here's a motor on e-bay to make you sick!!!

[Instigator]

Old Merc two cylinder race motor from the '50's.
This thing does'nt even run!!
Look at the pictures of the block you can see where the motor has spit a rod and been welded back together!!
These are the little boogers I used to race.
If I had the **** back that I've given away, thrown away, sold at fair prices, I'd be a rich SOB!!
The bid is at $1800. and the auction ends today!!!
Where do they find these people??
Unbelievable!!
Guess maybe I should be looking for cheap old Mercs to restore and sell???
Thats clearly what these people are doing.
The bastard does'nt even run!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1048645566

[Liqui-Fly]

Hehe just kidding. My brother has one in his basement. We were thinking about getting it running. Why bother I'll sell it broke and buy a new motor. Part available for these?

David

[Instigator]

One suggestion for you brother------------
SELL, SELL, SELL!!
The ones bring the big bucks are the "H" models.
KG-4H, MK-15H, MK-20/30/55H etc.
I sold a 20H for a grand a couple of years ago.
Mine had the toilet bowl coversion on it which was a Merc Mid section that had tuned exhaust running through it.
Made the motors come to life (and looked bad!!) but the collectors want the original mid as in the e-bay add.
See if your motor is an "H" model. If it is, I'd clean it and paint like the one in the add and see what youcan get for it.
I'm sure this one brought the money it did because of how purty it is. Think if the damn thing actually ran!!
As far as parts go, last time I tried, I could still get all of the mag parts at the Local Napa!! Most of the stores did'nt know this but I think I still have partnumbers if you need them.
On internal "hard" parts, go through the Mod O/B division of APBA and ask for help. They will help you w/o you getting raped because they are "classic/antique" parts.
Mark75 on this board can probably help you. He runs a 6 cyl. which is just three 2 cyls stacked up.
Depending on cu.in. = same rods, pistons, reed blocks, and
carbs.
I can build one of those motors in the dark, one hand behind my back and drunk!!
Did one while it was clamped to an end table in my hotel room while still racing.
They are a hoot though when running good!
Kept my stuff for years after quiting racing just for the cool toys.
Had a 9 1/2' Tunnel Boat that would run 65 with the 20H on it.
Let me know if you need any help.

[Liqui-Fly]

It's got the same mid but it's baremetal with sort of a satin finish and the lower is a little more polished. I don't think anything is broken; maybe just needs a tunin'.

David

[Balzy]

one of them little kritters drunk. Question is, is could you do it sober??????? We Ain't never seen ya that way !!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:

I gotta look in my pa's basement and see if my old 10 HP Hurricane is still down there. Hope he didn't throw it away !!!!!! Should be stacked up behind the fuel oil tank with a 3 1/2 HP Scott Atwater, a 7 or 10 HP Johnny, and a I think 5HP something I can't even remember. pretty sure there were four of them though.:p :p :p

BTW, that little 10 really ran when it ran. That thing screamed RPM's that you would swear would eat itself on a 8' home-built. Damn thing always started great at the ramp. Just don't shut it off cause the basturd would never start hot. Did a fair bit of floating in that boat waiting for the motor to cool down. Ah, those were the days !!!!!!!!!;)

[Ron V]

This is sick. And the cult followers of the "green Mercs" are to blame. They have placed these things on a pedestal and overblown the prices. The simple truth of the matter is that they were outrageously priced in their day, had weak clamp brackets, took 60 lbs. of force to pull the starter cord (and had no tilt-up lock so you couldn't even use both hands), and if you didn't have one with a gearshift they started at about 20 mph and damn near threw you out of the boat if you weren't expecting it. All you can say for them is they were fast as hell and had indestructible powerheads. How Mercury ever made such a miserable motor from a user-friendliness standpoint and stayed in business amidst the competition in those years is truly a tribute to Carl K. and his enterprise. Must have been the high winding horsepower because the motors sure had very little else going for them. Now I know Mercury looks at this page and all I'll say to them is they have made a damn fine engine for many years and I've had several, but I think it's high time to call the bluff on these guys who do nothing but stockpile and hoard these "green Mercs". I know a guy who's got about 40 of them, almost identical models, in his garage. That is not collection or preservation of history. That is sickness, and in the case of those particular models, it is an unjustified sickness.

[Instigator]

Yep to most of what you said Ron.
Had my first one when I was 13.
Had an 8 foot homemade 3 point with a '58 10HP JohnRude on.
Scattered the Johnnies gear case and looked for a replacement.
Johnnies best was 27 MPH's.
Found a '47 (yes 1947) KG-7 Super 10 Huricane.
JohnRude had F/N/R, seperate 6 gal tank.
The motor itself weighed probably 75 lbs or better, plus the tank.
Bought the Merc for next to nothing.
After figuring out I had to tie the motor down to start it and so it would'nt kick up on decelleration.
The thing weighed about 60 lbs, had forward only and a built on tank.
It definately took some getting used to!!
But, 33 MPH's out of the box!! I was hooked!!
Was bragging about it to a friend who's dad was the local Johnny dealer. He imediately enlightend me to their (Marcs) superior performance.
In those days, every company but one had their HP ratings made buy the Outboard Boating Club of America.
Guess who that one rebel was??
My 10 Rude was a 15 cu.in. motor which all of the OBC rated 10 HP motors were.
Merc Hurricane's were 20 cu.in.
My Hurricane was rated at 10 HP's so it would smoke all the other 10's on the market.
Mercs own MK-25 was rated at 18 HP's.
Guess what?? Same power head as my 10. Identical!!
As far as the gears, you are correct Merc was behind on this one until the late '50's.
The MK-25's had gears and a locking tilt and they hit the market in mid/late 50's.
I had a, I think '49 OMC 5 HP w/gears.
My biggest turn off's of similar year/models was the pain in the ass of working on them.
My Johnnie had a two pc hinged/lift off cowl with two suit case style latchs.
You could have it off and have complete access to the entire power head in about 10 seconds. The fly wheel even had an access plate so you could adjust points w/o pulling the flywheel.
The Merc of the same vintage had freaking brackets and screws and housing sections every where!!
I could rebuild a 2 cyl P.head in less time than it took to figure out how to hook up the carb/mag linkage!!
Had to be 30 or 40 parts between the tiller arm and power head!!
Of course this was'nt too big of an issue until the motors aged to the point of being finicky like Balzy described.
I played with and raced these little boogers for a total of probably 20 years.
I had peole calling me all the time asking me to come and get a free motor because they could'nt get to the carburetor to work on them.
Had to pull the entire cowling to get the carb off on the MK series of motors.
And you could'nt test run them w/o re-installing at least one cowling side whic was also one side of the mounts two the "bolt on recoil starter.
There is at least one each of every nut,bolt, screw and bracket on the bottom of Lake Erie from my cowlings.
Also learned about impact drivers and phillips head screws with that motor!!
We ran cu.in. against cu.in. and they ran dead heats!
There is a very good book about C.Kiekhaefer named "Iron Fist".
In it, Carl is quoted as syaing that he thought gear shifts were for sissies, (still cracks me up) and fought that improvement long and hard.
The first ones actually were shut off, and then restarted in the opposite rotation!!
Some of it is very comical in the lengths that companies went to keep from copying each others "good" ideas.
Here's another one for you old guys!
The old 40's/50's/early 60's Mercs would'nt use shear pins in the propellers because some one else was already doing that.
Their "better" idea was to use multiple (like 10 each), alternating fiber and stainless washers in the hollow hub of the prop.
The fiber ones (as I recall) were toothed on the O.D. to mate with the teeth cut to the I.D. of the prop hub. The center of these washers had a plain hole.
The stainless washers were toothed on the I.D. to correspond with the teeth on the O.D. of the prop shaft, and the O.D. on these were plain.
By alternating these stacked on top of each other and slid over the prop shaft/into the prop housing and by tightening the prop (which calmped them against each other) this became a clutch pack/anti shear pin :D
Two problems, besides them wearing out and the prop slipping continuiosly.
1. Anytime you had the prop off for any reason, you ran the risk of loosing one of these washers. With one missing, the stacked height is to short and you go no where!!
2. Could not run small hub racing props because of these huge hubs.
Those of us 13 yr olds that insisited on the best two blade brass wheels of the day, drilled shear pin holes in the prop shafts!!
You are dead on about these collectors though Ron.
I liken it to what happened with the Muscle car market 10 or so years ago.
One of the yuppie Mags announced that Muscle Cars were the next best investments to owning stock!!
Every Putz with a BMW and a Rolex wnet out and bought every car they could get their hands on and them stashed them away in barns waiting on there values to climb.
Best part was, these idiots were bidding against each other!!
Had no clue on "real" value, only what their Yup Mags said.
They would'nt drive, start, move, enjoy these cars.
Drove prices through the roof!!
Remember being at a show years ago and trying not to laugh in guys face that was trying to sell a "collector" Valiant or Dart.
Virgin car, but with a bench seat, no options and a slant 6!!!
The guy wanted like 10 or $12K !!!
Another guy had a spotless '69 Super Bee. He was bragging to me about all the money he put into the motor and how strong it ran. I kept pushing him to "quantify" that??
He said, Oh I never drive it!!
OK, put an extra $3K in something you cant see, feel or touch??? HUUUUMMMMH?
Same gig in my mind with these collectors.
I sold boxs and boxs of parts to guys 5 years ago that were starting to stock pile this stuff, waiting on the value to climb!!
My guess is, sooner or later, reality will set in!!
Worst part of it was the average Joe like me could'nt even think about owning a classic until these idiots got out of it!!

[ShorePounder]

Unfortunately the Muscle Car market is still like that. It seems Mopar out of all of them is suffering the worst. It's getting harder and harder to find parts for these cars and even harder to find them priced within the average Joe's budget. Take a look through the classifieds on some of the enthusiast's websites and you'll find ridiculous prices on a lot of these parts. E-bay is just as bad, and swap meets are battle grounds for vendors. They comb through competitiors wares to find the good deals, snag em up and double the price and put them back out for sale. Yeah I know I'm whining. I'm a low budget guy who happens to like cars and boats. I'm trying very hard to stay actively involved in both hobbies, and its frustrating when you see this type of behavior. Nothing you can do about it that I've seen that would be effective, so I just rant (cry,pout, whine, whatever :) ) about it.

[Ron V]

Hey Instigator, you mentioned how funny it will be for these collectors when reality sets in. I always laugh at the guys in the Antique Outboard Motor Club who stockpile all of this crap (like anywhere from 200-700 motors), then find out they have a year to live and have no way to liquidate it quickly and get rid of it. Those guys are a detriment to the hobby and the cause, because once they die the family probably just hires a bulldozer and a couple of 40 yard dumpsters and cleans out the barn.

We had a KF7 for about 10 years that we got in mint condition from the original owner. Sold it to a fellow AOMCI member finally because it was so miserable of a motor to run. Ran like a bat out of hell though; 31 mph (speedo) on my 14' Spectrum rowboat with the factory prop.

As for being hard to work on, Mercury was always #1 in that department. I get weak when I even try to think about the things that you can't reach with a wrench on most of the older ones.

My father borrowed Iron Fist from a friend and read it. Said it was great and relayed some of the stories. I think I looked through part of it too before he had to give it back. Great story.

[Instigator]

Or what ever your name is ;)
You are right SP, muscle car market still sucks!!
Here is an example of my take on that though.
Value of #'s matching cars has gone up for the last ten or so years.
I have a '68 383 Bee car w/a 440/6 in it. Value has staid fairly consistant for same period for this car due to it being non original.
I have all factory parts and know where they all go to get max value from this car.
Does'nt matter what people like, or whats the most fun.
Look in a book!
As far as the book "Iron Fist", EXCELLENT book regardless of your religous beliefs!!

[Flat Out]

I love them both. As for old motors I have a bunch of old OMCs mostly 10s and 18s from the fifties and sixties. They are dirt cheap,easy to work on you can get any part easily and they run forever. As long as they have oil in the gas you cant kill em.As for the "collectors" some guys are hoarders and some really use their motors. None of my motors are restored I want to use them thats what their for.Besides the ones that are all bashed and scratched up usually run the best, because they were used. The ones that are all pretty usually run like crap because they propably never ran well so nobody used them, so they never got the scrapes and dings from summers of use.
As for cars you could go on forever. My brother and I ran a Covette restoration shop for 5 years 10 years ago. We love cars esp. GM muscle cars but appreciate all types and makes of cars. Some are really out of sight, Mopars seem to be the favorite right now. Afew years ago I bought a '94 Firebird Formula 6spd. coupe for way less than what it would have cost me to fix up an old muscle car. Granted its not an "OLD CAR" but it has a FI motor that always starts without pumping the gas or shoving a screw driver down the carb, gets 27mpg on the hiway, four wheel disc brakes that stop you in a straight line (4 wheel drums suck), has A/C, great seats and a CD player.All this and its never been "fixed up" by any body else. Hope you are having fun with your toys because if you are not than get something you can have fun with.
Happy Holidays

[Raceman]

Damn y'all are a tough crowd..........at least when it comes to collectors. Some of us are just pack rats and buy stuff because we like it. I've been packing away old cars and boat stuff both since the 70's, but I've bought it because I love it and if the value comes later, great, if not whatever. One of my buddies who loves to say how nutty my collecting, especially of cars is, doesn't have an answer for the fact that any time we have people over, all the guys and even some of the women want to go look in the garage. At his gatherings nobody ever says "let's look at your stock certificates". Another common reason for the binge collector (and I fall into this category too) is buying of stuff wanted earlier in life, but not affordable at that time.

As far as the members of Antique Outboard Club that I've met or fooled with online, it's the most incredible collection of weirdness I've ever seen. It's almost like a cult and to fit in you must be transformed into this crazy mindset of hoarding. There are certain unwritten rules, or at least a code of coduct. The goal is to find every farmer's, fisherman's, or foxhunter's old outboard motor layin' in an old storage building and convince him it's only worth 10 bucks. Then they run ads in their publication and website advertising them for sale, but it would be herisy to list a price (which the club will absolutely not allow) because some outsider may actually get wind that there is a reasonable market for these engines and the gig would be up. If advertising for sale of course you only sell the common stuff anyway and never anything unusual, so your market is the "outsiders" looking to get started in the hobby. If you should see an ad for the an item on the website (non members encouraged) that interests you, the protocol is to call the seller, act genuinely insulted over the asking price (remember this is the first time you've heard it because it can't be listed) and hope that he'll lower it because of your wasted long distance call and trouble. On their chat board, these guys will fight you to the death over the necessity of this "no pricing policy". In two years of membership, I never found a single bargain on the website or newsletter, was insulted twice by telephone for not practically "giving" one of my old race engines to a member who called, and generally laughed at for collecting 6 cyl stuff. So I got out and haven't missed it except for an occasional neat picture in the almost never published club magazine.

I do have cars that are worth less than they were in their peak of the late 80's, but they were also worth a lot more then than when I bought them, so I guess for the true pack rat things even out.

[Tom D.]

I also am a certified car nut and know what you mean about all the hoarding that goes on. Seems if you got it, it's not worth squat but if you need a certian part its like gold. I kick myself for the parts I pratiticly gave away.
I do it just for fun! I have more fun with my boat and the people I meet just putting around! :D