Duramax versus Cummings

[ProComp]

A guy at the shop here has 5 new Chevy Duramax trucks and has nothing but problems with all of them. These trucks are on the road towing everday and are 1 ton, quad cabs. He is a die hard chevy guy but he is considering trying a New Dodge with the Cummings. Anyone towing on a regular bases with a newer Dodge Cummings truck?

Specifically he has front end issues and injector issues with the Duramax and they all have less than 50,000 miles on them. The down time is killing him.

ProComp

[Rusrog]

Give that new Powerstroke a shot and you will not regret it.

Hell give that OLD Powerstroke a shot and you won't even regret that...

Go look at the ranchers, big time RV'ers, and equipment movers... they use that Powerstroke Ford and they never look back...

Just my .02

Russ Rogers
Ft Worth TX

[rmh77]

cumminis is the only way to go!!!!

[ProComp]

I'm looking for feedback on someone towing on a regular bases with a newer Cummings motor. 02-03 with 70,000+ miles on it.
Any troubles? Motor, Tranny?

ProComp

[Firestarter]

Power Jokes are terrible on fuel. I have two good buddies each with 5 trucks, one bought 3 new power jokes, 2- 350's and 1 450, and they have been nothing but trouble. He owens a large marina, and hauls, boats all day, and when they are not hauling they are working in the yard. He is going back to dodge.
The other has had exclusively dodge for landscaping, and snow plowing, and swears buy them, his oldest dodge, finally lost the tranny last winter.... for a plow truck that is AWSOME. He just got a new 3500 LOADED with the new Cummings High Output, and it towes the PSD around like a little toy............we tried it.

Just two guys experiance, all I know is I borrow them all the time and they are both great to drive, but the dodge is far better on diesel.

RT

[Squirt]

My dad has a 2500 with a cummings with 100k miles of towing a big ass rv around the US for a few years. Besides regular maintence he has had no problems what so ever. I thought the tranny or rear would be junk by now.

[crazy horse]

My uncle drove a Dodge pulling a three axle fifth wheel all over the country. He was a retired Cat. tech. He always said if he couldn't pull it with a Peterbuilt his next choice was a turbo Dodge.

[Ted Stryker]

One of my best buds is a mechanic at our local Chevrolet dealership, and refers to the Isuzu made deisel as the Dura-Lax.. He says that every time one rolls up or gets towed in it make him have to defacate.. I personally don't have enough knowledge to form an opinion, but he sure does hate on'em real hard..

[H2Onut]

Cummins

[speed]

i have had fords for years in my fertilizing buisiness. towing 300 gallon tanks behind them. biggest piles of junk ive ever had. broke down constantly and parts are outrageous. switched to 2003 4 door 2500 dodge cummins what a relief. i also pull a 27ft boat with them and it hasnt skipped a beat. great warranty. chevy diesels ive heard they have alluminum heads and to stay away but i have no knowledge on chevs. im sold on dodge

[baja200merk]

dads on 145000 miles keep changin the oil:eek: 4door crewcab 8ft bed 4x4 xlt

oh wait i lied he did an altinator last year..

its quick as hell 2!!

blew away my friends cummings

have a duramax at the volly fire house bran new runs great so far only 24000 on it all beach use tho its abused soo far ill keep u posted!:rolleyes:

[STV_Keith]

Can't beat a CUMMINS. Yes, Cummins, not cummings.

Anyway, for longevity, MPG and available power, the Cummins in the king. My 196,000 mile '94 12v runs great!

The ticket for towing is to get the 6-speed. With a clutch upgrade, you can throw whatever you want at them. I have customers making over 700hp/1500ft-lbs with the 5.9, through the 6-speed as daily drivers.

Might want to take a gander at the upgrades available as well: Diesel Dynanics Diesel Performance Upgrades (http://www.dieseldynamics.com).

[merc1987s]

I work at a city shop and everyone knows how hard that is on a truck with everyone there switching trucks daily.. In my opinion and thats all it is just like everyone elses...out of 6 powerstrokes 5 cumminaparts and one duramax.. I to would take a powerstroke and never look back. We had one cummmins go at 10000. but like i say we are very hard on them....

[rob vaughn]

But if I where buying a diesel ( AND I'M NOT), I'd buy a Ford. :eek: So, I'll shut up now!!!!! Pour me another one, honey, after that a$$ kickin' UK got. :mad:

[WARLOCK]

I HAVE 155000 MILES ON MY CUMMINS AND NEVER HAVE HAD A PROBLEM. A FRIEND HAS ONE WITH 420000 MILES. KEEP THE OIL CHANGED AND REGULAR MAINTENANCE AND SHOULD BE GOOD FOR A LONG TIME. ANOTHER FRIEND HAS A 2001 POWERSTROKE AND LIKES IT EXCEPT FOR THE MILAGE. I HEARD IN 2003 THE CHANGED THE BOSCH FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM AND HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT TROUBLE. A FRIEND IS A TECH FOR FORD AND CALLS THERE R&D RELEASE AND DELIVER. I DID TAKE OUT A DURAMAX FOR A TEST DRIVE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, AND THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD, BUT NOT WHAT EVERYONE SAYS IT IS. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THE DURAMAX. HAVE'NT KNOWN ANYONE TO REALLY PUT SOME MILES ON TOWING OR ANYTHING. I AM DEFINTELY SOLD ON MY CUMMINS AS FAR AS REPAIRS AND MAINTENANCE. JUST MY OPINION. LATER, DAVE P.S. I REGULARLY TOW MY 30 FOOT BOAT AND OTHER TRAILERS, SO THE MILES ARE NOT JUST DRIVING AROUND WITH NO LOAD.

[WARLOCK]

I ALSO KNOW A GUY IN NORTHERN WISCONSIN WITH A EXCAVATING COMPANY WHO HAD 5 DODGE/CUMMINS AND SWITCHED OVER TO DURA-MAX IN 2002. I SAW HIM A WHILE AGO AND HE JUST TRADED THEM IN FOR THE CUMMINS AGAIN. HE SAID THE CHEVYS WERE ALWAYS IN THE SHOP. LATER, DAVE

[ProComp]

With that comment as the guy here just picked up a Dodge crew cab with the Cummings to try out. Its killing him as he bleeds chevy. If this truck works out I could see them all getting changed over.

Thanks for the feedback.

ProComp

[Flashypaint]

Im on my second 2500 cummins first 92 model had 350,000 on the clock and still ran great. I wanted a new truck so i bought a 2002 and it has over 100,000 on it and with a few mods i can make a gasser look really unhappy. Also gets around 20mpg city or highway. my old truck 12 valve got 27mpg.I pulled my boat from Chicago to Dallas for 100.00


Real trucks Smoke,,,,,

[Psyco]

At my shop we install Gooseneck hitches for a lot of Hotshot drivers. They either drive Dodges or Fords. One customer is on a regular run from sth. Lousiana to Alaska. He drives a Dodge, in fact just traded in for a 2004 HO.
About a month ago, I was selling a guy a 30ft. GN trailer and he had a Dodge. As we were talking, he mentioned that he was the lead mechanic in the truck shop at the Ford dealer down the street. I asked him why wasn't he driving a Ford and his response was that he would rather drive his truck than work on it!!!
The weak point in the Dodge is the automatic tranny. They supposedly have this fixed. There was a good article in 4 Wheeling magazine on modifying the tranny to take the torque. Basically the tranny was designed for a gas motor and the lower rpm's that a diesel turns tends to be soft on band engagement.
Look at all 3 trucks and ask youself this question....Which one would you rather change injectors on? The Dodge when hands down. On the ford it's not a matter of if,but when are you ganna have to change injectors.:)

[mr fun]

on the big end, i got 2 semi's, both got cumalongs. the furd is a international, at least the 6 cyl was, the isuzu is a copy of a diesel. the navy chose cummins after a gazillion hours of punishment for their marine engines. my money makers just love to crank endlessly. in short, my money is on the time proven manfacturer. fun out ;)

[Steve Reist]

Obviously, the Cummins is good. Chrysler couldn't have
had anything to do with the manufacture of the motor.
They only installed it. Regards, Steve

[ProComp]

4 out of 5 Duramax's have been replaced by Cummings. The last Duramax came in on the hook last week. Quite running on the highway leaving crew stranded. Towed to the dealership and it fired right up. They called to tell him to come pick it up as there is nothing wrong with it. Nice!

ProComp

[eautosales]

cummins cummins cummins
dodge did have some tranny problems pre 98 they did tend to go thru ball joints but the cummins is a hard power train to kill
i would not even have ta think about this decision:)

[baja200merk]

my dads got a 97 f350 powerstroke 5 spd 4door 8ft box but first gear is totally useless unless your pulling a boeing 747 through the sand.. hes doin 5-6 mph at 1600rpm... does that mean hes got 4:10 gearing? i am taking the truck next year and will be looking for highway mpg... can i change the over drive or do i have to change the rear?

by the way he hasnt had a problem with the truck at all KNOCK ON WOOD ...real hard starting when u dont plugit in under 35*f but its diesel...

GrIfF:D

[Michael Dixon]

It's like everything else.(people's choice)I drove dodges for 11 years and never had a transmission last over 15000 miles(8 trucks) As far as engines nothing, pwerstroke or duramax is as tough as the cummins. I went to duramax's in 2001 and have had 15 on the farm since. We did experience injector failure on one truck (2001 recall) As far as trucks my choice is the chevy. If I were into truck pulling(sled) I'd choose Dodge. I like to go fast so I chose Chevy. The same truck I pull 1700 gallon nurse tanks and fuel tanks and 38 foot goosenecks can be seen at the drag strip turning 11.90's at 116 on the weekends. I have a few friends with dodges that are this fast but they are strickly drag trucks and are stripped. Mine is a crewcab weighing right at 7000 lbs. By the way what is a ford?

[Steve Reist]

Check the top of the list "best selling vehicle".
You're apt to find the answer.
Regards, Steve

[Michael Dixon]

I figured I'd rattle someone's cage. I think all around the ford is as good as the rest. Just a matter of preference. It may even get my attention this year: supposedly 340 horsepower, coilspring front end, new hydroformed chassis, complete suspension upgrade. It may be interesting. Competition is wonderful: within 2 years we ought to break the 350 mark with a diesel. I've always heard that if gmc and chevy combined their two truck sales that ford wouldn't even come close. Just curious if someone knows the actual facts. If ford got rid of those pepsi can sounding doors I think I'd buy one tomorrow. It'd be fun to see if the 6.0 likes nos as much as the duramax!!!!!:D :D :D

[W. Tripp]

Like you said, it comes down to CHOICE, all are good vehicles, with engines many times better than anything available in the past. I am in the market for a new truck and have been test driving all three makes.

I just drove a couple of the 2005 Fords. A lot of good changes - they actually turn now! The turning radius (or lack of it) is the greatest fault I have with the Fords. The ride is better, and the improvements to the 6.0 are noticeable, although I still have reservations about this engine - the torque peaks at higher rpm than my 7.3L, or it feels this way. And those I know with 2004 6.0 engines do not get the milage of my 7.3L. The body still looks the same with new headlights and grill, an updated dash, and a nice looking new color.

My 2002 7.3L has more than a few mods, but is not nearly as fast as your Duramax (or even Dewitt's). If I didn't have to give up so much room in the back seat, I would consider a new Chevy or GMC in an instant - I like the GMC grill much better than the Chevy. The Allison Trans is very impressive. I don't much care for the dash, but the ride of the 4WD is the best of all three. Ride is important to me, I already have nearly 110,000 towing miles on my 2002 Ford without any problems.

The Cummins HO engine is impressive, But with a good exhaust it reminds me of a nissan 280 inline six - but it is one good engine. I do not like the auto trans, so if I decide to go this route, a 6 speed is the only choice - too many friends with autos have had problems. The 2 wheel drive rides very nice, but the 4 wheel still handles like an old Ford. The A piller is now smaller and you can actually see around it in the new Dodges. The interior is much improved over just a couple of years ago.

The jury is still out, but I am leaning more and more towards a GMC - This is hard for a Ford guy.

[TODD2002]

the dodge is a good truck for pulling but you better stay away from the auto tranny. my uncle pulls over the road with his and he has had nothing but trouble from the automatic. he hauls 8 tons around on a regular basis.

[STV_Keith]

Yep, the auto trans in the Dodge is the fuse for that truck. Get on the horn with Diesel Transmission Technology (http://www.dieseltrans.com) to get it right. It's not cheap, but the best out there. 866-504-4002. From daily drivers to 750hp/1500ft-lbs street trucks running 11's in the 1/4, they have done it all (well, we did it with their trans. :) )

[gadgettr1]

You'll find all the info you'll ever need on the Cummins at the TDR forum/website.

www.tdr1.com

I'm on my second Cummins. 140k on first (traded it in.. wanted a quad cab) now have 138k on my 2001.. not a problem with the auto tranny either. The 96 I had I did crack a weld on the torque convertor at 46,000 miles but never a problem after that.

Chip

[WARLOCK]

Another 22,000 miles since my last post....CUMMINS all the way! Although I'm going to take a new Ford out this weekend for a test drive. Later, Dave

[baja200merk]

warlock that new ford better have the 6.0 psd!!!:D

97 f 350 has 155000 onit now still smoking the tires:p

kevin:D

[WARLOCK]

I went Saturday and took a 05 f350 Fx4, powerstroke non-duelly four door out. (Jeez that sounds like alot) I really liked the truck but the seats felt like rocks. The power is really good but The way people have been talking, I thought it would be better. I'm taking the Dodge out this week. Later, Dave

[outboards4life]

Hey Dave don't get rid of your truck without letting me know. I'm looking for a new work truck.

lets get together for a some drinking soon too. Its been a month since I drank with ya. I'll buy the whiskey.:D :D :D
Travis:cool:

[baja200merk]

friend of mine has the exact truck as my dad it is a 97 f350 4 dr psd 5speed he beats the truck like a read headed step child and its still goin strong, i mean he dont shift until he slams the rev limiter every time lol hes nuts he gave me a ride once the truck didnt drop below 3000 rpm the whole time, i dono how its still running...

kevin

[150aintenuff]

PSD LIKE TO REV... Mine will make 35PSI boost @ 3600 (limmiter) but only 18@3000 RPM... IT PUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSS at 2800+ and yes BAJA your dads truck has 4.10:1 GEARS... all 1994-1998 old bodystyle trucks came stock with 4.10:1 if you have the PSD i made the mistake of droping the ratio to "save fuel" it didnt work.... i get 10-12 where as before i got 18-20... no mony to chnge back either, it all goes out the tail pipe...

[150aintenuff]

as for CHEV vs DODGE... neither.... gimme a F650 with a CATERPILLAR.... or even freightliner(dodge) with CAT motor...




DURAMAX SUX!!!!!!!!!! break heads.... blow gaskets....... allison tranys puke electronics.... bent rods are starting to show up...

Isusu builds GREAT engines.... but THEY SCREWED UP LETTING GM ENGENEERS SCREW WITH IT... The first duramax was a I6 that Twisted the frame of the truck in half... Then GM steped in and turned it into a V8.... and tried to make it lighter with aluminum... YOUCANT DO THAT WITH DEISELS.... THEY DONT LIVE.....

[The Big Al]

Tell him to go buy the Cummings Dodge!
he has already spent the money on 5 trucks that are junk,
so buy a few more junkers.
This is like asking what is the best color, best tires, best batteries
best boat.
I like and love and drive a Power Stroke!
I was a Chevy man, and still pisted at GM for not building a real truck!

It's is the bench mark for everyone else! Ford has done it for the last 8 yrs with the turbo Power Stroke!

And your man who bought those wreckers kows and was told Power Stroke! Wrecker Company supplers pick it as #1

Or go buy a Frieghtliner or International medium duty truck!
And the engine they use?
DT466, and what does that stand for?
Deisel Turbo 466cid, that equals 7.3 litre!

Hummmmm? What engine is that?






:) :)

[150aintenuff]

SSR:


THE 466 IS AN INLINE!!!!! AND IT IS 7.7L THE 7.3 IS A DT444E LOOK ON YOUR ENGINE PLATE!!!!! IT SAYS DT444E

the conversion from liters to CID is 60.2 CID per Liter... SO 466/60.2=7.7L the 460 v8 gas was 7.5l so the 7.3 CANNOT be 466


THE NEW 6.0l IS A VT365E


DT444E stands for DIRECT INJECTED TURBO 444CID ELECTRONIC ENGINE THE 444,466,514 and other international engines ARE MULTI FUEL ENGINES.... they can run on NVG AND Diesel.

[WARLOCK]

I took the Dodge out and I think I'm going to stick with the Cummins. I've pretty much decided not to buy something till spring so I've got some time to think about and beat up on some dealers trucks. I'm still not 100%, but I love my Cummins. Travis I'll call ya before I sell. Unless they give me a mint for my truck, I'm selling it outright and not trading it in. Later, Dave

[baja200merk]

Originally posted by npartin
PSD LIKE TO REV... Mine will make 35PSI boost @ 3600 (limmiter) but only 18@3000 RPM... IT PUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSS at 2800+ and yes BAJA your dads truck has 4.10:1 GEARS... all 1994-1998 old bodystyle trucks came stock with 4.10:1 if you have the PSD i made the mistake of droping the ratio to "save fuel" it didnt work.... i get 10-12 where as before i got 18-20... no mony to chnge back either, it all goes out the tail pipe...

hey thanks for the info dad wants to do that ill make sure he doesnt!

what upgrades do you suggest i bolt tothe motor? any one make an intercooler work besides banks?

any good chips? turbos? exhausts?

nice having some one to talk to bout this moter :D

thanks

kevin:D

[outboards4life]

Thanks Dave. I looked at a new F-250 the other day. I'm still not convinced on that 6.0 powerstroke. I like the 7.3's though. But the cummins I know is good. Give me a call. (708)670-3421
Later
Travis

[150aintenuff]

BAJA:

I have the banks Stinger Plus Kit with a BIG HOSS lvl 4 chip and a 4" straight pipe exhaust


stinger plus kit comes with new turbo but no intercooler.... I pulled a load of 26000lbs total 5400 miles from oregon to toronto CA and even up the longest steepedt grade I NEVER gor above 1250 on PYROMETER but IT GOT CLOSE.... It is hard to justify the aditional $3600 for intake, intercooler and other related parts for as little as i cary HEAVY weight.

I learned how to read the pyro BEFORE i installed the kit so i knew the absolute max i could go.

It runs about 300 hp out the flywheel and about 650 torque. I have broken driveline pics to prove it:D

feel free to PM me as i dont want to hijack this anymore than i have with this post.

I will send email addy to you

[The Big Al]

SSR:


THE 466 IS AN INLINE!!!!! AND IT IS 7.7L THE 7.3 IS A DT444E LOOK ON YOUR ENGINE PLATE!!!!! IT SAYS DT444E

the conversion from liters to CID is 60.2 CID per Liter... SO 466/60.2=7.7L the 460 v8 gas was 7.5l so the 7.3 CANNOT be 466


THE NEW 6.0l IS A VT365E


DT444E stands for DIRECT INJECTED TURBO 444CID ELECTRONIC ENGINE THE 444,466,514 and other international engines ARE MULTI FUEL ENGINES.... they can run on NVG AND Diesel.


ok, Dt446 not a dt466. My point was they are used in bigger trucks.
And why do you have to yell, I take your bold caps statement as a insult!
You always need to yell at people?
Stick your chest out?
You 4.5ft tall and eat up with Nopolian sendrom?
do the letters "F-O"mean anything to you?

[150aintenuff]

Fine take offense You werent the only one to say PSD was 466... and I do take offense to being told to F off when I was making a point to ensure correct information...

Your offended cause you were wrong fine... call me an a$$**** I dont care

we will both get over it. :cool:

[Triple J]

With working in the automotve field for the past 30 years,I've seen most of the crap that has come out and what works and does'nt.Myfeeling is if you want a truck to work and don't mind noise,get the Dodge.Why do you think that no major engine manufacturer (Caterpillar, Cummins,Detroit Diesel,Mercedes-Benz & Volkswagen) don't build a V8 Diesel.Because they don't work,except for toy trucks.

[CDave]

Cat and Detroit don't build V8 diesels? 3208,3408,8V53,8V71,8V92

[pirogue]

this may sound weird but every v series in detroit with more cyl than 8 and more diplacement than 92series is actually 2 engine's bolted toghter, by that i mean blocks are bolted together, cranks, and blowers. they start as 8v92. i have put these engine's together. they also make a 24v71 and 16v71, and both are bolted together.

i'm sure like cdave said, most do make v conviguration's. they start at about 230hp to 10,000hp in v configuration.

some say IL are more durable.

[outboards4life]

Mercedes does build V8 diesels for use in Europe. The last I saw from them, they were making 550 h.p.

[luvgoing fast]

Mercedes does build V8 diesels for use in Europe. The last I saw from them, they were making 550 h.p. Holy Chit Man F*** all the GM and Ford iam buying one of those

[150aintenuff]

better buy a dodge then.... DIAMLER CHRYSLER..... DIAMLER IS MERCEDES BENZ!!!!!!!


Caterpillar builds about 12 different models and variation of V8 engines along with V12 V16 V18 V24 Detroit makes V6, V8 V12 V16 V24 and Cummins also builds V6 V8 V12 V16 V18 V24.... along with their Inline models..... Inline are more torque efficient because of their longer cranks but the V configuration makes engines a little more compact to fit in more locations.

[dwaynecsmith2003]

Never owned a Chevy diesel. Have owned several Dodge Cummins and Ford Powerstrokes. Both Dodge and Ford have been very good trucks. Mileage is very little difference....has gotten worse over the years to meet newer emissions standards; but compared to gas trucks with similar power mileage is excellent.

The Ford makes more power stock.....the Dodge can be modified to produce ridiculus amounts of power and I have done it to both. The both lived without problems after I rebuilt the Dodge automatic as part of the overall upgrade.

Stock the new Ford (2005) will pull much better than the new Dodge (2005) and I have not modified either of them. With the Ford I have pulled a 14.5K trailer and with the Dodge I have pulled a 10.5K trailer. The Ford pulled the heavier trailer better that the Dodge pulled the lighter trailer (both automatics). If I was only buying one truck today it would be the Ford diesel due to what I believe is a much better transmission. The Dodge needs another gear.

I love diesel trucks and all three manuafactures probably make very good trucks today.

[150aintenuff]

I love diesel trucks and all three manuafactures probably make very good trucks today.


true but the Chevy's are U G L Y especially the new ones....

dodges look great lifted and ford needs front end leveled above weed wacker height. as for new PSD making more power, maybe and only because it has longer legs, and it can rev a little more

remember football practice when you were pushing the sled around.. the faster you could chop your feet the faster it moved regardless how many coaches stood on the skid... same idea more RPM band the easier the engine works to move heavier loads...

[mercmatt22]

my buddies got a duramax he pulls a 28ft enclosed racecar trailer full of car tools and spare parts. has no problems and get exlent milage. his brother has a powerstroke and gets far less milage pulling same size trailer and has had nothing but problems. also have a buddie that just got rid of his dodge for a chevy his dodge was putting out over 500hp to the rear wheels and pulls horses around the country only problem he had w/it was snaping a input shaft to the tranny but he was trying out a new nitrious system/twin turbo when he did that. his new duramax is puttin 500 to the rears and no problems and he hasnt touched the turbo or the bottle with that one yet. I like the duramax and i have driven them all.

[rmh77]

Im sorry you can t even compare a powerstroke or a duramax to a cummins! cummins is the only true diesel truck motor. I pulled the head on one the other day with 300,000 miles on it and could barley tell a piston had been going up and down the cylinder :) :cool:

[150aintenuff]

mercmatt just wait 500 hp out of a duramax..... not without changing injector or turbo.... 150hp nitrus gives only about 40 hp in deisel engines but anyway... them cylinderheads wont last anytime 2 different metals of differing heat expansion rates are used in that high pressure high heat environment they dont last...he may have power now but it wont last long... cummins have a Great engine and it is DESIGNED to run 500,000 miles not 50,000 like the duramax.. 300,000 miles is just the breaking in good point of a dodge engine. it still has LOTS to run. the old 7.3 navistar ford used is the same way.. not as efective as the cummins but designed for 350-500,000 miles... THE ORGINAL 6.6 L INLINE 6 Isusu built to test BEFORE the V8 duramax came out Was the same way... ASA MATTER OF FACT LinkBilt and Sumotomo excavators use that engine to run Hydroic motors fo hrs on end W/O any problems BUT GM "had" to have a v8.... (the inline 6 twisted their frames)... the isusu engine HAS potentia just not with the GM heads.... puty a set of cast heads on it and then big power would last longer simply because of similar expansion of meterials.

[Michael Dixon]

I think everyone is overreacting on the aluminum head debate. It's mighty funny ford has gone that route and cummins is to in the next 5.9(codename dakota) I agree that the cummins is a all around tougher motor but due to the rest of the package I'll stick with the duramax(probably 780+ hp everyday) I'm sure someone on here knows the calculation for it. It weighs 6850 lbs and turns a 11.90 at 114.5. By the way this truck is a farm truck and works everyday. It is not a stripped drag truck as are most that compete. And as for aluminum heads dragsters that make 5000 hp have them and do just fine. I'll agree that gm was plagued with some defects(computer refinements, injector cup seals, and tierod ends to top the list. With all this said Ill still stick with gm if for no other reason that trade in value. If you trade every year or two You'll realize how much better off you'd be with the gm. If you are going to drive it till it falls in the road and not trade, I'd get the dodge for cheaper maintenance.(you can rebuild a 5.9 for less than 1100, the chevy and the ford wouldn't hardly give you the pistons for that. Sorry for the rambling. And I agree with above, they all make a great truck compared to 5 years ago.

[150aintenuff]

easy way to know POWER of engine... most chassei(sp) dyno places only charge 35 bucks or so to do a run... just pay for it... I thought I was making 350-360 with my PSD BUT the numbers dont lie I was PUTTING 326.9 out wheels and 660FT lbs out of an old 215hp (orginal) PSD so IMO It isnt doing to bad... and it runs 1aroung 15 in quarter. BUT I think there are alot of over exagurated HP ## in the diesel industry granted the torque is there BUT the mathmatics dont always add up to BIG HP. remember HP is Torque X RPM / 5252 in an engine that only turns 3400 RPM it is HARD to get HP ## above 500 UNLESS their torque curves get into upper RPM ranges of the engines.for example... say you have Cummins with 1000 ftlbs. @ 2000RPM and a 3200 RPM redline has 875 ft lbs 875X3200 =2800000 / 5252 Equals Only 533HP... and there ARENT that many engines with 500 hp out htere in p/u so micheal you DONT have 780 hp... 780 ftlbs MAYBE...tyhere is a difference... Torque and RPM make HP not torque alone.

[Michael Dixon]

I was actually being conservative for this post, It probably has 825+. There is a formula that gives an estimate for weight and speed in the quater. I know I have a 502/ 502 crate motor in a truck that only weighs 5000 lbs and it wont break out of the 13's. A viper has 500+ hp and weighs half what I do and you really don't think I have a great increase in hp over him? I've run several and they don't like it. I ran one of the new viper trucks with the same hp as the viper also and outran him by 2 secs. I'm no exception there are 6 trucks( gm) in the US that run sub 12's that are everyday work trucks. As far as ford and dodges,I still have 6 on the farm...the reason is that I couldn't get a reasonable price for them at trade in ...hence gm is what I drive. As far as torque, I can promise you its above 1100. I haven't dynoed mine but I have a similiar setup as some others that have. (www.dieselplace.com) I don't think you realize what it takes to move 3and 1/2 tons that quick. Someone that has more drag racing history might can comment on this. Picture this: a five hundred horse camaro pulling another camaro thru the quarter(same weight as me) wouldn't break the 13's probably not even the 14's. If you go to the website, I have as much as the quadzilla truck and Michael Tomac's truck. Do a search, I'm sure they have dynoed theirs. This post wasn't to be in an argument about horsepower , it was giving a valid opinion of why I like driving what I drive. Trust me I've had them all on the farm and I know what really works for us. They all have their ups and downs. The ford has more room. The dodge is cheaper to upkeep. And the chevy has the best resale. If you trade alot chevy is the way to go in my opinion. I also dont like shifting gears and ford and dodge transmission will not hold up with the allison. Pulling the loads we do...peanuts cotton ,1600 gal tanks. 38ft goosenecks always overloaded, we never had the first ford or dodge make it thru 2 years without a tranny. We've had 14 duramaxes on since they came out without any transmission trouble whatsoever. As a matter of fact other than a turbo that me and bud light overboosted, the only thing we had was injector cup seals leaking on one truck(recall)Again just my opinion. By the way the only ford I know of in the 11's is a full modified stripped twin turboed CUMMINS(not a powerstroke) :eek:

[150aintenuff]

I wasnt arguing the torque facts BUT in diesel drags its the TORQUE of the engine that moves it down the track not the HP Torque is what turns the drivelines and transmission under acceleration off the line and in drags it is the Torque you need, that is why your 502 crate engine wont run with the duramax... the duramax has more bottom end and VERY LITTLE top end... In a diesel the "topend" is VERY limited due to the restrictions of RPM based on the design of the engine.... you can have all the HP in the world and go nowhere because of not being able to get the engine in the powerband.. but you can never have to much torque... JUST LIKE BOATS it is the TORQUE that gets things moving in a hurry... not HP Torque = TWISTING FORCE HP= straight line force

Dyno the mota and be ready to be surprised... it wont have as much HP as you think... torque yes hp no. its mathmatics and to get 850 hp @ 3400 RPM would take 1313 ft lbs of torque AT REDLINE!!!! sorry dont buy it.. maybe off idle at torque peak but not that high of RPM

[Michael Dixon]

If you go to the webpage I gave, do a search and you'll see the guys that I'm compared to are racing to see who gets to 1000hp first. I'd have to put my money on Quads truck seeing as he builds most of the computer programs for all of us. I think you have to be a member to log on but it'd be worth it if you like diesels. They have a section for all types of diesels. Some of the most respected people in the business are on there everyday.Kind of like sandf of diesels. To give you an idea of my setup, its the same as michael tomac except that I have injectors and methanol injection and run a little more nitrous. If you do a search on him or quad you'll see they are claiming 900 hp. Is it true? I don't know. But I do know that 11.90's is true and any way you calculate that come up with some serious hp. By the way the program I run removes the rev limiter and it pulls hard to 4500. Go give the website a look there are a bunch of good folks on there and they love diesels as much as we love boats. :D

[150aintenuff]

sorry michael I still dont buy the HP # and heres why... looking at micheal tomac's setup IF and thats a BIG if ALL of his Add on electronics Stacked PERFECTLY with out N2O he would be at 700 HP thats 310 stock hp +215 hp chip+150 hp edge chip+duramaximizer which at this point of modification WILL NOT gain 100 more HP due to COMPUTER ALREADY being Near optimisation. and then a single shot of N2O Also doesnt give "rated HP" in diesel Either so MY gues is he is around 750 on the juice @ peak... I havent seen a dyno sheet on his rig yet but I personally cant add up to 850+

That isnt saying Im wrong i just cant get the numbers to add up in my head...Sorry..

[Michael Dixon]

Tomac,Quad, and my truck are three of the hottest that I know of but I've been out of it awhile. Tomac is running as good of times as I am and I use a little propane, a little methanol injection, and bigger injectors that he doesn't use. I guess he actually has a better setup than I do to run the same times without the other drugs. I'd be curious what the calculated hp would be for those times. I'm sure I saw it posted somewhere. It may be on that sight. Nitrous gives eight tenths to a full second. Quad claims that a bigger turbo will do the same as the nitrous but I haven't changed mine.

[STV_Keith]

say you have Cummins with 1000 ftlbs. @ 2000RPM and a 3200 RPM redline has 875 ft lbs 875X3200 =2800000 / 5252 Equals Only 533HP... and there ARENT that many engines with 500 hp out htere in p/u

Well, I think you're wrong there. I have a LOT of customers with 500rwhp trucks. Here's my daily driver:

http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/511-hp-eth.jpg

There's a powercurve of a Cummins

[STV_Keith]

In a diesel the "topend" is VERY limited due to the restrictions of RPM based on the design of the engine.

Actually, the limiting factor with a diesel to turn RPM isn't the design of the engine, but rather the ability of the fuel to be injected quickly. Diesels are limited by how many crank degrees they can inject fuel into the cylinder.

[150aintenuff]

the ability to inject fuel is Part of the design...


nice dyno sheet... even of a cummins... But in With the fact that there are about 4 to 1 stoct trucks to turned up trucks and even fewer of them above the 500 hp mark Of every Diesel Pickup on the road the percentage isnt that high... I do know of a few over 400 that arent "brand New" Inever said it couldnt be done and you have proven that it can AND that the numbers I used were fairly accurate in example.

as for 750-900 hp it gets hard to do without exotic fuels and N2O...
Once again STV nice dyno sheet.

[STV_Keith]

The ability to inject the fuel is a limitation in the fuel pump, not the engine. With a different pump, different things can happen. ;)

I know I get to see more of the "maniacs"...occupational hazard I guess. :D There are a LOT over 500hp these days. Seems the average guy wants to be 400+ instead of back in the day where 300 was plenty.

Very few make the big numbers without nitrous. Here's a dyno sheet from one of our mules. 12v Cummins, 5-speed. SINGLE TURBO, #2 only!

http://www.speedcraving.com/keith/799-joe.jpg

[Flashypaint]

Guys i live in north Tx and Quad and several of the other guys that run around here have 900hp plus trucks they run on a track three miles from my house.We have a Outlaw diesel drag assoc. No i dont push big #s with my cummins maybe around 400hp but i do go to the dyno days we have and ive seen the #s there running. There is also a several guys from around here and Oklahoma that are running twins and one im sure of bumps right over 1000hp with a 95 model Dodge. Automatic if you can believe that.
STV Keith may know who im talking about hes from Mcallester OK ?

[STV_Keith]

Guys i live in north Tx and Quad and several of the other guys that run around here have 900hp plus trucks they run on a track three miles from my house.We have a Outlaw diesel drag assoc. No i dont push big #s with my cummins maybe around 400hp but i do go to the dyno days we have and ive seen the #s there running. There is also a several guys from around here and Oklahoma that are running twins and one im sure of bumps right over 1000hp with a 95 model Dodge. Automatic if you can believe that.
STV Keith may know who im talking about hes from Mcallester OK ?

I'd have to see a dyno sheet to believe 900+rwhp. I have not heard of anyone up there that has proven it on a dyno yet. Lots of claims though.

[150aintenuff]

thats my problem I havent seen any proof of BIG # with the exception of what was posted here. I need proof in my mind.... EVEN if it is True...


STV NICE pull.... how much$$$ to get a 1996 PSD to 500 hp?

[STV_Keith]

I've never seen a non intercooled PSD North of 400, much less 500. The fuel systems just don't lend themselves to making power like a Cummins does. If ANYONE can do it, it would be Steve Cole at TTS. 310-669-8101.

[Michael Dixon]

What kind of times are you getting from the 799 hp truck? The horsepower figures I guessed at were with nitrous, propane, and h20/methanol injection. I dont know how much they add but its pretty sporty.(150 to 175 if I had to guess) I haven't been keeping up with them lately but what is Quad's best time now? Speaking of cummins, What s the best replacement turbo for a 12v? It's got the big plate and is turned a good bit past that but its seems to need some more air(boost)Its probably around 375 to 400 right now. Thanks

[STV_Keith]

The 799hp truck is a 5-speed - not conducive to drag passes. :) It never hit the strip. Our 740hp 24v did run 11.96 @ 110 back in May of 2002.

The turbo sizing depends on how much power it makes. If 375-400 is the RWHP figure, a Jammer would work well. If you're planning to make more power later, then we might consider something else - depending on how much more you want to make.

[Flashypaint]

I thought yall were talking about Cummins or Duramax.
At the last dyno i attended there was only one PSD that made somewhere around 4?? cant remember .

[150aintenuff]

I own a PSD and was asking Keith if 500 was possible.

sorry if it was off topic

[Flashypaint]

I'd have to see a dyno sheet to believe 900+rwhp. I have not heard of anyone up there that has proven it on a dyno yet. Lots of claims though.
Here is the results of the dyno day we had ,some of the guys were spraying methanol/water injection but no nitrous or propane. Why is 900rwhp so hard to believe on the bottle ? And seriously who sprays on a dyno? unless you want to pretzel your driveshaft .........there is no control of driveline slop on a diesel on deceleration and it tears **** up ,im sure your already now this.
another one for you is 20# bottle 2 1/8mile passes how many HP of juice does that add up to?

Horsepower
Torque
Brand

125
245
Ford

348
647
Chevy

594
1200+
Chevy

320
670
Dodge

385
577
Ford

404
751
Dodge

280
710
Dodge

430
944
Dodge

386
902
Dodge

331
550
Chevy

494
947
Chevy

309
652
Ford

367
597
Ford


793
1200+
Dodge


294
516
Ford


394
N/A
Dodge

411
818
Dodge

207
N/A
Ford

549
N/A
Chevy

276
531
Ford

435
815
Chevy

226
372
Ford

371
N/A
Dodge

234
489
Dodge

357
801
Dodge

[150aintenuff]

as far as ford trucks Im not to bad

330hp 660 torque... in a non intercooled truck.

nice to know :)

but tem dodges sure can make the power

[150aintenuff]

Horsepower
Torque
Brand

125
245
Ford



WHAT WAS THAT?????? 245 torque????? thats not a PSD is it????? I feel sorry for that guy

[1BadAction]

seen something funny today. a 95 or so camaro is in the left lane in front of me, and we pull up to a stop light next to a duramax 3500 SRW, with a 20ft or so flats boat in tow. now, I can hear the camaro revving on the truck, it has z28 badges, and sure sounds like a v8... but I can barely hear it above the duramax spooling the turbo against his brakes. long story short, the duramax/boat combo walked the camaro like it was sitting still for about 500 ft untill he hit the brakes. it was the funniest thing i have seen in awhile, but the side of the poor boat was black as coal.

thinking about it, that truck had to have more than 3 times the torque of the car. which would be in the neighborhood of 800lb feet.

[Flashypaint]

WHAT WAS THAT?????? 245 torque????? thats not a PSD is it????? I feel sorry for that guy
OOPS ,sorry i messed up that was a BMW M3 some guy ran before we came in.

[Michael Dixon]

For kicks, go to the website I talked about and do a search.(dyno horsepower) I took the time and a truck set up identical to mine except he has stock injectors,doesn't run propane, and is a dually pulled a 795/1502(superdiesel I think is his name on there) The cummins are still king but given the amout of time the duramax has been out its pretty sporty!!! I think superdiesel still only runs low 12's but its probably because of the extra weight. :D :D

[STV_Keith]

Why is 900rwhp so hard to believe on the bottle ? And seriously who sprays on a dyno? unless you want to pretzel your driveshaft .........there is no control of driveline slop on a diesel on deceleration and it tears **** up ,im sure your already now this.
another one for you is 20# bottle 2 1/8mile passes how many HP of juice does that add up to?


I'm not saying it's hard to believe. I'm just saying that NO ONE has ever posted a real dyno sheet showing this. We have sprayed trucks on the dyno making just under 800rwhp. You're not going to do anything to the driveshaft that wouldn't have 100x more chance of doing on the road. The dyno has less load than the same truck on the road.

Yeah, and I've had plenty of dyno experience. Besides the 5 years here at Diesel Dynamics, I worked for Dynojet (the dyno manufacturer) for 5 years as well.

Oh, and who sells a 20# bottle? I've not seen anything between 15# and 25#.

[CDave]

NOS sells a 20# bottle.

[STV_Keith]

Thanks CDave!