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View Full Version : Verado 275 - 400hp ??



nzskiracer
06-10-2004, 03:50 AM
Has anybody heard if Mercury Racing are hotting these Verado engines up to 400hp??
Are they actually capable of this with the 2.6L supercharged engine??
Trying to work out if the rumors are true.:rolleyes:

Raceman
06-10-2004, 10:42 AM
I haven't heard the rumors, but the horsepower to displacement ratio is beleivable. There are exotic cars as well as modified rice rockets that have those kind of ratios and are dependable.

Minty
06-10-2004, 04:12 PM
I did see something about "Project X" being tested to 400HP although talking to the UK's Mercury importer (E.P. Barrus) at the weekend, his view was that they are more likely to develop the concept down the range before making them even more powerful.

On the other hand, as Yamaha now have a 300 HPDI non-racing engine, I would be surprised if Mercury didn't bring out a 300 before long. I am not connected to boating, other than as a hobby and I am between boats at the moment but I am hoping that a more powerful Vorado will become available before my next boat is built - an 8.5 metre RIB (hopefully by next season).

We haven't seen a Verado in the UK yet (as you've got them all in the US!) but the technology sounds great! Do they really have the acceleration from rest of a modern 2-stroke? I
Are they anywhere near as quiet as the advertising blurb would have us believe?

If your answers are "yes" and "yes", it would be difficult to chose anything else!

Minty

:cool:

2springers26
06-10-2004, 05:37 PM
My boss was @ the mercury meatings this week in fondulac... they went to the lake to drive a verado... 6 guys in a 21 foot lund boat.. on plane in 35 feet.. crack the throttle.. Instant responce.. & you can talk next to the motor @ WOT, & hear the prop wisper thru the water..... But It needs a DIET.. put my arms around one in school a few weeks ago.. I can't even touch the back side of the cowl!!! BUT its COOL.... rumor mil.. up here in merc land is over 400 hp.. & living....

dynobo
06-10-2004, 09:53 PM
Wonder what kind of power they put out without the boost. We use 40% as a reliable HP increase in automobile engines and still keep the reliability, so if we applied that here 300 hp x .40 = 420 hp. Doubt these can put out 300 on just engine so I would imagine that it is possible to get 400 but, I think reliability would be greatly sacrificed. They would probably have to run the boost pretty high to get those numbers and head gaskets would probably be an every other week deal. Not saying this as a nay or yea just thinking out loud............Bobo

sho305
06-11-2004, 09:00 AM
Problem is will you have to mortgage your house again if it grenades? Well, I suppose to those running 400hp out of them will not care about money so much anyway.

Does anyone know how they are setup, is it cammed for high rpm and the blower makes up on the bottom...or the other way around/etc?

msm
06-11-2004, 03:32 PM
imho, this big version can put out 400+ 93 pump gas only last a long time, relative to the high perf 2 strokes that is...

How many hours do you think the rings will last in a 400 horsepower version? It would seem ring & bore wear would be greatly accelerated when you crank up the boost. 100 hours? 150? Anyone?

RRRevinrude
06-11-2004, 06:25 PM
1sadstream.....thanks again for your expert opinion,based on what????how many supercharged cars/boats do you have????sorry if we're boring you--i think msm brings up a good point...you don't even know how long it will live in stock form-much less with the boost cranked up:o :o :o

Raceman
06-11-2004, 06:32 PM
One of my best friends has an F40 that I've spent a lot of track time in. It has close to 10K miles on it, mostly at Ferrari club track events. It has had one timing belt change only because it was Ferrari's scheduled maintainance, but other than that and oil change it's never had the decklid up. (except when I messed with it a little with a few aftermarket parts:eek: ) It's BIG power from a little motor and it has over 20 lbs boost. When we went to the Ferrari factory in the early 90's we were given hot laps at the company test track by a driver who does nothing but that daily. He'd logged over 60K miles in that car on that track and said the motor had never been down. I don't have any reason to believe that IF the Verado is properly engineered, which only time will tell, that it can't have that kind of power output and be durable. Whether they can make it hgh horse, durable, and idiot proof alltogether remains to be seen.

NoRevs, I thought y'all Florida boyz kinda stuck together. Seems like you're bein' kinda hard on wunna yo' own. :D

Scream And Fly
06-11-2004, 07:09 PM
A race version of the Verado is under development. The word from Mercury is that it will push some serious horsepower.

Greg

msm
06-11-2004, 07:32 PM
I did a little research for you guys. I looked at a recent Mercury Racing Consumer & Race Sterndrives brochure. Merc offers two supercharged engines that I think can be considered state-of-the-art for 4-stroke marine applications. One engine is the HP575 SCI. It's rated at 575 horsepower and it displaces 8.2 litres, or 70 horsepower per litre. The other super charged offering is the HP900 SC. It's rated at 900 horsepower and it displaces 8.9 litres, or 101 horsepower per litre.

If you do the math, the 400 horsepower Verado would have to achieve 154 horsepower per litre. The current Verado, at 275 horsepower, is already at 106 horsepower per litre.

So, to answer nzskiracer's original question, it would seem unlikely that Mercury Racing would/could make such an offering with any kind of confidence or warranty. Time will tell....or maybe jimmyb will :D

BarryStrawn
06-11-2004, 07:59 PM
And how many hours does a Mercuriser 1075 last when run wide open?

Or a Ferrari F40 if they took it to Nardo (8 mile banked track) and held it WFO.

dynobo
06-11-2004, 09:56 PM
YOU GUYS PLAYING RUFF' TODAY. I THINK THE ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE PRO/CON AT THIS TIME. THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAR ENGINES IN CARS AND CAR ENGINES IN BOATS IS THAT IN BOATS YOU IS ALWAYS GOING UPHILL PULLING A LOAD. IN A CAR YOU CAN RUN BOOST UPWARDS OF 20 PSI BUT NOT SUSTAINED FOR HOURS AT A TIME AS WOULD BE ON A 60-80 MILE OFFSHORE WOT RUN IN A BOAT. I DON'T THINK YOU WILL HARM THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY AS USUALLY ONLY RPM DESTROYS ROTATERS NOT BOOST. I STILL THINK THERE WILL BE CYLINDER HEAD/GASKET ISSUES. RACEMAN, I THINK YOU ARE DEAD ON THE MONEY WITH THE F40, BUT THAT IS USING SMALLER BORES THAN WHAT WE HAVE HERE AND THAT TRANSLATES TO A SMALLER COEFFECIENT OF CYLINDER COMBUSTION PRESSURE. AND IF THEY START MAKING BOAT MOTORS IDIOT PROOF, ALOT OF US ON THIS BOARD WILL LOOKING FOR WORK............BOBO

RRRevinrude
06-11-2004, 11:02 PM
i don't doubt for a minute that you can get 400 hp out of the new verado..........i am waiting to see a supercharged engine live in a "marine" environment.....as tight as the clearances have to be ,it just seems like salt air will eat em up.......don't know just gotta see it....as far as bashing the verado-i'm not-i am impressed with the engineering.....show me that it will live and i will be even more impressed....hell-it hasn't even been released yet so this is all speculation......1sad stream--the reason you catch a lot of sh!t from the fla guys is that you are always mouthing off about something even if you don't know anything about it....read your response to msm earlier...wtf??your arrogance is irritating.....as far as my slomc--bring whatever you got that floats--- anytime mercboy:eek: :eek: :eek:

RRRevinrude
06-12-2004, 11:17 AM
you are comparing car motors to boat motors(and by the way-some of the ones you mentioned are turbo charged not super charged) not really a very good comparison....and yes i think it is arrogant when you start off your post with a yawn!!!! and i also think you are contradicting yourself cause you can't really compare the verado to anything.........it's all new technology.....and raceman--i don't doubt the ferrari story either but its totally different like barry said....up shifting,down shifting etc...run that same ferrari up a 15 degree incline for 4-5 hours at wfo and see how it does.......ya'll are comparing apples to tomatos--thats all i'm saying....i hope it makes 600 hp and lives for ten years---but only time will tell.........i'm done

Liberator25
06-12-2004, 11:34 AM
I don't see any problem with merc getting the Verado to 400 hp with high reliability. Spoke with a merc tech the other day who had just returned from Verado School and these are some of the things he shared. The valve train, in its' current state of design, is good for 8,000 rpms. The 275 hp motor will make that power with a two valve head - the Verado has a 4 valve head. The motor is VERY understressed at its' current level of tune.

From these bits of info, I would suppose that a 400 HP Verado would be pretty easy and pretty reliable.

Chuck Goodman can get 400 HP out of a 300X today with Nitrous and it's completely reliable. The nitrous systems that go BANG are trying to pull 500 plus. That's past reliable. Motor cycle engines have had very high HP per Cubic Inch that exceeded 200 for a number of years and they enjoy excellent reliability.

All said, I think a 400 HP Verado with a one year warranty is not only "do-able", but very likely in the near future. I can't wait.:cool:

Liberator25
06-12-2004, 12:50 PM
I can feel the love.

Scream And Fly
06-12-2004, 12:55 PM
Come on everyone, play nice.:)

I have first hand information that Mercury is developing some pretty serious race versions of this engine. That's not speculation either.

Greg

Liberator25
06-12-2004, 01:00 PM
I think 1BadStream is just jokin' with me - but he and RRRevinude are having a moment. I just couldn't resist puttin' in my .02. But good luck on the referee deal. Sometimes this thing gets UG-LY.:cool:

BarryStrawn
06-12-2004, 04:59 PM
I'd still like to hear the expert opinions about how many hours a Mercuriser 1075 will last when run wide open? I'd guess somewhere between 10 and 20 of full throttle before they need freshened up.

Raceman
06-12-2004, 09:33 PM
I wouldn't have a clue how long the upper HP blower motors would last at full throttle, but wouldn't think they'd be long timers either.

I am interested in is Greg's opinion that there might be a difference in durability with turbo charging as opposed to supercharging. I'm not trying to argue that there's not because I never really thought about it, and don't have much experience with either, except we've run the hell outta the F40.

Backfire
06-12-2004, 10:39 PM
At $150,000 a pop for the Merc 1075, I hope that doesn't translate to the same ratio for a 400 +- hp outboard.
Backfire ;)

sho305
06-13-2004, 01:07 AM
I don't think they will last that long at 400hp, maybe a while with high dollar parts/mods but still not that long. Blowers are hard on a motor when you are doubling the HP from a good natural output number. It will be a major achievement if they can, and I wish them luck. You will see that motor in more than the Verado if they can.

I didn't think the BBCs were that big a pos given all the decades of race time/tech invested in them, and given the bore size they have. But I'm not motor designer.

I thought a turbo was nicer to a motor except for the heat it generates. I am pretty sure a blower takes more power to run, then the motor has to make more to have the same HP as a turbo. A turbo tends to get better mpg, but new tech seems to have gotten the blower close to it.

If Merc makes a 400hp version, how much will it be I wonder or how much will someone pay for it?

RRRevinrude
06-13-2004, 08:04 AM
didn't know if you were talking to me or not...usually its no revs...i don't know much about either set up other than(as sho305 has already said)-a blower must be driven and a turbo drives itself..we need a response from fast freddie on this one--he works on turbo buicks every day...i know blowers are more reponsive-but i believe they are also tougher on internal parts...don't know about the logevity issue either i just think its gonna be tough to feed salt air through a blower without having some kind of effect on the tight clearances needed....i may be wrong...i know salt water will eat the impeller and housing out of a jet ski in about 1/3 the time of a jet ski in fresh water(another bad comparison)--but the point is --salt water and air is tough on everything and i wanna see how they hold up after a few years...again-i am impressed with the technology-BUT--the fact remains that as of right now-yamaha owns the four cycle market and mercury will have to take it back from them...most of the people that will be buying verados don't care about 400 hp--they want to go 40-50 miles offshore and get home...i won't mention names but i do know someone who plans to race one(maybe as soon as next year) and he says the hp thing is not a problem but they are having a lot of lower unit issues....tearing the guts out of them....don't know--just rumors--but pretty reliable source...greg

1BadAction
06-13-2004, 12:23 PM
with a lysholme type blowers you are pretty much making boost off-idle to WFO. even when you are cruzing at 3/4 throttle or so. although, the verado has a electronic bypass valve (like the whipples in a car app) so it stands to reason that merc would set it up the same, that is, where it only closes to give boost when you are accelerating, or under a load.

a turbo, depending on setup, doesn't start making usable boost untill 2000+. but USUALLY the maximum boost is higher than a stock pulleyed lysholme type. I know that the typhoon that i work on/tune for my buddy is awesome as hell.

anyways, if the blower on the verado is effected by salt remains to be seen. its hard to say. if the case is an anodized casting THEN machined, the machined spot is going to corrode, they most likely hard anodized it after machining, besides the protection from the hard ano, it also makes the surface for the rotors slicker. they could also hard anodize that and have the anodizing impregnated with teflon(i have a custom upper reciever for my rifle like that and the action is the sweetest!). What are the screws made out of? surely not regular steel, and i think stainless is wrong in that application. possibly hard anodized aluminum is the only material they could use. well 6al-4v titanium would be the best it would never corrode or rust, but each rotor would have roughly $500 of material in it...

what kind of intake and heads do normal marine 4 strokers have on them? i assume bare aluminum heads and SS valves. but how do these hold up?

scott reierson
06-13-2004, 01:12 PM
I drove the 29ft Sport fish/twin 250 Verado at the Mercury Demo here in WI at Lake Lawn last Friday AM.

Nice piece. Big & quiet. Nice steering and controls. Started and ran great, very quiet for twins. Shifting was excellent.

Another rig was the Ranger with a 275 Verado. The Merc guys told me about 75 mph as rigged.

If they can get 350-400 out of these motors it would be a very nice alternative for some of us with larger rigs. If they could drop its weight it would even be better.

I saw my first Verados at one of the dealers I visited last week. One is going on a Ranger Bass, another on a big Crestliner. One of the Merc Reps. told me they are making about 20 versions per week

Take a ride in a Verado rig. They are pretty cool. From an outboard gearheads point of view I thought they were pretty well laid out.

Scott

nzskiracer
06-16-2004, 05:11 AM
Thanks to all that replied to the thread.
It seems there is definite potential for these Verados to get a we bit bigger yet. We will all have to wait and see what rabbit Mercury pulls out of its hat next.
Great boating to you all.

sho305
06-16-2004, 06:59 AM
Another good point...I would not be surprised if they left room to hog it out to 3.0L or so.

performance 900
07-22-2004, 04:55 PM
What about the weight?? 600?

sho305
07-22-2004, 11:41 PM
Weight, I think Verado is 635 w/out the steering ram (as others don't include trim pumps). It says on the Merc site in the Verado part, or there are some good posts about the motor on here if you search some.

I have written here someplace from websites....

Merc-
Verado 635lb
300x 480lb
250 opti 505lb
250 efi 479lb
280 OS 412lb

300 Vmax Yami 540lb

4 stroke- honda 610lb, 225-200 yami 583lb

DarthVMAX
07-23-2004, 08:42 AM
Sounds like the 10,000 rpm 500+ hp ETEC V-6 that was tested :rolleyes: ;) :D

sho305
07-23-2004, 11:59 AM
I have no doubt they can get that kind of power out of it, I just have doubts it would do it for very long. Does not look like 300hp 300x lasts very long from posts on here, and that is accomplished and refined design and the latest durability technology for that type motor. I can see them hogging it to 3.0L and going 300hp, maybe 350. The automakers (talking affordable mass cars here) have a hard time going much over 100hp/L, then you are WOT constant in a boat...I think the cost would be prohibitive though they might sell a few hipo versions for lots of cash, but not your normal motor. The boost will make loads of power if you crank it up, and loads of broken parts. I have to agree though, the monster torque these reportedly have must be a riot in an OB. I can't wait to hear about twins on a bigger tunnel:cool: Imagine the wheelies Wildman could do...will do? :D

You never know, maybe they have a big block version in the wings or something like that...something that could do 400hp easily. No reason it could not work on these bigger hulls that I know of. What if they had a 3.5-4.0L block? Would be what, only 50lbs more? Strap two on a 28' hull and it would perform.

Just1More
07-28-2004, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by BarryStrawn
And how many hours does a Mercuriser 1075 last when run wide open?

Or a Ferrari F40 if they took it to Nardo (8 mile banked track) and held it WFO.

Can't speak much on the Mercruiser, HOWEVER,
Considering the Ferrari's of today have AMAZING reliability (Michael Schumacher hasn't had a technical failure in 50 races)
I think the F40 would last quite a while.

BarryStrawn
07-28-2004, 08:45 AM
Depends on what "quite a while" means.

Merc1100sc
07-28-2004, 10:03 AM
NOT SURE IF ANYONE POSTED THIS YET OR NOT, BUT, FOR RELIABILTY COMPARISON PURPOSES, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT REBUILD SCHEDULES ON THE 900SC AND 1075SCi ARE AT 50 HOURS.

sho305
07-28-2004, 10:11 AM
I bet the F40 motor has some cash invested in it, and it costs a whole lot to get one.

So what is the deal with the Verados? Are they for sale now? No tests yet? Are the LUs doing ok? Thought I would have seen some more posts on them by now. That Miami boat show was a long time ago in S&F time:)

If they are going to get up to speed and compete with the old stuff these new motors need to get out there, for the benefit of everyone who likes to go faster.

optimax135
07-28-2004, 10:21 AM
The only way I understand that you can get a Verado is on pre-packaged boats. You will not be able to repower a boat with these at this time. There's a lot of training to be done for rigging and set up of these motors. This is probably why your not seeing them on the water yet unless it is on a new boat. Whaler, JC pontoons, Tritons and a few others. Manufacturers have to redesign transoms to fit the Verado's on these boats. I think it has something to do with the trim and steering system as well as the weight.

DarthVMAX
07-28-2004, 10:26 AM
There have been a few tests done so far by some mags. B&WB tested a 275 on a 22' flats boat (69 mph) and a 250 on a Triton TR-21x Bassboat (73 mph). IMO the results have been less than stellar, especially with all the "be all" "end all" hype that surrounded "Project X". I should re-itterate...great for a 4-stroke but still not performance of a 2-stroke.

I believe B&WB is going to pit the 250 Verado against the 250xs in an upcoming issue. Personally I think the 250xs will eat the 250V's lunch IF they use a bassboat. The Verado might have the edge if they use a big HEAVY Walleye boat.

sho305
07-28-2004, 10:47 AM
From posts here the SOB guys are running out these 250-300hp motors and giving some good info on them. I agree the hype was thick, as it is limited in what you can do with it. They gave the impression you could toss your 250 and use one of these.

Custom transom, that will make it hard to play with them for a while. Sounds like the current Verados are better for the I/O replacement angle. There are a ton of family I/Os around here, I think mostly due to the big lakes and how they allow you to run bigger water more easily aside from the normal sales reasons. I was thinking that is where they would cash in, on the family boats and cuddies, skiers, etc. With OB performance and power steering, that looks good...but they appear to be into the big bassers and fishers right now. Not a bad place I guess, just don't see as many of them here.

BarryStrawn
07-28-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Merc1100sc
NOT SURE IF ANYONE POSTED THIS YET OR NOT, BUT, FOR RELIABILTY COMPARISON PURPOSES, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT REBUILD SCHEDULES ON THE 900SC AND 1075SCi ARE AT 50 HOURS.

Thank You. 50 total hours seems pretty reasonable for the application.

the witchdoctor
07-28-2004, 11:36 AM
Talk about reliable. They have 56 boats at the classic this week, and here are the results before the party starts. Mercury was instructed be Bass to tune them down where they wouldn't run about 70. After rigging them, they have NONE that will run 70 before de-tuning. They had 1 that won't turn over 2000 rpms, 3 that won't even crank, and 2 that have died while idleing and won't fire back up. Juts stating the facts. Like any other NEW motor, they will have issues, and someone will figure out how to make one go.

RB in NM
07-28-2004, 11:49 AM
Where are your facts coming from bud? I can not EVER remember a BASS tourny regulating down to a 70 mph speed limit. Only regulations on HP limits for the boats being used.

Your facts remind me of when the Verado came out at the boat show, and guys where reporting they were catching on fire, blowing up,,blah,blah,blah.....

RB

optimax135
07-28-2004, 12:17 PM
I don't know where your gettin your facts witch Dr. but your full of bologna.My buddy is in the classic and has three days in the boat and I asked him about your dependability facts. He said your full of it. The Triton they're running the Verado's is a flats boat and the top speed is 72mph before the boat gets too goofy to handle. He said there is plenty more power left if the boat could handle it. He's sponsered by Skeeter and usually runs a Yamaha so his opinion is non biased. Blah Blah Blah!!!!

the witchdoctor
07-28-2004, 12:38 PM
Well my facts come from the guys that rigged them up. Don't shoot the messanger guys just telling you what I was told. Wouldn't matter to me what brand it was. Just saying what I know. If that pisses yall' off then let it be.

Just1More
07-28-2004, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by optimax135
The only way I understand that you can get a Verado is on pre-packaged boats. You will not be able to repower a boat with these at this time.

Not true. I could go up to Almars Outboards and get one for my 215 Challenger right now.

optimax135
07-28-2004, 01:21 PM
I don't think so.........Almars doesn't have any techs trained to rig them. I was at the Whaler meeting last week and Merc said they will not be selling them as repowers at this time. Only packaged boats so that they know they are rigged right and that the boat they go on are strong enough to hold them.

Just1More
07-28-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by optimax135
I don't think so.........Almars doesn't have any techs trained to rig them. I was at the Whaler meeting last week and Merc said they will not be selling them as repowers at this time. Only packaged boats so that they know they are rigged right and that the boat they go on are strong enough to hold them.

Call them. I did 2 weeks ago.

sho305
07-28-2004, 02:37 PM
Shhhh, next thing you know Ronnie will be welding up a shorty to put one on his...:D

Propster
07-28-2004, 03:38 PM
635 lbs, wow, that motor weighs the same as my Harley! I think a supercharger will hold up in salt water. How many 4-71, 6-71 and 8-71 Detroit Diesels are running in yachts and sport fishers since 1950? They are supercharged, right?

Minty
07-28-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by optimax135
The only way I understand that you can get a Verado is on pre-packaged boats. You will not be able to repower a boat with these at this time.

Fat chance we've got of seeing them in the UK for a while then!

It might explain why so little test data is emerging though.

:(

Hydrovector
07-28-2004, 04:06 PM
Is cast with A-356 Aluminum. The same alloy that the transom brackets are made of. The low copper alloy is very good for the salt water environment. With a solution heat treatment it should be very durable.

Blizz
07-28-2004, 09:42 PM
From what i've been told it'll be quite a long time before anyone is hotrodding these except mercury seeings how you have to buy a 25000$can software pakage just to rig it, and from what i heard wheelies may be a pain in the nuts seeings how the prop will stop spinning if you take your foot all the way off the gas. And i don't think any mass produced 4 stroke even from the large mans makes 100hp/litre, But if you can make close to 300 with low boost 400 shouldn't be that hard to keep reliable seeings how about 6 lbs of boost will give a 4.3 vortec about 60-65 ponies without any other mods not even exhaust. And as for reliability ask any kid with a supercharged honda ther's a ton of them out there and they beat the crap out of red light racing lol.Blizz

optimax135
07-29-2004, 07:11 AM
Salesman will tell you anything to sell you anything. I was just in Savanah Georgia 6 days ago listening to Pat Mackey tell us the future of Merc and it's pretty much headed the same direction as the automobile industry. Almars is pulling your leg unless they are tied into Merc more so than the rest of us dealers.

Just1More
07-29-2004, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by optimax135
Salesman will tell you anything to sell you anything. I was just in Savanah Georgia 6 days ago listening to Pat Mackey tell us the future of Merc and it's pretty much headed the same direction as the automobile industry. Almars is pulling your leg unless they are tied into Merc more so than the rest of us dealers.

Believe what you want, but I've actually already seen a 250 Verado on a '98 21' Outrage in St. Michaels, MD.

optimax135
07-29-2004, 08:22 AM
Whaler is one of the few that can handle the verado and is also a Brunswick company. Where did he get it? Or is it a test boat?

the witchdoctor
07-29-2004, 08:45 AM
I know the Mercury people are coming down to Bumble Bee plant as they have a 275 coming, and the guy coming down has to give them a class on rigging the motors on boats.

Just1More
07-29-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by optimax135
Whaler is one of the few that can handle the verado and is also a Brunswick company. Where did he get it? Or is it a test boat?

No not a test boat and actually I did not ask "where" he got it. I was in too much awe admiring it! :D
SOB was amazingly quite.

optimax135
07-29-2004, 09:22 AM
I'd be curious to see how that motor ended up on that boat. I can't get them except on pre-package boats. I have to have training even before I can sell them. Training isn't available to dealers until fall.

Just1More
07-29-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by optimax135
I'd be curious to see how that motor ended up on that boat. I can't get them except on pre-package boats. I have to have training even before I can sell them. Training isn't available to dealers until fall.

Dunno.

blkmtrfan
07-29-2004, 03:45 PM
Verado Pricing:

http://www.stevensmarine.com/mercury.php

I am not sure, but it looks like they are selling them :confused:

CUSTOM PERFORMANCE 1
07-29-2004, 09:13 PM
A couple of thoughts,
I believe Mercury built the Verado to give back the torque that is missing on the new 4 stroke outboards of today. I have run a few and they are truly PIGS compared to equal power 2 strokes. The problem is that our wonderful government has mandated these epa figures that the manufacturers have to meet to stay in business. I have run a Verado and it is really a work of art for a fishing motor, nothing compares. As for boosted engines, my little 1.1 liter homda Blackbird makes over 260 hp at the tire on 9 lbs of boost on 93 octane pump gas. It is completely reliable with a 10.5 to 1 compression ratio. If you do the math, that is well over 200 hp per liter! However, outboards are subject to constant and extreme torque loads and in a boosted motor that builds heat quick. So to make it reliable, they use fairly large displacement engine on relatively low boost levels to achieve reliability, especially when some numnut will fill the tank with 87 octane fuel cause that is all he could get. And I am sure they are not cheap to repair.:)

John1250
07-29-2004, 11:25 PM
400 hp? The best thing about it is : Cut it in half, use a light weight mid and LU and get 200 hp out of a 325 lb 4 stroke with good low end torque. Oh yeah, half the cost too??!! Seriously, I think the Verado flunks only one test of engineering - Make it simple. A supercharged 4v 4 stroke w/variable valve tuning involves a lot of moving parts. All parts have to be engineered with respect to hardness, flexibility, strength, lubricity, heat characteristics, heat transfer, etc. Not to mention servicability, cost, diagnosis, etc. Boy I gotta think the the more appropriate route would be to start with a two stroke and not waste half the piston movement just to pump gasses in and out of a cylinder against little resistance. A turbo two stroke could scavange gases as well as a 4 stroke and the turbo is driven by only exhaust gas expansion, creating a little desirable back pressure.

sho305
07-30-2004, 12:12 AM
How about a 4 cyl from a 300X? Ah well, we will have to see how the 2.5XS does.

optimax135
07-30-2004, 09:33 AM
I don't know what for set up you ran the Verado but to call them pigs is kinda harsh. All the verado's I ran matched or out performed the 2-stroke(factory motors). I'm not sure where you are coming from with this. Why would Merc market a motor that wouldn't match or meet the performance requirements of us boaters? Personally I was quite impressed with the performance of the Verado.:D

300x Stoker
07-30-2004, 11:37 AM
Stevens is our local dealer. I just called them to find out the scoop. They have 1 Verado they are rigging on a boat and are waiting for the controls to be sent. They don't have any more to sell now. It will be one more month till you can get one.

blkmtrfan
07-30-2004, 02:10 PM
Thanks for the info about Stevens, I ran into that list and it looked like they were selling them, would love to see on run in person :cool:

CUSTOM PERFORMANCE 1
07-31-2004, 05:40 PM
I meant I have run a number of new 4 strokes and they are pigs. When I ran the Verado, I was most impressd, nothing like it on the water today. This is a production fishing motor, aimed at the general boater and offshore fishing guy that wants 2 stroke performance with 4 stroke economy. :)

1BadAction
07-31-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by John1250
Boy I gotta think the the more appropriate route would be to start with a two stroke and not waste half the piston movement just to pump gasses in and out of a cylinder against little resistance. A turbo two stroke could scavange gases as well as a 4 stroke and the turbo is driven by only exhaust gas expansion, creating a little desirable back pressure.

woa woa, hold your horses, im working on it... ;)

sho305
08-01-2004, 08:44 PM
mmmmmmmm, Turbo.... :) :cool: :)

1BadAction
08-01-2004, 09:22 PM
yep, This one has .800" dia impellers for my RC stuff. It worked awesome untill i tried to run it TOO close to the exhaust port and melted the ends of the aluminum blades to the case :eek: so the next turbine impeller is going to be titanium...

I am also going to be making 1.5", 2", 2.5", 3", and 4" models for other applications. each size of course is going to have several different impeller pitches to alter the boost level. The bigger stuff it going to be Cast steel cases, with machined insides. Which, finding a place to do this has turned out to be a pita. this small one is made of billet 6061-t6 aluminum parts, and the turbine is 6al-4v TI :cool:

1BadAction
08-01-2004, 09:24 PM
dont want to let the cat out too bad, but heres another showing the exhaust.

Mark75H
08-01-2004, 09:32 PM
What lubricates the bearings?

1BadAction
08-01-2004, 09:42 PM
there is alot of stuff that i hand drilled and tapped on these prototypes, and the models dont show them. in the center of the bearing housing, there is a pressure nipple in the top, that has a length of tygon that connects to the bottom of the turbine housing where the unburnt oil and fuel collects. that gets rid of the puddling problems, AND lubes the bearings. the bearings are boca bearing ceramic units with teflon seals, I remove the seal on the inside so the oil can get to it. and leave it on the outside where the impellers run so it doesn't blow through too much. there is no blow by on the compressor side because the pressure pushes the seal against the bearing, on the turbine side it just goes back where it came from if there is any blowby.

Mark75H
08-01-2004, 09:49 PM
Talk about simplification! :)

Brown oil from the turbine housing doesn't eat up the shaft?

Cool beans! :)

1BadAction
08-01-2004, 09:59 PM
really, the full synthetic that i use for oil doesnt get gritty, the castor works just as good, but after you run it MUST be cleaned with motor spray, or it will get all gummy. simple, yes, you should see how i got the gravity feed carb to work :eek:

sho305
08-01-2004, 10:59 PM
That is sweet!:) So you don't mess with wastegates, BOVs...how do you know what the boost is? Broken parts?:D I assume you are not running gas...and that keeps heat down.

squarles
08-02-2004, 10:21 AM
Saw a 250 Verado at the Houston boat show this past weekend. That thing is HUGE! There was a 250XS and a 200 EFI sitting next to it and the Verado dwarfed them. I knew they were big but I was really suprised at how big.

It had a price of $16800 so I'm guessing it was available for re-power. Captain Kirk's marine North of Houston.

Stephen

Blizz
08-03-2004, 02:22 PM
I just saw a 250 Verado being rigged on a 21 foot Lund fishing boat so yes they can be put on anything that has a big enough transom and that's the 2nd one they've rigged. And that's from the only dealer in Canada that can get them at this time. But it takes quite a while to get the stuff for them because the motor only comes with 4 bolts 8 washers and 4 nuts then you fill out a 2 page questionair (sp) asking for every dimention of your boat and it's purpose, then everything is custom made for the boat it's just 1 big wire harness and 2 hyd lines. It's very different to see the trim cylinders and steering brackets move with the motor. The first motor they put on went on a Stanley work boat pretty heavy tub and it had more punch than anything 2 or 4 stroke that they have ever put on anything including the 300 yammy. Blizz

skip merck
08-03-2004, 04:44 PM
There's a guy on Bass Boat Central running a 250 Verado on his Bass Cat. He said it is 1 mph slower than a 250 XS but does accelerate better. I was wondering how the Verados held up at the Classic, looks like 2 different reports so far. I guess if we dont' see any durability ads about it from Mercury than we know they had some problems.

optimax135
08-04-2004, 10:42 AM
The only reports I got from the classic were 3 boats had dead batteries which needed to be changed out. They had a couple of lap tops hooked to a few but I don't know if they were repairing them or just checking out some computer data for R&D. That's all I heard!

DarthVMAX
08-04-2004, 11:07 AM
They did have a few they couldn't run (probably why I saw a 225 opti on one boat) and performance was lackluster (very slow out of the hole) and running around 71 WOT.:o

BarryStrawn
08-04-2004, 11:24 AM
Yeah, there is no room for heresay, conjecture, and pure BULL**** when discussing the Verado. Unless it is favorable of course.

optimax135
08-04-2004, 11:47 AM
The one's that had opti's on were media boats and service boats. The Verado's were running a Tempest prop with solid plugs in all the PVS ports, that's why they were doggy out of the hole. They were propped for top end and none of the anglers could hold them wide open before they started getting squirrly. Top end was 62-65 mph on an average. I heard they did that because they were afraid the anglers wouldn't be used to the hole shot Verado is capable of and didn't want anyone to get hurt.

BarryStrawn
08-04-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by 1BadStream
thats ok, i am just waiting for somebody to find something bad on them:D

Other than the weight?

BarryStrawn
08-04-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by optimax135
The one's that had opti's on were media boats and service boats. The Verado's were running a Tempest prop with solid plugs in all the PVS ports, that's why they were doggy out of the hole. They were propped for top end and none of the anglers could hold them wide open before they started getting squirrly. Top end was 62-65 mph on an average. I heard they did that because they were afraid the anglers wouldn't be used to the hole shot Verado is capable of and didn't want anyone to get hurt.

Now that's some world class SPIN!

BarryStrawn
08-04-2004, 12:02 PM
So the weight isn't bad?

And who's full of crap? My engine isn't that color.

DarthVMAX
08-04-2004, 12:09 PM
Your acting like I stold your lunch and crapped in your plate:rolleyes: I said "heard", I should have said "read". Go look on Headturners3 and BFHP. I read posts of those that were there and rode in the Verado powered boats or was involved with rigging. Can I personally substantiate their claims.......no. Just like I can't anyone here either :eek: :rolleyes:

http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/boats_motors/T75460.htm


Guess what??? I have an Allison XB2002 with a MERCURY on it....what do YOU have?;) I hope you get a really cool boat with a 275 Verado on it so you'll be nice and happy:D

Oh and by the way....BASSMASTER has a contract with Mercury and Triton....hmmm I can't imagine bagging on the bill payer:rolleyes:

optimax135
08-04-2004, 01:35 PM
Until you ride in one I'd keep my comments to myself! Merc haters are typical losers who spend the week-end on shore working on their boats wishing they had a Merc so they could go boating.:D Get a life! I went to your web about Verado and all comments were positive except for the one's you idiots wrote here!

DarthVMAX
08-04-2004, 02:11 PM
Losers!? Idiots!? I would rate your conversation skills as high (or low) as your hp on your username.:o You really need to stop and READ a post before you spout your big mouth off. Name calling really shows how bright you are.:rolleyes: The posts by "rider" was the same thing I remarked, and except for a DEALER was the only one (in that thread) that had ridden in a V powered boat. We all know how truthful MOST (not all) dealers are about performance of a boat/motor they want to sell:eek: The ONLY dog I have in this is the incredible HYPE this thing got and it looks like it is NOT going to be the world beater it is touted as being (meaning 2 and 4 strokes).

I think the Verado will awesome on a salt-water fishin boat or a Walleye boat.

Dude....I have a Merc....and I don't HATE it :p

optimax135
08-04-2004, 02:25 PM
This must have been the hi-lite of your day Garth-Vmax. You know jack and voice opions on crap you know nothing about. Stop acting like a cry baby and go back to your water shack and wipe away those tears of frustration from your pitiful face. Your a freakin' Einstein and should be in this years election. With your knowledge you could fix our national problems with the snap of a finger .There's no doubt your the type of dealer you speak of. Gimme a freakin break! EinsteinVMax

DarthVMAX
08-04-2004, 02:42 PM
I think there is a little mis-understanding here....:confused:

I wasn't trying to say "see, I told ya so". I was just showing what I have read...that is all. You could dismiss more than half the threads on the net if we all had the attitude of not believing anything until it was personally experienced. Example: Would you believe a 300 drag motor on a STV is fast even though you have not driven one or even seen one run yourself? Unless the boat was sinking or it something was malfunctioning I sure would think of it as a fast boat. How about RRevinrudes 127 mph claims in his HST??? I have no reason to dispute him.

Call me gullible

I'll go back to my shack...boo hoo hoo:D :D

optimax135
08-04-2004, 02:49 PM
Love you too man!:D

sho305
08-05-2004, 10:54 AM
That big Verado, seems like someone would be tooling up molds for a 24' basser now;) maybe more...

Blizz
08-05-2004, 10:09 PM
The big aluminum work tub that the marina put one on up here is getting mid 60's and it weighs a hell of alot more than a bass boat so if their only getting the same it's the way they're set up and that's runnin 6200RPM's. And let's remember some of the big names that helped create this beast ie Cosworth, Lotus, BMW, which are very big in the hi-po arena so if Merc wants it to be the power can be made.Blizz Oh ya it does punch as much or harder than any 2stroke fishin mota felt that myself..

sho305
08-05-2004, 10:44 PM
Big basser! This spring some dealers were running ads for left over bass boats at $30K. I thought that was a lot of cash for a standard bass boat with a V6, but that is what they are I guess. Just think you could have three bayliner I/Os for that...lol:D :eek: Just seems like if you get a big boat with a cuddy you have something more than a flat deck.

Riverman
09-23-2004, 02:58 PM
Sorry I got into this a little late but...

WRT the Verado supercharger eating saltwater, I read somewhere that the rotors in this 'charger were of a non-metallic construction - read composite. Aircraft propellers are being made out of carbon composite, why not these rotors?

I think one of the weak points of a blown engine running at a constant heavy load is the exhaust valve. The exhaust valve is the hottest running part on the engine, and the only cooling it gets is when it is closed in contact with the head. The engine (valve timing) designer must choose between valve open time (performance) vs. valve closed time (longevity).

The supercharged engine doesn't need the exhaust valve open as long as the turbo engine, as the turbo needs maximum exhaust flow to develop boost. Therefore, expect the exhaust valve to live longer on a supercharged engine.

My .02 - RM

yahoo
10-10-2004, 07:57 AM
Has anybody looked at the lower ? It looks like a bravo unit, anybody know of a nose cone(low water pickup).

Im waiting for the counter rotating on the 20inch shaft.

I will be putting them on a 30ft motion cat.

replacing 2.5 efi's.

CM

blkmtrfan
10-10-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by yahoo
I will be putting them on a 30ft motion cat.

replacing 2.5 efi's.

CM

How many?

yahoo
10-10-2004, 05:14 PM
2 Im hoping that in the future there will be a chip.

sho305
10-11-2004, 06:12 PM
I figured the exhaust valve on a turbo closed sooner due to the backpressure causing reversion, but I guess I'd have to look at cam specs to find out as I don't remember for sure. No doubt heat would be a problem with a turbo.

From all the talk about the Verado, it looks like they use the blower to get more punch...and the 4 valve head/etc to get power at high rpms and not so much blower then...but I'm guessing. Certainly with the electronic blowoff they can make the power curve/boost curve however they want. It seems like they could get that power on top with a cosworth motor/etc and the size/rpms its at, but not the bottom power.

1BadAction
10-11-2004, 07:04 PM
SHO- i have been in bigger offshore boats with twin 275 verados, that are specifically being designed to handle the power of twins... the holeshot is more than excellent, its downright scary. :eek: people shouldnt knock this untill they have been in a boat with one that is set-up good. Most magazine test i have seen arent propping the motors right. From what the riggers are saying, ideally, the motor will turn 6300-6400 on top. imho, the motor doesnt seem to be limited by cam, just by boost, so the torque curve is quick untill it hits its HP cutoff, where the bypass valve cuts on, then it goes flat. it is the sickest accelerating boat with stock motors i have ever been in, and thats saying something considering the boat was 7500+ lbs :eek:

sho305
10-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Oh I don't doubt you, Greg, and others here who have run them. Blowers will give punch for sure. I spent some time in two identical 28' vees with twin BBCs. One had Merc 525s, the other had beefed up 365s with heads/502 cams and carbs/headers/etc. They both ran side by side wot at 80+. If you rolled on at lower speeds the blowers would pull a boat length or two, then run even. But the blowers took more fuel on trips...then again this was all old tech carbs, no electronics and such.

The 365s had hogged oval ports and ported rectangle performer RPM intakes to preserve some midrange torque, or they would have gone faster (but took more cruise gas, had less midrange/holeshot) with rectangle heads and a single plane. They dynoed a nice flat curve of torque starting at 3500rpm, but the blowers would pull away every time in mid rpms. 525s had headers, don't remember it they were stock or not, but motors were.

yahoo
10-31-2004, 11:26 AM
Anybody heard anything lately ? How about the
Ft lauderdale boat show ?

CM

joey jamz
10-31-2004, 06:05 PM
the only reason it has a charger is it couldnt make the power without it. same with the new turbo PWC 's.

Scream And Fly
10-31-2004, 06:07 PM
Mercury has assured me that the Racing division will have lots of goodies for me to show you at Miami this year. I can't really say anymore though ;)

Greg

1BadAction
10-31-2004, 07:49 PM
the 4 cylinder version will also be at the miami boat show in febuary. Its cute, like a baby verado.

yahoo
10-31-2004, 08:44 PM
Give me a hint, Im thinking of buying a new boat. But I may repower instead.

CM

Laker
10-31-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Scream And Fly
Mercury has assured me that the Racing division will have lots of goodies for me to show you at Miami this year. I can't really say anymore though ;)

Greg

THAT
Is nothing but Great news!!!!!!
More performance is Alwasy good news no matter what flavor you wish.

sho305
11-01-2004, 10:39 AM
Smaller Verados...makes more sense why they went after the Asian manufacturers, maybe they will not need them soon.

yahoo
12-05-2004, 06:23 PM
Any news yet ?

150aintenuff
12-07-2004, 01:21 AM
300x stoker and blkmtrfan


the verado at stevens marine is a 250 hp on a 21' Formulavee alumaweld Northwest forward helm deep(18 degree) v hull as you both i am sure are familiar with. I am friends with the sales manager Chris burgi over at their milwauki store and acording to gps with a 21P Bravo 1 prop it runs 52mph @ 6300 and it really shines @ low end and holeshot.. its a big boat but our family has a 20' formulavee with the Rivermaster Botom(14 degree pad) in the same boat and it runs 52 with only 150hp.... so IMHO it doesnt quite have it yet, except on botom.....


IT IS ALSO HUGE!!!!!! 7ft total height with 25" transom height

not to mension HEAVY 655lbs on digital scales complete less oil....

the weight is acording to paul mayer @stevensmarine Tigard store.


personally if i were to get 4stk it would be 250 suzuki..... easier to work on with better top end power (i dont care about holeshot aslong as it dont take forever) also lighter.... by over100lbs...(539) according to mike grady at siglers marine..



heres pic of verado on alumaweld from stevens:

http://www.stevensmarine.com/images/21fvobtrailer.jpg

blkmtrfan
12-07-2004, 08:52 AM
I recently saw (2) Verados being rigged on an older 27' Whaler Offshore, and you are right about them being big:eek: When I stood on the ground next to them I felt like a little kid, I just noticed last saturday that this combo is back in the water in the marina, hopefully I will get a chance to see it run ;)

150aintenuff
12-08-2004, 06:57 AM
Keep us posted.... I might have to have an excuse to visit sister in seattle.. and just come on up to look at that:)

blkmtrfan
12-08-2004, 08:41 AM
If it quits raining ,it will try to go snap a couple of photos ;)

150aintenuff
12-10-2004, 02:53 AM
dude we are in northwest..... IT ALWAYS RAINS....... just get that camera wet photoshop can fix the waterspots on the lens....... WE WANT PICS!!!!!!

blkmtrfan
12-10-2004, 08:42 AM
dude we are in northwest..... IT ALWAYS RAINS....... just get that camera wet photoshop can fix the waterspots on the lens....... WE WANT PICS!!!!!!


OK it is not just rain, how about light ;) Go to work in the dark and come home in the dark, worse than the rain, LOL. I am planning to go to the harbor the weekend to work on my cruiser, so I will take the camera and try to get some pics OK :)

150aintenuff
12-11-2004, 03:52 AM
thats why they invented flashes for cameras... so they could be used in the dark.....:p:p:p just given ya crap



cant wait

blkmtrfan
12-11-2004, 10:06 AM
Dark wet pics, should give great detail :rolleyes: :D

I plan to try to get some today (assuming the boat is in its regular slip) OK ;)

INXS
12-12-2004, 02:44 AM
a 400 HP O/B would be a great motor for say a 24' Progression, It would be nice to go flying by Jerry with one! That would leave Jerry without his Throphy again! :D

blkmtrfan
12-12-2004, 10:54 AM
Here are the pormised pics of the 27 whaler with the twin 250hp Verado repower :cool:

blkmtrfan
12-12-2004, 10:55 AM
Second pic, notice the lack of rain and/or darkness ;)

blkmtrfan
12-12-2004, 10:56 AM
Little closer view

blkmtrfan
12-12-2004, 10:57 AM
Rigging detail shot

blkmtrfan
12-12-2004, 10:58 AM
Last one, side view

300x Stoker
12-12-2004, 03:09 PM
My compliments to the owner of that boat. That thing is NICE. Talk about a seaworthy boat,,, MAN,, SWEEET!!!

blkmtrfan
12-13-2004, 08:34 AM
It is a pretty cool boat, awsome NW boat, and he sure "bucked up' with the repower, hopefully I will get to see it out this next year (I don't know the guy).

150aintenuff
12-13-2004, 01:42 PM
OH MY GOD!!!!!!! BLUE SKY IN WASHINGTON!!!!! nice boat to:p
That is a GOOD rigging layout... Love how they brought the Port engines rigging through the port side... Where is its Licence #'s. Did he get the boat painted aswell, Did notice that that hull is older, circa mid 90's That looks good..... Now to just get weight down....

blkmtrfan
12-13-2004, 01:59 PM
Tags, we don't need no stinking tags ;)


Honestly don't know that much about the boat except I saw it getting rigged at:
http://www.clearwater-marine.com/ Then I spotted it in the marina. Dosen't look
like it was repainted and for the type of boating it looks like it is set up for I think weight is a good thing, I may have to try to find out who owns it so I can see it run.

150aintenuff
12-13-2004, 02:10 PM
i noticed it had name on port rear so may be registered vessel... hence no tags:)

it was good looking and yes they can use the weight, i think that is the first whaler to sit level
most sit nose down....

owner may even want to add more botom paint at transom.... it apears tat it is sitting a little lower than before.....

JPQ
12-15-2004, 12:30 PM
I just saw a US customs boat with "4" verado 250s on the back!!!! :eek: Wish I had a camera with me!

blkmtrfan
12-15-2004, 12:46 PM
I just saw a US customs boat with "4" verado 250s on the back!!!! :eek: Wish I had a camera with me!
Must have been a Midnight Express, they own a few of those, pretty cool boats, haven't seen one with Verados yet

yahoo
12-18-2004, 10:47 AM
Whats coming new at the miami boat show

blkmtrfan
12-18-2004, 11:05 AM
Whats coming new at the miami boat show
There is supposed to be 4-cyl Verados, from 135hp up to 175hp

Also rumors of something Verado from merc racing, we can only hope :cool:

150aintenuff
12-19-2004, 02:24 AM
There is supposed to be 4-cyl Verados, from 135hp up to 175hp


Hmmm 4 bangers in what 1.0 L sizes because arent honda and yami 150 4 cyl like 2.4L as Natural engines????? this should be good what will merc come up with next???? cant wait to be surprised.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

blkmtrfan
12-19-2004, 11:22 AM
Assuming it will be a 4cyl verado (2.6l), the displacement would be around 1.7 liter.

yahoo
12-19-2004, 11:25 AM
What about stuff from Merc high performance ?

blkmtrfan
12-19-2004, 11:55 AM
I don't know anything, just rumors, but what merc HP is doing is supposed to be cool :cool:

150aintenuff
12-20-2004, 12:06 PM
HOpfully HP will shed 150 lbs and add 75 hp and call it their 300XF (300X four stoke.....) but LORD knowsthey wont.

Just1More
12-21-2004, 01:50 PM
woa woa, hold your horses, im working on it... ;)

Regarding turbo's on 2 strokes, it's been tried before and they just don't work.
Wish they did though!!

1BadAction
12-21-2004, 02:23 PM
turbos work fine on 2 strokes as long as you can get the fuel to them. It has been gone over a hundred times here... superchargers on the other hand, do not work well.

Just1More
12-21-2004, 02:29 PM
turbos work fine on 2 strokes as long as you can get the fuel to them. It has been gone over a hundred times here... superchargers on the other hand, do not work well.

It's been beat to death on other forums as well. I was actually reluctant to post about it. If you have built one that works, there are several thousand people who would be greatly interested!!!
:rolleyes:

1BadAction
12-21-2004, 04:30 PM
tell the several thousand people to open their eyes, land and sea built a kit in the early 80s that put out sick power, but it was with carburators so not all that reliable. Simon has built and ran drag cars with merc 2 strokes and EFI.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65268&stc=1

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65269&stc=1

http://home.wmis.net/~tfoote/klaus.jpg

Just1More
12-21-2004, 06:42 PM
I should have been more specific. The two strokes I'm talking about don't have reed valves, thus the forced induction of the turbo or super charger simply blows right thru to the exhaust and defeating the whole principle behind the tuned exhaust.

That LOOKS like one SICK engine on that boat!!!

1BadAction
12-21-2004, 07:03 PM
reed valves don't hold back boost. on a 2 stroke the turbo in essence feeds itself acting just like a big turbine jet engine. superchargers and turbochargers are 2 totally different deals. the turbine in the exhaust is itself the restriction that the motor needs to make boost. Ive done it with half- cubic inch RC engines, with no valves of any kind, and super high port timing. I cant find a light easily-machinable material for my turbine rotor that will not melt under the exhaust heat for my little stuff. Titanium works but it takes along time to machine because of the temp that it gets to.

yes, any turbo 2-stroke I have ran makes friggin sick power till it goes POP.

150aintenuff
12-22-2004, 02:04 AM
I should have been more specific. The two strokes I'm talking about don't have reed valves, thus the forced induction of the turbo or super charger simply blows right thru to the exhaust and defeating the whole principle behind the tuned exhaust.

That LOOKS like one SICK engine on that boat!!!


Just 1More: I guess the GM Detriot Engine division didnt build anything that worked .... but I guess all those 6V-71( supercharged 2 stk) (no reed valves) or 6V92 (Turbo/supercharger no reed 2 stk) on the road dont work either...... they may not be OB engines but pressurized induction in a 2 stroke works very well and with pressurized induction you can run an oil sump and have a crank case that is unpressurized as the turbo or supercharger gives the backpressure to tune the pulse of the cylinder..... I wish the OB industry would look in to Diesel technology to redesign 2 strokes rather than just building them and going to four strokes.; put a turbo and a oilsump on a OPTImax or Etec and gee 4 stk emmissions and 2 stroke power and torque without the added weight of all the valve train and OIL injection parts...

1bad can you do the honors to design the system, that CAD program you got makes it look so nice:D

Just1More
12-22-2004, 06:44 AM
Just 1More: I guess the GM Detriot Engine division didnt build anything that worked .... but I guess all those 6V-71( supercharged 2 stk) (no reed valves) or 6V92 (Turbo/supercharger no reed 2 stk) on the road dont work either...... they may not be OB engines but pressurized induction in a 2 stroke works very well and with pressurized induction you can run an oil sump and have a crank case that is unpressurized as the turbo or supercharger gives the backpressure to tune the pulse of the cylinder..... I wish the OB industry would look in to Diesel technology to redesign 2 strokes rather than just building them and going to four strokes.; put a turbo and a oilsump on a OPTImax or Etec and gee 4 stk emmissions and 2 stroke power and torque without the added weight of all the valve train and OIL injection parts...

1bad can you do the honors to design the system, that CAD program you got makes it look so nice:D

No, they don't have reed valves but they do have valves.

BarryStrawn
12-22-2004, 09:48 AM
No, they don't have reed valves but they do have valves.

Yeah - Poppet valves in the cylinder heads and camshafts to drive them. Good luck to anyone trying that on a high speed two stroke.

150aintenuff
12-23-2004, 01:37 AM
Just 1 more

You said no reed valves i was living up to 1bads rep of being a SMARTA$$

just giving u crap... and I know it wouldnt work on production HIGH rpm 2 strokes but it would be cool if it would.

great adventure
12-23-2004, 01:51 AM
dear all members

I wish you happy new year and merry christmas

blkmtrfan
12-26-2004, 10:20 AM
750 hp, holy cow that would be one hell of a motor (seems kind of high though). I was thinking if they could just get 500 reliable hp, I would have to figure how to support all that weight on my boat somehow :D

yahoo
12-28-2004, 08:47 PM
500 would be sweet, how about if you could dial in the boost like on a diesel truck with a chip.

Curtis

BUSHWACKER
12-28-2004, 11:22 PM
Yo, easy on badstream, it's Christmas Christ died 4 your sins, like buying an outboard other than a MERC, lol. I had a 6-71 Littlefield on my BB CHEV,(was a 605 BANKS motor) til some scumbag in NJ stole the manifold up, rite out from the filthy cops noses that were busy hiding accross the street from the bar for DUI'S. The same motor that I rebuilt in 1988 is still in right now and still runs fine.
Hope SANTA brought you a big BLACK present to chill you out! Huh, you beieve in OMC but not SANTA? LOL

Liberator25
05-28-2005, 07:37 AM
While much of this discussion has centered around how much specific HP per liter the Verado could make, the fact is that it is easier to make more HP per liter in a small engine than a big one. With this in mind, I don't think the engineering challenge to get 400 HP out of a Verado is as daunting as getting 1500 HP out of an 8.9 liter block. But both can be done and both would be reasonably reliable. IMHO the Verado would be the more reliable of the two. I just hope Merc does it someday.

nzskiracer
11-19-2011, 07:50 AM
Only 50hp to go !

R.grover
01-03-2012, 08:44 PM
the 350s a nice motor.
Nzskiracer there is a modded on on a sonic in aux around early 400hp problem is so much weight