Went and fondled a new GT Ford today

[Raceman]

Some people call it the GT 40 which it's a retro/repro/improvement of, but apparently somebody else owns that name, so ford simply calls it GT.

Anyhow, this car is awsum'. The sales manager thought he had a fish on the hook, so they took me through the whole sit in it and crank it process with full instruction/info dialogue, although they aren't driving it at all. It's the most exciting new car I've seen since I went with my buddy to pick up his new F40 in late 91.

Unfortunately there are fools on E Bay payin' 75K and more OVER list. (I've always thought that anybody that pays a dealer over list for ANY new car is an idiot) The current price level takes me out of the buyer's pool, but I told em I'd like to have a shot at their second car in 9 mos to a year if the sucker punchin' is over by then.

If a Ford dealer close to home gets one it's well worth anybody's time to go have a look, even if you ain't a Ford guy (I ain't either).

Ford is quoting 3.3 zero to 60 times and 11.6 @ 128 quarter mile times showroom stock, all of which I'm gonna have to see to believe, but it looks like it'd run the claimed 220 top speed sittin' still.

[1BadAction]

ahh wait for the new zo6 http://www.corvettels7.com/ 5.5lbs per HP... GT is 6.18 lbs per HP :eek: and the vette is supposedly under 70K

http://modernmusclecars.net/C6ZO6.jpg

[sho305]

That GT is going to turn some heads for sure. They say it does not have a bunch of electronic stuff on it, so when you step down it goes ready or not.

[CDave]

Here's an article on the GT, 360 Modena:Challenge Stradale and Porsche GT3 http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565&page_number=4

[triple dude]

What Norris is REALLY saying is that he will be looking for additional storage space very soon. ;)

[sho305]

Sounds like the C6 might have a hard time hanging with it. The reports speak for themselves, but as long as it is good I can't get past the looks. That Le Mans shape is just timeless, can't think of much else that has ever looked like that, and that is an impressive performance/price point they are at (if you can ever get one at list). So far it looks like production is limited.


I think they used a beefed up version of the lightning 5.4 V8, but they have a nasty V10 now with a different crank than the truck one. They made a cobra (Shelby cobra looking thing) show car with it at 605hp....maybe the 5.4 was faster as I thought they would use the V10 in the GT. They say this V10 sounds great.

Some links-
GT @ Le Mans: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=9&article_id=1590
GT info/pics: http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/ford_gt.asp
Here they talk about the V10 in the Cobra...605hp: http://motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0403_2005cobra12_z/index2.html

[GP-1]

The GT does look like a pretty serious car, but for the money you could almost swing a new F430 Ferrari.... and it looks like the Ferrari will be a performance match for the Ford. I don't pretend to understand all the economics of automobile manufacturing, but wouldn't you think that the GT would be priced competitively with the Viper?? They're close performance-wise, but even without the dealer bend-over you're getting right now, they cost almost twice as much.. They're both limited production -- not much of their tooling is of benefit to any other car they (Ford and Dodge) make.. I guess I'm not smart enough to get it, but other than the fact that the GT is novelty (ie. brand new), what does it have over the Dodge??

[Clyde]

This is the only car I lust for now. I remember when the "40's" raced in the mid sixty's. I had a slot car set (the big gauge) with one, way cool. They were the "big stick" of the day and would punish the comp. I have a pic of one on my PC background now.

[Clyde]

The GT does look like a pretty serious car, but for the money you could almost swing a new F430 Ferrari.... and it looks like the Ferrari will be a performance match for the Ford. I don't pretend to understand all the economics of automobile manufacturing, but wouldn't you think that the GT would be priced competitively with the Viper?? They're close performance-wise, but even without the dealer bend-over you're getting right now, they cost almost twice as much.. They're both limited production -- not much of their tooling is of benefit to any other car they (Ford and Dodge) make.. I guess I'm not smart enough to get it, but other than the fact that the GT is novelty (ie. brand new), what does it have over the Dodge??


Not sure on the production numbers, but I thought they were much lower than a Viper. But my big thing is like sho 305 said, it would be like driving a part of history only better (streetable, reliable).

[sho305]

I suppose it depends on what you want. The viper from what I read is a huge torque motor in a little car, and is pretty low tech. The Vette on the other hand is more refined and more hp per less cubes, though they seem to be going up in cubes rapidly for some reason. From the reports so far it looks like the GT is a bargain for the perfomance let alone the fresh/classic eye candy factor, but don't think the viper is really in the same class.

Hard to say what service would be at Ford, but I know there is no Ferrari dealers in West MI...going to guess the Ford might be more durable and require less service/etc., maybe more of a driver?

And a mid-engined car is just cool on its own:cool: Sure is cool a US maker can do that, as they like to hide in their cave most of the time and sell suvs/trucks. Look what the PT, viper, etc did for Chryco. Of course I still think Ford should bring back the SHO:D . I looked at an AWD 500 the other day, nice family ride, the thing had 18" wheels on it! Only 203hp though...

On the other hand you can buy an Evo or WRX STi and with a little aftermarket you would be right there except maybe top end....but that would not be the same as a ride in a modern GT-40 more or less ,with 500 V8 hp behind your ear....and you might beat an exotic car at the track with it too. Just like a viper is a different animal also.

[sms]

Here is Sir Jackie Stewart telling the press and fans at the US Grand Prix how much fun it is to drive the GT. Just think Raceman, THIS COULD BE YOU!

[sho305]

What? I think that is Raceman chatting with Leno there behind the wall isn't it?


:D

I found a Viper/GT test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0401_vipandgt/

[Firestarter]

Raceman, and anyone else.... if you want one come to Canada, legally they cannot sell the cars over MSRP. My next door neighbour owns 4 ford dealerships, they are easily obtained.

RT

[GP-1]

Yea, I'd agree that the Viper isn't really hi-tech.. but it doesn't really seem like the GT is either.. Granted, it's a newer tech motor.. but isn't it essentially a 5.4 mod motor with a blower on it?? This takes nothing away from the coolness factor of the car.. I was just saying that it seemed a bit overpriced by comparison.. I guess, if like Clyde says, they're only making a a few hundred.. Still that new Ferrari sits out there for 190K.. I saw a test on one that claimed an 11.7 quarter.. Faster than everything they've made with the exception of the Enzo...I know... You can't get one of those either.. and if you could, you'd have the same "market adjustment" pricing that that GT buyers are seeing.

The only real edge I give to the GT over the Viper is the sound.. Those 10 cylinder things just don't (to me) sound right.... but neither has the sound of an 8500 RPM Ferrari V8 (or 12)..

[GP-1]

Raceman, and anyone else.... if you want one come to Canada, legally they cannot sell the cars over MSRP. My next door neighbour owns 4 ford dealerships, they are easily obtained.

RT

Is this really true?? I hate dealer gouging as much as anybody, but I guess there's no "free enterprise" in Canada, eh?

Was it the same on Harley-Davidson motorcycles?? If this is true, I'm surprised I'd never heard it before..

[sho305]

First they said 1K GTs/yr, then I heard 1500/yr.

[Firestarter]

Yup it is true........ no free enterprise.

Although, a friend of my dads has a porsche dealership and when something rare comes in, he buys it and then puts it on the floor after it has 1000km and sells it WAY above MSRP. Like the new Porsche GT.

RT

[blkmtrfan]

Rob, good idea, but I wonder if Ford will let them sell them to the US.

We ran into the same problem 2 1/2 years ago, my wife had to have a MINI Cooper. We live less than 1/2 and hour from the BC border. In British Columbia (which is where she saw and test drove them) they got the MINIs about 6 months before there was even a dealer here in Washington State, then once the dealer finially opened (2 1/2 hours from our house) there was still a 9 month wait and of course they were charging extra. So we tried to buy one in Canada, and they (BMW) would not let us, the Canadian government would allow it but BMW wouldn't, said they wouldn't warrantee the car. So I ended up buying one in Illinois and having it shipped (even though there was a dealier with one in stock less than 50 miles from my house) :rolleyes:

[sms]

Just FYI on Canada cars, when they come thru our dealer auctions here, the seller must disclose the fact that it's a Canadian version and they take a big hit on high bids. Of course there is physically nothing wrong with them, but the price diff. is real. I bought a 99 Mercedes ML430 (SUV) for WAY below $ because it was Canadian built and registered. You won't make big money though, because you also will face the depressed value when selling. Everyone assumes KM to MPH speedo/odo tampering is going on.

[triple dude]

I'd guess too, that Canadian cars do not have all the emmisions stuff. Many of us in the U.s. live in areas where emmisions testing is done. Might be difficult and very expensive to retrofit the emmisions stuff. I'd think there would be customs fees also??

[Firestarter]

The Cars are the same with the exception of the speedometers, km'h vs. mph.

Warranty exists on both sides of the boarder. I know a lot of people that have bought on both sides. You only have to have a saftey on the car. Most of the cars do not even need the speedometer changes as they have both metric and imperial on the dash.

RT

[blkmtrfan]

Warranty exists on both sides of the boarder
Not true with BMW (at least the MINI's) we tried to take our car to the BC dealer for warranty work (even e-mailed them ahead of time so they could check withe the factory) and could/would not do the work, so we had to take it to the dealer in Tacoma, WA (2 1/2 hours away) :eek: :(

[10.5' Tunnel]

Tripledude we have emissions tests too ;)

[Raceman]

The car sold on E Bay tonight for 231,100. Somebody just lost about 80 grand to have one a year early in my opinion.

I still think it's a really neat car and went back and sat in it again about an hour before the auction ended. Supposedly there was a Ford Dealer in Alabama on it at over 225K. The GT & Panoz expert at the local dealership who had the car told me tonight that they're building 1500 each year for 2 years and 1200 more for the third for a total production run of 4200. He said many dealers won't get one since there are over 4K Ford dealers in the country. He said they're getting 3 and won't get #2 for 9 more mos.

As far as what it compares to, it's hard to say. First of all, I'm having a really hard time buying Ford's advertised performance claims. I'm gonna have to see 0 to 60 times of 3.3 from the driver's seat to be convinced. Even given the cars obvious traction potential with the mid engine which of course would put the 11 second quarter mile times in the believable category, the HP to weight ratio doesn' support 128 MPH terminal quarter mile claims either. I'd have put the car in the high 11's with a terminal 1/4 mile speed of a hundred and low to mid teens at most if I'd been guessing with the car weighing over 3K pounds, which seems heavy given the materials used.

In any case, I think they'll be readily available at list or below in a year and it'll look a lot better to me then. The F430 Ferrari would be an interesting comparison with it's list of only about 20K more, BUT they can be hard to buy for list, even after new models have bee out for several years unless you're a REAL GOOD Ferrari customer. My friend has his name on the list for one, but has no idea on the when part. He WILL have a car offered to him for retail whenever his name comes up because of the number he's bought new from the same dealer in the past and the fact that he's a BIG service customer.

[1BadAction]

hmm, i was told that it had a cast iron block... guess i was wrong. 3400lbs is still heavy* either way.




*heavy for a supercar that is, mustang cobras are only 100lbs or so heavier, and they are big in comparison.

[CDave]

3400 lbs is the curb weight, without driver. remember, that 5.4 V8 is a cast iron block and a couple hundred lbs more than the aluminum V8s... as far as I have seen, the chassis is steel and doesnt spare any weight either.

It's an aluminum block and frame. Go to this link and click on time lapse build. http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/media_gallery.asp?gallery=CURRENT_VIDEO

[BarryStrawn]

For that kind of money I expect you could get Holman Moody to build an authentic GT40 MarkII.

[Raceman]

Barry, at Turkey Rod Run at Daytona/Thanksgiving weekend this year there was a display there by a company thats doing the most authentic Cobra kit cars I've ever seen. They're alum. bodied and the guy said he's buying the bodies from the same source that Caroll Shelby is currently buying his from. They're doing a GT40 also, but if they had one there I didn't see it. If the GT40 replica they're doing is as nice as the Cobra it'd be a neat car with one of the new alum. block FE style 427's that are floating around now.

[BarryStrawn]

I've lost touch with the car hobby but was it an ERA? I know they make 40 replicas as well as Cobras in both kit and turn key versions.

The Holman GT40 cars are supposed to be authentic and made from the original drawings and tooling. Since they put them together originally I suppose that is reasonable. And it would be "Competition Proven". When you saw parts with that CP logo, you knew you had the best.

[Raceman]

That company was somebody I've never heard of, but not ERA. They had an impressive display down there. There's been a vendor for years that brings about a half dozen Cobra kits in fiberglass but they've just seem mediocre. This bunch seemed obsessed with correctness, and that alum body sittin' there with no paint was first class. Al their stuff displayed had FE motors (old style 427's) while the other guys had late drivetrains with air conditioning, etc on theirs.

[GP-1]

"First of all, I'm having a really hard time buying Ford's advertised performance claims. I'm gonna have to see 0 to 60 times of 3.3 from the driver's seat to be convinced. Even given the cars obvious traction potential with the mid engine which of course would put the 11 second quarter mile times in the believable category, the HP to weight ratio doesn' support 128 MPH terminal quarter mile claims either. I'd have put the car in the high 11's with a terminal 1/4 mile speed of a hundred and low to mid teens at most if I'd been guessing with the car weighing over 3K pounds, which seems heavy given the materials used."


I'm also a bit suspicious of their claims, but weren't they also the ones to claim that a 427 Cobra would tun 1-100-0 in 12.9 seconds (or was that just a Shelby claim?) -- something like that??? .. and on those six-inch-wide bias ply tires.. Anyway, I agree that 3.3 seconds from 0-60 seems a bit tough.. I don't even think the all-wheel-drive turbo Porsche's will do that.. I am a bit more optimistic than you regarding 1/4 mile times though... Yea, 128 is pretty much out the question, but I can see 121-122... and, with good traction (probably better than a Viper anyway), that could get you into the 11.70's.

As you say, it's all just speculation.. but I'd guess that there's no way it's gonna stand up to an Enzo (obviously) or a Porsche GT.. It might take a few dollars out of Steve Saleen's pocket though..

[sho305]

We will have to see....you know its kind of a Verado motor:D , not that many cubes but high tech and blown for power. They said in one page you didn't have to shift for 60mph, so that helps...likely would help holeshot traction too if it didn't bog.


I saw a writeup on a real nice kit car Shelby Daytona someone is making, maybe factory five? I would have to look it up, but that car is cool too.

If it is a tenth this way or that, how many owners are going to be running them for pink slips anyway? I suppose you want to get your moneys worth yes, but I doubt they would risk much BSing of figures on a car like this. I'll tell you one thing, Ford uses their same motors in other cars like Jag and the rovers and they make more hp than in the standard Fords....yet they will not use one in the new 500. They have to wait for the new bigger v6.:confused: Sometimes they are strange.

[trbocharge]

I am not a ford fan but the GT is quite intriguing. But, it is always interesting to note that ford uses a supercharger to make substantial power while chevrolet uses naturally aspirated to get it done.....Owning an 04 Z06 I am looking forward to seeing how good the 05 z06 compares. The 02/04 is a pretty impressive machine in my opinion.

[sho305]

The GT is a 5.4L, the new '06 C6 Z06 http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101005 is said to be a 7.0L at a comparable 500hp.


Hmmm, I think DC should make a V8 out of two neon SRT4 motors myself...but I like turbos more. The vette seems to be a real well-rounded car these days, GM sure can get the power from a cam-in-block engine...who knew. I would not mind one, heck I don't even have a rubber burning capable car at the moment for the first time in many years.:confused: Dang houses are expensive....

[Hot Shot Merc]

http://e25.ryd.student.liu.se/tmp/FordGT40dreher.mpg

[sho305]

Wow does that sound nice:) :) :cool:

[triple dude]

Now that you've brought it up, I'm kinda looking at ZO6's. Dug thru my magazine archives over the weekend and noticed the earlier version turned 12.6-12.8 ET's. Any idea how the later 400HP plus stacked up. I'm just wondering if the difference in $$ is worth it?? Thanks

[Raceman]

It might be worth waiting for the 06 Z06 (supposedly not one available for 05) AutoWeek has some supposedly covert info sayin' 500 plus horsepower and real quick 0 to 60 times. Pretty neat lookin' too with a hood scoop near the front and some scoops on the side near the rear fenderwells.

[triple dude]

Sittin' in that 2005 on the transporter out behind the Acuff Inn, with the horney goats in the background, is about as close as I'll be getting to a 2005 for awhile. :mad: I've been ebay shopping on standard C5's and noticed the ZO6's aren't that much more money. I'm not quite sold on their roofline (no removeable or lowerable top but have a bid in on one anyway. Down your way with 2700 miles. You're not ratholing one of those too, are ya? ;)

[1BadAction]

512hp 7000rpm redline, LS7 427 CI Gen3 small block, less than 3000lbs curb weight. 335 supercar rear tires and a better power to weight ratio than the GT should give it mid 3s to 60mph :eek:. By the Time it is released I'll be ready to get one. They already have the crate motor listed on GM performance parts, but it just says available fall 2005, no price or anything. The ls6 out of the 02-04 zo6 is $7,500- so this one should be less than 10k. if the 02s are any indication, this thing should be a friggin slot machine.

[triple dude]

Put that motor in your GTO, the GTO motor in your 91 Vette, the 91 Vette motor in... and you'd be set. :D

[1BadAction]

Put that motor in your GTO, the GTO motor in your 91 Vette, the 91 Vette motor in... and you'd be set. :Dkinda funny u said that, i have already thought about it. i think about a week ago. heres a link http://modernmusclecars.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10092 but the LS1 from my GTO is going in a stern-drive 20 liberator with an arneson and twin turbos! :eek: lol

[triple dude]

...but ya gotta leave the GTO valve covers on it!!!! :D

[sms]

Raceman,
Be sure to get the suspension swing arm fix on your GT. There is a recall out already due to one being found cracked.

[1BadAction]

...but ya gotta leave the GTO valve covers on it!!!! :DLOL one thing the Ls1 isnt, and thats pretty. those cast flat grey rounded valve covers with all the mounts for the Coils need "beauty covers" over them. :D maybe 550 N/A horsepower will make up for all the ugliness thats left under the goats hood when i steal the covers from it :eek:

[Shaun Barcelow]

Assuming I had $150,000 to spend on a sports car, why not spend a little more ($190,500) and get the F430:

C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION: Seconds
Zero to 30 mph: 1.3
40 mph: 1.8
50 mph: 2.8
60 mph: 3.5
70 mph: 4.2
80 mph: 5.4
90 mph: 6.5
100 mph: 7.9
110 mph: 9.3
120 mph: 11.0
130 mph: 13.0
Street start, 5-60 mph: 4.0
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph*: 3.6
50-70 mph: 5.6
Standing 1/4-mile: 11.7 sec @ 123 mph
Top speed (redline limited): 186 mph

[Raceman]

Shaun, I've got a little experience with the Ferrari market actually. First of all, if history repeats itself, the F430 won't be generally available for some time, UNLESS you're a regular Ferrari customer, have some other connection or want to pay a big premium over list. The same can be said for the Ford GT right now, BUT that's likely to change relatively soon after the intial market shock wears off and the silk sock crowd starts lookin' for another novelty.................. it's not likely to change with the Ferrari in the next year or so. Also, my friend who's the Ferrari collector has astronomical bills in the service department, not because of failures, because they've proven unbelievably reliable, but rather just with scheduled maintainance type stuff. If you believe Ford's published figures on the GT, or think it's even within the ballpark, the GT's gonna outperform the F430 substantially in not only acceleration, but top speed, slalom, and lap times as well. Again, it's all just advertising hype right now and yet to be proven to a skeptic like me. What I DO HAVE is hundreds of laps at Road Atlanta and Roebling Road driving my friends F40, and quite a few in his 355 with slicks also, and with Ford's published performance figures superior to those of the F40..........again, I'm gonna have to see it from the driver's seat to believe it.

[sho305]

I'm not in this market, but if I had a toy like that I would be wanting to use it. So I would shy away from some of the exotics like Ferrari due to service issues not to mention the huge speculatory game. A Porsche, maybe a RUF, would be better for example for me from what I know...and this Ford certainly has better availability for service/parts/etc. The GT is new also (and US made)...parhaps similiar to the Ferrari but not the same IMO. Maybe its like comparing a Shelby Daytona to a Jag XKE of the late '60s, both similiar but not the same. Ok so the Daytona was not really a production car but same point made.:)

Ferraris are impressive, but being a car guy they sure have a lot of baggage to go along with them. To me its just another car and I'm not into the speculation game with them. That and I really hate waiting in line...if you want my money you better be there to take it or you are not getting it. I can't shop at the local best buy because they have the slowest checkout I ever seen...if I had to wait a year for a Ferrari (that they make all the time) then what is the difference. Too many choices out there to be such a chump. If it were going to sit in my heated show room then I guess I would not care.

[racer]

Talked to a guy that has a new gt40 last week, he is putting it on e-bay because he said it is so noisy ( engine) inside he did not like to drive it. He said that he is going back to a Viper.

[1BadAction]

Talked to a guy that has a new gt40 last week, he is putting it on e-bay because he said it is so noisy ( engine) inside he did not like to drive it. He said that he is going back to a Viper.
:eek: and the viper isn't the quietest performance car either...