Boat racing venues

[BLACKBIRD]

There has been much discussion in the racers hang out about boat racing and what it needs. I wanted to start a thread to get some discussion on what the spectator would like to see. I realize that everyone may have there own favorite class but

I would appreciate it if you LEFT OUT CLASS IDENTITIES, we don't want to bring that discussion up here. Just talk about what you would like to see in a boat race.

This board is full of performance boating enthusiests and it would seem that this is where good spectators opinions would be.

how many laps, left turns , right turns , what way a race should start, pit stops, cautions, multi classes, marathons, closer to crowds, figure eights, boats towing cars, multi drivers ect ect..

It is my opinion that boat racing needs new venues, so let hear your ideas

[BLACKBIRD]

I feel that pit stops would be a great asset to spectator involvement. It certainly works with NASCAR. this would bring a team effort in the mix. Of course new sites would have to be friendly to this, But it also might be easier to sell to a potetial sponsor.

Something like pulling into the dock, one member has to pull a safty switch to make sure the boat has not the abillity to restart, then another member can pull a 3 gallon removable fuel cell and insert another one. The safty switch can be reinserted and an official can give a green flag to go when he sees all is ok.

[JTS Racing]

There are times when throwing away what's broke and buying new is the better option. Instead of trying to "fix" what you think might be wrong, approach it from a different perspective. Start from the beginning!

Boat racing has and will continue to suffer from the politics within. Rules over the years have been written to accommodate certain types of engines, hull manufactures, and in some cases the racers themselves. All the deep dark secrets of engines and what's inside with little aftermarket component competition to allow the the sport to flex itself through income levels the way auto sports has. Power struggles over the control of race sites have caused the cities or governmental agencies to "just say NO" and the tree huggers are wispering in their ear every chance they get. Insurance has a rope around the clubs neck, yet motorcross has an amazing amout of injuries and it's thriving...why? (Hint...it's something kid's can do) You want it to succeed? Sit back and look at it as a business with a new product. Can you introduce, start up, market and sell it????

[spn#43]

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56420&perpage=15&pagenumber=4


Major City races, new venues, new venues and new venues.

[RNM018]

Jeff , We all know and enjoy the Eustis site . Does not matter who runs there . It's just a great place for these kind of events . I'm sure the city would be willing to hear from any of the boating community . Also not sure if you know , but the city of Sanford just spent MILLONS of dollars to rebuild there RIVER WALK . Large pit area would be avalible , with 6 slip ramp . Plus overflow boat parking across the street next to Court House . Hotel & Restraunt at the marina . Just something to consider . Rich Martin 018

[B. Vruwink]

Anything where the politics between the manufacturers gets involved is bad. That is the reason NASCAR succeeds. Bill France dictated to the auto makers what they could or couldn't do instead of the other way around. This is what killed snowmobile racing, APBA pleasure boat racing, and a host of similiar others. Forget the manufacturers and all their contingency money and have a level field for the competitors.

The spectator wants to do more than watch a race. The last time(years ago) that I was to a (believe called Formula I) race in Minneapolis a spectator could not get close to the pits without a million dollar pass. Go to a NHRA drag race--you can literally touch the car, talk to a driver who is not arrogant, talk to crew personel, etc., etc. Spectators want more than sit on the bank and watch a boat go.

A raceing venue that the hourly working man can afford has to be found. 30 to 40 years ago that is why APBA pleasure boat racing worked. The working man could afford it. Today, racing has got so specialized and costly that the average joe cannot participate.

I have been watching offshore racing in Europe . Go to threads by Espen on this board. Very low cost racing. Go to http://www.nynashamnssegelsallskap.nu/Kommiteer/Offshore/vmstart.htm. According to their web site they had 300,000 spectators. Fantastic for a relatively small sport.

Maybe that is why drag boat racing is catching on. The spectator can co-mingle in the pits and race area.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Bruce V.

[tabararacing]

I think the sport is lacking promoters which in turn is venues. I realize there are alot of organizations out there, however there arent alot of races in each of those series.
I have been talking with some others about this for some time. There are some classes out there with some really cool rules. I know that you asked not to do this, but the formula 150 class has some really cool rules. It allows someone to sit down and recipee multiple engine combinations that could be competitive.
But I absoultely agree, the sport must be sold as a new sport to the American public, like a new EXTREME way of boating. It seems as though you add extreme to anything nowadays and it catches on...
Brian

ON a side note, at ever TCPBA event race we close everything down for a spectator meet the drivers and crew. There is a rule that no wrenching be done during this time. We have gained members through this. I have to admit, I enjoy having the people come over and tell us they enjoy the show, and want to know why there arent more boats, or more races....

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by tabararacing
I think the sport is lacking promoters which in turn is venues. I realize there are alot of organizations out there, however there arent alot of races in each of those series.


Promoters is not a problem. One simple problem again is control issues. Promoters do one thing and do it well since it determines the size of their paycheck. Some org's, clubs, whatever you want to call um, want to come in and dictate how the show is run.......well....it don't work like that. The promoter does his homework and knows the area, businesses, possibilities and will do what it will takes to put the spectators on the bank. Larger turnouts leads to larger purses from sponsor participation. All the club has to do is show up, fit in the program and race. Due to my position within the company, I have had the pleasure of being around a couple of the best promoters in this area. This post would get deleted quick if I told you what they had to say about those they have tried to deal with when it came to boat racing. Simply put, they said "those guys are in a world of their own".

Several years back, I ran a national circuit. Each stop had a different promotion company. One of them did something none of the others did and was really cool. They did a show at the largest mall in town on Thursday night due to Friday being the first day of qualifying. Boats were set up inside the mall, crews and drivers were on hand to meet the public, vip passes were handed out to the kids, and a drawing was held that put some lucky kid on each crew that was represented. They got a team shirt, and were announced as part of that team during the program. All was paid for by sponsors within the mall. Did wonders for the image and spectator turnout was great.

I don't suspect that boat racing will ever be as large as auto racing, but it could be a lot bigger than it currently is.

[Rocket]

Talking about spectators & Promoting!

At the IHBA Lake Fest in Marble Falls Texas last weekend, there were over 25,000 fans each day (Saterday & Sunday)!:eek: :eek: :eek: There were over 5,000 Fans at the Friday night "Show & Shine"!


Now if we could get that at every venue then the Sponsers and $$$$ would follow!;)


Lake Fest Web site! (http://www.marblefallslakefest.com)


Hey Jeff, Ya coming to Smokin in the Cove????:D :p


http://www.motorsportspictures.com/sdba/mf_ihba/images/2004mf463.jpg

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by Rocket
Talking about spectators & Promoting!

At the IHBA Lake Fest in Marble Falls Texas last weekend, there were over 25,000 fans each day (Saterday & Sunday)!:eek: :eek: :eek: There were over 5,000 Fans at the Friday night "Show & Shine"!


Now if we could get that at every venue then the Sponsers and $$$$ would follow!;)


Hey Jeff, Ya coming to Smokin in the Cove????:D :p

Yo Mike,

Tha trick would be to get all the other folks to promote like ya do at Marble Falls;)

Don't know about SITC yet. I have to do an open house in Memphis on the 23rd. Been thinking it's on the way:rolleyes:, so I'll see what happens. We will have the 1000' sensor this weekend set up at Livermore. Depending on the no spray time and if I can get an exhibition run with the spray.....I'll make up my mind and see if any packets are still available.:cool:

[BLACKBIRD]

JTS you couldn't be more right. i too have seen the same as you with the race committee telling the promoter all the things that he could not do. At a race the promoting org. had sold raffle tickets to get a ride in my boat. The race committe was yelling at my crew about how much it was costing them to have a rider go in the boat (some insurance issue) It wasn't my doing and I did not recieve any compensation worth talking about. So guess what. That will not happen again there. (silly) But it was a great promotional gig for the site.
The pre-race mall show is a superb idea and I think that it is one of the best ways to bring out the fans. Promoter need to be helped into doing what they think the "show " should be. This also requires more dedication from the drivers,,, but more money will do that.

Rocket that looks like an excellent event somebody needs to massage that promoter.

But lets get back to the main issue of the thread what would you like to see at a race??

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
But lets get back to the main issue of the thread what would you like to see at a race??

Sorry bout that, but did we stray that far off? The replies are from racers and tends to get a little biased. Those of us here have a passion for it so it's difficult to sit back and "pretend" what it would be like to not know anything about the sport, go to an event, and it be exciting enough for me to tell all my friends what a great time I had, and be willing to go again when the races come back to town. Think about it......ever notice how a new venue that draws a good crowd this year doesn't ever do that well again....why? I'll admit, outboard racing can be boring....unless you have a real interest in it, it's just not something that appeals to the majority of the public.

Make it exciting.....the announcer can make or break the show.

Good audio....Got to be able to hear what's happening.

Deversity.....multiple classes....same boats....BORING!...This remark I have been told at the races!!..Got to get innovation back into the sport. To someone that knows nothing about the sport it can be hard to tell the difference between a SST120 and an F1. The drag guys running the same boat in multiple classes by simple changes to engine and weight with only a few mph difference in top speed.

Open pits is cool, but let's take it up one notch.....Drivers...don't wait for the spectators to come to the pits. Put on that Sunday shirt and uniform and go to the crowd. Mingle. Thank them for coming and get their input. Instead of us trying to figure out what they want.....Let's go ASK!

Everyone wants to grow the sport. But the club meetings I've been to is always centered around the rules and racers. That alone speaks for itself.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by JTS Racing
Sorry bout that, but did we stray that far off? The replies are from racers and tends to get a little biased. Those of us here have a passion for it so it's difficult to sit back and "pretend" what it would be like to not know anything about the sport, go to an event, and it be exciting enough for me to tell all my friends what a great time I had, and be willing to go again when the races come back to town. Think about it......ever notice how a new venue that draws a good crowd this year doesn't ever do that well again....why? I'll admit, outboard racing can be boring....unless you have a real interest in it, it's just not something that appeals to the majority of the public.

Make it exciting.....the announcer can make or break the show.

Good audio....Got to be able to hear what's happening.

Deversity.....multiple classes....same boats....BORING!...This remark I have been told at the races!!..Got to get innovation back into the sport. To someone that knows nothing about the sport it can be hard to tell the difference between a SST120 and an F1. The drag guys running the same boat in multiple classes by simple changes to engine and weight with only a few mph difference in top speed.

Open pits is cool, but let's take it up one notch.....Drivers...don't wait for the spectators to come to the pits. Put on that Sunday shirt and uniform and go to the crowd. Mingle. Thank them for coming and get their input. Instead of us trying to figure out what they want.....Let's go ASK!

Everyone wants to grow the sport. But the club meetings I've been to is always centered around the rules and racers. That alone speaks for itself.

Your on the right track! :D


Make it exciting.....the announcer can make or break the show This is very important! I know even I get bored or un-attached if He/she is not keeping the action explained!





Good audio....Got to be able to hear what's happening. I love the way that IHBA & SDBA (and others I'm sure) make an FM radio channel available for you to hear! Seems like a cheap way to keep everyone in the know! Plus they always spread out tons of speakers too!

;)


Open pits is cool, but let's take it up one notch.....Drivers...don't wait for the spectators to come to the pits. Put on that Sunday shirt and uniform and go to the crowd. Mingle. Thank them for coming and get their input. Instead of us trying to figure out what they want.....Let's go ASK!

I know that Marty Logan & the HOC crew, are never Out of uniform and Marty try's to get out into the crowd and sign Autographs at every event! :cool:


And back to the Marble Falls promotion,,,,, They always have the boats in the Malls a few days before the event, and they have boats at car dealers and stuff a day or two before the race, Sitting out there to get everyone Horny for the action!!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[BLACKBIRD]

Agreeded,,, it always seems that at a "happening " event there is always some music going on inbetween shows and loud upbeat music!!!:D

[Rocket]

The "Show and Shine" is a great idea too!

Like, The Friday night before the race, invite the whole town (for free) and set all the boats out (all polished up nice) and have the drivers & crews in uniform with there StarCards (Hero Cards) and T-shirts to sell! Play some killer music, Even have an anouncer then too!

Even better if you could get it on some cool street in the town! Or in a Mall Parking lot or something! :D Anyway to get th public viewing the Baddest boats on the water!;)

Also, you can get the public involved by giving a "Best of Show" prise! Or "Peoples Choice" award, or both!;) :D

Kids love to Look at big boy Toys!:p

[tabararacing]

Up north in region 8 promoters are the problem... We have 1 tops, but really its individual teams lately who have been stepping up and signing races.
Brian

[JTS Racing]

Here is a situtation as I understand it as of about 2 years ago. Any good to great promotion firms ain't gunna touch boat racing. There are exceptions like unlimited hydroplane, F1, Superleague, etc. and those are by my guess under contract. The good companies don't invade others turf unless it a joint deal. This keeps the upper ektalon in place and doing what it is susposed to do. That leaves the "so called" guys put on a race and we have all heard horror stories concerning them. The bad guys set a rep for the boat racing club even though it wasn't their fault and now to walk into the office of a good firm and ask for help.....well ya might get directions to the rest room.

A buddy of mine just graduated this past spring. His girl friend for the past few years is a marketing major. She was willing to take on an event, form a team and do a promotion as part of a school project. Only thing they were asking for is the expenses of doing the promotion....no personal pay. All proceeds, less expenses, taken in as a result of sponsor gig would go to the club. Ran the idea across a couple clubs and guess what the answer was? It was an honorable jesture.....maybe I should have done a more formal layout with powerpoint.:rolleyes:

[lhovan49]

Need to try to find a way to get the everyday lake boater involved, some place for the guys with the lets say a the bayliners and your family boats going. Were did NHRA or IHRA start. not everyone owns an STV or Mirage, but we all started someplace, get the people out playing and they will step up. people are amased to see a lake boat do 100mph, can they relate, maybe not, but if you can go line up with you bud down the lake and kick his but, he's going back the barn and the next is hitory, something to build with. Hell last year we had a guy that showed for our radar run with a pontoon, only did 50 but started the masses talking. Not for everyone but you got to start somewhere. the next thing is most people don't know we are anywere around. Up here we are pulling about 9 boats together for the World of Wheels, witer car show, they are thrilled to have us coming, only reason is to get some information out, it may be different were you are but up here most people don't know we are here. just my .02 well maybe a nickel

[JTS Racing]

Yea, I know strayed again. Kinda hard to stay on track with this one.

What type of spectator do you wish to draw? By this I mean gender and average age? Who do feel would be the most likely to attend based on what's offered at the event? Family, guys, gals, kids? WHY? It's a lot easier to target a specific rather than a broad sweep.

[Rocket]

Speaking of Target Market! Here's the SDBA's Secret Weapons!:D

The Coor's Light babes are always a big hit with the 18-80 year old men!:eek:

http://www.motorsportspictures.com/sdba/ftworth_03/a/images/IMG_0094.JPG

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by lhovan49
Need to try to find a way to get the everyday lake boater involved, some place for the guys with the lets say a the bayliners and your family boats going. Were did NHRA or IHRA start. not everyone owns an STV or Mirage, but we all started someplace, get the people out playing and they will step up. Hell last year we had a guy that showed with a pontoon, only did 50 but started the masses talking. Not for everyone but you got to start somewhere. the next thing is most people don't know we are anywere around....... it may be different were you are but up here most people don't know we are here. just my .02 well maybe a nickel

I would give the put the odds of a family boat guy getting into racing around 1 in 10,000. The wanna go racing is not breed into all of us and then there's the financial aspect.....Family guys normally don't have the race funds laying around. I'll stick to my guns on that if you want new racers......ya got to get the kids involved and on the water!

Advertising falls into the promoting folder. I stopped at a market last year 1 exit from the race site....less than 5 miles.....and they had no idea of a race happening. The conversation only came up when they saw the boat behind the sub. It's not just there. Lack of advertising is everywere.

[JTS Racing]

Do ya sell beer at your events?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by JTS Racing
Do ya sell beer at your events?

Almost Always!:D Sometimes you get to a place that won't let ya, But at almost every sight there's beer! I tell ya it makes a ton of $$$$$$:eek:

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by Rocket
Almost Always!:D Sometimes you get to a place that won't let ya, But at almost every sight there's beer! I tell ya it makes a ton of $$$$$$:eek:


Is the spectator turnout higher at the events that offer adult beverages vs those that don't?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by JTS Racing
Is the spectator turnout higher at the events that offer adult beverages vs those that don't?


I would guess a little maybe!:rolleyes: But, I'm not sure you could measure it that way!

I'd say, without beer, most people bring thier own (if allowed). If they sell beer then you can't bring any in!:confused: I know I would want beer sold there if I was a spectator...!:cool:

But, All in all, if you are going to sit in the freak'n Texas Sun and watch boat race'n, then Drink'n beer is a matter of life and death!:p

[JTS Racing]

This is part of a survey that IHBA did sometime back that will give ya an idea of who goes to boat races. I really don't think it applies to outboards in a accurate sense. Them top alkies and fuelers tend to bring out a little more testosterone.

Gender
Female 36%
Male 64%

Attendance
(races per year)
1-2 64%
3-4 18%
5-6 9%
7+ 9%

Age
17 and under 12%
18-29 21%
30-39 32%
40-49 25%
50 + 10%

Education
High School
Graduate 42%
Trade School 16%
Some College 21%
College Graduate 17%
Post Graduate
Degree 4%

Household Income
Under $24,999 20%
$25-39,999 33%
$40-54,999 20%
$55-74,999 13%
$75-99,999 8%
$100,000 + 6%

Planned Purchases
(in next year)
Boat 29%
Car 31%
Cell Phone 32%
Home Stereo/
Television 30%
Household
Appliances 23%
House/Condo 17%
Recreation Vehicle 19%
Truck 38%
Vacation Package 15%

SO.....it looks like 30-39 year old males with a pickumup truck, high school educated, bringing home around $30K a year that puts as much priority in the cell phone and TV as anything else is who we are after:eek: :rolleyes: :D

Well Rocket, now we know why ya'z secret weapons and beer sales do so good.....LMAO!:cool:

[lhovan49]

Granted, not everybody is going to go out and drop 50k on a new race boat, what about the gut with the hydrostream viper or vector or that class. NHRA was built on the kid taken dads ford or chev to the airport, not John Force rollin his dads AA/FC out of the garage. most all of us started small. You do have to bring them in the bottom as fast as they go to the top, and there is nothing wrong with john lake home owner coming out for a few passes, will it impress you, I think not, but will his family come, mom, kids, wife the whole clan. Just tryin to get people out.

[Hack02]

At some of the venues the actual races are so far away from the spectators you can't really see what is going on. I know you have to have it that way for safety's sake. One thing I think would help would be a light to tell which lane won the race.

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by lhovan49
Granted, not everybody is going to go out and drop 50k on a new race boat, what about the gut with the hydrostream viper or vector or that class. NHRA was built on the kid taken dads ford or chev to the airport, not John Force rollin his dads AA/FC out of the garage. most all of us started small. You do have to bring them in the bottom as fast as they go to the top, and there is nothing wrong with john lake home owner coming out for a few passes, will it impress you, I think not, but will his family come, mom, kids, wife the whole clan. Just tryin to get people out.

$50K......For that you can run a tricked out Pro-Mod with all the latest and greatest gadgets. 7 seconds at 175 mph+. No problem with sponsorships and some of the events actually pay you to show up.

Trying to get people out is great. One time racers or those that will only race when the club comes to town is part of the problem. Added with that is get ready to drop a few hundred dollars just on safety gear and most won't do that for a one time stand. Racing needs those that are willing to travel, but the fact is, for most this is a hobby and not everyones bank account will support it. There are a few but when the ole timers call it quite, well, who carries on? Look at what DSRA is doing. Lots of racers in the area and the races are close to home. No cross country travel. I only run now with KDBA. 3 races at the same location and 1 at a different area. All aprox 150 miles from the house. No hassles or yearly rule changes except for areas of safety as needed.

Since there is no real entry level for youngsters, older guys and gals (we have 3 women racing at KDBA from the River Racer to the Top Eliminator class) that want to race will usually find a way.

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by Hack02
At some of the venues the actual races are so far away from the spectators you can't really see what is going on. I know you have to have it that way for safety's sake. One thing I think would help would be a light to tell which lane won the race.

Depends on the club. IHBA has a floating platform across from the spectators that shows the ET, MPH and lane winner. Really makes for a better show when its in lights!

[BLACKBIRD]

wow those statistics are great! I am thinking of 2 type of fans

1) The individual that likes to go to the fair and other special event that go on in their community cause they get stir crazy sittin around the house, and they got a thing for the food and atmosphere of the food and outdoor entertainment. also they like to see the dare devil exibitations at the local speed way. going home with the thought "those guys are nuts" in their head.

2) the guy/gal that is a hard core race fan. loves the competition and understands the concept of what it take to pass and that strategy wins a race, wheather it comes from a whole team or from just the driver. This person would follow along a with a racers succes. this person would have an issue from a media source that would inform them of detail where they could not attend.

both of these categories would be people that love the outdoor fair type event. and they would spend money on beer sandwiches sodas ect. they would leave the yong kids at home so the could watch the event unfold. they want to be told (by announser) what is going on all the time and want to be able to see it clearly too. They want time to loook at the boats and participants and want to know about them so they can figure who they are rooting for before anything happens. The also want to feel that they had a part in the event somehow if only that it was encouragement from the speaker to cheer for a participant. but also having the chance to be part of the team would make their day,, like helping to hold a boat while an opc class takes off from the dock.

everybody wants their moment in the spotlight. if you are as big as jeff gordon or dale jr. then it might be enough being seen with his t-shirt on you at the event. for us in the "not so big" department we have to include and encourge these valuable fans to come back and that we can't live with out them(which is true)

[BLACKBIRD]

maybe we need a traveling "crazy larry" that takes a special built boat for doing stunts. wake jumping, spinning, stuff like that. like at the local speed ways have that guy who drives cars into fire balls. sad to say but hot dog eating beer sloppers love crashes. and the like spending money to see them. Think about the commercials that could be playe dfor such a thing??

and no we would not want jet skis for this. On any given day you can go to the lake and see some idiot trying his best to flip or hit somebody. I think the world is quite "over" this kinda entertain ment

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
...... sad to say but hot dog eating beer sloppers love crashes. and the like spending money to see them.

Some use examples of Nascar, and I'm gulity of such, of what works for them.....why won't it work for boat racing. If those guys went out every weekend, did 500 miles with no cautions, no accidents, no bumping, not even a spinout, and a select few won every event.......how popular do you think it would be?:rolleyes:

[tripledude]

If space allows it at a boating event, why not tie in a car and/or bike show. I think a lot of boat people are also into cars but I'm unsure of the opposite. Maybe if I brought my whatever brand pro-street, antique, musclecar, etc, and wasn't into boats, I might get there by walking thru "boat row" and watching the races?? I might even think,"Wow, this boat thing looks pretty cool. I'm gonna dump this whatever car and run down to the local Allison/STV/Triad/etc. dealer and buy one of those!!! And NEXT year, kick all these guys' butts."

[BLACKBIRD]

good thinkin!!!

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by tripledude
If space allows it at a boating event, why not tie in a car and/or bike show. I think a lot of boat people are also into cars but I'm unsure of the opposite. Maybe if I brought my whatever brand pro-street, antique, musclecar, etc, and wasn't into boats, I might get there by walking thru "boat row" and watching the races?? I might even think,"Wow, this boat thing looks pretty cool. I'm gonna dump this whatever car and run down to the local Allison/STV/Triad/etc. dealer and buy one of those!!! And NEXT year, kick all these guys' butts."

Actually several of the events have such. There is usually a bike show at this coming weekends event for KDBA at Livermore. Ya really want to pack the yard, get hooked up with one of the up and coming bands or artist that might have a song on the charts and happens to like boats. Event tickets on Saturday are 2 day admission with concert for Saturday night at race site. First 100 through the gate or every one entering between 11 and 11:30 am get half price. Nothing like a little racing and partying with gooooood music:cool:

[BLACKBIRD]

TTT:)

[tripledude]

...and more babes!!!!!!:D

[Fish]

why not try combining it with other things that bring in more diversity. I think more people would enjoy racing if they were exposed to it, but how do you get them there? concert in the afternoon possibly? authgraphs form local athletes? Bikini contest, some equivalent for the chicks (not usr what that would be). a county fair with rides?

How about teaming up with a local radio station and doing an event fo rthe races where a boat that will hold a lot of people, some sort of party boat is on the water and the DJ boradcasts live form there. COntestants can win tirp on the party boat to watch the races, dj's always make these things saound like the place to be, and lots of free advertising comers along. might get a lot of people that have nothing to do and hear about the killer time going on at the races and come down. Then it is up to the races themselves to hook them into following the sport. Sell sponsorship banners to hang form the party boat to help defer the cost.

Additionally, advertising!!!!! I know it takes bucks, and from what I understand, that is a huge issue, but there have been times that races have come and gone and I did not know about it. I know I could have read about it here somewhere with very little effort, but how about the non-S&F public?

Sell tickets through ticketmaster. They send emails to peopl about upcooming evnets, and a lot of people go to their site looking for stuff to do. Even if you don't sell many tickets that way, it will get the word out.

being closer to the action (pits and races) also helps draw in new fans. I go to the off shore races and it seems they are moving us farther and farther away form the races so nowdays all you see is a roostertail. I find myself less and less interested in the races and more on what is going on around me.

Probably none of this is wirth anything, but just my $.02

fish

[gdfatha]

Originally posted by Fish

Additionally, advertising!!!!! I know it takes bucks, and from what I understand, that is a huge issue, but there have been times that races have come and gone and I did not know about it. I know I could have read about it here somewhere with very little effort, but how about the non-S&F public?

being closer to the action (pits and races) also helps draw in new fans. I go to the off shore races and it seems they are moving us farther and farther away form the races so nowdays all you see is a roostertail. I find myself less and less interested in the races and more on what is going on around me.

Probably none of this is wirth anything, but just my $.02

fish ==================

Fish==============

You input is as importamtant as anyone elses here...

I also attend the offshore races all over Florida. Thsi years St Pete race truly SUCKED in relation to being fan friendly.

Last year 2003 the course was just great and even the Supersport guys like Blackbird got to run there and drew the attention of the fans.

BUT!!! The F$$$ing Manatee concern and a sorta Coast Guard safety concern (due to the incident in 2003) reshaped the course to MARS. I have a 600mm lens and the offshore guys still looked like ants. It was not the race directors or the promoters fault.

My VERY BIASED opinion as a SUPER FAN is:

1) Advertise the race (At least a damn street banner) or on the INTERNET...EUSTIS is setting a GREAT example on PRERACE COMMUNICATIONS to all that include drivers/owners/sponsors and fans.

2) Have drivers and boats available to public access

3) Have races as close to shore (fans) as safety will permit

4) A dynamic announcer is great- BUT....he/she has to be heard in most fan areas, not just around the official stand..not to mention knowledgeable.

5) Rules that promote tight competition

6) Rules (e.g., 5 minute gun) that DEMAND and prohibit race delays due to racers not being ready. If you aren't ready , you don't race. DEAD TIME is the major cause FAN disatisfaction.

7) Variety of classes at one event. This promotes interest in multiple classes.

8) An unbiased (no class favoritism) race director and staff.

9) Anything else is whip cream and nuts on the dessert.

10) A PROACTIVE REGION STAFF. Race sites do not come to US.. We have to go to them..

10 1/2) Jeff has started this ball rolling please don't let it die.

marc

OH.### 11)----No peein in public waters...

[BLACKBIRD]

This is the kinda input that we need more of.

It is sounding like the race is OK but the setting is what is falling apart. I Agree with this

MORE input!!!! I need more people to post on this thread. I'll print it out and send it to people that can do something.

I want to here from every one that has an interest in racing primarily as a spectator!!!:cool:

It does take bucks, but I know that the buck are out there. we just need to get the right product to sell.

Marc it amazes me that the crash of 2003 in st. pete had that effect. Once again feeding the need of the racer, instead of the need of the fan. :mad: :mad:

[Jeff_G]

To ask and seek the input of the fan is OK. All of us even those who race are in reality still fans. I follow many types of motorsports and other forms of boat racing I am not involved in.
But before we jump on any wagon and try to cater to the fans we really have to create those fans. I would be willing to bet if we asked any 100 people on the street to name one boat racer not one could answer. If we asked them to name one boat I bet 30% would answer Budweiser and not another answer would pop up.
We have done a lousy job of selling ourselves and our sport.
However as someone that is trying to sell races, and put the best show on for the fans I have to ask myself what do we really have to sell?
Can we guarantee a large field of boats? How many in each class will show? What kind of show can we put on and will the sponsor/ site get his money's worth? Can we really give them something to sell?
8 years ago the newspapers and police in Beaufort estimated the total crowd at around 40,000. We ran pretty much full fields in each class. Formula V averaged 14 boats per race, SST 120 7 to 8. As our boat count dropped so did attendence. Last year the estimated crowd was around 5,500. We barely had the boats to make legal heats! This year we were not invited back.
Do the math.
This hasn't changed in 30 years. We ran a lot of 3 and 4 boat races back then. So in effect we are no better off than 30 years ago. How sad.
Until we all do something now to turn it around there will be no tomorrow. At that point it won't make a difference what the fan want there simply won't be any races.

[tripledude]

Another item. As a spectator quite often attending races to watch my brother run---quite often the time between runs is waaaaaay too long. I know there are safety concerns but quite often there is no reason. To a new fan, it would appear to be a poorly run event and they'd get tired of waiting and go home.

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by Jeff_G
We have done a lousy job of selling ourselves and our sport.
However as someone that is trying to sell races, and put the best show on for the fans I have to ask myself what do we really have to sell?
Can we guarantee a large field of boats? How many in each class will show? What kind of show can we put on and will the sponsor/ site get his money's worth? Can we really give them something to sell?
8 years ago the newspapers and police in Beaufort estimated the total crowd at around 40,000. We ran pretty much full fields in each class. Formula V averaged 14 boats per race, SST 120 7 to 8. As our boat count dropped so did attendence. Last year the estimated crowd was around 5,500. We barely had the boats to make legal heats! This year we were not invited back.
Do the math.
This hasn't changed in 30 years. We ran a lot of 3 and 4 boat races back then. So in effect we are no better off than 30 years ago. How sad.
Until we all do something now to turn it around there will be no tomorrow. At that point it won't make a difference what the fan want there simply won't be any races.

What should come first....the chicken or the egg?

In the past there was a lot more corporate involvement. Competition between Merc and OMC led to some good until politics started the "it's my race and you can't play in it" attitude.

But your right, what does boat racing have to sell? Why would someone want to sit on bank in hot sun just to watch boats run the 1/4 or go in circles? Were or what is the excitement?

We all know that for any product/service or even sport to be successful it MUST be marketed and even more important....managed. The sport must have a professional format to entice fans. I don't of many that will go watch some guys play at the local park, but they pack the stadium when the pros are in town...why? Really......why do people go to professional sport games??? Over the years some boat racing clubs have elected people to positions to run the club and oversee that things within the club go smooth. Few of them have any type of marketing format and don't seem to want any. They are doing the best they can at keeping the few current racers they have happy. This has led the sport down the path to being little more than a hobby. Some members are arrogant and want to keep things the way they are. They don't want new racers or out of area racers playing on their pond especially if they have the potential of coming in and winning. If that happens protests are issued and rules get changed quickly. So what's out there? Yea, the sport needs fans, but it also needs competitors that are willing to change and add new excitement to the sport. There are a multitude of problems that needs attention within the sport itself to improve its reputation before throwing it to loudly out in public.

So really were would be the best place to start......committed racers, spectators, or an organization with the desire to put the sport in public view with innnovation and classes that has the appeal to draw in the spectator base? Throw everything about the sport as it currently is into the trash. Look at it as if it's never been and your gonna make it happen......How would you do it?

[gdfatha]

Originally posted by JTS Racing
What should come first....the chicken or the egg?

But your right, what does boat racing have to sell? Why would someone want to sit on bank in hot sun just to watch boats run the 1/4 or go in circles? Were or what is the excitement?

HOLY CRAP GUYS!!!! Look at what you just posted!!! If YOU AS RACERS/PROMOTERS dont know what your product is OR HAS TO OFFER the sport is DEAD.

So really were would be the best place to start......committed racers, spectators, or an organization with the desire to put the sport in public view with innnovation and classes that has the appeal to draw in the spectator base?

START??? I'd SAY COMMITTED leadership!..AN ORGANIZER WHO IS DEDICATED TO FAIR/EQUAL TREATMENT of ALL classes.

The organization gets the racers, the racers ATTRACT the fans and venues.

I'll answer what you have to offer as racers/promoters:===>

-The excitement of pure racing on an unknown surface

-The opportunity for families to get out of the damn house and into fresh air.

-The opportunity to meet interesting /new people.

-The opportunity to SHARE all that goes on at races, the good, the bad (in some cases) and the ugly (in some cases)

- the opportunity to cheer for a favorite

-the opportunity to watch and chat with a person (driver) who races on the edge, no matter what class or age, risks life and limb yet shops at the same market as you..

-the opportunity to forget (for at least a day or to) the dark side of the world events

--etc-etc-etc

--and for you drivers--Its all about the competition and bragging rights. It EGO and WE ALL HAVE IT-- racers as well as fans.

I'll save the rest of the thoughts for later..

Have at it guys... and you should be ashamed you even asked that question....

The question really shoud be,

HOW DO WE GET MORE RACERS?DRIVERS?CREWS???

Now if each driver/crew would document one suggestion each to that question you will have reached the first step of the ladder to success...

marc

[JTS Racing]

Originally posted by gdfatha
HOLY CRAP GUYS!!!! Look at what you just posted!!! If YOU AS RACERS/PROMOTERS dont know what your product is OR HAS TO OFFER the sport is DEAD.

So really were would be the best place to start......committed racers, spectators, or an organization with the desire to put the sport in public view with innnovation and classes that has the appeal to draw in the spectator base?

START??? I'd SAY COMMITTED leadership!..AN ORGANIZER WHO IS DEDICATED TO FAIR/EQUAL TREATMENT of ALL classes.

The organization gets the racers, the racers ATTRACT the fans and venues.

Have at it guys... and you should be ashamed you even asked that question....

The question really shoud be,

HOW DO WE GET MORE RACERS?DRIVERS?CREWS???

Now if each driver/crew would document one suggestion each to that question you will have reached the first step of the ladder to success...
marc

Ashamed......never......It got a fair and deliberate answer!

I know what we as a racer have to offer. I also know from personal experience how discouraging it can become when trying to do all you can to help and end up getting told bascially your not wanted. I enjoy the sport and will continue to be involved for years to come. Plans are shifting slightly to type of boat I'll be running in the future but it's still boat racing.

The suggestion.....Create that organization that will run it as a business...not a club. Put the classes back on the edge with the latest technology in hull design and materials that will keep the drivers safe, but at the same time add excitement and encourage innovation with new designs so that every class doesn't have the same look. IE: What's the difference between a Funny Car and Top Fuel? Same engine, close ET's and MPH, so why don't they just add weight to one or the other and allow them to run both classes?

[BK]

HOW DO WE GET MORE RACERS?DRIVERS?CREWS???



One word: BUILD PRESTIGE

Driver's don't like to admit it, but ego is a big part of why they are race boat drivers. Everyone wants to be thought of as "special". Our sport gives them that opportunity.

Drivers and crews deserve to be in the spotlight. The classier and more presigious the racing becomes, the more people say, "Wow. I want to be a part of that!"

If the race sites/clubs take time to treat these racers as celebrities, then the fans will refer to them as celebrities too.

And fans simply ADORE rubbing elbows with celebrities.

At some of the Offshore venues, the local bars host 3 or 4 parties for the drivers with free food and drink in exchange for using their boats to attract customers in the parking lot -- after an hour or so, they open up to the general public so their customers can actually meet these "celebrities". A win-win situation for everyone.

Once a fan actually meets a driver at one of the "Meet the Stars" event, they often become fans for life.

Champ Boat also hosts a drivers party on Friday night. Recently they started a "Meet the Drivers" parade before each final. It was something they saw when they raced in Mexico City. All the drivers ride on luxury cruisers and parade in front of the crowds while the announcer introduces them -- wearing their vivid uniforms and waving to the fans. It was a great idea.


Other things that add class to a boat race:

[list=1]Race program with drivers names listed (Even poor clubs do this by getting the local Boy Scouts to sell them at the race, and maybe let them sell $2 parking, and split the profits)[/list=1]
[list=1]Race posters [/list=1]
[list=1]Good PA system w/ good announcers[/list=1]
[list=1]Teams dressed alike, in classy uniforms[/list=1]
[list=1]Drivers clad in driving suits (not T-shirts and shorts)[/list=1]
[list=1]Continuity (returning to the same location year after year)[/list=1]
[list=1]Good organization: sticking to the published program, good management preventing delays[/list=1]
[list=1]Self-disciplined teams who work in harmony with the race committee toward the same goal - Putting on a great show for the fans[/list=1]

[JTS Racing]

It's all part of marketing and it's not getting done. I've said it for the past few years but nothing ever changes. It should not be up to the drivers to do their own marketing. Yea, I'm all for the "Show and Shines" and doing what is needed once we arrive at the site, but setting up the meets is up to the promoter be it an outside source or within the organization.

And on the Ego part.....A guy, that at the time was an officer with one of the clubs and well thought of, told me that outboard racing was what it was and don't expect anymore or less of it. With that type of leadership....ya know the rest.

[Jeff_G]

Some of you are missing my point.

In 1982 I produced the first nationally televised show of the OPC and limited inboard class boats. We did 6 one hour shows on ESPN, The All American Challenge Series. There was an option for 4 more shows that ESPN did not pick up. Why you ask? Because even back in 1982 we couldn't find enough drivers to fill the classes! Some even had only 4 drivers!

Fast forward 7 years. My club N.O.R.A. put on 4 races that year. We lost 2 because of low driver turnout. Fast forward to 2004 We have lost 2 if not all three races because of, low driver turnout.

Until the time comes that we the drivers stop thinking only about ourselves and start thinking about the common good of the sport will we succeed.

I had a conversation a few weeks ago. the Wisconsin Grand Prix club is no more. Low driver turnout.

I have tried to sell races and have attended countless meetings with potential sponsors and sites. When I give them the numbers and they ask me about the boat count what can I say?

No I can't guarantee boats. No I can't give you an accurate boat count until the day of the race.

Take Conway, SC last year. I told them a minimum of 30 boats in the 4 classes. That's how many drivers committed. We did a pre entry, of the 30, 8 didn't bother showing. So we did the race with 22 boats. The spectator crowd was strong. The site was peeved a little to say the least. This year we had 18 on Sat. and 21 on Sunday. We pay tow money to each driver plus trophies. At this same race the site had 4 billboards, radio advertising on 2 different stations, and 3 of those flashing traffic message signs on the main highways. talk about promoting the race!

Due to the low boat count last year we lost an additional $4,000 in prize money and the possibility of a fall race.

So you guys tell me how can I or anyone else sell a race if the drivers don't show?

Anyone will tell you when N.O.R.A. puts on a race there is no down time, the pits are spectator friendly. we run a tight fast paced 3 1/2 hour show with plenty of on water time for the drivers. We are also the only local race in the SE US to pay all the drivers appearance money, plus high point money at the end of the year and the lowest entry fee!

So now what? Someone tell me where do I get the drivers?

[gdfatha]

Originally posted by Jeff_G
Some of you are missing my point.

So you guys tell me how can I or anyone else sell a race if the drivers don't show?

Anyone will tell you when N.O.R.A. puts on a race there is no down time, the pits are spectator friendly. we run a tight fast paced 3 1/2 hour show with plenty of on water time for the drivers. We are also the only local race in the SE US to pay all the drivers appearance money, plus high point money at the end of the year and the lowest entry fee!

So now what? Someone tell me where do I get the drivers? =========

==============================
1) If a racer committs to a race and is a NO show (without acceptable rationale)....Fine his/her A$$....or

2) Deduct National points..or..

3) Ban him/her from racing in the next one or two events.

4) If a chronic NO SHOW..Ban him/her for a year.

Does any one have a list of elegible/registered racers by class in Region 5??

Names not required just the quantity in each class?

This is not the first time Jeff G has asked that very same question. I have yet seen any answer to his very legitimate question.

How bout an answer...???

marc

[blkmtrfan]

OK so why does boat racing need to be a traveling show?

Most areas have some sort of racing that takes place in the same venue every week, here locally that is sprint car racing at a larger track and mini sprint at a smaller track. Throught out the summer every weekend, Fridays the mini sprints run at one venue and Saturday the sprints run at a different one. Mostly the same people race each other every weekend at the same place. Usually once a year or so, some big boys come from out of state to shacke it up a bit. But the bleachers are usually full of fans every week, rooting on their favorite

So why can't boat racing be the same way? (I am thinking roundy rounds, but drags could work too) Every weekend the local boys (and girls) shoot it out for season points in different divisions, heck build a stadium (Like Long beach) so everyone can see.

Just an Idea :confused:

[BLACKBIRD]

we cannot penalize the driver anymore!!! Anyone who

1) riggs a boat
2) puts that extra to make it look nice
3) times the time off to go to an event
4) travels like a mother to get there and back
5) ect ect ect

cannot be penalized anymore for not holding his/her end of the bargin.

JTS chicken or egg?? this is truly the key. and I feel that you have a good grip on what is needed. we need to find that ,,,somebody,,, with good sales ability and good contacts. It would be his job to sell what we have to offer. Next we need to figure out what we have to offer. What is the venue going to be?

More to the point---"OK so you think you are going to have "x" number of boats,,,,,,,EXACTLY what are they going to do????" How are you going to control the drivers to do this??

answer----MONEY!!!!!

On that note,,, let me just say that I have been racing with out a money factor in mind so I am not saying that I have not been justly rewarded. And Jeff G don't let this comment bring you arguing about the NORA races. I commend you on the efforts of the NORA races and feel that they have been a good program.

If you wanted to sell a new vacume cleaner to the market would you take an old one, paint it up different, and say " Here is a whole new deal and your gonna love it!!!!" then the buyer finds that he has just bought the same thing he has always had.

JTS---"Throw everything about the sport as it currently is into the trash. Look at it as if it's never been and your gonna make it happen......How would you do it?"

If you want to sell a new vacume to the world by ,god it better be new!! It has to look different is must smell different and when you use it, it must feel like none before it. Then when you put it in the closet,, you are glad you bought that thing. Even though it does the same thing as all the vacumes you had before it.

How do you get the drivers there??? find that guy who can sell a program for 100,000,, 150,000. If you were to send a flyer that informed drivers that the would recieve 1000.00 when the showed up you would get more drivers. then when they went into the SECRET driver meeting in stead of the open to the public "airout your laundry" meetings of past,, the first words from the promoter mouth would be "welcome boys and girls, here in this box is the prize money,,,, to get it ,,, here is what YOU ARE GOING TO DO!!!!!!

There is the egg! ready to grow into a chicken. The "chicken" is the one who laid the golden egg "the money" The promoter is the one who has the talent and means to put the chicken and the eggs in the right places to keep the process turning egg into chicken time and time again.

When the promoter looses control of his show ( the drivers ) he looses the next egg. and looses control means that thru rules and driver ego and of course just plain stupidity. the promoter cannot have things go according to the product that he sold. drivers too tired to be out in the clubs to mingle with the fans. Or working with a class that is prone to break. rules that don't allow the fans to get an up close veiw of what they came to see. Drivers going off somewhere else intead of on the parade lap right behind the guy they are suppose to be following,,,, stuff like that. I have seen it all!

BK I am glad to see you on this thread!!

Marc,, you are such a great fan,,, and if the world was full of fans like you we would not have a problem, but we need to attract those not as enthused as you. get them to the events, and make them like you.

Up is the price of absolutly everthing!!! and so part of the new plan should also be the price tag.

truly funny how bussiness almost always make the best sense. Since I had decided to not do anymore favors or cut my prices to make customers feel better,,, not only are my revenues up,, but those customers keep cominmg stronger and stronger (weird)

The show that we have the ability to present should not come for a cheap price. This is not girl scout tap dancing and we should not treat it as such. This boat racing stuff is highly dangerous and a "professionals only" sport. Once you lay out the bouys and idle your boat onto the course,, you are NO LONGER and "river racer", "weekend warrior", "pontoon on steroids" or anything else. you are a BOAT RACER, the elite of the floating public. And we should sell overselves as such, them live up to the standard.

[BK]

Sports held in a gymnasium or arena always do better because they are located in places near large populations, and are easy to get to. Same with car tracks. They have permanent grandstands with view of the full court/course. They also can race every Friday or Saturday summer night at the same time each week.

The only way you can get in to view these events is to pay a gate fee.

The majority of boat racing doesn't have any of those.

To overcome these deficiencies, boat racing has to come up with their own niche or gimmick. They need to convince the crowd that they are really missing out on something amazing if they don't come watch.

Bill Muncey was a pro at this -- he was famous for drawing attention to himself, sometimes controversial, but we later learned much of it was actually done (maybe even fabricated a bit) to keep his sport in the eye of the general public. He was a marketing genius.

If someone recognizable like Nick Carter or Don Johnson or Chuck Norris shows up with their own boat, thousands of fans suddenly all claim to love boat racing -- not really because there are fast boats, but mostly because boat racing was seen as a place where the beautiful people are.

Just ask any NASCAR fan - their racers are all celebrities.

We need to treat our drivers as "recognizable" celebrities too, and connect them to the fans who want to be cool like them.

Offshore just sent out a press release for a race next month in Florida --- More than half of the events planned, are designed so that fans can rub elbows with the celebrities; the teams.

From the press release:

Thursday Night Volunteer Meeting followed by a Race Kick Off Party and Thanks In Advance Volunteer Celebration, also open to the public. Race, Fan and Sponsor Parties will be held each night.

On Friday, Race Village opens to the public at the Boardwalk on Okaloosa Island from 9:00 AM until 8:00 PM, where millions of dollars of high tech equipment will be on display.

An Official Play – By – Play Beach Broadcast will be held at the APBA Offshore Official Host Hotel, the Ramada Plaza Beach Resort on Saturday.

Viewing of water-based activities and racing competition is FREE. [but you have to pay to get into the pits where the drivers are)

“Locations of our Parties, all aspects of the event, and updates as they occur will continue to be posted on our website at www.apbaoffshoreracing.com,” said Schmidt.


http://www.apbaoffshore.com/news.cfm?ID=620&Action=view


PS -- Michelle May-Schmidt, APBA Offshore marketing director, does one hell of a job of writing these press releases, as well as organizing the driver parties. She even arranges for press and media-only events where reporters can arrange to crawl on or ride inside a real race boat a few days before the event begins.

She doesn't just call the newspaper and say "We've got a race this weekend, hope you can come". No, she INVOLVES them in the party.

The result is a number of Newspaper articles a week prior to race day. Joe Smith picks up his Wednesday morning paper and sees a picture of a reporter sitting in a cockpit and says, "That's cool!'

It is something that costs next to nothing and what every event or club should be doing. And the parties are not just for the teams - but to honor volunteers too, and let them know they are appreciated.

She is always hussling and brain storming brand new ways to get people involved in her sport. Standing out among all the other sports we have to compete with is a trick. Most of boat racing would benefit if they only did a few of these things.

[gdfatha]

Soooo BK...

You have MY vote.. When are you moving to region 5??:D :D

marc

[gdfatha]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
[B]we cannot penalize the driver anymore!!! Anyone who

1) riggs a boat
2) puts that extra to make it look nice
3) times the time off to go to an event
4) travels like a mother to get there and back
5) ect ect ect

cannot be penalized anymore for not holding his/her end of the bargin.

===============================
I'm NOT directing staement to those that show.

What you are implying is those racers/crews that commit to attend a race and then are a NO SHOW shoud not be penalized?

As J Grigg states, the no shows hurts the entire field, the venue and the sport in general.

The same is true if you hold up the entire program (and fan attention span) for someone trying to start, change props find a new thing a ma gig.

You speak about $$$. No one will ever pay to see a group of boats sit idle.

In business that is equated to productivity...AND.. if productivity decreases or is low you lose the business and those responsible get fired..

Idle time during races is non-productive/counter productive and it has to stop. It may hurt the very few, but benefit the majority.

You ask "What do you have to offer?? Read my lips (gawd I hate that statement)..I posted the answer to that earlier.

As BK noted there is great material/info posted on the internet (OFFSHORE) by Michelle.

The same should be done here on Scream and Fly. The promoters of EUSTIS have started the ball rolling to keep the race front page, and a few others like Wiley Cayote are trying to keep it in front of the public.

Isn't there an elected official REGION 5 representative that should be posting NEWS or even CARES??? If so, please stand up and be counted.

Enuff said for now..

Latah

marc

[BLACKBIRD]

When was the last time you spent 800.00 - 1200.00 to get to have dinner with your friends?? or to have a conversation with them to fill in the last couple of weeks, witch was the last time you spent that much money.
Can you train a dog to do tricks with just a smile?? The cost of living (and traveling ) has gone up, Boat racing rewards have gone down.
This returns us back to "why we race". Do you realize that I can afford to set up enough events to maniplulate myself into the hall of champions in one year??
Yes I can start my own club, I can have events for just my class, invite 2 other boats to make a field (4 for regional and divisional) have a hole mess of races per day and acheive enough points to get there. This would also get me high points champion. How about not racing any race all year except the nationals and become National champion! If I were in a different category, I could do all this in my back yard and get my name on that big giant silver cup. All this without a penny of prize money involved. But the worst part is that, every time I put on one of these races, My sanction would be approved. An as we have seen, no thinking in (our) region leadership (or national) has been made to prevent this.This is where the leadership platform needs attention. It is like putting 15, 5 yrs olds in a room and letting them play. They will break up into groups,reject those who are not in a group, fight with other groups(for no reason). And create kaos. VS having them all on one project calm and productive lead by rules and good leadership to help them though the day.

And how about prize money,,, Now NORA has certainly taken the best approach,. buy passing out the limited funds to all the participants. This is certainly the best option to the resourses available.

Sadly, racing for just points seems to not cut it anymore. seems that some one in some other back yard that you can't get too. will have you ass beat.

APR is not willing to work with a high roller promoter who can bring in some big bucks,, they are tired, they are not putting forth effort to improve their show. It is always about 1500.00 for first in 120 and 900.00 for first in 60 with no future plans for 2006 and on.

So the question realy is "how" do you penalize a driver who welches on a commitment? If you have nothing to offer than what can you take away??

I say again JTS said it best,,How would one do this if we took everthing as we know it and throw it in the can, and started over. The advantage that we have in this question is that we have and understanding as to what is not working.

[BLACKBIRD]

I started this thread to bring in positive input on what fans would like to see at a boat race. There has been some good input. but we are going into the "airing the dirty laundry" again.

Lets get back to the issue. What do you want to see that you have not before???????????

[gdfatha]

Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
I started this thread to bring in positive input on what fans would like to see at a boat race. There has been some good input. but we are going into the "airing the dirty laundry" again.

Lets get back to the issue. What do you want to see that you have not before??????????? =========
======================

Sorry J. P..I thought I have been making suggestions for quite a while;;;;;;;

My bad!

Here is my "FINAL ANSWER" (based upon my 7 years in Florida)....then as a loyal fan I'll return to my fun stuff like providing photos of races, places and faces, mixed with a bit of T&A...


***Your question was/is: "What do you want to see that you have not before??????????? "

**** My answer is:
1) Dedicated, pro-active and competent Region 5 leadership

2) A stop to the FU$$$ing bickering between classes

3) Return to mixed classes at all local venues

4) All of the above...

I'm outta here..

Let's see how many OPC members support the attendance as a "non-racing...general racing fan and supporter" at EUSTICE..................

marc (just a fan)

[spn#43]

Who is going to region 5 meeting Sep. 11???

[BarryStrawn]

How about a blow over contest? Points for height, distance, number of rotations, and landing;)

[gdfatha]

Thats been tried in San Diego..

Left got a 9.7 and right got a 8.9:D

[BLACKBIRD]

you guys are killin me!!!:D :D

[spn#43]

:D :D

9.9

[spn#43]

:cool:
same

[spn#43]

:D :)

perfect 10

[spn#43]

same #2

[spn#43]

#3

[spn#43]

#4:eek:

[spn#43]

#5:eek: :eek:

[spn#43]

and #6
I told you it was perfect 10:) :D
Now back to original topic or Jeff is gonna lose it. :D :D :D (there is #7 and 8)

[BLACKBIRD]

WOULD BE AN 11 IF HE ACUALLY HIT HIS OWN SPONSOR SIGN

[Rusrog]

I have been actively involved with a major sanctioning body for the last couple of years and here is one of the things I find that is lacking in our sport...

VOLUNTEERS. Most of our sport is built on volunteers. They set up the tracks, unload the trailers, write the newsletters, register the drivers and try to do the marketing... It's not easy. In the sanctioning body I am a member of... about 5-8 people do about 95% of the work... The rest show up on race day and bitch about the work that was done before they ever got there...

And marketing takes money. If nothing else it's time spent making phone calls all over the country trying to coordinate advertising and sponsors with race dates and other sanctioning bodies. I do agree with Jeff on a number of points and I agree that paid marketing personel would be a GIANT step in the right direction... How do we pay them??? Expenses to race are already astronomical at best. Do we hit the racers for even more money??? It's a tough battle and without some corporate support it could be a very long battle. In order to get that corporate support you want to have a finely tuned entertaining'show' to sell them. (After all... it is just a show. To us it's racing but to the sponsors it comes down to "How many people will see my banner and in turn buy my product.")

It a tough job and you have to love it to do it...

Just some of my musings...

Russ Rogers
Ft Worth TX

[gdfatha]

Originally posted by Rusrog
"I have been actively involved with a major sanctioning body for the last couple of years and here is one of the things I find that is lacking in our sport...

VOLUNTEERS. Most of our sport is built on volunteers.------------"

"In order to get that corporate support you want to have a finely tuned entertaining'show' to sell them. (After all... it is just a show. To us it's racing but to the sponsors it comes down to "How many people will see my banner and in turn buy my product.")

It a tough job and you have to love it to do it...

Just some of my musings...

Russ Rogers
Ft Worth TX
=================================

Here is a FAR OUT idea for Eustis (in three weeks)..

-The pit/launch area is a distance from where 95% of the fans have an opportunity to see a sponsors logo up close (if at all) on a craft the size of an OPC/OUTBOARD.

-Would it be logistically possible to have the dry pits moved initially to the large parking lot where the food court is, move the food court on to the grass at the edge of the park? Then have drivers/crew/boat right there for fan sponsor interface..

-The boats at race time would then parade down the street to the launch area for staging. This would be done by class so as to not block traffic on the main drag for an 80 boat parade.

-This is done at Several OFFSHORE race venues..

Benefits:::
- Sponsor visibility
- Fans get touch/feely
-Fans get intimate with drivers/crews..

That's it for now.. Gotta greet Frances in the AM..

marc

[JTS Racing]

Russ, the money for marketing is not that much of a problem. I had a killer sponsor for this year until the rule change that forced me out of ya's game. I still managed to do ok in the funds area by doing the little things. Also, for the most part, money always has a little baggage attachted. This is only normal as a sponsor wants the most bang for their buck. Then comes the clubs egos that basicly say no cause this might cause a change in their format. Here lies the biggest problem. If the manageing body of the club was run as a business by people other than racers then the decisions would be based solely on the show. All the racers had to do is be there and run the format. I don't see that happening since like you said the ones doing the work now are volunteers and the rest bitch about what gets done. It's a hobby and all ya got to do is piss um off and they are gone. Ever seen that happen??

I too would like to see the sport grow. There are some things in the works that just might cause a shake up in the next year or so. One thing for sure it's got a 50/50 chance of success.

[CDave]

Y'all need to come check out a DSRA race. Grass roots outboard drag racing.
Friendly racers, good crowds, well oraginized and great racing.
Very good sound system, you can hear it all the up and down the bank.

Also all classes run Sat. and Sun. So if ya have a bad run Sat you can still come back Sun and have a shot.

http://www.DSRAonline.com

[W. Tripp]

Originally posted by JTS Racing
I had a killer sponsor for this year until the rule change that forced me out of ya's game.

Jeff,
I have a couple of questions:
1.) How many times each year did you run with the ODBA?
2.) How did the rule change in the ODBA's Unlimited class force you out of the class.
3.) How did this rule change cost you to lose your sponsor?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but you ran only in Unlimited at the ODBA's World Championship in Jasper, and only for the past couple of years. You did very well in the KDBA events last season. Why would your sponsor care about one event each year in an organization you do not normally compete with?


For the others on this thread:
4.) If a racing organization has a racer that only comes to one event each year out of 7, how should that organization weight his input compared to the racers that make every event in each season, help set up and run these events, and take time and effort to helping the organization throughout the year?
5.) If a racing organization is set up as a buisness, do you think all of the officials, inspectors, and management should draw a paycheck and have their travel and expenses paid for at each event and the time between events?
6.) If so, will this not make racing with this organization even more expensive unless corporate sponsors are brought in?
7.) Do you truely believe that boat racing, in its many forms, has a big enough target market to draw in corporate sponsors who will cover these costs and still have enough to increase payout to the event winners?
8.) If the organization pays out these expenses from sponsors money, how much and to how many places do the payouts go?
9.) What is considered a target number (for payout) for first place in each class?
10.) If a racing organization is NOT run by the racers donating their valuable time, but as a buisness, how much do you think the non-racing management and officials should draw as a payment for their time, dedication, and effort?

I KNOW what my time and effort are worth. There is not a boat racing organization I know of that could afford what I would charge for my time (and the BS associated with dealing with other racers)- if it were not donated to help the sport.

If you think you know of sponsors for boat racing, why keep it a secret? Let some of these organizations know about it, and help with events. Help the sport, don't just talk like you care...WALK THE WALK!

As an official and working member for the ODBA for several seasons, I have read this thread with interest. Keep it going. Some of the input here is great and comes from a FEW who have worked hard to help boat racing grow. But, for the most part, it looks like most on this thread are saying "I want!, I want! Gimme! Gimme!", but are not willing to put forth the time and effort to help. They just want to look from the outside in with disdain, or just show up and race. I am not impressed.

If you think you can do better, get involved with the organization of your choice. Or better yet, start one and run it like you think it should be run. Either way, it will take more involvement from YOU.

[JTS Racing]

In 2001, I attended 4 of your races as a spectator to learn the system and ask questions while I was completing mine for competition. I began testing in early 2002 and ran the last two events (Plymouth and Jasper) at 1100#'s when at that time the weights were 1050 and 1250. During the winter I made the change to nitrous and adding 150#'s of weight, of which aprox 50#'s of that pretained to the nitrous system, only to find out the weight was upped to 1300. WHY??? Back to the testing. I could not find a good, safe balance for the hull with 200#'s of additional weight so I turned to KDBA just to run while I found another alternative to weight distribution. After winning the points championship there in Top Eliminator, I added the weight, but was having nitrous problems. I ran Jasper and then made the pull to the postponed race in Plymouth. Feeling I was getting closer, I made plans to run the full season with ya and even attended your general meeting in Miss. to make sure no futher changes were coming. I went through the paces for sponsors and landed a few small ones and a major sponsor that deals all over the south. The terms of the contract was one that paid per event and better for placing. It also paid better for events that were recorded to be televised. After all the trouble I had finding a place to mount 150#'s of weight the addition on another 50#'s put me in the not so safe zone. I told the sponsor of the conditions, that no one would give me a straight answer as to why, and it was decided that they wanted no part it. :(

As for volunteering, instead of running and helping you, I commited my time to KDBA. I was there every event on Friday to set up the track and help take it down after racing on Sunday before I ever touched my stuff. It ment for some late Sunday nights but was worth it. I am a commited racer and will remain one for years to come if possible. My plans no longer include the outboard but thinking about let someone else run it in the TE class just to field another entry. I have found that sponsor interest is a LOT better when applied to blown big blocks :D

In reference to your questions:

4) Well, since that's directed at me.....I'll leave it to others.
5) Getting paid, but of course. Like some of the kart clubs do here, their pay is commisioned on the amount of sponsor dollars they bring in. The more they do, the more they get and I know one of the guys that is actually making almost as much as at his regular job:eek:
6) Ref. #5
7) It's all about marketing and apperance. If fishing tournys, MX, even small marathons can, then no reason boat racing can't.
8) To be determined. If those running the event are working on commission, then the remains could go to the racers. However, I would expect only minor changes to payout based on entry to remain until the growth curve reached a planned level.
9) Ref. #8
10) Ref. #5

Give me your honest opinion. If myself or anyone else came to ya and said.....Here is what I would like to do. I want to take over your club as the managing body. I will handle all matters pretaining to the events, officials, and safety and tech. You manage your club and supply in advance the minimum number of racers that will attend each event. The requirements will be forth coming as to event time schedules, format, and pre race activities such as public displays and shows that will be required by selected competitors. Your club will have input but no influence on the managing body's decisions pretaing to the events.

Do you really think that would work? From what I've been exposed to probably not. To make it work, it has to be about the show and how well it can be tricked up to get the spectator interest. Not about the racer. After all, that's what this thread is about.....the spectator growth....is it not? Build something that is in the spotlight and getting racers will the least of your problems.

But this is only BS on a forum, is it not?

[W. Tripp]

Like you, I feel that as long as the club mentality exists, progress cannot be made past a given point. BUT, in order to get a sport big enough to attract sponsors, the clubs are the main vector. Only once a sport has a fairly large appeal, can someone step in and draw sponsors and attract racers from these clubs. The issue here is that you will never get a club to turn everything (they have worked very hard for many years to produce) over to someone else. It will take another venue to attract/steal these racers in the same sport.


However, taking everything out of the hands of the racers has not done well in the past. Look at CHAMP racing - The racers get tow money, but little in payout compared with the costs of putting together a competetive boat (or boats). The racers are told what they have to do in order to compete with little input from the guys actually racing. If the payout was big enough, this might work. If the sport is big enough to draw a lot of racers, you have a show to sell to sponsors and the spectator. If the sport has few racers that are willing to be told that they will race when, where, and how the organization says, then they organization better have some money to pay the racers, or the show will not exist.


Racing, in general, pays little. If a team can attract sponsors, then the bills get paid by someone other than the racer. This is when a sport makes big progress. Until this point, the sport is racing for ego's - not money and fans.

And you are right, blown fuel big blocks are sexy to sponsors.

[W. Tripp]

When you wanted to know why the weight was changed in Unlimited, who did you contact? I have gone through every e-mail I have been sent for the past year, including all of those sent to the rules committee through the ODBA website, and cannot find one from you.

It bothers me that you did not get an answer.

[JTS Racing]

To me it appears we both feel the same about the current racing status. It is what it is, and it will take some tremendous changes to make it more. Ya have a good thing going. It could be better, but no need to get into a "what would it take" mode. I am in no way slamming the club. I enjojed the times I spent at the events both as a spectator and competitor. My beef is solely in one area. ...100#'s of weight added over the past 2 years for what???...Safety? Why? Too Proactice? // Class participation? Did it grow? // And don't even get into closer racing. This was unlimited "Go or Blow", not a structured class.

You may know already, that a couple of the bracket clubs are toying with a pro outboard class. These must be made to order or custom type hulls, not production. The thinking behind this is new inovation and an attraction to the unusual and not look like a boat that people see on the lake everyday. Might work, might not, may never happen.

As to the reply for the weight change, I got various e-mails from several once I openly started questioning the reason. Even talked to the the class rep. I quickly went from the biggest fan and a member to probably the biggest critic. I'll shoot you an e-mail in the morning when I get back in the office.

Jeff

[ApolloImaging]

Could this someday be a reality:eek: :cool:

[W. Tripp]

Great job Apollo Imaging!

[Casey]

sweet

[blkmtrfan]

Love it Apollo :cool: