Birth of the latest Tuff, serial #04

[RotorHead]

Here is the latest model coming out of the mold on Saturday. It’s the boat showboat.

This boat will be the one on display at the Toronto Boat Show in January 04. The booth should be directly opposite the Performance Boat Club of Canada’s display.

It will probably be sporting a conservative 200H.P. Bombardier product.

[RotorHead]

Note the more aggressive styling of the notched transom.

[RotorHead]

The deck going on.

[RotorHead]

Fitting the knees.

[RotorHead]

Bonding the deck and hull with structural glass and AME 5000 resin.

[RotorHead]

The pulls have been very successful so far. No flaws in the gel work. Here is the Deck coming out, the mold bellow.

[RotorHead]

Here is the Hull mold just after the pull. Clean and true. You can see the notch plug in the back. Removable and custom fitted for each customer.

[imq707s]

Just a question. How you you make the hull mold? Do you take an impression of the bottom of another boat and then make some changes to fit the new design? Just wondering. Thanks

[Shadow Crazy]

but.. the step looks crooked to me, and the pad is extremely flat . Does the pad "V" as it continues foreward? It looks wider than a SBI more on the Velocity side.
From the pic it also looks like the dash is sitting pretty far foreward in comparison to a shadow/challanger/sbi. Show us pictures and details when you balance it. Specs with a 200hp would be nice too.

Cool Project, I wish I was doing that this winter

Bert

[RotorHead]

Hello IMQ707, Fair question. Its one that has generated quite a bit of controversy on this subject, and I for one would love to set the record straight.

First of all let me preface the whole thing by saying that in my opinion, no one, and I mean no one has taken an idea, a concept and created the greatest thing (whatever that might be) right off the bat. All inventors, designers, engineers … Pioneers of all cutting edge technologies, have taken form previous ideas and improved upon it with their own ideas and experiences. This particular style of design has been around for over 20 years. Many people have copied and tried to improve upon it. It is a matter of opinion whether or not they were successful. The original design, as much as it was a masterpiece, was in its self a compilation, a blend of previously invented ideas that were “out there” already. Who can claim fame to the idea of a deep V hull and its angle of dead rise, the chines, the running pad, the anhedral flares that reduce wetted area. These are all great ideas and people should be given credit for their terrific ideas. Some people however don’t actually want their names associated with other products that bear resemblance to their previous designs…

Anyway, I’m sure that this will start a flurry of controversy, but I will do my best to defend my personal opinion on this subject.

To answer your question… To create a mold, you need a plug. You need to create the truest straightest most flawless plug you can… for that is what you are going to take a negative impression off of to create the mold. Henceforth, whatever flaws or the lack there of is what will be reflected in the finished product … i.e., the customer’s boat.

Some people will build a wooden frame to roughly conform to the length and dimensions that is known to be successful. Then take previously known and proven ideas and dimensions from existing models and incorporate them into their model and pull a mold from it. Others will take an existing boat that conforms to the right size and styling they are aiming at and make their changes by cutting and glassing and “bondoing” their desired changes into this plug, once the dimensions have been changed, the straightness and blueprinting has been achieved, it is possible to use this as the plug in order to pull a mold off.

It is this last method that has created all the controversy on this subject. And it is the method that most manufacturers use. There are laws and percentage of change requirements and one boat should not fit into another manufacturers mold and all kinds of bulla bulla…. Who knows what’s good or bad. In my humble opinion, it is the customer who will have to decide. If there is a quality product out there that has combined all the latest ideas with the newest materials, worthy of the customers purchase and if he is happy with the product … so be it.

TuffBoat may want to add to, or correct some of what I have said.

TG

[RotorHead]

Hi Bert… not sure what you mean by the step being crooked, it might be just the angle of the photo. I enclose another looking straight at the back. Does that look any better?

The pad is actually very slightly anhedral, or more correctly negative dihedral. In other words the edges of the “flat pad” curve slightly down, and are quite sharp. This is so the pad throws the water away from the hull, reducing the wetted area from the spray.

And you are correct the pad is wider than the other brands and in fact, it changes from a negative angle to a positive “V” as it moves forward. This wider pad makes the hull ride higher and thus faster than the others. Pound for pound, horsepower for horsepower this is a faster hull than the rest. We have not built an all out lightweight boat for top end speed as of yet. All 4 of the boats so far have vacuum bagged balsa core construction.

As for the deck, it entirely different than all the rest.

Thanks for your comments.

TG

[RotorHead]

Balsa core and Baltic Burch throughout. In the deck and sides 3/8”th and 5/8”th in the running surface.

[Bulletboy]

Looks great keep the pics coming. Why not a Merc?




Ray

[Outlaw Too]

could you show any pics of the inside of the boat dash

[TUFFboat]

Bullit boy, The Evinrude choice is purely economic, Bombardier will help support my show costs if I have there motor on it at the boatshow.
mw

[RotorHead]

Interior of Boat #2, a sportier look...

[RotorHead]

boat #1, a classy look with teak

[RotorHead]

Boat #4 with nothing cut out yet. Also no notch on the transom.

[BLACKPOWER]

What's the benefit of a notched transom?
How does it affect handling and speed?

I've seen this on a couple of boats and couldn't figure this out for myself.

[RotorHead]

My explanation may not be as good as what some of the more knowledgeable people on this website may be able to provide but her is my understanding of it…

To go fast you need a couple of things going for you. H.P., to weight ratio, and the reduction of drag. In other words you need to get the boat out of the water. Vee hulls achieve this most easily with bow lift and thus aeration of the hull. This can be achieved by two methods. Positive trim angle on the motor, and or increasing the “rake angle” of the prop. Regardless, the point of force application is the propeller. The rest is like a class two lever. The fulcrum is the point of where the water leaves the last part of the hull, and the lever arm is the distance form the prop to the fulcrum. The greater the lever arm the more force is available to lift or pivot the hull out of the water at a constant H.P.. So in Theory, the longer this lever arm is the more force you have available to lift the boat. Now here is the problem. There is a great deal of other things to consider when moving the motor back. Such as structural integrity of the rigging as well as the strain on the transom when handing a 500+lbs motor too far back. Also there are balancing considerations of how the boat will fly and many other negative effects of moving the center of gravity too far back. Thus the only other option is to move the fulcrum (that point in the hull that last touches the water) forward.

I hope that is relatively correct and of some help

TG

[BLACKPOWER]

So the notched transom acts like built-in "setback". I got ya! Thanks

[TUFFboat]

Maybe I can add a thought on that notch thing.
If you running in rough water all the time, or racing, you consider no notch. your goal would be to set-up for slower 60's and lots of air time. You want the boat to be as long as possible and balanced. If your going for big numbers only than you want to push the boat with the least amount of trim and do like Rotorhead said.
MW

[Instigator]

filed on, fire breathing 420HP V-8!!!
Be way cool having a 100+ MPH 21' Vee bottom:eek:
Awesome job on the boat/mold work etc.
I have been a fan of that design from day one and still have a power boat mag with the original test in it.
Has a kinda Donzi 22 look to it.
Very classy, keep up the good work.
Gary

[Shadow Crazy]

what TUFFboat said. The notch/step is mainly beneficial in flat water but if you race in all conditions, not having one will catch you with your pants down.

[Shadow Crazy]

Where are you located and how much does a 100% blank hull like in the pic cost? no seats,wire or gagues. I am pretty badass at rigging and like the look of your design. I currently run a 22Velocity and have had 21 Shadows- 34 Scarabs. Are you going to run the OPA P-6 with one? If not, Want to? Bombardier has a corporate office here in Pittsburgh. Maybe we can work something out.

Some of that is wishful thinking but worth asking,
Bert

[TUFFboat]

My shop is near Toronto Canada, I'm a small outfit so I'm not in a position to do any sponsor deal's.
If the guys get that SOB class going to the point were the Michigan guys are doing it, than that would be a reasonable distance for me to compete.
I do have one boat in inventory with a straight bottom that is ideal for a race/pleasure set up that I could make a deal around.
Just call me (519)-240-9010

[Shadow Crazy]

I would rather race the Great Lakes. I run Erie in the summer, that is rough water. I would like to see GLOPRA get a P-6 type class going. I hate NYC and all the congestion. I prefer the clean air and non salt water. If you hear of any racing going on there,, let me know. I like canadian beer on occasion too.


Bert

[Firestarter]

Shadow Crazy, to answer your question, the dash if a few inches farther back than in the others............ I think, TuffBoat will correct me I am sure if I am wrong.

RT

I wish the pictures showed the quality of the glasswork, it is perfect.

[Shadow Crazy]

It looks 8-10 inches forward to me.

I can see a 10" Gil bracket making the non-step model comfortable and fast as a M'F in up to 1.5 chop. How is the transom laid up?

Correct me if I'm wrong

[baja200merk]

really hottt bote!!

no running shots or testing yet?

ur not gonna bother bolting anything but a 300xxxxx on it rite:D :D ;) :p

again very nicely done!!


--kevin--:D

[Shadow Crazy]

With a 15" mid on the step model would be cool in flat water or mild chop. Add setbeck on the non step and strap a 260 on it,,,YEAH BABY.
A stock rude 225,, 61-64? If it handles the slop with that setup,,It's on the money!

Good luck in your venture,wish it was mine,
Bert

[TUFFboat]

Well, the first boat with the stock 225 Rude has run 87mph with all the interior and stuff still in. The only difference between handling rough stuff with the 225 and the 300x would be the ability to trim it in and push it harder.
Transom; I use plywood made from hardwood that is 16 plys in a 3/4". There is an overlaping and alternating layers of ply and bi-ax between the transom knees.
I have a mini notch insert that I feel would be the best balance between full length bottom and minimal set-back. It only notches the pad, so you get higher water spray and comes into full effect around 85-90mph. Since it must be flat to go that fast it is OK to be shorter then.
MW

[Shadow Crazy]

but 87 in the slop? that is F-2. In 1.5 footers? 87?? That is fast with a 225. How much is the dry weight with a 225 and is it balanced right under the drivers seat?

[TUFFboat]

That was not 87 in 1-2 slop. I don't no exactly how fast it would be, since everyone measures differently, frequency and and height. That 225 weigh the same as the other green motors, around 520lb.
MW

[Shadow Crazy]

Have you considered combining the two? ie.. notch the transom 1"x1" after the step? In flat water I would guess 2 mph gain and in the rough it wouldnt make a difference. Ever consider a center-steer model with front to back seating(2 seats facing foreward inline) for balance? Just asking and dont mean to bust your balls.
I am 100% jealous of you and your ability. Keep the pics coming!!

Bert

[Dargo]

Really nice work! I love the lines, very understated. Tasteful and clean!

[RotorHead]

I just got in... here is the picture of the tansome lay up

[RotorHead]

Test pilot...

[RotorHead]

Mini notch....

[RotorHead]

Set back....

[RotorHead]

Glasswork?....

[RotorHead]

1+2

[RotorHead]

#1

[RotorHead]

#2

[RotorHead]

#3

[RotorHead]

The boat is constantly full of people....It still runs ...Nineties

[RotorHead]

The river run....

[TUFFboat]

Did you notice that other than Rotorhead, the boat is full of girls only...

[blkmtrfan]

Man those Tuffs are really nice :cool:

Keep the pictures coming ;)

[RotorHead]

just pics...

[RotorHead]

more

[ROLF]

Hull only weight? Beautifull boat and as somone else stated it reminds me of a Donzi 22 Classic a timeless design/look.
Thanks Rolf

[RotorHead]

Just cruizing...

[RotorHead]

Cruising and socializing ….

[RotorHead]

Weight? …. Sorry still no exact measurement … the hull and deck in this stage was about 5 gallons short of a drum of resin, … rule of thumb, abut equal the weight in glass. … So, just under a thousand pounds???

[RotorHead]

No. 2 being pulled. That one is my personal boat. The black is painted on after. All subsequent boats have the color in the gell.

[trbocharge]

Tuff,

Looks good.....hey, you should think about racing it in a group out of the northeast....all, superboats, progressions, challengers, shadows and activators.....a great sales tools if you can win and stay together.......

[RotorHead]

just another...

[RotorHead]

Race? Hmmm… Well, I know this fellow here would be more than keen on going racing again. He and his wife made some waves in the national circuit a few years ago… The question is, would she let him go racing, or prefer that he be doing this… Working and maybe even making money?

Harrrr….
:D :D

[RotorHead]

Someone asked about the spacing of the deck and dash….

[RotorHead]

Work, work, work....