Verado

[Blizz]

I heard something interesting this weekend and wondering if anybody with some inside friends can confirm or not. Iheard Merc was going to dump thier supercharger for a turbo in the next couple of years, there r a few reasons i heard of course a turbo weighs less than half of a roots style blower will burn cleaner, and someone said that the way it's set up now it take way to much horsepower to turn the supercharger IE only 250 HP. Maybe on the 400HP thier testing???

[David]

It seems wrong to me. Mi thinking is that off idle, with no exhaust flow to make the turbo spin, a turbocharged motor would be weak compared to a supercharged motor. Maybe a weak bottom end powerband is OK for a ultra light boat, but that isn't the Verado market.

[1BadAction]

theres no way... the plumbing it would need is impossible to fit without being under a humongous cowling, and turbos are hot running, 1200degrees+plastic=melting. not to mention the turbo and required Intake/exhaust induction is HEAVIER than a supercharger. You can be running a verado WFO, shut it off, pop the top cowl and the intake is ice cold.

the supercharger that Merc uses isn't a normal in-efficient roots. its a Lysholme Style supercharger... a Lysholme will put out more at bottom end, better midrange, and be close to the efficiency of a single turbo and give more useable (cool) boost than the verado could ever take.

[Blizz]

It's very efficient it just robs to much horspower trying to turn it. But there are ways to shield the heat i work on fighters and there's lots of light weight insulations that would work. But again this is just what i heard. Oh yeah look forward to some sort of catalytic converter also. (again rumor). And from what i can find according to who you talk to superchargers do not make instant boost and a new high end turbo will put out boost at the same rpm's as a roots or lysholm style blower.

[Scream And Fly]

I heard something interesting this weekend and wondering if anybody with some inside friends can confirm or not. Iheard Merc was going to dump thier supercharger for a turbo in the next couple of years, there r a few reasons i heard of course a turbo weighs less than half of a roots style blower will burn cleaner, and someone said that the way it's set up now it take way to much horsepower to turn the supercharger IE only 250 HP. Maybe on the 400HP thier testing???


Not true.

[hsbob]

you would think merc r&d would have tried both before settling on the super charger. they would never be able to recoup the developement cost if in a couple of years they switch. land & sea had a turbo kit but the turbo was always exposed.

[sho305]

Who knows what they do (not me), but offhand a swap would be lots of work. They would have to come up with completely different programing and packaging for the motor, and address very high exhaust heat levels at continous WOT a blower does not have. I'm sure they can waterjacket the turbo or whatnot like other boat apps do. In such a compact package I would guess it was easier to use the blower, just a guess. With a turbo the heat can be a more difficult problem to get rid of if you don't have any breaks for it to cool (meaning it costs more). Beyond that I'm sure it would make as much power as the motor can stand, but Merc has to sell it and make a profit including service costs...and needs durability in this product to satisfy customers. The new variable vane turbos have better response, but they had those over 15 years ago (spirit RT? I know chryco had them) and didn't use them due to cost I thinks...so they are not really new. They do work really nice with todays advanced electronic controls if someone does the complex development. I thought the new 6.0 PSD had one. You would also need an aperatus to facilitate cool-down on the turbo if someone was WOT and then shutdown quickly, like an oil/water pump on a timer.

[Blizz]

Well how much power do you estimate the Verado would make naturally aspirated? Because it takes approximatly 90/95 HP to turn a Lysholm supercharger..

[1BadAction]

it takes approximatly 90/95 HP to turn a Lysholm supercharger..

100% not true.

[blazer200]

I heard something interesting this weekend and wondering if anybody with some inside friends can confirm or not. Iheard Merc was going to dump thier supercharger for a turbo in the next couple of years, there r a few reasons i heard of course a turbo weighs less than half of a roots style blower will burn cleaner, and someone said that the way it's set up now it take way to much horsepower to turn the supercharger IE only 250 HP. Maybe on the 400HP thier testing???

I spoke with mercury racing this morning,they didn't mention dumping the super charger but they are working on a 375 horse verado race motor........damn that things gonna weigh a ton.

[Billy-B]

All's I can say is that I purchased a 275 Verado and it's the nicest and quitest OB i've ever owned.

[MX-14]

I spoke with mercury racing this morning,they didn't mention dumping the super charger but they are working on a 375 horse verado race motor........damn that things gonna weigh a ton.


Literally!

[1BadAction]

you people make yourselves sound like morons... the "high perf" verado will be lighter than the standard motor, not heavier, and also have less weight on the transom and more in the boat.

now lets see 15 more people that have ZERO experience with the motor tell us how big of a piece of sh!t and how heavy the new one will be :rolleyes:

[jphii]

When do you think it's going to happen?

[sho305]

you people make yourselves sound like morons... the "high perf" verado will be lighter than the standard motor, not heavier, and also have less weight on the transom and more in the boat.

now lets see 15 more people that have ZERO experience with the motor tell us how big of a piece of sh!t and how heavy the new one will be :rolleyes:

Thats right ZERO experience. From my performance standpoint all I need to know is weight and power. People been waiting over 50 years for a 4 stroke that can even be comparable to a 2 stroke in weight and power. It has not happened yet. What makes you think that it will now? On top of that billions have been spent on 4 stroke technology by the automakers to put it way ahead...and they still can't do it.

I'm not saying 4 strokes don't have their good points and good uses, but we are talking +/-100mph <20' lightweight boats here for the most part. And aside from a shorter leg and maybe different cowl, why would the morons at Merc not use light parts on the current motor if they had them? Well of course they would because they are not morons. So the odds are very high any weight savings will be marginal, and weight is all the motor in or out of the boat as it will still affect a light hull. If they do make a 4 stroke like that, I'll be the first to jump up and say holy f* is that great! I just don't know how you do it with all those extra parts you will have, not to mention a power adder/cooler too. If they get closer that is good, but still does us little good for our use.

[1BadAction]

People been waiting over 50 years for a 4 stroke that can even be comparable to a 2 stroke in weight and power. It has not happened yet. What makes you think that it will now?

power to weight.- lets look at the real numbers and not BULLSH1T. 560 rigged for the 3.0 250, and 660 rigged for the verado, fishin motor VS fishin motor adding 50lbs for rigging to both advertised weights. verado is 2.4lbs per hp, regular motor is 2.24 lbs per HP. thats damn close, and thats comparing a motor without all the nice features, if the 2 stroke had electro-hyd steering and DTS, it would probably have a worse hp/weight.



I'm not saying 4 strokes don't have their good points and good uses, but we are talking +/-100mph <20' lightweight boats here for the most part.

the original verado was not intended for a less than 20' boat, is that thought that hard to understand? it was made to be ultra smooth, quiet, and easy to use. Merc doesnt care about the small boat high perf market. why should they? i doubt they have sold 60 drag motors since they started making them. There is legitimate bitches about even a light weight verado on a light hull/constant high rpm application, but the weight isnt one of them. I gurantee that the tilt/trim will be standard 3L stuff too, none of that goofy single attach point stuff.


If they do make a 4 stroke like that, I'll be the first to jump up and say holy f* is that great! I just don't know how you do it with all those extra parts you will have, not to mention a power adder/cooler too. If they get closer that is good, but still does us little good for our use.

high perf, 1.6 lbs per HP ... its coming, and it will be a supercharged inline 6. :eek:

btw- 300x is 1.86 lb/hp and the 280 is 1.6 :eek:

[THE FAST ONE]

Hey Man ,love That Avatar,looks My Uncle Willie,boats Gearing Up For 4-strokes ,it Seems,longer,wider Pads ,little Heavier,etc. Even Allys.--ed

[blazer200]

Mercury is not going to turbo,I'm a merc dealer and spoke with merc racing the other day and they ARE working on a 375 horse verado and the big problem they are running into is the damn thing is so heavy.

[Stinky]

spoke with merc racing the other day and they ARE working on a 375 horse verado

:D Your funny :D

[aircraftman]

Verados will be on allys and the such. soon!!!
eating up 2.5's

gotta happen!

[blazer200]

:D Your funny :D

I'm not joking man thats the truth.straight from merc racings mouth.

[Stinky]

I'm not joking man thats the truth.straight from merc racings mouth.


:D Now your even funnier! :D :D

[sho305]

So they are going to run an I6 Verado that weighs more than the 275hp and put it on existing 20's like allisons? Looks to me the only way is the I4 verado and it will not have that kind of power. I'll believe it when I see it! The laws of physics still apply...can't have a supercharger, valves in heads much bigger to house them, cams, lifters, springs, cam drives, and intercoolers that weigh 0 lbs. You will need a smaller motor that makes much more hp/L than the 2 stroke does...that is why it takes a 400cc motorcross bike to get even with a 250, near twice as big. (or whatever the exact numbers are)

I never said the verado was a POS. It seems to work well on a larger boat from what people here are saying, and I would make a pretty good guess that is just what Merc made it to do...just like they are using DI XS motors to replace the 2.5s..and not telling anyone Verados will replace the 2.5. Sure you can make a pad wider, stronger transom, change the hull and fit a heavy motor onto a hull that could not do it before...but it is not the same. You can put a V6 on a viper too, but how many want to run it around WOT?

Quote--"power to weight.- lets look at the real numbers and not BULLSH1T. 560 rigged for the 3.0 250, and 660 rigged for the verado, fishin motor VS fishin motor adding 50lbs for rigging to both advertised weights." ---"There is legitimate bitches about even a light weight verado on a light hull/constant high rpm application, but the weight isnt one of them. "

How many people are running 3.0s on <=20' perf boats? I don't see many. I don't see many 3.0s on STVs, allisons, etc. If they could get the rpms more might, but the 3.0 is still darn hefty at 100lb less than the verado for that kind of boat. Verado can't get the rpms either. Looks to me like the same reasons nobody here wants a V8 OMC, too hard to make it work. None of those motors are much good for less than a SOB or skater boat, without substantial setup work anyway and still you would likely have compromised handling. Man, I don't know where I've been, but nearly everything I've read on this site for over 3 years has been bitching about heavy new motors; 2 or 4 stroke, carb, EFI, DI, or whatever they are all too heavy excepting the race type motors.

Some of you need to talk to the guys that build those big hp offshore motors that make 700, 1000hp or more from a BBC w/blowers or turbo. There has been more development on that engine design likely than most any other. Ask them how many hours those motors run before service, how much they cost. Even the expensive ones don't last long. Merc might make a race version verado, but I'd bet it will be much like the drag 2.5 in that many will not want it for the short life. Problem is there is much more to freshening one of those, much more stuff to take apart, etc. And it all has to be perfect to live. The avantage of the chevy motor is huge availability and aftermarket to keep costs down and plus everyone knows all about it. A whole pile of shops can fix up your ~800hp SC Merc I/O if it needs it. Make a special motor like the verado and you will not have that. Everyone already bitches about high costs on the few 2.5 parts they have to order...and that is an old motor that you can even get some aftermarket and used parts for.

You might be right some day 1BadAction, I just don't see it yet in this context or really any other performance area. We only have all the 4 strokes now because the politicos are shoveling them upon us. I'd love to see a new road bike perform with a current 800cc sled motor.

[stoker2001]

it was rigged on a brand new carbon kevlar layup 22' Eliminator daytona tunnel with 18" setback bracket.prop was a 26" bravo1 four blade thru hub without any ventilation holes.it planed quick,and the acceleration was impressive!!he said he has tested with 30" bravo in the past and has run 85mph with non coned lower?boat does have a slight porpuse problem tho

[blkmtrfan]

boat does have a slight porpuse problem tho

Who rigged it?

18" seems like alot of setback wonder if the porpoise would be less with a smaller setback :confused:

[stoker2001]

Who rigged it?

18" seems like alot of setback wonder if the porpoise would be less with a smaller setback :confused:the owner said Lakeland Marine in Lake Havasu City did most of rigging,not sure on who decided to go with 18" of setback.i thought it was a bit much but the 22' daytona sits pretty flat in the water with all that weight way back there :confused: we were measuring up against wife's new 05 22'4" Stoker with 2006 merc 250XS.the owner of the daytona was convinced that the Stoker was alot nicer rigged then his,but i was impressed with his boat too!!!Our 250XS pushed the Stoker to 82.5mph on GPS today with 26 lightnin ET with perfect air and water with me only and low on fuel.we be wantin a piece of that supercharged 22 daytona now :D

[blkmtrfan]

Thanks for the reply, keep us posted on the Stoker/Eliminator match up :D

[yahoo]

Will Mercury show the new 375hp race verado at the ft lauderdale show ?

CM

[DGB]

Reliability seems to be the major factor when purchasing Jap crap over a Mercury (sounds like Black is Back with a vengance!). Any word on how the Verado is doing in the reliability catagory?

[stoker2001]

Thanks for the reply, keep us posted on the Stoker/Eliminator match up :DCome to find out the Eliminator was clocked with a smartcraft,that uses a paddle wheel sensor :confused: the best it has GPSed is 75mph with 28 labbed Bravo1 four blade.the reliability on the Verado 275 seems to be great so far as they have eighty hours of peddle down running :eek: the Stoker is really dialed in now with a personel best of 87mph ussing a 26 et lightnin at 6400 rpm with the sportmaster 1.65 gear.To be fair the Elim has only standard fishing lower and since runs only thru hub props.So,its really not apples to oranges comparison.we did do a acceleration test with him ussing a 24 four blade and my 26 :D

[blkmtrfan]

Thanks for the update :)


Paddle wheel speedo :eek: :rolleyes:

Sure soundls like the stoker is running well :cool:

[Stinky]

Will Mercury show the new 375hp race verado at the ft lauderdale show ?

CM

Even funnier yet!!!! :D ;)

[Stinky]

:D :D :D :rolleyes: ;)

Where do they get this stuff? :rolleyes:

[sho305]

2.6L and 375hp @ constant WOT...wish they made a car like that. A reasonably priced one I mean.

[yahoo]

Are they going to introduce it at the ft lauderdale show ?

[sho305]

Maybe it's the Verado XS with DI:). Audi gets 8200 rpm out of their V8 DI 4 stroke motor.

Still it could make near the same power and just get more rpms to have higher hp rating.

[1BadAction]

dfi in a car is a bandaid for poor head and intake design, IMO. A good head/intake and you can look from the injector bung into the combustion chamber through an open intake valve.

[Stinky]

agreed... but it ALSO creates less emmissions because the fuel vapors have that much less time to re consititute in to droplets.. and vapor is what is Ideal for an engine to run not liquid... gasoline in liquid form can putout an open flame Providid there is no vapor above it.. (know someone who puts is matches and cigarettes out using gasoline) the vapor is what flashes over and ignites... that is the emissions reasoning behind DFI.. behind the valve the fuel gets a chance to cling to the stem, seats, and head of the valve where as DFI it doesnt.. but 1bad is correct in that a properly designed system in a perfect world doesnt have the above mentioned problems.. but WHAT factory EVER built an engine design that couldnt be improved on......................................................... even the 426 HEMI had some room to improve and it was one of the better designs out there....

DFI is used for one reason, Stratified charge. The injector shoots the fuel in a plume that is by the spark plug so will light. The same amount of fuel in a homogeneous mixture would be to lean to burn. The rich plume in a DI will light and then burn fully because it is surronded by the rest of the air in the cylinder.

This lean burn ability is what gives you fuel economy and good emmissions.

This is one of the reasons that the Merc air assist DI is superior. The air injector allows a more controlled plume and the air breaks up the fuel into smaller droplets for a even leaner burn.

:cool:

[1BadAction]

they would have to change cam profiles to keep torque up high enough to gain the HP at higher RPM.. MOST inline engines begin to drop off torque above 5K in a BIG way.. inline engines are built for torque and low RPM by nature, sure they can be twisted up but 7 bearing surfaces compared to 5 in a V8 or I4 crank is a higher friction load as well as ALL the aditional components.

blah blah blah

bullsh*t nick. tell that to all the guys that run boosted bmw m3s and toyota supras. both I6s- they make mongo high rpm power. even a trailblazer with a n/a I6 makes power past 6700. engine configuration has very little to do with powerband, and bearing surface friction has about as much effect on an engine as pissing into the pacific. Talking out your ass like that makes you look like a fool.

[BarryStrawn]

Talking out your ass like that makes you look like a fool.

Takes one to know one.:)

[1BadAction]

Takes one to know one.:)

you must know him pretty well then. :)

[sho305]

Of course then you would have a supercharged, intercooled, 4 valve/overhead cam, and direct injected verado (more weight yet). VW has a new motor with a supercharger and a turbo. Supercharged up to 2500, then turbo above that. Flat torque curve and significantly better mpg. Oh, it is DI also.:) http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000203058546/ 167hp and 1.4L. How you like the idiot that posted under that..."pay twice as much to fix it". Guy must be clueless, as turbos are cheap relatively and they don't blow up anyway unless abused. I've bought a couple broken turbo cars and slapped a $600 new turbo on, its a quick fix. They would not sell it if the motor itself was not up to it...though VW parts can rape you pretty hard on cost.

I'd say they will up the displacement on the verado if they offer a more powerful one. And/or they just crank up the boost with some HD parts and say "sorry no warranty." Then again why not make a bigger one, like a big V6 or V8? Considering the hulls that would use a comparable I/O why not? That little 2.6 will just scatter if they do much more with it. Then again most of those 'race' motors don't get too many hours anyhow and the customers keep buying.

[Stinky]

Which 'race' motors don't get many hours???? :confused:

[sho305]

300X? 280/300 2.5s? Sure have been plenty of people on here in the last few years complaining about 200 odd hours and their new motor let go. I don't remember if stuff was fixed, but I remember the posts. I would consider <500 hours pretty a short life span, though that can be what you get with those kinds of things. Just saying Merc is not going to like selling a ticking bomb as blower motors usually don't just scuff a piston when they let go.

[Stinky]

300X? 280/300 2.5s? Sure have been plenty of people on here in the last few years complaining about 200 odd hours and their new motor let go. I don't remember if stuff was fixed, but I remember the posts. I would consider <500 hours pretty a short life span, though that can be what you get with those kinds of things. Just saying Merc is not going to like selling a ticking bomb as blower motors usually don't just scuff a piston when they let go.

Oh. the old tech, full race, EFI stuff. That stuff was built for ultimate performance, not fishen all day, every day. If your going to run that kind of performance, you need to take care of it and rebuild once in awhile. They aint fishen motors. ;)

How many hours do they get on performance I/Os before rebuilds?

Try the 250XS or 200XS if you want fast fishing. :cool:

;)

[sho305]

I agree, they are not fishing motors and are ultimate performance over lifespan. Many here have said the 2.5 is the most refined/advanced high performance OB there is, but they still blow up at those levels of HP. My $.01 is that if they use the current verado for significantly more hp in a performance application, it too will be a grenade....and many will not be happy with that. I can see 300hp from the 275, but not 350. 300hp from around 2.5L is the general limit for reliability without ultra expensive parts, in fact most 300hp are 3.0L or more.

Our I/O BBCs we normally freshened every season since we were changing parts anyway. One guy did run a set for three seasons, every weekend, that was longest I knew one lasted. Then again, they were only around 500+hp 454ci/7.4L, and mostly stock Merc parts in the bottom end though that set had the small rods. Another set was supercharged (megachargers) and 700-750hp and they ran a couple years, don't know what happened to them after that. They had some better parts in them but still blew the dipsticks out. All of them were based on Merc blocks less than 3 years old. Don't know about hours, we would get $100 in gas back then and run it out for about 4 months of weekends per year with a couple longer trips in there. They were all run on a conservative dyno for HP numbers. The 500+hp set ran even with 525 Merc blowers in the same hull.

At the time engine shops around here could not get 500hp out of them, well and still be able to get on plane that is. These had a nice flat torque curve starting at 2500, could blow out the props easy on holeshots...and took way less fuel than the blowers. Best speed was around 6500rpm. Everyone got smarter since and figured out you need good heads to make power all over, even GM with the vortec. We used dart ovalports that were ported quite a bit and a ported performer rpm intake. Funny part was the Merc cam in there....;) Today it seems they can get tons of power, but still have problems keeping all those parts in there.

[Stinky]

The only place I've seen a 350 HP Verado is on these boards. :cool:

[yahoo]

Maybe we are all dreamers, I think not.

[Stinky]

stinky I said that.......... VAPOR is a stratisfied charge.. droplets is the honogenius mix.......... re read my post that you quoted....


Nope, sorry, stratified and homogenous have nothing to do with droplet size. Homogeneous has the same A/F ratio throughout the cylinder. Stratified has a cylinder full of air and a small rich plume of fuel near the spark plug. :rolleyes:

[Stinky]

Maybe we are all dreamers, I think not.

Me thinks so. :)

[1BadAction]

I guess I am wrong and I made the math up and my posts are stupid, incorrect, post no validity and contain no logic...

when you compare a turbo boosted engine to a friggin positive displacement supercharged one that is correct. especially an engine with a Lysholme thats good for 25,000+ rpm (at the supercharger). with a tune and a different curve on the bypass valve that engine would easily surpass 300hp as it sits.

your use of the max RPM to calculate the torque of the engine is BS too, it doesnt say that the engine makes the HP at a certain RPM, it just states the wot RPM. Even if it did, the Motor is electronically controlled to make 275 HP over a wide rpm range using active boost controll. the boost is ALWAYS there.

[sho305]

That may be hard to compare, the electronic wastegate/bypass valve will be able to give the engine an aritificial powerband any size the programmer wishes....drive a powerstroke diesel and then drive the same one with a chip! Adding 100HP+ was never so easy. They can make the hardware capable of high output with a poweradder, but then lower it down to what lives or meets emissions/etc. Also gives a more linear power delivery as the supercharger/turbo helps power in the weak ranges, then is limited where it is most efficiant. For example it is likely the Verado can make much more power at say 4500-5500rpm. Above that range things are getting restricted, below it the blower makes up for oversize ports and cams. What they want is an even powerband, so they will not use the part that peaks. Indeed they can have X hp from 2500-5500, or X lbs tq...what ever level/curve meets their application's needs.

I'd bet a turbo would work even better, but handling the heat involved would be a pain in an OB. Also you have no lag at low rpm with that setup. They can also do other things with power delivery, such as letting it overboost for a second or two on initial full throttle...then bring it back to normal levels. This lets you have more power for a moment until the pistons get too hot. With the verado you might let out more power for a moment to get on plane then reduce it; it would feel like more power all over...but I don't know if they do. An example the other way is the ford V-10 in trucks, they do not have full rich WOT when you drive them. They only get full power if you have them wot for 20 seconds or such...in other words you only get full power when you have a load to pull causing you to hold it on the floor. An aftermarket chip will get rid of that function.

[1BadAction]

Sho, i tried to explain that to him in a simplified way yesterday, but he kept pulling his know-it-all routine (mis-quoting and telling me overly obvious sh1t). so I deleted my fkkin posts. his type is what runs the real motor heads off this board.

[150aintenuff]

Ill remove my posts off of here if you want 1bad.... I simply misinterpreted HOW you wrote it... SORRY i got so testy............ Ill keep quiet if you wont insult my intelegence as much..


THIS IS THE ONLY POST OF MINE ON THIS TOPIC AS OF RIGHT NOW... OFFICIALLY NOT INVOLVED IN THIS ARGUMENT ANYMORE

[msm]

DFI is used for one reason, Stratified charge.

:cool:

There's more than one reason to use DFI, the biggest reason is that injection can be timed to prevent raw fuel from escaping out the exhaust port, thus lowering emissions throughout the rpm range. A stratified charge only applies at idle and slower speeds, not at all at wot.

[Stinky]

There's more than one reason to use DFI, the biggest reason is that injection can be timed to prevent raw fuel from escaping out the exhaust port, thus lowering emissions throughout the rpm range. A stratified charge only applies at idle and slower speeds, not at all at wot.

Not really. The biggest reason is stratified charge. A 250XS runs stratified well up in the rpm band. Most cruse points will be stratified, that is why the fuel economy is so good. :cool:

Auto makers are looking at it for the stratified charge. NOt because they are losing raw fuel out the ports.

The exhaust port thing only applies at idle and low speeds. Yes, at idle the injection starts after the port closes, Anywhere else, there isn't enough time, nor would you make much power injecting/fireing that late.

At WOT, homogenous charge, injection times are very much like an EFI. The aim and containment of the charge do help keep from going out the port.

It is possible to run a motor completly stratified. Fuel economy is amazing, but HP is down. BTU per pound thing. :rolleyes:

How does that smell? :D

[sho305]

Many more DI car engines are coming, it certainly will be common by the looks of it (at some point). Not bad if you get a little supercharge effect with it as well. I guess it is obvious that the closer you get your fuel in the cylinder to be a gas and not liquid...that will work better...in addition to other combustion characteristics it can address.

Posting - Hey, not all of us know it all. But there are a lot of people here pretty high up in the game who do know a lot, so a lot can be learned here. Questions and discussion are the way to fnd stuff out. Looks like just the way an ecu and efi made an engine run in a more precise tune, DI can go another step forward to the perfect running motor. And my lawnmower still has an old carburator...wonder how it would run if I fit an aftermarket efi on there.

Really IMO they been dragging their feet on this stuff. Back in around '92 Ford added a programmed feature to their 5.0 Mustangs. It caused the timing advance to be reduced when you used the clutch and when you stomped the throttle fast. So you could not powershift; it would just bog with no power, and if you had it in gear and hit the gas it hardly spun the tires. With the old chip it instantly burned the hides, burned every shift too except the high gears of course. Now every car is detuned for every smooth shift with autos, my old '92 Mutsu turbo would cut timing and boost when it heard knock. No reason they can't have the computer do more than they been doing. The new DI diesels are all run by computer from the electronic throttle to every injection for every cylinder...but no variable cams on those yet like some gas engines. A BMW motor has so much variable cam/lift it does not even have a throttle body.

Yes ford did that for warranty reasons on the mustang. Well, likely it is just like cell phones...they can't even put a LED in the end of the thing for a flashlight...because they can't charge you to send the light over their network. So you get no useful features on a cell except a camera they can charge you for, and GPS so uncle sam can find you. You want PDA/games/FM radio/MP3 and all that good stuff in your phone? Tuff luck. Then they wonder why cell phones don't sell anymore.

[150aintenuff]

I had a cellphone with an am/fm Radio in it, I have a cell phone with an MP3 player in it and I have an ULTRA bright backlight that acts as a flashlight.... so they can and still KINDA caterr to the customer TO A POINT...

[msm]

How does that smell? :D

Better! :)

[sho305]

There are a few cell phones out there with features, just seems like they would have it all by now. IMO innovation is near dead. I can't believe they can't come up with software that needs a faster computer for the last how many years now? Looks like it is only feasable/legal to write it in India these days anyway. You can play near any PC game with 1-1.5gig chip and a good card...sad but way cheaper for us I guess. They (PCs & cell phones) complain they don't have a killer product, they think a killer service is what will be the future....but nobody wants a service they have to pay for every month, just the few diehards who are into that particular thing...so nothing happens. If they made a better product people WANTED...it would sell like hotcakes. But, then sony/etc would outlaw it like everything else. Do they really have the right to force your DVR to record advertisements? That killed that market fast enough, and we get force-fed the junk we don't want after we pay for the cable/dish service in the first place. We so don't want it the TV stations have increased commercial minutes...how kind. Anyway enough bitchin about that crap.

Now Merc did do a lot of work making the verado, and it sure is nice to see DI looking mighty promising on the 2 strokes. Still hard to figure how the verado costs near the same as a DI considering the engineering and parts differences....

[Lockjaw]

I think you are confusing a diesel engine and a gasoline engine, they are not the same. You are also not talking about the same kind of rpm range either, so its not an apples to apples comparison.

A turbocharger is a different animal. You have to have a HOT exhaust stream to spool it, you don't need that for a supercharger. It is that hot exhaust stream that would have to be controlled in order to effectively run a turbo. Honda seems to have been able to do that with their PWC.

Maybe on something like a verado, a twin turbo set up would work, it would be very intricate plumbing, and it would be extremely difficult to control the heat soak from the turbo when shut off. Also, turbo's don't like to be spinning and then have the engine shut off, they are hot, and oil cokes, which breaks turbo's. YOu have to have some sort of cool down period, so what would be the solution, a turbo timer for the outboard? Then you would have to have a safety feature to prevent the motor from being put in gear while the turbo timer is working.

And with regard to inline engines, they have more main caps then the V counterparts. Same power, more caps means more stability. Inline 6's also sound way better then V6's. I put 22+psi on my 2.8 liter inline 6 nissan engine, with a stock bottom end, except for pistons, and no problems. After 4 or 5 years of that, it finally blew the stock headgasket. Next time, it gets a nice metal HKS, and ARP head studs, and a ported and polished head.

I like the Verado, am intersted in the 175 hp one for my boat, and think the potential is there for the engine to make more power. Its only a 1.7 liter, so as soon as someone figures out how to raise the displacement, then it should make alot more power. Seems to me it would be easy to control with an aftermarket EFI too.

[yahoo]

Any word from merc yet ?