Skater 24 Engine Height

[Liberator25]

I am curious about the results anyone may have had when experimenting with engine height on the Skater 24 or clones. I ran my propshaft center line about 1 1/4" above the bottom of the sponson bottom edge. The boat ran fine and felt good but the engines wouldn't turn up the right rpms (I have two 2003 merc 300X's and could only get around 6300 rpm). So I raised the motors up one hole (about 3/4" for a total of 2"), I have low water pickups so the height isn't an issue with water pressure. After I raised them up, bingo! the rpms went up to 7000, the speed went up about 5 mph and all should be good, BUT. The boat feels so loose that I'm concerned. It will now kite more easily that before and needs some tab in it to keep the nose down, I don't feel nearly as secure. It doesn't turn as well and the whole thing feels less "connected" than before. I'm not ready to go back yet, maybe I just need to get used to the new "feel" of the boat. I was curious what experiences others have had experimenting with this. My engine are mounted directly to the transom so no jack plate to play with. I now run my engine trim nearly neutral, before I used to run a LITTLE positive trim to pick up the nose. Now it seems to carry the nose almost too easily. This Kiteing thing has me a little spooked. I have never blown over a boat and I really don't ever want to. The boat is very loose and flighty, this equals fast, but I am not sure I need that last 5 mph. In good water it's OK and real fast, in slop it's still fast but really loose. What's everyone else experienced. I feel that in time I will get used to the new feeling but I would still value your input.:(

[Liberator25]

Any one ever experimented with this?:confused:

[Racemore]

If you had to lift the motor to a loose condition to get the speed and RPM you might want to take a little bite out of the props and put the motor back down.Responce is the key to dealing with rough conditions because it's the thrust and drag that lets you set the boat for the next wave.I assume the motors are bolted to the boat without jackplates and I'm not sure about a 24 Skater but the 1-1/4 would be about right on a 25 Motion.You can set up a boat to run kilos but you don't want to run it in any unstable conditions because you have to lean on the trim to much.Here is a kilo set up that is faster trying to catch the slower more controlable set up.The Freeze Frame Video shows this boat running behind us out of control to the point it looked like they were going to get in the chopper with them so they flew away from them.They were fast inshore though.

[Racemore]

Then your rig looks like this.Stay safe.:cool:

[Haulin Aqua]

Racemore,

Which Freeze Frame is that? I just joined the club, and Jeff sent me a couple of videos that have some good footage of the 24's. That is what I am most interested in. He said he has a ton of older video's that have inf. on the 24 Skater, but it would be great to hear from someone which one's are the best!




Matt

[skatermike24]

I have played around with mine for awhile and fined out that 1-3/4 works the best for me, I also run transom water pickup's

[espen]

would love to see some Skater 24 videos . I have had a little dream of finding pictures or video from my boat when it was raced in US and in Dubai. the boat I have had kendall stickers on and I think the first number was 102.
Videos please!!!

[Racemore]

Mike,did you fill the holes in your gearcases? If you are running both it cost you 2+ mph.

Haulin Aqua,Freeze Frame did a video on us and Hostile Turnover I mean Takeover(just kiddin guys) but the pic was takin by our guys in the spectator fleet. That happened after 76 miles of racing within a mile of the finish line.They were just too high with the motors to be safe.I kept the throttles pretty much in to the stops and kept the trim flat.Averaged over 88mph.

Liberator25,loose is fast just not too loose that the steering won't control it and the trim loses positive effect.:cool:

[WILDMAN]

Ron, what's your best speed so far?

[skatermike24]

Racemore, no I still use the lower holes when I'm not running hard, I used one way check valves on the transom pickups, when I first set this up I took the boat out and left the hose off going to the adapter plate, I didn't notice any water until I went over 50mph I have the pickups mounted about 1/8"above the bottom of the boat so I don't have any drag, been running this now with no overheating or lost of presure.

[Liberator25]

Randy,

Still 112 mph. Haven't had a chance to get to the lake during the week when the traffic is down and long speed runs are available. It will easily jump to a quick 100 even in short "opourtunity" runs, but to "get it all" you need to run it on the big end for a while, and it eats up a bunch of lake at those speeds. This is best when all the jet skiers are back in school. As the cooler weather approaches, the speeds should go up also. Cool dry air is an outboards friend!! A set of three blades is in my future, but the wife doesn't understand why I would need another set of $1,500 props:D I'll get it done one of these days and I'll let you know the outcome:cool: BTW, got the steering all fixed up and LOCKTITED!! I still am bewildered as to why that wasn't done up front:confused:

[Liberator25]

Randy,

Still 112 mph. Haven't had a chance to get to the lake during the week when the traffic is down and long speed runs are available. It will easily jump to a quick 100 even in short "opourtunity" runs, but to "get it all" you need to run it on the big end for a while, and it eats up a bunch of lake at those speeds. This is best when all the jet skiers are back in school. As the cooler weather approaches, the speeds should go up also. Cool dry air is an outboards friend!! A set of three blades is in my future, but the wife doesn't understand why I would need another set of $1,500 props:D I'll get it done one of these days and I'll let you know the outcome:cool: BTW, got the steering all fixed up and LOCKTITED!! I still am bewildered as to why that wasn't done up front:confused:

[Shaneskater24]

Gentlemen,

I have a 24 Skater with 225 Pro Max powerheads, carb'd using CLE gearcases. We run over 100 spinning 14.5 X 30 Merc labbed cleavers. On a 24 Skater you should need little to NO positive trim. The boat cannot handle it safely. 1.25 to 1.50 inches off the bottom should be a good starting point for engine height. Keep in mind engine height is a relative thing. It depends upon where they are mounted on the transom. If they are spread far apart or not. Mine are 48 inches center to center. Again, positive trim equals accidents. The boats are FAST but SHORT!

[TUFFboat]

Your 24 skater was designed for twin 2.4s. You now have an extra 300lbs on the back. When you raised your motors you lost the gearcase lift and its bow light. An unbalanced offshore cat can be dangerous in the bumps. Bandaids would include turning the props 'in' (assuming they are mounted normal width) and running smaller diameter props. But you will never be able to run with another 24 with little motors in big water. Balance is everything when your in the air.
Good luck

[Racemore]

It's important in the rough.This is the attitude the boat should have to deal with what comes next,fixing to fly at 75 -80.:cool:

[Racemore]

Crooked pic.:rolleyes:

this one im on the brakes for an instant leaving the top.It drag the nose down while it's trying to go up maintaining yo Attitude.:D :cool:

[Shaneskater24]

With all due respect to TUFFboat, NEVER EVER turn the props in, ESPECIALLY on a little cat! The results can and often are VERY SERIOUS! If you have to spin them in, something is not right with your set up. Keep in mind that since you actually do not have a Skater, even though the bottom may be similar etc, it is not the same. Weight distribution, lamination schedules, overall weight and its distribution throughout, all play a part in a boats proper balance and attitude. If you need anything further I would be glad to help.

[espen]

Hi !
I have left hand gear box on the right side of the boat...do they spin in or out............. did not feel that much difference....

[WILDMAN]

Espen, you're turning in.

[Shaneskater24]

Espen,

How far apart are the motors center to center?

WildMan,

Jim Heidenstrom's boat is SWEET!:)

[TUFFboat]

Shane is correct in his comments, however the effect on a properly balanced boat would be more dramatic on a set-up boat than one that is out of balance. Back in the day, when you would make the decision to turn in (standard width) you would do so for the top speed knowing that your giving up handling. That rotation,'in', is tail lift and make the boat want to swap. I did not know the boat in question was not a skater, however the problem described is still an unbalanced issue, and tail lift is a BANDAID, which is not a cure. I can imagine the boat kitting after you pull off the throttles at the end of a high speed run.
I know I must sound like an idiot repeating the importance of balance on an offshore cat BUT almost every incident in these boats was a balance related issue and the 24 is the stuff king.

[Thunderduck]

Why do you care about 110+ in a 25’ Cat?? If you want to run 120+ on glass just buy an Ally, Mirage or STV. I'm sure it’s much cheaper. We run our Skaters in the Gulf of Mexico off Florida’s West Coast where you really can’t run 100+ anyway. Some days you can get in the 90s but it gets real dangerous if you don’t watch every ripple. My engines are mounted on the boat (low) and the boat still slides from side to side at 100+ (real spooky). Do you run the boat on a lake or river?? I’m just curious.

[TUFFboat]

The magic of offshore is doin the dance in the big water. Its way more fun going 75mph in some real snot, working the throttles for your life, than letting the expensive equipment take you 152mph in the flat!!
I'm with the Duck all the way.

[Shaneskater24]

Originally posted by TUFFboat
Shane is correct in his comments, however the effect on a properly balanced boat would be more dramatic on a set-up boat than one that is out of balance. Back in the day, when you would make the decision to turn in (standard width) you would do so for the top speed knowing that your giving up handling. That rotation,'in', is tail lift and make the boat want to swap. I did not know the boat in question was not a skater, however the problem described is still an unbalanced issue, and tail lift is a BANDAID, which is not a cure. I can imagine the boat kitting after you pull off the throttles at the end of a high speed run.
I know I must sound like an idiot repeating the importance of balance on an offshore cat BUT almost every incident in these boats was a balance related issue and the 24 is the stuff king.

AGREED WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE!

[espen]

Hi Shane !
Thanks for asking.
My engines are 50 inches apart , the measurements should aply to my 25 motion as well I think ...since the buttom are same exept wider inside tunnel step . My boat feels light in the bou ,just a little trim out and the bou rides high. Would apreciate some guidance to what direction to work on ... now I am doing 102 mph with 32merc 14,5 inches at 7000rpms+- I am thinking of 30inch 15 inces and water pickups. Trow the 2 optima batteries and have just a tiny start up thing.

Yes I agree on the 75 miles rough water experiance ,when you nail it at a flat spot and the accleration scares the **** out of you .
feeling of freedom is intense :D

BUT Everyone wants to know how fast it is.....better have a figure to brag with:D 100mph in a boat....thats unreal in most boaters eyes:cool:

[Shaneskater24]

espen,

Depending on your tunnel width, you are likely to be to far apart, hence the "flighty" feeling and extreme bow lift. Also, you need to spin them OUT unless you are EXTREMELY EXPERIENCED and even then I would NOT recommend it. I would also bring hte motors in together by two inches. 48 inches center to center would be optimal, starting at 1.5 inches off the bottom. Furthermore, if you are spinning 2.5's at 7000 with 14.5 X 30's something is array. I have 225 Pro Max power heads on 2.5 Housing and CLE gear cases and spin the same props the same RPM's and spin them out with very little trim. You should need little trim with that boat. If you are spinning them in, that is going to be a BIG source of the loose feel and light bow. Also, keep in mind that with EFI's they depend on the battery to operate. Unless you have an alternator you need the bigger batteries. And quite frankly, the little reduction in weight is not going to have that significant of an impact. Let me know id you have any more psecific questions.

[Racemore]

Shane ,he said 32's at 7000 and he might want to drop to 30's.Espen we ran that fast or faster with 2.4 efi's.We turned out and had the gear cases as far out as we could get to the point the motors were mounted tilted in slightly.Cleaner water is better turning big wheels like 32's.That boat should run 108-110 with 2.5 efi's at full power.Low voltage is death to an EFI.You should keep it charged to the max before you run it every time.They charging system barely runs the motor with the fuel pumps and EFI.:cool:

[apache21]

Guys which hole should my bolt go through on the top of the mounting plate. I am mounting to back of transom. Top, middle ,or lower.

[apache21]

p

[WILDMAN]

3rd hole down from the top. That will give you 1 1/2 inchs above the bottom

[Racemore]

Now how the hell do you know that Randy.:confused: Does he have an Apache or a Liberator?Are they pre drilled or something?Lost me on that one.:cool:

[espen]

Shane and Racemore thaks a lot for the input.
One of the best things I have done to the boat was to buy a simon alternator, I mounted it at the left engine,now battery voltage are no worryes :-) the trim runs better ,the engines start easier with always full voltage. My covlings had some cracks so I worked the cowling with a heat gun to make it cover the alternator.
I am not totaly happy with 102mph :confused:
but ....My engines are a little worked in the exhaust chest and I
think they probably have their best hp a bit further up in the rpm band...
I tested to swap from out to in when the lovers where burried and gave no roosters, no difference there but maybe now.
I have 2 x 4 blade30x14.5 merc cleavers I have not tested at this engine hight I have now.
I would xpect when the engines are further apart that I will need more dia on the props to keep the slip down. season are over in Norway and boat are back in doors, but I need some advices to get the boat running 100% maybe send the props off to bend them a little ....and check??

[Shaneskater24]

espen,

First off I appologize for my mistake on the prop size. Oops!:o If I may allow me to offer a few words of advice:

1. Keep an accurate log of your testing various props, drive heights and rotation etc. If you do not establish a base line you will be chasing your tail.

2. Keep in mind that there exist many variables that will need to be taken into account when testing. Some are: humidity, temperature, fuel load, water conditions, wind direction etc. Keep a log indicating speed, rpm, engine trim, height on the transom as well as the above at each pass and note any changes you make. Also note how the handling characteristics change in these various scenarios as well. It is imperative that conditions be as close to the same each time you test when establishing a good set up, otherwise you are not comparing apple to apples. I hope this helps.

Shane

[Racemore]

espen,yes what shane said.You will also see a little rpm variation between the motors due to the alternator on just one.It will take maybe 3-5 hp to turn it depending on how hard it's charging.Also 4 blade props generally hook up harder than 3's.We raced with 28 lab 3 blade props and when the motors were running good they could see 7600-7700 with great responce.If I had a 25 Motion with 2.5's I'd be in Italy now.I couldn't stand not to run it for that long.:D Good Luck and stay warm,Lonnie:cool:

[Liberator25]

Originally posted by Thunderduck
Why do you care about 110+ in a 25’ Cat?? If you want to run 120+ on glass just buy an Ally, Mirage or STV. I'm sure it’s much cheaper. We run our Skaters in the Gulf of Mexico off Florida’s West Coast where you really can’t run 100+ anyway. Some days you can get in the 90s but it gets real dangerous if you don’t watch every ripple. My engines are mounted on the boat (low) and the boat still slides from side to side at 100+ (real spooky). Do you run the boat on a lake or river?? I’m just curious.


Can't really explain why I care about runnin' over 110 in a 25 foot Cat - my wife asked me the same question:D I do run on a lake and it's pretty smooth. I have also felt the "slide" over 100 and it is a little spooky. Mine doesn't slide side to side, it tends to slide to the left. I think that's because my right motor has the Merc built in torque tab. I'm going to grind it off this winter. I don't think the boat will swap ends, but it does have a very wierd feeling - side winds don't help either.:cool: