4 stroke power! We will have a 500hp outboard

[The Big Al]

Except for the out right over price of the Verodo, it will become the base line for a 500hp engine. And I feel like someone on this board will be the one to build it.
My self being a engine builder (4 stroke) from Brigg and Stration 5hp engine for karting to class racing engines for drag racing.
The 4 stroke base line has room for major hp improvement. No production engine can build a blue printed engine. The list of advancement in this type engine is wide open. Camshafts! Multie angle valve job, light small steem valves, porting, light pistons, light rods, And what does nitrous do to 4 strokes!.
Now some will say it will not over come the 2 stroke. I feel it's going to be wide open for the aftermarket.
I know when I find a used affordable one, overdriving the blower, major head work and the list will be endlist.

Just think we turn a flat tappet 5.7 Nascar engine 10k rpm and get 750hp with limit's set by NASCAR.

In WKA we take a 5hp briggs and turn it 7500 in stock class and 15,000 in modified. Almost 25hp out of a 5hp engine rated at 3600 rpm.

Also with the cost of these outboards I'm waiting on the aftermarket to build the 2.5 or 3.0 blocks and parts. Or even a aftermarket engine. You can build a 5.7 355 cu small block for less the 5k and never by a single part from GM!

Can't wait and I will save this for when it does! 500 hp IS COMING!:eek:

[heath brinkley]

I agree the HP will be more abundant. The problem in my opinion is the weight, you can make a 500 HP outboard or even more, but you can't safely put it in the back of your 4-500 lb 18-20 ft boat. I think the 4 strok will shine in offshore, where you can supercharge a Verado an replace 2-2 stokes with 1-4 stroke, or 4 2 strokes with 2 4 strokes.

[Scream And Fly]

Mercury will be unveiling a performance version of the Verado, possibly at Miami next year. The Verado has been being tested at over 400HP for quite some time...

[Capt.Insane-o]

a verado weighs about 60lbs more than my boat. And it has a suck ass mid section. Now if they can improve on those 2 problems I may be mildly interested, but I doubt it. And it looks like a shrimp. So there. :)

[The Big Al]

Well, with 500hp! Plus! A heaver stable boat, will pass you!

100mph plus will become a standard!
And then comes the WATER POLICE!!!

[Rickracer]

.....light weight, and an insane rpm range. The Verado, nor most any other 4 stroke can claim these. It's kind of an apples and oranges kinda thing. Both will push a boat very well, but both need a different kind of boat. :cool:

[Capt.Insane-o]

Well, with 500hp! Plus! A heaver stable boat, will pass you!

It still looks like a shrimp.

[The Big Al]

The RPM will come!
Hell we turn V-8's 355 cid 12,000 now!


Capt! I know they will pass me! Mine will be going BEBEBEBEB
here come veroom!!!! there goes verooom!!!

[Reese]

Well, with 500hp! Plus! A heaver stable boat, will pass you!

It still looks like a shrimp.

Never mind the shrimp look.....it is an incredibly huge outboard. Merc seems to be really discounting pre-rigged setups, and while I was in Key West last week, I spoke to a guy who had a twin Verado fishing boat...he said the bottom line was $$$.

I can't imagine how these engines will every be popular, especially with alternatives like Etec, Opti, and Yams....but I could be wrong.

[jhwh]

I personally say 2-stroke with NA and 4-stroke with FI since FI is so complicated on 2-stroke but very nice and good clean fun on 4-stroke

my car runs 16psi b00st :) and I don't see why this wouldnt be possible with a outboard.

imagine the power you could get out of hondas 3.6l block at 1 bar :o

[blkmtrfan]

imagine the power you could get out of hondas 3.6l block at 1 bar :o

Hay still be too heavy, but what about the 4 cyl with boost ?

http://www.honda-marine.com/images/bf150_engine.jpg

Any maybe a sportsmaster lower ;)

[jhwh]

Hay still be too heavy, but what about the 4 cyl with boost ?

http://www.honda-marine.com/images/bf150_engine.jpg

Any maybe a sportsmaster lower ;)

all very possible yes but expensive. at 1 bar you should in theory have 300HP if the engine is originally 150 in reallife you get 70-80% more intercooling with water is however very effective so chargeair is cool and you can run high boost with low octane fuel.
1 bar on a NA engine would require new forged pistons & rods + custom ECU like haltech with 2-3bar MAP. all in all this costs a lot.

the 150Hp 4cyl has the 2.4l I4 from the accord, if there is some cheap ebay kit for that engine it should be cheap and possible to run 0.5bar on stock internals with a remap of the injection system. that would at least let you hit 200+hp.

changing internals it should be possible to get reliable 300+.

not sure how happy the crankshaft would be with the boost since it has a long stroke compared to bore.


I'll give it a go of somebody donates the parts ;)

[1BadAction]

or... buy a 4cylinder verado that is correctly designed for a marine environment and boost. also, a 3L sporty is bolt-on :eek::D

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</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

[blkmtrfan]

I would also like some donated parts ;)


Anyway, the reason for the thoughts about the Honda:

First, on the street, there is guys getting amazing power from honda 4 cylinders, with quite a few builders making a living doing nothing but modifying hondas....


Second, it displaces 2.4 liters, the 6-cylinder Verado is only 2.6 and the 4 cylinder Verado is only 1.7, yet the Honda 20" BF150 weighs in at only 508 lbs. We all know there is no replacement for displacement. If Merc is getting 400HP from 2.6 liters, then ;)


Third, I would be interesting to try something idfferent. Believe me I really am a Merc guy through and through, but I wish I had the time and resources to try something like this :cool:

[1BadAction]

and there is guys kickin those honduhs asses with GM 4-cylinders and ford 4-cylinders... the verado I-4 weighs 512lbs... if you can get an intercooler/ducting/supercharger to weigh 4lbs, I will buy them for you... also, everything in the verado is forged, and the sleeves are thick enough to punch it out over 1/4" - you ever seen one of these things opened up? they are build like a brick S-House! :eek:

[sho305]

I just read about the Audi RS4, very expensive, but it redlines its V8 at 8250rpm if I remember right. It is 4.0L and 400hp with no blower. I believe it has this 'stratified injection'...I think it is just DI. BMW also is using DI on 4 strokes in cars. They seem to like high rpms.

I agree with the weight issue. If one is going to work on a 19'-20' boat then it would be the 4 cylinder (I have not looked at its weight yet) verado or similiar, and then just how long is that going to last at 250+hp? That will be a hard nut to crack. I'd guess the old 2.5 Merc 2 stroke is going to be real hard to beat in power to weight. Harder still with 10 times the parts of a 4 stroke and its power adder. In other words to use these great new clean and heavy 4 stroke engines, you need a larger boat so you can burn more gas...lol:)

[blkmtrfan]

and there is guys kickin those honduhs asses with GM 4-cylinders and ford 4-cylinders

But none of them are currently on a tower housing


... if you can get an intercooler/ducting/supercharger to weigh 4lbs, I will buy them for you...

the 508 lbs is beforr any lightening work ;)



everything in the verado is forged, and the sleeves are thick enough to punch it out over 1/4" - you ever seen one of these things opened up? they are build like a brick S-House! :eek:

Agreed, they are built well, but the 4 cylinder is still only 1.7 liters, will be tough to get 400 hp from that much displacement, 300 sure but 400 probably not.

I still want 400hp @ 500 lbs :D

[jhwh]

and there is guys kickin those honduhs asses with GM 4-cylinders and ford 4-cylinders... the verado I-4 weighs 512lbs... if you can get an intercooler/ducting/supercharger to weigh 4lbs, I will buy them for you... also, everything in the verado is forged, and the sleeves are thick enough to punch it out over 1/4" - you ever seen one of these things opened up? they are build like a brick S-House! :eek:

forged internals are not all that expensive.

but it will weigh more than 4lbs yes =)

my 1.6l car engine produces 220HP at the wheels so getting 200+ on the verado I4 with 1.7l should be easy with aftermarket stuff. with that said it suffers under the lack of displacement which means it needs to run either high octane fuel to run really high boost levels to get the ammount of HP you want.

[jhwh]

the honda 150 has more potential with FI while the verado allready delivers it.

but if you put money into them the honda probably would be the easiest to get the 400HP figure on.

[jhwh]

I just read about the Audi RS4, very expensive, but it redlines its V8 at 8250rpm if I remember right. It is 4.0L and 400hp with no blower. I believe it has this 'stratified injection'...I think it is just DI. BMW also is using DI on 4 strokes in cars. They seem to like high rpms.

I agree with the weight issue. If one is going to work on a 19'-20' boat then it would be the 4 cylinder (I have not looked at its weight yet) verado or similiar, and then just how long is that going to last at 250+hp? That will be a hard nut to crack. I'd guess the old 2.5 Merc 2 stroke is going to be real hard to beat in power to weight. Harder still with 10 times the parts of a 4 stroke and its power adder. In other words to use these great new clean and heavy 4 stroke engines, you need a larger boat so you can burn more gas...lol:)

really high revs requires mech lifters and short stroke on a 4-stroke

[1BadAction]

ok, so you can do 2 things...

#1. buy the honduh, take it apart, strip it down, buy forged internals, buy aftermarket EFI, buy aftermarket supercharging, make a custom cowl, adapt a sportmaster, then it MIGHT run... OR

#2 Buy a 4cylinder verado, sleeve it to 3.875, bolt on a sporty, custom tune done, and have a 160ci monster.

[jhwh]

ok, so you can do 2 things...

#1. buy the honduh, take it apart, strip it down, buy forged internals, buy aftermarket EFI, buy aftermarket supercharging, make a custom cowl, adapt a sportmaster, then it MIGHT run... OR

#2 Buy a 4cylinder verado, sleeve it to 3.875, bolt on a sporty, custom tune done, and have a 160ci monster.

tuning the verado is going to be WAY easy, just a smaller pulley and ECU programing, if going drastic you just change the supercharger, injectors and ECU programing.

it would suck at idle since it would have big injectors but who idles? :d

[1BadAction]

2 injectors per cyl- and staged injection :eek:

[blkmtrfan]

#2 Buy a 4cylinder verado, sleeve it to 3.875, bolt on a sporty, custom tune done, and have a 160ci monster.

So if it is possible to get 2.6 liters out of the current Verado 4 cylinder, why did they make the 6 cylinder??

In other words why are the sleeves so thick now??? :confused:

Like I said before, I am a merc guy, but I do wonder why no one has fiddled with a Honda yet?

[1BadAction]

production costs, warranty, and market. with a bore to stroke ratio like that its going to be really rev-happy...

y has no one done a honduh outboard? because no one wants to spend $20,000 extra to boost it and make it live.

[jhwh]

So if it is possible to get 2.6 liters out of the current Verado 4 cylinder, why did they make the 6 cylinder??

In other words why are the sleeves so thick now??? :confused:

Like I said before, I am a merc guy, but I do wonder why no one has fiddled with a Honda yet?

1.7 = I4
2.6 = I6

fiddeling costs $$$ thoose with $$$ have bigger boats and inboards

[blkmtrfan]

jhwh the displacement comment was from 1bad saying that you could get 160ci from a 4 cyl Verado by changing the sleeve to 3.875" from the stock 3.23"

Which per my math, with a 3,23 strike yields 152 cu in ;)

[1BadAction]

I rounded up :p

boy I need some work to do :rolleyes:

[blkmtrfan]

BTW 1bad in this goofy world of boating 20k really isn't all that much money (it is for me but) when a #6 drive is 50k and one Herring prop is 12k ;)

[sho305]

I remember people on here talking about putting new rings and bearings in their new 2.5 at 100 hours. Problem is 4 strokes don't warn you with a scuffed piston before they blow.

[C-Webb]

In which way does a "Two-Stroke" warn you??

[sho305]

Every high perf two-stroke I ever had would puke a piston if something was not exactly right, or it would 98% of the time. The racy four-strokes never did that, they just broke expensive parts inside with no warning...and normally you could not start them back up to get home.

[Stretch]

Autozone has a new line of performance ricer parts

[1BadAction]

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89603

BLAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

[Stretch]

EuRoS!

[sosmerc]

OK you skillful artists........how about drawing up a hopped up Verado with a big honking hood scoop with a giant supercharger sticking up through it!!??

[skydog]

Well i know the old RX1 sled is doing things the two stokes never could! Turbos makeing over 400HP at 10,500 RPM :D out of a 1000cc motor!! And staying togeather!

Skydog

[The Big Al]

really high revs requires mech lifters and short stroke on a 4-stroke

WRONG!!!!!!

Hyd. roller lifters, 5.7 Chevy SB2 with 6.20 rods, and 4.120 bore with 3.4 inch stroke!
8500 rpm all day long.

And anouther thing! 7k rpm with lower gears and torgue can run like hell!

Look at the 300x, 6800, 1.54 gears and 104mph Bullet, Look at Mercruisers!!!

It's coming!!!!! I'm know somewere, somebody has jerked the insides out of that Shrimp and working on it!!!!!
AL

[jhwh]

WRONG!!!!!!
8500 rpm all day long.

AL

I said high!

on a sidenote, anyone tried marinising the all alu block/topp ls1? or even better a zl1? they would have way more power than any 2-stroke outboard and be lighter!

[The Big Al]

Well how high is high!!!


DEI was turning 11,500 rpm till NASCAR killed them with the gear rule!!!
5.7 700hp

[jhwh]

Well how high is high!!!


DEI was turning 11,500 rpm till NASCAR killed them with the gear rule!!!
5.7 700hp

now that is impressive! a guy down here has a Gt40 with one of thooes nascar engines, he barely makes a few laps before something needs fixing though ;)

I honestly think that limiting power and increasing power is a good thing for nascar. not fun anymore when people get killed. like the old days of f1 when they had turbos.. just to sick!

[action280]

Not Sure About Outboard 4strokes But For Example My Acura Integra 1.8 Street Car Have 519 H.p. To The Wheels About 560 On The Flywheel Not A Vtec Engine No N2o Only Beefed Internals Big Turbo At 36 Psi Haltech And Lots Of Fuel By The Way I Shift At 9300 Rpm's And Run's 10.26@147 In The Quarter Mile On A Street Car...be Careful With 4cylinders On Boost; They Make Tons Of Power But Take A Lot Of Cash To Do...i Wonder How Much Can Be Take Out Of That 1.7 Honda I Bet 400plus H.p. At 8000 R's Enough To Beat My Mercury 280...just My 2 Cents :)

[The Big Al]

Wonder How Much Can Be Take Out Of That 1.7 Honda I Bet 400plus H.p. At 8000 R's Enough To Beat My Mercury 280...just My 2 Cents :)

2 cents well spent!!!

[action280]

BUT THE THING IS UGLY.IT WILL LOOK VERY BAD AT THE BACK END OF MY QUARTERSHOT T3R. :( :rolleyes: :p :D

[action280]

THAT THING IS 2.4 LITERS AND HAVE VTEC DOHC HEAD...CHANGE MY BET TO 500 PLUS AT 8800 RPMS...BELIEVE ME THATS EASY :cool:

[jhwh]

THAT THING IS 2.4 LITERS AND HAVE VTEC DOHC HEAD...CHANGE MY BET TO 500 PLUS AT 8800 RPMS...BELIEVE ME THATS EASY :cool:

yeah but it's gonna cost.

forged rods & pistons, 2 or 3mm metal head gasket, oring the block.
nice haltech or motec + lots of silicone to seal it... perhaps a remote MAP?

now over to the fun part, nice intake with a bigass TB, or individual ones, but then the air measurement gets harder.

8 injectors, 4 big 4 small so you can get the idle down enough not to bust any gears. some custom fab headers and cowl, a nice water-to-air ic.and some plumbing.

10grand and lots of hp, probably enough to blow the gears and such.

[action280]

BUT CAN START WITH FORGED PISTONS AND RODS($1300.00)PORTED HEAD($500.00) GT35 BALLBEARING TURBO ($750.00 +$200.00 WASTEGATE)INTERCOOLER($500.00) PIPEWORK BY A GOOD MACHINIST($1,000.00)HONDATA COMPUTER ($400.00) BOOST DEPENDENT REGULATOR($100.00)AND TUNING,TUNING,TUNING.....TOTAL$4,750.00 with that setup my buddies make 375h.p. out of the CRV 2.4 ENGINE AND USE THAT AS DAILY VEHICLES SOME TAKE 250H.P.ALL MOTOR...THE THING WILL BE THE LOWERUNIT BUT A 300X COST ALMOST 20GRAND AND ONLY REVS TO 6800...BELIEVE ME, A VTEC HONDA CAN REV IN THE 9000'S EASY

[jhwh]

THE THING WILL BE THE LOWERUNIT BUT A 300X COST ALMOST 20GRAND AND ONLY REVS TO 6800...BELIEVE ME, A VTEC HONDA CAN REV IN THE 9000'S EASY

say, omc had thoose bigass v8 outboards, those lower units could probably take the beating.

don't really need a GT35 for that little Hp though.

[action280]

MAKE TONS OF POWER AT LOW BOOST SAY 12 PSI..I'VE SEEN SOME CRV'S BLOCKS WITH STOCK INTERNALS MAKING 350 H.P. AT THE WHEELS AND REVING TO THE 8K'S EVEN WITH STOCK COMPUTERS WITH CHIPS AND REGULATORS...YOU CAN EVEN GO WITH SOMETHING SMALLER LIKE A T04E-60 TRIM WITH A T3TURBINE AND MAKE THE POWER...BY THE WAY MY ACURA HAVE 433LBS OF TORQUE AT THE WHEELS AND IS ONLY A 1.8 AND NO VTEC YET.DID YOU NOW THAT FORGED INTERNALS FOR THE CRV 2.4 ARE AVAILABLE AND ARE NOT SO EXPENSIVE THEY COST LESS THAN MERCURY'S TOP PINNED PISTONS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH NICKASIL SLEEVES...I'M STARTING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS..IS PROVEN POWER BELIEVE ME :cool:

[action280]

ANYONE WANT TO TRADE A 150HP HONDA FOR A MERCURY 280??? :eek: :D

[jhwh]

MAKE TONS OF POWER AT LOW BOOST SAY 12 PSI..I'VE SEEN SOME CRV'S BLOCKS WITH STOCK INTERNALS MAKING 350 H.P. AT THE WHEELS AND REVING TO THE 8K'S EVEN WITH STOCK COMPUTERS WITH CHIPS AND REGULATORS...YOU CAN EVEN GO WITH SOMETHING SMALLER LIKE A T04E-60 TRIM WITH A T3TURBINE AND MAKE THE POWER...BY THE WAY MY ACURA HAVE 433LBS OF TORQUE AT THE WHEELS AND IS ONLY A 1.8 AND NO VTEC YET.DID YOU NOW THAT FORGED INTERNALS FOR THE CRV 2.4 ARE AVAILABLE AND ARE NOT SO EXPENSIVE THEY COST LESS THAN MERCURY'S TOP PINNED PISTONS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH NICKASIL SLEEVES...I'M STARTING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS..IS PROVEN POWER BELIEVE ME :cool:

tried finding a used bf150? it's hard! I've been looking locally + england and some on ebay + s&f, they seem to be rare!

at least powerheads will be accessible cheap when you blow one since it's in the CRV.

now, turn off your caps lock.

[action280]

do you know how much they cost new? ...i'm realy considering as mercury h.p. parts are becoming hard to get from the factory and i don't like to get used parts :mad:

[The Big Al]

Just one arm, but both legs!!!!


I just know this is on there site, not promoting for them, just the only prices i could find posted.

Call Jaco's for a Super Price!


2005 200 Verado $13694

2005 225 Verado $14404

2005 250 Verado $15447

2005 275 Verado $16428

[jhwh]

do you know how much they cost new? ...i'm realy considering as mercury h.p. parts are becoming hard to get from the factory and i don't like to get used parts :mad:

new they cost about 10k GBP

I've been searching for a bf150 because it's one of the few legal engines in the new v-150 raceclass we have here in scandinavia.

yam v-max

omc GT & ho etc are all illegal :o

[action280]

verados are too heave..the honda is 478 lbs. like the 300x...we need to look to the future and the future isn't in 2 strokes...mercury quits hipo and high rpm engines..so what we will do? :) :confused:

[action280]

plus $5,000.00 for safe turbocharging is $1,800.00 less than a 280 and alot less than a 300x. is even less than 275verado and is lighter and smaller and will rev higher....goood :eek:

[1BadAction]

Not Sure About Outboard 4strokes But For Example My Acura Integra 1.8 Street Car Have 519 H.p. To The Wheels About 560 On The Flywheel Not A Vtec Engine No N2o Only Beefed Internals Big Turbo At 36 Psi Haltech And Lots Of Fuel By The Way I Shift At 9300 Rpm's And Run's 10.26@147 In The Quarter Mile On A Street Car...be Careful With 4cylinders On Boost; They Make Tons Of Power But Take A Lot Of Cash To Do...i Wonder How Much Can Be Take Out Of That 1.7 Honda I Bet 400plus H.p. At 8000 R's Enough To Beat My Mercury 280...just My 2 Cents :)

hey man thats a great time, post a timeslip...

[jhwh]

go try it out and see how much hp the lower unit can take, you could always get some higher quality metals to replace the oem parts as well.

the cowling would look bad, could probably top mount it or mount it on the back /front, sidemount is pretty much out of the question.

it can probably not take the offshore abuse I would put it through though.

[action280]

will post a timeslip, a dyno sheet and a magazine article on my car tomorrow for you guys.down here we are known as the v8 killers no v8 have beaten me in the strip yet just look at the mph and think what the thing do on the street at 5th gear...but 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th are almost useless on street tires.the cowl thing will be another story..i need to take a look at one to see how much space they have.wayne taylor could do a spacer to use a sportmaster :cool:

[sho305]

I thought Honda had the I4 Acura motor in an OB now?:confused:

[Fast Fred]

well, my self, I am SURE about fourstroke outboards, THAY ARE JUNK!!!!!!!

TWOSTROKE, half the weight, twice the POWER!!!!
was then ,IS NOW!!

you guys can jerk around all you want, nothing has changed, nothing, zero.

Merc, gaveup on twostrokes, R.I.P. :eek:

[jhwh]

merc removed their carb and efi 2-strokes from their site recently

[Rickracer]

.... 4 strokes are a coming thing, and there is plenty of potential with the power adders that are available these days. I can remember when people scoffed at a V-6 in a performance car, but the T-type/GN Buick Regals made believers of a lot of people, and small turbo/blower motors abound now, and will kick serious butt compared to stuff made even 10 years ago. Given a choice between an Etec and a 4 stroke, I'd pick the Etec, but some folks would pick the cammer. It's a fact of life. ;) :cool:

[Fast Fred]

AMF Harley Davison, Junk, people still paid for them, still Junk, :cool:

[Blizz]

As far as i know most of the stuff in the Verado is already forged so you would not have to replace most of it to start your project.

[1BadAction]

Merc, gaveup on twostrokes, R.I.P. :eek:

yeah, i guess all the optimax motors are not 2 strokes? :rolleyes:

[Fast Fred]

wares the beef :eek: :eek:

[SUPAJAY]

yeah, i guess all the optimax motors are not 2 strokes? :rolleyes:
Optimax motors are 2 strokes.... reallly restricted because of polution. Better off with an Evinrude.

[jhwh]

Optimax motors are 2 strokes.... reallly restricted because of polution. Better off with an Evinrude.

I belive 1badaction was makeing a joke and that he knows the aspect of DFI on 2-strokes.

some of the new 3c offshore boats here now has 200xs on the back, they top out around 90-100mph I belive.

[1BadAction]

Optimax motors are 2 strokes.... reallly restricted because of polution. Better off with an Evinrude.


the optis are 460lbs, have sportmasters and 6800 rpm limiters, why would i want an evincrude that weighs 540 with a 6000 limit and a weak lower? :o

[Blizz]

DFI doesn't have to kill a motor Bombardier is producing pretty good numbers for thier new injected stuff about 165hp and alittle over 150lbs Torque out of a 1litre 2 cyl motor. So why does Merc let it kill thier motors.

[jhwh]

DFI doesn't have to kill a motor Bombardier is producing pretty good numbers for thier new injected stuff about 165hp and alittle over 150lbs Torque out of a 1litre 2 cyl motor. So why does Merc let it kill thier motors.

which is 1liter 2 cyl 165HP? talking PWC?

[Blizz]

Actually this is a sled engine and a very nasty one at that.

Engine Type 995 SDI
2-stroke
2-cylinder
120 kW / 163 HP
997.5 ccm
liquid cooled
semi-direct injection
E-RAVE (electronic ROTAX Adjustable Variable Exhaust)

[sho305]

I still can't see it when weight is a factor. If DFI works, and it appears to, then why have way more parts and half the powerstrokes in your motor? Imagine the DI 2 stroke we would have today if that was all F1 auto racing had allowed for the last couple decades...:eek:

[stan merck]

The 1 thing 4 strokes have going for them is not having to add oil to a boat mounted tank. The saltwater market is where the money is at and people are just getting tired of adding oil every time they gas up. Some of the big triple eng boats have to add oil before they even get back to gas up. Also the 4 strokes just dont break as often as the 2 strokes. I think eventually we will see a direct injected 2 stroke with an oil pan and pump system. Might be an Evinrude though. I also think eventually all the 4 strokes, cars and boats will be direct injected due to the low CO2 ex. Another engine to consider is the 150 Yamaha 4 stroke, 2.7 liters and 468 lbs. The Hondas do have all that aftermarket support though.

[sho305]

DI certainly has a future. Did you see the new Audi V8 DI that redlines at what, 8200rpm?:D :D And BMW is using it too. Maybe in another decade we will see it in normal cars...none of them seem to be interested yet. Everyone knows us Americans like the lowest tech in our cars...:rolleyes: Must be why the American cars outsell everyone. Dah.

Hey, lets strap that Yami 4 stroke to an Allison and see what kind of numbers it gets...

I've had various oil injected machines, but not an OB. Everything I had that ran on land or ice took very little oil for the injection. Most took a couple tanks of gas or more to the oil tank.

[jhwh]

The 1 thing 4 strokes have going for them is not having to add oil to a boat mounted tank. The saltwater market is where the money is at and people are just getting tired of adding oil every time they gas up. Some of the big triple eng boats have to add oil before they even get back to gas up. Also the 4 strokes just dont break as often as the 2 strokes. I think eventually we will see a direct injected 2 stroke with an oil pan and pump system. Might be an Evinrude though. I also think eventually all the 4 strokes, cars and boats will be direct injected due to the low CO2 ex. Another engine to consider is the 150 Yamaha 4 stroke, 2.7 liters and 468 lbs. The Hondas do have all that aftermarket support though.

everybody drive 4-stroke cars... don't see them complaining now do you?
on my boat with the 4-stroke engine I monitor oil a couple times a year but never had the need to refill during the season.

on my boat 2-stroke outboard you get really really tired of filling oil on the engine yes, I removed the VRO and just mix in the gas, less hassle.

[jhwh]

DI certainly has a future. Did you see the new Audi V8 DI that redlines at what, 8200rpm?:D :D And BMW is using it too..

all decent cars has sequential injection directly into the cyl intake. (DI)

TBI and all other messy forms if FI is icky.

don't mix DI with HPDI

[jimmyb]

everybody drive 4-stroke cars... don't see them complaining now do you?



how many straight drive ratios (no gearbox) cars do you see? comparing a car motor to an outboard motor is not a good comparison!

something to think about: take a 250XS powerhead and drop it in a car... tons of torque, screaming top end, but great fuel economy at partial throttle (cruise mode in the car) because of the stratified combustion that is happening... and 1/2 the weight of a comparable power 4-stroke and it is non-aspirated (as the 4-stroke would have be to match the torque, or it would have to be a BIG displacement)

[stan merck]

all decent cars has sequential injection directly into the cyl intake. (DI)

TBI and all other messy forms if FI is icky.

don't mix DI with HPDI

We are talking about injecting right into the combustion chamber after the valves are closed, not from behind a valve. Then there is no contamination of the fuel mix during valve overlap. Eventually the laws will be so strict that 4 strokes will have to use this style of injection.

[BarryStrawn]

something to think about: take a 250XS powerhead and drop it in a car... tons of torque, screaming top end, but great fuel economy at partial throttle (cruise mode in the car) because of the stratified combustion that is happening... and 1/2 the weight of a comparable power 4-stroke and it is non-aspirated (as the 4-stroke would have be to match the torque, or it would have to be a BIG displacement)

On the other hand, how many Orbital technology car engines do you see? Heck of a lot of car and truck companies bought licenses and spent piles of time and money and couldn't make an engine to compete with four strokes. They tried for all the reasons you mention, it just doesn't work well enough. I expect the 250XS powerhead would have lousy emissions compared to a car engine. The EPA specs for outboards are primitive compared to what the autos are doing.

[1BadAction]

how many straight drive ratios (no gearbox) cars do you see? comparing a car motor to an outboard motor is not a good comparison!

something to think about: take a 250XS powerhead and drop it in a car... tons of torque, screaming top end, but great fuel economy at partial throttle (cruise mode in the car) because of the stratified combustion that is happening... and 1/2 the weight of a comparable power 4-stroke and it is non-aspirated (as the 4-stroke would have be to match the torque, or it would have to be a BIG displacement)

cool, there is at least 1 person other than me that understands that snowmobiles and cars are poor comparisons to outboards.

[blkmtrfan]

cool, there is at least 1 person other than me that understands that snowmobiles and cars are poor comparisons to outboards.

I think jimmyb knows quite a bit about outboards ;)

[1BadAction]

im just sick of hearing "my ricer car/suzuki motorcycle/snowmobile has a 1.6L NA 4 stroke and makes 250hp" that might work if outboard powered boats weighed 800lbs ready to run and had 6 gears! :rolleyes:

[halveb]

It has been 30 years since I have run a sled, they have transmissions now?

[pyro]

Nope, not really, just two clutches (the "pulleys") and a belt. The engine-side clutch has a centrifugal mechanism that pulls the two halves together and drives the belt toward the top of its diameter as engine speed increases, and the other one pulls apart to decrease its driven diameter. Thus, a variable-ratio "transmission" of sorts.

[blkmtrfan]

Thus, a variable-ratio "transmission" of sorts.

Not really of sorts, they really are a CVT, and vary gear ratios ;)

[sho305]

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/03/11/010071.html


"...Audi's FSI direct gasoline injection technology. As in a diesel, a precise amount of fuel is injected directly into each combustion chamber at precisely the right moment, under extremely high pressure, to ensure maximum vaporization for complete combustion. This improves both fuel economy and emissions - both engines are rated ULEV - and allows a higher compression ratio to be used without pinging, knocking, or other damage, thereby further improving efficiency."
------------------

Yeah, I just read a great thread on the honda I4 making 500hp or more and being the best OB ever....hmmm. I wonder how many of them hold those motors WOT for even 10 minutes, heck even a minute alone.

Sure a sled will hold a max rpm you have it set up for, lets say 7,000 to 10,000 rpm (its max power rpm), from a stop about a 1/2 second after you hammer it, to top speed. Unless you tune it differently of course, or run out of gear...and they can be changed too. You can set just about any engagement rpm. The new CVT trans in some new cars works like that with a metal belt in oil. The rubber one on a sled wears as you can imagine, and that in very cold temps and relatively brief WOT conditions. Most gas golfcarts use the sled type belt as well as Polaris ATVs. Look up Comet Clutches on the net. Most stock type sleds will let the motor run under max rpms up to 20mph or so for less power and less spinning...then let the rpms go up to max the rest of the way up. They also drop the rpms down at less throttle, sensing engine output/torque changes. Wonderfully simple and very tunable, but not so durable under big power and not as efficient as gears...efficientcy not so bad when it pulls less weight around and then has less slip.

My golfcart has about 11hp they tell me, and it gets around pretty good. It does run out of gear and revs up at top speed (about 28gps with the 22" tires). The clutch it has is cheaper and does not have as much gearing range as a sled, but same design. It will peel the big fat atv tire in sand some, but at ~600lbs and 11hp you mostly get low parts breakage and your can hauled around whenever you want for hardly any gas.:) It slows to nothing on steep hills, but still chugs up them nicely. The next one will have more hp...:cool: and a better clutch I can tune more. I drilled this one out but can't change the weights/springs/etc. Likely just as well with the stock motor. Once it revs the power goes away with this 4 stroke. I had a 2 stroke that would rev way out, did 40+ with the little stock tires.

You have to remember a 4 stroke or diesel in a car is really no big deal. You have a 500lb engine block in a 3,000 car so who cares about +/-200lbs? In a OB boat the motor is as much as the hull, and in a boat weight is the enemy of performance. In a car you can just put the next wider size tire on and 200lbs is nothing. Same with a sled, weight kills performance and makes it hard to use a hefty motor over a light one. If it was not illegal (or banned/etc) for a car or road bike to have a 2 stroke, they certainly might. The 2 stroke road bikes were very fast....still are by today's standards with little or no changes. If I remember right the 350 twin in a yamaha banshee is out of their european road race bike.

[jhwh]

honda bf150 has a 2.4l vtec 16v, how much different is that from the 2.4 found in their cars?

mercruiser SBC, how much different are they?

cams needs to be different, cooling etc but it seems that car engines work.

[sho305]

Other than the cams and ignition and safety items I don't think the auto motors are much different than marine versions when in stock form. Most of the hipo ones go to blowers or more cubes. They just can't get a flat powerband at higher levels of output without. In a car it does not matter.

[jhwh]

Other than the cams and ignition and safety items I don't think the auto motors are much different than marine versions when in stock form. Most of the hipo ones go to blowers or more cubes. They just can't get a flat powerband at higher levels of output without. In a car it does not matter.

here they deliver boats with prochargers kit mounted on them from factory, 500HP in a smallblock backed by 3 years of warranty (required by law in Norway)

the powerband on thoose things are decent, not great due to the centrifugal supercharger (I prefer roots type like eaton) but still way better than stock

[baja200merk]

Mercury will be unveiling a performance version of the Verado, possibly at Miami next year. The Verado has been being tested at over 400HP for quite some time...
that would be an sob king no? i can see herb now haha :eek: :eek:

[sho305]

Yes Herb would love to try that. I wonder if they will ever do a perf version of the 4 cylinder verado. Though I also wonder if anyone will do a performance version of anything 200hp or less ever again.

[SUPAJAY]

The verado would be too heavy for a 21 - 22 sob.... i would still try it thought lol.

[baja200merk]

how much more does it weigh than the v8 rude herb had on his boat a few months ago?

kevin

[blkmtrfan]

how much more does it weigh than the v8 rude herb had on his boat a few months ago?

kevin

At least 100-150 lbs

[espen]

Hi !

Vtec power in boat!
Wonder if a auto hiperf vtec head fits the marine engine....

http://www.racecruiser.com/

Buy one 150 Honda and a Honda car that someone has put to much money into....


Gearhead dreams are fun :-)