Outboard Drag ?

[Powercat]

I remember being told that most of the drag race Assoc. now have a rule that a Hydro type hull running an outboard had to have the motor locked down straight ahead and run a separate rudder... In reading the ODBA rules I don't find that, but I was wondering what the reason would be for this rule and is it still a requirement in some associations?:confused:

[Bruce Washburn]

Jon Wright or John Sherlock could probably give you the best answer but safety is the main reason. As the speed increases with a hydro the side load on the skeg also increases. The fear is that at speed the skeg would break, which is not a good thing for a hydro. Doing away with the skeg and adding a stonger rudder eliminates the problem. If I am not mistaken the drag hydros and straight away hydros have this type of set up. I do not know at what speed it becomes critical. My estimation would be anything over 140. I would also guess that a hydro would have a much higher side load than a V or tunnel since there is nothing but a skeg and prop in the water when they are running right. Both a V and tunnel have some boat in the water at the tail.

[Fl Boy in ILL]

I believe that in SLDBA and KDBA if you fun 9's you don't need a fixed rudder but if you go to 8s you do. Hydro, Jeff Young should be able to answer this he has been top qualifier the last 2 races in KDBA with his BAD AS_ OMC powered Hydro.

Rick

[JTS Racing]

Rick and Bruce are both correct. The main reason the rudder rule came into effect was people thinning the skegs and weakening them. It was brought into effect after Tom Kunzeman was killed in Augusta. As to my knowledge, all bracket orgs now require a rudder if you run an index faster than 9 seconds. You will find several areas in ODBA that won't pass safety tech in the brackets.

One thing to consider. If you plan on running in the brackets consider the TE or 9 second class. You have NO low speed control with a rudder. On V-drives this is not as much of a problem due to rudder placement as it is able to get some prop wash across it. Not so with an outboard. That is why I have stayed in the 9's.

Jeff

[Powercat]

This is what I have in mind:D

[JTS Racing]

I have looked into the possibility of a twin set up on a Kurtis 501. Any twin would most certainly be quicker than 9's. With two fixed lowers and thrust from 2 props....one rudder.....can you say nightmare to control off plane. Puts a whole new meaning to the phrase "point and shoot". Couldn't run it in ODBA due to two gearcases and props. Would be a fun project though.:cool:

Oh yea.....for the price of a twin outboard setup, I could easily put together a 7 second pro-mod with speeds of around 170. I don't think the outboards would push it that fast with the power to weight ratio.

[Rocket]

You'd have to run that in some IHBA or SDBA event! ODBA is for only one (1) Motor!

[JohnR225]

What's the deal... get that rope up HIGHER ... LOL

[Rocket]

Hydro!

I think the ODBA rules say's only one motor!

It dosn't say anything about two gear case's I think? At least you could run in Unlimited.

[lilabner]

anybody know this boat/driver combo?.....hint...ya gotta be a old fart...another hint...Ron Jones hull w/twin Merc 850's on F quickys

[Powercat]

I Know !!! I Know!!! but only cuz Butch told me before
about this so I will keep quiet !! ( and I do qualify as an
old fart )
Danny Leger

Originally posted by lilabner
anybody know this boat/driver combo?.....hint...ya gotta be a old fart...another hint...Ron Jones hull w/twin Merc 850's on F quickys

[OLEGATOR]

I QUALIFY AS AN OLD FART BUT DIDN' FOLLOW DRAGS THAT MUCH. ONE NAME STICKS OUTOF MY MINE. GARY FURGUSON?

[Mark75H]

Skip Talbot's "Valkyrie" (his round nose Jones)
he had another Jones later, but it was a picklefork.
He ran a pair of 110's on the picklefork, I thought
it might have been called Valkyrie as well, but I'm
not certain


"F Quickys" are better known as "Mark75H" lower units

I think these were '62 100 hp type "Speedmasters" under
modified 100 hp 89ci sixes with Quincy stacks. The mids
(if you could even call them that) were even shorter
than Merc F's

When can we see the rest of the picture(s)?

[lilabner]

nope..I am pretty sure this was the first drag outboard to break 100 officially..he later ran 118.80...quit soon after because he got hurt pretty bad in the Sacramento river race when the ferry tightened up it's cable and he hit it in a triple engine cat w/speedmasters..cut the lowers like a laser...happened in 67..
here's another shot of the boat after going over around 135 at Ron Jones place....he has been making 50 cal rifles since..holds some records there also...in 67, there were 8 drag classes in NDBA..he had the record in 4 of them and had a new single Jones hydro delivered for the others...also raced a Suzuki 100cc 6spd grand prix bike...quite a talented guy...his best buddy was Ted Jones..I had a great time with the both of them...

[lilabner]

75H you are amazing...the motors were trick but the mids looked like the 75H motors I worked on in Miami..I worked on the Spider.. formally owned by Dick Spellman and purchased by Phil Young..and Miss Answerphone owned by Big Red Wilson...there were 5 75H's in Miami..Spellman,Wilson, Booger Red Wahl, Bob "oil guage" Deeson, and one other..just can't remember who..I only have a few more pictures of Valkyrie and none after being converted to a pickel fork..only have one 8mm clip at speed..I spoke with Skip a few months ago..he said he gave the boat back to Mercury when he moved to Nevada and someone else raced it after that..
would love to chat with you sometime..

Butch

[Mark75H]

`

[Mark75H]

no Merc F/75H's here

[Mark75H]

'

[Mark75H]

This is what a Merc F looks like:

(the exhaust outlet is fully above the cav plate)

[lilabner]

75H...yep.. the fog is lifting...thank you for the pictures..as much as I hung out with him I never took pictures..to busy having fun..
he is a great friend...
Butch

[Mark75H]

Tell me more about "..Spellman,Wilson, Booger Red Wahl, Bob "oil guage" Deeson" !!

I knew there were some 75H's in FL..... I think one of the names
ended in "good" or "wood" ..... Haygood?

[lilabner]

Haygood was in Orlando..that's OLEGATORS territory...
the other name could have been Marty Handshaw...he had a F Holt Craft like the Spider...except for Spellman and Wilson the other motors were quickly returned,,,too much motor and money for the others...I have a picture of me in Answerphone when I was 16...which was a cabover and I think built by Art Ribbikey (spelling?) in Hialeah...a local builder but very good...Sam Holt built the Spider..it held more UIM records than any other boat in the late 50's..he even won the around Miami Beach race in it...he also crewed with Dick Bertram and Sam Griffith in ocean races...the 60 inch powerheads were changed to 66 inch..these boats were run in mostly marathons..they were too heavy for APBA closed course...
those were really fun years for me..
Butch

[lilabner]

hey 75H...
do you have the pictures of Skip's cat hitting the ferry cable?
I remember seeing sequence shots of the whole thing..he whet out forward and broke his lower leg...we had to lift him in and out of the new hydro at the nationals..the new boat never performed well...I drove his cat at Carlsbad at his landing..it ran 88 mph and was real stable..here's a shot of the new single hydro the day it arrived..you can see the cat in the garage..

[lilabner]

another picture

[lilabner]

here is the first boat I saw at Salton Sea in 67

[lilabner]

another shot

[lilabner]

one more

[lilabner]

last one

[lilabner]

HEY 75H..
Here's that picture of the Spider..
It had a flat nose and ran real good in rough water...
taken in 1960

[lilabner]

Here's Answerphone with a 16 or 17 year old me in it at Pelican Harbor..about 58 or 59

[Mark75H]

Those are awesome! :) :) :)


Was Miss Answerphone built from Joe Michellini's "Aeromarine Special" plans?


How did you start that thing? How did it ride?

You should be posting this stuff over on the Racing History forum

[Dave S]

Great pixs, I like those 3 BIG Mercs on that torn and trashed boat. Before V6s that was the way to GO.:D Hey Raceman, how do like those Redlines on that trailer?

[lilabner]

yes sir...thats the boat...it was one of the neatest rides I ever had..even better than Dave Craig's first Switzer...I worked for him in 60-61..
you couldn't feel any water in smooth conditions..I even went over a coconut patch area trying only to miss the prop..we used watches on a measured half mile and could determine it went 85 at least..I was pretty light so I got ride time..Big Red had 100 lbs on me and could never get it running..he gave it to my boss Bob Waldo at Dade Marine to sort out..Bob was beating the Merc team with a 49 Raveau Mark 78 open stack rig at the time...he figured after we played with it Big Red was just too heavy..
pull start engine..I could start it with one hand...

[Powercat]

Butch:
What is the story on the Salton Sea boat? 1967 was after we stopped going to that race. I know that race could tear up some race boats !!!

[lilabner]

Hi Danny
They had just pulled it in when we got there..I don't remember anything else..I was trying to find Jan Schoonover's Switzer at the time...He blew the field away the first lap then broke it..Ramos took over I think..

[heath brinkley]

Just wanted to subscribe to this thread.

Look on the bright side.
At least the transom held up on the triple tower.

[lilabner]

control boxes were well mounted also

[Powercat]

I was just reading the fine print in those articles Sam posted on Skip Talbot's drag boat, and it says that the boat Yo-Yo was one of his also... Prior to the Valkerie boats. I have seen photos of that one before, I think Sam had used it to explain to me what an "S" bottom hydro was. I guess he ran from about 1962 through 1967 in drag racing?? Then after that was when the Drag'n'fly came along about 1970 at 125 mph.. Oh and in looking through some of the posts on this subject I saw where Skip ran a triple engine rig at Havasu in 1967 and looked like there were
quite a few triple rigs.

[lilabner]

yes, a lot of triples..but the most I ever saw was at Galveston in 69 or 70...the race was scary to watch..from 5 to 8 Switzers and an equal number of triples..including Bill Cooper, Bill Sirois, Gene Lanham in a Switzer, the guy with Chryslers from Kansas..he center punched a Switzer cat and flew over it..I think John Bakos was there too..I ran the GN race with Bobby Erra in a Mandela the next day..
that race was really neat because they ran stackers..and it was windy...It was so exciting I can't remember who won!!

[lilabner]

Skip also ran a Merc 650 4cyl with expansion chambers on a flat bottom...