ECU Failed?

[angleiron4]

O.K.,

Had something weird happen when I turned the key for the engine. Tach gauge started jumping, error message came up on smartcraft gauge, other things but will not psot to shorten story.

Took to dealer, they looked at it, determined something in the ECU went south. Motor still under warranty, but Mercury will not cover it according to the dealer. Why I asked? Mercury thinks that it was a rigging problem that caused the ECU to fail. I stated to them that the motor has 42 hours on it, and has not been touched in any way in regards to rigging, wiring, anything.

Called Mercury, and they had no idea of what I was talking about in regards to even knowing about the problem. New ECU costs $1600.00, and if I had done something wrong then I would eat it..but I did not. So I told the dealer, lets make a deal. If Mercury thinks that it is something that involves the wiring of the boat, I will pay to have the dealer to go through every bit of the rigging to check for anything. if they find nothing, then the ECU is covered under warranty, if not...then I pay for it. Is that a fair deal to cut?

[sosmerc]

Generally, Merc doesn't jump to conclusions...has a factory tech rep actually looked over the boat?
And what specifically did the guage error say when things started going bad??? (just curious, I've not yet seen a SmartCraft guage or system failure)

[angleiron4]

Mercury seems to think that the boat was rigged wrong, and the customer service person that I spoke with said something about the SmartCraft monitor being hooked up wrong could have caused a 12V problem for the ECU. The fault that they said is a "Voltage Reference Circuit" open with the ECU.

The boat has 42 hours on it, and nothing has been touched, added, anything. 2 weeks ago we had a 60 degree day and I thought I would take the boat out for an hour or so, and when I turned the key initially the problems that I noted took place. The gauge flashed an oil symbol along with the engine on the rpm mode of the gauge. The dealer stated that he has seen this one other time, but it was when another dealer hooked up the SmartCraft system incorrectly and damaged the ECU...but this is the monitor, and there is only 1 way to hook it up...and it is pretty much plug and play.

I talked to Mercury, and they are willing to look at the ECU but I very much doubt that this will change anything and it is only a jesture on their part. If they are denying the warranty without looking at it, what is going to change when they alone are looking at it in Fondulac? I informed them that electronics, and anything electrical can fail...they had no response. I then asked them that if I have to buy another ECU ($1600 on my own money) and the new one fails for the same reason, will I be reimbursed for the $1600? No answer. The dealer could not find any short to grounds with the motor, all the wiring checks out completely, but it could be an intermitten electrical problem...so I asked why that could not be considered as to why this failed...no response.

I asked why are you to first assume that it was something else, when the dealer has checked everything over and found nothing obvious that would have caused this...no answer. I have no way to verify anything once they have the ECU, as they intend to take it apart once they get it. What I worry about is that if I spring for the new ECU, it fails while the engine is running, and then the engine gets damaged...what happens? I have owned Merc's for a long time, and I do not like what is going on with this. The dealer does not understand what could have happened, but for Mercury to make a decision without considering that before this there were no problems, and then deny fixing the motor under warranty because of a hypothesis (which is dead wrong, dealer even said so) is just not right.

[Fast Fred]

Attorney time :eek: thay are jerkin ya :mad:

[angleiron4]

Went to dealer with digital camera in hand to take pics of the engine, and the ECU...but the ECU was already sent back to Mercury for them to open it up. I was told by the dealer that they ccould not find anything wrong with the electrical system of the boat...but to keep my fingers crossed that Mercury will take care of this.

[sosmerc]

So did a Mercury Tech Rep actually go to the Merc dealer where your boat is and check it out? How can they say it was a rigging problem without looking at it?

[sosmerc]

If they end up saying the problem was rigging, well, I guess the problem is still between Merc and the dealer...it shouldn't be YOUR problem, unless you did some of the rigging yourself. At any rate, keep us posted because I'd sure like to know what NOT to do when rigging Smartcraft. I've done about a half a dozen now and it seems pretty straightforward.

[angleiron4]

No rep showed up, they shipped the ECU to Fondulac overnight. There is no rigging problem, and my dealer made that clear. If there was a rigging problem, it would not have taken 42 hours for it to show up (in my opinion). An ECU is an electrical component, and something failed...what esle could happen to have caused this?

My SmartCraft gauge is the monitor, and they initially tried to tell me that MAYBE I tried to hook up the gars tank sender to it to get a signal (in essence adding 12v's to a 5v line which would damage the ECU)...but this gauge is a MONITOR, and only READS what the engine tells it..and only has ONE plug that will work with it. ECU is suppossed to be looked into today, and IF I do have to pay for a new ECU, I asked if I could use the 2005 version which will give me 500 more rpm's (the only upside to having to do this)...and they will check into this.

[sosmerc]

Keep us posted...sure sounds like warranty to me. Run history and fault codes and fault history may shed some light.

[angleiron4]

Mercury still has the ECU, and has not gotten back to the dealer as of yet as to what they will or will not do. Do have a question though!

The dealer thinks that if they do not cover it, that I could run the 05' ECU which will give me 500 more RPM's. Does anyone know if this will present any problems if I am left to pay for the replacement ECU? If Mercury does cover the ECU, would it be out of line to ask for the updated ECU? I would want this so that I can prop the boat better, as turning a 30 pitch Bravo will still hit the rev limiter with the 04' ECU, and if I went any higher in pitch then the hole shot will be poor.

Either way the new ECU presents some small probelms, as it will force the engine to go through a break-in again (double oil)...and since it already has 42 hours on it if I exceed anything thing (rpm's within the break-in hours) it will show this as being a bad thing on the computer. This is not something that I am looking forward to, any comments?

[angleiron4]

Mercury will cover the ECU under what they call "Customer Relations", but I have to pay the dealer for all of the labor and diagnostics that went into trying to find what the problem could have been. How do I feel about this? Dealer says they need to charge me for 6 hours, $400.00 as Mercury had them check everything to see what caused the ECU to fail. Sounds to me if Mercury asked for them to do this, they should cover that as well.

[SCAngler]

mercury should cover all of the cost ...they in around about way admitted it was their problem.no way you should pay for anything.if it was rigging ..that's not your problem...if it's a bad ecu that's merc's problem .is the dealer your with now the selling dealer??? if so you need to tell him that he & merc need to get together.if this guy is not your selling dealer then somebody(mercury) needs to step up to the plat.

[angleiron4]

I talked to Merc about having to pay the labor, and here is what they told me. They stated that they could not determine the cause of the failure, so they are sticking by their claim that it was a rigging problem...which is crap. I asked if that was the case, why were they replacing the ECU? They told me because the tech who did the inspection of the ECU threw it away, and since he did this and they could not send it back...they are going to replace it. I asked, do you folks have a black hole or something...as this was just inspected today..so it could not have gone far? No response.

So then I brought up the fact that THEY were the ones who told the dealer to do the investigation to determine what the cause was...so THEY authorized the dealer to do the work. Since they did that, why should I have to pay for it? They actually told me that I should not complain, as they are covering the ECU...when they really should not. I was calm, and asked what proof do they have that it was a rigging problem, as the dealer went through the whole boat and found nothing?...no comment from them other than we are replacing the ECU because their tech threw the old one away.

So then I asked, what if I get the new ECU...same thing happens...will I get my money back for the labor that they are forcing me to pay for the first one? They stated that they did not know...so I asked what does that mean? They stated that if it happens again they will send out a field rep, so I asked why they did not do this in the first place? No comment. I was calm, and just asked the questions that made sense to ask...and their response was the same...we are replacing the ECU because of what their tech did (threw the ECU away). This sucks, and is unfair, as how am I responsible for labor charges that THEY told the dealer to perform (no, not the selling dealer).

[Trippin]

An Ecu will not be tossed like an empty beer bottle, it will go into a return fault bin NOS, and either be remapped and used again or destroyed in it's entirety with certifications of having been destroyed, with the serial number of same being duly noted. {I only have this information from a 2nd hand source, so I can't reasonably state as fact that that is how Mercury deals with it's returned electrical components}
Is the motor with the smartcraft equipment a post sale rigged motor or did you buy a boat motor trailer package from the dealer ? And,

What is the motor model ? I assume it is a 2004, 250 Optipop ?

A voltage reference circuit fault indicates a primary or even secondary sensor is not receiving or delivering the appropriate amount of "reference voltage" to the ECU for sensor signal processing and recognition of that component. Which ever component it may be. Rigging a Smartcraft system and making a mistake is highly unlikely, but you never know who's rigging these days.

If a 12 volt supply was inadvertently routed to the ECU through a main sensor lead what could happen would be a fault generated for that sensor as a "sensor out of range" fault. A fault history would only reveal what I have just highlighted, and/or the "voltage reference circuit" fault. A thorough electrical exam of your system was what should have been performed prior to the ECU being sent to Mercury, by a Tech who knows what he's doing. The exam is not exclusively performed with the DDT as some folks think. The DMM is also a valuable tool in diagnosing secret problems like yours. Too bad most techs and dealers don't take the time to resolve issues in this fashion.

The behavior at Mercury is very odd indeed, as well as your dealership. Nobody wants to admit fault, and, in all actuality may be no one at fault, but your dealership should make it right, your electrical problem is not that hard to resolve.

Good Luck

[sosmerc]

"The behavior at Mercury is very odd indeed, as well as your dealership. Nobody wants to admit fault, and, in all actuality may be no one at fault, but your dealership should make it right..."

I agree with this statement. Somehow we are not getting the full story. If the engine is indeed under warranty, and if the dealer working on the engine is a franchised Mercury dealer in good standing, there is no logical reason they won't fix it under warranty, unless they can pinpoint a specific cause for the failure that is not due to product defect. If Mercury specifies a rigging error caused the failure, then the rigging dealer should be held accountable. If the rigging dealer is not a franchised Mercury dealer or authorized Mercury repair facility, then you may have a problem. You may need an attorney.
I would like to believe that Mercury is still interested in your satisfaction with their product. You may want to copy this thread and send it to Mercury Consumer Affairs to be sure they realize that many outboard boaters are following how they AND THEIR dealers are handling your case.
Good luck, and please keep us posted.

[angleiron4]

That was my whole point...it could not have just walked away! The SmartCraft monitor gauge has been there from day 1, and the boat is at a Mercury dealership. It seems to me because they could not figure it out what caused the problem they are just going to balme "rigging". The engine was put into warranty late May of 2004 and had 42 hours on it. Rigging problem?...I don't think so.

This whole thing does not make sense. I have been a long time merc owner, and though I have never had any issues in the past this one does not sit well with me. IF the old ECU walked, and they cannot figure out what happened to it (what caused the fault), what is the reasoning for blaming the customer? The dealer spent 6 hours (seems a long time to me) to try to find out what happened by checking ALL of the wiring for my boat, and they found absolutely nothing that would have caused this problem.

I wonder why Mercury has a problem with realizing that an electronic component failed...as it happens all of the time in the real world? What bothers me is that they are using a previous example of where something like this did occur where a dealership hooked up the full SmartCraft gauge system wrong, and this generated a similar failure (according to Mercury). The full gauge system does involve involving the 12 volt system of the boat...but the monitor gauge does not, it cannot be hooked up wrong, tapped into, and the dealer verified that everything was correct.

What do I do?

[sosmerc]

You say your boat is now at a Mercury dealership.....is this the dealership that rigged the boat?

[1BadAction]

A voltage reference circuit fault indicates a primary or even secondary sensor is not receiving or delivering the appropriate amount of "reference voltage" to the ECU for sensor signal processing and recognition of that component.

There was a 2000 150 opti that was having weird problems, and wouldnt run right. jump on the gas and the motor would go into protect mode... several dealers said it was an ECU and wanted to charge the guy over a grand. It ended up being the sensor in the oil tank was broken. the ecu was fine. I'll tell ya, some dealers are real greedy assholes.

[angleiron4]

Not the dealer that sold the boat to me, as no one sells Stroker's local.

[SCAngler]

well it's kinda strange but you just had an independent authorized merc dealer tell you nothing was wrong with the rigging.the dealer you have it at nowmore or less has proved merc wrong.if the dealer you have it at was the dealer who setup & sold you the boat then i would say they maybe covering there a**.but since the dealer you have it at now is saying everything was wired & rigged up fine (he should after 6 hours of looking) all eyes should be loooking at merc & wondering why they want honor there warranty.gets people thinkin