300 Hp Yamaha V Max

[HERB]

Intimidator gets repowered by Yamaha 300 V MAX.

[HERB]

Boat ready to go.

[wing nut]

this weekend is going to be warm (around 50) are you going to begin testing? :)

scott

[blkmtrfan]

In your results, especially compaired to the merc's you have run. :cool:

[iusedtohaveanhst]

That's a pretty Yami! Boat looks nice too! Can you post some pix in the water? Dave

[HERB]

I will be testing all weekend. Results and pics will follow.

[Firestarter]

The boat looks great with that motor. Nice color combo.

WE had blowout issues and water psi issues with the 250 Yamaha on a 22 Talon. Other than that is it an AWSOME motor, I would assume the 300 is just as pleasurable.
Enjoy

RT

[2.5-21]

do you still have old stuff from merc? if so email me navigater65@yahoo.com

[sho305]

Sweet. This should be very interesting.:)

[Boz]

Wow! Needless to say, I like. Good luck.

[baja200merk]

druell!:eek:

[ghost28]

hey herb how are you doing....let me know when you are gonna be testing i wouyld love to come down and check that thingout with that yammie...just a little bit of advice on that thing....DO NOT RUN oil in the gas during break in....AND make sure you put some slow time on it before ya go beatin it...that is important with these guys...good luck

[WILDMAN]

Herb, what's the gear ratio and rev limit on that motor. I was told at the Miami show by a Yamaha rep that it was a 1.82 gear and 5800 rev limit. That sounds too low to me. Thanx, WILDMAN

[sho305]

Someone said something about that in the other Yamaha thread. Is it really that bad to get different gears made? Or is that LU the same as another with different gears? Years ago I had a price on a special splined at each end shaft that was cheaper than the part was, but I got lucky and found a used one at the last minute. It was just over a 100 for that one. I suppose you will tell me splines are easier than gears...:)

[stvhelm]

I just looked at the yamaha specs. it says 1:75 gear ratio and 5500 rpms
on the prop calculator it shows 91mph at 5500 with a 34pitch prop at 10% slip

[racer]

Rated power is at 5500, limiter is just over 6

[stvhelm]

ok and 102.7 at 6200rpms with same slip and pitch. cool :cool:

[sho305]

The other thread was 5800rpm, 30p, 80mph@10%

They say 50s here this weekend but rain later Sunday maybe. Lake will still be ice though I bet, I was up there yesterday and they were driving quads around fishing:rolleyes: That means NY will be nice a day or two later:cool:

[stvhelm]

it was also the wrong gear ratio. it makes a big difference.

[DarthVMAX]

3.3L, 539 LBS, 1.75 GR, 6150 Rev LimitR

Give me that and a new 21' Ally SUB and I would be tickled!:D

[sho305]

So it will squeek over 100. I just want to see how it does:cool: :cool: I'm sure others are working on 300 DIs too and paying attention to this.

[THE HOSER]

it looks cool
:cool:

[at100plus]

Yami looks really cool. I'm anxious to see the results. Just curious though what happened to the 300X? Why did you switch?

[T2x]

Originally posted by stvhelm
ok and 102.7 at 6200rpms with same slip and pitch. cool :cool:

The only problem seems to be the fact that it tops out at 102....period. So it has no application on a cat under 32 feet or so in a twin engine set up....and even the singles have a very limited prop selection..... IMHO Yamaha needs to offer a higher performance gear ratio.....with the same warranty.

T2x

[ghost28]

preech on T2x preech on..

[T2x]

Originally posted by ghost28
preech on T2x preech on..

Amen brother....Amen.

How the hell can K&K Outboard sell a bass boat motor?????

You guys need to be born again........

I say Amen......... Gimme an Amen.

Praise the Lord...and pass the fuel injection.

T2x

[HERB]

Well guys I couldn't wait intill the weekend so I went for a spin today. Frist time out we went 92mph. Not bad since my frist time out with the merc I only went 88mph. I have some testing to do and changes to make. We will see what this weekend will bring.

[Boz]

:D

[WILDMAN]

What prop and rpm? Inquiring minds want to know!

[at100plus]

Why did you switch????????

[baja200merk]

Originally posted by stvhelm
I just looked at the yamaha specs. it says 1:75 gear ratio and 5500 rpms
on the prop calculator it shows 91mph at 5500 with a 34pitch prop at 10% slip

will that motor really spin a 34 to 5500 pushin that big boat?

[sho305]

The suspense:eek: Isn't there a breakin period/rpms limit for this or no?

[at100plus]

Why the switch?????????:confused:

[Firestarter]

Actually, props are not a huge problem.
These are low rpm, high torque motors, they do not need over the hub props, or semi over the hub props to gain rpm. As such mercury makes the Bravo 1 stern drive prop up to 37". They work great!. So the way I see it, on the rev limiter at 6150, with the 1.75 gear ratio, 110 mph is possible with 10% slip.
These motors sip fuel, and make about 290 hp all day every day for many years, (try that with a merc). It has many practical applications, including cats!. They only issue is the gearcase design is poor with respect to the location of the water pickups and the aspect ratio is a tad on short side. It has a great skeg design, add a Bobs's and this motor will work to it's utmost potential.

RT

[HERB]

Ok guys here it is. I switched or should I say I'm trying the Yamaha because of the price and warranty. Merc's warranty on a $18.500.00 motor is 1 year wow. And I did go though 1 power head and 1 gear case in less than 2 years. Yamaha on the other hand for lets say $15.000.00 you get 5 years warranty. Even if you don't go as fast as a merc, But can get close. What would you buy?

And as far as rpms I can turn 6200. So far I've only gone 58 or 5900 rpms with an old 34 4 blade clever. I'm looking into different props and I know I can go up with the motor. The gear case seems to be a good design. As for water pickups and nose cone.

[blkmtrfan]

keep up the good work HERB, I love this stuff, I think it is great to see something different tried :cool: :cool:

[Firestarter]

Herb, the gearcase blows out right around the 90 mark, and because of the waterpickup design, it will loose water within a 1/4 inch of hight change. Don't get me wrong, they are a GREAT motor. I would buy it all day before I bought another 300X.

RT

[THE HOSER]

Love to see what happens when the motor breaks in.

[wing nut]

let me know if your going on the boat today (friday) i'd love to come down to the ramp and check out the new motor and watch you run!

516-724-0501

scott

[HERB]

As far as blow out I've seen 92 mph and no blow out yet. Hope you are wrong.

[Firestarter]

I hope I am too, but the Talon, and Pulsare that we have run them on both blew out.
I have an original Cahllenger that I want to put a 300hdpi on, and if yours works out..........

RT

[sho305]

1yr to 5yrs? Quite a lot.

No bobs for that LU?

[Firestarter]

Yes there is, they did a beauitful job. The 250 pushed the 22 Talon to 96.1mph on GPS, 88 before then in blew out.

RT

[Dirk Pitt]

Herb,

The combo looks sweet, and no one that I know does more testing than you.

I confident that you will find that sweet spot and hit the century mark.

[at100plus]

Very cool. I like to see something different too. I've been kicking around the idea of a late 90s OMC HO 250 with some minor mods on a Virage.

[HERB]

Thanks Dirk. I definitly will give it my best shot.

[Dave S]

Yes buy the best motor you can buy. Buy the best TV you can buy. Buy the best car you can buy. We must be jerks in this country, we can't make anything worth buying. The clock ticks.

[Markus]

I am typing this on an Apple computer. Definitely the best I could buy. I am wearing a polo shirt and a pair of shorts from Polo by Ralph Lauren. Great quality for the money unless you pay the sticker price. The local fast food market is dominated by McDonald's. Nobody is better at serving food with consistent quality no matter where you go. I wish Wal-Mart would open some stores here. Clearly the world's leading retailer.

What I am trying to say is that there is a lot of good stuff coming out of the US. And there always will be.

Now, most of the things I listed are not made in the US. On the other hand, on the back of my Sony TV, it says Made in Germany. That is the world we live in. And it is a great thing!

[sho305]

Don't want to get this thread away from Yami, but Markus check out our trade deficits and job losses here lately. It is causing problems. This is the land of free trade so anyone can buy whatever though.

So did the big Yamaha get run this weekend???:) :cool:

[Markus]

The trade deficit is indeed a problem. So is the budget deficit. The US has been issuing a lot of dollars and Asia central banks have been happy to buy them despite the low interest rates. That cannot go on indefinitely.

As to the job losses, there is less reason to worry no matter what they say on TV. The US economy creates and destroys about 2 million jobs every month. Only a small fraction of those that are destroyed are destroyed due to foreign competition. Furthermore, all in all, a lot more jobs are created than destroyed: 24 million more during the 90s. This process is what has made the US economy the most productive in the world and has given the American people a higher standard of living than the people of any other large country in the world. The reason is that it allocates people and resources to where they are most productive, helped by competition that lowers prices. In the long run, this is the only way of creating higher standards of living across an economy. The US economy is still recovering from the excesses of the late nineties. Once the recovery gets a bit further on its way, jobs will be created at a faster rate.

As to my Yamahas, one of my big Yamahas is sitting in a shed and the other is in pieces due to a Wiseco locator pin coming out. I have a Mercury 2.5 260 on the transom. It is still too cold here for boating, though. The sea had a thin cover of ice this morning.

[DarthVMAX]

I believe the stock 300 Vmax HPDI/ gearcase has been tested on a Bullet bassboat at over 100 mph with no blow-out. Maybe Paul Nichols will see this thread and comment more on this.;)

[HERB]

Could use some help with questions, On this new gear case if anybody has used it yet.

[ghost28]

any new numbers yet herb ?

[sho305]

You are correct Markus, but in all that job changing a lot of high pay manufacturing jobs have been replaced with low pay service jobs. We lost purchasing power in what appears to be a longer term trend; and now they have found out they can outsource some of those service jobs also. In effect it looks to make the trade deficit a stronger indicator than before IMO, though many factors affect the market here. Seems simple that if you buy global, you better be selling global...if you payroll global you better sell even more global or otherwise replace that loss of local income & tax revenue.


The VMAX 300, when you get time could you also comment on the running comparison like noise level/power band/etc to the Merc?

[Dave S]

Every nite on TV I get BLASTED by a AD by Toyota that their used cars and trucks have a good resale value. They show us dumb americans having problems with thooth brushes, lawn mowers,and ice makers. It says in the ad that we wish Toyota made such items. Well Honda does, anything us Dumb Americans can't make ourselves. We must be very Stupid. When is enough a enough?? How many jobs will we lose?? How many Mexicans are enough?? Or do we take them all?? They run up the cost of Living.:( I know this is not the place but here I am. Sorry....

[Paul Nichols]

Herb, I helped design the new Yamaha gearcase and did all the high speed testing for Yamaha. I've run the gearcase up over 100 MPH on a bassboat with no problems at all, but Yamaha changed the gearcase a little on the final product from what we had come up with at the test center. The gearcase lost about 4 MPH from the best gearcase we designed to the case that they have today. I enjoyed working on the gearcase, but it would have been a lot better if we could have done what we wanted to do and not had some of the high level engineers in Japan telling us what we could and couldn't do.

Paul

[Markus]

Paul, do you know why they changed it?

Losing 4 mph is a lot...

[blkmtrfan]

I was wondering the same thing :confused:

[Fish]

Paul,
can the changes by undone by the owner? Is there an aftermarket anything that could recover the 4mph?

Herb,
great post, i cannot wait to hear more about your new setup and the results you are getting.

Fish

[mk30h]

Merc and yamaha from an earlier post I did on Dumping



The Merc 4 strokes under 30hp are made by Tohastu - check the specks, with a merc lower unit grafted on. I remember when the first Merc 4 stroke 50hp was announced - read it was a joint venture - the Block was designed and built by Merc while the heads were by Yamaha. Now I thought that merc later replaced these models with a US designed and built F strokes EFI. Now the 90hp and 115 are Yamaha based I'm sure but with Merc components.

I also think the 5hp 2 stroke mercs are Tohastu built also. Does any one know if any of the larger 2stokes have a Yamaha origin, such as the 9.9 15, 25 hp?

Markus its not economics- its stupidity coupled with greed.

I agree that we north Americans have been suckered by our Politicans. If all the jobs go overseas who is going to buy these engines? The whole house of cards will eventually collapse. Without a middle class we are all screwed- Henry Ford really had the right Idea and he was no socialist- pay his workers a real wage and they can afford to buy his cars. Ford created modern middle class and the dominance of the US through world leading manufacturing. In the seventies we got suckered by Wall street morons. Before it companies were lead by engineers and visionaries who started the companies. Now they are controlled by Financiers, MBA.'s and others who really just strip the companies of thier value.

We have the best engineers in the world yet they don't run the companies any more like they did( and no I am not and engineer), instead the companies controls are given to guys with no connection to the product or the employees- no wonder people started buying Jap cars back in the seventies. The NA is the most innovative techological center in the world and has been for well over 60 years. We -HAD- a business culture that promoted innovation - few others did. The Japanese are not know for innovative technology - but they are great at refinining and sticking with a concept until they get it right- Look at Mazda, Honda all great companies, and excellent products. Now look at where we in NA are- the Big two - GM and Ford derive thier profit from Trucks and SUV's now the Japanese and Koreans are moving into this market in a strong way. Now if you have your choice between a great product and a so- so product at a higher price its a no brainer you buy the best product for your buck. If US companies continue to
export jobs to low cost centers it will all collapse in the long run. Do you really think that a Mexican worker for Ford can afford to buy one of the cars they build - not likely on a wage of less than 10 bucks a day! Old Henry Ford would be turning in his grave.


Its simple math, but Japenese CEO' take home an average of 7 times the average of their employees salary. In the US its 1000 times. In other words to keep one CEO' salary if the market declines they lay off 1000 workers. (Just so you know the US figure in the eighties it was 39 times). And since when have you heard CEO;s salaries going down? Now if these are private companies - no problem, usually the guy started the company and hell its his, but when its publicl;y listed well then it's sick. Let these jokers get a job somewhere else at 1000 times the salary. Thats why all the jobs are going south or Far far east it's that they can do it and we are too stupid to complain as shareholders. Cut the bums salary and give more to the shareholders and keep the jobs in NA. Other wise one day we will wake up and we will have a depression which will make the 30's look like the Good old days- which was followed of course by that real fun time called WWII.

[Dave S]

Thank you for posting that, I was too lazy.:D I am not that good with the keyboard.;) The clock is ticking.

[Looper]

Can you guys move the trade debate to another thread? I want to find out about the gearcase and the test results! :D Paul?

[Paul Nichols]

In the beginning the gearcase we worked on had true bottom water pickups, but some of the engineers were worried about patten rights that Mercury had that's why it was changed to side water pickups. I was told that Mercury had the patten rights to any gearcase with water pickups below the prop shaft. The after market low water pickup gearcases are fine, but any gearcase manufactured with low water pickup couldn't have the water inlets below the prop shaft. Moving the pickups from the bottom of the case to the sides made the gearcase lose about 2.5 MPH because you could not raise the gearcase as high with the water inlets on the sides of the case(it wouldn't water as well). The gearcase also slowed down 2 MPH when 2.5 MM was added to the thickness of the skeg. We never had any problems with the cast gearcase breaking, but I did break one that wasn't a cast case. I think Yamaha wanted to make sure the skegs were going to be okay and not break...that's why it was beefed up. I'm proud to say I was on the engineering crew that design the new gearcase, but it would have been A LOT better if we could have done what WE wanted and not had some of the higher ups in Yamaha telling us what THEY wanted. The engineers in Japan had a gearcase design idea and wanted us to make it work...we showed them a better way to design a better gearcase, but they wanted it their way so that's the way they got it!

Paul

[HERB]

Paul I emailed you. I have some questions about the gearcase. I"ll ask one of them here. I have a real problem with touque on the wheel. You can not turn the wheel right or left between the prop touque and the skeg correction for the prop touque. It does go straight perfectly but don't exspect to drive the boat like you need to after 80mph. I'm about to cut the skeg off and start from scratch.

[Paul Nichols]

Herb, What kind of props are you running? We never ran the gearcase on a boat like yours, but everything else we ran the gearcase on did pretty good. Have you tried other props and if so did they have the same amount of torque as far as turning left or right at speed? I like a std Yamaha gearcase with a Tooter's low water pickup myself...

Paul

[Dave S]

I am sorry to bore you with nonsense. Try offsetting the lower motor mounts, so the prop thrust translates into a netrual steering torque. Think when I drink.:D

[HERB]

Paul I've tried clevers, choppers and even a trophy. Some had a little less than others but you still can"t drive it.

[Markus]

Let's hope the HPDI gets beaten by the Verado on the top end in the upcoming tests. That should make them consider better gearcase designs.

[Paul Nichols]

Herb, I don't know what to tell you...you may want to try a std Yamaha case with a Tooter's low water pickup.

The Verado(250 hp) will smoke the HPDI from start to finish. The biggest thing about the Verado is the holeshot and midrange...topend is about the same as a 250XS...maybe 1-2 MPH faster.

Paul

[Markus]

It would be great if the Verado establishes a new level of performance. I wonder how much more Yamaha and Bomb can take out of their designs if they moved the rev limiter to or beyond the Verado's level of 6500. To me, that seems like the first step to take. Fixing the gearcases would be the next.

[Dirk Pitt]

Herb,

I know that you have tested every possible combonation, ie height, props, setback, etc., etc., etc.,.................................

It sounds like the Yamaha is the wrong application for a 21' v-bottom.
Its time to put it in that steel cage they ship it in, and send it back to the rising sons..........................................

[sho305]

I can't wait until someone puts out a good Verado test on a 21-24'. Little ol' me thinks it will be much more involved to get more power out of it than some think, but maybe I'm wrong. Just seems easier to mod a 2 stroke than a 4.

So is the Yami gearcase problem just on a 21 vee you are saying here? Has someone measured the thing up to see differences just out of curiousity... I'm still wanting to know if it is really about 300hp or not.

[blkmtrfan]

Do you agree with Dirk, have you tried evry combo you can think of? :confused:

BTW, regarding the verado, look at the videos, merc tested one on a 22 velocity, now if they would just release the numbers ;)

[THE HOSER]

Herb you know it takes a long time to dial a boat in YOU cant do it overnight.

[HERB]

I don"t give up so easy. I still have a lot of playing to do. I though Paul would be more helpful on what changes yamaha did to what he said worked at 100mph. Paul didn"t say what prop he used and what kind of touque was on the sterring when he went 100mph. As far as the verado goes, who wants to put a 700lb motor on there boat, It"s bad enogh at 540lbs. And what about warranty on the verado.

[1BadAction]

635 is a whole lot away from 700 lbs. the verado is a 4 stroke and it only weighs 90 lbs more than that v-maxx. :rolleyes: AND its boosted...

[Got to be OMC]

1BadStream, Have you got your new Verado ordered yet? What does boosted have to do with anything? And what makes it better than less moving parts. What do you think the Verado is going to look like in three years on the back of a fishing boat that the owner doesn't even flush when he's done using it?

All that's out there is hype. Do the Bombardier test: Rig a boat with twins one Verado and one HPDI or Ficht. Head to Head who's faster as a single, who burns more fuel and who makes more emissions. Hell make it long term and see which one has problems first. This test has been done in 2002 and Evinrude won it going away! Maybe Merc might do better this time around?

[Firestarter]

Herb, as I mentioned earlier.... send the case to Bob's ( or tooter ), it works well once they have there hands on it. Other than the gearcase it is a sweet motor.

RT

[1BadAction]

if you ask that question, obviously you have never had any experience with a forced induction motor. i am not going to waste my breath on someone who is as ignorant as you...

edit: 1 more thing, i have seen the verado run, 250 for 250 it would murder the yamahaha or the etec. a 275 would give the 300 yam a hard run.

[Liqui-Fly]

I like being in the peanut gallery better:)

[1BadAction]

no, i am not going to dirty up this thread with anymore replies... if wanted, i will start a special thread to bash the verado. just for the morons.

[Firestarter]

It is hard to bash something that so few of us have had our hands on. There are an awful lot of parts in there, but time will tell.

RT

[Dirk Pitt]

Herb,

Sometime we want just too much,

A) I want to go 100 mph
B) I want a 5 year warranty
C) I want to save $$$$$$$$$ on the motor

And sometime we try to fix something thats not broke, The 300x on that application is the ticket, fast, realiable, black, and AMERICAN MADE!

[Got to be OMC]

1badstream, I saw a 1997 Ficht run great but the bugs were not worked out. Optimax had a great big cheering section when it came out also. Now both are very good but they were time bombs in the beginning. You seem to be so sure it's great, only time will tell.

If forced induction is the answer then why is it not mainstream. Hell according to you everyone should have a forced induction motor.
You, my friend may not believe yourself ignorant but you certainly are willing to believe the hype without real world testing by the consumer.

You are so willing to support the new motor and sing it's praise, HAVE YOU ORDERED ONE YET?

p.s. - when your throwing out the ignorant and moron monickers you don't really have to throw them far. YOU have never even seen a 250 E-TEC yet your willing to compare it to the new Mercury and better yet you know it doesn't stand a chance. Ignorance is bliss!

I'm not against the new motor or bashing it I'm just not ignorant enough to sing the praises of a "untested in the real world" product that is much more complex than the current production motors. History tells us that Mercury and OMC nearly always released product before it was perfected. Odds are history will repeat itself, I hope not.

[300x Stoker]

Originally posted by HERB
I have a real problem with touque on the wheel. You can not turn the wheel right or left between the prop touque and the skeg correction for the prop touque.

What kind of steering set up do you have? :confused: :confused:

Sorry to hear about the flys in the ointment. :(

[sho305]

There is a couple of threads on Verado discussion. Once I figured out it is for hulls that are >20' I really was not interested in it anymore. I'm interested in 2 stroke DI technology because I don't think a supercharged 4 stroke weedeater or chainsaw will work worth a...well you know. If Yami makes a 300 DI that works, then odds are they will figure out how to shove more fuel in a smaller motor from the experience. Maybe others will compete also and get this new DI tech going better, and better. Are there other Vmax 300s running good that have been compared to other 250s/300s/etc?

[HERB]

I'm the only one that I know of that has one of these 300vmax engines. At least on a 21ft sportboat. An I'm determined to make it go fast. Look out mercury here comes yamaha.

[Scream And Fly]

Got to be OMC,

I was at Mercury's tech breifing on the Verado, and I've personally experienced the power of that engine. The Verado is the most researched and tested outboard in marine history. All the design decisions on the Verado were made as a result of a lot of research and testing.

The bottom line is, don't be so quick to dismiss something unless you know all of the facts.

Greg:)

[Raceman]

Mike, (aka Got to be OMC) it just about fits that you'd throw up a post like these on the Verado and bashing some of the members while you hide behind YET ANOTHER screen name. If you're gonna throw up chicken**** posts, why don't you at least be a man about it and do it under your name so everybody knows who you are.

You use your name when it's convenient, but want to be controversial from the closet. Take the heat or quit posting this BS.

[stokernick]

gosh,Herb you look like you`re boating in Fla. and it`s only 60* :) Ifthey only knew what cold weather boating was all about!!;)

[Scream And Fly]

I agree with Raceman, I did some checking into this...

This multiple personality nonsense is going to stop. Mike, you're the worst offender by far. I didn't even realize how many names you have on this forum until I checked into it tonight.

Some of your screen names have caused quite a bit of disruption on these forums in the past, too.

You can e-mail me and let me know which name you want to keep, but the rest are going...

Greg

[WILDMAN]

Mike! Who's Mike?

[Dirk Pitt]

Herb,

Theres no doubt you can make this motor run, but the question is at what cost?, and will these costs offset the savings you releized by purchasing a Yamaha over the Merc, and what will Yamaha's position be on warranty issues?
I would think the logic behind buying a Yamaha, would be to bolt it on for less money, aguire at least the same speeds as the x, and more warranty.:)
If you really wanted an efficient cost effective setup, maybe you should research a 300 PM, and send it to Wayne Taylor.............He got them running close to 9000rpm and staying together, have him build a mild 8000 rpm 300pm.....................
Now do the math, 34 in prop, 1.62 gears, 10% slip, 8000rpm.
Wow:eek:

[us1ss]

Herb, I think you made a sound decision going with the Yamaha, it may not be as fast as a 300X but it won't be that slow either.

Now on to the next topic:

Raceman and Greg: Check the IP that I posted from and you will see it's a new computer and it wouldn't log on as anything but that name. That really doesn't matter because a lot of people know who Got to be OMC is. So I really wasn't trying to hide anything. I simply posted an opinion and I got called ignorant then I was referred to as a moron. I'm neither and I definately know more about Evinrude than the person calling the names. I never got profane or bashed anyone. I called 1badstream what he called me first.

I'm not bashing the new product I just want to see it in a real world application with an average consumer before I'm willing to claim it to be the greatest thing ever produced. Until it is tested head to head with what else is on the market in a neutral setting it's just a guess at best to which is better.

Raceman: You don't like me and I DON"T CARE lets keep it that way!

Every person on the damn internet has an alias because you truly don't know who they are. I would say the number of people that know I'm Got to be OMC are about the same as the number of people that know your last name Norris.

I personally wish every post had to be signed at the end by the poster first and last name, then there wouldn't be any confusion.

I have never posted a post I wouldn't claim to be mine. There was a very contoversial post about a year and a half ago that got posted by someone else using my screen name of Billy Baroo, I never even got to read it before it was gone and I haven't seen it to this day. If the IP address would have been checked correctly the person that posted that post would have been identified.

Greg, So now that that is out in the open if I have to go by one screen name make it Billy Baroo, Thanks, Mike

[Raceman]

"Raceman: You don't like me and I DON"T CARE lets keep it that way!"

Mike, I don't even know you, so I certainly wouldn't say I dislike you. What I object to is somebody having at least 11 different screen names. It just causes Greg and whoever else helps him to do a bunch of extra work that could be better directed at adding features to the site.

As far as the Verado goes, I'm trying my best to get one ordered myself, but am being told that so far they're only available as pre-rigs, but it does show I'm backin' my optimism that this is a great product up with tryin' to buyi one.

[THE HOSER]

I have a question
weres jerry on this ?:confused:

[Firestarter]

"I'm the only one that I know of that has one of these 300vmax engines", No Herb you are not, I stated right at the beginning that you were going to have problems with this!

Dirk, there are no 9000 rpm 3.0l motors that "live"..... EVER. Cast pistons and high reciprocating weight don't get along. Funny how egos tend to break the laws of physics.

RT

[blkmtrfan]

Could you adapt a merc lower to the yammi like rrrevnrude did with the OMC?

Also HERB, how does the yammi stack up compaired to merc 250 you had on there a while?

[Liqui-Fly]

Live to some guys is 500 hours, some 200, me, 100 hours would make me happy and others like T-tex, is like 4 quarter mile passes:D

[Firestarter]

Fly........ that is the truth!

RT

[DarthVMAX]

I am pullin for ya!!! Make that 300 VMAX S-C-R-E-A-M!:D

I saw the 250 Verado got a 21 ft Triton to 69.9 mph!!!:o :rolleyes: :D

You know, that is all great that the Verado is the most tested engine in history...truely it is. There are military aircraft out there that were "tested" to great extent too. However things really changed once the the aircraft went into service.

There WILL be deficiencies found in the Verado, just like all 1st generation products. Ficht and Optimax and even the 1000 psi HPDI just to name a few.

[Markus]

Guys, be aware of one thing:

The 25000 hour figure claimed by Mercury may sound impressive, but after all these are fishing outboards that should live for at least 1000 hours, ideally 3 times as long.

Even if we use the lower number, we get no more than 25 engines that have done a full 1000 hour life cycle. If we then divide those 25 engines with the 4 models which have been launched so far, we get 6.25 engines of each model.

That is not a whole lot.

[sho305]

I just like new stuff that might be better. Really a blower and a DOHC motor have both been tested, run, raced, and worked for many decades by the largest engine makers; so the new Merc has that advantage unlike the relatively new 2 stroke DI system. I hope the new Merc generates Optimax R&D funds.

I think from the maker's view, you are going to sell few performance motors that last 200 hours compared to profit making motors that last 1000 or whatever the standard hours. Why you would not offer that crowd mod parts/etc if they want, I don't know. If I made a motor I'd have no problem, in fact I would be happy to help someone break the warranty to go faster and buy more stuff from me. Seems logical for the move to larger displacement/low rpm 250-300hp units that live better. I'd also guess the larger craft these motors go on might be used more often in open water than a smaller lake boat.

I wanna see that thing run too.:D

[stokernick]

Markus,why do you have to be so analytical??Herb,test it,race it,then build another one and rig it with the Verado and then we`ll know the rest of the story.Maybe Consumer Reports will even bankroll you in the interest our need to know!!! :D :D :D

[Dirk Pitt]

Firewalker,

No ego here, I sincerly hope Herb gets what he wants out of that Yamaha,
As far as 9000 rpm 300pm's, I have had lengthy conversations with Wayne Taylor about the 300PM,s, he has run these motors in that range, after take down, rings, pistons, pins, and cylinder walls were in fine shape, yes I agree those rpms are extreme, but it is a testiment to Waynes engineering ability...................
But lets face facts Yamaha and Verodo were never designed for go fast boats, Im sure they had a different consumer in mind.

[jerry]

keep up the good work herb !!! jerry will put in a call a to Yamaha and see what they can do for ya . show all these merc guys that the japs can build a better motor at a better price , this country is f#cked with all the unions and political crap !!! You can go to canada and buy medicine for 1/5 the cost it is here and it is made here in the usa and shipped there ( hope not by fedex , will get lost ) ( explain that one ) jerry might move to japan , at least they have strong work force over there., not like the pussys in the usa . Lets vote out bush !!!!! we are the major power in this world and cant even take care of our own people here. billions spent going space ( who gives a rats ass whats out there it doesnt anything for us ) sadam is in our custody and now gas is going to be 3 bucks a gallon.
WE ARE ALL F*CKED !!!!!



VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Raceman]

"jerry might move to japan "

But the Japanese might eat Jerry's dog.:eek: :eek:

I still don't understand why so many folks have this high RPM mentality. There are VERY FEW MOTORS that are gonna push a boat faster if you pitch em to scream. If you're drag racing or doing other stuff that requires acceleration, then by all means let em turn, but I can't find anything that hasn't run faster the more pitch I've loaded to it. I'd be willing to bet that regardless of the boat, if somebody's twistin' ProMax's to 9K RPM, regardless of what's been done to em, if they increase pitch or gear ratio it's gonna put substantial speed on the boat.

[Firestarter]

The bottom line is, I too hope that Herb does well with the motor. But I stated right from the start that it will not work well with that gearcase, I was ignored because you all know better. My extensive experience with it doesn't count, both on vees and tunnels. Ignore me I know nothing.

As for Wayne, I know him, use some of his products, but it WILL NOT LAST AT 9000 RPM.......unless he has changed the crank, rods, and pistons. Do not confuse hp, with reliability. For everything you gain you loose else ware. Guess what happens when you increase hp.

If you are already having problems with 2.5's and 300X motors imagine what accelerating the parts is going to do.

I have a picture somewhere of 5 300X motors.... that are totally unsalvageable, all on the same bench, all 8000 rpm motors (ya modified), but you all know better....... funny how we have already been there.

RT

BTW. If Herb runs a Bob's cone installed by them, or Tooter all the problems will go away. Solid mounts will help also... the current mounts allow the motor to twist creating the steering problem he is talking about.

[Markus]

Firewalker, you said something very important at the end of the post. Yamaha has used very soft mounts in recent models to make them feel even smoother at idle and low rpm. I do not know about the 300 HPDI since I have never seen one in action, but changing to solid mounts is highly recommended if you want to go fast.

[HERB]

The motor mounts have been changed. And I've been listenning to what everyone has been saying including yourself but you did say you tried a 250 not a 300 and the gear cases are different.

[Firestarter]

The cases are the same. I hve tried both, the reason I mentioned the 250 was because it was on a faster boat, and we had major blowout issues.
The other is on a 2100 Pulsare Checkmate ( there are others but these are the only relevant boats), We had similar problems as you, the were fixed with the Bob's cone, They used the case and cut the factory cone off (like they do with a CLE).
I don't want to sound like an ass, I really want to see what you can do. I am personally doing a Tuff 21 with the same motor.

So best of luck.

RT

[sho305]

Firewalker, so you mean the cone/mounts will fix the steering problems but it still blows out?

I remember when the top fuel drag racers first started using data logging....and some found they were running 3Krpm too high;) Of course they have those funny things they call transmissions to change running rpms:D

Japan? Their economy has been in the dumpster forever...ought to make their motors cheaper I would think. I'm gonna post on that economy/drug stuff in the lounge.

[blkmtrfan]

Originally posted by Firewalker
I am personally doing a Tuff 21 with the same motor.RT

Rob, this should be very interesting :cool: Please let us know all the details, How far along are you with this project? Any photos yet?

Can't wait to see it :cool:

[Firestarter]

Not far at all.

I have many projects on the go.

2 other outboards
2 sterndrives all need to be finished first.

RT.....and seeing as I have only weekends to do it, and the boss thinks she is entitled to some of my time it is taking a little longer than expected.

[blkmtrfan]

Originally posted by Firewalker
and the boss thinks she is entitled to some of my time it is taking a little longer than expected.

Completely understand that one ;) , not a bad thing at all, just makes it tought to get anything done

[Firestarter]

actually she follows me around the shop cleaning........ I can't find a damn thing.

[blkmtrfan]

:D ;) :D

Sounds like a keeper for sure

[Firestarter]

she won't wear a piston ring..... she wants diamonds.... titanium just won't cut it for her.

[blkmtrfan]

rings are in these days, say can't you get platinum bezles, they are round .....

[Dave S]

Send Jerry to Japland. He will show them how to make a gearcase.:D

[Greg G]

Herb, I helped design the new Yamaha 300 gearcase and did all the high speed testing for Yamaha. I've run the gearcase up over 100 MPH on a bassboat with no problems at all, but Yamaha changed the gearcase a little on the final product from what we had come up with at the test center. The gearcase lost about 4 MPH from the best gearcase we designed to the case that they have today. I enjoyed working on the gearcase, but it would have been a lot better if we could have done what we wanted to do and not had some of the high level engineers in Japan telling us what we could and couldn't do.

Paul


TTT interesting