Legal defense fund.

[neveredge]

Some one smarter than me needs to set this up but I think it is in all our best interests if he wins this one. I can't contribute alot but a little from each of us might just do it.

Seems to me that they have an agenda with this charge of careless operation.

[STVRacing]

I agree lets give him a hand.

[Fish]

what happened? Am I missing something or was there a post deleted? Who, what,...?

[neveredge]

Greg, AKA RRRevinrude

Stupid water cops cited him for testing his boat.

[Fish]

just found the post. WTF!:confused: :mad:

[neveredge]

I guess we should leave it up to Greg if he would like us to help or not. I'm just glad he's all right. It sucks that the cops would cite for that. I hope it's nothing more than a ticket like you get for speeding in your car but if they have an agenda like trying to impose more speed limits then it could get ugly.

[Raceman]

There's nothing any worse than cops with personal agendas, whether it's on the water or land. I'm fighting a dealer tag issue now with the cars, and a local deputy told me when he stopped me admittedly for no other reason than the fact that I have a dealer tag on my cars, that the situation is "out of control and he's gonna put a stop to it". The fact that we're in total compliance with Georgia law, which I've mailed him copies of makes no difference, he just doesn't like it and is going to start making stops of "all the soccer moms" running around with dealer plates.

We've also had some "agenda" issues on the water here and on my favorite lake the DNR guys always stop me if I wet a tunnel, but I've never one time seen a bassboat stopped. When a DNR ranger was explaining to me several years ago that it was illegal for two boats to run side by side in a speed test in Georgia, althought there's no speed limit, I asked about why the bassboats do it all the time. He grinned and said "well, that's just a part of goin' fishing".

I don't have any problem with law enforcement, and can't imagine where we'd be without it, but random enforcement is BS and drives me nuts. Thankfully, one of the most gung ho of the local rangers retired, so we've got a new crop.

[at100plus]

I think you mean 'selective enforcement' not 'random'. It's not all that selective when you consider, every cop has his own pet peeves. That actually makes it kinda random, and discretion was given to police for good reason.

I for example, can't stand people who double park in the middle of a 4 lane roadway to run in and pick up their fried chicken. I also have no tolerance for people who just didn't feel like 1. getting a license, 2. registering their vehicle and 3. Insuring their vehicle. I rarely write a speeding ticket but enforce the above all the time. Other officers find speeding to be particularly annoying. Some are speeders themselves, but hey, the pope is human, so are cops. We have learned that both can be wrong, but that's life I guess.

[Raceman]

Mike, I guess your terminology is better. I guess I don't have as much of an issue with selective enforcement as with personal agendas that don't accurately reflect the enforcement of the law, but more exactly "interpretation". The local officer who's hassling the dealer tag issue has absolutely no law behind him, but rather a personal jealousy thing because he resents the wives of car dealers driving to private schools with dealer owned vehicles while he's struggling to make car payments himself. The Georgia law is crystal clear and specific on the use of dealer tags and he just doesn't like it, and refuses to accept it, saying it needs to be changed, so we've pretty well left it at next time, just write me a damn ticket and we'll let the judge explain the law to you, then we'll visit your superior and let you explain to him why you're going through all this court and traffic stop stuff when you were furnished a copy of the law, when you should have researched it on your own and known what you were talking about before the first stop.

I don't mind being stopped for "speed contests" in my boat, as long as the bassboaters are held to the same set of rules. If I get stopped for noise because one of my boats has an SS mid with an exhaust snout, it pisses me off when a fishermen with his exhaust relieved gets a friendly wave from the ranger. (I think this bassboat thing has been a localized issue and may take care of itself with some recent personel changes)

I'm with you on the double parking, lack of liscense, excessive speed, lack of insurance, etc., and these situations are clearly covered by the law, and for good reason.

Hell, I don't even like it when people start threads in the General Boating Discussion that ought to be in the Lounge or won't stick to Greg's 2 picture rule in the for sale section.

Laws are necessary to prevent chaos, and I'm all for reasonable enforcement and organized effort to get unreasonable ones changed. My beef is interpretations and agendas that don't specifically follow the law. Georgia has far to many "if in the opinion of the arresting officer" stipulations in the boating code. Fortunately, traffic laws don't seem to have the same loopholes.

Incidentally, I haven't had a traffic violation in probably over 20 years, and even with frequent water stops, I'm not getting written (so far) just lectures and one ranger gave me a boating beginner's hand book last year when I got stopped for no numbers on a 1 day old SeaDoo. The thing with the dealer tag and the deputy just has my ass in an uproar right now since it seems unresolvable without going over his head, which I'm VERY hesitant to do unless he tickets me on the next stop as he's threatening.

[at100plus]

Well, if the law says he can't ticket you, then perhaps that is why he hasn't done it yet.

Here, the law actually says you can't have your soccer mom wife continually drive the kids to school in a dealer plated car. Not that I really enforce that, cause I personally have a respect for any working schmoe, part of that is because I work in a bad area. Anyhow, what I'm saying is, yes that may be another cop's pet peeve, but it's not every cops pet peeve, hence you have 'random' enforcement, which works out to be kinda fair.

Fortunately if you do get the ticket, you have a right to contest it, and the officer's motives in this fine country, and you can get legal representation if the $75 or so ticket is worth it to you to fight.......

I understand where you're coming from, even I think some cops are sticklers, but you'd be surprised how many aren't. They seem to be more thorough in better neighborhoods or in smaller cities, which is the kinda city I wanna live in. If the cops are pickin on you for small stuff, you know it's a good place to live. I'll tell you, where I work, there are so many problems, people get away with ALOT!

[Raceman]

Mike, I guess that's the reason I'm preturbed about it. I haven't had a rub with law enforcement for a long time. I've never argued when I get stopped and always found em to be courteous. Now this guy pulls a stop, not because we weren't wearing seatbelts, or ran a stop sign, or were going a little fast, or had been a smart ass before or this time. The reason was purely that he doesn't like dealer tags. The law specifically says "dealer tags can be used by the dealer, his employee, or an officer of the corporation for personal use without restriction". On the first stop, the officer was courteous, but stated that the vehicle would have to be replated with conventional tags, or if he saw it again, he would tow it, rather than writing a ticket. I called the Georgia Department of Motor Vehicles, had the law faxed, called the officer and offered to mail it to him. He became somewhat rude, told me that the written code contradicted his understanding of the law, and further that the whole situation was out of control and he intended to impound cars used personally with dealer plates.

So here's the dilema: I now have copies of the letter from the GDMV in all of the vehicles with dealer plates, but............. 1.We're out to dinner with friends, and get pulled over and towed, or worse yet my wife is out alone and gets pulled over and towed. 2.I go over his head and file a complaint with superiors, then I've got a deputy with a vendetta and he and all his close buddies on the force continually write petty traffic violations (did that one in college and won't make that mistake again) 3. We get the tow job and end up in court, of course with the ticket being thrown out and pretty much the same result as 2 above.

So what's the best advice?

[RB in NM]

Guys,

I used to work for Exxon on the inland river systems when I still lived in Louisiana. There were certain laws goverening the Inland Waterways. The only offical arms of the law was the Coast Guard and the Federal Marshal and the freakin Wildlife and Fisheries.
( around 1975)

Now, fast forward a little..... (to 1980's)

While still down South, the boys in blue saw an easy chance to make some money on us good ole boys running the rivers down there, we used to go from bar to bar,,,quite a bit I might add.
Where I lived, the Amite River was the dividing line between two Parishes, Livingston and Acension Parishes. The problem was that both Parishes had water cops out on the river in boats busting people for DWI.

A friend of mine had recieved one of these citations. We talked about the Federal aspect, he got a lawyer, beat the deal due to the inland waterway thing. There was a clause referred to some specific jurisdiction in the trial, the laywer found somewhere. The case got thrown out of court. Several other guys followed suit soon after.

Now that was years ago, but Inland Waterway Laws should have not changed. Now these are waterways /river systems that are open from start to finish that lead to the Gulf or an Ocean. They are refered to as Navigatable water systems.

I know you guys down South have been involved with these new water laws so much more I have been in recent years,,,, but does this ring a bell to anyone ? Or am I out of touch a little too much ? LOL

Russ

[at100plus]

If you are correct about the law, then you have nothing to worry about. When you were in college and today are two very different things. Today police face much more scrutiny, and the chances of harassment are very unlikely and frankly not worthwhile since you can lose your job for singling someone out. If however you are not correct about the law and you continue to violate it, you can be penalized, and the officer will not be held accountable for harassing you. The purpose of a dealer plate is to transport a vehicle, to allow test drives, and other temporary purposes necessary for a dealer to funtion. It is not intended for permanent registration on a particular vehicle, and if an officer observes someone on a regular basis driving the same vehicle with a dealer plate, (picking up the kids from school), the vehicle can be impounded because it is unregistered. You see, a dealer plate does not give owner/operator information when run through the computer, therefore if too many people use them, and they are used for the wrong reasons, i.e. commission of a crime, they are difficult to track.

A side note, Police are trained at the academy not to take their jobs personally. It is the uniform that people hate, not the individual. I really don't know of many officers who take things personally and have a vendetta against someone, particularly for something as little as a dealer plate. The way you said that the officer is probably jealous that you have a dealer plate and don't have to register your car, is how we see people who feel they are always being harassed by the police. We see that people think we are macho power hungry and egotistical because of the badge and the gun. Yes, maybe in the beginning of the career you feel important or different because you have now acquired this authority, however, over some time, the novelty wears off, the gun becomes a heavy nuisance, the gun belt and vest uncomfortable, and the way people treat you, sometimes you forget you are the one wearing the badge.

[Raceman]

Mike, I hope you don't misinterpret my frustration with this one deputy Sheriff as a general distrust or dislike for law enforcement. I appreciate the tough job they have and realize where we'd be without them. I just think I've got a problem with one particular guy that's gonna be difficult to solve. I guess time will tell.

As for the law, I have it in front of me and a copy of that page in all my vehicles now as well. It's very specific and leaves no room for interpretation.

[at100plus]

I just can't see how a Police Officer would be adamant about enforcing a law incorrectly. It's not a crime, just a minor traffic law. I'm thinking maybe this guy just rubs you the wrong way. I know that's possible, there's plenty of guys that I work with that I can't stand, but I don't know any that pick on innocent motorists and harass them repeatedly without cause. There's simply better things to do. Again, if you've interpreted the law correctly, then he can't bother you, and if he has such a thing for you, why hasn't he ticketed you yet?

I know you are a supporter, that's why I don't want to lose you;)