Any info on Carbonfiber boats, Pro's and Con's?

[Capt Walker]

Am thinking about picking one up any info on them, Maitenance, Repair, any strengths and weaknesses known?

[CUDA]

Who is making a carbon boat? Skater? Strong and light if done right.

[Capt Walker]

Yes Skater

[espen]

I had a look into the hull of Victory marines 45 +something offshore 1 boat....and it was all carbon fiber .....WOW!
The deck exploded of in a race in Arendal because of ignited gas fumes
they fixed it up and the work was stunning.

[Raceman]

They're tremendously strong and lighter than the alternatives. The only downsides I'm aware of is cost and the fact that they conduct electricity. Ruork told me about a guy that had a bad ground on an STV and it was shockin' him ridin' down the lake and he couldn't get away from it.:eek: Hey, there's an idea: maybe we could start givin' criminals "the electric boat".:D

[Wile E. Coyote]

About carbon fiber:

If it is layed up correctly, then it is the chit, stronger, lighter, more durable....If it is done incorrectly it can be weaker than a polyester resin crappy layup....choose your builder carefully and do a little research about carbon fiber construction so you can ask the important questions....too many people think that the funky color and the name carbon fiber are a sort of insurance that you are getting a better product. What I understand about carbon fiber leaves alot to be desired, but it is an exacting and precise construction process reauiring specific controls and conditions....
Repairability is much the same issue. Small repairs can be done with epoxy and carbon fiber cloth but anything major should be handled by the manufacturer....

[mk30h]

The one thing with Carbon Fibre is that it breaks down with exposure to UV rays. I had a Kevlar canoe- (yes you read that right) very lightweight but it was recomended to keep it stored inside or covered top prevent fibre breakdown by the sun. No big deal with a canoe that you use for tripping once or twice a year - byut could be be problem for a boat used year round in a sunny place like forida or southern US. This could have changed over teh past few years so better find out.
Also the UV filters have improved that are in the Gel Coat.

[CUDA]

Paint it. No more uv problem. I have only heard of epoxy having a UV problem, not carbon fiber?--------

[mk30h]

I think the carbon fibre itself breaks down, any chenmcial engineers out there?

[SteveO]

Resin breaks down if there is no pigment in it or on it to block the UV.

Carbon is conductive, and way at the end of the galvanic corosion series - so it will tend to corrode anything it is electrically bonded to (watch your aluminum).

The other problem is that you can't see through it when you are wetting it out.

[1BadAction]

disclaimer- carbon fibre also doesnt soak up resin like glass does. once it breaks its delamination city. ever see a carbon mast on a sail boat shatter? ever cut carbon with a grinder? do that and you'll see what i mean.

EDIT: screw it, i dont feel like arguing

[Techno]

I think once anything breaks thats it, from wood to steel.
Anyway it should be pretty durable since the B-2 is mostly composed of it as many of the newer jets are. Weight in an aircraft affects speed and range, of course load too.
Don't mean it won't break but like anything if its engineered right its stronger with less weight.
The only problem is its spensive.
I think it may have a limiting element and that might be why its used as a hybrid with kevlar?

If you've ever held an actual chuck of this stuff, not a thin sheet, it seems weightless. Like titanium.

[Markus]

Talked to a race boat builder friend about carbon fiber a couple of years ago. He said the stuff was great, way stronger than fiberglass. It was not possible to realize all the weight savings with the carbon fiber products available back then, though, so what you ended up with was a boat way stronger but not that much lighter than the corresponding fiberglass design.

[mjwalters]

Carbon is very stiff. when it does fail it just turns to powder.

[Sharkey-Images]

Just so you are not misled. There is no such boat built with 100% Carbon Fiber only. Carbon is great to add stiffness and keep things light. But you should have a combination of Carbon and Kevlar to complete the layup.
If you are having Skater build a boat for you, then there is no worries my friend. They are one of the best in building performance boats with epoxy, carbon, kevlar and balsa.

[espen]

I was at a sail boat factory in sweden ,wasa yachs several years ago ,they made this race sail boat in carbon and kevlar....They clamed the carbon was for strenght and the kevlar was under the waterline for better resisting dents ,rocks . What I know the kevlar is not very good for building boats with because its stretches far more than the resin itself ,its made for absorbing the force from bullets i think.
There are pre impregnated carbon mats available that you have stored cold ,when you want to make a carbon item you can heat it with a hair drier and it will harden . carbon made things will not crimp as much as glass .

[Rodney Nance]

Jon Wrights hydro has a lot of c.f. used in the capsule. He climbed in it at Jasper the first time it had been to a race. He started the engine and it about electrocuted him. The current was coming up the throttle cable and when he put his foot on it he got lit up. The plastic fitting thing that goes into the cable bracket had a place in it that was metal to metal. After he got over the shock he said. "I don't know about this new boat it just tried to kill me while still hooked to the trailer" LOL

[CUDA]

"Carbon is very stiff. when it does fail it just turns to powder."

Please explain this ??????? Cause I have used a lot of carbon fiber , and I don't know what you are talking about:(

[Jeff_G]

I have limited experience with carbon fiber. We only use it to build tunnel boat capsules. The reasoning behing the carbon fibre is it is a very strong, very lightweight stiff material. When we build the capsule we use kevlar, balsa or foam as a core and the carbon fibre. The kevlar is extremely strong and will absorb impact well but is not stiff enough. That's where the carbon fibre comes in.
We always vacuum bagged every part and baked them in the "oven" , a 30' long one!
For those who use carbon fibre in their capsules make sure you do not use it as the innermost layer in the schedule. The carbon fibre splinters badly in a major impact and if it penatrates the body can't be picked up on x-rays easily.
As a conductor of electricity I wounder what it would be like running a composite carbon fibre boat on a lake with an electrical storm. And no I don't want to volunteer.

[Liqui-Fly]

Carbon does not have a problem with UV. Kevlar might but it's more a resin thing.

As for carbon turning to dust maybe. Remeber it's basically pencil lead. Strong but brittle. Kevlar is tough.

Anyone interested in chemical structures?? hehe

[Techno]

A conductive shell is better in an electrical storm. Your on a pretty good ground and the blast should be conducted to the water. Its resistance that does all the damage.
Cars are safe places to be in an electrical storm. The exception is convertables. The tires have enough carbon black in them to be conductive.

[Jeff_G]

Techno, you go sit your ass in a carbon fibre boat in an electrical storm! :D :D Let me know how it goes

Where did you get the bit about car tires being conductive and that's what keeps you safe in an electrical storm?
If the lightning strike hits close enough in the water it is the very conductivity of the carbon fibre that would light you up, not save you, unless it was totally isolated.

[Techno]

Lightening won't strike close to you on the water, your the highest point so most likely to get hit. If it hits the water "near" you is a qualitive thing. The strike has just been grounded and there is now a voltage gradient from it.
Being in a boat is most likely like being in a convertable so. Unless a capsule your about the highest point and not in a good position! You get struck and whether or not the boat is conductive it is now at these voltage levels. It don't matter.

If you were in a carbon ball or steel ball, a conductor your isolated from the path of least resistance.
The strike has no reason to go through the salt water bag contained inside the conductor
Kind of like a bird on a wire deal.

Insulation is voltage dependant. At high voltages things that are normaly thought of as insulative are now conductive. Also at high volts the majority is carried in the magnetic field not the actual conductor.
Trivia
water has a dielectric strength of 50 KV per .001". if pure. This is only found in high powered switching device like cyclotrons.
Air is about 1kv per inch. lightening has traveled several miles, a few fractions of an inch of rubber is nothing.
In an electrical storm a car is a safe place to be. Safer than being out in the open or under a tree.

Talk about off topic!
http://www.mos.org/sln/toe/touch2.gif Seen and described here.http://www.mos.org/sln/toe/cage.html

This isn't a trick foto.
http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/00-01/art/tesla.00-10-30.200.jpg

This is. This spark toy puts out 13 million volts.:eek: http://www.ttr.com/images/tesla3.JPG

[Jeff_G]

But very low amps!

I guess you have never been out in a boat in a storm.
Ever seen lightning hit the ground instead of a nearby tree? Happens all the time.