Update - Blackbird Engine Disassembled with 14 hours

[SAMMYBOY]

Blackbird Engine Disassembled with 14 hours serial number B266209. What year is this motor? The Mecury Web page says it a 2.4 EFI. Any problems using carbs with 5 petal horizontal reeds with a EFI Block?
Remember I paid $4,000 for my 2.4 in August 2004 and fought rough idling since day one. After finding the broken check valves and the hidden plugged bleeder hose and then being led by Blackbird on a wild goose chase on the problem I lost all trust in his work and others suggest I take the Blackbird powerhead apart and doing a inspection. On Saturday it came apart..
Here is what I found
1) Right off the bat, I took off the air box, and the #1 and #3 carbs are fully exposed, I see that the #1 and #3 carbs are missing one idle vent jet each. 2) The upper end cap was cracked/broken
3) Used oil seal, not new
4) Wesco Piston appear to be new and installed in the correctly direction.
5) Cylinders #1 steel sleeve - 2,3,4,5,6 chrome
6) Cylinders 2,4 lite pitting
7) Cylinders 3 Deep score and pitting(but the piston is fine)
8) Cylinder 5 HEAVY PITTING
9) Cylinder 6 Light pitting and large gouge
The pistons and rings appear to be in good shape. It appears the motor was assembled with new piston and rings in a badly corroded and scored cylinders.


Will mic the clyinders and crank. Will check end gap also. Will report back or check my web site for the updates and pictures later in the week. http://www.stayawayoutboardrepair.biz/

STAY AWAY FROM BLACKBIRD

[props4u2]

The pitting in the cylinder bores are normal if they look like pin holes, the gouges are not. The jets you talked about are for mid range economy, look in a Mercury service manual to see which ones are supposed to be left out, this is normal also. Not a problem using carbs on efi if bleed lines are routed correctly.
I'm not taking up for either side as I do not know you or Blackbird. Just trying to answer your questions.

Lee

[SAMMYBOY]

I checked in the manual, vent jet for cly #2 and #5 says "none".
Thanks...
Why is the pitting normal, what causes the pitting if it normal?

[The Big Al]

Is this engine a 2.4?
It would be around 14 years old?

[SAMMYBOY]

Yes it a 2.4.

See my web page, it tells the complete story why I took the motor apart with just 14 hours.
I fish is the pacific ocean, if the motor dies next stop is Japan. I cann't afford to have a fault motor when I'm off the coast 10-15 miles.
I paid $4,000 for this powerhead think I was getting a first class rebuild. It far from first class.

My web page is http://www.stayawayoutboardrepair.biz/

[us1]

The pitting is normal and just part of the early casting technique of those blocks.

[SAMMYBOY]

John,

How bad should the pitting before the cylinder should be sleeved? Does the severe pitting effect performance or longevity?
See picture

The number #3 cylinder has a deep score; the piston side at the location of the deep score has minor damage. I guessing the motor was assembled with the deep score because the piston and rings have such little damage. Should this cylinder have been sleeved before the new piston and rings installed? See picture

Number 5 has heavy pitting and a gouge in the cylinder. Should this cylinder have been sleeved?

Number 1 cylinder is a steel sleeve, 2,3,4,5,6 are chrome. I’ve read that steel sleeve rings should be used in steel sleeve and chrome rings for the chrome cylinders. How can I tell if the correct rings where used for the appropriate cylinders? There doesn’t appear to be any marking on the rings.

I also found that the #4 rod bearings are using plastic cage for 1 half and metal cage for the other half. Is this a common acceptable practice to mix plastic and metal caged bearing? For an engine with only 14 hours, the cages are very dirty, is there any way to tell new rod bearings were used for my rebuild?

[SAMMYBOY]

Here is the side of the piston with the scored cylinder.

[SAMMYBOY]

Picture of the #3 cylinder - deep score

#5 Gouged

[Raceman]

SB, pits and scores are two different issues. The pits came that way from the factory and are basically casting flaws in the cyls that were plated over. They're harmless. The scores are wear or use type problems and can be caused by different reasons, but regardless of cause can lead to total engine failure since they're frequently through the plating, or cause wear problems on the pistons. If you've got scores the block will usually need to be sleeved, plated or replaced, although I can't see serious scores in your picture. Can you feel the scores with your fingernail?

[us1]

That is more pitting than most but still it normal. Thats how it was sole new. The scoring will need sleeving.

[SAMMYBOY]

Yes the scoring can be felt with the finger, let alone a finger nail.
It's deep....

Thank You!

[ioptfm]

Blackbird is one of the biggest crooks in the outboard business. They are in PA. Run, don't walk and get away from any dealings with them as fast as you can. They talk a good game and are very slick and convincing so don't let them sucker you in. If you would like full details, email me

[pyro]

Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste. Eight posts, all copy and paste.

Search and smear. It's all been played out already...

[Boz]

Agreed.

[mr.clean]

Pyro is the resident copy and paster :rolleyes:

[pyro]

Show me anything I've copied and pasted recently then smartass, excluding my mockery on page 1, and the ONE OR TWO times that I quoted my own writing.

Go on, get searching!!

[mrcrsr]

pyros got alot to say, i guess he's never been screwed!!! pyro, if you have nothing helpful to say about a subject, why get involved???

[pyro]

I believe in making the good and the bad known. When a troll shows up on the board late at night and brings a bunch of very old threads to the top, copying and pasting the same sentence into every thread as a reply, it's more than annoying. Once is enough. Good people are posting helpful replies to questions posted in 2002 because the threads are back on page 1. It's a waste of bandwidth, it gets in the way, and it's just plain dirty to defame someone without telling the story to go with it. I'd like to hear what this troll has to say, because he has said nothing so far other than the copy and paste routine.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=25574

Come on, mr clean! Who have I quoted in a copy-and-paste?

[delawarerick]

Blackbird builds a shatty engine period. He fixes rather than rebuilds no more no less:D Pyro dont let them get to you I used the glove after a salty run and I thank you for the idea. Rick

[pyro]

The glove flusher, ha ha...

[ioptfm]

PYRO…Not sure what your definition of a troll is and I am so sorry that I offended you by spreading info about a vendor that could ultimately cost other members not only dollars, but many headaches and disapointments! All I can give you is my experience with them and you can do with it what you want. I am simply warning others to stay away. I unfortunately tried to purchased a "Rebuilt Motor" from Blackbird and after sending them the money, waiting almost 5 mos for them to ship me the motor (they had excuse after excuse as to why it couldn’t ship), then upon receiving it found that it was a piece of junk that was assembled using scavenged parts, had parts missing, some parts were secured by a piece of wire or tape and they had actually put putty on the crankcase cover to try and plug up a crack to prevent oil from leaking out. I sent the motor back to them, had to pay the freight charges and finally got most of my money back, but they never would admit that they tried to patch the crack. I have photos if you would like to see them. By the way, that one year warranty that they keep advertising is about as worthless as the paper it is written on. Yes I copied and pasted in a lot of forums simply to get the word out to as many as I possibly could. I have received several emails from individuals that were on the verge of buying from them and they thanked me for putting them on alert. If you want to do business with them, then go for it, but don't think that your cute little comments are going to prevent me and others from alerting members of the sham artist that are lurking out there

[pyro]

A "troll" is a mystery person that posts comments on message boards specifically to stir the sh** pot, cause trouble, etc. Since you've shown yourself and told the story to go with the accusations, then you're alright. Just avoid the multiple posts.

Once again, exposing rip-offs is good, but over-done defamation is annoying and can get YOU in trouble, so say what you will, just be careful, don't be derogatory with anything you say.

[The Bilge Idiot]

Fock, I thought I'd gone thru a time warp or some sh*t all these 2002-2005 posts popping up everywhere.

[pyro]

yeah... see what I mean? Annoying and confusing.

[mrcrsr]

pyro, it just seems that you always come to a shyster's defense, obviously blackbird is a scammer and i am happy to have found out about him, just like the scumbag angelo from arbor care tree service who advertised a boat w/ a professional repair that wasn't and you came to that idiots defense, it seems like a pattern with you

[pyro]

I haven't defended the guy.
I was only bitching because there was a half-page of duplicate posts.
I've never met Angelo. I didn't come to his defense either. You purchased a boat sight-unseen, and you got screwed. I'm sorry for stating the obvious in the said discussion.

[mrcrsr]

so instead of doing the right thing and posting about these unscrupulous people so other people don't deal w/ them and get screwed as well you would rather everyone keep silent, because it isn't bad enough to get screwed once, but then when you post about it you have to worry about people such as yourself bashing you again, thanks for the moral support!!!!

[tlwjkw]

Ya know, sometimes its kinda nice ta see some of tha old reads come back to tha top. It refreshes tha memory and lets tha new guys see it. I think if it was a problem of takin' up too much space I'm sure one of tha moderators would fix that real quick. If its one (thread) that I don't really care for I just do what my wife tells me ta do when I'm tryin' ta watch some of tha X rated girllies on TV. "Change tha channel or turn it off". I get one last look and move on.....

And CLEAN, I think ya got PYRO and AL mixed up. I guess its cause they look so much alike :p

[mr.clean]

mrcrsr, don't take it personally,pyro is a post whore! He isn't trying to defend anyone just has a uncontrollable desire to post on every single thread. He has a very lonely,unfulfilled life and S&F serves as a pulpit where he vents his frustrations. We enjoy him as a ridiculous Touchstone.

[pyro]

Yeah, pretty much...

[mr.clean]

Yeah, pretty much...

I thought you would like that :p

[lqdegl1]

clean that was some funny ass s*@&:D

[mrcrsr]

i guess you gotta point there mr clean, pyro don't seem like a bad guy, its just that when you get screwed by someone, it would be nice to have some support from people who have similar interests, i never heard anything about the blackbird thing, but now, due to the current post, i do and will not deal w/ them, if peopkle have to fear being bashed for telling what happened or updating their story about their dilemna then they are going to stop coming forward, i know in my situation, granted, i should have looked, but you think other peole would want to know about so they don't deal w/ the guy and wind up in a similar situation, there are honest peole out there and there are scumbags, if we know who the scumbags are we won't deal w/ them and w/ any luck they'll go away!!!