverse tunnel" or Mod-VP or whatever that thing was. Kinda looked like a Quartermaster.
Can't for the life of me remember if Alfie EVER won a circuit race anywhere--------He was 'Huger' then, than Bentz is now !!!!!!! somewhere between 2 and 3 hundred pounds.
He was more into offshore than closed circuit.
Hell of a character, and was a much loved gentle villain.
Wonder if the MOD VP referred to is the old submarine 'HUMMING BIRD' ???

[peterse90]

Wonder if the MOD VP referred to is the old submarine 'HUMMING BIRD' ???

Is this the 'HUMMING BIRD' 262138 you are referring to ?

[STEVERINO]

Can't for the life of me remember if Alfie EVER won a circuit race anywhere--------He was 'Huger' then, than Bentz is now !!!!!!! somewhere between 2 and 3 hundred pounds.
He was more into offshore than closed circuit.
Hell of a character, and was a much loved gentle villain.
Wonder if the MOD VP referred to is the old submarine 'HUMMING BIRD' ??? Please let me refresh your memory here Jackie`take a seat for a few moments rest your feet` like you said Alf Bullen was a character his nickname Wicked Alf he even named a raceboat after himself he resided in Dulwhich eats London had friends from the London underworld.He could be most charming and loved racing boats like you said Offshore raceboats at first he started racing Mercury powered circuit boats in 1968 a good friend of mine and teamate at OMC we raced a Molinari together in Paris 1977 he did win the Amsterdam 3hr race in 1976 with the same Burgess boat that you and Alfi entered in the Paris 6hr race in 1978. I know the Engine Blew and you never had the chance to drive that boat .I did drive that boat and got a good result in holland with it and finished 2nd to Molinari in a new 16ft sprint boat so it was a capable outfit maybe it could have won with you and Alfi driving in Paris?Now there`s a good discusion in there somewhere.Just 1 question in 1969 Mercury had at least 14 of their latest race engines in the UK how come in 1970 they had only 2262182

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Yep the Humming Bird...that is the boat. Anyone know how far back and how deep that center pod section was that the driver is sitting in? They were trying to get a handle on blow overs but in rough water it did just the opposite.

I would think it would not corner well if it was like a Mod-VP. Thinking that it ran on two points down the straight like a tunnel.

[jackie wilson]

Yep the Humming Bird...that is the boat. Anyone know how far back and how deep that center pod section was that the driver is sitting in? They were trying to get a handle on blow overs but in rough water it did just the opposite.

I would think it would not corner well if it was like a Mod-VP. Thinking that it ran on two points down the straight like a tunnel.
Did answer this question before-----but it got lost in the maze that is technology, so i will try again.

Firstly THAT craft is NOT the HUmming Bird !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The hummer was a green MONO hull that famously submarined for 150 metres beneath the Pont D'ienna in Paris.
The yellow 'Gordons Gin' was one of James's "LATHAM SPECIALS"!!!!!
Made a brief appearance at Fairford-----handled like a rabid dog---it may have raced somewhere----but i never saw it again.


BIG HIGH FIVES AND MANY CONGRATULATIONS WILLA ON THE QUARTER MILLION HITS ON WHAT MUST SURELY BE THE MOST WATCHED THREAD EVER ON S&F. GOD -----BUT THAT HURT !!!!!!!!!!!!

[jackie wilson]

Please let me refresh your memory here Jackie`take a seat for a few moments rest your feet` like you said Alf Bullen was a character his nickname Wicked Alf he even named a raceboat after himself he resided in Dulwhich eats London had friends from the London underworld.He could be most charming and loved racing boats like you said Offshore raceboats at first he started racing Mercury powered circuit boats in 1968 a good friend of mine and teamate at OMC we raced a Molinari together in Paris 1977 he did win the Amsterdam 3hr race in 1976 with the same Burgess boat that you and Alfi entered in the Paris 6hr race in 1978. I know the Engine Blew and you never had the chance to drive that boat .I did drive that boat and got a good result in holland with it and finished 2nd to Molinari in a new 16ft sprint boat so it was a capable outfit maybe it could have won with you and Alfi driving in Paris?Now there`s a good discusion in there somewhere.Just 1 question in 1969 Mercury had at least 14 of their latest race engines in the UK how come in 1970 they had only 2262182 Wrong again Steve-----there were three engines delivered to Pat Frewer at South Western Marine. The first one was for me-------Ridgell came over from Italy and collected number two-------Leo took one to Holland for Cees.

[jackiewilson]

Please let me refresh your memory here Jackie`take a seat for a few moments rest your feet` like you said Alf Bullen was a character his nickname Wicked Alf he even named a raceboat after himself he resided in Dulwhich eats London had friends from the London underworld.He could be most charming and loved racing boats like you said Offshore raceboats at first he started racing Mercury powered circuit boats in 1968 a good friend of mine and teamate at OMC we raced a Molinari together in Paris 1977 he did win the Amsterdam 3hr race in 1976 with the same Burgess boat that you and Alfi entered in the Paris 6hr race in 1978. I know the Engine Blew and you never had the chance to drive that boat .I did drive that boat and got a good result in holland with it and finished 2nd to Molinari in a new 16ft sprint boat so it was a capable outfit maybe it could have won with you and Alfi driving in Paris?Now there`s a good discusion in there somewhere.Just 1 question in 1969 Mercury had at least 14 of their latest race engines in the UK how come in 1970 they had only 2262182. Alfie was a fruit and nut case of the highest order.
Gave him £350. For fuel for the race, didn't get a ride as the rig fell apart after 20 mins. Last I saw of my money''!!!!!!'
Alf decided he would give the world a disappointment dinner and invited all my family and his to a gourmet dinner at the Hilton in Paris.
We had a fuLl seven courses with champers to swill it down
Then Alfie calls for the humidor and a bottle of Napoleons best.
Then he drops his little bombshell-------OK everyone, exit left, we're gonna do a runner.
Both his wives said at the same time, Alfie you bast-rd, you wouldn't, But he did.
Both wives caught a taxi to Calais and made safe passage to The uk.
The twins beat it to rave on the left bank.
Andy disappeared into the gents and was not seen 'till the following Wednesday.
Wife and I hit the ballroom and danced 'till 5 AM, before we were thrown out, the band had gone home some time ago.
I have never ever allowed Alfie to buy me even a bag of fish and chips since then.

That was 40 years ago . Even to this day, If I see a Gendarme I cross over the street, just in case.

Yeah, Alfie was a great character ------- but at arms length.


One day , I will tell you tale of how he smuggled twenty Pakistanis into Dover in the hull of an offshore boat belonging to a very famous general, but they nailed him that time, You know how and why Steve???

[velox]

Jackie, your stoty reminds me of a guy that hung around the S Florida racing scene in the early 60's.
I went to a race somewere north of Miami and checked into a motel. My friend Richie Baiz was there when I got to the motel and introduced me to Ray Barnett. The next AM Ray invited about 20 people to his room for breakfast on his tab.
After I got home I got a bill for the breakfast. It seems Ray was a professional Con-Man and memorized my signature and signed the check with my room number and signiture. It was so good I could not tell the difference. I understand he went away to "summer camp" several times before he croaked.

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Now that's a funny story right there Jackie. Alf had two wives? LOL!!!

Was James Beard the man behind Cougar tunnels?

[jackie wilson]

Now that's a funny story right there Jackie. Alf had two wives? LOL!!!

Was James Beard the man behind Cougar tunnels?

Alf had A regular wife, Anne i think her name was , and a long time girl friend who was always wifey 2. The arrangement seem to work perfectly.!!!!!!!!

James was the Brains------------Clive could brush a good broom-----------Hodges was the designer before he went out on his own.

[jackie wilson]

Jackie, your stoty reminds me of a guy that hung around the S Florida racing scene in the early 60's.
I went to a race somewere north of Miami and checked into a motel. My friend Richie Baiz was there when I got to the motel and introduced me to Ray Barnett. The next AM Ray invited about 20 people to his room for breakfast on his tab.
After I got home I got a bill for the breakfast. It seems Ray was a professional Con-Man and memorized my signature and signed the check with my room number and signiture. It was so good I could not tell the difference. I understand he went away to "summer camp" several times before he croaked.

Had a similar thing happen to me whilst attending a race at Campioni, [ a small Italian Province inside Switzerland ] .
Kept getting rather large bar bills i knew nothing about-----went to the manager and sorted it. Was a guy called Buddy Babbet who was loading my bill. Have always been on the lookout for the little sh-t, but so far no luck.!!!!!!

[MN4V]

I have a question and this might be slightly off topic.....but I figured Willabee and others here might know the answer. Question is about the engine cover in the pictures was it something Mercury supported racers used or was it sold by dealers. The front emblem says Twister in blue lettering. I have never seen one before. Any ideas or thoughts ??

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/TwisterBag-aa.jpg

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/TwisterBag.jpg




I had some of those decals. Not sure where I got them, maybe a boat show in Chicago.
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/MN392/TwisterPower.jpg Mark N

[willabee]

..... Question is about the engine cover in the pictures was it something Mercury supported racers used or was it sold by dealers. The front emblem says Twister in blue lettering. I have never seen one before. Any ideas or thoughts ??
http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/TwisterBag.jpg

I think that cover was something someone did on their own. Racing and Hi Perf. Products didn't have them. I doubt a dealer would have made a bunch of them for resale. The blue is Twister I, a 71/72 engine. The cover in the picture says "Kiekhaefer Mercury" ..... Mr. K was gone in 1970 and everything changed to "Mercury Marine" shortly thereafter. Merc would not have made something in 71/72 with "Kiekhaefer" on it.

I know something about that cover, I just can't remember what it is that I know! :o

[jackie wilson]

Yeah !!! yeah !!!!!!!! yeah, Typical Willa--------a mine of information, in a mind that forgot where it came from and can't remember where it goes, but sure as God made little apples -----if it' anything to do with any product out of OSHBERGLAC it's in there somewhere.
Real glad i'm not that fuddled----------Keep taking the tablets William---------there may be hope somewhere down the line for you. Me !!!! way past it long ago----just the facts man----nothing but the facts-------------STILL SAY I WON THE 1970 PARIS 6 HOURS-----Just can't remember where it was at ???????

[willabee]

Yeah !!! yeah !!!!!!!! yeah, Typical Willa--------a mine of information, in a mind that forgot where it came from and can't remember where it goes, but sure as God made little apples -----if it' anything to do with any product out of OSHBERGLAC it's in there somewhere.
Real glad i'm not that fuddled----------Keep taking the tablets William---------there may be hope somewhere down the line for you. Me !!!! way past it long ago----just the facts man----nothing but the facts-------------STILL SAY I WON THE 1970 PARIS 6 HOURS-----Just can't remember where it was at ???????

I can close my eyes and see a twin with those engines covers. I might even be pulling the draw string on one as someone is securing the other. I just can't see who's boat it is or who I am talking to as we finish the job.

Surely that has happened to you once or twice. I bet when you close your eyes, you see yourself accepting a large trophy with the Eiffel Tower on it, you just can't figure out which race it might be from. :o

[GENE LANHAM]

I think that cover was something someone did on their own. Racing and Hi Perf. Products didn't have them. I doubt a dealer would have made a bunch of them for resale. The blue is Twister I, a 71/72 engine. The cover in the picture says "Kiekhaefer Mercury" ..... Mr. K was gone in 1970 and everything changed to "Mercury Marine" shortly thereafter. Merc would not have made something in 71/72 with "Kiekhaefer" on it.

I know something about that cover, I just can't remember what it is that I know! :o

I was looking in the 'closet' for that orange waterski jacket, and found this----1971??

http://i48.tinypic.com/2drtbvl.jpg

[jackie wilson]

I can close my eyes and see a twin with those engines covers. I might even be pulling the draw string on one as someone is securing the other. I just can't see who's boat it is or who I am talking to as we finish the job.

Surely that has happened to you once or twice. I bet when you close your eyes, you see yourself accepting a large trophy with the Eiffel Tower on it, you just can't figure out which race it might be from. :o

WHAT'S AN "EIFFEL TOWER" ????? Thought it was some sort of scaffolding !!!!!!!!!

[T2x]

WHAT'S AN "EIFFEL TOWER" ????? Thought it was some sort of scaffolding !!!!!!!!!

No, no, no Jackie....... That's the "I Fell " tower.

[jackie wilson]

Willa !!!!!!!! Back to the motor cover!!!!!! Remember the grey haired old guy with the specs, that came out of California, DICK SHEARER, Jesus but he was OLD-OLD. Even older than me ----and by a long chalk, but nowhere near as pretty and modest as myself !!!!!!
The cover is just his sort of stamp----he was a bit flash-----DEAN MOON was making everything for boats and autos including custom jackets and covers for any thing. I remember his catalogue-------at least two foot thick and a thousand pages, it's just the sort of thing that would have lit his candle.
"SMITTY" took me to his shop in the early seventies-------it was MOON everything. Just asking---that's all---don't get snotty !!!!!!!

[jackie wilson]

no, no, no jackie....... That's the "i fell " tower.

hoof---ell-------------thought it was 'hoof hearted'
then came hoo was on won ???????????

[jackie wilson]

I tell ya , Willa is Gonna have a ****ty fitty over this Rich.

[T2x]

I tell ya , Willa is Gonna have a ****ty fitty over this Rich.
Jackie: Will we see you at OFF?

[STEVERINO]

Wrong again Steve-----there were three engines delivered to Pat Frewer at South Western Marine. The first one was for me-------Ridgell came over from Italy and collected number two-------Leo took one to Holland for Cees.Jackie relax put your feet up for a few minutes and see if you can remember this it was a long time ago I can remember Bill Shakespeare having a twister 1 engine for the 1970 Chasewater 500mile race but he also had a Johnson engine too and entered 2 boats`Drivers (Bill Shakepeare /Bernard Michell)`1 outfit and( Steve Pinson/Peter Thorney work)the other` told PORKY`S to both OMC and MERCURY said he wanted to see which went the best?.Bernard Michell flew the Johnson powered outfit and the Twister 1 engine didnt last.After the race Mercury removed their engine and gave it to our friend Freddi Miles.You Jackie should remember this race you and Rossi won it in a orange or maybe red Molinari? :)

[jackie wilson]

[QUOTE=T2x;2371531]Jackie: Will we see you at OFF?[/QUOTE

Would love to be there Rich, but when we did the Canada/USA trip in June, we decided to give the OFF a miss this year.We have to come over in November for my grand daughter Louise's wedding, so to come over in October as well, would have been just a tad much. [it's Jilly you know, getting on a bit and hasn't got the stamina she used to have]!!!!!!!!

[jackiewilson]

Jackie relax put your feet up for a few minutes and see if you can remember this it was a long time ago I can remember Bill Shakespeare having a twister 1 engine for the 1970 Chasewater 500mile race but he also had a Johnson engine too and entered 2 boats`Drivers (Bill Shakepeare /Bernard Michell)`1 outfit and( Steve Pinson/Peter Thorney work)the other` told PORKY`S to both OMC and MERCURY said he wanted to see which went the best?.Bernard Michell flew the Johnson powered outfit and the Twister 1 engine didnt last.After the race Mercury removed their engine and gave it to our friend Freddi Miles.You Jackie should remember this race you and Rossi won it in a orange or maybe red Molinari? :)

Since Shakey won the Paris race and Mr. K. Himself presented him with the first black widow as a gift, All the Mercury secret sh-t made it's way through the side door of SWMF direct to Tewkesbury.
Shakey started to play both ends against the middle when Bob Glenn sweet talked him into running the Jonrood-------Wasn't long before he didn't know his arse from his elbow------or whether he wanted a crap or a haircut. Something had to give----.Mercury took away his toy.
I had won most of the nationals and a couple of internationals. Combination of Mercury. Hi--perf backing and a brand new 17 ft. Molinari Sprint----Don Ross as co-driver, meant that we were damn near untouchable.
The Chasewater 500 was in place of the 24 hour race, the race was in the bag after the first 10 laps------- OMC had no answer to the silo and it ran like clockwork all the way home.

Rossi was given the last hours drive ,, GG was hopping up and down wanting to put Molinari in for the last hour------- I wasn't about to allow that to happen.
That was when GG decided he was going to pair Renato and me together for the 1970 Paris race that we won but never did-----------'nuff said--------it's finished.

[T2x]

[QUOTE=T2x;2371531]Jackie: Will we see you at OFF?[/QUOTE

Would love to be there Rich, but when we did the Canada/USA trip in June, we decided to give the OFF a miss this year.We have to come over in November for my grand daughter Louise's wedding, so to come over in October as well, would have been just a tad much. [it's Jilly you know, getting on a bit and hasn't got the stamina she used to have]!!!!!!!!

VERY Sorry to hear that........ As Steve S. is fond of saying the days are getting shorter and the time we have to get together and relive the glory days is more than precious.


You will be missed...... not by me of course....but certainly somebody will notice your absence. :D

[jackie wilson]

[QUOTE=jackie wilson;2371707]

VERY Sorry to hear that........ As Steve S. is fond of saying the days are getting shorter and the time we have to get together and relive the glory days is more than precious.


You will be missed...... not by me of course....but certainly somebody will notice your absence. :D

Thanks a lot Rich, knew damn well you wouldn't miss me at all-----i'll accept you would "notice my absence" !!!!!! It's one of the few times i really enjoy seeing all the friends i made over the years and reminding myself what a great life this is-------meeting the legends that were powerboating itself in the 60's/70's.
Never would have met Stavros and "The Hauser" ---Johnny Bakos------"VELOX"---T2X and all the magic names Pruett used to wax lyrical on. None the less----a good time will be had by all------Just wish Stickle could persuade Welch [Willabee to most of you] to haul his sorry arse out of downtown Ohio [wherever the hell that is] and shoot the breeze with all of you for a couple of days. Y'know he's not a bad old fart at the end of the day-------he just gets a tad mixed up nowadays-----but he is a mine of Merc. history-------JUST THE FACTS MAAM---JUST THE FACTS !!!!!!! What was the name of that damn detective ????????Jack ???????????something or other. Help me out here Willa.

[Bob V]

JUST THE FACTS MAAM---JUST THE FACTS !!!!!!! What was the name of that damn detective ????????Jack ???????????something or other.

The Joe Friday character was played by Jack Webb on Dragnet...

[velox]

I will miss you Jackie. There are not too many times there is someone that is older, uglier and louder than I.
You have been one of the highlites of OFF for the past 3 years!
At least send your son and G kids to represent you.

[jackie wilson]

I will miss you Jackie. There are not too many times there is someone that is older, uglier and louder than I.
You have been one of the highlites of OFF for the past 3 years!
At least send your son and G kids to represent you.

Think Mark and Craig are doing a "thing" for the OFF type people !!! at the shop in Stuart sometime over the weekend------------and it;s only YOUR opinion----i may be older-------i may be louder-----but there is no way on Gods earth i could be that ugly.

[STEVERINO]

Hey WILLA, your 'Hot Singles ' really turned to s-it didn't it.??? Anybody recognise this boat and who is driving?262539

[jackiewilson]

The Joe Friday character was played by Jack Webb on Dragnet...

Always liked watching Jack Friday whilst dragging the net??????????
Are you older than me Bob?????

[T2x]

Age test.......

Captain Video's job.........
Captain Midnight's sponsor.........
"but most of all I remember......."
We're known from Maine to Mexico, we are the men of .............
Holy mackerel there Andy, I got ta get home to my wife ..............
Sid...........and Imogene.........
"plunk your magic twanger.........."

[Bob V]

Always liked watching Jack Friday whilst dragging the net??????????
Are you older than me Bob?????

Not quite, but I am rapidly catching up to you. I will be at the 60 mark in the blink of an eye!

[seeroy]

Age test.......

Captain Video's job.........
Captain Midnight's sponsor.........
"but most of all I remember.YOU......"
We're known from Maine to Mexico, we are the men of TEXACO
Holy mackerel there Andy, I got ta get home to my wife KINGFISH OF "AMOS & ANDY..............
Sid..CEASER.........and Imogene..COCA......
"plunk your magic twanger...FROGGY......."

How about " Princess S....R, ...., ......, S....G

[jackie wilson]

Stavros and Bobby V and all those who have been messing with the "WILLA's thread, be careful walking under seagulls, watch out for stray 'nana' skins-----he himself will be ordering all things mortal and even 'imm. to piddle on your heads from dizzy heights,for the total abuse of his beloved "HOT SINGLES" thread.
Bugger "PRINCESS S.....R----,----S----G What about TLR + T. + Say goodnight to the people !!!!!!!! OH SH-T YOU'VE DONE IT NOW BUTLER !!!!!!!!

[seeroy]

I cannot tell a lie.................Rich Did It! :rolleyes:

[Old fiberglass]

Bill Owen posted this picture on FaceBook. Below is what he wrote. Thought maybe some folks might know a little bit more about this boat. I recall watching the Johhny Player F1 cars racing at Watkins Glen back in ~1978. Guess they were big into racing back then.

Bill Owen - " Sorry about the quality of the pic but I came across this ex John player special Velden in a showroom in Torrevieija Spain whilst on holiday last week. Must be from about 1977 I think. It ended up in the hands of a Belgian Driver. What a find "


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/JohnnyPlayer.jpg

[T2x]

How about " Princess S....R, ...., ......, S....G
Princess summer fall winter spring.......and her nemesis. M....R B.....R.

[seeroy]

Mister Bluster

[jackie wilson]

Bill Owen posted this picture on FaceBook. Below is what he wrote. Thought maybe some folks might know a little bit more about this boat. I recall watching the Johhny Player F1 cars racing at Watkins Glen back in ~1978. Guess they were big into racing back then.

Bill Owen - " Sorry about the quality of the pic but I came across this ex John player special Velden in a showroom in Torrevieija Spain whilst on holiday last week. Must be from about 1977 I think. It ended up in the hands of a Belgian Driver. What a find "


http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/RetroBoats/Boats/JohnnyPlayer.jpg

If it;s a Belgian boat Danny Birtles would know who owned it------------Top Belgian in his day was ANDRE DIERXE-----may not have spelled his name correctly ----------Factory driver early 70's.

[T2x]

Mister Bluster

I understand in England that character was played by Jackie....... :D

[jackie wilson]

I understand in England that character was played by Jackie....... :D

Impossible !!!!!!!!! He never made it this side of the pond.
Any relation to General Cluster ????? [usually played by another fellow Englishman ERROL FLYNN ] !!!!!!!!!

[mister h]

Anybody recognise this boat and who is driving?262539 Looks very much like a Molinari to me` i am going to guess at mr Don Ross doing his victory lap at Chasewater UK with 2nd place driver.He had also won the river Thames race in a Molinari the year before this.He was a very nice gentleman well respected by all the other drivers drank tea all the time while telling tall stories?.

[STEVERINO]

:):)
Hey WILLA, your 'Hot Singles ' really turned to s-it didn't it.??? Paris 6hr maybe`1971/1972 just trying to keep the old minds alert wouldn`t want them to fall asleep like Jackies does sometimes.
262720

[jackiewilson]

:):) Paris 6hr maybe`1971/1972 just trying to keep the old minds alert wouldn`t want them to fall asleep like Jackies does sometimes.
262720
Who,s kidding who here Steve. Didn't you race MISTER H?

[STEVERINO]

Can't for the life of me remember if Alfie EVER won a circuit race anywhere--------He was 'Huger' then, than Bentz is now !!!!!!! somewhere between 2 and 3 hundred pounds.
He was more into offshore than closed circuit.
Hell of a character, and was a much loved gentle villain.
Wonder if the MOD VP referred to is the old submarine 'HUMMING BIRD' ??? I think Hummingbird was one of the first circiut race boats from the Clive Curtis and James Beard along with Chris Hodges team or to be known as Couger Marine it was a 16ft Levi deep v bare hull from M/M hulls and Chris Hodges designed his own deck and streamlined rear cowling always raced with Omc power .After the boat submarined Clive had metal deflectors fitted either side of the nose to try to prevent it happening again? I can remember racing against this boat at the Chasewater 24hr race in 1968 and having a slight coming together of boats in the middle of the night neither driver could see the distant turn buoy which had a light on the top of it which had nearly gone out.Weird experiece driving a race boat through the night with lights like candles can`t see any wakes or waves just grip the wheel hard and hang on. I can remember Mercury sending 2 new 1250bp engines for this race and one of them won it.263311

[jackie wilson]

I think Hummingbird was one of the first circiut race boats from the Clive Curtis and James Beard along with Chris Hodges team or to be known as Couger Marine it was a 16ft Levi deep v bare hull from M/M hulls and Chris Hodges designed his own deck and streamlined rear cowling always raced with Omc power .After the boat submarined Clive had metal deflectors fitted either side of the nose to try to prevent it happening again? I can remember racing against this boat at the Chasewater 24hr race in 1968 and having a slight coming together of boats in the middle of the night neither driver could see the distant turn buoy which had a light on the top of it which had nearly gone out.Weird experiece driving a race boat through the night with lights like candles can`t see any wakes or waves just grip the wheel hard and hang on. I can remember Mercury sending 2 new 1250bp engines for this race and one of them won it.263311 1968 ----was bye bye time for Vee bottoms----they were dead in the water and were only used in smaller classes. Only Charlie Sheppard continued with the 16' Vee's.

[STEVERINO]

1968 ----was bye bye time for Vee bottoms----they were dead in the water and were only used in smaller classes. Only Charlie Sheppard continued with the 16' Vee's. Jackie i can remember Don Ross and yourself winning the Amsterdam race in 1969 with a 1250sbp in a Levi 16 v hull and Charlie Shepherd had his 1st 16ft cat out in 1968 Soggy Moggy won its class in the Paris 6hr race.If you thought the Milesmaster Cats were poor you should have drove one of Charlie`s Cats i drove them both?

[T2x]

Age test.......

Captain Video's job.........Spaceman
Captain Midnight's sponsor.........Ovaltine
"but most of all I remember Mama"
We're known from Maine to Mexico, we are the men of Texaco
Holy mackerel there Andy, I got ta get home to my wife Sapphire
Sid Caeser and Imogene Coca
"plunk your magic twanger Froggy"

Steve got some of them correct......

[jackie wilson]

Jackie i can remember Don Ross and yourself winning the Amsterdam race in 1969 with a 1250sbp in a Levi 16 v hull and Charlie Shepherd had his 1st 16ft cat out in 1968 Soggy Moggy won its class in the Paris 6hr race.If you thought the Milesmaster Cats were poor you should have drove one of Charlie`s Cats i drove them both? Whoa there, just a goldarn minute Steve-------nowhere have i ever said a bad word about the Miles tunnel----------i "PREFERRED" the Molly-----simple as that.
Tunnels that came out of a bucket never were any bloody good [in my day].
Wood talks to you -------glass doesn't-----end of story.
Can't comment on present day stuff ie; Cappellini craft --------i never got my rear in one.

[T2x]

Whoa there, just a goldarn minute Steve-------nowhere have i ever said a bad word about the Miles tunnel----------i "PREFERRED" the Molly-----simple as that.
Tunnels that came out of a bucket never were any bloody good [in my day].
Wood talks to you -------glass doesn't-----end of story.
Can't comment on present day stuff ie; Cappellini craft --------i never got my rear in one.

Jackie is right...he has been nothing but positive about Miles hulls..... Me?...I hated the damn things.

[jackie wilson]

Jackie i can remember Don Ross and yourself winning the Amsterdam race in 1969 with a 1250sbp in a Levi 16 v hull and Charlie Shepherd had his 1st 16ft cat out in 1968 Soggy Moggy won its class in the Paris 6hr race.If you thought the Milesmaster Cats were poor you should have drove one of Charlie`s Cats i drove them both?
Wasn't 69-----I started with the Torriggia in 1965-----The big Schultze in '66, the little Schulze in '67, The 18' Molly in '68 and the 17' in '70.
Would do the odd race as co driver with Don-----Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. Disliked the Levi intensely, but it was the best V bottom ever [at that time]. Last time i drove one was the London Thames race after i sold the Molly to Don, the morning of the race, and drove Julian Bailey's "PHAEDRA" I finished last after submarining the damn things 20 times----------Don went on to win. His first race win in a tunnel. His last race was Amsterdam 1970-----leading by 2 clear laps when he flipped and tore his hip out----Never did race again.

[STEVERINO]

Wasn't 69-----I started with the Torriggia in 1965-----The big Schultze in '66, the little Schulze in '67, The 18' Molly in '68 and the 17' in '70.
Would do the odd race as co driver with Don-----Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. Disliked the Levi intensely, but it was the best V bottom ever [at that time]. Last time i drove one was the London Thames race after i sold the Molly to Don, the morning of the race, and drove Julian Bailey's "PHAEDRA" I finished last after submarining the damn things 20 times----------Don went on to win. His first race win in a tunnel. His last race was Amsterdam 1970-----leading by 2 clear laps when he flipped and tore his hip out----Never did race again.
.[/QUOTE] Jackie i can remember the Torrigia Cat i think it was red and ran a 110hp mercury i saw it in 1968 think you ran it in the world of sport tv series`this was the first year i saw the new Shultze 17ft hydro Cat Mike Rose had a red one called (HOT ON)`think you supplied it` ran with a 125hp Merc.The only other one at that time was a dark green 17ft Schultze 125hp Merc also belonged to Denny Burton ( UNCLE DEN ) he and his son drove it.1968 saw you and Don Ross running a Ross Saunders Cat 125hp Merc at the Paris 6Hrs race i think it got holed.1969 was a good time for the UK drivers myself included Carl Kiekhaefer gave UK drivers the choice of a 1000SBP or 1250SBP outboard for the cost of £550 including a spare gearcase.And prize money 1st place £500 2nd place £300 3rd place £125.I never new you raced Julian Bailey`s (PHAEDRA) v hull in the London Thames powerboat race i can remember that race well i drove one of Charlie Shepherds 16ft GRP Cats and was trying to keep up with the leaders and submarined it and nearly broke it in to 2 halves wouldnt have been too bad but i had flown it in a previous race and that time it was in 2 pieces he had made a good job of repairing it but it never raced again.those were the days with no power trim?264789264790

[jackie wilson]

. Jackie i can remember the Torrigia Cat i think it was red and ran a 110hp mercury i saw it in 1968 think you ran it in the world of sport tv series`this was the first year i saw the new Shultze 17ft hydro Cat Mike Rose had a red one called (HOT ON)`think you supplied it` ran with a 125hp Merc.The only other one at that time was a dark green 17ft Schultze 125hp Merc also belonged to Denny Burton ( UNCLE DEN ) he and his son drove it.1968 saw you and Don Ross running a Ross Saunders Cat 125hp Merc at the Paris 6Hrs race i think it got holed.1969 was a good time for the UK drivers myself included Carl Kiekhaefer gave UK drivers the choice of a 1000SBP or 1250SBP outboard for the cost of £550 including a spare gearcase.And prize money 1st place £500 2nd place £300 3rd place £125.I never new you raced Julian Bailey`s (PHAEDRA) v hull in the London Thames powerboat race i can remember that race well i drove one of Charlie Shepherds 16ft GRP Cats and was trying to keep up with the leaders and submarined it and nearly broke it in to 2 halves wouldnt have been too bad but i had flown it in a previous race and that time it was in 2 pieces he had made a good job of repairing it but it never raced again.those were the days with no power trim?264789264790[/QUOTE]
I sold the small Torriggia cat to Mike Rose and then he had aspirations beyond his capabilities. Went to Austria with him and introduced him to Dieter Schulze. He bought the red 18' tunnel and raced it in the midlands and way up north.
I had the small Schultze with a 1000 BP and was cleaning up wherever we appeared.
At the weekend of the Champion Of Champions race-----i won on the saturday at Fairford-----and Mike offered me his Boat with a 1250 BP and £1000 cash if i would sell him my boat. Back in the day, that was a gynormous and stupid amount of money.
I was an up and coming Mercury dealer and had 5 kids and a wife to support, there was no way i could pass up the deal.
Even with a first place prize of £500 it was too good to let it go, so i did the deal.
Mike won, but i dogged him all the way and finished 2nd and got the place money.
Sold the boat to LOL Hopkins after the race for an obscene amount in one of the best deals of my life.
The kids were well pissed that i only came second-----but we ate well that week, and i ordered my first Molinari on the strength of it.

[Cindy Cooley]

In the 1969 Lake Havasu Outboard World Championships Official Program I note # 115 Lou Cooley from St. Louis, Missouri; co-driver Dorthy Cooley St. Louis, Missouri; 20' Power Cat; three Chrysler 135 Stackers! I heard she drove this boat or one like it, in one of the Mississippi River Marathons or endurance races! Does anyone recall if she got any "seat time", in the mid to late '60's at the Outboard World Championships?

Hi Mark,
Dorothy and Lou Cooley were/are my aunt and uncle. Aunt Dorothy passed away in 1997. I would have called her up and had your answer for you. I just asked my Mom, she doesn't remember. I have a photo that shows (2) KXOK boats being driven, one could be my aunt, don't really know. I hope the photos helps you a little bit.
Cindy Cooley Arnall

[mister h]

Sold the boat to LOL Hopkins after the race for an obscene amount in one of the best deals of my life.
The kids were well pissed that i only came second-----but we ate well that week, and i ordered my first Molinari on the strength of it.[/QUOTE]

Yes Good Old Lol Hopkins, always had more money than sense, I remember him going to a motor racing event, he came away with a CAN-Am race car, full support vehicle with spares and a mechanic to prep it for him. He raced it for a season always doing well to the point he blew the motor. He once stood in front of the EP Baras stand at the boat show looking at the latest Mercury race motor with a signed blank check saying put your own numbers on that.... they said NO.
Ha ha those were the days

[Watermark]

Wasn't 69-----I started with the Torriggia in 1965-----The big Schultze in '66, the little Schulze in '67, The 18' Molly in '68 and the 17' in '70.
Would do the odd race as co driver with Don-----Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. Disliked the Levi intensely, but it was the best V bottom ever [at that time]. Last time i drove one was the London Thames race after i sold the Molly to Don, the morning of the race, and drove Julian Bailey's "PHAEDRA" I finished last after submarining the damn things 20 times----------Don went on to win. His first race win in a tunnel. His last race was Amsterdam 1970-----leading by 2 clear laps when he flipped and tore his hip out----Never did race again.

Jackie, in 1971, perhaps even before that, a British driver by the name of Adrien Bailey ran on the Canadian circuit - driving a Levi... Were Julien and Adrien related?

[jackie wilson]

Jackie, in 1971, perhaps even before that, a British driver by the name of Adrien Bailey ran on the Canadian circuit - driving a Levi... Were Julien and Adrien related?
Yes !!!! Adrian and Julian were brothers who ran a very successful advertising agency in The City [London]. Both were members of the LMBRC. for a few years. Believe Adrian went to Canada in the mid sixties and Julian followed a couple of years later. Don Ross's mechanic, Bill Benson visited them in the early seventies. The boat they ran was a 16' Levi built by SOUTERS of Shoreham- by- Sea and supplied by JOHN MERRYFIELD & LEN MELLY via DOUBLE M. Never knew Adrian raced a Levi in Canada so it was probably supplied by Double M directly into Canada. I bought PHAEDRA from Julian and sold it on to Chas Shooter [ my mechanic].
Does that answer your question ???
Just doing a "Willabee"-----you know what i mean, a simple "yes" would suffice, but he has to go to Halifax N.S. to get to Disney World !!!!

[jackie wilson]

Sold the boat to LOL Hopkins after the race for an obscene amount in one of the best deals of my life.
The kids were well pissed that i only came second-----but we ate well that week, and i ordered my first Molinari on the strength of it.

Yes Good Old Lol Hopkins, always had more money than sense, I remember him going to a motor racing event, he came away with a CAN-Am race car, full support vehicle with spares and a mechanic to prep it for him. He raced it for a season always doing well to the point he blew the motor. He once stood in front of the EP Baras stand at the boat show looking at the latest Mercury race motor with a signed blank check saying put your own numbers on that.... they said NO.
Ha ha those were the days[/QUOTE]

You sure it was the E.P. BARRUS stand--------Bob Glenn of Barrus did not get the Mercury Franchise until South Western Marine Closed their doors---------Very late 90's i think.
By that time Lol had been in and out of business like a yo-yo, one minute skint and the next back like a bad penny,
Big bloke, Big mouth, Blank cheque book , and not much ability, except to talk a good con job.
That about right Stevo?????????

[mister h]

265789
Yes Good Old Lol Hopkins, always had more money than sense, I remember him going to a motor racing event, he came away with a CAN-Am race car, full support vehicle with spares and a mechanic to prep it for him. He raced it for a season always doing well to the point he blew the motor. He once stood in front of the EP Baras stand at the boat show looking at the latest Mercury race motor with a signed blank check saying put your own numbers on that.... they said NO.
Ha ha those were the days

You sure it was the E.P. BARRUS stand--------Bob Glenn of Barrus did not get the Mercury Franchise until South Western Marine Closed their doors---------Very late 90's i think.
By that time Lol had been in and out of business like a yo-yo, one minute skint and the next back like a bad penny,
Big bloke, Big mouth, Blank cheque book , and not much ability, except to talk a good con job.
That about right Stevo?????????[/QUOTE] Mr Jackie Wilson just wondered if you ever raced at this venue called TATTERSHAL Lincolnshire i used to race two up with my cousin Steve at the club races` this boat race circuit even had its own Castle the commadore at that time was a Mr Aubrey Musson the picture would be from 1967 those were the days 50hp Mercs everywhere some 110 mercs and hundreds of spectators they could park their cars all the way round the circuit for free` if it rained they just sat in their cars and watched the boat races.They had so many race entries they had to run heats`you may remember Mr Ron Burchell he always supported the boat races with his members from the Grimsby+Cleethorpes boat racing club one or two ladies raced too.Mike Rose ran his first Schultz cat here and can remember Tom Percival and Peter Sabberton turning up one day to race`in between boat races they had trick waterski displays can remember a 10 yr old boy being pulled round by his dad called Mike Hazelwood in a delta inboard boat went on to be World water ski champion.Alan H.

[Watermark]

Yes !!!! Adrian and Julian were brothers who ran a very successful advertising agency in The City [London]. Both were members of the LMBRC. for a few years. Believe Adrian went to Canada in the mid sixties and Julian followed a couple of years later. Don Ross's mechanic, Bill Benson visited them in the early seventies. The boat they ran was a 16' Levi built by SOUTERS of Shoreham- by- Sea and supplied by JOHN MERRYFIELD & LEN MELLY via DOUBLE M. Never knew Adrian raced a Levi in Canada so it was probably supplied by Double M directly into Canada. I bought PHAEDRA from Julian and sold it on to Chas Shooter [ my mechanic].
Does that answer your question ???
Just doing a "Willabee"-----you know what i mean, a simple "yes" would suffice, but he has to go to Halifax N.S. to get to Disney World !!!!

Adrian Bailey driving his FJ-67 Levi in Galt, Ontario, Canada ( now called Cambridge - we might have stolen that city name from another country across the pond! ). Taken from an issue of Canadian Boating 1973.



265790

[jackie wilson]

265789

You sure it was the E.P. BARRUS stand--------Bob Glenn of Barrus did not get the Mercury Franchise until South Western Marine Closed their doors---------Very late 90's i think.
By that time Lol had been in and out of business like a yo-yo, one minute skint and the next back like a bad penny,
Big bloke, Big mouth, Blank cheque book , and not much ability, except to talk a good con job.
That about right Stevo????????? Mr Jackie Wilson just wondered if you ever raced at this venue called TATTERSHAL Lincolnshire i used to race two up with my cousin Steve at the club races` this boat race circuit even had its own Castle the commadore at that time was a Mr Aubrey Musson the picture would be from 1967 those were the days 50hp Mercs everywhere some 110 mercs and hundreds of spectators they could park their cars all the way round the circuit for free` if it rained they just sat in their cars and watched the boat races.They had so many race entries they had to run heats`you may remember Mr Ron Burchell he always supported the boat races with his members from the Grimsby+Cleethorpes boat racing club one or two ladies raced too.Mike Rose ran his first Schultz cat here and can remember Tom Percival and Peter Sabberton turning up one day to race`in between boat races they had trick waterski displays can remember a 10 yr old boy being pulled round by his dad called Mike Hazelwood in a delta inboard boat went on to be World water ski champion.Alan H.[/QUOTE]

Graham Musson must have been Aubreys son.
There used to be three of them came down to my shop in Southwater Sussex, Graham, Ron and i'm damned if i can remember the third one. Sold them a bunch of boats and motors.
Tattershall was always a great little club, but i don't remember any nationals being held there, so i never made it there to race. When i was doing business with Mike Rose i used to go up there regularly. Once had to break the ice to test his new Schultze.
Peter Sabberton was a big inboard enthusiast and lived at "Sabberton Hall"???? Didn't Frankie Holmes of YARECRAFT, buy the Hall from him ????
Frankie was famous for his "HELP" written on the bottom of his boat.
Got to know Mike Hazelwood and his family through ski - racing, along with Liz Hobbs and father Peter.
He had a corporate box at Chelsea, and at the boat show we used to get the best seats in the house.
Did some propwork for them in the early days.

[jackie wilson]

Hey Willa---------Wakey wakey, time to put your brain in gear !!!!!
Did you ever come across a COVENTRY CLIMAX outboard----i found one and decided to have a go at racing the damn thing. Was a 50 hp four cylinder four stroke----ran smooth and quiet but did not have any punch at all and was twice as heavy as a 50 Merc/ Rang a couple of motor specialists who were running basically the same engine in Formula one Grand Prix cars----but the cost was horrendous, so i sold it on and never saw another one. Just thought you might know something, this was the early 60's.

[Mark75H]

If I'm not mistaken, these were sold in the US as the Homelight Bearcat outboard. Different variation also used the Crosley powerhead.

It sold reasoably well in the US for an "off brand" I guess a lot of folks didn't want to mix oil with their gas. Many are still around; they are uncommon, but not really rare these days.

[lilabner]

Also sold as a Fageol. Crosley was a pretty unique engine. Raced in many inboard classes as well as SCCA.

[GENE LANHAM]

Also sold as a Fageol. Crosley was a pretty unique engine. Raced in many inboard classes as well as SCCA.

I'm not going to let you forget the TQ's, Butch---:)

[jackie wilson]

If I'm not mistaken, these were sold in the US as the Homelight Bearcat outboard. Different variation also used the Crosley powerhead.

It sold reasoably well in the US for an "off brand" I guess a lot of folks didn't want to mix oil with their gas. Many are still around; they are uncommon, but not really rare these days.

Reason i went for the Climax was , i had heard the likes of John Cooper and Syd Allard talking about the possibility of attaining 100 HP per litre from one of these motors---------a most ridiculous statement to my mind, but if there was even a smell of anything like that being possible, i was interested !!!!!!
The British Royal Navy had bought a bunch of them for trials in the Med. but due to the mix of metals in their construction, ie; alloy , bronze, steel and tin in the leg and foot department-------after a few weeks, and the gearcases dropping off, they rapidly sold them on at bargain prices.
I was running in freshwater, so i couldn't see a problem. The main problem was the weight , and power output-----it was claimed to be 50HP from a 1200cc motor, so that should have been possible.
The reality was , it couldn't hold a candle to the 50 Merc i was running at the time.
The Climax was rapidly despatched.

[lilabner]

I'm not going to let you forget the TQ's, Butch---:)

thanks Gene..by the way, you're older than I am, how did you remember them too?
When I think of the Crosleys, I always think of Doc Moore, Bascom Grooms, Stan Irwin, and the buzzing sound they made.

[GENE LANHAM]

thanks Gene..by the way, you're older than I am, how did you remember them too?.
I'm not going to let you forget the TQ's, Butch---

Butch---I am finding the only thing that improves with age is--long term memory, in fact, I may be the only person alive that remembers what a TQ is--:)

[lilabner]

I'm not going to let you forget the TQ's, Butch---

Butch---I am finding the only thing that improves with age is--long term memory, in fact, I may be the only person alive that remembers what a TQ is--:)

Then there's four of us now...

[velox]

thanks Gene..by the way, you're older than I am, how did you remember them too?
When I think of the Crosleys, I always think of Doc Moore, Bascom Grooms, Stan Irwin, and the buzzing sound they made.
Butch
Are you getting so old you forgot about our buddy Tommy Davis?

[lilabner]

Butch
Are you getting so old you forgot about our buddy Tommy Davis?

I didn't forget him, I just never saw him race one..you want his number?

[2us70]

Gene.I remember going down to that little track in Florida City to watch TQs. Al Reed took me down there to watch Earle Hatch run a car that Al had helped put a 44in merc 50 conversion into it. And there you were. You were running a red car and Hatch ran a light blue one.

[GENE LANHAM]

Gene.I remember going down to that little track in Florida City to watch TQs. Al Reed took ma down there to watch Earle Hatch run a car that Al had helped put a 44in merc 50 conversion into it. And there you were. You were running a red car and Hatch ran a light blue one.

Excelent long term memory, Jim!!! Looked like this----?

http://i47.tinypic.com/bhx5b4.jpg

[willabee]

Excelent long term memory, Jim!!! Looked like this----?

http://i47.tinypic.com/bhx5b4.jpg

Man, look at the stagger in those front tires! It appears from the background that if one of those machines went off track, they would either pick up a few "kill decals" or become a hood ornament on a 1959 Impala. :D

I guess waaaay back in 1959, go karting had not become popular yet ..... at least, not in Florida.

[2us70]

That's it. I would have liked to try driving those cars. But then again I loved racing just about anything.

[lilabner]

I guess waaaay back in 1959, go karting had not become popular yet ..... at least, not in Florida.[/QUOTE]
Go Karts were getting big in 58..At Dade Marine, we put a M20 powerhead in a kart and the Fla 1/4 Champ raced it..Had a Jaguar heater core for a radiator. Was brutally fast for it's time. We beat the Rathmann Exterminators easily. They outlawed water cooled karts after 4 races. Then we cut up a M15 block and tried to run it with no water jackets..Didn't work..

[jackie wilson]

Now those are PROPER race cars---------where you can actually SEE who the driver is. You could put a monkey in todays cars and nobody would know------[they probably do, come to think about it].
So that's where MASERATI got their shape from !!!!!!!!!! and a lot of the continentals . Were they ever F.U.N.
Bet those guys didn't get $20,000,000 a year and still bitch about the "dangers involved".

[powerabout]

If I'm not mistaken, these were sold in the US as the Homelight Bearcat outboard. Different variation also used the Crosley powerhead.

It sold reasoably well in the US for an "off brand" I guess a lot of folks didn't want to mix oil with their gas. Many are still around; they are uncommon, but not really rare these days.
Do you have any photos Sam?

[GENE LANHAM]

Now those are PROPER race cars---------where you can actually SEE who the driver is.
So that's where MASERATI got their shape from !!!!!!!!!! and a lot of the continentals . Were they ever F.U.N.
Bet those guys didn't get $20,000,000 a year and still bitch about the "dangers involved".

Progress. You and I have seen a lot in the past 50 years, Jackie. Back then, unfortunately, people did get hurt, Now, tons of money have neen spent on safety and performance, drivers are protected, speeds have double or tripled, and people are still getting hurt. BADLY. Are they having F.U. N.? Probably not as much as we had with a 13' plywood boat with a 44" outboard, or a race car or Kart that we built in our carport----

[velox]

I didn't forget him, I just never saw him race one..you want his number?
He used to race 48s and yes send me his number.
we missed you at OFF.

[RogerH]

Progress. You and I have seen a lot in the past 50 years, Jackie. Back then, unfortunately, people did get hurt, Now, tons of money have neen spent on safety and performance, drivers are protected, speeds have double or tripled, and people are still getting hurt. BADLY. Are they having F.U. N.? Probably not as much as we had with a 13' plywood boat with a 44" outboard, or a race car or Kart that we built in our carport----
Gene, I agree totally with your assessment..."are they having F.U.N." I really don't understand why there isn't more interest in running rigs at Vintage events, because it is FUN!!! without the competition. Some just have to have the competition, and I understand that, but I feel that there are others that would really enjoy "getting back in the seat" in a relatively safe vintage environment. I never got to race (when I should have), so maybe I just don't get it. - Roger

[jackie wilson]

Gene, I agree totally with your assessment..."are they having F.U.N." I really don't understand why there isn't more interest in running rigs at Vintage events, because it is FUN!!! without the competition. Some just have to have the competition, and I understand that, but I feel that there are others that would really enjoy "getting back in the seat" in a relatively safe vintage environment. I never got to race (when I should have), so maybe I just don't get it. - Roger

Back in the day when a dollar bought a big mac,--fries, ----and a gallon of iced coke.
I bought Barry Sheene's GMC 6 wheeler motor home, had the paint job done , and in huge letters down the side, it read 'RACING FOR FUN '
It slept 5 kids as well as the parents and we went all over Europe, doing what we loved the most----racing for fun.

They talk about the factory days being the best-----a two edged sword----a lot for it and a lot more against it.
Drivers could fall out and make up the same day-------the factories couldn't ----or wouldn't----and didn't.
At the time, the pinnacle of racing was reached, so were the rows between the factories .
Law suits and accusations flying back and forth.
Sneaky underhand dealings with builders and drivers.
Top execs switching between the factories.
Then in the late 70/'s the decline started until today it's damn near in it's death throes .
We have to blame somebody ' cos thats what we do.
Do we do it here on Willa's "Hot SIngles or do we move on.
I think it should be debated here-----after all --Willa was one of the top brass with one of the protagonists.

[willabee]

...., doing what we loved the most----racing for fun.

They talk about the factory days being the best-----a two edged sword----a lot for it and a lot more against it.

Then in the late 70/'s the decline started until today it's damn near in it's death throes . We have to blame somebody ' cos thats what we do.

--Willa was with one of the protagonists.

I don't think there is a right or a wrong (a good or a bad) with what Jackie has brought up. My memory banks tell me there was no difference in enjoyment when comparing spending a Sunday with my parents and friends go kart racing or spending it with working mates trying to win the Paris 6 Hour. It was all fun and I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything! Besides, you never really race for fun, you race to win ..... and if you do it right, you have fun in the process.

The factory days were the best, the best for a number of reasons. Of course there was the great advancement in hulls and the power for them, making them the best days for the sport itself. The races were bigger and better than ever before and media coverage started making superstars out of short English guys. :D

Besides all of that stuff, a whole bunch of people got to meet a whole bunch of people they would otherwise never have met. In most cases, people made new friendships, some of which have lasted a lifetime. People got to travel to places they may have never taken the time to see and all have great stories to tell the grandkids (about the only captive audience left for an old boatracer).

You can argue that if the factories hadn't gotten involved, there wouldn't have been a decline in the interest in racing. That's probably true because there wouldn't have been that surge of growth in the sport either. Names like Billy Seebold & Renato Molinari and the feats that go with those names would not be known on both sides of the pond. Hell, without factory involvement, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to have these chats with so many different people on S&F and I truely have enjoyed them. :thumbsup:

Lastly..... Jackie, you used another big word, can I be arrested for being with a protagonist?

[jackie wilson]

superstars out of short English guys. :D

Bsee and all have great stories to tell the grandkids (about the only captive audience left for an old boatracer).

have these chats with so many different people on S&F and I truely have enjoyed them. :thumbsup:

Lastly..... Jackie, you used another big word, can I be arrested for being with a protagonist?[/QUOTE]

Protagonist according to the oxford--------a central character ------------a main player in a drama ????
Whichever way you care to put it Willa, ----------You were one of the central characters.
Don't blame me if you get arrested !!!!!!!!!!
Seebold would have made his mark and so would Renato with or without factory involvement. Renato was not yet a factory product when i first knew him in !965----Met Billy in Havasu 1970.
Not all good drivers made the factory teams.
I was meeting race drivers from other countries long before Merc and OMC joined the fray.
I was very glad to be able to get first class kit that was state of the art and up to date.
Still think nobody could stir up trouble like the two factories.
Would have been nice if they would have been content with straight competition, and a set formula that was regulated by an honest ruling body instead of the conniving , deceitful , and dubious body that was and still is the UIM.
Hells teeth and bloody hooray -------somebody else out there must have an opinion-----------OR NOT ??????

[jackie wilson]

Renato was 17 and an apprentice to Angelo who was the boatbuilder in `Como, he was just starting out on his career and was a great kid in those days. I have sat at the family dinner table on numerous occasions with his mum and dad and brothers , Renato always made the pasta from scratch.
It seemed like all we did was race , travel, and make friends.
I can still remember when all drivers helped each other to get ready for the next race.
Didn't matter what boat or motor you used, everyone would dive in and help.
The factories changed all that-------ALL ON THEIR OWN.
Sneaky tricks, underhand dealing, telling lies and bending rules came to be the norm.
Yes, i joined them, and did some little rule bending of my own, Only time in years both factories agreed on anything.
All i'm saying is it was not the perfecy solution it could have been.

[shadowcat]

Hetzel was the best..:)

C.G.125 -please check your private messages and reply-thanks -ted

[STEVERINO]

267675
Back in the day when a dollar bought a big mac,--fries, ----and a gallon of iced coke.
I bought Barry Sheene's GMC 6 wheeler motor home, had the paint job done , and in huge letters down the side, it read 'RACING FOR FUN '
It slept 5 kids as well as the parents and we went all over Europe, doing what we loved the most----racing for fun.

They talk about the factory days being the best-----a two edged sword----a lot for it and a lot more against it.
Drivers could fall out and make up the same day-------the factories couldn't ----or wouldn't----and didn't.
At the time, the pinnacle of racing was reached, so were the rows between the factories .
Law suits and accusations flying back and forth.
Sneaky underhand dealings with builders and drivers.
Top execs switching between the factories.
Then in the late 70/'s the decline started until today it's damn near in it's death throes .
We have to blame somebody ' cos thats what we do.
Do we do it here on Willa's "Hot SIngles or do we move on.
I think it should be debated here-----after all --Willa was one of the top brass with one of the protagonists. Jackie take a look behind the Evinrude engine in the picture see if this brings back old memories of the pits Paris 6hr race 1978?

[jackie wilson]

Steve--you sure this was '78 ???? Had the Big Cosworth up and running well by then---can't think of the reason we never took it to Paris.
Took Marks little Hodges and in spite of a 20 minute stop with a ruptured fuel tank [ which Mark bound up with gaffer tape ] we won the class and finished 3rd overall and that was the last time i ever sat in a race boat.
Sure as God made little green apples that's the GMC 6 wheeler Chas and i bought off Barry Sheene.

[STEVERINO]

267860
Steve--you sure this was '78 ???? Had the Big Cosworth up and running well by then---can't think of the reason we never took it to Paris.
Took Marks little Hodges and in spite of a 20 minute stop with a ruptured fuel tank [ which Mark bound up with gaffer tape ] we won the class and finished 3rd overall and that was the last time i ever sat in a race boat.
Sure as God made little green apples that's the GMC 6 wheeler Chas and i bought off Barry Sheene. Jackie put your feet up a minute and lets have a think about this there is a story in that picture the yellow Molinari Johnson outfit was new for Paris 6hr 1977 i had Alfi Bullen that year as co driver` the Burgess Evinrude in the picture no 19 was yours and Alfi bullens outfit for the 1978 Paris race that was the only time it ever raced at Paris and i had Bill Badsey from South Africa driving with me in the yellow Molinari in 1978.Can you spot the fuel container in the picture i can remember after the race Alfi coming over to me and saying can we lift the fuel container over to put in Jackies travelhome he needs this fuel more than you he paid half the fuel and entry fee and never got a drive? Now thinking back to the big Cosworth it did run in a few races in 1978 and i cannot think why you never ran it would have been ideal for that race? It was at the Paris race in 1979 that you and Mark drove the small Hodges outfit i think it was Marks first race there?.

[willabee]

Aronow was very good. So good, he hired great people: Abbey, Walters, Wynne, Chapman, Schoell, Seebold-----

(So sorry, Bill W.)

:thumbsup: Just saw this ..... thinking about your boo-boo on the list of great Bill's I see :D

[willabee]

Yes !!!! Adrian and Julian were brothers who ran a very successful advertising agency ....... mechanic].
Does that answer your question ???
Just doing a "Willabee"-----you know what i mean, a simple "yes" would suffice, but he has to go to Halifax N.S. to get to Disney World !!!!

Didn't see you sneak that one in Jackie me boy, you know you've got one comin' now. :reddevil:

[willabee]

Hey Mr.T, you out there?

Got a PM from Shadowcat. He is restoring a Glastron/Molinari that Jock Horner used to race and asked if I remember anything about it. I do recall that boat in Charleston (?) back around 1970 and I'm hoping you can verify or correct this story.

You (Tom Stickle), Jim Merten and I were on our way back to Oshkosh after doing some testing at Lake X. You were pulling either a Molinari or Jones single stacker and Mert and I were pulling the yellow triple Jones. I remember you were in front of us because on a couple of occasions I became concerned that you were getting drowsy. Your truck would start swaying and would cross the centerline as we went up the grades. Turns out you were just trying to use your coffee cup to drain some coffee as we ran slower speeds! :o I think Garbrecht had called just before we left the Lake and suggested we test our Lake X results at this race on the way back home.

We were stopped in traffic on a bridge overlooking the race course and pits and we could see that the boats were already being launched in prep for the start. We decided to get the boats ready while we were stuck there. You got yours untied except for the nose and made a prop selection based on what we could see of the course from the bridge. Mert and I took the braces off of the trailer and lowered the triple flat for launching. We also untied everything and installed props.

We finally made it off of the bridge and into the pits. It was obvious that some of the entrants were not very happy with these factory rigs showing up at their club race. We did some kind of quick check-in and put the boats in the water. I believe the folks putting on the race gave us a bunch of help getting through inspection quickly because they wanted those two boats in the race. I seem to recall a running start for this one hour marathon and the other boats were heading for the start as you guys were getting on plane.

The course had one pin turns at both ends. If memory serves, you followed the triple through traffic until finally you guys got to Jock, running first in his Glastron stacker. The course wasn't all that wide and Jock would run on the inside while Mert ran outside of him. There wasn't really anywhere for you to go. Mert would catch and sometimes pass Jock on the straightaways and then Jock would make one of those tight bonzii turns and be back in the lead. That's how you guys ran for the last twenty or thirty minutes and Jock won the race. Jock was thrilled, he not only won, but took down the factory while doing so! :cool:

That's my recollection of your boat Shadowcat, hope that helps. Maybe you can get Mr. Stickle to autograph it at the next OFF gathering. Have him sign somewhere near the transom, since that is what he is most familar with after looking at it for most of that race. :D