Tanner Tonight Wed 8/11 6 pm

[at100plus]

I'm coming out to get some Progression rides.

Who else is coming? Weather looks like it'll hold up.

[Trikki1010]

Just don't mention the "R" word:eek:

[cm21]

I may be out, but not with the Progression.....used the boat twice since the shift shaft oil seal was replaced....leaking again......this sucks.

Might be dropping in the "budget boat" (1969 19' Winner) for the first time tonight.

-scott

[THE HOSER]

whos Progression :confused:

[progression22]

hoser are u going out tonite, if so can you bring the et?
I'm taking mike out on my boat today.
hope for no rain

[THE HOSER]

NO cant tonight

[progression22]

ok..cool..thanks you anyway!!!

[Scream And Fly]

Scott, I want a ride in the Winner!!!

[at100plus]

Joe what size ET do you need?

[progression22]

26 or maybe 28

[cm21]

Hey Greg- You'll be cruising in style with me!!! hahahahah

I'm still deciding if I should try her out tonight. I ran her on the hose for about 10 minutes and it seemed like the motor was getting too hot. I'm not sure if enough water was pumping thru, but I don't really know how much should be coming out the hub on an I/O.

Do you know if the whole outdrive has to be removed to check the water pump impeller, or does part of the gearcase drop down?? -scott

[stvhelm]

you picked a good day to get a ride in a progression. Its windy as BALLS right now:cool:

[at100plus]

The weather looks bad now here, but it's supposed to clear as the evening goes on. 6pm looks good according to accuweather.

http://vortex.accuweather.com/phoenix2/images/common/icons/03_31x31.gif

[at100plus]

OK, whose accurate, Accuweather or Weatherchannel. This is what Weatherchannel.com says for 6 PM?

http://image.weather.com/web/common/wxicons/31/38.gif

I kinda believe weather channel since it looks like the sky is going to explode here. Well maybe it will clear up

[THE HOSER]

when it really gets rough then your need a superboat :D :D

[SUPERBASH]

Specifically a 24 SUPERBOAT!

[jerry]

FRIENDS DONT LET FRIENDS DRIVE SUPERBOATS !

ON A QUIET NIGHT IN PROGRESSION COUNTRY YOU CAN HEAR THE SUPERBOATS CRACK !!!

[THE HOSER]

PROGRESSION COUNTRY

WHERES THAT?

[jerry]

NEW YORK !!!

[at100plus]

OK it's clearing up here. I looked at the RADAR and it is just a small but rather strong storm system that is passing. There's nothing on the Radar after that, so once it gets to Long Island it should clear for the early evening.

I'm leaving in a few minutes. (3:15 PM)

[jerry]

for now on, stay in jersey , you bring bad weather ...

[PhastBoat]

RAIN LIGHTNING AND THUNDER

[SUPERBASH]

Bad weather is SUPERBOAT weather.

[jerry]

5:45PM
RAIN LIGHTNING AND THUNDER

7:30 JERRY AND AT100PLUS TOOLING AROUND IN A 24 LD PROGRESSION , UNSTOPPABLE .....

[SUPERBASH]

SHI*!!! I thought I heard someone out there. Was contemplating. Didn't know it was jerry. Next time.

[THE HOSER]

its been quite i guess jerry was hit by lightning

[mragu]

it was jerry driving my boat. it costed me a meal at southside last night. how can a man eat 2-5lb lobsters in less time than it took me to eat 6 clams. :D

[SUPERBASH]

hmmmm....so the "cracking" jerry hears is coming from his own bucket seats.... I see.

[at100plus]

Got my ride in Mike's 24. Nice boat. GREAT ride. It was pretty damn snotty out there too.

These photos, and the photos in Mike's (Mragu) for sale ad don't do the paint justice. It was done right, and the metallic blue/silver graphics look really nice in person. The boat has all new hardware and rigging, I love the steering wheel too.

[at100plus]

7

[at100plus]

8

[at100plus]

9

[THE HOSER]

mike whats the deal?
you looking to buy one?

[at100plus]

Not sure. I liked the ride of the 24, but I think a 22 might suit me better in terms of price and top speed. It's the only V hull I'd even consider. I'm looking forward to a ride in Joe's 22 Progression.

Joe, I might be out there Sat. will you be able to do a rain check on that ride?

[THE HOSER]

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56672&highlight=progression+22

[THE HOSER]

I know the owner pretty well and i think hes is putting a 300x
on it as we speak.

[progression22]

mike,
I will be out all day on saturday, and will be with two other 22's.
by the way i got your messages today because you left them on the house phone and i never check it. Here is my cell phone you can reach me anytime 516-369-1232

[jerry]

2 - 5LBS LOBSTERS HAHAHAHA i have killed bigger bugs in my yard than those tiny lobsters you fed me , this guy says lets go to dinner , ill pay , jerry says ok , we get there and and he orders everything on the menu for himself ( coconut shrimp , baked clams, and king crab legs ) and orders jerry a small basket of fried shrimp . jerry left there and had to stop at burger king before he got home to eat...HAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!! BEST DINNER JERRY HAD IN A LONG TIME ( I DIDNT HAVE TO PAY ) thanks big rague.................

[at100plus]

Jerry has 5 lb. bugs in his yard? Iiiiwwww!


Hosehead, I just wouldn't feel comfortable in the blue one.

[PhastBoat]

Originally posted by at100plus
Not sure. I liked the ride of the 24, but I think a 22 might suit me better in terms of price and top speed. It's the only V hull I'd even consider.

Mike, what makes you think that a 22 Progression will be any different from the 21 SuperBoat you ALREADY owned????

[at100plus]

20 mph faster, 20 years newer, 100 percent better construction, 24 degree V instead of 21, reverse chines, sharp strakes, rigid hull rides better in the rough, zero hull failures in 21 years, no wood to rot or take water balsa core and decolite stringers, true 950 pound blueprinted bottom out of the mold, vacuum bagged, bi and tri weave mat, and AME 4000 resin to name a few things.

[Trikki1010]

Mike, You are a hard man to please.

Thank god you don't treat women the same way as you do boats:eek: :eek:

[at100plus]

I didn't mean to put that mad face up there, it's really hard typing with a baby fidgeting.

[PhastBoat]

Originally posted by at100plus
20 mph faster, 20 years newer, 100 percent better construction, 24 degree V instead of 21, reverse chines, sharp strakes, rigid hull rides better in the rough, zero hull failures in 21 years, no wood to rot or take water balsa core and decolite stringers, true 950 pound blueprinted bottom out of the mold, vacuum bagged, bi and tri weave mat, and AME 4000 resin to name a few things.

What 22 Progression is going 20 MPH faster then HOSER?
I'm Sure there are a lot of Superboat owners that would disagree with your rough water and build quality statement.
Stick with a Skater, Progression has NOT reinvented the wheel.

[at100plus]

I didn't say anything about Hoser's boat. My Superboat only did 80, you asked what makes a 22 Progression different than MY 21 Superboat.

And it is the only V hull I know of that starts with a 24 degree and then moves on with it's variable deadrise bottom. It's an original design. That translates to better rough water ride.

[jerry]

phastboat , the marines called they want your boat in iraq, they need a new TANK !!! hahahahahaha

[PhastBoat]

NJ called, they need a new head *** and a new garbage barge. You and your barge fit the bill.

[jerry]

so it WAS you that the governor was poking !!!

[at100plus]

Come on Sam, don't wish anymore Democrats on this state, it's bad enough here.

[Tom D.]

You KILL me MIke!

Tom

[jerry]

at100plus , arent you from jersey ? that new baby and wife arent a cover up are they ?

[at100plus]

How dare you accuse me of being a John Kerry supporter.

[PhastBoat]

Did you start out dinner last night with your favortie soup?

[PhastBoat]

I Heard you went to a fancy place for dinner.

[jerry]

sam , i saw you and the new jersey governor working hard the other day at your office

[THE HOSER]

you guys are f*cken funny

hhhhmmmmm 20 mph faster ???

[blkmtrfan]

Now that this thread is going in a positive direction....


Mike don't you think the Tuff 21s also desirve a look? I also think the new Kryptonite 23 is really cool, I like the progressions but I don't think they are the only nice V around

[progression22]

i'm not going to put my two cents in!!!!!!!!!

[blkmtrfan]

Originally posted by progression22
i'm not going to put my two cents in!!!!!!!!!

Come on throw them pennys out :D

[THE HOSER]

hhhhhhmmmmm
20 mph faster

[progression22]

I'm not saying 20 mph faster but the quality is not the same. Progression is light years ahead of all guys in the way they build the boat. I know for a FACT if you have a superboat and a progression in claim water with the same power the progression is faster. ask you're self.... How many of the other boats fell apart?

[jerry]

hoser is calling progession out , next week, if it stops raining hosers wants a piece of progression22 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[progression22]

jerry... why are u starting s&^t ..... I am no were near ready to race anyone, besides YOU. I am still tring to get the bugs worked out. I haven't touched the boat since the motor was put on. Remember i cut off a chunk of my finger, that's why nothing been done.

[jerry]

keep whinning about that paper cut , i will send phastboat over to bitch slap you ! ahhahaahahahah

[THE HOSER]

hhhhhmmmmmmm 20 mph faster

[at100plus]

I had a 21 ft. Superboat. I thought the rough water ride was horrendous, the build quality was even worse, the WOOD that it was built with was soaked, the layup was sloppy and delaminating in some places behind the scenes, I had a cracked transom knee by the time I got done with it and it handled like crap at 80. I really wouldn't want to do 90 with that boat.

V hull and Superboat lovers have made two arguments:

1. My boat was water logged or the bottom wasn't true and straight.

2. I didn't know how to drive it.

My answer to that is, yes maybe so but Progressions can't get water logged and their hulls are blueprinted out of the mold. They have never had a reported hull failure and they have boats out there that are just a few years younger.

And if you want to attack my skills driving, well I was able to drive it up to 80 at 6400 RPM but I think it was a pain in the ass to drive and required alot of input. You never heard me complain about the driveability or rough water capability of my 21 Skater with the same motor at 6400 and 98 MPH. I gained 18 MPH just transferring my motor over to a 21 Skater from my Superboat.

Also, if you think I wasn't dialed in, I ran my Superboat for a year with a 225 Pro Max and got 72 MPH. Most 21s I know of with 2.5 power aren't doing much more than 75.

The problem with Superboats too, is they don't run well with a Sportmaster. I think that is largely because a Sportmaster runs best at 80+ speeds. Since a PM 300 powered Superboat is right on the border struggling to get 80, the Sportmaster doesn't help it. A Fleetmaster on the other hand is designed for under 80 (correct me if I'm wrong) so how can the lower unit help the boat do more than 80?

I don't see being faced with that dilemma with a 22 Progression cause the boat weigh 950 out of the mold so it won't hit that 80 MPH wall.

I haven't ridden in the 22 Progression yet but I was very impressed with the ride of the 24, and I quite sure there is a big difference with the deeper V of the Progression, the variable deadrise bottom and reverse chines.

YES MY Superboat was 20 MPH slower than a 22 Progression is rigged with a 300X.

[THE HOSER]

Mike you have to remember that your superboat was built 24 years ago, and was damaged and repaired and was not set up correctly.

[at100plus]

And yours was bought new and stored and maintained properly by you, however that just strengthens my point because the old Progressions don't have that problem, they were built to last regardless of the age and punishment. Their bottoms remain straight, they have no wood to rot, they don't have hull failures (unless you blow it over backwards and stuff the bow into the bottom of the pond of course), but that's the only one we even know of that's ever been damaged, and what was he doing? Running almost 10mph faster than you with the same power!:eek:

[jerry]

pow ,wham ,smack ,punch, , ouch !

[Liqui-Fly]

Jerry's gonna put a Cool Can is his boat and spank you all. Blaahahahahahahahahaha man he is as dumb as I thought. A FN Cool Can.......

[THE HOSER]

you have to remember two things

the blue 22 progression was a light boat
and the motor was not stock :eek:

it sounds to me that you have been talking to kevin @ progression.

and if you want to spend $55,000.00 to beat me then go for it.

[progression22]

SURE JERRY......................HAHAHAHAHAHA............MAYBE HE COULD BITCH SMACK YOU.......... iF HE DID IT, YOU MIGHT LIKE IT. I HEARD STORIES ABOUT YOU. HAHAHA

[progression22]

HOSER, THAT BLUE BOAT IS NOT A LIGHT BOAT. IT'S A STANDARD PROGRESSION. THE ONLY DIFFERECE BETWEEN THAT BOAT AND A NEW ONE IS THE FRONT SEATS. NO WEIGHT DIFFERENCE. CALL KEVIN OR GREG AND ASK THEM.

[at100plus]

Exactly, the blue boat is NOT a light boat that's a myth, the only boats that were heavier were the pre 1992 boats that were not vacuum bagged. Those boats are 200 lbs. heavier but still they were built the same way minus vacuum bagging.

Justin's 24 Progression ran the same speed as your 21 with a STOCK motor and light seats/race hatch.

I didn't talk to Kevin yet but you can get the same education I did by going to Progressionboats.com and reading the wealth of information they have about their construction. It's the best boat company website I ever saw, which correlates with the effort put into the boat construction.

Remember, not long ago, I would have told you any V hull sucked, but after reading their website thoroughly, I can now see why 'you get what you pay for'. There really is a difference. I'm not knocking your boat, cause yours has been well kept, but I wouldn't buy another one, I didn't think the rough water ride was that great and neither did my wife (and there's someone who will let you know), but she did love the Skater.

Lastly, I wouldn't spend $55k, I can get a used one (which I know will last regardless of how it was treated) for half that easily.

A 22 Progression just sold on OSO for $18 K with a 225 EFI.

I'm don't even know that I want one, but if I do go V hull, that's pretty much the only one I'd consider, and until I read about them, I wouldn't even consider a V hull.

[PhastBoat]

Bottom line.
Where are all these fast Progressions???????????
All the gathering I have been to I have never seen ANY of these 90+ MPH Progessions.
THE ONLY GUY TO COME TO THE PLATE HAS BEEN HERB IN HIS INTIMIDATOR.
I'm sure Liqui-fly would agree with me when I Invite any of these FAST Progressions to come show us that they are 20MPH faster then an equally set up Superboat at the ROMP2 Next week.

Hoser, I think your right. Sounds like he got the "sales pitch"

[at100plus]

The only person I know who has one with a 300X is Joe and he just got his motor.

Phasboat, you live on Long Island, you should know where they are.

[progression22]

iF YOU LOOK BACK HE NEVER SAID 20 MPH FASTER THEN A SUPERBOAT WITH THE SAME POWER. i RACED BIG E WITH THE YELLOW SUPERBOAT
W/ A PROMAX 300. IN CLAIM WATER I PULL AWAY FROM HIM BY ABOUT 1 MPH THEN IN THE CHOP WE ARE NECK AND NECK!!!!!!

[Liqui-Fly]

Taking interest in Mike's decision will simply end in frustration. Whatever it is he isn't going to be happy with it for longer than 6 months:) Anybody got some gold chains I can borrow? I'm going poker running up at the 1000 Islands tomorrow.

[at100plus]

I was perfectly happy with my Skater, however that boat happened to work well as a down payment on my house unfortunately.

I might get another if I can find one but since they are hard to find, and I really don't want twins, I'm exploring other options. A cabin might be good too.

Intimidator is looking good too, I haven't checked into their construction and rough water ride, but Herb is making them perform nicely and I'm impressed with that.

[PhastBoat]

TODAY

Originally posted by at100plus
I had a 21 ft. Superboat. I thought the rough water ride was horrendous,

8/13/01

Originally posted by at100plus
I just bought a 21 Superboat. I can't believe what it does in rough water for such a small boat. I'm really happy with the handling but I expected more speed.

[at100plus]

Yes, it was great in chop at 72 MPH with a 225 compared to a Hydrostream Valero YT. I was happy that I was not longer getting my ass handed to me in a ripple or a boat wake (have you ever ridden in a Valero YT?)

HOWEVER

At 80 MPH it was a handfull to drive, and 80 is too SLOW for a boat with a 300.

Move on to a 21 Skater and then you will see I was happy all along until it came time to get the mortgage and all my cash was tied up in it.

[THE HOSER]

PhastBoat

you the man

[Liqui-Fly]

It was always my understanding that true cats were the worst handling, poor accelerating, units on the water at anything other than wide open. They turn like crap and porpoise. Mike are you sure it isn't a name addiction? I'm suprised a 22 Talong doesn't tickle your fancy more. The center pod eliminates the poor handling characteristics of a cat.

[Liqui-Fly]

They are way better looking.

[PhastBoat]

name addiction;)

[at100plus]

Happy is happy. I was happy with my Skater.

I rode in Ing's 22 Talon, it was calm that day, but the boat was slower, had less interior room, a heavier ride. Tim Hunter (thunter) will tell you since he has owned both boats, that the Skater is a much much better rough water ride than the Talon 22.

That Skater simply never hit hard.

Also Sam, keep in mind, I wrote that like the day I got my Superboat. I didn't have a chance to see how hard it can hit, I was just happy that I could get across Lake Hopatcong at over 30 MPH (since I couldn't with my Hydrostream). After some seat time, my opinion on the ride in that boat changed.

With the 300, my Superboat porpoised alot too, at every speed over 35 unless it was choppy.

Name addiction to what name?

[Liqui-Fly]

I guess we all just worry that you will abandon us as easily as you do your boats time and time again. There simply is no commitment there.

[at100plus]

Give me a break.

I had my HST until it wrecked. I loved that boat.

I had my Valero for 3 years till I got married and needed a boat that wouldn't get our asses kicked.

I made the mistake of buying an old Superboat in a hurry. I tried to make it as fast as my Hydrostream and it didn't work. Then started trying to go in bigger waters with it, and learned that it really wasn't all that great at high speeds in rough water as I thought it would be.

Then I got a 21 Skater put the same motor from the Superboat on it. Increased my top speed by 18 MPH and was able to go anywhere I wanted to inland and cruise at 70 MPH comfortably and fuel efficiently. I was also very impressed with the build quality, it was the first boat I ever owned that I didn't fear I would bust apart like I did with my HST.

Then we had a baby, and bought a house, and as much as I hated to do it, that boat had to go in favor of investing $30k in a house.

Meantime I spent $13k on a very nice Hydrostream that I had hoped would be better than having no boat.

Now I own a house, have equity and can again afford to own a good boat.

What's it going to be?

I don't know yet.

[Liqui-Fly]

Mike we got you on the ropes hehehehehe...Oh yeah are you coming up next week?

[at100plus]

I'd like to but I really can't go away right now. This is not my year for boating.

[Liqui-Fly]

That's ok...we were looking forward to nice weather...not Mongiovi weahter anyway.:p

[progression22]

stop hating on the progression. One question for everybody talking s
who has been in one?

[THE HOSER]

you will need this for that progression of yours

[Liqui-Fly]

Who has ever seen one? If it was for "hearing" the owners all the time I would just figure they were a red herring.

[progression22]

If the price of the boat didn't matter which boat would you want? A friend of mine just got a 1992 22 progression and after 2 rides on it, he selling the 1996 21 superboat.

[THE HOSER]

i really do like your boat
but to sell mine for yours i wouldnt do.

[Liqui-Fly]

Hoser you obviously have not read their web page. They say they are the World's best. Not only that but most innovative too. Surely you would be a fool not to trade.

[progression22]

i wanted to get superboat before i got mine. I'm not bashing superboat or any other boat but all i'm saying the quality not the same

[Liqui-Fly]

And you would know!!. You and Cool Can Jerry.

[at100plus]

http://www.progressionboats.com/home/construction.html

See for yourself. You can't just peruse this page, you have to really read it and click on every link. I returned several times and found new information that I didn't notice each time.

Send me the link so I can read up about the Superboat construction.

Thanks.

Mike

[at100plus]

PS, I never said anything bad about your Superboat Hoser. Yours runs very respectably.

I'm saying mine sucked and I'm saying that a Progression will stand the test of time much better than my Superboat did because of the materials and process used to build it. How can you have waterlogged rotten wood when you don't have wood?

[THE HOSER]

http://www.superboatonline.com/history.html


just remember 32 years

[at100plus]

The Governor thinks Jerry has a cool can.

[Liqui-Fly]

Mike it's a boat...not an airplane or a stealth bomber. I don't care what the web page says. All this and that and the other thing they say they do obviously isn't being done properly. If all of their claims were true, their boats would be considerably lighter. I mean they actually point out "the flat transom design". Are you kidding me. Look at the complete lack of shape of this transom. Yeah we came up with that. I don't see anything that speaks of great construction. As for there statement....all Progression are composit boats...I got news for them...any boat that consists of anything other than glass and resin is technically a composit boat.

[Liqui-Fly]

Where do you get the idea that the boats are vacuum bagged? I see the panels they buy from another company are vacuum bagged but those are simply Balteck panels. Probably used for bulkheads and such. No where in there does it say the core is vacuum bagged. Even if it was it doesn't mean much.

[progression22]

go watch kevin build a boat, he vaccuum bags the core

[Liqui-Fly]

All Progression boats are 100% balsa cored, blueprinted out of the molds, and race ready. While other manufacturers will try to impress you with fancy paint, we back up our claims in writing.

And something you stole from in an earlier response Mike;) I like how they cover their lacking in gel coat skills as hype. We just do the same old crappy stuff because we really know what to impress you. Hahahahahahaha

[THE HOSER]

ok lets stop the bull ****

progressions happen to be very good boats and you cant say any bad about them.

[Liqui-Fly]

You could say they were overbuilt and clearly over priced. What benefit are the boats getting from the exhaustive process?

They are very nice.

[jerry]

fly , shut up .

[Liqui-Fly]

Will do Cool Can Jerry. Jerry don't forget the ice or else you will be down on power. Hate to hear Phastboat walked on ya. Finish up whatever heads you are cobbing up today and enjoy the weekend.

[blkmtrfan]

Mike I still think you shold look at the Tuffs, they are build very well also :D

[at100plus]

That link didn't work for me Hoser.

Dave 950 out of the mold and 1250 rigged minus power isn't light for that size boat??? It's a pretty big boat. My 18' Hydrostream weighs 1600 fully rigged with the motor and no gearcase.

They are expensive, if you buy a used one, you know that you are getting an overbuilt boat that will last and hold it's value.

Don't peruse, read the whole website go watch the build process then comment.

[Liqui-Fly]

That's what they say it weighs...ask Prog 22 what his actually weighed at the scales.

[Liqui-Fly]

I've read it time and time again yet fail to see why they think they have something so special. I have also used the materials they brag about...it's all pretty standard stuff. Just because vacuum bagging is new it doesn't necessarliy mean that it is the latest and greatest and only way. Weight savings will mostly be influenced by how good or bad the boat was laminated the onld way. Vacuum bagging a 36 foot boat will have a significant difference on the weight saved as compared to a 21 foot boat. All I am saying is there web page is all hype. If it isn't faster, handle better, or have a much better finish then it simply isn't worth it.

[Scream And Fly]

Originally posted by Liqui-Fly
All I am saying is there web page is all hype.

That could not be farther from the truth. Fact is, Progression is the only boat company that will detail exactly how their boats are constructed. There is a reason for that. Maybe you should ask yourself why other boat companies do not.

I doubt you have used all of the materials they put into their boats. That would get very expensive fast. I've been to several boat factories, including Superboat and Progression. There's a lot more to boat construction and design than just a pad and V-angle.

Vacuum-bagging saves about 200 lb. on a Progression 24LD as opposed to standard layup. Resin is very heavy.

That is significant if you ask me.


Greg

[Liqui-Fly]

I think guys that think Baltex panels are something special are funny. As well as AME 4000 resin. The day one of them comes even close to the guys we always see out proving it....I'll maybe consider.

Greg are you insinuating that I cannot afford the materials that Progression puts in their boats? That's absurd. This BS has been going on for about 3 years now and Jerry is Progression's only flag waver and we all know how that thing runs.

Doesn't matter...the CT River Run is the place this year...a chance for everyone to watch me tear the red panels off the side of that 22.:D

[Scream And Fly]

David, I am in no way making any assumption about your financial ability. If it sounded that way, I apologize.

But you said Progression boats are over priced. Progression boats cost what they do because of the materials and process that go into their construction. Any boat would cost that much with those materials and contruction process. So, if you think Progression boats are overpriced, I just don't think you used the materials they use - or you would not think what you do.

Wait, did that sound right?:D

Greg

[Liqui-Fly]

But...just cause you can build a boat out of gold...that doesn't necessarily make it a better boat.

Does that make sense?

[Scream And Fly]

Everyone has different feelings on that, and I don't think there is any right or wrong way to go. It's all up to the consumer. You get what you pay for. For somebody that wants to pay extra for a boat that is bulletproof, then it makes sense. For the weekend cruiser that wants to just take it easy, another option might be better.

It's all a matter of preference.

Greg

[Liqui-Fly]

If you leave your boat in the water and let it get wet ect ect, the methods Progression uses are very beneficial. I guess one souldn't consider only the type of boating they do and those around them when judging what is necessary.

[Scream And Fly]

You see? Agreeing is not that hard :D :D

Greg

[SUPERBASH]

Good thread guys.... Greg & Fly just summed it up. I like Progression's & own a new 24SUPERBOAT I had JC build. SB is a good deal for the dollar, & you have a choice. For extra $ JC will build you a lightweight layup using the newer materials which I believe would get you closer to the Progression building standards.

[jerry]

hey flydick , find another 24 ft boat with a 300 that will run with me . what a thickheaded a -hole . find a superboat that was built with ame4000 or balsa .

[PhastBoat]

Originally posted by jerry
hey flydick , find another 24 ft boat with a 300 that will run with me . what a thickheaded a -hole . find a superboat that was built with ame4000 or balsa .

And wait until he installs his cool can!!!!!!!

[PhastBoat]

.

[jerry]

is that the pic from your family picnic ?

[activator racing]

i need some outboard bay sissy to chew up.any takers

[Scream And Fly]

Come guys, how old are we now? Please keep this thread civil and watch the language.

Greg

[at100plus]

Originally posted by jerry
hey flydick , find another 24 ft boat with a 300 that will run with me . what a thickheaded a -hole . find a superboat that was built with ame4000 or balsa .

What 24 ft. boat even has single outboard? The 24 Progression is a BIG boat to be doing just a hair under 80 with a SINGLE NON X 300

[at100plus]

In the year 2004, this is all Superboat tells me on their website regarding their construction:
_________________________________

CONSTRUCTION METHODS: All colors are molded in - not painted on. The basic layers of mat and roving are hand laid in a one nonstop process. This way they cure as one piece, not many layers. Stringers are bedded to the hull before being glassed over. This prevents stringer to hull failure after years of hard use. All bottom strakes are filled and glassed over allowing no possibility of cracking. Bulkheads and stringers are of plywood or the new sophisticated lightweight materials, and the hull and deck are glassed together at the bump rail and all longitudinal bulkheads.

_________________________________________

What kind of plywood? (OR)??? What kind of "New sophisticated lightweight materials?" These are stringers we are talking about, they are pretty important, what are they using and how would I know what the boat has if I'm buying it used?

[Scream And Fly]

Superboat currently uses construction-grade plywood (not marine-grade) and sawdust for resin filler. You read right - sawdust. That's a fact. I suppose they will use other materials of you specify.

Greg

[at100plus]

I think they used wet sawdust in my Superboat:rolleyes:

[at100plus]

So what does Intimidator and Tuff use to build their boats?

[Scream And Fly]

From what I have seen, the Tuff 21s are very well made boats. Intimidator's quality is very good as well. You should talk to Herb about their construction though - he can provide the details.

Greg

[SUPERBASH]

Originally posted by at100plus
I think they used wet sawdust in my Superboat:rolleyes:
No...You must of bought a used water logged wet hull.

[at100plus]

Precisely, thanks for helping make my point - how can you buy a water logged used hull when you buy a boat that has no wood?

[at100plus]

How do other companies put thier boats together?

Where the deck and hull meet at the rub rail, we laminate bi-directional fiberglass to create a continuous bond around the entire boat. When this laminate cures, these two parts now become one, creating a stronger boat

[SUPERBASH]

Hey Mike. I caught a glimpse of you last week. You were coming in as I was going out. I hate wood. I'm all for the better. I"ll never buy anything "used" again for as long or short as I live. I take care of my stuff. Like I said, there are different layups with SB with reflecting costs so someone like me can still buy "new". (previously had a new 21CC and before that a "wet" 16 ). FX10 will be along shortly to answer SB tech questions. What ever you guys say, the finish on Johns boats are A+, and my old sawdust plywood barge 24 will run 2-3 footers without backing down and effortlessly. Not that anyone gives an f, I'm slapping on an X next week. See you guys next WED?

*Oh...here's a guy in Maylands 24 with twin 200's. Think he running only 75?

[at100plus]

Yes

There was a 24 with twin 200s at the Conn. River Run 3 years ago who said he was only running 76 MPH. He was porpoising alot too.

[at100plus]

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=356379

[SUPERBASH]

Looks great even for a slug!

[at100plus]

that was on the up beat from porpoising

[SUPERBASH]

Nothing outporpoised this baby!

[FX10 Superboats]

Alright Bash, I'm here. I got your invite on OSO.
First............. Sawdust. Sawdust ???? Yes we use sawdust. It's used as a filler, mixed with resin. Some companies use cabosil and resin, but sawdust and resin is much stronger. It's mixed with resin to make a paste. We use it to fill the strakes and bed the stringers. As do many other boat manufacturers.
True, Progressions come with blueprinter bottoms, use AME 4000 Vinylester resin and Baltec panels instead of plywood. They also get a premium price for their product. And I will admit, they make a quality product. This coming from a guy that builds Superboats.
We also use Vinylester resin in all our layups. If you want Baltec panels instead of plywood, you got it. Blueprinted bottom (my specialty), no problem. If you want a light layup using divinylcell coring in the sides and Balsa core in the bottom, we will also do that. After all is said and done, it will cost as much as a Progression. Alot of time and money goes into doing all these extra processes. And most people aren't willing to pay for it.
I started with Superboat in 1979, worked with Jeff and Bob for a few years, then went into business for myself repairing boats. I just started working for John again in January, he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. As far as quality workmanship. Anyone is welcome to come down and see the glasswork and how the boats are made.

Rick

[at100plus]

Thanks. Well said.

[FX10 Superboats]

Anytime

[SUPERBASH]

COOL.

[jerry]

fx10 , jerry hopes you can improve the quality of johns boats . the last few years have been down hill . good luck

[Scream And Fly]

Alot of time and money goes into doing all these extra processes. And most people aren't willing to pay for it.

Rick, you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Your post was well said.

Greg

[at100plus]

I guess being a boat builder could drive you to drink:D

[SUPERBASH]

30Y2K

[SUPERBASH]

SB

[Dave S]

I like my 24 Superboat.:) It is a 1974 that I have had from 1981. It has it's problems, because someone put in 2 deck hatches. The balsa core in the deck got wet and loose from the glass. It was a jet boat and had 8 holes in the transom plus the big jet holes in the back and bottom. What a mess people can make when they drill holes. :eek: The boat has many spider crack from doing 75 mph with the jet. I await the snickers.:cool: Like me the boat is old and tired but still going.:D I have allways liked the ride of this great boat. But last week I was out in the bay in big water and have to say it has it's limits. The swells were 5 feet tall and 10 feet spaced, and I didn't want to hurt my old boat. ;) So I took it easy and babyed the old girl. All the boats on this thread have there limits so have a nice day.;)

[bulldogdaddy]

fx10,wish i would have heard the idea of the sawdust,after spending 60 bucks for westmarine filler,lol.
btw you said it all about cost.i have a great respect for boatbuilders and their prices after the project i took on:eek:

[at100plus]

http://www.skaterpowerboats.com/images/skater_main_r1_c1.gif

[Dutch]

Mike,
you did the same **** I did. You sold the boat
that took forever and endless money to get
the way you wanted it. And now you want
another, and it is harder to find and will cost
you way more than you sold your old one for.
take care,
Matt

[at100plus]

Yep. But I'm still better off owning a house.

[SUPERBASH]

& one of these.

[THE HOSER]

so mike no more progression?

[blkmtrfan]

Superbash, nice looking boat :cool: , how fast?

[SUPERBASH]

THx BLKMTRMAN...Top speed 250EFI 71.0gps...She gets her X tomorrow from EastCoastMarine....hoping for 76-77gps?( Did you see this vid?)

http://photos.imageevent.com/superbash/ruff24/RUFFRIDE.AVI

[blkmtrfan]

Cool video :cool:

Keep us posted on how she runs with the x

[at100plus]

Ummmm NO. But they are built just as well as a SKater. They are nice, but if I'm going to spend $40 k+, it's going to be a Skater.

Besides, if I get a Progression I wouldn't be able to pass you as quickly as I can with a Skater.

Helmut almost killed us in Joe's Progression.:D

[PARKER RABE]

WHAT KIND OF BOAT IS THAT ONE WITH THE BLUE STRIPES????? , MAN THAT THING IS PRETTY , I SAW A PIC OF IT WITH A 300 ON IT AIRED OUT , AND IT LOOKED GREAT , I WANT TO GET OUT OF MY MIRAGE SOON AND INTO SOMETHING LIKE THAT , I FELL IN LOVE WITH THAT BOAT !:)

[SUPERBASH]

BLKMTRFAN...will do.

@100PLUS...did you catch this.
http://photos.imageevent.com/superbash/ruff24/2SKATERS.AVI

[PARKER RABE]

FOUND IT , ITS THE HOSERS BOAT , MAN THAT THING IT BEAUTIFUL , HOW FAST DOES THAT BOAT RUN ANYBODY KNOW?
THEY SAID ON THE SUPERBOATS WEB SITE , THEY HAD ONE RUNNING OVER 100 IS THAT TRUE , IS HIS BOAT AN INTIMINDATOR ?

[jerry]

parker , hosers boat runs high in the 70s , very clean .

[PARKER RABE]

HMMMM I WAS ON THAT SUPERBOAT WEB SITE AND THEY SAID , THEY HAD ONE RUNNING 100N IS THAT TRUE ?

[at100plus]

That was a 28 with 300s right? Thanks for the video.

[jerry]

yea , there are a few 21-22 v bottoms here running in the 100 range ( not phastboat )

[PARKER RABE]

mabye it was , im really intrested in geeting something like a super boat , but there is so many of those boats to choose from it makes it all confusing , is an initimadator, a superboat , arnt they all a pop off of a rallysport , ???or a shadow???? whats that redline boat ??? if i was to buy one , i dont know which one to get ? they make so many like the same ?:confused: :confused: :confused:
which is the best set up , 300 or a 280 low 70s suck is it possible to get one to run 85? :) i know theres alot of them up in n.y. , down here u see old rallysports all over , but know superboats !
is the superboat the best one to get? they look great !

thanks for the info
parker

[PARKER RABE]

i just thought of a nother one ,, tuff 21 , and i think librator is making one WILDMAN was building one that looked just like a21 rallysport , see what i mean about confusing !

[Scream And Fly]

The Intimidator is made from the original Shadow 21 molds. It's not a splash. :)


Greg

[jerry]

anyone going out tues night , last night before it rains forever ....

[Trikki1010]

Hey Cool Can,

I went out tonight, until the hail chased us off the lake.

Then we parked at the local drinking hole and sat it out.;)

But, #3 loves ya anyway:eek: :eek: :D

[THE HOSER]

yes thats my boat. dont let jerry f*ck with you

with a stock 200 the boat will do 72mph
with a mod vp it did 80 mph
with the v-8 it ran 88 mph
and with the 300x so far it ran 93.3

[progression22]

i can't open the video,
hoser,
that's moving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and jerry wishes his boat is that fast!!

[blkmtrfan]

Originally posted by at100plus
Helmut almost killed us in Joe's Progression.:D

Mike could you tell us more about that ride :D

Parker, the condensed version: (hopefully mostly correct)

George Linder originally made the Challenger 21 in like 76-77, the boat was awsome, the company did not do as well. George went on to form Shadow with Rich Luhrs. Challenger molds went to Superboat (New York), Rally sport (Flordia) and Scorpion (Canada). Linder liscensed his design to Hammond who called his a Hammond Challenger and then a redesign Challenger II, that design (the II) somehow (bought or splashed) went to Stryker (in Texas I think). Velocily 22 is a very similar boat, but the bottom is quite different (flat pad) and the boat is bigger. Activator started making a 22' very similar in design in the 80's. Progression started with a 24' similar in concept but a totally new design (variable deadrise, much deeper hull) their 22 came later. As Greg said, the Intimidator comes form a slightly modified Shadow mold. The Tuff 21 is a updated redesign.

Did I miss anyone? If so I appoligize as it was all typed from memory (not as relaible as it used to be ;) )

[Chummy]

LOL GREAT SUMMARY:D

[RotorHead]

Originally posted by at100plus
So what does Intimidator and Tuff use to build their boats?

Not a SALES PITCH. Just FYI.

bagged 5/8" premium balsa on running surface, Stitched 90* and 45* bi-axial glass, strategically placed with AME 5000 vinylester resin.

[RotorHead]

3/8" deck and hull.

[RotorHead]

Baltic Burch hardwood transom, can not rot even if it got wet.

[RotorHead]

Blue printed hull, 7.5” pad, 3 options of notch, rounded chines.

Ps, I apologies for the poor quality of the scanned photos.

[RotorHead]

[ which is the best set up , 300 or a 280 low 70s suck is it possible to get one to run 85? :) i know theres alot of them up in n.y. , down here u see old rallysports all over , but know superboats !
is the superboat the best one to get? they look great !

thanks for the info
parker [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh and by the way the 225H.O. Rude will put you in that 85 range for a very budget conscious price.

[blkmtrfan]

Great info Rotorhead, I thought the Tuffs were built well ;)

[at100plus]

I liked my ride with Cool Can better:)

[Liqui-Fly]

Cool Can...."All I need is my Cool Can and same belt sanded rods and I will be good to go" said Jerry.

[jerry]

dickhead , you going ot the romp ?

[PhastBoat]

Originally posted by jerry
dickhead , you going ot the romp ?

HE IS THE KING OF THE RUMP.

[PhastBoat]

http://www.foodlinkny.org/Graphics/CoolCan_logos.gif

[at100plus]

Yup!

[RotorHead]

Sorry, I have to ask. Whats a Cool Can????

[Trikki1010]

It's what makes Cool Can Jerry's boat wicked fast :eek:

Something about a certain governor under the hood;)

[at100plus]

McGreevey? Under the hood or in the rear?

[Liqui-Fly]

In the process showed everyone how inept he is....and well he ended up with a new nickname.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=65763

[RotorHead]

Got ya' Thanks. LMAO :p :p :p

[PARKER RABE]

HOSER - can u post some pics of your boat so i can get a better look at one with a 300 , i think thats the set up i would like to have

thanks parker :)

[jerry]

hey fly , jerry might come to the romp to see you New York style ......

[THE HOSER]

.

[THE HOSER]

..

[THE HOSER]

.

[progression22]

24 skater w/300x " red & white " and he was looking hoser

[THE HOSER]

whats up with that?

[Liqui-Fly]

Sure Jerry...you'll be there:rolleyes:

[jerry]

jerrys gonna come up there NEW YORK style ,to see you .

[progression22]

he said, he heard you have a fast v-bottom boat and he wanted a piece

[Spd-Kilz]

Hoser, that little pink piece on your motor has to change colours. Looks gayboyish. :( :rolleyes: Paint it the same blue as the boat or something.:)

[Scream And Fly]

Chris, that's a Mayfair (Marine Machine) steering ram. Good stuff :)

Greg

[Spd-Kilz]

Originally posted by Scream And Fly
Chris, that's a Mayfair (Marine Machine) steering ram. Good stuff :)

Greg

Hey Greg, I definatly know its good stuff, its just the colour the colour of that part, if its a sticker I'd just peel it off. Don't worry not bashin the product one bit, just the advertising and colour on a beautiful boat:)

[Scream And Fly]

I knew you were jokin'. But - the pink did get your attention, didn't it? That's the point of good advertising :)

Greg

[Spd-Kilz]

Smart a$$. It did catch my attention, but in a bad way. I wouldn't advertise that on my boat if it came that way. :) I say using their product is enough advertising for me, because if the real boat guys recognize the product without the label, then thats a good thing.

[Liqui-Fly]

What's New York Style....by bus???

[stokernick]

nah,he`s taking a taxi!!

[jerry]

NEW YORK STYLE , jerry drives up there with his boat in tow. jerry finds you , gets out of his truck , knocks your teeth down your throat , gets back in his truck , drives home , jerry tells everyone what a great time he had at the romp !!!

[progression22]

JERRY,
I AM TALKING WITH RICHY ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW AND HE TELLING ME THAT YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FLEETMASTER AND SPORTMASTER BECAUSE YOUR BOAT IS WAY TOO SLOW.. REMEMBER LET HIM KNOW YOU KNOW ABOUT SOUNDFACTORY!!!!

[Liqui-Fly]

That's pretty funny Jerry you should try that. Maybe I will be able to borrow some ice out of your cool can for my busted teeth. Then again maybe before you get back in your truck a bunch of back asswards rednecks will have some fun replacing your teeth with Aunt Millies.

Hey Jerry don't feel bad about me hurting your feelings over and over again. It's not like your couintless nonsense didn't put you there.

[Trikki1010]

Originally posted by Liqui-Fly
Then again maybe before you get back in your truck a bunch of back asswards rednecks will have some fun replacing your teeth with Aunt Millies.

Ya mean that's not what the Romp is all about :eek:

And Jerry, If we were REALLY rednecks, you'd only have to knock out "A" TOOTH;) ;)

[Liqui-Fly]

He'll never get my third one...it's in my pocket. I dun uz that one to dig out fish eyes and to scratch up bad ass city boyz.

[Trikki1010]

Trikki thinks Jerry's been watching "Goodfellas" too many times. Maybe Jerry should watch "Deliverance" before coming upstate:eek: :eek: ;)

[jerry]

HAHAHAHAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WILL TAKE A FEW OF YOU REDNECKS TO BEAT UP ON JERRY , BUT I WILL BRING MY DOG !!!

[PhastBoat]

:eek:

[Liqui-Fly]

Yeah it will be a few cause us up-state Rednecks ain't used to waiting in line. I imagine after Jerry gets his ass whooped by every boat there he's gonna be good and ready to fight.

[blkmtrfan]

:D :D

I just love your movie poster chops, thanks for the laugh

:D :D

[jerry]

Deliverance", jerry knew you rednecks were into smokin the bone!

[Trikki1010]

Just refreshing one's memory,

I believe the hillbillies were the "Givers" and Cool Can Bobby (Ned Beatty) was the reciever:eek: :eek: ;)

Fortunately, "Smoking the bone", has a different connotation upstate than the liberal long island approach:D

[dan1731]

ur doing alot of talking for me

[at100plus]

Is that the 24 w/ single 300X? How does it run?

[dan1731]

runs good, 85 so far with alot left. I need to try out differnt props. anyone have a 22 or 24 chopper?

[ghost28]

i will look i think i have both choppers..may not be in the best shape but they will run...do they need fat shafts..

[at100plus]

Try a Performance Propellers 4 blade Semi Cleaver or a Lightning ET.

[RotorHead]

Dan I assume that’s a new 300x and it came with 1.62 gears, hence your request about the low pitched prop’s. I agree with the ET, I just swapped out my gears for 1.75s and went from a 24p to 28p Trophy. Huge difference with the extra rake angle. I doubt the Trophy is the way to go for a cat but the small diameter and high efficiency and low cost relative to an ET, it might be fun to try. I have a small shaft 24p and 26p choppers, as well as the 24 (both inserts) Tropy.

By the way... Very nice lookin' ride. :cool: :cool: :cool:

[dan1731]

rotor head im actualy runing a trophy rite now but i need a larger diamiter prop

[progression22]

I have a 25 and 26 trophy you could try!!!!

[Liqui-Fly]

Hydromoitve has quite an array of large diameter 4 blade wheels..through, over, and over/through hub set ups. Call them and see if they'll work with you...cool set up.

www.hydromotive.com

[progression22]

I use to run the hydromotive and switch to the trophy. The trophy was alot faster for me about 5 mph

[Liqui-Fly]

A trophy will probably be way better on a CAT running a transom height probably 3" higher on the transom than your deep-V bottom:rolleyes:

[progression22]

i guess i am really not a fan of hydromotive

[Liqui-Fly]

They have a lot to work with and know their wheels. His set up is so unique it's going to take a lot of experimenting.

You probably ran a semi clever style wheel on your boat and that isdefinitely the wrong prop for you. I wouldn't dismiss them all together.

[at100plus]

I think the 24 with a single should be similar to a 21, except - a true lab cleaver will work well on a 21 with a 300 while I don't think it would on a 24 with a 300X, the power to weight ratio isn't right for a cleaver.

He'd probably be best with a round ear or a semi cleaver. I bet the Performance Propellers 4 blade in the right pitch would be the ticket. It worked very well for me and Mack as an all around performer. Also Spinelli DR -4 might be a good runner, but mine gave a more stern lift and bow low attitude, less top end but better acceleration.

[beer30]

Dan1731, what kind of rpm's are you turning with that 300 and prop are you running now. Chuck.