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GregP
02-13-2004, 02:56 PM
HPDI motor at the show? If anyone can snag a brochure and send it my way it would be greatly appreciated. I think (actually hope) I may have a use for a pair around mid year.

-Greg

msm
02-13-2004, 03:06 PM
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/subcatinfo.asp?lid=5&lc=otb&cid=18&scid=7&year=2004&cat=V+MAX+Series&scat=HPDI

GregP
02-13-2004, 03:13 PM
Saw that, still would like a paper one for drooling over when I'm not near a computer though :D

-Greg

Boss
02-13-2004, 06:13 PM
How does this compare to Merc's offerings???

Prices???

Raceman
02-13-2004, 07:22 PM
I hope you'll at least give the Mercs a strong look. Always best to buy American whenever possible.

Ospreyproduction
02-13-2004, 07:30 PM
I would have to agree with raceman. IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

GregP
02-14-2004, 11:23 AM
I am considering Mercs too, but from the rough data I have so far they are a lot more $$. Pair of 300 HPFI at $30k, pair of Mercs are pushing $40k.

-Greg

lilabner
02-14-2004, 09:30 PM
I heard from a Bomb rep that when they tested the Yammie it was pretty fuel thirsty...didn't make 300 either..I think they have a great reputation that they really don't deserve. Go to a Yammie repair shop..they break as bad as everything else...There is no magic perfect engine...we pays our money and takes a chance..go with the best warranty...and coolest looking motor...

lilabner
02-14-2004, 09:32 PM
Oh yeah

My biggest peave is the U.S. Coast Guard using Yammies...this should be treason...

1BadAction
02-14-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by lilabner
..I think they have a great reputation that they really don't deserve. Go to a Yammie repair shop..they break as bad as everything else...There is no magic perfect engine...

i thought i was the only one who had my eyes open enough to see this. at the flw tourney in clewiston, the yamaha trailer had boats at it getting worked on all week, like 4 or 5 different ones. didnt see anything at the merc or bomb trailers.

for the twin mercs pushing 40k, look at jacos marine , i am sure he could get you into twin 300x motors for less than 35. http://www.jacosmarine.com

Markus
02-15-2004, 05:54 AM
Guys, be realistic!

Even though Mercury has closed a large part of the quality gap to Yamaha in the past 20 years, Yamaha is still #1. Manufacturing tolerances are tighter, things are designed to last longer (just look at the impeller housings), and the electrical components are far more reliable. Ask anyone who has sold both Mercury or OMC and Yamaha.

That is why they come out better in the JD Powers ratings and why people who depend on their engines rely on them. It is the same story all over the world: Coast guard and drug smugglers in the US use the big engines; among the fishermen over here who run tiny little 2 cyl. engines, Yamaha outnumbers any other brand by a factor 10. The Eskimo fishermen on Greenland, btw, only run Yamaha V6 engines on their fishing boats. They claim a Mercury would not even start when it gets really cold, and they would never trust one to bring them and their catch home.

Bombardier seems to really have improved things quality wise, though, and with e-Tec they way well have a winner.

And although Raceman suddenly starts sounding like Dick Gephardt, Verado definitely deserves a look, but not because it is manufactured in Wisconsin, but because it looks like a pretty damn impressive engine.

Now, if I were to buy a 300 hp engine, I would go with the Mercury 300X provided that it costs less than the Yamaha 300 HPDI, but I have to admit that I care more about speed than I care about the environment.

Ospreyproduction
02-15-2004, 07:57 AM
Easily said from Sweden.

Let's see some Yamahas spin up in the 8,000 range and see what happens.

The fact of the matter is that if the Yamaha was so great in the performance boating environment, you would see them strapped on the back of more STV's, Fountains, Talons, Profiles, DCB's, Eliminators, Cougar's, Howard's, Checkmate's, Motion's, Skater's, etc......

Sometimes you have to just look around and observe.

You may be right if we are talking about a 21' family fishing boat!

Just making an observation...

RRRevinrude
02-15-2004, 10:25 AM
i am a diehard omc/bmc fan BUT...if we're goin 50 miles offshore i want yamahas on the back....lee--yamaha has never gone after the performance boat market (probably a good thing for mercury).but as far as reliability and smooth running--its tough to compete with yamaha....raceman--i agree with the whole buy american thing--i just think yamaha has forced the other manufacturers to step up to the plate...kinda like what toyota did to the american car manufacturers 10 years ago....the market is changing and we will all have to make adjustments in the very near future....4 strokes are here to stay and so are direct injected 2 strokes.................my .02..............greg

Ospreyproduction
02-15-2004, 10:27 AM
Greg,
Are you going to join us for the "Shell Island Gathering" March 13th?

Ospreyproduction
02-15-2004, 10:30 AM
I don't disagree with you, but when you say "step up to the plate" you may want to take another look at the NEW Merc on display at the Miami Boat show. I think that they have definitely stepped up to the plate. They may actually be running the bases at this point. We will see.

lilabner
02-15-2004, 10:38 AM
How can you call a V6 that idles on 3 or 4 cyls smooth running?

Remember Pearl Harbor....Buy American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sho305
02-15-2004, 11:13 AM
Most people attribute the force behind the Japanese beating us in auto and engine quality/innovation to an American guy, Edward Demming. He invented TQM, but nobody here cared. They listened and beat the game against all odds. The funny thing is, many American companies still don't get it. Seems like if a tiny country on a little island can whip you, you should learn something from that. In fact, they can even put the cars together here and beat us....hmmm. We would rather have lawyers instead of engineers, that way they can raise our poor quality product's cost for us with more litigation; then we can lose market share and jobs even faster...what a plan for the future.

You can complain about WWII, but the stuff they make today is better by large. That is why people buy it.

1BadAction
02-15-2004, 12:05 PM
toyota really made better trucks in the mid eightys? bull****. how many of those things do you see running around. yeah exactly, not very many, and if you do, they are rust buckets. how many s-10, ford rangers (and i hate fords), and gmc sonomas do you see around from then? a whole **** load! cause they are made good. toyota was outselling gm/ford in the small truck market back then, talking bull**** about how american cars were junk. well its 18 years later now, where are all the yotas? in the damn junk yard.

How can you argue with people that are brainwashed about jap ****? 1 good thing is that their perpetual propaganda machine is hard at work on most of you fools. In my immediate family have had 3 s10s (88, 94, 96) 1 89 fullsize, and 1 88 camaro. the 88 s10 had 225,000 miles, it was crashed still ran good. the 94 has 175,000+ miles and it runs good. the 96 has 230,000+ miles and the only thing that has been replaced is the o2 sensor and the exhaust. the 89 fullsize truck has more than 300,000 miles, the last 50,000 of them have been hauling a 21 ft heavy ass fishing boat, never has had a valve cover off of it and still gets 18 mpg. the 88 camaro had 152,000 hard miles on it before i decided to build a hot motor. the week before i put the new motor and the six speed in it, i ran a 13.54 at the moroso 1/4 mile. almost all stock, with street tires and original tranny WITH 2.73 rear gears!

it is the same with these riceboy hondua civic riding pussies, "my friend has a civic that does 11's" blah blah blah, its the same difference "my friend has a yamaha that has ran for 20000000 hours and never quit" BULL****! put up or shut up

sho305
02-15-2004, 02:30 PM
I never said they didn't rust, just like the old chevy trucks when they used the cheap laminated steel. I welded cab corners in chevys that were three years old. Say what you want but we would have been driving new pacers for years if they had not pushed the quality up. I'm all for American and 95% of my cars have been but they make it hard to do. Toyota sells more cars for a reason, because they are better. The gap is close now days, but you can't tell me Honda didn't blow out Briggs & Stratton, or the same with Harley in bikes just like the cars. The Japanese would never make something like that piece of junk GM called a diesel in the 80s for example.

The American companies have not lost their market share because everyone loves the Japanese. Many people invite the free market system to help the best products come to them, and they are tired of buying American junk when that is the case. If American companies would get their %#@ together I am sure they could meet the challenge easily. Some are, some are not.

1BadAction
02-15-2004, 04:09 PM
like i said, if yota is so much better where are all the mid 80s toyota trucks at? you just think they are better. i never said anything about harleys being better bikes either. harley was putting up a poor show untill the vrod came out. before that harleys were junk if you want anything other than looks. Still when it comes to speed and performance a harley is gonna get its ass handed to it by 98% of the jap bikes out there.

RRRevinrude
02-15-2004, 06:33 PM
you should cut back on the caffeine.....for the record,i own nothing but chevrolets....but...the jap manufacturers have forced ALL the american manufacturers to build better cars....like it or not...also the outboard motor industry has been affected by the way yamaha is dominating the market share....these are facts...not just opinions...i just think its kinda sh!tty the way mercury is now turning on yamaha..............greg

Charlie M
02-15-2004, 08:45 PM
You know I tried to say that US built cars have come a very very long way in another post and got harassed. I think in the EARLY 80's US built cars left a little to be desired. My parents tried the Honda and Toyota crap and my opinion from what they bought (always new cars) where junk that would absolutely go 100,000 miles but not much more, and had warranty issues in-between. The Transmissions in them are complete junk and if you could drive one and say it shifts real nice and smooth you obviously have not drove a nice American car (don't throw up **** like Neon's and Escorts as comparisons) . The jap JUNK rusts out quick...damn I though an old chevy rusted bad but once a jap crapper starts and shows in the paint as a bubble you can guarantee that its a major amount of rust behind it. And run like ****, damn how could say a jap tin can rides nice HAHAHAHAHAHA you must be on drugs. Gas mileage HAHAHAHAHA my V8 Corvette gets as good gas mileage as some japper crappers do. After my parents tried one of my Buicks, they went out and bought 2 new buicks and have bought American since, and you know what have never had to take them to the dealership for repairs, just change the oil and drive, the way a car is supposed to be.

Don't even try to compare a Harley with a gay rice rocket. I have spent major amounts of money to make my Harley as unreliable as possible. The water cooled Harley's don't want them, too smooth for me. I don't drive a bike to work or anywhere I HAVE to be anyway.

Now little different opinion in the outboard market, In the past (days of carburetors and rock solid engines) I believed OMC had the ticket, but the 90's made me worry a bit. Yamaha had a nice product once they learned how to keep it from corroding away. When they introduced the OX66 injection, a few engines seemed to blow up for no reason whatsoever. Honda.....Love their 50hp motor but everything else is a bit heavy for me.

I really hope this new Mercury 4 Stroke turns out to be a good one.............


to sum this up............ever heard the term..........cheep ass Jap steel........need I say anything else.


Wait.................... if older american cars where all junk.......I have never heard of someone restoring an old Japanese car...................wait nothing left of it to restore, sweep up the rust and put it in the dumpster

racerx
02-15-2004, 10:03 PM
I agree with RRRevinrude on this subject 100 percent,i even think Yammha helped build the 4 stroke Merc?Look at Harley they built a good bike with the VROD thanks to Porshe.Yes a Chevy is a nice truck,but they were rust buckets,paint fell off them for years,delamanation painted 100s of american made cars for years after years of paint problems,they finally got there **** together.But we would probally be driving Gremlins and vegas if it were not for the JAPS to make us get are **** to gether,or how about the famous v6 Buicks.

1BadAction
02-15-2004, 10:13 PM
you can attribete that paint delamination to the sorry ass epa making car companies use junk paint. dont bull**** yourself, there is plenty of 92-97 asian made cars with that same paint problem, they just got to use the good paint for a little longer. the only difference is the american car dealers repainted the ones that f'ed up.

now, the new crop of polyurethane and urethane makes laquer (sp?) a paint of the past anyways. a good two part epoxy primer followed by some dupont polyurethane has an awesome finish. compared to the newest stuff the old stuff is garbage.

MirageSmack
02-15-2004, 10:59 PM
I never got this. I'm glad someone is out there trying to clean things up. People aren't stupid. If we put our minds to it, we can make things just as good as before the regulations everyone bitches about.

We did it with cars...they are faster, last longer, more fuel efficient and emission friendly now. PS: I own (4) 1967 GTO's BTW, so I love old cars.

Why the hell can't we make paint that works now..because we don't try hard enough. I'll bet if the Japanese did it, we would sure find a way. Personally, I would rather be a leader than a follower. We need to get off our asses and just do it.

I am pro American, (i'm in a Union) but if you are anti-Japanese (there is a diff), you shouldn't own any Japanese bikes, stereos, TV's, ATV's, phones, snowmobiles, etc. And you shouldn't own a Porshe or Ferrari either--cause they aren't American either.

Buy a Viper!

1BadAction
02-15-2004, 11:06 PM
actually i am not anti japanese, never claimed to be. i just state the facts. anyways, we do have good paint now, there was a few years (87-92/93) in there that the epa cracked down on the american car makers on the paint issue, and the paint manufacturers got caught with their pants down. it had something to do with the paint not sticking to the primer. Now we got better stuff than ever. thats why i said "compared to the newest stuff the old stuff is garbage."

MirageSmack
02-15-2004, 11:13 PM
thats why i said "compared to the newest stuff the old stuff is garbage."

Stream
Sorry missed that line earlier...but I wasn't totally directing at you anyway. I think we should have never made bad paint at all. Sometimes I think we only try hard enough to just stay ahead of the competition...when we should just try to blow their doors off all the time.

sho305
02-16-2004, 09:31 AM
In the early 90s I was at a bodyshop doing work for a GM dealer. Had a big problem with paint delamination on trucks and some cars, some colors, both before and after they changed to CC. GM came out with a fancy excuse that the paint had poor UV inhibitors because the problem was the UV(sunlight) was going into the alpo primer/color base and degrading it. When the paint came off the grey primer was chalky. Problem was we checked vehicle after vehicle and the ones that came off didn't have any paint on them. The mill gauge showed it every time. Many of them you could see through the paint with a bright light. Any paint system recommends a minimum finished mill thickness to avoid this. They all (manufacturers) use a baked paint you can't buy that is much different than sprayed, but it was thinner than other new cars that paint stayed on. IMO they were just being cheap and saving paint. I saw a few Fords do the same thing.

In the late 90s I told a woman if I could get her beater 84(?) honda civic to run I would giver her $50 for it. It had a little rust and the interior was an inch thick with candy from her kids. I pulled the head and every bolt snapped loose and came out shiney as the day it was born. The head gasket was $18, and I put a $20 cam belt in there too while apart. Slapped it back together and it didn't have much power at all. It was a 1.6L auto I think, but then I figured out it was not warm yet so the secondary on the carb was not open. After good and warm it ran great with no smoke or anything. I never seen that on an American car back then, with 235K hard miles on it. Have no idea if the trans was done or not. My quad4 grand am needed a $100 head gasket set every 60K, but they all have their problems I guess...like my taurus that puked the trans pump just over 60k, and Ford did nothing for it. At least Pontiac paid for the first headgasket at 60k. The taurus was in nice condition, but I can't see how use could affect the pump shaft anyway. No excuse. Yes, I wish it had a GM fwd trans in it.

This is auto country up here. A huge amount of industry here are suppliers to the big three and others. We feel it when they lose, and I am sure there are a larger % of American cars on the road up here than many other places. There are places around Detroit you don't dare park a non-American car yet today, though all those huge closed up plants have made it safer.

BTW, my buddy just gave me a '90 nisson truck. Yep, the box is gone because it was so rusted and the frame has a hole rusted in one spot. It has pile of miles on it and runs great. I had it redlined in 3rd gear in the snow drags behind the house here until it got too deep:D The muffler had come loose, so it gave the guy next door something to laugh at. Not sure what to do with it yet. Funny how the cab/doors/front is hardly rusted at all.

I try to support American business any time I can within reason, but at times I am not at all impressed with their performance and wish someone would tie the can on those responsable. We know how to do it better, we just don't at times. I'm not going to buy junk to reward poor performance.

espen
02-16-2004, 11:41 AM
I have heard 200 hpdi and 200 optimax running at idle and the hpdi almost sounded like the old carb ones and the opti was running like a new little Toyota 4 stroke car engine....almost unbelivable for a 2 stroke...
Japanese quality.....the problem with jap cars and engines are that they dont make it in Japan anymore they make it all over the world...then things like cranks made in Malaysia starts to snap..
or like one bearing in a Toyota made in Poland fails all the time in the gearbox....lots of gearbokses to repair...

Markus
02-16-2004, 12:40 PM
A 2.6 l Yamaha V6 will live at 8000 rpm. You will have to remove the oil injection, and mix the oil with the fuel, though.

As to all the other comments: Buy the best stuff you can find, no matter where it was made. After all, it is your hard earned money.

I guess it is easier for me, who lives in a small country that depends on imports as well as exports for its living, to see how ridiculous it is only to buy things made in your own country than it is for someone living in the US. But then again, why is country borders the natural limit? Why not only buy things made in your own state? Or in your own city? Or made by people you know?

Markus
02-16-2004, 01:40 PM
All this stuff about Hondas, Toyotas, Chevys, Yamahas, Mercurys and you name it made me think of something that happened this spring:

A friend of mine's dad has a huge automotive shop working on all kinds of brands. So he has experience with and an opinion about the quality of pretty much every auto maker.

Last spring he was about to buy an engine for his new boat. He could get a very good discount on Mercury engines, because he knew the dealer, but he was a bit worried because of his experience with products from GM, Ford and Chrysler. He went to look at Yamahas, but they were very expensive, so I told him to have a look at Tohatsu as well. So he checked out Tohatsus. It turned out that he could get a 140 hp Tohatsu for the same money as a 150 hp Mercury XR6.

I told him to get the Mercury: Much more punch from a big V6 than from a small inline 4, a quality record that may not be as good as Yamaha's, but definitely not worse than Tohatsu's according to the people I know who have worked on both, lots of people in places like S&F who can help if you ever get trouble, and so on.

But to no avail. His experience with American cars made him buy a 140 hp Tohatsu at the same price as the 150 hp Mercury. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Now, that is definitely crazy.

sho305
02-16-2004, 03:37 PM
It comes up here because America is getting up on a huge trade deficit and it is starting to hurt. We are not holding up our end of the deal by making other product to balance what we buy outside. When it hurts bad enough, the capitolists here will react and plan for longer than the next quarter in business. Well, I hope they will.:rolleyes:

Merc and OMC buying 4 strokes instead of making their own is a perfect example of the bandaid fixes they like to use here in business. Now the Verado is a step in the right direction, but why did they wait so long...? You know Americans, they have ADS or they are sleeping. We been sleeping. IMHO.

Adam McKeon
02-16-2004, 05:00 PM
Supercharger on a saltwater outboard...........Cant wait to see what kind of warr. they put on that. I sell yami,s on boats here in FL. Why , cause people going fishing offshore want to know that after a year or two they still have warr. left when they do blow a powerhead. Not many people want to pay a sinificant amount of many on an extended warr. Yami,s are at 5 years for all four strokes and all HPDI,s ( even the 300 hpdi ) ....Comes down to resale also.....selling your boat after beating the crap out of it for 4 years and you still can sell it with warr. is a nice selling point!

I personally like everything myself..I have more toys from all manufactures....from pasta rockets ( ducati 996 ) to rice rockets ( yamaha R6 to the MUTT of all american cars ( and the savyor for Chrysler) 2 Jeep cherokees and a Ford bronco.. I say buy what ever the **** your little heart desires. ALL you whiney bastards that say buy American can piss off! I know in south georgia there is one of the LARGEST Honda plants on the east coast! How many Japs work there? I have family that works there! Most all the electronics on all US manufactures come from overseas....I dont know about you but Im sure as **** not driving a Hybrid electric peice of garbage.....Screw gas economy! I want Raw ....Burn alot of gas HORSEPOWER! And I want a good deal...My money..do what I want to...My 2 cents is free:D

Adam McKeon
02-16-2004, 05:03 PM
ya know something thats funny.....The boats I sell are made by mainly immagrants ..US name but not hiring us workers..So are the manufactures the ones screwing the US people ? who knows?:rolleyes:

sho305
02-16-2004, 05:18 PM
That is another beef I got with them; no warranty. How come the ford ranger is x years/miles and the same mazda version is more coverage? Just BS. On top of all that you have the poor dealers of cars and stuff here, some of them are trying to hose anyone they can...including the manufacturer they sell for. I seen dealers double dip warranty lots of times. They make the purchase a big pita, then wonder why people stay away. I'd rather buy factory direct.

CUSTOM PERFORMANCE 1
02-16-2004, 10:08 PM
I just had the pleasure of running a 36 Contender with triple 300 Yami's on it this past weekend. They ran very good with lots of power. However, after talking with the VP of Contender, he ran his personal 36 with triple 300 X's and went 68 mph. Took them off and put on triple 250 XS's and ran 64 with alot less fuel burn. Took them off and put on triple 300 Yami's, ran 62 and burnt considerably more fule than the 250XS's. Either the Merc's are makin alot more than 250 or the Yami's ain't puttin out what they claim.
Food for thought.:)

sho305
02-16-2004, 10:15 PM
Think it could have been setup or props?

David
02-17-2004, 08:29 PM
Pearl Harbor...

Facts: The Japanese attacked after the US supported China against Japan and then issued an unacceptable ultimatum to Japan.

Claims: Some people claim that the US had broken the Japanese navy communication codes and must have known about the attack before it happened.

WW2 was a long time ago and we should not worry about it now. Buy whatever motor makes you happy. But please no slurrs on the Japanese over debatable claims from >60 years ago.

David

MirageSmack
02-17-2004, 09:34 PM
I don't remember any references to WWII in this thread. Although my mother still hasn't got over it, still occasionally says "Japs". But she lost a brother, friends and had a husband over there. I think most people here are just supporting America.

For the record, we did know it was coming, but we got the dates wrong, thinking it would be the week before.

There were lots of reasons for the war, not just supporting China. Steel and petroleum imports we cut off to Japan were a huge factor for instance.


Having said all that, I still agree with your last statement. I want to support America, but I also know that it is wrong to blindly only buy American. For one, if America builds crap, and we still buy it, guess what.....we'll keep getting crap. The mfg. will not change if they are selling product. If not for healthy competition, we would never improve. Please refer to the 70's.

Also, there really is no truly American products anymore. They may be "assembled" in America, but half the parts are made elsewhere. It's the new global economy.

WILDMAN
02-17-2004, 10:10 PM
I talked to the Yamaha rep at Miami Boat Show. They make a 20" bassboat 300 also. The problem is, they redline at 5800 and only have a 1.82 gear. With a 30" prop, at redline, that's only 80mph after 10% slip. Too slow for a cat. Price is $15K though. Much better than a Merc!

sho305
02-17-2004, 10:22 PM
Just what is the intended use for this 300 with gears like that? I don't know about Yami LUs, but it sounds like they need some help. Hard to believe all of the people people buying 300 OBs are not likely to go over 80. Unless it is a strength issue.

CUSTOM PERFORMANCE 1
02-17-2004, 11:42 PM
Why do you suppose they redline a 20" hotrod bass motor at 5800 rpm? HMMMMMMMMM. Will it live beyond that?

Scream And Fly
02-17-2004, 11:52 PM
Yamaha has some really nice products for sure, but Mercury stole the show at Miami.

This is what Mercury's booth looked like on Thursday morning...

Scream And Fly
02-17-2004, 11:52 PM
And this was Yamaha's booth at the same time...

Greg

CUSTOM PERFORMANCE 1
02-17-2004, 11:53 PM
The biggest problem that I see is that products built in America cost alot more that the same product built overseas. It is the cost of Labor. We americans want to earn $100. and hour if someone will pay us. Therefore, it cost alot more to build it here.

As to American junk, probably the best example of that is Harley Davidson motorcycles. I will admit they are getting a little better, but their upgrades have come from foreign technology and nothing original. They have adapted what they have copied from other manufacturers. Harleys won't hold a candle to Honda products from any aspect of the product.

And if you do not believe this, then ask yourself this question:
If harley davidson built airplanes, would you fly in one?:D

MirageSmack
02-18-2004, 06:55 AM
Those pics pretty much say it all right now, don't they?

RRRevinrude
02-18-2004, 07:12 AM
ya'll are funny to watch....you are so busy waving your mercury flags that you are missing the big picture...this may very well be mercury's "last hope"....if this shamu lookin motor doesn't sell they are going to be in big trouble.....if it isn't reliable--they are in big trouble....they are loosing market shares daily in the "fishing boat" market.....opti-max program has not helped them much....they are entering the 4-cycle market years behind the "competition"......this new motor looks like an engineering masterpiece BUT how will it hold up after years of saltwater use or mis-use???time will tell....they have a great high performance division BUT that is a very small percentage of the overall market...we sell over 800 boats a year at two locations in sw fla...and 90% go out the door with yams...????....greg

sho305
02-18-2004, 08:54 AM
RRRevinrude, for my .02 it think you have a good point and that is why they made the Verado. They just tried to go one better and make it more like an I/O; quiet, easy steering, good torque, etc. Like you said, people are not buying the Yami 4 stroke because it is the fastest...and neither will the Verado be(so far). But Merc produced a LOT of excitement over this motor, maybe overshadowing the fact that it is not a replacement for a light 250-300hp like the DI/EFI motors could/can perform. The DI motors are not quite there yet or people would be buying a lighter motor with less parts to go out to sea with. Got to remember the 4 strokes have 1000 times the development the DI 2 strokes do. But who knows what will win out for what applications in the end. I highly doubt one specific tech will dominate all apps, but the Verado looks like a good one for the non-race big OB/smaller I/O/large utility OB market...where the sales and profit look to be.

My .01 says Merc needs to gather market share to support its huge line of marine power so they did this. I still think the KISS theory lives; keep it simple stupid. If an Opti/Etec/HDPI makes a true 300hp in a lighter, cheaper, viable package...the hipo crowd will be on it. No doubt why people are eyeballing this Yami 300. The Japanese also have had the advantage of great tech in small 4 strokes we never bothered to make before, or Merc would have been buying motors from B&S and Harley and not Yami.

America can make stuff, look at our military. They just have not needed to apparently, maybe now that they are threatened they will. I see our pay scales going down, how about you? Simple business; if you don't have the product you can't make the money...:rolleyes:

Adam McKeon
02-18-2004, 09:45 AM
Whos going to be the Guinie Pig and buy a couple of "supercharged four strokes" . Granted, Honda has done a great job with there line of watercraft but lets remember one thing....Its a honda! I do believe its going to be the demize of mercury. Especially if they are banking on selling alot of them. Will I or most of us buy one or two....Not until a proven track record has been established. I wish the best to the outboard war of the worlds...Anybody hear what that thing weighs in at ?

sho305
02-18-2004, 10:39 AM
They list at:
275 Merc 635lb dry
300 HPDI Yami 540lb (dry?)

Well, you can beat on it until the warranty goes...:D

Adam McKeon
02-18-2004, 12:28 PM
I thought the verado is a 250?

sho305
02-18-2004, 12:38 PM
200, 225, 250, 275, same listed weight and ci for all. I'll guess as usual the lower hp has near as much torque for big hulls.

http://www.mercuryverado.com/indexFlash.html

Scream And Fly
02-18-2004, 01:37 PM
All I can say is, get a ride in a boat with a Verado engine.

You'll see...:D

Greg

BlueWaterPirate
02-18-2004, 02:08 PM
Remember the weight figures for the Verado include the hydrostatic steering portion of the engine. The figure I was quoted was it weighs around 65 lbs. The engines weights are 65lb's less than u c in the spec sheet. I rode the Fountain Verado equipped boat unbelievable acceleration across the spectrum as well as very quiet.

BWP

Boz
02-18-2004, 02:58 PM
Did you ever get that brochure you requested or have you just been brainwashed that Mercs are where it's at......;)

sho305
02-18-2004, 04:22 PM
I road in 2 28' offshore boats, both with 454 twins. One had blowers and the other had regular mods, and they were dead even at WOT. On a trip the blowers (525 Mercs) would take more fuel. In a drag race the blowers would pull away from the naturaly aspirated one easy.

The electronics, motor tech, and screw type charger should help the Verado maintain good fuel economy. Like Greg says, I bet it is very responsive in acceleration at any speed compared to other 4 strokes, and likely better than fishing 2 strokes especially at lower rpms. If they don't have problems with it, it should be a hit with medium to larger hulls. Their stock is going up though insiders are selling out.

It says on their site "comparitive weight without oil, prop, or integral steering cylinder," 635lbs for a 20". I'm guessing because other OBs don't include the trim pump weight right?

I doubt the weight will matter much above 20' of hull, and the blower will make it squirt. Boost control should also make the powerband very linear, and I am sure it is quiet. Has a 3 year warranty to find out:)

MirageSmack
02-18-2004, 05:12 PM
remember Chrysler? They made it, and they were dead for all practical purposes.

I'm not in the business, but they are a long way from dead. I like what I hear about the motor, and am old enough to know that in 10 years we probably won't even recognize OB motors. Times are a changin as the song goes.

Of course, I'll never pay over $3,000 for any OB motor, so nobody is getting my business. Used OB's only. With only 5 good boating months here, it would be a waste of money for me. I have a kid to support the whole calendar year.

GregP
02-19-2004, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Boz
Did you ever get that brochure you requested or have you just been brainwashed that Mercs are where it's at......;)


Frankly I'm still interested in the Yamaha's, but the boat failed the survey so I'm back in looky-lou mode for a while. The thread diverted so far I just stopped reading it.

And no, I don't have a brochure. Guess I'll have to wait till the spring Annapolis boat show and see if anyone has some on display.

-Greg

Boz
02-19-2004, 01:15 PM
There isn't any reason in my books why you should not consider a Yamaha. I've run them since 94 and love them. I'd get another one. I've purchased used ones but in my opinion, regardless of what other brand fans say, the Yammies are extremely reliable.
I beat the hell out of my 88 on my HST and hadn't ANY problems with it until it finally melted a pistion. Ran it for 4 years and as mentioned, ran it hard all the time.
My 93 has so far been the same and on the same boat.

It's funny how the most simple question can turn into a dog eat dog thread. I hope you get your brochure.

sho305
02-19-2004, 01:29 PM
Sorry if I made a mess here:o Just trying to answer questions and point out the new merc tower and a 2 stroke DI are kinda an apple and orange. IMO I'd be looking at DI for a small boat if I were buying, but my cloudy crystal ball says DI is cool anyway for light motors.

I've had good luck with other Yami products, but never had their OB.

merc644
07-27-2004, 11:54 AM
I'm new to this forum and don't want to upset anyone. I can only give my observations. While working at a marina in the early to mid '90's we rented both Yamaha and Evinrude powered boats. The hp range was anywhere from 40 and up. The Yamaha's were constantly in need of repair and had needed constant ring replacement. I don't have anything against Yamaha's but I trust my eyes and experience.