Carbon fiber sheets for reed valves

[Mark75H]

I found a supplier of carbon fiber sheets in .020" and .013" .....
just right for cutting out reed valves

The thing that I kinda don't like is that they only ship by UPS and
have a $9 minimum shipping fee..... ridiculous for something
that fits in a regular envelope.

If anyone wants to go in on a few sheets or fractions, let me know here.

Thickness___Dimensions___Price (shipping not included)
0.013” ______11” x 8”......$12.95
0.013” ______11” x 16”....$24.95
0.013” ______11” x 32”....$46.95
0.020” ______11” x 8”..... $13.95
0.020” ______11” x 16”....$26.95
0.020” ______11” x 32”....$50.95

.020" seems to be about as stiff as regular steel reeds, .013"
is a lot more flexible .... I would not put .013" in an old internal
reed block Merc except for actual heat racing.

One third of a 11 x 8 could be cut off and mailed in a regular #10
envelope for 37¢ .....
3 ½" x 8" x .013" would be $7.75 including shipping ....
3 ½" x 8" x .020" would be $8.05 including shipping ....
(instead of $110 for the finished reeds from Boysen)

I'm guessing that full 11 x 8 sheets could be mailed for $1 over whatever the breakdown is on the shipping .... if 2 people go in
.020 x 11 x 8 would be $19.50 instead of $23 .............
... if 3 people go in
.020 x 11 x 8 would be $17.00

If you don't mind being raked for the shipping you can just go here and buy it from them: http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_carbonfiber.html

I can do a tutorial on cutting and finishing fiberglass and carbon fiber reeds if anyone buys any .... its not difficult at all:)

[Bruster]

are you cutting this?

[Mark75H]

The same way you cut fiberglass reeds ..... scissors.

If you've heard it is too hard to cut .... you've heard wrong.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about carbon fiber. It
actually cuts a little easier than fiberglass because it is a little
more brittle.

Like I said, I'll post a tutorial if anyone is interested.

I cut out a set of reeds for my Mark75 race motor last night ...
that's right 24 reeds and the scissors are still useable

[wing nut]

Originally posted by Mark75H
The same way you cut fiberglass reeds ..... scissors.

If you've heard it is too hard to cut .... you've heard wrong.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about carbon fiber. It
actually cuts a little easier than fiberglass because it is a little
more brittle.

Like I said, I'll post a tutorial if anyone is interested.

I cut out a set of reeds for my Mark75 race motor last night ...
that's right 24 reeds and the scissors are still useable

im interested if you can post a tutorial, or pics at least. im guessing you use the curved hobby scissors?

scott

[Dave S]

Com'on Sam, I know who realy did you reeds. That poor little girl, she just wants to make paper Dolls and you got her making reeds. :rolleyes:

[Mark75H]

Ssshhhhhhhhh! Don't give away my secrets, Dave .... she thinks they are little houses with curved roofs .....

[Dennis Stevenson 1]

Which one's did you use? Standard black twill-weave or Hexcel Texalium/Carbon fiber hybrid?

[David_L6]

Sam,

Have you ever tried the 44XS reeds?

[crazy horse]

I would think the reeds for a 99.8 inline would be hard to cut? If I though I could cut a nice set I'd try them in my inline for kicks :rolleyes: .

[Mark75H]

crazy horse I can send you a small sample piece to try ... anyone who can cut out paper dolls can make reed valves from fiberglass or carbon fiber.


Dennis, I bought the std black twill-weave

David_L6 I have used regular fiberglass reeds that I assume are the same as the Merc 44xs reeds

[Mark75H]

Step 1:

cut the material into a strip just wider than the reed you want to make. Use a reed as a template

If you are making interlocked gang reeds you probably want to cut a strip with the narrowest dimension, but leave 1/32" or 1/16" extra on each side for at least the first few sets you make. As you make more reeds you will get the hang of it and learn to reduce the waste making the razor and scissor cuts closer to the finished size.

You can cut the strip with scissors or with a straight edge and a razor.

To maximize the number of finished reeds and minimize waste I use a straight edge and razor.

[Markus]

As Sam says, cutting reeds is easy, and you can save a lot of money. Just go for it!

[Mark75H]

Step 2:

Scribe the pattern of your reed or gang on to the carbon or glass with something very pointy. I usually use a push pin tack with the big plastic head and leave the Exacto in the drawer, but this made a prettier picture:

[horn5413]

I'm Listening. I ordered some today since we use it sleds too..

[1BadAction]

sam, i am forever in your debt for showing me that website

im not worthy, im not worthy :D

[mercmack]

I AM JUST TAKING DOWN A OLD 35O MERC TO PLAY WITH..THE QUESTION I HAVE IS HOW LONG OF LIFE DO THESE REEDS HAVE?
ONE THING ABOUT BEING RETIRED I HAVE LOST OF TIME..AND I DO ENJOY TAKING THESE OLD MERC'S DOWN.. AND MAKING THEM RUN AGAIN...:D :D :D

[mackeral5]

found this while searching, one of Mark75H's many informative posts.

Has anyone else gone this route? I was thinking about ordering a sheet as my broke ass don't need to invest much $$$$ in reeds but I do really like the way my hydrotec carbon fiber reeds idled in my v4. shouldn't take to long to carve out a set for my v6 cages that I'm currently hogging out.

[jphii]

Glad you brought this one back up!

[Markus]

found this while searching, one of Mark75H's many informative posts.

Has anyone else gone this route?

Well, as I sort of indicated above, we did it a few years back for a Yamaha V6 with custom reed cages. It is really simple, and if you have more time than money, it is the way to go.

[David Borg]

Interesting thread

What would be the difference performance wise between the 0.020 and the .013 .

Is the stiffer reed better for top end:confused:

thanks

[horn5413]

Well. I'm glad this came back up. I need to get another sheet, and I couldn't remember where I got it from. I did cut, and run them on a 2.4 200 a couple years with no problems, they were 5 petal cages. I haven't tried them on the rubber coated cages yet, due to that the boat has been in surgery for a couple years. MIKE>>

[mackeral5]

My aftermarket carbon fiber reeds measure .020 on my digital calipers, a good reference point for proven carbon fiber reed.

thanks for the feedback, good info for us po boys in this thread!

[Mark75H]

Interesting thread
What would be the difference performance wise between the 0.020 and the .013 .
Is the stiffer reed better for top end:confused: thanks

The stiffer reed is better for long life, the thinner reed is better for all around performance, but has very short life - as in minutes vs tens or hundreds of hours.

[mackeral5]

if memory serves me correctly I went carbon fiber around 100hrs or less. the reeds are still perfect even though the motor kicked the bucket at 575hrs. so that leads me to believe .020 should be good for at least 500 hrs.

[Markus]

Is the stiffer reed better for top end:confused:



We tried a few different thicknesses and could not notice any top-end performance as long as the reed was thin enough to open fully.

[gotboostedvr6]

good find!!!!!

[nzskiracer]

Great post on carbon fibre, thanks for taking the time to share . Cheers

[ernstudet22]

I went to the site; they had .023 as opposed to .020 Am I looking at the right stuff?

[steve]

Do they have any lother thickness available? And do you know what the resin is? The resin makes a huge difference in these for some reason. We've found through testing and dyno on our CF that the .015 to .017" range makes more power on the CF material we were having cut. That mixture material with 2 types og material did not work very well for us. We tried several combos. They look cool though in the various colors!
It would be great to be able to make our own if we could find material in the size we need. The thinner stuff did not last and the thicker stuff would not rpm. However, the thicker stuff worked fine in stock motors. Your method of cutting your own looks great. It would allow you to try various materials easily and cheaply. Great post!

[1Moon]

I went to the site; they had .023 as opposed to .020 Am I looking at the right stuff?

I'm with you on that. Is .023 too thick for stock applications?

[tinker060]

A suggestion.... Take a .041 drill and put a small hole at the end of the cut. Keeps the reed from splitting at high RPM.

Jon Wright

[mackeral5]

thanks for the tip Dr. Wright. just gotta figure out what thickness to order from the robot store, hopefully the makeup of this cf will live with the temps and gas/oil. .023 is the closest they offer to my existing cf reeds, hopefully the 3 thousanths won't make much difference. they will go in a mildly modified yammie 2.6. primarily I'm looking for the nice low rpm/idle characteristics of my hydrotec cf reeds. won't ever turn the motor over 6500rpm.

[jphii]

Hey Jon, what aver happened with the reeds you were making?

[tinker060]

Phil....I have made a few more sets....now back to using circuit board material as I could not see any difference in the CF except for the cost. Cost not an issue if you are only making a couple of dozen reeds but I have a tencency to use a lot of reeds in the Merc and OCM............

Mackrel.....I don't think you will see any difference between .020 or .023. The only difference I ever felt in the seat of my pants was with .013's vs .023's. They were good for one run but it did make a real differnce at the starting line. Personally, if I were not going to turm the motor over 7000, I would use SS reeds and coated reed blocks.

Jon Wright

[mackeral5]

thanks again jon. I'll end up eventually making a set of cf's if only for the improved idle. that's really all I gained when using cf on my v4...

[j_martin]

Phil....I have made a few more sets....now back to using circuit board material as I could not see any difference in the CF except for the cost. Cost not an issue if you are only making a couple of dozen reeds but I have a tencency to use a lot of reeds in the Merc and OCM............

Jon Wright

Jon
What kind of circuit board material do you use?

John

[tinker060]

FR4...in .023. Lots of places carry the stuff. I use a scroll saw to cut multiple layers of reeds at one time. You can make a jig and guide plate from good grade particle board and dowel rod. You have to drill and tap a couple of holes in the scroll saws flat surface (to square and locate the P/B guide plate). Don't forget to "break" the square cornors of the petals or they will chip. Easiest way that I have found is to (stack the reeds together) take a
.375 smooth cut triangle file (using the "V") and bevel the adjoining reeds about .050. It's also a good idea to deburr all edges of the reeds. They seal better and last longer.

Jon Wright

[mackeral5]

John, again thank you for sharing info that many would consider top secret and keep to themselves. that's what the site is about!

I'm still looking for a pic of a horizontal front yammie v4, but I guess that one is either an urban legend or anyone that has done it considers it top secret and would have to kill me if they showed me!!!!!

[Markus]

I'm still looking for a pic of a horizontal front yammie v4, but I guess that one is either an urban legend or anyone that has done it considers it top secret and would have to kill me if they showed me!!!!!

Talk to Wayne Taylor!

[mackeral5]

markus, one of these days I need to get off my ass and make a trip over there. it's about 125 miles according to mapquest....

[mer]

this is also a good site for some of the odder sizes . www.protechcomposite.com (http://www.protechcomposite.com)

[Mark75H]

Any idea if the epoxy is fuel or heat proof?

[Bloodfist]

What makes carbon fibre reeds better anyways?

[j_martin]

Better strength, lower mass, digestable (if they break)

[mackeral5]

the lower mass makes for greater flexibility. to add to j martin's list of pro's. better (smoother) idle. that's the primary reason I like them. I do a lot of slow speed trolling and with cf reeds I have been able to troll at 400-500rpm in gear.

[Bloodfist]

O true thanks. I always wondered why the XS series of Optimax had CF Reeds.