Green Engine Racing?

[Stream 1]

I started this under ODBA Bass Boats, but thought it might make more sense as its own post.

I know this is going to start this thing in another direction and that no one wants to get serious about GREEN engines racing, but I think its time to start working with these engines. THERE ARE NO NON GREEN NEW ENGINES.

What about a class for stock, side steer lake boats, running a GREEN (2006 compliant) engine. Maybe a Mercury 200 XS on a 15 or 20" mid with a factory stock gear case (Sportmaster). Or maybe something a little hotter, I have another engine in mind, if I can get Mercury to play.

FBI has a similar class but it is not restricted to GREEN engines. You are only going to get engine manufacture support for racing if the class is restricted to engines they can sell. None of the engine manufacturers will support racing to sell parts and t-shirts for their old products. They can't use any of the racing promo stuff currently to promote their new current products thus the bean counters see no value. Racers may race for the love of it, engine manufactures need to be able to show stock holders and the board of directors sales/profit.

Besides, if everyone keeps racing the old 260/280/... they will soon be gone and so will outboard drag racing.

I think a GREEN class that will run 90+ would be fun, and those involved would have to re-think their game. The power, torque, rpm, and weight will all be differient. Right now how many hitters in any class could change boats and still be very competitive in their class in a short period of time? Almost all of them because everyone knows how it has to be. This could level the playing field and cause everyone to go back to work. It could also attract new boat owners who are buying these engines because they have no choice, and they don't want to run against the more powerful old engines.

Just some food for thought, I open this to comment, hopefully how to make it work and be interesting rather than negative. But I will listen to both. ;)

[Stream 1]

I think we really need to call Lake Racer what it is....which is essentially a replacement for 1600 lb. Modified. The boats in Lake Racer are so far away from what the average guy can realistically have as a lake boat that it's skewed the original intent of the class in my opinion. What's funny is that I've had several people tell me that Lake Racer is an "Entry Level" class....that's the furthest thing from the truth.

This may really shock people, but in my opinion, to make the class truly a way to grow drag racing, there needs to be compression and/or ECU limits - some way to truly make the stock motors competitive and a viable option.

We can sit here and talk all we want, but how many 2.5 EFIs are going to be around in 5 years? 10 years? We really need to start working with the manufacturers to come up with a class made up of motors that can actually be purchased. Either that or we'll continue to see the boat counts shrink. If things don't change quickly, bracket drags will be the only way to race since you don't have to turn 10,000 RPMs with your ski boat to win a race.

I'm all for keeping the pro classes exactly that (although they're going to have engine supply issues at some point perhaps), but in my opinion, ODBA is going to be hard pressed to grow the club (and the sport) if Lake Racer is their entry level class.
__________________
Sam Baker
[email protected]
Scaryfast Productions

Sam, right on target. Without engine manufacture support the sport will wither and die!
Jim

[Casey]

we have this class in the DSRA.


http://www.dsraonline.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3

[Slider]

We have a class in ABPA, it is called Super Sport. It is the only "Green" competition that I know of. As a matter of fact, we have a race at Lake Alfred this weekend. There are pros and cons to the class depending on the rules. To be green, you cannot modify the power head in any way on a 2006 compliant motor. The rest is setup and props. It makes things interesting. In the end, it is a reality that we are all going to have to face sooner or later... it may as well be sooner. It is getting to the point where you can find one of these engines at a reasonable price too. I'm not sure how many people are running out to buy a 200 XS, but the Fichts and Optimaxs have been around long enough. It won't hurt any organization to have at least one class that falls within the realm of practical :cool:

[CUDA]

Paul Freeman, Doc Tripp you got your ears on :D time to make a change, keep the pressure on folks they will have to break sooner than later ;)

[Stream 1]

Slider, Super Sport is a GREEN racing sport, but not drag racing or something the average boater can be competitive at with his weekend ski/lake boat. The boats that I saw running competitively are not side steer, 4 passenger boats used weekly for family boating.

I believe it will be hard to get new blood into racing if they can't start and be competitive with a multi purpose boat. How many people are going to spend $30,000 to $50,000 on a boat to race that is not practical for general family boating?

As a manufacture, I know why we are not a full sponsor of any organized racing, whether our boats are competitive or not competitive I can not sell enough race boats to justify the expense. We have sold over 30 Venom's in 10 months. Some are very fast, 3 are center steer, the rest are fast lake, 4 seat boats. Some of them are running GREEN engines, only one Venom is currently racing in organized racing. Do the math, I can not justify the expense.

When companys like Mercury do the math and can no longer get new engine sales or use the pictures and promotional material to promote new engines, they will stop their involvement.

If any organized racing wants boat or engine sponsors, they have to understand why a manufacture would spend the money, SALES! With as many Allison's, Traid's, and STV's that are at organized events ask Darris or Wally if it has paid back what they have spent and if their envolvement financially has decreased. The last two years Allison has shown their bass boats at Jasper, why? Sales opportunity!

I had a great time at Jasper, our one boat entry was fun to watch and be involved with, and for our first attempt we learned a lot. But for what we spent, there was no return, I did it because I love racing and I wanted to learn. But many of our Venom owners I have talked to since the race realize, that LAKE RACER/ODBA has no class for their boat, a four passenger, stock engine, family boat. We have an owner racing brackets, and while I like heads up racing better, I am directing our owners that direction and next year we will attend one of those events as a vendor. I have to go and spend support money at events that can return dollars. Green engines and stock lake boats can be competitive there.

I think any oprganized racing format, is going to have to change their thinking about GREEN engines and entry level classes if they want to grow their organization. The price of new boats and engines today is going to make it hard to attract race only, new people into the sport. But I would say 30/40% of our Venom owners and many of our Vegas owners would like to try their hand at racing, they just don't want to be a donor to the purse.

[Chummy]

Casey you got a Allison? Sorry to get off topic Jim, I really think it would be cool to see some green motors start racing, and even more a entry level class for racing. Attendance at the races is down (both racers and crowd) we need something going to get the interest back up or else there won't be be much more.

[GPI Racing]

Most all of what Jim C. is saying is very true. Sam Baker also makes great comments on the 'lake racer' problem as I see it. While Supersport is good it is not something that gets the guy off the lake. I have been tooting a horn about LAKE boat drag racing for a couple years now. At Barefoot Bob's yearly event we put together some drag races. 27 boats entered.....27! This is in the sticks in southern MN, not advertised, and not a 'national' event. If we can get that many to a backyard race and Jasper, which is the world championships, can only get little more than double that number, I think the time has come to look a little deeper at the entry level classes. Drag racing desperately needs a place for the average guy to go and race with the equipment he presently owns and the equipment he will most likely have in the very near future. If this is not addressed it will most certainly fade away. While some of you will say they have classes for so and so's boat already etc., the fact is that 90% of the scream and fly readers do not have a boat that would fit without spending a pile of money to be remotely competitve. What we do up here is group the boat based on performance not what they have for equipment. Brackets kind of, but for the most part fun. Most every race is within a few feet over the last 3 years. I'm done tooting the horn about it because nobody seems to want to take the effort to cement a future for the sport. The entry level is where new blood come from that builds up the existing classes. We have no feeder system in place to allow guys to try racing before spending the farm to go more serious racing.

Just my 2 cents, and I 'm glad to see others with the same concerns and passion for the sport.

Randy

[Slider]

Slider, Super Sport is a GREEN racing sport, but not drag racing or something the average boater can be competitive at with his weekend ski/lake boat. The boats that I saw running competitively are not side steer, 4 passenger boats used weekly for family boating.

I believe it will be hard to get new blood into racing if they can't start and be competitive with a multi purpose boat. How many people are going to spend $30,000 to $50,000 on a boat to race that is not practical for general family boating?





No, it isn't drag racing, but it is proof positive that it can be done. I would be willing to bet that a lot of new boats sold between 2000 and now were equiped with 2006 complient engines. From what I understand, Lake Racer was supposed to fit the 4 person weekend boat class that got blown way out of proportion. There seems to be a huge gap between the formula/vintage classes and Lake Racer. The DSRA class rules posted and FBI Vintage rules seemed to make pretty good sense to me. Throw a 2006 complient engine in there somewhere and you might have a race that will attract some new interest in the sport. It is probably a little early to have a "Green" class persay, but let them run where they might be competitive.

Please define the avererage boater that you are looking to attract. Are we talking about Nitros, Tritons, or other Fish-N-Ski boats or are we talking about Allisons, Triads, Quartershots, and Hydrostreams?

[CUDA]

You are NOT going to $crew up lake racer in ODBA to start a beginner class. We need to add a BEGINNER CLASS you do not want to fix something that is not broke. Lake racer is the only class that does not allow true race boats. and yes it is a serious class , ODBA needs a get your feet wet and not get :o killed by those of us that have been doing this for many years. ;)

[RNM018]

STREAM 1 , How much under $30,000.oo can you put togaither a Green motor Venom ? Just wouldn't make much sence to me to hang a $12,000.oo Green motor on my 25 year old Allison . As much as I have come to respect the E Tech and some others for there efficency , just wouldn't make much sence . Rich Martin 018

[Slider]

You are NOT going to $crew up lake racer in ODBA to start a beginner class. We need to add a BEGINNER CLASS you do not want to fix something that is not broke. Lake racer is the only class that does not allow true race boats. and yes it is a serious class , ODBA needs a get your feet wet and not get :o killed by those of us that have been doing this for many years. ;)

I don't think anyone is trying to kill Lake Racer. It has just grown into something that is popular and very competitive. Maybe someone else can comment on the original intentions of Lake Racer.

Anyway, there definitely needs to be a feeder class. There definitely needs to be some consideration for the "green" motors. I think that the older Fichts and Optis are coming into the average person's price range which to me is less than $5,000 for a complete engine. Maybe I am being optimistic :eek:

[CUDA]

Go by some boat ramps on sat or sunday and you will see some ---alot of VERY expensive bass boats, just get those involved that have rigs already . then they might say well I am going to get another boat to get serious ----- and move up into one of our regular classes. (OK I removed the my harsh remarks sorry) :o

[1BadAction]

stock everything as it came from the factory 150 HP low emission motors. open cockpit boat with room for 4 seats. 1600lbs min weight. Run the boats heads up. THAT would be a dead matched class.

if you want to get more technical, spec a lightning ET prop with no mods allowed.

[mike bryan]

if you want the manufacturers to be involved your're gonna have to show case their latest technology ie--- direct injection two strokes and four strokes.

[Balzy]

is right on. We need an entry level class of one sort or another. Green motor, old motor, whatever. Bottom line is, there is no class for the average performance lake boat. DSRA "Stock Bass Boat" is close but it's only for bass boats. Sorry but I don't have a working live well in my HST. :D :D :D

DSRA "Super Stock" is a great entry level class but 2.5 horn motors are not allowed. That leaves out a lot of us with High Perf motors on lake boats out.

As said before, most of us are not even close to being competitive in ODBA "Lake Racer" class. Could we make most of these boats competitive in Lake Racer? Sure, but most of us don't have the money to get there. It's just too big a step from a fast lake boat, to a competitive boat in that class. The guys running in that class are fast, real fast, and a lot of them only use those boats to race only, not go for a weekend of boating with the wife and kids. How many guys that ran the river run on Friday, raced Saturday or Sunday? Hmmmmm, you think it might be these guys we need to attract to drag racing to keep it alive??????????

I understand we can't make a fair class for every lake boat out there, but in the races we have pulled off in MN we got damn close to making a fair spot for everyone. And the important part is, everyone had fun !!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line is we need an entry level class or mabe two.

[BrentShaw]

Just my 2 cents,I know some people do not like bracket racing but here is a great example of a racing club that has classes for the beginner and boat type like what weveryone is talking about. They have an 12sec and 13sec class( RR1 & RR2 ) most lake boats would fit into one class or the other and be very competitive most boats with 260hp would run very well in the 11sec class( Stock Eliminator). Its not real expensive and you will not get beat by someone just because he has deaper pockets than you, get your boat dialed in to your class and its all about hitting the lights good and running your ET, again I realize some people do not like brackets but it is a place where most people with somewhat "hot" lake boats could find a class to run in. If you havent at least tried rope racing I would encorage people to try it. I hated it at first but now I've grown to like it you really learn alot about setting up your boat and making small changes to affect your ET's its alot of fun.

Like I said just my 2 cents,
Brent

[Ziemer]

I have been running the local FBI/Crescent City races this summer and it's been a lot of fun. It costs me roughly $300-$350+/- for the weekend to go out and race (that's including hotel/dinner/gas, etc.) and I have a "Lake" boat that run's in the Lake Racer class. When it's not racing I've got the family and coolers in the boat and we're on our local lakes.

Sam's dad, Ron and Bruce Ditto, in my opinion have done a great job in trying to put on these races and keep it fair for anyone wanting to race. Even though somebody's boat may not exactly fit into the rules for a particular class, Ditto tries to find a spot for that person. The three most popular classes are obviously the lower levels, Vintage, River Runner, and Lake Racer which I would consider all entry level. However they're lucky to have 6 boats in a class, a lot of which run more than one class. It seems that a lot of people want an entry level racing spot, but from I've seen this year (at least locally) there's still not the turnout I would expect.

As far as ODBA goes, wasn't the Pro 120 class an entry level class? We all know what happened to that. I don't think the average lake boater is willing to spend upwards of a $1000.00 per month to go racing, "just for fun". (Entry fees, travel, fuel, oil, etc.)

That's why it's become so competitive, because I know if I spend that kind of money to go racing, I don't want to be 2 and out. :D

How do we increase participation??? I don't know the answer, but I don't think ODBA adding an entry level and/or green engine class is the answer either.

(Man, that really got long winded :D , just my thoughts)

[Slider]

(Typing at same time Ziemer was)

Well, we have two things happening from what I see. I think we can all agree that there needs to be an entry level class. The second is ( I think ) 2006 complient engines. How do you combine the two and still get people excited enough to show up?

[msethsmile]

GPI says 'backyard' event' out in the 'sticks'. I am crushed. Move the event 45 miles south to IA and solve the stink factor, except for the hogs.

[CDave]

I think "local" orginizations are the answer be it independent of each other or taking an NHRA approach where ya have regional and national championships.

As far as being competitive, DSRA Super Stock is. They are pulling in around 20 boats at every race for SS and you will see STV's, Allisons, DR-20's, QuarterShot's, old Hydrostreams and Mirage's racing agianst each other. There's is even an orange Laser racing in SS. :D

The little I raced last year I learned ya not just gonna jump in and win. It takes alot of working on your set-up. And not every make of hull will be competitive. I got my butt whipped last year and learned real quick that I was in the wrong class.
I was gonna run a less expensive class, before my health went south. So for now I'm on the sidelines but if I can I will get back into racing some day.

Like everyone told me when I was getting started. Just show up with what ya got and pick a class to run. Get your feet wet and find out where ya wanna fit in after ya get a few races under your belt.

[neveredge]

Fact: There are 25,000 new bass boats sold in the U.S.A. each year. The vast majority of them have 2006 compliant motors on them. I think there are considerably less ski type boats sold but even those will start using green motors becuase they will have no other choice.

With a little bit of advertising to the target market I'm sure the attendance would sky rocket! A couple ads in Bass and Walleye boats and Hot Boat should generate some interest. They might even do a feature article on it.

It just has to be easy to get into. Make a couple of classes based on HP. Say a 225 class and a 150 class. Make the min. weight high enough to allow the common boater to be competitive. The only mods allowed should be for safety, IE solid mounts and nose cones.

All that said I have never raced but I can see an E-Tec hangin on the Bullet :D

[CUDA]

Very good input neveredge, I think we are getting somewhere .

[1BadAction]

i posted about this over a year ago... i guess im just a visionary http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68649

[RNM018]

Thanks CUDA , You just set me straight . I've been grass roots racing in Fl. for the past TEN YEARS . Your right though I sould just stay home and take the EIGHT Boats and Drivers I've recruted into this sport and just GO BACK TO THE PHUCKIN RIVER where I BELONG . Just let the rest of you Rich Bastard go play in your own SAND BOX . RICH MARTIN 018 :mad:

[Erick]

OPC also has a class called SST-200. The motor used is the OPTI MAX 200 XS. It is also a legal motor to run in SST-120.

[Sam Baker]

I'm going to throw my 2 cents into the same pot that Brent put his. The issues that people have with boat racing are typically cost (too much money for entry fee, travel, etc.), competition (they don't feel they can fight on an even keel with the other boats), and time (we're all pretty busy). I agree with Chris Ray - ODBA is not designed to be the starter series.

Bracket racing allows somebody to show up with a boat and race it. All you need is a kill switch, a paddle, a fire extinguisher, helmet, and life jacket. You don't have to change anything to your boat/motor, and you don't have to have any mods of any kind. The starts are fair (nobody can start until the clock hits zero) and because you're running by time, you're running against boats that are the same speed in the quarter mile. The last 3 years, I've had a boat that didn't fit into ODBA. I didn't ask them to change the rules, I just went racing where I didn't need to change my boat. I had a great time and won every race I went to with the St. Louis club this year.

If you want to try drag racing, it's the best way to go because the entry fees and membership fees are less expensive than ODBA and there are clubs all over the country (St. Louis, Kentucky, Texas/OK, California/Arizona) and maybe more than that. If you want to run Heads Up and you have enough boats, APBA, FBI (Florida), and DSRA would probably love to work with you to add a class. ODBA, however, isn't in the position to cater to every kind of boat on the planet - and they shouldn't.

Green motors would be awesome in the 12 or 13 second classes in St. Louis and most of the other clubs have a single class that will allow ANY boat running ANY time the opportunity to race because they run on a dial in. If your boat's 4 seconds slower than your competition...you get a 4 second head start.

So, the thing to do would be to get a bunch of green motor boats and/or bass boats together and agree to go to the same bracket race and see if you enjoy it or not.

[CUDA]

I hate to tell you RNM018 ODBA is not for everybody, we are not talking grass roots racing we are talking ODBA . I'll be at the FBI grass roots race this weekend if you want to talk . Are YOU going to drive around the county the way we do to race , well I bet the answer is no . Like others have said we need to run NEW 2006 type motors to get the support from the factories. I was in no way putting anyone down, and I am sorry if you feel that I was. All I really was getting at was the huge amount of bass boats all ready out there with newer motors that do not have a chance in hell to run with us in any class , and we should give them a chance because it is a win win situation. Keep racing grass roots that is GREAT and I commend you for doing it , and if you think you can hang try ODBA. But I don't see them starting a old motor low budget type class like DSRA but I hope I am wrong because I have been at the business meetings proposing this type of thing and got shot down so quick that I was sorry I even went. You know they probably could get rid of pro carb and start two new classes a new Rich boys class as you see it and a DSRA low budget type class I know the group and making these type changes if TOUGH. Like I said My whole reason for flying out of town to the business meeting was to fight for this type of low budget class and I got smacked down so quick I was pissed, you are mad at the wrong guy.By the way I live off my paycheck like everyone else and my investments are like a dream because I never touch that money I just roll it over , and when my parents died I had bills to pay not money to blow. They lived in my house near the end and one of my apartment buildings before that, I have worked seven days a week most of my life, and now that I am 51 I am starting to reap what I have sowed .

[Slider]

I hate to tell you RNM018 ODBA is not for everybody, we are not talking grass roots racing we are talking ODBA . I'll be at the FBI grass roots race this weekend if you want to talk . Are YOU going to drive around the county the way we do to race , well I bet the answer is no .

Last I checked, WE were talking about "green" engines. It is prabably a good thing ODBA isn't looking for new recruits. What is the membership to the Good 'Ol Boy club these days anyway?

WE are going Green engine racing this weekend at Lake Alfred.

[boatmanhp]

jim ,i agree with you,now there is not one engine manufacture in volved with outboard racing unless it is green and if you did bring a class in, the others might just follow, then the money that mercury,brp,yamaha,honda, suzuki all of the green guys can play with a even playing field, the first sanction that draws them end and sells the idea to them is the one who gets all the money and support,it might just be the explosion the performance market needs with green motors.if i was one of the officials on any of these sanctions i would be workin my butt off tring to sign contracts with them , it could be ODBA,DSRA,IHBA,SDBA and many more sanctions fightin to get that paper,for its all about money and profits, sells, not a weekend racer buyin a t shirt or a piston,there is dealers for that.for change in racing is here guys we can kill it or we can make it work for us for a long time.

[jphii]

Well, I just caught wind of a rumor going around at Jasper that BRP has started an outboard racing division. Runor has it that the Etec ignition and injection is 10k rpm capable. I'm getting this from the Boyz, so if anybody has heard anything, let's hear it.

[CUDA]

For those of you that have not heard their is a NEW WATER SPORTS channel that is comming out, they have bought ALL the old races that the outdoor channel had the right to, for past ODBA races. WE are really going somewhere this comming year and it is through the clouds into space accross the world ,these races will be replayed once a mo. yes twelve times a year. Now who do you think these outboard companys are going to give money to someone who will SHOW case their PRODUCT.------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YES ODBA Paul Freeman and others have been working on this for years and 2006 is going to BREAK NEW GROUND for OUTBOARD DRAG RACING. Hopefully you will see some REAL money if you win place or show. --------I get asked all the time how much money can you win , and my answer is do not even look at it that way because that is NOT what it is ABOUT. PRIDE is what it is about. Well in the future I might be able to tell them well our over all purse is $20,000 ---$ 35,000 per race divided up between eight classes. I can only hope, then you will see 150 boats at EVERY race. PS back in the early 80s when I raced NPA MVP they gave away $40,000 per race for 4 classes , if you can GIVE them TV coverage THEY will GIVE you MONEY!

[boatmanhp]

cuda,your on the right track i could not have said it any better,if you bring in more boats more money,but mercury is not about to give money out on some old coverage of some boat races,if it was a great demand the odc would not have sold them,that chanel will be airin ihba,apba,pwc,skiing,all sorts of water sports ,tv will not change boat drag races but the racers can,

[boatmanhp]

now i congradulate those that has worked hard for this.

[CUDA]

I Believe they will be taping all the races in 2006 the whole deal is not finished yet and I'll probably get scolded for talking but they will get over it ;) no one told me to keep my big mouth shut :cool:

[boatmanhp]

i hear that:D

[blkmtrfan]

Well, BRP has started an outboard racing division. Runor has it that the Etec ignition and injection is 10k rpm capable.

Very Interesting :cool:

[E-tec1]

the manufactures are fighting the emisions game, there is a 250 e-tec that runs 8000+ and runs with the merc 260, it is not known if it is 1 star ratable yet. if it is then there is a whole new game here. this ain't no slow boat from china deal either. BRP needs to know that there is a market for them to make money having one of these to offer.You can ask the guys at blarney how this ran(until we got too smart for ourselves)WE could test a whole night on 5 gallons of fuel,that's the cool part.I'd like to talk to some rules people about where this should fit in the scheme of things.we're talking stock e-tec ign,fuel,flywheel etc.it's when some mods were done we got stuck on some issues.

[Scream And Fly]

the manufactures are fighting the emisions game, there is a 250 e-tec that runs 8000+ and runs with the merc 260

I seriously doubt that. I would like to see that for myself.

-- Greg

[Jay R.]

why do you doubt that? oh thats right.... Merc boy

[Scream And Fly]

I find it hard to believe that an E-Tec can compete with an engine on the performance level of a 260 EFI. If it exists, I'll be very pleased. But until then, let's see some proof. Rumors never count.

[Jay R.]

Hey MTS1, where is this info coming from? you have any hard info on it??

[1BadAction]

who was doing the tuning? How did they crack the Bombardier EMM (with proprietary software)? Who makes the interface cable? That big heavy cast flywheel didnt give any problems at 8000? How do you make more power without increasing the airflow and fuel flow? what about the injectors movement speed at 6500+ rpm, when did they make that faster and how?

[E-tec1]

go to racineextreme.com and look at the blarney island race pictures, it exists!

[Scream And Fly]

I've been there and I never saw any cowl-off images of that motor. I did see a Mirage with a Ficht cowl on it. Is that the one?

[E-tec1]

I drove the friggin boat!

[chynewalkr]

ive seen it in person one thursday night, its for real.

[jphii]

I drove the friggin boat!

Still a rumor if none of the Merc guys saw it.:D:D:D:D

[1BadAction]

One of our team recently attended the Blarney Island Drag Races in Antioch, IL and spotted this race boat equipped with an Evinrude E-TEC 225HO. The boat reportedly pulls 85+ mph in 800 feet and tops out around 96mph!


so someone put a stock 225HO on a fast boat, and won in BRACKET races...

[Scream And Fly]

I would like to see a photo of it. I would also like to know how it does against a 260EFI. I'm not bashing in any way - I think something like this is interesting and I'm surprised nobody has posted about it previously (to my knowledge).


Greg

[E-tec1]

first motor was a ficht, wouldnt rpm, second year we ran e-tec block and innard carburated to test the rotating assy,that is the motor in the pic, the e-tec motor is an e-tec period!

[Scream And Fly]

I don't understand.

So, if we took a 2.5XS OptiMax and removed the compressor and injection system, installed a modified 260EFI intake and injection system, would it still be an OptiMax? I think that strains the definition.

Greg

[E-tec1]

pm me

[1BadAction]

who was doing the tuning? How did they crack the Bombardier EMM (with proprietary software)? Who makes the interface cable? That big heavy cast flywheel didnt give any problems at 8000? How do you make more power without increasing the airflow and fuel flow? what about the injectors movement speed at 6500+ rpm, when did they make that faster and how?

+1

so was the Etec modded, and if so who did it?

[CUDA]

I could swear we were talking GREEN motors , somehow I do not think a 260 is anywhere in the ball park .

[Scream And Fly]

I could swear we were talking GREEN motors , somehow I do not think a 260 is anywhere in the ball park .

I agree, that's why I became interested when it was mentioned that a green engine can run with a 260.

And a carb E-Tec isn't a green engine either. ;)

Greg

[E-tec1]

It's not carbed!!!! It is a 98% stock 2005 250 e-tec. maybe not 98% but close.

[Scream And Fly]

Sorry for misunderstanding - I thought you mentioned it was converted to carbs. Sounds really interesting. We'll talk about it more for sure...

Greg:)

[BarryStrawn]

Rumors never count.

I will refrain from digging up some old Verado posts;)

[jphii]

MTS1,

What I wanna know is what tripped you up? Fuel or ignition? Since you said you got too smart for yourselves, does that mean it was something that shouldn't have happened? Come on man, you can't leave it like that!

[jphii]

I will refrain from digging up some old Verado posts;)

Wait, you mean that 375 horse 500 pound Verado is a rumor?

[Slider]

Just went to Pubix for my beer :D You may continue!!!

[Scream And Fly]

Wait, you mean that 375 horse 500 pound Verado is a rumor?

I never mentioned that, but Mercury has experimented with them at over 400 HP. I also know a performance versions are being developed. That's not a rumor.

Exactly what they will be remains to be seen.;)

Greg

[E-tec1]

there are only three people that know what this motor is, I'm one, the other two are'nt tech reps. It's a good thing for boating, racing and the epa.

[us1ss]

I saw a 400hp version of the promax 300, at the same exact time they released the very first 300. They already had been testing the 400, but amazingly enough it never made it to production and it was being talked about as the future of the Mercury Racing outboards.

Unfortunately a lot of rumours are true, but that doesn't mean we will ever see them.

[Slider]

Keep them 2006 complient!

Keep them LOUD!!

The rest will fall into place!!!

[E-tec1]

the problem with the high horsepower, especially on smaller boats is that most of the general public is incapable of driveng the 4banger bayliners let alone a 70-100 mph boat, it's not the epa,cops,tree huggers etc, it's the lack of skill of most of the people that own boats.I see it every day, there were idiots driving across the race course on thursdays and it was marked.

[Slider]

the problem with the high horsepower, especially on smaller boats is that most of the general public is incapable of driveng the 4banger bayliners let alone a 70-100 mph boat, it's not the epa,cops,tree huggers etc, it's the lack of skill of most of the people that own boats.I see it every day, there were idiots driving across the race course on thursdays and it was marked.

That is just it... Those that can drive do! Those that can't drive, drive Bayliners. When it starts walkin... so do they! Nothin' says they need to know what the cones are for...

[CUDA]

WE NEED A GREEN CLASS IN ODBA TO GET MANUFACTURES TO GIVE US MONEY TO SHOW CASE THEIR PRODUCTS ON TV SO THEY CAN COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER AND GIVES US MORE MONEY AND GIVE MORE MONEY AND GIVE US MORE MONEY, SO BOAT BUILDERS WILL GIVE US MORE MONEY AND MORE MONEY AND MORE MONEY SO WE CAN BECOME EVEN MORE PROFESSIONAL BOAT RACING CLUB AND GET MORE MONEY AND BETTER TV COVERAGE BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE IT IS ---------------AT. thank you jjj ;) STICK WITH THE PROGRAM OR go start your own thread you to Greg :p (Hammer was one my old screen names but Greg wanted it :rolleyes: most people just call me BOSS)

[CUDA]

I just got off the phone with the BOMBARDIER factory technical sales representive for the whole st of Fl. ( GOOD friend for 25 years who has worked for OMC for 25 yrs doing the same job)and the Present answer is NO not at the present time BUT and here is the BUT, Bombardier will be out of the RED for the first time since they bought OMC. And in the past he always told me that NOT untill they get out of the red will they do any kind of racing. He gave me contact e-mails for the TOP people in the company and told me to go for it. This gentleman raced APBA drags for many years and IS BEHIND US and will go to Bat for us. THE FUTURE IS GETTING BRIGHTER ALL THE TIME stay tuned :)

[E-tec1]

No it does'nt exist, no they're not really doing it?,no they are'nt going racing?

[CUDA]

Bombardier has no race team at the present TIME------The reason they have not got involved was the LARGE debt they acquired with the purchase of OMC ,and the many many problems to fix like starting over from scratch! or worse if you new all the horror stories . BUT Bombardier is a VERY SMART corporation, they build high end corporate jets, high speed rail systems, boats , snowmobiles, atvs,motorbikes and the list goes on and on. Bombardier is always a leader in whatever they get involved in . (GO CANADA) I'll be willing to bet that if we come up with a GREEN class to showcase the new E-tech motors VS Merc VS Yamaha The sky is the limit--- all these companys already spend lots of money on BASS fishermen, now WE just have to give them a forum to showcase their products. Bombardier will be in the BLACK for the first time next quarter and the money will start to flow . :D BASS BOATS WITH GREEN MOTORS aaaaa

[EASY MONEY]

CUDA are you coming to race FBI this week end/ Seen some thing of that sort in another post

[CUDA]

No we just did a compression test and # 5 was 20 psi the Cuda was running on 5 cylinders last sunday . Not bad a dead heat with the overall champ for the year, on 5 cylinders she runs a little better on 6. My buddy wanted to put his 260 on it but I am too bummed out. See you in Nov .

[blkmtrfan]

Bombardier is a VERY SMART corporation, they build high end corporate jets, high speed rail systems, boats , snowmobiles, atvs,motorbikes and the list goes on and on.

I am not trying take anything away from Bombardier (as I think the direction they are taking is great) or say anything negative for that matter, more of an FYI:

The rec division (boat motors, ATV's sleds, etc.) is now a seperate company from the jet and train company. The rec division was sold back to the Bombardier family ;)

[E-tec1]

when bomb corp bought OMC they paid for the company in less than a year by dumping assets.blkfan is right,when it became BRP,which it is officially known as, they started over and aquired the running costs of the rec products. them not haveing free money to spend is a corporate mindset, not that it doesn't exist.

[CUDA]

I guess all the R& D and past problems was DIVINE INTERVENTION every thing is a easy fix right. Do you our your own business . In the past two weeks I had one employee cause me $ 10,000 in damage A 21,000 mile GMC 5500 truck he got it stuck and DESTROYED A DANA 80 rear end , and my three year old german loader no longer has ANY hydraulic hoses under it OR electrical wires he ripped them all off because some palm frons got wraped around the drive shaft and he did not want to fix the problem where he was at so he drove it to a nicer area to work, that has been in the shop for two weeks and god knows when it will be back in service. What I am getting at is YOU do not Know the whole story. A little bit of knowledge is DANGERIOUS . " A SILENT THREAT TO YOU YOUR CREDIBLITY IS MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. MOST ASSUMPTIONS ARE INACCURATE" Brian Koslow

[1BadAction]

DESTROYED A DANA 80 rear end

how in the hell does someone destroy a DANA 80? :confused: that guy must be a retard.

[Capt.Insane-o]

After studying how the injectors work amongst all the other goings on. The flywheel issue is a very easy task to get around. Glad to see there is some intrest sparked in green motor racing, it would be really nice to see a supersport class in the tour with the champ boats and sst 120s. I think that would spark up a great amount of interest.

[E-tec1]

Are you refering to me??????Dude I started working for OMC in 1982 quit in 95 own my own business, have no more employees and know as much about BRP's screw ups, problems,fixes for them problems and what going on now as Lin does. believe me ,there was deep involvement to get where we did with this project. if you wasn't refering to me then I just needed to vent anyway.making this motor was not a friggin cake ride in any aspect of the game!

[E-tec1]

if this posts, here's the boat running against a 280 with 260 electronics,SVS,etc in a 800 ft run