New 22' Pachanga with wheel bearing issues

[Raceman]

A couple of weeks ago I ran across a deal on another 22' Pachanga. I like the one I've got with the 540 a bunch, but the trouble is, I ain't willin' to turn family members loose with it for fear of em grenadin' my high dollar motor or lettin' it get away from em. This one's just a stock 454/330 with an Alpha, so I'll probably have a grenaded Alpha on my hands before the year is out, but at least I've got a Bravo setup layin' around to swap on when it does.

Anyhow....................... back to the question. The tandem axle trailer under this boat has some spindles like I've never seen before. They are hollow and by removing the cap a grease fitting in the center can be accessed which will lube the rear bearing. Since a previous owner had butchered the caps I'm not sure exactly how it's intended to lube the outer, but seems like the grease fitting protruding from the middle of the spindle would prevent the use of bearing buddies.

Here are the questions:

How was this system originally configured as far as outer caps?

The seals I got at the parts house are an EXTREMELY tight fit on the inner surface of the spindle and it took a good bit of pressure to get them on and the hubs resist rotation because of the tight seals. I loaded the void between the two lips of the seal with bearing grease. Are these seals likely to accomodate the larger than intended spindle size or will they burn themselves up?

Because of the hollow spindle, cotter pins cannot be used to retain the nuts. These axles had a flat area machined on one side of the spindle and a funky washer with a flat side to the hole and 2 ears sticking up to bend over. (looks like a mickey mouse set up that a seizing bearing on the left rotation wheels could easily sheer and cause the wheel to come off) None of the trailer supply houses around here, including the chains like Northern Tool have availability of these retainer washers. Anybody know a source?

I'm really thinking about just doing away with all this inner luber stuff and just drilling the spindles for cotter keys and sticking conventional caps on the outer. Opinions?????

[captcarb]

The picture is the sure-lube system which I have and it is excellant. Reliable tool makes it.

I think you probably have a posi-lube system and I can't find a picture. I believe the posi-lube uses a plain cap. The grease is forced through the inner bearing, back through the hub and exits through the outer bearing and the outer part of the hub. (from memory)

Many of the new high end trailers use posi-lube and the trailer manufacturers should be able to supply you with the special parts. These are excellant systems and eliminate the need for repacking.

I can't seem to locate the manufacturer of sure-lube, and I know I have seen a diagram of the grease flow.

There are other possiblities:
spindle lube
acculube

Dorsey says hello.

Jim

[kris_tx]

I think you might be able to get the parts from Champion Trailers in Lousiana. My trailer has a similar spindle design, but uses a cotter key. I've worked on one like the one you have. It has a funny looking tab lockwasher.

[2us70]

Champion Trailer calls that "Spindle Lube". I just got a second axle brake set from them and they are good to deal with. If you call them with your hub, spindle and bearing measurements they can get you the right parts.

[Raceman]

Thanks guys for the replies. I'll try Champion tomorrow. I tried the trailer manufacturer, but they're out of business and I can't identify the brand name of the axles. There's a Bulldog Trailer Parts distributor here as well as Northern Tool who stocks tons of trailer parts and neither of them can help, although the distributor was able to find me two of the four washers I need from their old parts bin, but said they no longer had a source.

Jim, the spindle I have passes the grease through the middle, then out two holes just inside the rear seal, so it doesn't service the outer bearing at all. I've always been in the habit of manually cleaning and packing mine every couple of years anyway, so I guess it isn't a big deal if I can't find the right stuff.
Tell Dorsey I said hello.

[captcarb]

I wish I could find the grease flow diagram for that system. After exiting the two holes you mentioned I think it flows through the inner bearing, then through the hub, through the outer bearing and out the outer side of the hub. If that is true, it gets both bearings. Do a search for Posi-lube and you will get a whole list of trailer manufacturers that use that system. There are many.

Jim

[Raceman]

Maybe that is the way it works. If so, it poses a question to what I've heard for years is a potential problem with use, or rather misuse of bearing buddies: I've heard people alledge that filling a hub completely full of grease causes it to not only maintain heat, but the expansion with no place to go will cause seal failure. Although I don't have personal experience with it, it sounds logical. If the holes to the rear force the hub full to pressure lube the outer bearing, it doesn't seem as though there's any place for expansion and it'd have to either force grease by the rear seal or blow the cap off the outer. One old marine dealer here was adamant that bearing buddies caused more problems than they cure for those reasons, although there is a spring loaded reservoir of sorts in the system.

I think this'd be a good project for Techno to design a new system for.

[captcarb]

The new system has already been designed. Check out the diagram I posted above. The sure lube system flows the grease in the opposite direction. It exits through the hollow spindle to the inner side. The passage is long enough that reverse flow is not a problem and the hub is not pressurized because the passage is always open.

I have a trailer here that is 14 years old and has at least 50,000 miles on it. It has seen a lot of highway miles over the years. I took it apart once and it was perfect, so I add grease occasionally and change it once a year by pumping it in until it flows new grease out the exit hole. I do check the end play yearly and have adjusted it once. I have had no bearing failures, no grease in the brakes, no problems.

Check it out. (http://www.reliabletool.com/)

Jim

[Techno]

I think the problem with bearing buddies is -is people think they grease the wheels, they don't. All they do is keep water from getting sucked in when your hot bearings are dumped in cold water and everything contracts.

The seals aren't pressure perfect and any over pressure or under pressure lets grease out or water in. They are actually dust seals.

[Raceman]

Jim, that looks like a really good system. I'd already studied the diagram but didn't realize the hole through the axle represented an exit. Is it capped off, vented, or just opened. I was wondering about water injestion through that end when it's submerged.

[captcarb]

The hole is open all the time, so there is no chance for a pressure build up. It is also full of grease, so no water can get in. Since it is full of grease there is not much chance for contraction when it is cooled quickly. I have towed that boat at high speed and pulled into the launch and put it in immediately. No problems. If you have a trailer that gets a lot of highway miles, you could retrofit with a Reliable Tool axle. They are not that expensive.

I just talked to Dorsey. If you get a chance give him a call, I'm sure he would enjoy hearing from you. 352 669 2203

Jim

[nelsoncat]

around here we call them Dexterlube axles. They are really popular on snowmobile trailers. I have 2 two place snowmobile trailers with them. Actually the Hustler trailer under my STV has the same axles. The idea is to grease the inner bearing and then force grease out the front. Does yours have a little rubber cap that comes off first? I think they are a good system!

Craig

[captcarb]

The sure lube system flows the grease in the opposite direction. It enters through a fitting on the cap, flows through the outer bearing, then the hub, then the inner bearing. It exits through the hollow spindle to the inner side. The passage is long enough that reverse flow is not a problem and the hub is not pressurized because the passage is always open. It is basically just a plain spindle locked by a cotter pin with two holes drilled on the inner side and a special seal, and a grease fitting on a recessed cap.

see picture (www.reliabletool.com/products/slgrease.htm)

Jim

[WILDMAN]

Raceman, how fast have you had the 540 powered Pachanga?

[nelsoncat]

Guess I should have looked at the picture first. Ours are different. The axle is drilled and tapped and the grease fitting is threaded into the end of the axle. Now I'm not sure what the STV trailer has. I just saw the grease fitting and knew it wasn't a bearing buddy and assumed it was a dexterlube. Time for further investigation!!!
Craig

[kris_tx]

My hubs are like the spindle lube hubs. They work great. I think my spindles are made by unique functional products(the company that makes bearing buddies).

[Raceman]

Randy, the Pachanga with the 540 shows 96 on the speedo, (happiness meter) which I prefer to use to thrill the lake neighbors, but it only showed 86 or 87 when we shot it with my Stalker several years ago. With the Blackhawk it runs flatter than with the old Bravo, but the handling is great and it's several MPH faster than with the Bravo totin' the bow which requires more driving and of course isn't as safe. The Blackhawk was put on the stock Bravo gimble, so the stock X dimension actually rasied the propshaft about 7 inches from the stock Bravo, and with the Pachanga not having a notched pad it looks on the trailer like it wouldn't work. It also roosters real bad at low and mid speeds, but there's no fanning or display of excessive slip on the tach. It has 31 pitch wheels and 1.5 gears. It's a better all around recreational boat with the Bravo, and I may put one back on for the rest of the season since there aren't any fast stern drives around here to play with.

[Psyco]

If you need help getting the parts,call me at work and I'll walk ya thru it. More than likely you have SureLube spindles. Dexter axle use these. Get me the ID and OD on the seals. You may have the funky ones. Caps should be no problem. Any trailer dealer who deals with Haulmark,Pace,or Wells Cargo should have replacements.

Steve @ Central Hitch & Equipment 225-295-7062

[Firestarter]

Raceman, I finally got our P-22 in the water this weekend. It has got to be one of the nicest driving boats I have been in. It had been years since I had driven one, am I pleased!. The Imco drive and steering is on it, but it still has the 330 in it. I ran out of time to finish it, and I was getting pressured to get it in the water. It runs about 65 at is sits........ I am hoping for 20 more.

RT

[rpm racing]

wow Rob, I can't beleive you got that Pachanga back together and on the water that fast!! I was on the water over in your area on Friday night and was hoping to see you out in the challenger. I saw the red and white Tuff boat with a race hatch and 225 Bomb. HO at a dock in the Joe river, I did not have time to stop and talk, I had to get up to Rocky crest for some golf. I finally got the 18 classic picked up on friday night and put 12 hours on it the first weekend! Do you know anything about the blue challenger with twin yamaha 225's at Gordon bay it has been there is storage for years?

[Firestarter]

When I actually get motivated I get stuff done..... weird eh.

That Challeger was Ron Chovettis boat. Lots of good hardware on it. Runs about 82 mph....... I can dust it!. I think it is for sale, but the guy wants big $$$$.... might be worth it.

Nice week end for a boat ride, I wish I had time to get out. I ran my Challenger for about 5 min, the Pachanga for maybe 20 min, and the Tuff for about 10 min........ the rest of the time I was working between the River Rocket the SRV and the Velocity.

RT

[rpm racing]

Is that one of Mark's boats or did he sell a tuff to someone up here? Did you get any STVs in the water? Maybe next firday night or saturday morn I will come buy, I would like to see the progress on the SRV, that is a very cool boat. How did the tuff run with the 225 HO, I hear those motors are amazing on fuel. Lastly, yes the guy wants huge money for that challenger, nice boat but what a waste of money for someone who put that all together?

[Firestarter]

RPM, That challenger is pretty cool. It could be made to go faster, the motors are way to low. I will eat rough water for breakfast.

The Tuff is Marks demo boat for the year. It runs 86mph on GPS with that 225 ho..........and doesn't burn any gas. No STV's this weekend.

RT

[Raceman]

Rob, we need to see some pictures of the rear of the Pachanga with the steering and Imco drive. One of those factory Mercury standoff boxes with the internal steering for the Bravo was on E bay brand new but missing a few pieces several months ago. I think it's just what the Blackhawk needs on one of these boats and I wish I'd bought it.

I think you're gonna need to find an extra 250 to 300 Horsepower somewhere if you're lookin' for another 20 MPH.

Skip, if Sicko can't put me on the parts I'll probably end up doing that because I don't like the way the nut is retained anyway. It looks like a real easy way to lose a wheel to me.

[Firestarter]

Yup, well a 540 should do it, nice and simple, Edelbrock rec port aluminum heads, Crane 731 Hyd roller cam. Edelbrock Victor intake, 930 holley and 9:1 compression should make about 575-600 hp.

I don't have any pictures of the transom, I will take some. I also think that the stand off box would be awsome. Seeing as I already have the steering and drive, to add a box is easy now. The merc ITS system would be cleaner, but they want an arm and a leg for it. I do find that the boat requires about 1/2 trim to carry the bow. That might be fixed with more power..... I am also going to try a stock lower unit.


RT

[Psyco]

That's the house #. My work # is 225-752-7514.:rolleyes: Call me ifn ya ain't gottum yet.

[Balzy]

and I love it. Never had a problem. And Raceman, you know how much I trailer !!!!!!!!! I changed out the bearing last winter for the first time. Got one side changed and cleaned up the old bearing and saw I wouldn't have needed to do anything. I just figured that 13 or 14 years and it was about time. I didn't even do the other side. Threw the bearings and seals in the shop as spares. I maintain mine just like captcarb. Shoot em now and then until grease comes out the back. A couple times a years I put the pneumatic gun on em and pump em till I get fresh grease. If any of you find a trailer with the sure-lube system, you will love it.