fuel pump dies and strands boater in 110 degree heat...

[vishus]

How reliable are the BOSCH units in the HP2.5 series? I have lost two now. Both locked up solid, one was noisy and I was keeping my eye on it. I had just let off after a full throttle pass, and it died. The second unit expired this past weekend, I had just completed a 60 mile run from Laughlin to Havasu. We had stopped and floated a few times, no high speeds, just 3-4000rpm cruising. Just got on the main body of water and was watching the BIG CATS and Vs playing in the rough stuff, got the boat on plane, ran about 100yds and promptly ran out of gas (or so I thought...), put five gallons premix in and the pump would not turn on. Lifted the rear cowl and the pump is hotter than hell. I try to tap on it and even wet it down with some water, but to no avail. Stranded me on Havasu for two hours....

I am running a stock 2.5EFI on a Rapidcraft Riot. The fuel tank sits in the center sponson, and is the lowest thing in the boat. The pump is mounted to the transom and sits about even with the top of the tank.

I have the fuel system routing as such:
1) fuel hose from tank to Bosch pump
2) fuel hose from pump to water/fuel seperator
3) fuel hose from seperator to EFI rail
4) return fuel hose to return on tank

The fuel pump is wired to a seperate on/off switch, and is wired through my kill switch (plan to take it to IHBA Drags someday)...

WHAT HAPPENED?

1) did I run out of gas and the Bosch was hot from 3-4 hours of continuous use and "burnt/locked" up with no fuel to cool it?

2) did the pump die because I am pushing fuel into the seperator?

3)should I rig the seperator between the tank and the pump?
a) would I need to install a squeeze ball to pressurize the fuel prior to the pump in that setup?

thx.sid

[Hooty]

Ya really need a filter up stream of the pump. Any kind of trash that hits the pump is gonna cause problems. I use one of those see-through inline filters and change it out ever six months or so.

c/6
Hooty

[Tony Brucato]

You're right Hooty. Even alittle bit of dirt will lockup a Bosch pump.

I run a filter before and after the pump. One to save the pump, and one after to save the injectors.

[Raceman]

I only run 1 filter in all my stuff, but ALWAYS ahead of the pump. Although I've never experienced it, I've heard several people say that excessive tightness in the Bosche mounting strap will cause failure also.

[TB21]

vishus ,
I had the same thing happen , new bosch hipo pump with less than 2 hours took a dump and left me in a bad situation , I had a good filter between tank and pump and it was not mounted to tight. I know guys that have em that are 3 years old and still work great . I just hope my new one lasts long enough to justify the cost , worst thing is there is no warranty on em :confused: Good luck TB

[stvhelm]

My last bosch pump was more than five years old. and it got used alot. I only changed it cause it looked like hell and pressure wasnt keeping up with the Brucato pcu when I turn the steam wheel up. I also have it mounted on rubber mounts to limit vibration

[vishus]

thanks guys, I am using the rubber mount that Tony sells, I will install an inline filter prior to the pump.

Where do all of you have your water seperator? is it after the pump/prior to the injectors (like mine)? or is it between the tank and the pump?

The first two pumps to go bad were both used (less than $35 each, so I guess I can't complain too much). I am going to go new on the next one.

Is their any issue with going with the "984" DRAG Bosch and still running the GOLD regulator? I am thinking about future upgrades to a Brucato PCU and porting and would need the higher pressure then, so why not get the "984" now (only $20 more) than the "957"...


I have a couple of sources for NEW Bosch pumps:

"i have the 0580254984 and it is 165.00.i also have a 0580254957 and it is
144.00.shipping will be 5.00 and i will give a 1 year warranty."

second place wants $160.00 for the pump and $9.00 shipping also with a 1 year warranty.

TONY BRUCATO, do you warranty your pumps? Your price is about the same, and I would rather buy from a board member if possible...


another thought, what guage wiring do you run on your pumps? I am running 12 guage, could that be restricting the pump causing it to overheat?




sid

[mrcrsr]

the fuel pump needs to be mounted at a point equal to or below the fuel tank so fuel gravity feeds to it- it is not designed to suck fuel from the tank- also you should use some kind of filter before the pump- i always used an automotive stainless steel efi filter that had a barb on either end that was part of the filter and used the same fuel pump for several years- incidently that same fuel filter is on my 650 hp blown street strip camaro and i've never had any fuel starvation issues good luck

[stvhelm]

I dont think the water seperator was designed to be pressureized. Here's how I got mine routed...Gas tank - water seperator - fuel pump - filter - motor - then return to gas tank. In that order and the pump is mounted even with bottom of tank.

[Techno]

Originally posted by mrcrsr
the fuel pump needs to be mounted at a point equal to or below the fuel tank so fuel gravity feeds to it- it is not designed to suck fuel from the tank-

I don't think this is true. Just a few assumptions. Does it make sense?
If one boat has a 5" high belly tank and another has a 16" high square tank then the tall tanks pump is still pulling fuel up 15-17". So the 5" tall tank could still mount the pump 17" above the tank and it would be just like the other tank in suction length.
Your not supposed to run fuel systems in boats that can siphon fuel out of the tank for a safety reason. Why would they require a pump that violated this?
Even this gravity fed pump/tank configuration is still a slow siphon system and the pump would still have to pull fuel to start it and the siphon isn't anywhere near the pumps capacity of fuel flow. The inlets are also pretty small.
Now I don't know what the suction limit is on these pumps but it must have some capacity. Oddly I haven't seen anything in the mercury manual of just where the pump should be. You think they would cover this if it was that important.

On the other note. My first pump died so I tore it apart, gotta see whats inside. The pump itself is like 2 half dollers stacked, thats its size! The rest is the motor. The pump could pass small dirt but the motor probably can't tolerate it. On mine the copper contacts-commutator, was what failed. Covered with black stuff that was either off the brushes or something from the fuel. This made the small copper plates just a conductive cylinder for the brushes. I think something dissolved the brushes slightly over time and transfered the carbon to the commutator in a nice even layer.

vishus "Lifted the rear cowl and the pump is hotter than hell." I can think of only 3 things to make the pump hotter than hell.
[list=1]
The pump shorted out internally like mine did with carbon tracking of the commutator.
The pump itself jammed so the motor couldn't turn, doubt that.
The pump wasn't sucking fuel anymore. They are fuel cooled. Doubt that. Unless your fuel line is totaly shot. Kinked or collapsed.
[/list=1]

I doubt wire gauge was the cause of overheating but may have caused the failure?. Draws too many amps and there it goes. Short wiring run or all the way to dash and back? If to dash the switch could be a choke point, they are also rated for amps.

[Tony Brucato]

Originally posted by vishus

I have a couple of sources for NEW Bosch pumps:

"i have the 0580254984 and it is 165.00.i also have a 0580254957 and it is
144.00.shipping will be 5.00 and i will give a 1 year warranty."

second place wants $160.00 for the pump and $9.00 shipping also with a 1 year warranty.

TONY BRUCATO, do you warranty your pumps? Your price is about the same, and I would rather buy from a board member if possible...



sid

Vishus,

The pumps that I carry are brand new Bosch pumps, straight from Germany. I have to buy them by the case load to get the price that I do. There is no warranty on these pumps.

Ask if these other pumps are brand new or "reconditioned". I can get "reconditioned pumps with a warranty too, but I don't want to be involved with used pumps.

BTW, when you replace your pump you should examine your fuel line and filter coming from the tank to the pump. There's a good chance that a foreign object jammed your failed pump. Common contamination is from deteriorating fuel hose. When you hook up your new pump it could repeat the failure, that's why they're not warranted.

[vishus]

Thanks Tony, your always straight up in dealing. The pumps are "NEW" according to the dealer.

"Mr. Fuel Pump Inc.

You have questions and needs, I got answers and fuel pumps.

This is a brand NEW Bosch Fuel Pump.

Bosch Number 580-254-984.
This fuel pump brings 150-170 PSI, and 55 GPH.
61 mm Diameter
12 mm Inlet Hose fitting
12 mm Outler Female Bar Threaded (Made for Pressure applications).
Support up to 550HP (Horse Power)
The fuel pump that every one is using for there hot-rodders and street racing cars, Bosch inline fuel pumps. I have sold them for all types of rigged and upgraded system. I ahve sold to poeple that have changed fuel injectors, pistons, intakes NOS, the whole nine yards and I have never gotten a return from one costumer, check my feedback. These fuel pumps retail easily 285.00 USD. Use the buy it now and receive free shipping. Free shipping for domestic only.
Don't go with the cheaper Walbro inline, they cost less for a reason."

dealer has a good reputation.... but so do you!


I will NOT buy/install a pump until I am certain everything is set. I have all NEW hoses, and they were on this pump, I had drained the tank and was sure that there was no crap in it. I am going to put the water/fuel seperator inbetween the tank/pump, and then run a high flow filter inbetween the pump and injectors... I am also going to step up the guage on the wiring to the pump and ensure that everything is 100% before I put the pump back.

thx.sid

[Tony Brucato]

Originally posted by vishus
second place wants $160.00 for the pump and $9.00 shipping also with a 1 year warranty.

TONY BRUCATO, do you warranty your pumps? Your price is about the same, and I would rather buy from a board member if possible...




sid

Sid, Is this the pump on Ebay? Item number: 7905642539

I think you are mistaken about the price. It looks likes the starting bid is $160,but the buy-it-now price is $180.

Please check the Mercury price for this pump and they offer no warranty either. MY $165 is a very fair price.

[mrcrsr]

think about this for a second- the oe application for this pump is probably automotive based- the pumps are either mounted in the low part of the fuel tank or in the fuel line below the tank on the chassis where it is gravity fed fuel- on oe sea ray mercruiser installations w/ mercruiser engines the pump is mounted on the stringer below the tank- pumps push fuel great but are poor at sucking it- if you buy a holley electric fuel pump as per the installation book the pump must be gravity fed fuel- theres something to think about- and ps- you are not supposed to presurize the filter separator- it is supposed to be on the suction side of the system- also- on optimax the efi hi pressure pump is gravity fed fuel

[Techno]

Thats just what I was thinking. If in a car... But there aren't any bottom fed tanks in a boat- gravity feed. The only ones that exist are car fuel cells- and aren't USCG approved. If the tank has to be drawn from the top it ain't gravity fed any more, only siphon.

quote from my carter pump- low pressure.
"place the pump and bracket assembly as near to the bottom of the fuel tank as possible, but never more than 24 inches above the top of the tank"
So this one can be place 2' above an unknown tank height?


I think there are a few high pressure separators out there but why remove water after the pump?

[stvhelm]

If you mount the pump low the fuel will stay in the pump. It pushes the fuel it has trapped in the line and it will create suction and feed itself. If its mounted to high the fuel drains from the pump and it runs dry which takes longer to get the fuel moving.

[Ted Fraser]

I have had the electric pump stop and no pressure on the guage. Reverse the polarity at the pump and it will run backwards and sometimes clear the pump. Reconnect and away you go.