hydraulic steering

[djtalon]

i recently aquired a 79 hydrostream vector with a 175 mer. my question is i have a seastar hydraulic steering system, would this work well on this boat or would it be dangerous. on the instructions it says not for boats that exceed 7o mph and not for surfacing drives. i also have a hydraulic jack plate on the boat. any help is appreciated.

thanks
dave

[us1]

I have used this system and if it gets low on fluid, (blown seal, leaky fitting, wore line), the boat will loose all steering instantly. Personally this scars the hell out of me. One other thing less dangerous but annoying is the steering wheel will never center to the same position which make it impossible to use any trim or jack controls on the wheel unless you go with the wireless type that cost a fortune.

[nelsoncat]

I have posted the same questions and have gotten similar answers. I didn't know that they (hydraulic) were not recommended for speeds above
70. I have a 77 Vector/175 Merc, with dual rideguide and new cables. It has lots of play and gets scary above 55. I wonder if it would be better if one cable pulled and one pushed. I really thought the hydraulic setup would be the cats ass but now I'm not sure. There is one article on Hydraulic conversion in a V King on the IHR (International Hydrostream Registry). Maybe we can getsome more responses on this matter.
Nelsoncat

[us1]

A push pull system properly adjusted should be more than adequate.

[Raceman]

Mercury has always recommended that both cables pull. It's safer that way. If they're properly adjusted it shouldn't have play. Do you have solid mounts or could sloppy mounts be confused for steering play. The Mirage I had several years ago had a SeaStar and I liked it. It was a 100+ MPH boat. As John pointed out, the steering never centers, but there are several options on the market that will solve that problem. Mine had the Mach wireless system but although real trick, real expensive. The dual lever (like a turn signal lever on each side of the wheel) is one alternative. It is true that a ruptured line would cause all the steering to go instantly, but I've never heard of it happening. I have seen failures in both Rideguide (single) and cable/pulley systems (lack of maintenance) One other comment, the SeaStar requires bleeding right by the book or it will be sloppy also.

[Kirkt]

I have the same system on my bullet and I love it.I run in the uper 90s.Something can go wrong with any setup. Hydraulic is a lot easyer to drive and safer.I would not have a boat with out it.

[Rickracer]

...and dual same side in one. I prefer the dual opposed. I think for a Vector, or any really lightweight Vpad, hydraulic may not be sensitive enough to give you a feel for impending blowout. It will definitely take away the torque steer though, not by eliminating it, but by merely masking it. I beleive torque steer should be countered by proper setup, i.e., torque tab, prop, etc. Once torque steer and steering play is eliminated, the differences between hydraulic and cable steering become much less critical, and probably, as US1 says, safer, with cable steering. :cool:

[ProComp]

I had a V-king that ran around 80 with dual cable steering, cables coming from one side. My gut feeling is that on a pad boat you need to feel torque to drive it. Not sure if you would be able to feel enough through a hydraullic system to work the wheel to fly the boat. Hydraullic on a tunnel is nice.

[us1]

That is one point I didn’t not bring up. You loose all feeling for the boat on a hydrologic system, which makes it far more dangerous and harder to drive, sure the wheel turns easily, but that has nothing to do with it driving easily. Another point I’d like to bring up, I know I’ve told this story before but, I have a tunnel boat with both cables pulling and while racing a jet boat at the Colorado river, both cable ends popped off sending the boat sideways at 95 MPH. The ends are only pressed on! The boat was off the water due to the air going under it for a while, but when it hit it barrel rolled three times. Luckily my only injury was embarrassment Never again will I ride in a boat set up like this.

[Todd]

I use the seastar unit on my Liberator. One unit controls 2-2.5's and I have never had any problems. It is easy to inspect every time I put fuel in.

Some good points were made in earlier posts regarding mounts, feel, pads, and tunnels.

If your boat is pulling to either side, this will only mask the problem, not fix it.



Todd

[Kirkt]

I agree with most of what you guys are saying but it sounds like some... of you havent driven a boat with hydraulics.I thought the same thing untill I bought the boat I now have.It does hide pull or torque,but so what ,if your boat is running in a strate line safely,what diferance does it make ,this is why its easer to drive,not because it turns easyer. At 85 MPH I can drive with one hand on the wheel in 2'chop if I want. .For some reason it cuts down on chine walking causing you to drive less.For me, this,in a way is less fun to drive.I have had blow outs, 4 times [at 87MPH] and for some reason the hard right turn after blow out was not as bad.No one was thrown out or hurt .I do agree you lose some fell but not all.The best thing to do is drive some ones boat that has hydraulics and decide for your self.Im not trying to offend any one and I know I have less experiance than most of you,but it sounds like its being said that hydraulics are dangerous and have no value, and thats just not the case.Have a good week.... Im going fishing!

[ProComp]

I really can't see it being V-bottom pad boat.

[Raceman]

The Bullet is definately a pad boat that requires driving. John, all the Merc service school instructors I've talked to say that Merc strongly recommends both cables on the same side. (right with right rotation gearcase) Although I have seen a couple of steering cables fail over the years, they've always been broken cables. I've never seen or heard of the end coming off one.......very strange indeed.

[us1]

Raceman, I still have the ends in my toolbox. I will post a picture later. I couldn’t believe it either, but it happened, and the boat rolled three times. After that I changed to the hydraulic system. I drove it for a while until I got sick of not being ably to feel the boat and really drive it. Being a Formula One driver it is vary important for me to be ably to feel the boat and have it in full control at all times. Also it is an advantage in the time it takes to get around the course. I guess this all caries over into my pleasure boats; I am just a hard critic who wants nothing but the best and the fastest.

[Raceman]

John, several years back (probably over 5) several formual 1 teams were experimenting with hydraulic steering. It was more like a ram or two running parallel to the centerline of the boat, rather than mounted perpindicular on the front of the engine as the SeaStar is. I remember one of the guys telling me at Augusta, where I was admiring such a unit, that it was several tenths slower around the racecourse than the cables and pulleys. I never could make any sense out of the concept. Explanation???????????

[us1]

I have never driven an F1 boat with hydraulic steering but the ability to feel when the prop and scag are in the water or out of the water gives you a huge advantage when turning the boat in chop. You will be able to set and turn on the exact second when you have the most bite and control the boat more accurately in the turn, that feel is heavily transmitted through the steering wheel. You can also feel the prop slip when jacked too high for the particular chop you are running on by the back and forth movement and loose feeling in the wheel. Not only will the proper jack height allow you to run more efficiently but you will loose water pressure and burn up the motor if jacked too high it chop. I have to say I would like to try it next year at the Parker Enduro with those one-mile strengths for two hours. The steering torque is unbelievable with the big wheels and motor up as high as you can get away with. My Silverwing has the hydraulic assist which works pretty good. It runs two cables and hydraulic. You can feel the boat great.

[LakeRacer99]

Go with the Hydraulic Set-up...

I had a V-king/175 I put the juice steering in and loved it, the only annoying thing was the wheel and trim buttons. Oh, and it is not real fun pulling the old cables out though. I used the turn signal switches from teleflex and got used to using them. My boat would run 80 with no walk or torque. Even before the juice.
I have the same setup now in my Mirage/260 and have no probs.
If you don't want to spend the $, It sounds like you can work on your set-up maybe...balance the weight (including driver) on centerline, Adjust the slack out of your cables, and make sure your mounts are solid and no play, raise the motor on transom.
Good luck to ya.
LR99

[Kirkt]

Thats is one bad ass pic of your double Merc tunnel dose it run with that much lift at top speed, or is the pic of the boat coming out of the hole

[us1]

That picture was taken last weekend at 114 MPH, it usually runs a little lower but I was hanging it on the edge for the camera. Look at the roost, it’s blowing out the back 100 ft, you know its moving.

[B.Leonard]

....hehehehe! :)

Great picture John! You can probably see the other bank through the that tunnel! Awesome!

As I close in on destroying my boat's standing top speed wall and breaking 50mph, I'm starting to wonder about the single Teleflex cable that is in there. What is the limit for that system?

I have no doubt that 50+ is around the corner and with a wheel change I could get a few more from the Lund. I'm enjoying the learning process! Two weeks and the boat will be back on the water as a center console, 1 battery and my butt. That's it. 750lbs lighter and the remaining weight shifted 30% rearward. The 2.6 jacked up and back 5.5". The 2.6 should run away with 19" prop no problemo, and I'll be shopping for props! ;) Might not need a 4 blade now.

-bll

[us1]

It looks like its time to get that second cable.

[keith]

With the pros and cons of all three systems being listed above I would like to ad nothing feels better then cable pully on my old race boat however unpractical on my streamer, I ran opposed cables for two years which were nice and tight and looked butt ugly however to the point seastar steering (teleflex) is messy with hoses racking across your boat I have since switched to using Hynautic systems they are a very clean installation hoses can be mounted on either side with only the ram moving (somewhat limited range like all hydraulic systems) ps. the tilt version has a bit of slop at the steering wheel which my customers tell me goes away after being run for a while, I'm not sure about that however

[PFord]

Once you drive a boat with it on there you will wonder what took you so long to get it. It makes driving more pleasurable and is perfectly safe. Bullet Boats went exclusivly to SeaStar Hydraulic as well as most other bass boat companies. The Hydrostream is not a bass boat but most bass boats including the Bullet is a Pad-V hulled boat similar to the HydroStream. What do you think the chances of totally breaking a hose off are, probably slim to none or about as likely as breaking a steel steering cable, unless the hose is completely broken off you will not loose your steering it will just get real sloppy and soft. If anything is going to happen to it your hose it may develop a leak which would make the steering sloppy but not totally fail. Paul Nichols drove a Bullet 20CC to over 117mph with hydraulic steering and said that he never would have driven a cable steering boat that fast. I too was a skeptic until I put it on mine and the boat is much easier to drive and yes you loose most of the torque but there is some feel just nothing like cable steering. It will take some seat time but you will be glad you did it. Just imagine cruising at 80 with just one hand on the steering wheel or no hands if you choose.:D