Say it aint so Raceman

[boatless]

Rumor has it Raceman went and bought a Jap outboard for his new toy.

It can't be true can it?

[1BadAction]

HMMMMMM... u must be talking about an OS XM .21 OB on a RC tunnel hull, cause thats the only jap outboard I could EVER see him buying. :D

[Chummy]

His Limo on water is SWEEETT

[Raceman]

I'm afraid it's sad but true. I've got my first Yamaha.

Except for a few Porsches in the 70's and 80's, I've never owned a foreign car, and try to give "Made in USA" top priority on any purchase.

My dad bought my first Merc in 1960 or 61. It was a white 9.8. Since that time I've never owned another brand and have never even considered it, and including used stuff have probably owned over 50 Mercs, maybe more. This has been building for some time, but the last encounter with Merc's parts pricing/robbery pushed me over the edge. Damn near 200 bucks for a base gasket and 2 exhaust plate gaskets to put a V6 powerhead back together that failed at 8 hrs (from brand new) because of the cheezy plastic oil pump gear is just too much to swallow. Then there's the $250+ for a set of rings when a whole set wasn't needed. Hell, a whole set of big block chevy rings in an odd size (low production number) that has 16 rings plus 8 of the 3 piece oil rings just cost me less than 70 bucks, why should Merc charge what they do for 12 rings, OR MAKE YOU buy a whole set if you break one ring? It's probably been that way for way too long, but I started payin' attention when I ordered a water tube and alignment sleeve that I figured was about 3 or 4 dollars worth of hardware store type stuff and the damn ticket was about 70 bucks.

Nevermind that Merc lost thousands on the new motor purchase from shooting a loyal customer right between the eyes at the parts counter, they "maximized profit" by squeezin' every last penny they could from a bunch of (what should be) 20 dollar parts and I guess that's the kind of thing that makes MBA's happy.

I think Merc has a group in engineering/manufacturing that are second to none and DO care about the product line (and still think the line is the finest on earth), BUT I also think they've got a bunch of hotshot MBA's pulling the strings that don't give a damn, or even understand the concept of customer loyalty and just have the "maximize the bottom line today and the hell with tomorrow 'cause we might be running our competitor's company or be in a totally different industry by then mentality". That very situation, non-car guys running the show is exactly what's responsible for GM's current financial woes, and it took their hotshot MBA's years to totally screw up their line, customer loyalty base, and of course accompaning profitability. I'm sure that if a Brunswick exec happened to see this, he'd just chuckle, yawn, remember the past year's financials, gaze lovingly at the picture of Reggie on his wall, and go back to practicing his putting stroke, but it can happen there too. Ivory towers fall hard when they crumble.

[1BadAction]

wait till u price a yamahaha part...



make sure you take your heart meds before you read this. :o




















this is for a 150-175 hpdi motor. As you would expect, 4 suck prices are even worse.

description--------price--qty per motor

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>BEARING,CYL.(61U)</TD><TD align=right>$55.93</TD><TD>6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

:eek: 55 for 1 rod bearing... these prices are "up to 80%"* less than retail.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>PISTON RING SET P</TD><TD align=right>$43.98</TD><TD>3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>PISTON RING SET S</TD><TD align=right>$43.98</TD><TD>3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

$44 for rings for one piston, :eek:

looks like merc took a page out of yamahas play book, LOL, most of their prices are just as high, and most electronics are much higher than merc. (switchbox/stator/coils) at least their parts drawings are better than mercs.:D

oh well, as everyone says, yamahas have "superior japanese engineering" so it wont break, ever. :rolleyes:


*edit- changed the percentage, as stated on the website i got that from http://yamahaoutboardparts.com/

[brotherxb03]

I don't think yamaha parts will be any better,they all ream you. and on electrical parts you will have to back up to the parts counter.

[Dave S]

Merc sucks.... but I still love them. I must be stupid. I only buy gaskets and rings from them. When I was young 50 hp rings cost 60 cents each, now they cost 3.50 or so.They don't take care of the dealers, they rob them also. They better wake up soon or the japs will bury them.

[brotherxb03]

The poor mans friend, AFTERMARKET! and it's sad to say but if you play you gotta pay no matter if it's boats,dirtbikes or whatever.

[props4u2]

I am a Mercury Dealer & agree prices are out of site as with everything these days but at least for the most you can get the parts from Mercury, I have seen several cases when customers had to wait months on back ordered parts from Yamaha, not a pretty site when they're paying payments & not getting to use it.

Lee

[The Big Al]

Raceman, Understand your frustation. my question. Wy the Yamaha? An not the Evinrude E-TEC?

Thanks Al

[VectorPat]

Price a Yamaha Powerhead or gearcase against Merc or BMC. 2322.39 for a V6 gearcase and 4695 for a v6 200 powerhead. Electronics are higher but have a much lower failure rate. I dont care whos engine it is you are going to pay one way or another

[AwesomeBullet]

The worst thing about Yamaha is the wait on some parts...Trust me, I know...Been there a few times. :(

[Racemore]

Raceman, Understand your frustation. my question. Wy the Yamaha? An not the Evinrude E-TEC?

Thanks Al

You've got to be kidding! Raceman and an OMC,when pigs fly.But he did sell his boat he wouldn't sell.Hmmm :confused: I guess he just might need oxygen.

[blkmtrfan]

Does this mean the world as we know it coming to an end :eek:


I am also curious why you didn't take a look at the BOMB E-TEC??

I know you won at least one OMC already ;)

[Raceman]

The reason I bought the Yamaha was because it was pre rigged on a boat I liked. If the same boat had been rigged with a Honda I'd have bought it. The OMC might've been a harder sell, because I still think the company is somewhat transitional, or at least they haven't built the reputation around here that Yamaha and Honda seem to enjoy on all the sled type boats. (this is a sled type boat) The point in all this being................ a year ago I wouldn't have even looked if the motor wasn't black.
Now the absolute brand loyalty is gone.

[AnthonySS]

I think it has something to do with mid-life crisis…:)

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Last Year a friend gave me a free OMC motor…and I took it thinking I better consider it cause it was free…we’ll that lasted until I took the cowl off and everything looked foreign and backwards too me…I gave it to a Mechanic friend in exchange for fixing my Merc….My Merc runs great now and thankfully I did not spend the dough or brand loyalty on the OMC. It just wasn’t me:confused:

<o:p></o:p>

Just this past spring I was thinking…my next truck should be a Dodge ( I am a Chevy-man)…we’ll again thankfully that lasted about a few months…next truck will be another Chevy. :)

<o:p></o:p>

Yes Merc parts are expensive (who’s aren’t)…but isn’t that part of the price we pay for our sport…just my thoughts;)

[blkmtrfan]

Norris, what boat was the yammi attached to?

[INXS]

"Except for a few Porsches in the 70's and 80's, I've never owned a foreign car, and try to give "Made in USA" top priority on any purchase"

It's the companies that are hurtting themselfs. BTW, aren't the Yammies made down by you? The folks a BBC really like them, spin the rpms a little higher and they go within 1.5 mph of the mercs they say?
Anyway good luck with it! What's next, a Lexus? :D

[Yamaha 225]

I like Yamaha because of the safe feeling I get from it. It just go and go and go... 1050 houres without powerhead been opened yet on a pleasure/raceboat which is used in offshore racing aswell as waterski. But all engines have problems once in a while. Parts prices are hopeless for Yam, but I do not I have changed other things than water pump and a trigger over the years. My choise to be honest for the big V6 engines would be the 250 XS. This engine seem to be both reliable and (maybe) 275 hp? plus the relatively high revs. The Bombardiers are killers now... My old yammie are in big trouble there... :D

What have been difficult to understand for me, is why Merc is selling 30 hps from Tohatsu with their labels on? I mean that is probably the worst 30 hp you can get! Back when the 4,5 - 7,5 - 9,8 and so on were present, I think the Mercury name was on it's peak when it came to "brand equity". That time was also when they were the most popular of all the availible brands too. I have a marketing education and think this is VERY interesting :D . Merc should definetely make more custome engines in smaller series to promote their hi-performance reputation even if this is not the engines that they make money on. When the Mustangs lost the V8 power in the 70's, the brand image was gone, and were never the same again. Same thing here even if Merc do have hi-perf engines. What I really would like to see, were some Hi-Perf Yamahas!! :rolleyes:

Just my opinion.....

[ken medendorp]

I just bought a set of rings for my 2.5 Drag and right on the box it said made in Japan

[RBT]

I used to be a merc guy, I still wanna be, but I cannot stomach the prices..... and total lack of quality. I still have all merc powered boats, but all of them are hi-performance. I have had several Yamaha motors and never once had a problem. My biggest Yamaha was a 225 Excel, that motor is a 1987, it is still running to this day. When I sold it, it had over 700 hours on it, I know it is still running.
But I can tell you I have had quite a bit of time with the New Bombardier motors and now am getting to know the E-Tec and they are my brand preferance, even over the Yamaha. There isn't a product from merc that remotly interests me now that hi-per is gone.

RT

[TD]

Yamaha rocks for a non HP application. I'm on my 3rd and have never had problem one.

[TD]

Yamaha rocks for a non Hi Perf application. I'm on my 3rd and have never had problem one.

[T2x]

I'm afraid it's sad but true. I've got my first Yamaha.

Except for a few Porsches in the 70's and 80's, I've never owned a foreign car, and try to give "Made in USA" top priority on any purchase.

My dad bought my first Merc in 1960 or 61. It was a white 9.8. Since that time I've never owned another brand and have never even considered it, and including used stuff have probably owned over 50 Mercs, maybe more. This has been building for some time, but the last encounter with Merc's parts pricing/robbery pushed me over the edge. Damn near 200 bucks for a base gasket and 2 exhaust plate gaskets to put a V6 powerhead back together that failed at 8 hrs (from brand new) because of the cheezy plastic oil pump gear is just too much to swallow. Then there's the $250+ for a set of rings when a whole set wasn't needed. Hell, a whole set of big block chevy rings in an odd size (low production number) that has 16 rings plus 8 of the 3 piece oil rings just cost me less than 70 bucks, why should Merc charge what they do for 12 rings, OR MAKE YOU buy a whole set if you break one ring? It's probably been that way for way too long, but I started payin' attention when I ordered a water tube and alignment sleeve that I figured was about 3 or 4 dollars worth of hardware store type stuff and the damn ticket was about 70 bucks.

Nevermind that Merc lost thousands on the new motor purchase from shooting a loyal customer right between the eyes at the parts counter, they "maximized profit" by squeezin' every last penny they could from a bunch of (what should be) 20 dollar parts and I guess that's the kind of thing that makes MBA's happy.

I think Merc has a group in engineering/manufacturing that are second to none and DO care about the product line (and still think the line is the finest on earth), BUT I also think they've got a bunch of hotshot MBA's pulling the strings that don't give a damn, or even understand the concept of customer loyalty and just have the "maximize the bottom line today and the hell with tomorrow 'cause we might be running our competitor's company or be in a totally different industry by then mentality". That very situation, non-car guys running the show is exactly what's responsible for GM's current financial woes, and it took their hotshot MBA's years to totally screw up their line, customer loyalty base, and of course accompaning profitability. I'm sure that if a Brunswick exec happened to see this, he'd just chuckle, yawn, remember the past year's financials, gaze lovingly at the picture of Reggie on his wall, and go back to practicing his putting stroke, but it can happen there too. Ivory towers fall hard when they crumble.

Great piece of writing there RM..........

The good news is that you are right about Merc's development and engineering crew...Some of the best, most dedicated people on the planet..

The bad news is that the MBA "infection" in business is global...and is at least as rampant, if not more, at the other manufacturers as well. You know when the subject turns to humbug sloganisms like " Challenge is teambuilding to create seamless market entry for our line...... Expectation is enhanced speed to market leveraging previous brand identity and impact."..... The MBA's are afoot.(Notice that nowhere is the damn product identified....nor significant in the process for that matter).

We have been over run by a hoard of "sell anything" middle managers who care not if they peddle dog crap or violence advocating, rap music based items as long as "margins are maintained" and "market share expanded".

Welcome to the 21st Century........ where Walmart and Disney have created their very own own least common deniminator, dogmatic, totalitarian society.

1984 ....actually occurred..... smile for the video camera.

T2x

[stokernick]

Anthony,a neighbor has always been a Chvey,GMC guy,but when his last p/u truck[01] one year out of waranty needed $2100 in brake lines,oil pan,etc and it had only24,000 miles he bought a Ford.Stepson has a Ford Triton[03],front brakes been replaced 3 x's,spark plug blows out of head and dealer wants replace[V-10] head,etc Another friend with Dodge keeps replacing transmissions,and I'm unAmerican cuz I drive a Toyota. I put gas in it,change the oil twice a year with synthetic oil and have a 128000 miles on it.It's a 98 and other than replacing front brakes twice and two sets of tires,it's cost me nada.Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.Maybe Mercury with learn to cut back the bean-counters and go back to competing,or maybe they'll just ship everything from China.:( :( :(

[Dave S]

We all want good goods from Japan, but we can't make anything good over here??? Somethings wrong. Lets print some more $$$ money to keep things rolling. :rolleyes: Whats that you lost your job???? :confused:

[Jeff_G]

You are going to find good and bad in everything. I find the Yamaha pricing totally out of line. $100+ more for the same oil pump, one small O2 sensor gasket at $16.00. A Suzuki 115 with a $280 gasket set. Must be made of gold.
And engineering? How about the battery cable connection that tends to melt and corrode causing a fire? So even the Japanese motors have their pimples.
Overall the quality of all the motors is better than they have ever been.
Pricing is out of hand but so are $250,000 houses and $30,000 pick up trucks, and $2.00 a gallon gas.

[6balls]

4 six cylinder Yamaha's are in my family since 1988(One is a 200, one a 225 excel, and now two 3.1 liter 225 EFI's). I drive competition barefoot boats rather than true "screamers", but the hole shots are stellar, and the reliability near bullet proof.
Previously owned a Merc. Lousy hole shot, noisy, lousy cold starts. Then had a 'Rude...better hole shot, would not idle and constantly fogged the plugs.
If I were to buy an Allison, or a 'Stream, you can bet I would put on a Yamaha--even if I give up a few mph on top, I will take the monster hole shot and the knowledge that I won't be dead on the water just when I want to have fun.
If Yamaha would go the high performance route for all the "screamers" out there, Merc would either sink like a stone or would need to make some serious changes.
As an aside, also owned until 2 days ago a SHO with the 3.0 Liter Yamaha and the 5 spd--f'ing screams and has needed nothing but oil every 3K since 1993--sold to a friend to make room for my first rotary(Mazda RX-8).

[jerry]

what was the name of the movie with mike keaton , gung ho ? he said it best the japs are kickin our ass !!!!!!!
not one big wig in washigton could give a crap about anything .
great example : here in new york they want to build a football stadium that is gonna cost THE TAX PAYERS not the football teams somewhere in the billions of dollars. if we have this statium , MAYBE new york could host the 2009 olymipcs.... our governer just wants to keep up with the jones . jerry doesnt think that one new yorker could give a crap about this statuim or the freggin olympics 2009 .

lower our freggin taxes
lower the gas prices
lower our electric prices
do something about health insurance ( price goes up , beneifits go down )

[Dave S]

the yammi might have more balls because the 3.1 over the 2.5.....

[Bob T]

For all you guys upset that race man bought a 'foreign" motor.A couple of qoutes from 'Bass and Walleye boats"May2002/2004. "Yamaha Motor corp,may build the engine blocks for Mercury's four stroke V-6 outboards" I believe this is now the case on some models." A collaborative effort would not be new; the companies have been working together on engine projects for 25YEARS"You've all been driving Yammies for a long time and didn't even know it.Futher,in regard to Merc's heralded new ,state of the art VERADO,Merc "brought in a German engineering team headed by Claus Brustle,who previousl worked for Porsche".Next time you need a new car test drive some thing from any of the Japanese/German builders.Then you'll understand why Mercury uses the technology ,then puts their stickers on.BT

[Dave S]

I know what we can do, buy Brigandstrattion 4stroke motors. They might be the last made in USA outboard left.. :D

[Capt.Insane-o]

[

Yamaha Motor corp,may build the engine blocks for Mercury's four stroke V-6 outboards"

The 225 v-6 f/s was a rebadged yammer. but brunswick pissed in Yams cheerios and that deal is sour. Not matter to myself, I'll take an E-tech over any 700lb shrimp looking turd Verado, or enormous Yamaha (I just can't wait untill that variable valve timing starts ****ing up) The 510 (dry) little veradoos are a hoot. A 510 lb 135 horse, what a deal. Yimmerhaws are fairly reliable, except when the carbs goo up....or a trim sensor goes bad and the timing gets all wacky. That infernal prime start can be a pain as well. The best motor I owned was a 92 260 efi. Par the stator and switch box problems, a German fuel pump finally did it in.

[INXS]

Jerry,
"I'll take an E-tech over any 700lb shrimp looking turd Verado"

I knew that motor remineded me of something! :D

Put the 225 HO Rude next to a Verdo, what a name :eek: , and you got "Beauty And The Beast" !

[heath brinkley]

[

I'll take an E-tech over any 700lb shrimp looking turd Verado, or enormous Yamaha .

The next motor I buy that was made post '05 will be an E-tech.

[INXS]

"I'll take an E-tech over any 700lb shrimp looking turd Verado, or enormous Yamaha ."

I think Jerry hit the nail on the head, watch out Jerry the Merc Gods and those who Worship them will be after you!! :eek: :D :D

[blkmtrfan]

:( :( :( Things have got to change but I don't see it happening in my life time. It may have something to do with my age (59) and or my background but it is just no fun anymore.
John Sherlock and yes I work for Mercury

WOW, considering the source, this is scarry :eek:

[Riverman]

I know what we can do, buy Brigandstrattion 4stroke motors. They might be the last made in USA outboard left.. :D
I was looking at a lawn mower the other day, thought the motor was a Techumseh but upon further inspection saw that it was a Chineese copy of a Teke.

Next time you buy a mower have a good look at the engine to make sure it is a Teke or a Briggs.
RM

[Yamaha 225]

One engine that is unbeaten in it's class is the 200 XS Short shaft with the offshore exhaus housing on the mid section. I was in a race last week end, and it is giving me confidence. beeeeep, grrrrr (perfect idle..) The right of everything and not thirsty.