Tonque too light

[MarkHP]

I just bolted my latest motor on , 86 Johnson V4 with 6" setback, on my 'Stream Vista (same hull as V-King but different deck). My trailer now is unbalanced, about 70 Lb tonque weight. I can move the boat about 6" forward to gain a little more weight, how much do you guys figure this would give me? I have no idea where the CG of the boat is . I could also move the axil back, but again by how much? I figure I need about 150-170 LB on the tonque. Any ideas?

[motexas]

Someone else may chime in on this one, but I would try moving the boat forward in increments and then use a scale to weigh the tong. I would save moving the axle back as the last resort.

MO

[Balzy]

will probably give you what you need or more. Just move the bow stop and crank the boat ahead. It will do more than you think.

[gaineso]

Keep the transom directly over the rear bunk supports on the trailer and then move the axle back. It won't take much to get the weight up. My rig is about 2300 lbs ready to tow and I have about 120 lbs on the tongue. Tracks great up to about 80. haven't gone beyond that. Of course, my tow vehicle is about twice the weight of the boat, Grand Marquis or Durango. Keep the tire pressures up too. Makes a huge difference.

[MarkHP]

OK I moved the boat 6" forward and gained about 25 Lb, now 95 LB still too light. Gaineso, the transom is about 15" aft of the bunk support (trailer not that long). I now have two options 1) move the axil back (any suggestions on how much) or 2) lengthen the draw bar to be able to move the boat forward more. Any calls on which would be best? I am aiming for 170 LB.

[gaineso]

Just my opinion but it looks to me like your trailer is way to short. Having that much overhang is putting a lot of strain on the transom and bottom structure of your boat, especially on a bumpy road. You really need to get some support under that transom. You may have to bite the bullet and get a different trailer.

[Rickracer]

A few years on that trailer, and that boat will have the hook from hell. If you can't extend the tongue far enough to get the transom centered over the last crossmember, and the whole package balanced, you'll need another trailer. :cool:

[MarkHP]

I could change the draw bar (or whatever the piece the hitch attatches to is called) for one that is 20" longer, it's only a 3X3 box tube, drilled for the hitch, and attached with u-clamps to a cross member of angle steel. This would allow me to move the boat so the transome is over the support, I could also adjust the axil position to get the right balance. What you guys think? Is there any issues with this, ie draw bar too long?

[MarkHP]

Here is a picture of the current setup (different motor). I was thinking of changing the front section by one that is 20 " longer. This wouyld alow me to move the boat forward. I notice that several people with V-Kings (same hull as mine) have the bow higher on the trailer, kind of angled up. Is this a good idea. Suggestions please guys..... I realy dont want to have to get a new trailer as I think this one is salvageable (spelling?)

[LaserModVee]

I would extend the tongue further as you have suggested above.
I've seen this done befre with much success.

The general rule of thumb is 10% to 15% of total trailer load on the tongue where the ball meets the trailer.
I.E.; 2500 lb loaded boat on trailer=250 to 375 lbs of tongue weight.

I agree with the rest of these guys as well, get some bunks under the transom. Hopefully extending the tongue and pulling the boat forward will get you there.

[gaineso]

I don't think you need to go more than 7% to 10% tongue weight. The best thing to do is get up around 100 lbs and try it. One thing you do not want to do is exceed the tongue weight capacity of your tow vehicle. That can result in structural damage to the vehicle. Get about 100 lbs and try it carefully. If that's not enough, increase it by 25 at a time until it tows well.

[LaserModVee]

7%-10% would probably be OK.

I was just going on what the trailer manufacturers recommend.
It's always worked well for me on heavy loads.
I'd say with a reasonably light load like most boats found on this site with a single outboard motor, it isn't as critical, as long as there is weight on the tongue and the trailer tows straight at speed, (no wagging on the highway).

Got to thinking about it and I know my Laser has less than 100 lbs. tongue weight. The boat, trailer, and motor certainly weigh more than 1000 lbs as well. (Less than 10% tongue weight).
It tows just fine.

[Glenn]

MarkHP,

Tongue weight on my trailer was a little heavy. I moved the the axle forward about 5 inches and I think it changed about 25-30 lbs. Not sure exactly how much, it was a while ago.

Glenn

[sho305]

It depends on how your bunks are, yours look curved. They should be fit to the hull too. I always set them so the hull has 1-2" of bunk extending behind the transom. Then I know the transom is all on the bunks and supported for no hook. (On the trailers I have had, the rear bunk support would then be under or very close to the transom where all the weight is; as the bunks can flex some if the support is not right there at the transom) The bow I let it go where it wants, then set the winch support to just press up on it a little. Trying to get the boat to lay on the bunks flat and add a little support at the bow for overhang. I've had boats that the winch pulled the transom up off the bunks when you tighten it also. But sometimes you need to pull the bow down a little if you have a tilting trailer to take the play out or it rattles on the road; then I store it with the pressure off the winch-maybe an inch out. It needs to be laying flat and supported everywhere evenly. My boats spend 99.9% of their time on the trailer if I figure out the time. After that I move the axle for balance.

On my 16' and 17' hulls, I can lift the tongue myself if I have to. So they must be around 100lbs. They track great. I fact I think they are as much weight to lift without the boat on them. The tires can make a difference with pressure and type. I get rid of any boat trailer without springs as it beats the hull up. If I put gear in the boat I put it forward to haul. I've always been told 10% for the tongue and would guess 7% was fine when you are under 1000lbs or so unless it acts funny. As soon as I get a boat I'm going to keep with 150 or more hp I'll put two axles on it. They are nice. Not really needed for a lighter boat, but nice for bad ramps and blowouts too. It would be easier on my golfcart to pull out of the water...:D

[Rickracer]

...a 20" tongue extension would be just what the doctor ordered. Then move the axle to get the balance you are comfortable with. Actually , you could go considerably longer if necessary, but it would become more difficult to get the tongue weight you desire the farther you extend the tongue. I can't tell from the pic, but if the trailer doesn't have four bunks, that would be a good idea also, 2 near the center, just off the pad, and 2 more out near the gunwhales. :cool:

Good points SHO :cool: FYI: a dual axle trailer will be a bear to turn with a golf cart, as it was with my yard tractor. :eek: :confused: :D :cool:

[sho305]

Hmmm, didn't think of that:eek: It seems to pull ok on the flat area I have there so I could get by. I don't have to knife it in anyplace difficult. I think the 4 tires would help to stay out of the holes in the lake, that is my problem until I get a bigger motor in the cart....:D

[chris_lacey]

Hey Mark, I was looking at the picture of your rig and wondered, instead of adding 20" to the tongue, why not just make a more vertical winch stand that would allow you to bring the boat further forward? I've got some pictures of my winch tower at home, I try to post one in the next day or so.

[MarkHP]

Hey Chris, I was thinking of doing something like that, I've only got to move everything about 10 " forward. If you got some examples of yours for reference that would be good.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

[175checkmate]

I had the same trouble with mine once the jackplate was installed. The front was way to light. I just moved the tower farther forward. I do have an advantage and that my trailer was made for a much larger boat.

[Psyco]

You want a 60/40 weight distribution. 60% forward,40% aft.

Normally this would intail placing the axle dead center and moving it back about 1 foot. Since you have most of the weight aft on a bote this quick rule doesn't work. You will have to weigh your rig to find out the true weight, then place a scale under the tongue(they actually make a TW scale) and move the axle till you achieve a 60/40 split.

[captcarb]

Try just moving the winch stand forward and cut off the piece that will then hit the hatch of the car.

Jim

[crazy horse]

The way I added weight to my trailer was to make the tongue longer and make it out of 5/16 wall stock. That stuff weighes alot more than that thin tube that trailer companys use.

[Techno]

I would move it forward as far as possible per captcarb. Extend the bunks if needed and if more tongue weight was needed add it to the tongue rather than rebuilding the tongue or shifting the axle. Literaly add weights of some kind. The % thing is a guide and your trailer won't tow any better with a number than it will if you try it.

Mine towed Ok but not great with 30lbs on the tongue. Towed like crap when the boat shifted and put a negative on the tongue. High speed deacceleration caused wander. Low speed didn't matter- this was with a negative tongue weight.
With engine off, the tongue weight went up from 30lbs to around 240lbs(stopped picking it up when I found that out!). And with no boat on the trailer the tongue weight is again enormous 160-200?

Moving my boat about 3" makes a substantial change in tongue weight-or handling.

[Rickracer]

It won't hurt to have a bit more distance between you and the boat, especially at some crappy ramps. Move the boat forward as far as necessary to get the balance you need. I'm with Psyco on the weight distribution, you really want 60/40. This will make towing, stopping, and turning more smooth and predictable. :cool:

[baddjonny]

Tring to find a place that sells the box tubing around long island

jon b

[crazy horse]

Most steel companys will have sq. tube by the foot . Unless you trailer has some off size it will be a common size tube. You should be able to buy it with 3/16 to 3/8 walls. Most trailers have a cheap peice of 1/8 tube, I added two feet to my trailer years ago to get the wheel base longer and added weight to my tongue by using thick wall tube stock.

[Rickracer]

...and get a foot or two of it. Then get however much you will need of the same size. By slipping the smaller size inside, you will more than double the strength of the joint, adding some weight at the same time. Will you be welding or bolting it together? You might want to pick up some "cold galvanizing" spray at the same time either way, to touch up the cosmetics of the job. :cool:

[crazy horse]

If possible replace the whole tongue, steel tube isn't that pricey. The biggest pain is when they weld the hitch to the tongue.

[Ted Stryker]

I agree with the percentages given for the ideal tongue weight... My opinion is that the less amount of total weight that you are towing, the less you trailer balance becomes critical... I have a 16' Allison that has had a 2.5 Mercury on it with 6" of set back.. The tougue weight is probably less than 10 lbs. and it tows perfectly.. Once again that is not recommended, but it shows what you can get by with.. By the way with your boat extending past your trailer and your tires pumped up hard, yor boat ain't feeling any love..;)

[sho305]

Your tow vehicle makes a lot of difference also. I worked at a place and drove F350 dually diesels, I could load a 22' bed utility trailer any way I pleased with up to 10,000lbs and it made little difference. The three axles on the trailer helped also, but even with a twin it mattered little if you backloaded it unless you made a sharp turn on gravel. When I bought my 19' V8 I/O, a friend towed it back with an old chevy and it pulled so nice at 70mph. I hooked it to my ranger and did not dare go over 45mph! After fitting new higher pressure tires and a rear sway bar it was much better. It even had extra springs in it to start with. Weak sidewall tires are not good on the back of a tow vehicle, and lots of light trucks have them for a better ride now. With the 3/4 ton truck I have now I hardly notice that 19' behind me.

Otherwise go find some farm country, and find a welding shop there. They should be able to fab up your trailer reasonable to what you want. Like I posted here someplace, lots of people here chop the tongue off so they can store the boat in a garage easier plus it is great security if you toss that end in your house. They run a tube inside a couple foot and have no problems with it using a pin or bolts w/lock nuts when towing.

[ghind]

A friend used to have a very light ball weight and never had a problem until one day, he was towing his boat very slowly down a gravel hill. His kids were in it (they were only going a short distance at slow speed on a private road) and the boat trailler jacknifed and took over the whole rig. He was lucky, he thought it was going over the bank and knew it would have seriously hurt the kids. It didn't go, but it was close. His vehicle was adequate (not rated to double or anything light that) but still, why not do it right?

I've read quite a number of times that 5-10% is ideal and did a quick net search to confirm . On the net I found a lot of "10% is ideal" and the odd 10-15% recommendation. 10% would be good I think. Too much more and then you need load leveling hitches etc as it takes too much weight off the front wheel.

I had to move my boat backwards on my trailler as the ball weight was way too much. We had the winch support bar angle changed to help this.

Also, your trailler seems quite small for the job. There isn't much support at all for the front half of the boat. I know it shouldn't need as much support as the transom but maybe look how you can give it some support. Do you have any weight in the front of the boat? A nose fuel tank? That would make it more urgent but maybe a couple of height adjustable rollers would be a good plan?

[shadowman]

Change the angle of the bunks and easily get the boat up where it needs to be. From the pic. it looks like the bow is to low, When you tighten the winch down, Is the bow eye tight to the stop on the trailer? The stop apears to be sitting in front of the Bow and not under the bow like it should be. I like the idea about the four bunks also.

Whatever you do, Get that transom sitting on the bunks:)