Tuff 28

[RBT]

There was some discussion on another post about the Tuff 28

I have a few picture of the plug. ( with permission ). They are not great, and you really don't get the idea. But all I can say is it is BAD.
The boat was designed in CAD and done with CNC. The bottom is done, the first part is in the mold, these are pictures of the finishing of the deck plug. The mold should be started by the end of the week.

RT

[RBT]

two more

[DoktorC]

That is hella cool. I cannot wait to see the finished product!!!!! Tell Mark not to forget to sleep lol.

[350cavi]

That is going to be one sweet hull when it's done. Be nice to see a couple of 300x's on there. Keep up the good work guys

[voo-doo_child]

Is the Idea that this boat will be rigged with verado(s)?

Is there going to be an I/O version?

I love the smaller Tuffs. This one looks to uphold the quality and respect of the company, and then some!

Keep the pics coming!

-child

[PHISH]

I thought it was going to be a I/O.

[David]

I saw the plug a couple of weeks ago and it looks great. Per the Tuff web site it will be available as I/O or as twin outboard.

[Flat Out]

Saw Mark and Dana at the Double R bash sat. night. Boat will be in the boat show in Jan. Mark is very excited about this one. For a 28 it will be light and FAST. Mild to wild, superb quality. This is going to be a great boat.
I wont say any more.

[RBT]

No Verado's they are too heavy. Right now, 250XS's or the new 300XS. Other power will be the 496 HO, HP525, and the Illmor 625.

To say Mark is excited is an understatment!.

RT

[RBT]

Pictures of the bottom

[DoktorC]

and don't forget the VZ300 ;)...

[RBT]

Not enough gear and no props big enough. And now that the mercs are 87 octane motors, and have a higher ( 6300 ) rev limiter................

[DoktorC]

Don't be soooo negative lol...some of use dream in blue.

[RBT]

Hey I love the E-Tec's and the Yammi's, but untill they come up with taller gears they arn't gonna be that great on the fast boats.


RT

[DoktorC]

I know...maybe they can get their act together and make some more reasonable gear sets..

Either way..I didn't mean to deviate from the point of the thread...which is one bad ass boat!!!

[RBT]

or more rpm range...... like 7000

[350cavi]

WOW! you guys down at John's shop and with Mark making this new hull, lets just say that you guys are doing excellent work. Keep it up guys! Can't wait to see it at the boat show.

[Fibertron]

very nice i cant wait to see it!!!!

[RBT]

A picture of the unfinished deck plug.

[blkmtrfan]

A picture of the unfinished deck plug.

Great lines, love the length to freeboard ratio :cool: :cool:

Keep the pics coming :D

[350cavi]

WHOOOOAAA!!! That is one sweet looking boat, keep the good work coming.

[wing nut]

very nice! keep us updated on the progress!


scott

[Trikki1010]

A picture of the unfinished deck plug.

As long as YOU keep taking pics and STAY OUT of the building process :eek: :eek:

That TUFF ought to come out VERY nice :D :D

Say hi to John for me Elder Moron ;) :D

[Chummy]

would look good with one of these in it with a #6 speedmaster on the back

[RBT]

Trikki, I did a little work on it already...... I want to claim some sort of responsibility for it's outcome....... you know me!..

[Trikki1010]

Trikki, I did a little work on it already...... I want to claim some sort of responsibility for it's outcome....... you know me!..

Walking around like a dictator isn't work :eek: :eek: ;)

:D :D

[RBT]

well how come all the union guys do it and get paid?

RT

[RBT]

More of the tuff 28, this is the core after it has been vacuum bagged into it, the other is the begining of the deck mold the green is the tooling gel and the rough is the fist of many many layers of 1.5oz mat.

[RBT]

These pictures are of the transom being clamped in, and a sign people can look for to see if there boat has been vacuum bagged. This is from the bubble wrap that is used, and often some parts will show it where it hasn come incontact with the putty or resin.

RT

[RBT]

BTW, the core on the bottom is 3/4, and the sides is 5/8. Most mfg's only do the bottom, and at that they don't vacuum bag and are using 1/2 inch.


RT

[Riverman]

2 questions RBT:

What is the bubble wrap used for?
Does John bag the glass over the core ?
Does he hot coat the core with GP resin prior to glassing over top?

Oops that was 3 questions. :p

[RBT]

1- allows the air to move
2- John can bag the glass over the core if you want. IE he does do wet bagging, and infusion.
3- Yes, you have to put ISO resin on the core so that the ATC core bond will stick. You CANNOT use vinylester ( in this case the boat is 100% AME5000, with the exception of the core soak )

RT

[DoktorC]

Just think...you could spend hours and hours popping..I bet there's alot of bubble wrap used in a 28ft boat :).

[Riverman]

John can bag the glass over the core if you want.RTI knew that part, he and I discussed that. But I was wondering about a "hot coat" of resin over the core prior to covering - ATC recommends it in their manual.

Bubble wrap for breather? I never would have thought of that.

[RBT]

when you say hot coat, I am assuming you mean that you need to coat the core that is touching the activeated core bond, then the answer is yes. You use a catalized ISO or GP resin........ this is a must or your bond will fail.

RT

[Riverman]

No, I'm talking about the top side. Apply resin, let gel, apply glass and resin.

[RBT]

this balsa is pre coated.

[350cavi]

man...John and his guys do a superb job in laying up a hull. Excellent work by far.

Hey RBT, does Mark help John and his guys do the layup?, or does Mark have a "contract" with John and when the layup is at a certain stage of completion, Mark takes over from there?

[RBT]

Mark does help. John and his girls ( really his girls ) do the lamination. Mark is more than capable, and are John ( he is a master ) of doing the work independant of eachother.

As for quality, The only boat I have seen that is anywhere near this is the Progression.
Everything else is second rate, I am somewhat shocked at how another boat on the board was build with a similar post. Not bad, just some things that I feel are behind the times.

RT

[350cavi]

Well I know that the build quality is not even a question when John builds a boat. My buddy bought a xt bottom and a voo-doo off of John and lets just say that I was astounded by the quality. Both the xt bottom and the voo doo and incredibly strong. John really knows his ch!t.

[Fibertron]

the Tuff 28 is going to be an amazing boat!!!
I cant wait to see it finished

[Alan Power]

No, I'm talking about the top side. Apply resin, let gel, apply glass and resin.

Jeff, didn't you have curing problems using Iso as a priming resin?

[airpacker]

the Tuff 28 is going to be an amazing boat!!!
I cant wait to see it finished

More like I can't wait to test drive it :)

[RBT]

You got that right Packer....... the test drive is gonna be the best part!

[Trikki1010]

You got that right Packer....... the test drive is gonna be the best part!

Is there a "real" test boat driver among ur ranks :eek: :eek: :D ;)

[Riverman]

Jeff, didn't you have curing problems using Iso as a priming resin?I had problems with vinylester. GP is the correct resin for priming core or any other application where resin must cure in a very thin film. I learned that the hard way.:o

[RBT]

Naaaaa Trikki, we just wing it.
When are you coming back up here to invade us, you need a real beer and a smack upside the head.

RT

[RBT]

Ya I was with 5 chicks......... you two get kicked to the curb.

[RBT]

tell me about

[Trikki1010]

Ya I was with 5 chicks......... you two get kicked to the curb.

Chickens don't count :eek: :eek:

I'm gonna have to send Herb up there ;)

[RBT]

Better than Pigs Trikki.........

[Trikki1010]

Better than Pigs Trikki.........

I agree, you have limited selection up there :eek: :eek: :D

If ya eat the ham, your done, BUT you can always get eggs from the chicken....So let this be a marketing lesson for you...

The chicken is Involved
The pig was commited ;)

Mr. Slap me on the head :rolleyes:

[RBT]

They are on the STV owners websight.

RT

[RBT]

apparently the bottom is out of the mold, and the deck is being vacuum bagged tomorrow.

[RBT]

I will try and get some pictures....... with a clean camera lense this time.

[RBT]

last one today

[DoktorC]

That looks efffing sweet!!

He's going to have the trailer before the boat is done lol.

[350cavi]

man.........that thing is going to f**king fly!!! the plug sitting up in the air like that just makes it look fast sitting still! Keep it up guys!

[Chummy]

Lets see some of the bottom next time

[RBT]

best I can do for now

[Trikki1010]

best I can do for now

Figures :rolleyes:

Could we improve on picture quality :p

[RBT]

trikki......when you call, try AFTER 5pm, I have a JOB.

[blkmtrfan]

Thanks Rob for all the pics and keeping us up to date :cool:


Have you heard anything about the interior yet? Any kind of inner liner?

[Chummy]

How wide is the pad on the 28?

[RBT]

not sure, but I am going to say a foot........but that is a guess.


RT

[SUPAJAY]

Is it going to be I/O only or twin outboard ? :confused:

[RBT]

Both, the first one will be a twin outboard.
It is designed to take either power option.

RT

[voo-doo_child]

Does the hull have capabilities to facilitate twin i/o's?

[airpacker]

Does the hull have capabilities to facilitate twin i/o's?
Maybe a pair of inline 4's :)

[2.5-21]

what is it a stretched 21? would like to see some better pics

[RotorHead]

what is it a stretched 21? would like to see some better pics

Both the Plug and the mold were created by Mark Weigl (TuffBoat) and absolutely NOT there is nothing stretched about this boat. It is absolutely new!

From the pencil conceptual drawing….

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05511/drawing.jpg (http://xs.to)

To the CAD design…

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05511/Cadsidea.JPG (http://xs.to)

To the 6-8 different models that were built….


http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05511/modelsideresiz.JPG (http://xs.to)

To the plug…


http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05511/28molddeckb003.jpg (http://xs.to)

In three to four days, I can post the picture of the first boat… the hull is out of the mold and the deck is being vacuum bagged tomorrow…

[blkmtrfan]

That was a great post, thanks Rotorhead :cool:

[RBT]

Ted great post!.
I saw the hull popped out...... WOW is all I can say!, Mark was just preping the deck to vacuum bag it, I suspect he will have them joined in wednesday!. I forgot my camera here at work, so I couldn't get some pictures. ........Ted that is in your hands now!.
( can you get a few of the SRV and email them to me )

RT

[DoktorC]

I think one of those models would be great with some weedeater power :)...

[stokernick]

I'm thinking J58 `a la Laketrash:eek:

[RotorHead]

Hello everyone,

As promised, the boat is ready…

These photos were taken this afternoon as the deck came out of the mold and it was simply placed on the hull for photo purposes. I hope you like… We are very pleased!

Two weeks of rigging and Mark should be ready for he Jan 06 Toronto International boat show. Mark and I hope to see you there in person. We are in the same building as last year but two aisles closer to the Center “main” Building. The Yellow 21 will be there as well as this boat with twin outboards.

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05513/Tuff28sidetop.jpg (http://xs.to)

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05513/Tuff28side.jpg (http://xs.to)

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05513/Tuff28LR.jpg (http://xs.to)

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05513/tuff28hatch.jpg (http://xs.to)

[wing nut]

wow.. that thing looks sweet! one question though... no Steps in the bottom?

scott

[RotorHead]

wow.. that thing looks sweet! one question though... no Steps in the bottom?

scott

Correct! No steps, no notch. We thought long and hard about this…

As far as steps go, both Mark and I agree that the only thing that steps do is allow for the boat to achieve a 2-3 degree nose up angle of attack. Also they have the negative affect (.. and Jerry will like this) of aerating the last bit of the hull, which is, in my opinion, an undesirable effect for turning. Instead, it was decided that it would be better to taper the keel line to achieve the desired angle of attack. As well, to give it a little more lift a ‘mini’ strake was added to gain more bow lift. This allows the pad to ‘squat’ and invite the boat to sit on the pad and the first strake. Therefore, when the boat is at speed the water will separate off at the first strake, allowing the boat to free up and fly.

Here is the bottom close up

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05513/bottomdesign.jpg (http://xs.to)

[wing nut]

thats pretty interesting.. i dont have experience with the bigger boats but it seems like EVERYONE is using stepped bottoms on all the larger (26+) v-bottoms nowadays. the way you explain it it sounds great though! rig it and get some #'s!

scott

[Pro300x24LD]

That is way cool!
Way out of my league!
But way Cool!

[David]

Not all the fast V bottoms are stepped. Velocity is still making a notched pad V bottom, and they are as fast as anyone. I'm biased of course, but the Tuff is more cool.

Now I know I have to go to the Toronto boat show

[jerry]

is that pad in the back flat ????

[RotorHead]

is that pad in the back flat ????


Yes Jerry, Flat!

There is a slight (very slight 1-2 degrees) dihedral at the edges. The anhedral we experimented with the 21s resulted in too much tail lift and therefore required more trim to fly the boat. We took it out and the resultant, reduced thrust vector gave us 2mph.

[350cavi]

A 1 job guys!! kick a$$ looking boat, and I bet it will kick a$$ too!

[Liberated 18]

Man that is a incredible looking boat!!

You need to order one to run on Lanier ;) its very very sharp..

[blkmtrfan]

WOW


That boat looks amazing :cool:

Great job Mark, Ted and John :cool: :cool:

Keep the pics coming :D

[RotorHead]

Not all the fast V bottoms are stepped. Velocity is still making a notched pad V bottom, and they are as fast as anyone. I'm biased of course, but the Tuff is more cool.

Now I know I have to go to the Toronto boat show

Not just some fast boats are without steps… Some of the fastest are without them


http://www.phantomboats.com/new/other-images/fury6_f1-88.gif

http://www.velocityboats.com/images/322/james%20014.jpg


http://www.velocityboats.com/images/410/All%20Pics%20638.jpg

http://www.progressionboats.com/home/images/Boats/Stern%20Drive/29/sit%20down/1%20low.jpg

http://www.kryptoniteboats.com/images/290Sport/290_sport_1.jpg

http://www.panteraboats.com/boats/28/28_richie_013.jpg

http://www.howardboats.com/boat_specs/28_bullet/28_bullet.jpg

[DoktorC]

Here's how I prefer to see it :).


Of course I mean if it's not in the water lol...

[RotorHead]

Yes, it sure looks good on the trailer…

I’m surprised no one took me up on the debate of steps vs. no steps…. Hmmm…

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98862

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05514/Resized_TUFF28trailer.jpg (http://xs.to)

[DoktorC]

How do you debate with a guy that uses dihedral and anhedral to describe boat bottoms :).

[airpacker]

I wonder how it would run with a BH drive and 500 hp? Will it need alot of positive trim to carry the bow Ted? or was that designed in to keep the motors as neutral as possible?


So, PBCC test drive day on Couch is when you say????????????

[Trikki1010]

I just want to know how far back in the corner did they have to stuff Rob's SRV to get that 28 done :eek: :eek: ;)

[RBT]

Trikki, lets just say I was outside for a bit. But now that Tuff boat is gone for a bit I am good to go!

[airpacker]

How do you debate with a guy that uses dihedral and anhedral to describe boat bottoms :).

frickin whirly bird jockey :)

[blkmtrfan]

Ted I am anti step as well ;)


But I have to rib you a little on the pics, :p

The Howard is stepped:


Utilizing the most up to date advanced ventilated-stepped hull technology available today, the 28 BULLET delivers speed and performance as only a Howard can

And I believe the Kryptonite is as well:

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/7618/0178uj.jpg

[RBT]

While we are ribbing Ted so is the Phantom ( fury ).

That being said, have you ever looked at a Fountain running top speed?, the steps are clear of the water........

RT

[Chummy]

Fountain is hands down the best turning stepped hull out there.

[RotorHead]

Ribbing is just fine. I realized that some of those boats are in fact stepped after I posted them. That’s OK crow tastes just fine especially this time of year… instead of turkey.

[RotorHead]

I wonder how it would run with a BH drive and 500 hp? Will it need alot of positive trim to carry the bow Ted? or was that designed in to keep the motors as neutral as possible?


So, PBCC test drive day on Couch is when you say????????????

No, that’s the idea… that it should not require a lot of trim angle to achieve lift. The boat should fly at 2-3 degrees nose up and the motors should be as close to neutral as possible.

[beer30]

While everyone is beating the drum for Mark to be a sponser[what does it actually cost?] they might take a moment and check to see if their membership is current.There are a lot more of us than Mark.and Merry Christmas!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
NICK- isn't that the truth. :rolleyes: If you go to other top-notch web-sites, you pay UP FRONT. You can check out the web-site out alittle, but not the whole thing. Here there are no catches. Check the WHOLE site out. No ties, no charge. But people always look a gift horse in the mouth. This is what this world has come to!!!! :( Hey, what can I get for FREE, not thinking hey Greg gives us alot to look at for nothing. Then when Greg come on and says what he thinks. People answered him with disrespectful comments, that takes alot of nerve to come into somebody else's house and give them grief; Yet another product of this world. :rolleyes: A company that is producing boats, but doesn't want to sell them in U.S.A. This to me seems very strange to me. :confused: Does Cougar have the same feelings, somebody out there has to let me know. :eek: Chuck.

[RBT]

Cougar was sold to some people in the US
I don't think that Mark from Tuff would ever say that he doesn't want to sell stateside, just that logistics make it harder. It seems to me that boats sell close to where they are manufactured.
I started this thread to show how a boat is built from day one, to when it is wet. I asked Ted ( Rotorhead ) to add to it, I forgot my camera on the weekend so I could not contribute to it. I am also doing a similar post to this on STVOwners.com to show people that are interested how it is done. You would be supprised at how few actually know how it is all put together.
Posts like this I thought were good, there are not a lot of manufactures that will show all the details on how they build. And frankly, the only boat that impresses me is the Progression ( same as the Tuff ), and I was shocked at the Activator thread. Not that it is bad, just you pay a lot for less than I expected. The boat that the Tuff 21 is compared too most on this board ( Intimidator, and a hell of a lot of boat for the money ) is sold for about the same price as the materials to build a Tuff 21 or I suspect a Progression. People need to see this and know this, as not everything is apples to apples. Education is key.
I was going to show ( and still will if Greg wants it ), how a boat is built using the infusion process, the key to this here is I will do the next boat that John does it too. It could be a Tuff21, Tuff28, Talon22 or a SRV. None are advertisers here ( I think that Talon should be, as they are activly trying to sell ), and the SRV will be built by a guy that turns away work, so advertising is not gonna be big on his list.

I am not one to hold back much, you get most of my thoughts on stuff. It is walking the line, but I also figured there is more interest, then negativity. This boat is not really marketed toward this group.

RT

Merry Christmas to all.

[Scream And Fly]

Well said Rob.

As I mentioned, I think your posts on infusion would be great. You and I both know the details of great boat construction - that's one thing we have always agreed on. Like you said, education is the key. I think posts such as that are the very core of what this site is about.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Greg

[RBT]

Oh I should state that, so there is no confusion who builds what.
The Tuffs are owned by Mark, the lamintion is done by John Spaeth
The Talons are owed the Ted and Ted, the whole boat is built by John Spaeth
The SRV is owned and built be John Spaeth, who also ones Hydrostream ( outright ), and J-Craft under licence. John has nothing to do with these posts, and I don't beleive cares, he is an artist with more on his plate than I think he even wants.

RT

[Merc-Cruiser]

Just the way I like them...Straight-forward bottom design, without multi-step, "keep'n up with the Jones", sales gimmick driven, "latest & the greatest", HydroStream beak copied, Offshore this N' that bologna! It's a gentlemans sit-down, classy looking, performance Sportboat. Congratulations on a beautiful piece of plastic. ;) M/C

[David]

So, PBCC test drive day on Couch is when you say????????????


If there was such an event, I would host lunch at our Cooch Cottage.

[Instigator]

If you want to try a pair of O/B's I can lean on my Sonic motors quite a bit and let you know what I think ;)

[DPT Motorsports]

How is this first 28' going to be powered????? Would love to see how this bad boy would run with a set of 2.5 offshores or 300X's on the back.

[INXS]

I'm guessing at least $30-40K W/O power?
Competitive field with Progression, Checkmate, and others. I know Checkmate doesn't match up the same as these two but it's still a nice 28'er.

[taba]

tuff 28 + 400hp verado: SOB?

[DPT Motorsports]

To big for an SOB I think. Definately does not fit the class rules and besides Tuff makes a 21 based off of the original Challenger/Shadow design for the SOB. 28 feet and a single outboard would not yield high speeds but would probably do well in an offshore environment.

[RBT]

DPT, this first one is going to be displayed at the Toronto boat show with E-Tec's, but will most likely be rigged with a pair of 250XS mercs, or if Merc is doing a 300XS those will be the ticket.
I agree....... a pair of 2.5 would be a ball ( shorty motors would look real good on there too)


RT

[supervelocity]

Hurry up and rig that thing i want a test drive

[supervelocity]

ill drive up from the south shore of li to see that rig

[supervelocity]

it has been a long time coming for a hull like that, it needs to be matched up with a pair of twin merc's depending on weight the 2.5 or the 300. SAY NO TO I/O kids

[supervelocity]

no fridge, just some adjustable hp. setback and height this way the hydrodynamics can be optimized

[supervelocity]

if it was an outerlimits i would agree

[DoktorC]

I think Inline was refering to the Verado....

[supervelocity]

oh i agree, I miss understood you