Diffrent between US n European CAT hulls?

[wdac]

Hello!

i have to say that my spelling english arn´t that good..

But i have this quastion, you call you boat´s CATs and have 3 hull´s... that´s not an CAT.. a CAT have 2 hull´s only... and why do you want 3 hull´s?? dont you want an big nice airpillo to ride on?? we want in sweden... ore is it for safety that you guy´s the 3 hull in the middel..

American hull
http://www.screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/modified_sportmaster_test/images/helmut%202.jpg

European hull
http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17608664/boat/1maali1.jpg
http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17608664/boat/1maali2.jpg

plz help me understand this diffrents? :)


sorry for my bad engslish

[capnzee]

You are correct. When referring to a Cat, we are usually speaking of a two hulled boat also. We also call them tunnel hulls. The boat you have pictured is not a true cat nor is it a true tunnel (STV) hull, it is a highly modified V Bottom. In the "old days" of racing, we used to run V-bottom boats that were generally production hulls. Some of the manufacturers found they could pack air under the hulls and get more speed so they introduced the modified V bottom production hull. In the early days, these boats were much faster than the standard v's, and the class of racing became known as the MOD V-P ( modified V, Production class). This boat had a center pad, lower than the runners on either side and a tunnel on each side of the center pad. Later, a pad was added to the true V-Bottoms and they became faster so that today there are folks that prefer a V-bottom with a pad such as the Allison, and some folks prefer modified V-bottom such as the STV which you have shown. True tunnels are the boats much like the snow-bound boat that you have pictured above. We race them in classes called Tunnel classes and they have no center running pad. Generally, the term Catamaran or Cat is reserved for the larger ocean racing boats or two hulled sailing boats. Any way, there will probably be many discussions to follow this one however I did the best I could. Hope you can understand it. Capnzee

[capnzee]

Just an added note. It would appear that you have a huge amount of lift built into that Sno-bound ("cat") tunnel boat of yours. It also doesn't look like you have had an engine on the back of it. Is it a winter project waiting for warm weather? I imagine you have seen this boat or one just like it run in the past. How does it perform? What does it weigh? How much Horsepower are you planning? Any additional set-back planned?
Don't blow over! Capnzee

[CUDA]

Looks like a serious offshore boat. Lets face it our boats are more of a river boat than true offshore deep water type.

[yachter55]

that is one bad as cat.tell us more about it as im lookong for a ruff water boat.do they make that in a 4 seater?how small do they go 16 foot?who makes it? send us more pics as im sure all of us are interested in a boat that good looking.

[JanR]

That is a 21 ft finnish ArgoCat, belonged to a finnish driver racing in UIM offshore 2 liter. Powered by a Mercury XR2. Capable of 95+ MPH with crew of two. More about Argos on http://user.sgic.fi/~argo/

JanR

[mercury]

wdac, ever herd of SKATER?

[capnzee]

95 miles per hour or Kilometers per hour with a 2.0 liter for power, with two people, with 21 feet, made for ocean racing???????????????If that is mph every swing'n dick in the country is going to want one!!!!!!!!Capnzee

[Marcus]

That Argo 21 was my old boat we raced in 2001.
The speed Jan R wrote about is more like "guaranteed" with 2.0L power.
In november 2001 when the air and water was cold we reached 103 mph in optimum conditions.

We raced in 99 a similar boat in the national 3 litre class with a 2.5 Efi.Top speed reached was 117 mph.That was fun when you had enough power to move the boat.The 2.0L is a bit lazy with only approx 220 hp.
Minimum weight after finish is about 800 kg without crew.(1760 lbs I think)
Our sea isn`t like your ocean.The gulf of Finland is more like a very big lake.About 300 miles long and 100 wide.We don`t really get those long big swells you have on your ocean.

Marcus :-)

[capnzee]

If your numbers are correct, I will dump my idea for an STV and go ARGUS. Before jumping off the bridge however, you are going to have to show me some facts. I have a hard time believing a 21 ft tunnel weighing 1700 lbs can run 117 mph with a 2.5 (I would assume Mercury), outboard, even if you are pulling 280 HP out of it I will say that I and others have been very surprised at the speeds you guys have gotten out of your "machines" in the past, so maybe??
Capnzee

[LJL]

You want some kind of proof? I can't give you any proof on that 117mph. Wasn't it with the 24' Argo cat, Marcus? I don't doubt you could run even faster, if you ordered an Argo built specifically for a 2.5 EFI and with the latest updates. That 24' was still a 2 litre boat with a 2.5 EFI.

But +100mph speeds with an Argo cat and a 2 litre XR2 can be proved quite easily. The UIM Class III Offshore 2 litre world record is Peter Hafström's 98,70mph (158,84km/h). UIM world records are two-way average speeds, just like official APBA records. On the better one.way run Hafström achived speed of 102,8 mph (165,4km/h). Hafström's Argo was a 22' as far as I know. You can check Hafström's record from UIM's official website: http://www.uimpowerboating.com/records/world_records_category.htm The speeds of each of Hafström's runs you can see here: http://www.xorc.nu/resultat/rek98.htm

Marcus pointed out a very good point. These top speeds are achieved only by the best racers with the best equipment. Marcus is a "heavy weight" with several UIM Championships under his belt, so he has act together and knows what he's talking about. The 95mph is close to what's reasonably easy to achieve, with good setup and 2 litre XR2. Another point, which no-one has mentioned yet, is that the Scandinavian UIM Offshore cats like Argos are very much top speed boats. To achieve those speeds you'll have to run a big pitch, and the acceleration will suffer considerably.

My $.02

LJL

[capnzee]

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about a 1700 lb Argus with a 2.5 Liter merc on the tail. The only UIM record I know about was set in 1998 or thereabouts in a Fabritius and it was indeed 98.7 MPH. But I must ask you, is the Fabritius the same boat as the 1700 lb. Argus that was pictured on the original thread? If it is, then it is very remarkable indeed. I sure don't want to get into a contest on who is fastest, I just figured that if I get a good STV or Allison and hang a 260 Merc on the back of it, I would be happy with 100MPH. (The STV/Allison weighs under 1000lbs.) I am really not interested in acceleration. The Argus could be what a lot of us would like in a fast, safe, boat that runs well over 100 mph with a 2.5 Merc on the tail and 2 people on board. I tried their web site but could not get any real information from it, such as cost, lengths, weights, recommended horse power etc. I know there are others that share my interest in this boat based on what you have told us. We often lose a lot in interpretation when speaking different languages and often lose the same amount when going back and forth in the manner in which we are. Please don't think that I questioned your honesty or the merits of the Argus Boat people. It is indeed a beautiful boat and looks to be very fast... ////////Capnzee

[Techno]

Another thing the center pod does is float the boat better so it gets out of the hole faster than one without it.

Capnzee depending on what weight your talking about.
Mine is 540 bare and maybe 1200 rigged. Still have to find out.
Normal STVs are about 750lbs but not sure how bare that is and around 1500 or 1700 rigged. I think the high number is with a driver???

[capnzee]

Hello techno, Don't misunderstand, I have a pretty good idea of what the STV's and Allison's weigh depending on the year, who built them and who/what they were built for. The Argon that I was referring to was, I assume, 1700 lbs the way it sat on the trailer, plus engine, fuel, crew etc. That is why I was so surprised at the 117 mph speed that was posted. The Argon is an offshore racer, built for "heavy" water, I assume. Would not want to take an Allison or STV off shore out here!
Anyway, if they get the kind of speeds they are talking about with a 260 Merc, it is certainly of interest. Capnzee

[LJL]

Captnzee,

Argo and Fabritius is the same thing. Fabritius is the name of the brothers who manufactures the Argo boats.

Lauri

[Marcus]

Capnzee
The weight (1700 lbs) is rigged with engine.The bear hull is approx. 900 lbs.

Marcus:)

[wdac]

Originally posted by capnzee
Just an added note. It would appear that you have a huge amount of lift built into that Sno-bound ("cat") tunnel boat of yours. It also doesn't look like you have had an engine on the back of it. Is it a winter project waiting for warm weather? I imagine you have seen this boat or one just like it run in the past. How does it perform? What does it weigh? How much Horsepower are you planning? Any additional set-back planned?
Don't blow over! Capnzee

Well we call them "offshore One" the big ones
i have been racing sens i was 12 (23 at the time) this is an (its not mine at the pic) cat "Argo Cat" it´s a finnish boat, we have a swedish cat to "Twister" but i dont like the Twister its to light and low, so i prefer to the Argo Cat.. then its build it will be an Mercury XR2 2.0L enginen an the boat have to weigh minimum 900 kilo whit the M- XR2 and all safty stuff an **** that we must have onboard... :)

i had an Cat (Mölgard) that was 10foot whit an Yamaha 15Hp and did 45 knot´s i will post a pic on it then i hade taken a digital pic on the picture in the photo album :) i hade that cat then i was racing at 12 to 14 years old :)

[wdac]

boys boys boys mph ARENT the same as KPH swedish and finnish have KPH NOT MPH (Miles per H) KPM (Kilometer per H)

so thats should be better numbers :)

[capnzee]

Thank you for explaining the difference between mph and Km/ph to your boys .I think the relationship is roughly 5 : 8. I have been trying to make that point without "ruffling feathers" or accusing them of stretching the speed a bit, but their speeds did sound awfully good? capnzee

[capnzee]

Thank you for explaining the difference between mph and Km/ph to your boys .I think the relationship is roughly 5 : 8. I have been trying to make that point without "ruffling feathers" or accusing them of stretching the speed a bit, but their speeds did sound awfully good? capnzee

[wdac]

Originally posted by capnzee
Thank you for explaining the difference between mph and Km/ph to your boys .I think the relationship is roughly 5 : 8. I have been trying to make that point without "ruffling feathers" or accusing them of stretching the speed a bit, but their speeds did sound awfully good? capnzee

the argo cat´s are awfully fast ;) but not that fast why dont you people´s use knot´s? it´s the same speed over the world and we are talking sea stuff so knot´s should be used :)

my dad was racing at the 80´s in a small LustCat whit an 80´s Mercury, i think the horse power was about 140 150 on the 2L engien then.. and my dad had a realy HEAVY cat but they had a top speed about 80knot´s... i think it was 86 ore 87 they got the speed record for offshore 2L..

[Marcus]

Wdac
The Twister cats are also made in Finland....:)

[wdac]

Originally posted by Marcus
Wdac
The Twister cats are also made in Finland....:)

thats funny.. a friend to my dad have the forms i sweden and make them i sweden, well he and the finnish duds mabe working togehter, well thats why i thout it was an swedish form..

do you know LustCat thats a REAL swedish cat ;) it´s from Norrtelje i sweden ;) (EuroCat / LustCat) its the name today

[Marcus]

Do you mean the 20 and 24 ft Twister cats?As far as I know they should be pure finnsih but maybe somebody is license producing them in sweden.
I know the Lustcat/Eurocat is all swedish :) They are nice too.

[Marcus]

The Twisters are made by the Luukila brothers in Kangasala,Finland.
Are we talking about the same boats?

[wdac]

it hase to be that he got licens to make some twisters a year..

this is the boat i thinking about..
http://w1.176.telia.com/~u17608664/boat/C-47-1.JPG

[Alan Power]

Marcus and wdac; Nice boats the boat above looks like an argo, twister, is this another boat? There seems to be a good turnout in class 3 2lt. in northern europe. I would love to race this class but racing in the UK and Ireland is in a bad way. maybe a 6-8 boat start and about 8 races a year all in the uk. Seems everyone has gone racing fourstrokes in the honda class...:rolleyes: :confused:
Thats why I bought the V-king, something to play with untill we can get our act together.

I saw in Espen's video in the download section you guys race a 2.5lt class, is this a national class? Looks like fun, I always thought 2lt should be moved up to 2.5lt, would make it a little more interesting.

Anyone that hasn't seen these guys race should check out their video......... awsome!!!

Video..........

http://www.screamandfly.com/home/videos/holmestrand_norway/holmstrand_offshore.mpg

Alan

[wdac]

another Twister Cat :)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rusetti/Kalkkiranta_2003_8.jpg




Offshore 2.0L and 2.5L are international Classes, i know that my dad was racing in England in the 80´s and erly 90´s

[Marcus]

Alan

The red boat c- 47 (UIM 2 Litre class) is a swedish Eurocat,I think it is a 23 or 24 ft.
The white boat earlier in this thread is a finnish 21ft Argo cat.
The yellow B -13 is a finnish 20 ft Twister cat.They are used in the UIM 1.3 L class( B-letter)
The 2.5 L class is Not international.The Only international offshore classes driven in the Uim are ;1.3L , 2L , 4L(D-letter) , 6 L.(S-letter,qiute the same as the Us stock offshore class used to be)

Each country can then have their own national classes and the 2.5 L (more usually called 3L because the most v-6 engines can then participate) are on national basis only.
I havent seen Espens video but I assume it is filmed in Norway.They have their own national 2.5 or 3L(I don`t know what they call it) as we do in Finland.Our class rules are the same as in 2L but you can hang a 3L powerplant in the rear of your boat.As the 2.5L Mercury efi is the most racing and powerfull thats probably why it is the most common then.
The basic idea with the 3L class in Finland has been that as many as possible could participate in the races.Since the engine blueprinting rules change every now and then the old race engines become unusable if you dont have a class where you can run an engine that doesnt have to comply with any blueprinting rules.

Alan,I`m with you about the 2.5L vs. 2L class.It would be MUCH more interesting and more speed too....

Marcus

[wdac]

the red C cat are the same as the yellow B cat only size are diffrent...

[Marcus]

Nope
The red c-cat is not the same as the smaller.The red one is a Eurocat and the yellow one is a Twister....
It is actually 23ft and was driven by swedish Mårten Levin in 1999
They aren`t even made in the same country or even by the same builder....



eurocat (http://www.janssonsmobilkranar.se/eurocat/)

Wanna bet?
:D

just so you don`t loose your money you could check the Eurocat website first....

[Trikki1010]

Three strikes wdac:eek:

Hey Marcus,

What is the Hull pricing on the 17'/21' etc.... curiosity;)

[wdac]

Originally posted by Marcus
Nope
The red c-cat is not the same as the smaller.The red one is a Eurocat and the yellow one is a Twister....
It is actually 23ft and was driven by swedish Mårten Levin in 1999
They aren`t even made in the same country or even by the same builder....



eurocat (http://www.janssonsmobilkranar.se/eurocat/)

Wanna bet?
:D

just so you don`t loose your money you could check the Eurocat website first....

no i dont wanna bet.. ok... i hade wrong but it looks pritty the same on the pics... but its pics and not the real thing.. you see i have my own euro cat :) and i dont think the red cat are like my ore the els cats the boys cats in RBR (Roslagens Boat Racing)... but i hade made a big misstake :confused: :) i know who builds the Euro Cats :) one of my dads best friends... well **** the same :)

[eMotiondriver]

100 KPH= 60 MPH

Take 45 Knots and X by .1.5 to equal MPH

45 Knots = 51.75 MPH

Hope this helps:)

[MikeyFIN]

Actually
100Kp/h=62,14Mp/h=54 Knots.

[jhwh]

twister (finnish)
eurocat (finnish)
argo (finnish
sportcat / hydrocat (norwegian)

search for all thoose reveals some nice european cats.

with that said, the cat guys are nuts. :)

[eMotiondriver]

100 KPH= 60 MPH

Take 45 Knots and X by .1.5 to equal MPH

45 Knots = 51.75 MPH

Hope this helps:)


Sorry 1.15 x knots for mph....

[Markus]

eurocat (finnish)


Swedish

[MikeyFIN]

twister (finnish)
eurocat (finnish)
argo (finnish
sportcat / hydrocat (norwegian)

search for all thoose reveals some nice european cats.

with that said, the cat guys are nuts. :)

Markus is right Eurocat is Swedish.
An no cat guys over here ain´t nuts..they just like to take some risks.
PS looking for an 21 up Argocat..

[jhwh]

PS looking for an 21 up Argocat..
http://www.svera.org/torget/detail.asp?ID=2034

this one was just put out for sale 150k sek

[MikeyFIN]

Thanks I think the owner has contacted me already..haven´t had any business up to Uppsala yet..only Skåne as we speak.
150K Swedish Pesetas was the original asking price.

[MikeyFIN]

Sorry 1.15 x knots for mph....
Actually 45kts=51.78503mph=> rounded right with two decimals is 51.79