Hydraulic Steering

[4Him]

I have been considering for a while about upgrading from cable to the teleflex sea star pro hydraulic steering. I recently read an artilce in bass & walleye mag about this very thing. They implied pricing (with tilt) would be about $1,000.00. The install was done by Chris Bond at Crown Lesiure in Biloxi, Ms and I know Chris so I called to get the scoop. When he checked the price and called me back he asked if I was sitting down. Good thing! After adding everything, including tax, installed price was $1,724.00! This is $700.00 more than I was expecting. Chris did tell me that he only used kevlar hoses which were more and actually did not add but $180.00 for labor. I trust what Chris told me, but I thought some of you guys out there may know where I can buy this system for less. I would probably still have Chris install, but I was hoping for a better price on the system itself. I really like the B & W mag, but those guys really need to do a little more total cost research. Nothing fancy about the one I wanted. Basic bass boat system with the tilt feature so I know there will be more folks check on this that will be surprised.
Any help is appreciated.
Billy

[Sam Baker]

The tilt feature adds some to the cost. I know we installed a non-tilting system on a Javelin bass boat last year and it was about $1300 or so installed. Retail price is about $1000 just for the system. Sometimes you can get them cheaper, but when you're pricing them out, you can't rely on that and you pretty much charge the same no matter what.

If you shop around, you can probably find the seastar pro system with standard lines for about $900 or so.

Sam

[Greg Moss]

Rick here is your chance! Really E-mail Rickracer.com he willsave you money.He was selling them for about$750 but I think there has been a price increase. Still I think your friend Chris needs to lube you up before he gives you any more prices. The Kevlar hoses are not that much higher $40 dollars more than standard for a 16 foot hose kit! Retail on the Sea star complete kit is $950 plus kevlar hoses $990 The pro helm is not available in tilt helm. Only the 1.7 and 2.4 c.i. pumps are. The complete kit comes with the fill kit and 2 quarts of fluid.

[Rickracer]

I'm sure Mr. Bill will be happy, and no lube necessary.

[fastboat]

Buy the kit from Rickracer and install it yourself. I am not sure about the tilt wheel, but I did mine, myself, without tilt. The kit comes with great instructions. I am pretty handy with a wrench, but the install is easy, even for a novice. You will save money and be proud that you did the work. I think my Pro came with kevlar hoses, but I am not positive. Even if it doesn't, I am not sure you really need them. I talked with a tech guy at the factory, and he said that if a hose broke, you wouldn't take a hard turn.

[Rickracer]

Doesn't matter. I ONLY sell the Kevlar Pro hoses with Sea Star Pro Systems. Period. It's all in the price already, as is shipping. :D :eek: :D :cool:

[captcarb]

I have a Seastar Pro. Can you order the bolt that holds the cylinder to the tiller? I have decided to replace it every year.

Jim

[Rickracer]

I'll check on it in the morning. :cool:

[randy 77zt]

i am getting a sea star setup fom rick soon because i cant steer my mirage unless i let off of gas.the boat was rigged with too many bends in the steering cables.i checked out the new ranger bass boats at local merc dealer and they all had sea star as oem steering system.steering wheel moves like knife through warm butter with boat on trailer.

[Hunter]

You'll like your Sea Star Pro. It's one of the things on my boat that I'm tremendously satisfied with but...don't try installing it by yourself. Plan on one person to prime the helm unit, one to turn the steering wheel, and one to bleed the lines at the actuator. Promise beer for assistance. Also, read the instructions carefully on how the hydraulic lines connect; you wouldn't be the first person to install it backwards. Consider the full range of any jacking device before you make any final decisions on routing the lines.

You've just installed something that's a lot more complicated than cable steering and won't give a change in feel before it fails - it either works or it doesn't. Inspecting the fittings for leaks should be part of your safety walkaround before trailering AND launch. Also, there's the relief valve issue. Frankly, I don't know if when it goes it pops and stays open or just bleeds when exceeded then resets.

There are those who don't like hydraulic systems for the reasons above. I don't think I'd race a boat with hydraulic steering but I'm fine with it for rec use. To dismiss hydraulics entirely, though, would mean that you now have another reason not to get on a commercial carrier.

[Rickracer]

With the Sea Star Pro's 1500 psi relief valve, when the pressure is exceeded, it only opens long enough to get the pressure back below 1500 psi, much like a pressure regulator in most any fuel injected motor. It amounts to the wheel turning a bit more than you would expect. :cool:

[Hunter]

Makes sense!

[Rickracer]

That bolt is a whole $3. Let me know when and how you want it. I can have it drop shipped to you whenever you like. :cool:

[4Him]

Thanks for all your replies gentlemen. It's nice to know there's help when you need it. I ordered the Sea Star system from Rickracer yesterday afternoon. Great price!!! Anxious to install.

I now have for sale: Very good condition...Teleflex NFB dual cable rack system. Includes: dual cable rack, tilt helm, 2 - 13' cables and engine tilt tube and bracket that fits Yamaha. 1 of the cables just purchased last year. $225.00 OBO.

Billy Farr

[H2Onut]

Hey Rick,

How many Hyd systems is that now, my godness, you might need to start stocking them things. I HATE CARPET GLUE !!!!!!!

Guy about trim tabs, looked some more, THAT WAS THE PRICE FOR TRIM INDICATORS...I laughed my fliipin ars off!!!

You still da man ! Never a doubt in my mind!

[Rickracer]

If da man wants trim indicators, I can get him those too, but he might want da tabs to hook em to. Hehehehe:D

[nelsoncat]

So how much is the SeaStar pro now, shipped to Wisconsin? I am either going to need longer cables(those better RideGuide ones you were talking about a while ago) or the Sea Star.
How much are those cables. The length would be Vector with right hand steering and 6" setback.
Thanks
Nelsoncat

[Rickracer]

The Sea Star Pro is $800.00 delivered to your door, shipping included. The 16' Rideguide extended life cables should be $121.00 each + shipping. If you want the standard cables, they are $104.00 each + shipping.

[Wiski]

Three buddies of mine, and myself are all going to install Pro systems this spring... hulls are all 20' Hydrostream Voyagers, 2 with Yam, 2 with Merc, don't know if that makes a diff?

Can you shoot me a price for (4) COMPLETE systems (no tilt), shipped to central Wis.? Can we save enough with shipping multiple units to pay for the installation beer?

[Rickracer]

That price would be $3200.00 for 4 systems. This is a bare bones price available only through me, and shipping is actually no charge with the particular source I use. I cannot take a dollar less no matter how many of these systems I sell at a time. You will not find what I sell for any less anywhere on the planet. It is about $50.00 less than the closest competitor, $100s less than average, and the service is unmatched. How can you lose? :cool:

[Wiski]

Thanks Rickracer.

I will print this thread, and hang on to it. Most likely you will hear from me in a couple of months. About how long will it take from time of order till I get them in my hot little hands? Is the supply "scarce" in the spring vs ordering now?

Looks like the beer is on me... again.

[Rickracer]

....or next day if the order was placed late in the day. The rest is up to OOPS, I mean UPS. Probably 3 to 5 working days, unless you request priority shipping. :cool:

[Rickracer]

And there are about 50 kits available right now to ship within a day or two. I doubt that the supply will drop below 50% of that in the busiest part of spring. There shouldn't be any problems with just 4 kits. :D :D :D

[4Speed]

With Hydraulic steering if you have wheel mounted Jack plate & Trim buttons will they remain at the 3 & 9 oclock position or will they over time drift to the 12 & 6 position thus wraping all the flex cord around the helm. Reason is I have a JD lawn tractor with hydraulic steering and the spokes rarely return the the same position when driving.

[Rickracer]

They will drift. That's why Teleflex recommends "equidistant spokes", and the ProTrim or ProTrim Dual jack and/or trim controls. I have those too, if you need them. I know you've got a nice wheel, and there's no need to change it unless it upsets you that it isn't clocked right all the time.

[MTCM]

Gentlemen,

I have been contemplating installing the Sea Star Pro on one of my boats as well. From what I can tell, it would appear that the cylinder will not reach the "squared-off" type tiller on my 93 2.5 260. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Is there something I am missing here or is there another piece that has to be used?

[Rickracer]

I'm checking on that right now. I'm sure I've sold systems to folks with 260s before, but I'm not certain if they were the same year as yours. The HC5345 is supposed to fit '89 to date 40 thru 275 horse Mercs and Mariners, but if not, I'm pretty sure the HO5035 adapter($65.00, no shipping charge) would take care of that. :cool:

[captcarb]

I have a 93 260 with Sea Star Pro. It was on it when I got it so they may have replaced the tiller.

Jim

[captcarb]

My installation looks like this: (the arrow points to the bolt that holds it to the tiller.)

Jim

[us1ss]

In my Supersport boat I use the Seastar Pro and I use the turn signal style trim switch. I use the double arm one that is designed for one side trim and one side for a jack plate. This works great for this application and those switchs are holding up very good, I use the heck out of them. Mike

[Wiski]

Rickracer...

What is the HO5035 adapter, and will any of these motors require this or another adapter?

1990 200 Yam
1990 225 Yam
1997 225 Merc Pro-Max
1995 200 Merc Pro-Max

Do the kits come with EVERYTHING needed to install? I have heard conflicting info on this in the past?
Thanks.

[Rickracer]

And are complete. You might want to get a filler kit if you're doing 4 of them. The HA-5438 filler kit is $13.00. I'm not certain about that adapter, it looks like it's for tying in tie bars for dual or triple installations. I'm still waiting for word from Teleflex about that 260 installation.

[dennymac]

MTCM, the steering will hook up just like the pic captcarb has shown...it will bolt in the center hole just at the end of the squared off piece...the adaptor was needed on the old style sea star pro system that isn't sold anymore, you won't need it...another tip..turn the fittings horizontal for the hoses...the helm unit rotates up and down a lot as it turns...as far as hoses, maybe i'm lucky, but i'm still running the stock hoses i bought in 1990...and they're not kevlar....i also use the turn signal style trim switches and have not had any problems....if you leave the switches on the steering wheel, in about 5 minutes of driving the cords are going to be wrapped tight around the steering hub....

[MTCM]

Denny Mac, Rickracer, and the rest. Thanks for the info. Rickracer......if you can verify that the cylinder will reach the "squared-off" 260 tiller you may sell another one......

Thanks guys

[Greg Moss]

the bolt mounts in the hole directly above the tilt tube It is the same tiller that they use on the fishing motors and it works fine.the only reall difference between the tiller on the fish motor and the 260 is the size of the motor mount bolt holes. I have installed a ton of the on both kinds of motors.

[Rickracer]

Since I have yet to install one of these on a Merc 260, I have to defer to Greg's experience, or to the technical folks at Teleflex who I haven't heard back from yet. I should hear back from them tomorrow, but I sooner trust Greg's advice anyway. :cool:

[nelsoncat]

Rick,
You said 89 up, what about a 1978 1750; will it work on these older v6 mercs?

Nelsoncat

[Rickracer]

I am certain the HC5345 cylinder (the one in the kit) will fit that motor. I believe the year cutoff applies more to the lower HP motors. :cool:

[Danny McManus]

Mike Muldrow is right on (as usual) most of the teams in the APBA Super-Sport class are running the Sea-Star steering system, and in circle racing they really give it a hard turning workout! No problems reported after thousands of collective laps in competition...you won't regret installing it

Danny McManus
Super-Sport #15

[Greg Moss]

The reason it doesn't include the older v-6s is that the hole for the cylinder to bolt to the tiller is not there. all you have to do is drill and tap the hole to accept the bolt over the tilt tube.

[Rickracer]

It sure is great to have guys like you around here. I hope one day to have the experience and know-how that you do, but until then, I'm just gonna keep saving folks money on the parts they need. Thanks again :cool:

[Steve Zuckerman]

Guys:
This Sea Star Pro is the only way to go for high perf boating.
Hard to convince some of the locals, they must like fighting
steering wheel torque all day. Some smart guys also say it's
heavy. HMMM.....the helm is a little heavier than mechanical
units, but I think two Kevlar hoses are lighter than two stainless
enclosed cables.
I've run it on my last three Mirages (2 Jaguars, 1 Q Master) and
Bullet. I wouldn't run anything else. I race sanctioned drags, and it's held up to 500 HP, so I'd say it's pretty well engineered.
The solution, although costly, to the no zeroing issue is the CRT
helm unit. I use it in conjunction with the CRT steering wheel
with equidistant spokes and rocker switches on each spoke.
The only downside I've ever run into is that you have to look over
your shoulder on the holding rope to make sure that the motor
is aligned since there's no way to tell from the steering wheel
position. Doesn't sound like an issue, but try it with a Lifeline and
a helmet restraint and you'll see what I'm talking about. Not an
issue at "idle in" starts like ODBA.
Go for it, you'll be glad you did, and wonder why you didn't do it
earlier!
Steve;)

[H2Onut]

As there is a mech device for trim angle, for you race guys it would seem that a guage could be hooked up to show position of motor ? so that at a start you would see the position before hitteing the gas, Is there such a critter, or maybe a trim indicator could be modified, Heck I dont know?

[Rickracer]

It would just take some fabbing of a bracket to hold the cable and attach it.
:cool:

[BarryStrawn]

You would want to be absolutely certain there is no possibility of your indicator ever hanging up or jamming. Could be a serious safety hazard. I don't know why a mirror wouldn't work to check position of the engine.

[Greg Moss]

sometimes we over look the simplist things LOL I would not want anything that may bind hook up to my steering either I would vote for the mirror also.

[Rickracer]

That was my first thought too. But if the cable was thin and flexible enough, the SSP would be able to just break it or bend it out of the way if it did jam up.

[captcarb]

I've been thinking about this mirror for the Mirage. (the second one down on the page)

If you run the cooling telltales out the side you can see them too.

http://www.rdent.com/pages/mirror.html

Jim

[john w]

what are the advantages of hyd vs cables i am a new allison owner 1989 xb 2002 with a 260 efi i need to purchase new cables for the duel ride system .i think the cables are the original ones that came on the boat. learning to drive this boat is scary enough ,bad cables make it even worse.rick racer i would like to more about hyd steering.if i purchase it from you does that include the turn signal type trim system.and all parts to make it work. if i decide to replace the cables do you sell them and how much are they. thanks for your help i am kinda clueless with this being a new ally owner.

[H2Onut]

Mirror seems simple and functional. I have a slow brain, things are reverse imagine in mirror. I would turn the helm the wrong way ...LOL

But a mirror, wont break and is inexpensive. Always a simple answer, just have to get more heads involved. Good call!!

[Greg Moss]

After you drive all day with cables your pretty wore out. After you drive all day with Hydralics you are ready for another day of it. Big difference you would never hate yourrself for changing to it

[H2Onut]

Looks like the Sea Star Pro is the way to go. I wonder how many crushed aluminum cans it takes to get $800.00 ?


Have heard only good things, IF there is something that would go south on ya what would it most likely be?
Hyd lines, the helm or the ram itself.

Do they make rebuild kits for either, The ram I imagine would just be seals and O-rings.

[Greg Moss]

I have had mine for over 5 years and the only thing I have had problem with is one of the seals on the cylinder would drip fluid when it got cold out. Teleflex has a repair kit for it you are right nothing but o-rings and 2 end caps. Can be fixed in less that 1/2 hour. tThe kit even come with the spanner wrench for the end caps.

[MTCM]

attached to the dash. I have a Mirage RR that now has the Morse Command dual rack/cable system. What kind of mods have to be made to the dash. There is not a lot of room to enlarge a hole up there. Will the new helm hide all the ugly left over from the old stuff? What about bezels and hubs. I know that Rex Marine has a billet aluminum hub especially for the sea star helm.

Next question...........I suppose the hoses are routed the same as the old cables right. In my case out the hole in the right rear side to the cylinder.....or is there some other way?

I wonder if someone could post some "real world" pictures of the installation.

Thanks guys, you have provided some good info here............just need a little more.

[captcarb]

I don't have a picture of it, but on my Mirage the hoses come out throught the fairing, same as the trim pump hoses. The hole and bezel in the deck on the starboard side where the cables came through has nothing in it now.

I have found the bolt that holds the cylinder to the tiller arm loose on a couple of installations. It is a good thing to check every time out. It is easy to see.

The Sea Star was on my boat when I got it. It had dual cable on it previous to that and nothing shows around the helm.

The installation looks much easier than cable to me.

Looking in the mirror and straighteneing the motor seems natural to me. I have not turned it the wrong way. You can back up your car looking the mirror, right?

The helm pictures and dimensions are at:
http://www.seastarsteering.com/HELMS/Helms.htm

Jim

[Rickracer]

If you can either post or email your cable length, I'll respond in kind with prices. If anyone wants helm installation diagrams, I can email them. I'll have to look later on and see if I have any good pics of an installation. The kits I sell don't come with the blinker type trim switches, but I handle them also, so I can include one in your order. There is the PT1000P single, and the PT2000P dual blinker style. Lots of good info being shared here, thanks again Greg!

[MTCM]

I think I have enuff info to make a decision on this. Rickracer....as soon as I figure out the best way to route the hoses and how long they need to be, I will call.

"Hats off" to all you guys, especially Jim (captcarb) down in Florida.

[captcarb]

You are not that far from me. Come on down and take a look at it if you wish. If I am not on the water I am usually home.

Jim

[billyboy]

I recently purchased seastar HK 6324 A. What is the difference between this and the Seastar PRO ? I havent installed it yet. Bill
PS, try website www.stainlessmarine.com for mechanical engine trim indicators.

[Rickracer]

The Sea Star Pro kit # is HK7400, and the hose kit is HO57XX, with XX being the hose length. It comes with the HC5345 front mount cylinder. The key to the SSP is the helm and hoses, any balanced Teleflex cylinder will get the job done. The SSP helm has a 1500 psi relief valve, where the standard ones are 800 psi. The kit you have will have a standard helm unit, and I'll have to check the book on which cylinder you have, because I've never sold a standard Sea Star System. You probably have the standard hoses as well. :cool:

[Rickracer]

The HK6324 would be a standard Sea Star kit with 24' hoses. The helm unit is HH5271, and it will have a HC5345 cylinder. :cool:

[billyboy]

Yes, it has the standard helm model # HH 5271, cylinder HC 5345, an the hoses are # 148048 and are marked 1000 I assume for the psi. I'm planning on installing it onto my Center Console Angler 22' (made in Miami) with a Merc 250 efi. Do you think I should upgrade to the Pro, or will what I have handle this rig? Thanks for everybodies input. Billy

[Rickracer]

I think that you will be happy as a clam with that system. The Pro Hoses don't come any longer than 18' anyway. :cool:

Correction: I can have custom Kevlar hoses made up, even with waterproof bulkhead fittings built in, but it's a process that takes a few weeks, and costs a few more bucks. :rolleyes:

[dan agnew]

this is a little late but monday we installed a replacement ram on a walkaround oceanpro v-6. anyway while looking at the throwaways[instructions] that the pro system has 4 turns lock to lock while the std system has 3.5 turns. we always tried to get the quickest turning helms. with a v-6 why not run the quicker helm with the pro ram and hoses?
just wondering

Danny

[Rickracer]

The cylinders are the same for the Sea Star and the Sea Star Pro, the helm is the difference. Both take the 5345 front mount(balanced)cylinder for almost all current applications. The Pro Helm has a 1500 psi relief valve as opposed to the 1000 psi relief valve setting of the standard helms. My warehouse once sent a standard helm instead of a Pro helm by mistake, and the customer called a few days later wondering why he had to keep turning the wheel to go straight. We went over the bleeding procedure, and he had done it right, so that's when we started checking numbers, and figured out what had happened. We swapped out the helm for the Pro, and no more problems. :cool:

[billyboy]

In my instructions (good term: throwaways). It says my STANDARD helm (modelHH5271) takes 5 turns. bill

[Rickracer]

For those who'd like to learn the intricacies of the different helms, here's a link:
http://www.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm?../OUTBOARD/FRONT_MOUNT/F_Mnt.htm&1

Go to "quick reference" at the top of the page, and click on helms. As you can see, there are different volumes, 1.7CF, 2.0CF, and 2.4CF, and this is where the number of turns come in, coupled with the volume of whichever cylinder you may be using. Whatever the volume of the cylinder, the number of turns will be the total of volume it takes to fill the cylinder. The more turns there are, the more "leverage" you have to turn the wheel, but this requires a greater number of turns of the wheel per degree of steering movement. I bet I've just made this clear as mud. :p ;) :D :cool:

[B.Leonard]

Yeah baby! $500 less.

Rick, I got the steering stuff the day after it was sent. That 4.2 helm is HD! I'm impressed! I was not expecting it to be that heavy and solid! Nothing like the chinsy "Safe-T".

Still waiting on the dual cable bracket kit. The steering, floor and trim switches will be finished this weekend.

-BL

[Looper]

Ok, I knew I had seen this somewhere. This is what I need. Why isn't it on the Teleflex web site? (At least I can't find it.) How much for the helm/cables/Omc bracket? I need to be able to steer at WOT. Also would be nice if someone (wife) could pull me skiing without getting the wheel yanked out of their hands.
Don't think I have room for the NFB dual Rack.

[Hydrovector]

I just bought NFB dual set up for my Euroski. It takes less room than the older style of duals that are seperate cables. I hoping that it works good too. I got it for 285.00 and it is on the Teleflex web sight. look for model NFB Pro I think it's 151 or 152 models.

[Rickracer]

I'm having some puter problems and can't get to my warehouse online, but I'm pretty sure I can do better than that. I should be able to do the dual rotary for about the same money. The dual cable bracket kit is 157.00 + about $6 or $8 shipping. Shoot me an email sometime between now and tomorrow, and I will check pricing and stock for sure and let you know. :cool:

[B.Leonard]

$157 :eek:

I didn't check my statement/invoice. Let me correct my math... yeah baby, $300 less! :rolleyes:

Still thats quite a bit. :cool:


-BL

[Looper]

Quotes pls.