Help with CCC set up

[DRAGIN FLY]

I am setting up my boat with a CCC and need someone that has ran these motors before mostly I need a base line tune up and any other info Please this was O'Berry's Marine old race motor I is Avgas Ok ?????? Thanks

[Mark75H]

8:1 compression ratio, AV gas is more than OK.

[racer]

Av and 26 degrees, will live at 7500. They were raced at 7200 marathon and 76+ on short cources. Have turned one well over 8

[DRAGIN FLY]

Thanks for the reply Iwill be trying it out soon

[TTriton]

I know this might be a dumb question but what is a CCC I've seen this mentioned many times and I thought that it had somthing to do with the OMC v-8.. But I'm just another merc guy and when it comes to OMC all I know is that the new ones should come with a free fire extinguisher.

[DRAGIN FLY]

CCC 2.4 12 pack carbs, dri exhaust ,light flywheel, plus other stuff this one shoots fire you don't want to stand behind it !

[TTriton]

cool looking motor. But I've never seen one down here in the keys.. Good luck setting it up..

[Laker]

YES YES
Direct from the factory in milwaukee those motors were known to pull 290-305 hp. Very nicely built motors.. balanced perfectly, flowed excelent and still were reliable...
Not sure why omc didnt apply the race tech to the production motors..... well actually I think I do but...
They were art work and would out run anything in those days and are still Competitive today but just to rare for anyone to build right and run correctly.
OMC Racing and Performance NEEDS to happen!!
Sorry just ranting again....

[TTriton]

I sure it will happen.. I might be a merc guy but I realize the bomberdier is a strong force in other racing and the compitition can only make merc better. I really hope it does. It will be a strainge sight to see as many OMC as merc in a formula 1 races.

[Laker]

Will bring me back to the days when The Johnsons , mercs, and Evinrudes were making noise on the same course. Just a wonderfull time that was. The issue that has alwasy been out their is that once a good class gets going... somehow the Bureaucrats change things!!! THEY Totally killed Sport V class .. they can argue that it was for the better of the sport but when they wave their hand (change the rules of one of the most popular classes) and then eveny one quits........ HELLO???
The new OMC can really be a champion in the sport but I fear the EPA and others are going to try to make it impossible for anyone to have fun and build a good cheap strong running performance boat.... :mad:

[racer]

The triple c was a 149.4 cubic inch engine which is 2.45 litre, 285 t0 290 was a more acurate power as they did not have the even fire crank but did have a harmonic balancer on the bottom. The factory version also did not have finger ports they came along in the days of modvp.

[Robbie B]

Sorry to ask a dumb question but, how are finger ports configured in a crossflow, thought they were a looper thing??
Not much room left in the cyl wall for extra ports?? Just about to get my crossflow bored and finished as per your recomendation, so if finger ports are an option may be I should add them first?? Always looking for that bit extra!!! Just wondering?????

Thanks

[Laker]

yepper... perhaps OMC pushed the numbes a bit but John Janacky of DAH Propellers ran the Mod U Johnson in the late 70s and was told by OMC that his motor was 305 hp.... My father worked across the street from Evinrude at eaton corp on 27th st in Milwaukee and would visit the plant every week. He was able to see an number of special motors and brought me proofs (printed proofs) of the soon to be new V6 outboard in 1975... a full year before they were actually built for the public.. From watching the tunnel boat racing in the 70s I would say the omc motors did have the big end HP over the merc counterparts but the OMCs had a hard time lighing off the dock and slower off the pins... Top end yes but the old motors didnt seem to have any bottom end.. ooh do they sound mean tho.!!!!:D

[racer]

finger ports are put between the intake and exhaust ports, and a corressponding hole in the piston above the wrist pin.

[Robbie B]

If the finger ports are behind the ear of piston, what prevents the ring ends from snagging the port or are they biased toward the transfer ports just beside the ring gap??? They must be quite narrow if this is the case? Is the timing height the same as the transfer ports?? Sorry about all the questions but you have got me all excited about some more HP or is it more torque?? Keen to do it if it is going to be a significant improvement.

Thanks

Dragin Fly - What pistons you using?? If genuine CCC forged pistons, what rings are you using on them?? I ran CCC pistons until the ring supply dried up, now using wiseco's.

Interested in how it all turns out, keep us posted. :cool:

[Raceman]

Uhhhh Laker, I don't remember it exactly that way. In the days of the first V6 factory wars (starting in 75) I think I went to the APBA nationals every year for 5 or 6 straight and I assure you that the Mercs were more than competitive. I'm not at all sure about that horsepower thing either. The races were real competive and Merc was first only running 2 liters/carbs. Merc and OMC both showed up at St. Louis with Bendix injectors on their respective engines a year or so later. I'd have to say that Merc won more than OMC did but don't recall exact numbers and certainly either one was capable of winning on a given day. Remember, the CCC/RS did still rely on crossflow technology while the Mercs were loopers, a big advantage.

I think an honest 250 or 260 would've been a more realistic claim for the CCC/RS. Another reason I've always believed this was the kilo's I used to run. Wayne Weeks ran a comp Vector/CCC and had an unlimited budget. The first year I tried was in a 15 Allison with a 1750XS which was basically a stock 175 powerhead with plastic reeds, alum. flywheel, and cut heads on a champ housing. He was only about 3 or 4 MPH faster and set the world record. In subsequent years, I moved up to a 2.4 powerhead and he made some changes and the record went up into the teens and the gap narrowed between our two boats. The last year I ran it, he was only about 1 MPH faster and I don't think my motors ever approached high 2's in terms of horsepower and don't think his did either. His dad would run within several boatlengths of him at the drags with a mod. 235 with a big gearcase and 20" mid.

Also remember that most of the time they were talkin' powerhead and gross horsepower then and we generally think in terms now of propshaft and net.

[DRAGIN FLY]

The piston are stock I am not sure what the part # is but I had to order 12 sets to get 12 thin rings I can check for you if you want I was told 290hp out of the box. This motor was done by Stoker back in the race days I have never had it on a dyno but one look in side this one and you will know its not stock. The only problem O'Berry had was keeping it right side up when running down the feild after slow starts, top end this motor could run by anything out there but just like Laker said it was hard getting going Thanks !

[racer]

The ring tips slide over the finger ports, make sure they have a good radious and you will be fine. They are half inch wide. The old ccc pistons could also be run with production bottom rings, but you need two sets for each piston. I will check monday to see if I still have any.

Robbie,

Is yours a true ccc (149) OR A 160 BLOCK WITH A CCC front half?

[Robbie B]

Block is a 149 cu in 235 HP ( 79 ) Not running CCC front half as It was not practical to lay it over and still have room to get the carbs fitted with the X carb set up, so using original front half with custom manifold. CCC pistons been unavailable in this part of the world for a number of years now, had heard that you could run stock lower rings in both slots. How long do they last?? No CCC's still running that I know of but there were quiet a number 10 years back.Still a little confused re finger ports, do they discharge over the piston ear, if so is the timing edge higher than the other tranfer ports??? :confused:

[racer]

Yes over the piston edge (cut 030 off edge) and timing same as the other intakes.

Dragon,
Is your engine a true 149 ccc or a converted 160

[DRAGIN FLY]

yes mine is a 149 ci. true CCC

[Robbie B]

I think I got it clear in my head. still a couple of queries though. Have attached a sketch of how I think the finger ports are configured. Ports are 1/2" wide by 1/8" deep, timing same as transfer port, boost ports in piston midway between ring and pin, 1/2"?? , .030 off side of piston ears, is that off the angled face of the ear as well? Is the top of the new port angled like a looper port or is it just radiused? Sorry to keep asking but don't want to stuff it up. Starting to run very short of time to do this work, might have to leave it to next winter yet.
Thanks so much for your assistance, living on the other side of the world means doing a lot of things by remote control.

Cheers

[racer]

Just off the ear with the 030 and angled like a looper. This will help torque and help with burning this edge of the piston. You can also cut half of the width at the end only on the intake side to open up the finger, this helps a little more but machining this part of the piston takes a rotary table and cutter with the same radius as the piston.

[JTS Racing]

How much HP do ya think the CCC/RS lower unit will handle?? I bought a display mid and lower a couple years ago,,,the lower unit had never had oil in it,,,still had factory assembly grease. Made an adapter to run a V6 or V4 looper on it. Mainly drag with the engine on alky but started playing with NOS. Now this should make some of the collectors frown....going to cut the skeg off the lower for next season as for any hydro hull running faster than 9's in the brackets has to have the engine locked and steering done with a rudder.....

Since it was designed with the crossflow in mind....How long ya think it will last against a wild looper on tha juice????

[dan agnew]

What boat you running do you need hull engine help or internal help? I had 0ne we ran on a brouton tunnel then moved it over to a 18 critchfield cabover v hull the one like lee in fla is trying to set up now. We were southern outboard unlimited v nat champs 3 years. when we went to noa races and had to race starters
[lemans starts] the ccc did not like to leave the beach and you had to run the whole field down. tough to do!!! on clock starts could win as well as any one else.
My engine was finger ported with the ports cut off the end of the intake ports. almost at top and bottom of cylinders. the piston
ports were drilled above the wrist pin on an angle. We had no
piston failures.would turn 18 in prop 8000 to 8300 short cource. It was my understanding that the ccc stood for roman numeral
hp rating. it was a cool engine but not a 300 motor
Thanks for the memories
Danny

[racer]

Low was plenty durable with the crossflow on it but with a wild looper its a matter of time before that 15-17 unloads. The unit is basically the same internally as the latter SST100 unit.

[DRAGIN FLY]

do you have a extra adapter for the looper > CCC set up also do you still want my akly. carbs. also have some parts from the Hess motor that I am not going to run you might want to see the port work on this one ?

[DRAGIN FLY]

Thanks for the info I am going to try it on a J&B mod vp 20 light boat if that wont work maybe on a Mirage 18 or if I feel A little crazy I'll put one of my 15 Allison's together also looking for any parts I can find CCC

[Laker]

I remeber seeing a CCC gearcase all ready to go , sitting on the rack at BakerMarine.
Can contact them throught ScarryFast.com

[DRAGIN FLY]

Thanks I have 2 ccc gearcases and 6 props but a 3 rd gearcase would be nice I'll call them

[dan agnew]

are both of them 15 17?
Danny

[Mark75H]

What are those gear cases like internally? Do they have the sliding gear on the prop shaft like the V-4 cases?

[racer]

Yes they are both 15-17. Twin pinion. Same concept as the old super strangler lower unit.

[dan agnew]

never went into one Nydahl had a neighbor that repaired all my omc l/units. good job and affordable but yes it had a bull gear dual shaft setup. i only broke one ccc gear case in 4.5 yrs of bouy racing both v & t hulls. v4 l/units held up fine until we put v6 power heads o top of kr towers.
thanks
danny

[DRAGIN FLY]

I can't find anyone that has been in side one are even anyone that has ever seen one here in southwest Florida mine pressure and vac test good .

[JTS Racing]

Sent you an email....Did you get it?