260 DOA at boat ramp

[Raceman]

Decided to run my Red STV today for the first time since March. Back it down ramp, hit starter. RRRRRRRRRRR........nothing, not even a spit. Pulled it up and plugged timing light on #1, no fire. Plugged timing light on #2, no fire. Both banks dead. Unlplugged main plug and jumped solenoid with screwdriver while holding timing light. No fire. Sumbitch ran fine in March, dead'ern Gary Condit's political career now. Haven't done anything to it since except unhook battery then, hook it back up now. Any suggestions? (Halfassed is bringin' the meter tomorrow night, but I'm curious NOW)

[PropWash]

I once experienced a problem like this - very puzzling for quite some time.

It was the kill switch - I had pulled it off when I sat down in the drivers seat.:o

[us1]

That happened to me at the Regionals 10 minutes before the race on the warm up ramp. We frantically changed both switch boxes and luckily it fired up. The problem was a loose ground, fried both switch boxes. The weird thing is it ran perfectly the heat before, we shut it off and then when we went to start it both boxes were bad.

[Raceman]

Holy cow John, I hope I didn't bust both switch boxes. I've never had much electrical trouble before, thankfully, because I aint real sharp with electricals. Propwash, by unplugging the main plug at the powerhead and bumping the solenoid, I eliminated any kill switch, ignition switch, and front harness possibilities. V6 electricals work by grounding components to kill the spark, rather than completing circuits through the harness as the old inline/distributor motors did.

[us1]

You didn’t hurt anything by cranking it over with the motor harness unplugged if that is what you are concerned about. I time the motors I built in the shop just like that before I install them. I was just saying if both switch boxes aren’t firing it’s possible they both went bad because of something like a broken, looses or disconnect ground. It’s probably the worst care scenario but it did happen to me. I you do find it’s the switch boxes check the grounds very carefully before you through on some new ones.

[T-REX]

If ya jus look at'em once in a while an don't us'em often, they gunna be gone when ya do want to use'em...I had a stator that I took off a 2.4 I dismantled for parts...motor ran great, good spare parts right!!! Ole RiverRats 260 wuz hav'in stator problems(low speed coils went away)...I took it off the shelf after about 6 months, and installed it on Rat's motor so we could go ride...No fire..Nun...Wen't over to Larry's and picked up a new one and she fired right up...layed on the shelf and went bad...U figger...Az they say down yher...Use it, or loose it!!!REX:D

[TTriton]

I've had stators go bad myself sitting on the shelf. I would go from one part to the next checking with a DVA / Multimeter narrowing down the possible problems.

[Raceman]

I guess we'll know tomorrow. John, I knew I didn't hurt it turnin' it with the plug unhooked. I was just telling Propwash that I'd spun it with the plug disconnected which would've eliminated the kill switch problem he experienced, and also a bad ignition switch which I had once before on another one. When I first changed over from an inline race motor to a T3 on my Allison in the late 70's, I had it running at the boatramp on the trailer and the ignition switch wouldn't turn it off, and neither would the kill. I still had the old inline killswitch in the system and didn't know the difference at the time. Finally had to kill the fuel pump and let the carbs run outta gas to cut it off. Learned a lot about cuttin V6's off that day. I've seen a number of people over the years hook the kill switches up wrong on em.

[Vecman]

Raceman I had the same happen to me a couple of
weeks ago. Was at the river and boat running good
all of a sudden went dead. Got pulled back and took
back to shop. Like US1 had said ground had broke
at eyelet and fried both switch boxes. Damn that
hurts... Ten cent wire cost a couple of hundred to
repair.

[PropWash]

Raceman - you are right of course that disconnecting the main plug eliminated the kill switch as a potential problem - funny how difficult it is to visualise from the words.

I guess the only point to my post was - it is easy to go looking for something complicated when sometimes the simple stuff is right in front of you. I used to race karts - you would not believe the number of times engines would not start because the kill switch had been switched off just minutes before by the same guy who was now trying to start it!!

Hope you get is straightened out easy.:o

[Raceman]

Yeah, Prop, my luck always is the worst case scenario, so that' about what I'll be expecting. Funny how somethin' runs fine, then next time won't hit a lick. Par for the course, at least as my luck goes anyway. Thanks for responding.

[us1]

Another thing to try. When the bias circuit goes down on one switch box it will shut down the other one as long as they are hooked together. Disconnect the white jumper between the two switch boxes, it’s on the upper left screw, and crank it over with it disconnected. You will probably get spark on one of the two boxes. Again usual it’s a grounding problem that takes them out.

[Raceman]

That's a good idea that I hadn't thought of John. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

[DaveR]

Hi John, Raceman. Unpluging the harness to take the ignition and kill switch etc out of the curcuit I understand. If I'm jumping the solenoid to save time, while check compression for example, I don't unplug it. Am I putting any electronics in danger by doing it that way? Carb or EFI 2.4? Thanks a lot.

[Raceman]

Dave, you're not riskin the electronics, but if you're foolin with a carb motor and it cranks you cant cut it off with the harness unplugged, so get the plug wires off and grounded.

[Raceman]

Halfassed fixed my motor in about 90 seconds and it was an embarrasingly simple problem. Black and yellow wire to rear switch box was grounding to case of front switchbox and as John said it was shuttin em both down. Don't know how it happened, cowl hasn't been off since engine was last run. Now I'm feelin' real happy cause its fixed without expending large sums of cash and real STOOPID at the same time.

[DaveR]

Thanks for the fast reply. And even though I do pull the plugs, thanks for the safety reminder!!

And don't feel bad - I wish all our problems were as easy (read cheap) as that one was.

[Techno]

This is the what the problem is supposed to be.
How often is this , forget simple, cheap!

[us1]

Yes you can jump the solenoid with the harness plug plugged in with out hurting the electronics. Like Raceman said, if timing or doing a compression check, put the plugs in the plug wires and ground them or you have high voltage jumping through everything.

[PropWash]

Just pulling the kill switch (grounding black and yellow wire) will protect everything (electronic and human) during a compression test right??

Obviously this method is no good to check timing and plugs must be grounded for that check.

By the way - I have found one way to get a real reliable strong spark when it seems like there is nothing doing in that department. Just stand in the lake up to your thighs holding the spark plug against the block - look real close for a hint of spark while someone cranks the engine. You WILL feel that ignition system working!!:eek:

[Raceman]

T-Rex's therapist has been makin him do that several times a week Propwash. It seems to be helpin'.