If Evinrude made a HI-Performance engine, what features will it have?

[Backfire]

Bomb races everything they make Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo, ATV, etc., so
you would think as they get the new company lined out, something special in outboards can't be too far away. So for all you Merc folks that wish there was somebody to contest Merc, here's your chance to design (wish for) on paper. What needs to be like Merc- trim ?, out speed, in speed, degree of angle, up and down trim? Mid hsg. length?-12", 14", 15"? Exhaust options?tuneable tuner? Make the same gearcase bolt pattern, use a Merc unit, maybe different driveshaft, Gearcase style-CLE, Sportmaster, #6 Speedmaster? Gear ratio options-+- 1.85, 1.75, 1.65, 1:1?, if a different L/U- same propshaft as Merc?- lotta props out there. Steering options?-rear bar for cable and pullies,
hydraulic slave(s) in front, electric servo?, Comes with whatever electric fuel pump, trim system pump, fuel/oil filters and ? You get the idea. The John-Rude faithful chime in with what has been problem areas over the years, ignition limits, flywheels, cooling, parts availability, racer part prices, lack of any factory effort to provide tech data, or anything else.
If we assume this engine will be a 90 degee, Big Thunder block
with E-TEC fuel injection good for 10,000 RPM-enough fuel available to provide 80 hp per cylinder-how much air can be rammed in there?, turbo? Computor run EMM should be tuneable if this is a "performance" non-EPA complient engine. What should a drag engine turn RPM-depends on torque curve? How much HP can a "green" EPA motor make with a warranty and a 15" mid and a decent lower unit and a three pound flywheel. The new E-TEC magnito, is it the answer to a stable, reliable 10,000+ RPM ignition? Since we have not seen the stock version- yet to be released, what else does it need to have? We have seen the mystery "X", can anything compete with that? Or is it going to be in a "supercharged" class of it's own?
OK S & F 'ers what say you?
Backfire ;)

[Markus]

Actually, there was a mystery (consumer) high-performance Evinrude that was supposed to be introduced at some boat show last year. I no longer remember at which boat show, but it was mentioned in the dealer newsletter just weeks before the show.

But it never appeared. :( :( :(

[Instigator]

they are already testing a 3.3 based block with "E-Tech" configuration and guessing it to be in the 225/250 HP range although they did'nt really know.
I have heard from several reliable sources that the "voice coil injectors" are capable of control into and I think over the the 10 K range.
As far as other features/benifits I think if you add everything Backfire listed, mix well, and sprinkle with "Pixie Dust" I'd be happy.
After all the dissapointments from them (OMC and Bomb.) in the last ten years, I'll believe it when i see it.
I do agree with b.fire though and that is my last glimmer of hope.
THEY RACE EVERYTHING THEY BUILD!!
Every one probably knows when the first transaction took place, (Bomb. buying the defunct OMC co.) they were in serious/final negotiations with a couple of "very higly regarded, experienced OMC builders/racers" to run a "High Performance" division.
From what I understand it was down to the final nuts and bolts planning to be able to throw the switch on it when the wheels fell off of the whole Bomb/Omc deal. ( that was the last time I was geeked about them actually doing something) My fault!
Gary

[Markus]

Gary, I have heard that story too, except that you can replace "Bombardier" with "Penske". Weird.

[WATERWINGS]

"what features would it have?"

A MERCURY STICKER.................

Just kidding,

I don't get into fights over FORD/CHEVY, MERC/RUDE, etc.

[Scream And Fly]

"If Evinrude made a HI-Performance engine, what features will it have?"


A Mercury powerhead?


Sorry, I just had to.. Just kidding :)

Greg

[BarryStrawn]

Originally posted by WATERWINGS
"what features would it have?"

A MERCURY STICKER.................



No - although that would be an example of Brunswick marketing of Yamaha engineering.

Half kidding.

[Fish]

what features... Hummm... Guess a marguerita blender since it is probably hooked up to a pontoon boat. LOL, sorry could not resist. ;) ;)

how about 10k+ rpms and lower unit option similar to a speed master. If this stuff is already available and I am living under a rock, then please go back to my first answer.

Fish

[mk30h]

I'm a Merc lad but I sure would love to see some real competition. No fun when everyone has the same engine on the back- good to have some rivalry to stir up some passion and tempers. It would be great to see someone jump in Yamaha, or maybe even Honda if a Merc races a Verado this year in Europe. Make life interesting.
Hell who would want to watch a football game if all the players were Clones?:)

I think Bomb is on the right Trac with the E-Tec, I would be willing to bet that when the new company is finally settled(don't forget it has been split from Bombardier) you will see a high performance engine. Might be a good idea for Bomb to start with the smaller classes first whiich merc has abanonded and let a new generation of driver progress through the classes, then go after the big black and compete head to head. The ETC is ligher than optimax and can handle higer RPMs. Merc could have its lunch handed to them if bomb play ist cards right and I think they might.

Again I think start with the smaller classes in which E-tec can be used, hell then can adapt this to A,B,C,D class engines ifthey want to.- You won't see optimax on small engines and these would be any lower hp fourstoke - don't expect to see a X tech on low power engines.

Carl K may have the last laugh, back in the 70's he and Bomb actually built a few low hp inverted V prototpe outboards, but once the snowmoblile market collapsed so did the capital needed for the new venture. Would have been very interesting if Carl had succeeded again.:)

[us1]

I think it should come with an ore so you can row it back in. God I hope racer isn't reading this.:D

[MODVP22]

I've been hearing for a while that OMC is brining out a Hi-Perf department. I don't know how true this is. It would be cool to see some competition int he 2 stroke world of racing...might drive the prices down too.

[us1]

Originally posted by MODVP22
...might drive the prices down too.
Now your talkin'

[mk30h]

The only way OMC could bring out a Hig Performance Dept is if there have been incredible advances in embalming fluid that I am not aware of. Unless they are going to call it the Voodoo Racing Team.

Whats it been almost 3 years since they went to that marina in the sky?:D

[BarryStrawn]

Think Rotax:) The twins and triples they and others make for sleds and skis make outboard look a bit old fashioned.

[mk30h]

Barry
Yeah but the Rotax engines don't last nearly as long as a outboard. Shop owners I've talked to up here say they last just abot 200hrs or less. Besides Bomb replaced those old Rotax engines in thier Jet boats with Merc jets. That must cause a little embarassment these days. But on a sled - no arguring thier engines are great and last.

[Got to be OMC]

Never going to be a high performance division. They may make some HO models but no high perf division.
I'd be surprised if anyone has a high perf outboard division in another 5 years. Losing money is not good in the business world today! 300x and 250xs are production motors, no need for a seperate division to market them. The writing is on the wall, but no one wants to accept it.

[MODVP22]

So why don't those who care and those who build them grow some balls and make our voices heard and noticed in a positive way.

[Got to be OMC]

Here is a question: Out of the thousands of members of this HIGH PERFORMANCE web-site how many have purchased a NEW high perf motor in the last 2 years?
The numbers aren't there to support a division much less several.

[Got to be OMC]

The fact is Mercury High Performance has no competition right now and they are losing money. Why would someone else want to compete in a losing battle?

[mk30h]

Ah but sometimes you have to spend money to make money, whether through advertizing or Racing - both are really marketing while racing also has a strong R@D component. Can't be really looked at as whether it makes money in the short run,- must take a long term approach. If not - well might as well stop all development and keep selling the old product. Omc did that during the 30-50's and then Merc pooped up and challanged that view. And history shows us that Merc was right. From nothing in 39 to being dominant by 59.

As along as men have testosterone their will be a need for speed- its human nature. The best companies recognize that an develop products for that fit our desires. There may not be a Hip proframance division but who cares if the aftermarket can work with the base product. That is just an oportunity for someone else, don;t foget merc didn't build a racing engine from 60 - 69 then jumped back in followed by OMC and the late lamented Chrysler.

[Instigator]

30H, Mercury would stand in line all day long to get 200 Hrs out off any of their race motors. Your point on marketting is right on though.

Got to be OMC, very true but----
I think the point needs to be that the Race/Hi Perf division is a marketting arm of/for the company not a profit center.
You are 100% correct that it would be near impossible to make a "profit" from that division but do you think they would sell more bass boat motors, and HO motors etc if they were running and winning in UIM F-1?? (say hail yeah)
I don't think that's even arguable.
I think that needs to be a division within the comany that they never count on being a profit center.
But what's the old saying? "Win on Sunday sell on Monday".
Really, think about it. Do tou think Ford or Mopar is making any money running Nascar??
Hell no.
But they get all of us hill billy's up in the stands arguing about which is best. That **** is priceless for advertising and brand loyalty!
Probably never happen but if I was writing the checks at Bombardier (or Merc) we sure as hell would be racing. Again, the main point needs to be to the bean counters, "this department is not a profit generating hub for the company, it is the best R&D department in the world though".

[BarryStrawn]

I agree with the others about no immediate future for the high performance or racing business. At least until the emissions confusion in the consumer and utility engines stabilizes. They have enough problems without trying to compete in a sport that has no consumer exposure or interest. Special models for bass fishin' maybe but OPC type racing has become a hobby activity.

Last I read in the Brunswick investors reports, the Mercury Hi Perf and Race division claimed to be profitable. Considering their prices and limited development, that seems reasonable. Probably depends on the accounting techniques used for the payments made to some race teams, promoters, and sanctioning bodies.

Does it chap anyone else's hide to see the Bombardier logo on the tower at Indy? Bad enough they support car racing but a third rate series at that.

[Mark75H]

followed by OMC and the late lamented Chrysler.


mk30h I have to correct your history a little

OMC trumped Merc with the X-115 & GT-115 in 1967. Merc's 1968 BP motors were a direct reaction to being beaten to the punch with the 115's. The Chrysler racers started in the same year as the Merc BP's but probably with little actual correlation. The 115's and BP's went head to head, but the Chryslers were in a different class. Since the Chrysler racing department consisted of a total of 3 men, I doubt they actually developed their racing stuff in less than a year like Merc did.

The more I consider the events of the late 1960's and early 1970's I begin to suspect some of the moves at OMC were special designs to get Carl hopping, jumping and spending money and engineering time on racing instead of consumer product ..... which may not have been well recieved by the Masters At Brunswick. You gotta remember that the bean counters at Brunswick threw Carl out right at the peak of all this in the early 1970's. His passion for racing might have been a part of it.

[Backfire]

Gotta start somewhere, would guess more publicity in the upper end. I would think the most value to Bomb would be a stock engine that could be upgraded. A stock short mid, and a excellent lower unit, light flywheel, EMM reprogram, heads, and ? Get about 50 of 'em in the hands of people that know set up and see what kind of splash that makes. The good thing about E-TEC it will be used down to small fishing motors up to 400 hp. All models on the showroom floor can relate to the latest publicity.
I have heard that some auto companies are doing some prototype work to see if this works in cars as well as it seems to on outboards. 2 stroke cars?, maybe. Probably get more press if they put one in a helicopter.
Backfire ;)

[Mark75H]

Jaguar considered licensing the Fitch idea and making the engines in the US at Tecumseh, but backed out .... it coulda been, so maybe it might be sometime in the future

[lilabner]

I just want a pair of 4 litre V8 E-Tecs...

[JohnnyB.Rude]

i agree with backfire. bombardier needs a hi-perf department jus to create publicity. i have asked every sales rep, tech rep, and anybody else i've talked to at bom to bring back hi-perf divison.
they could build some limited edition models like they did in the early 90's but w/ some more hp. alot more hp. i purchased a limited edition johnson faststrike 150 in 91/92 and thought they (omc) were geting back into a race div just to see that fizzle out. i am omc/ now bombardier dealer who loves hi-perf boating and the number question i get asked is why no bombardier race engines like merc. most newcomers to hi-perf boats don't know omc ever had a racing div or engines at all. i have an old second effort catalog i show people when asked about racing. i haven't been to the boat races lately.the last years i went you could count the numer of omc's on one hand most in the v-4/ pro sport class and a see of black around them. i knew it wasn't good for us johnnyrude dudes when i saw more yammies at a race than johnrudes. i admire merc for there efforts in the racing div and i think it has helped them gain the success they have gotten over the years. i think w/ factory tech help both johnrudes and yammies could compete on a higher level. the bottom line is speed sales.......

[racer]

Yes John I am reading this.

[mk30h]

SaM
You are right, actually I was being a little sarcastic regarding the Chrysler's but the more competitors the better. I think thier large race engines only had 92 or 96 cid, in comparison to the 99.8-9 for the Mercs and OMC. Only 3 guys- not bad for such a tiny team.


I remember Expo 67 (montreal) and seeing a Evinrude Triumph 55 on display- I was amazed, merc must have been asleep. If the strategy you alluded to with regard of Carl is true - it sure worked. Would have been interesting to contemplate what Carl would have come up with if he had remained in control - good or bad? May have been too stubbourn for he own good. Too bad the guy was suckered by the bowling boys- probably enough to turn anyone paranoid.

As a side note, what is your opinion of the McCullough race eninges, I really don't have a clue as to how well engineered the were in comparsion with Merc and Omc- the same goes for thier pleasure outboards.

(I should have put this in the classic section)

I still think that Bomb may produce some limited performance engines in the next 2 years.

[Backfire]

Bombardier is stealthing around behind the scenes with some people getting ready to do Something. Just none of it is public yet.
You would think they would "float" some trial balloons -as they say around Washington- to gauge if they are on the right track. I mean when Harley decided to get into Fuel Bike drags, hell they couldn't get off the line much less down the track the first season.
If Bomb has a strong effort on the way, I hope It is running somewhere (Austria?) besides on a dyno, maybe it's not ready to come off the dyno. But when folks start test running something stout, it ain't gonna be a secret that it is, just what it is 'til they are ready to take the shroud off. Come On Down, water 54 degrees and rising!
Backfire ;)