1150SS. 15" Identification

[oldschoolnc]

Going to look at this motor again. I posted it here a while back and was told that it may just be a XS cowl.
What should I look for, number or letter wise, and where? It's on '67 Carlson
Challenger.
THANKS.
Happy Screaming and Flying. 544606

[SS170]

Two things that I can think of, low water pickup on the gearcase, the letter “J” on the block right by the serial number. Sometimes it’s upside down and a little hard to see.

[WaterZebra]

Going to look at this motor again. I posted it here a while back and was told that it may just be a XS cowl.
What should I look for, number or letter wise, and where? It's on '67 Carlson
Challenger.
THANKS.
Happy Screaming and Flying. 544606

Carlson Challenger and Contenders were all short shaft boats. If that motor checks out to be a 1500XS it's a keeper. Make offer on the whole rig!

[oldschoolnc]

Yeah, If it's not an xs, I've got a 15" Super Strangler mid and lower. I have a xflow 140 pwr head laying around.
It'd be something different either way!
Old guys got two gold metal flake sidewinders, one 16' o/b model, and an 18' 455 jet. I may try and score the whole lot...

[skialot2]

Going to look at this motor again. I posted it here a while back and was told that it may just be a XS cowl.
What should I look for, number or letter wise, and where? It's on '67 Carlson
Challenger.
THANKS.
Happy Screaming and Flying. 544606

The title says 1150SS but that is a 1500 cowl

[oldschoolnc]

At first I posted it as an SS... Then changed it to XS, post changed, but title didn't. I thought the louvered cowl indicated at least an XS cowl. I believe when I looked at it last year, it said XS somewhere. I'm mostly interested in the hulls.
Funny, I wrote "old guy", I'm a just feeling young in my 60"s...lol.
The guy has back problems and is selling most of his collection.

I think this is what i saw. Year may be different.

[WaterZebra]

At fist I posted it as an SS... Then changed it to XS. I thought the vented cowl indicated at least an XS cowl. I believe when I looked at it last year, it said XS somewhere. I'm mostly interested in the hulls.
Funny, I wrote "old guy", I'm a just feeling young in my 60"s...lol.
The guy has back problems and is selling most of his collection.

I think this is what i saw. Year may be different.

As per a previous posted reply, look for "J" in the block serial number and a low water pick up on the gearcase bullet. These are dead give aways its a Merc 1500XS. The Carlson hulls were made in two versions. The Challenger and Contender. The models were identified by which metalflake color the hull had. Either red or blue. I can't remember which but the blue one was shorter. I've seen the blue ones come up from time to time but not the red ones. There's a blue one atop a shipping container in a Bremerton WA boatyard spending its final days in the sun rotting. Yours is in far better shape.

[1978allison]

Where is it located?

[oldschoolnc]

It's in Eastern NC, near Clarkton. A little W of Wilmington.

[KIRCHNER]

ran with a bunch of them had a new contender/ gold my bud, a challenger with x115 omc, a green 14 110/xs. i ran a v490. they came in all colors. the 16 was just as fast as the 14. made in garden grove,cali, Art Carlson then merged with glastron. fantastic boats, they also made a twister canopy boat, but never took off. i remember the full page color chart. max recc horsepower-75. both 14 and 16 had a racing fin/factory installed. and needed it. the original bucket seats were killer. grab that 16....

[WaterZebra]

[QUOTE=KIRCHNER;3457387]ran with a bunch of them had a new contender/ gold my bud, a challenger with x115 omc, a green 14 110/xs. i ran a v490. they came in all colors. the 16 was just as fast as the 14. made in garden grove,cali, Art Carlson then merged with glastron. fantastic boats, they also made a twister canopy boat, but never took off. i remember the full page color chart. max recc horsepower-75. both 14 and 16 had a racing fin/factory installed. and needed it. the original bucket seats were killer. grab that 16....[/QUOTE

The catalog and color chart page must have been in a stand alone Carlson brochure? The Challenger and Contender were merely a half of a page in the Glastron catalog with no color options? The Twister canopy boat was on the cover of this booklet but never mentioned anywhere else?

[25ss]

By looking at the lower trim cylinder it looks like a short mid but the lower has a square back.
All XS low water pick up lowers were rounded back. The square ones were newer and i have never seen a short one.
Some one could have shortened it. Still could be any power head 115-140-150-150XS.
With the XS band and short mid its worth buying.
Ive had a challenger and a CT15 for many years
The challenger is fun gets on plane fast but with the flat botton rides bad on rough water.
The CT15 is full tunnel and likes rough water but being single seat gets old fast.
Dale

[oldschoolnc]

I guess im gonna try and get the package. I've always been an OMC guy, and I've got a 15" Super Strangler mid/lower. I do have a V4 pwr. head to stick on it, the mid has a Ray Nadahl adapter plate that may be for a V6? I was contacted by someone on the site that makes a stub driveshaft adapter. A little more research is necessary. It would definitely get some looks? at the ramp.
Thanks

Happy Screaming and Flying

[KIRCHNER]

my era was pre-glastron, carlson was carlson. yes not a rough water boat, the sensation .of speed in a challanger was great, i thought the 16 had a 20'' transom? my color was marigold. best times ever! Artk

[oldschoolnc]

I'm going to get another look at it. I saw it when I was there buying a motor, didn't look real close then... He also has a Sidewinder 16' ski/speed boat i want to see again. Also has a matching gold flake 18' sidewinder w/455 jet. His back is bad now and wants to sell. Any info on Sidewinder? Looks like a Baja... probably nothing special.
Thanks for your comments.

Happy Screaming and Flying

[KIRCHNER]

.hee.hee that challenger didnt help his back any.. if the fin is missing,hopefully the holes were sealed. see if it has the small wedges on the bottom edge, 1 each side. seem alot ground off. for reasons i dont know. if you get it,part of the lot a decide to part with it, ill take it tks Art.

[WaterZebra]

By looking at the lower trim cylinder it looks like a short mid but the lower has a square back.
All XS low water pick up lowers were rounded back. The square ones were newer and i have never seen a short one.
Some one could have shortened it. Still could be any power head 115-140-150-150XS.
With the XS band and short mid its worth buying.
Ive had a challenger and a CT15 for many years
The challenger is fun gets on plane fast but with the flat botton rides bad on rough water.
The CT15 is full tunnel and likes rough water but being single seat gets old fast.
Dale

Was the CT15 basically a Challenger deck-over cowl set up with a center mounted cockpit? I always thought the side profile photos of a CT15 running looked awesome!

[KIRCHNER]

all i know, the challenger/contender were not full tunnels, dead flat at the stern.the semi-full tunnel boats wore the glastron/carlson badge, in 68-69. my contender must been a 67. i had a 150 15'', it has a reg merc l/u. cant remember the year,but had blue decals on a glastron hpv175 bass boat.best riding boat i ever had,hands down..

[KIRCHNER]

welcome to the encyclopedia of performance boating..

[oldschoolnc]

This is what he has. I may have posted this a while back. It was originally port side helm,, looks like it was changed to center steer, and most recently starboard side steer.
Any more details about the "fin"? Was it a turn fin halfway foward? I'm just trying to know what to look for as far as originality, before I go look at it again. Does it has a blow over speed? lol
Thanks.

Happy Screaming and Flying

[WaterZebra]

This is what he has. I may have posted this a while back. It was originally port side helm,, looks like it was changed to center steer, and most recently starboard side steer.
Any more details about the "fin"? Was it a turn fin halfway foward? I'm just trying to know what to look for as far as originality, before I go look at it again. Does it has a blow over speed? lol
Thanks.

Happy Screaming and Flying

Take note of 25SS photo post of a CT15 at speed. The fin is about 5-6 feet forward of the transom. These boats were semi tunnels NOT full tunnels. Technically, they were 3 point hydros. The fin was probably added to prevent side sliding in the turns. Any full deck tunnels made prior to the picklefork era were prone to blow overs. They would violently lift without warning.

[25ss]

The contender and the challenger the same in 14 and 16 ft came in red- blue and gold
Both are tunnel front and flat transom with small trim tabs molded in on each side.
Some people have removed the i have not
They both have a big fin in the center about 3 ft from the transom. They dont like to turn right
at speed. mine has left steering seems to be a California thing
The CT15 is a 15 ft full tunnel mine has a large fin on the left inside sponson i dont think it was factory.
Some of them have a fin on the left side at the transom as well.
On the flipping i have had my challenger to 70 trimmed out and felt safe.
I did over trim my CT15 at 82 and flipped it.( It happens fast i dont want to do that again ]
I was lucky stock boats the drivers legs are under the dash and usually broke them on a flip.
My boat was owned by Mercury and came from lake x im guessing to be safer they removed the dash and
moved the steering forward.
I sit with my legs out in front of me and during the flip it just shot me out with some cracked ribs.
Dale

[tlwjkw]

This is what he has. I may have posted this a while back. It was originally port side helm,, looks like it was changed to center steer, and most recently starboard side steer.
Any more details about the "fin"? Was it a turn fin halfway foward? I'm just trying to know what to look for as far as originality, before I go look at it again. Does it has a blow over speed? lol
Thanks.

Happy Screaming and Flying

pretty sure thats where tha mustang "sled" (knock-off) came from way back when also.. went with a coupla those back in late 60's,(right after service) early 70's.....

[WaterZebra]

The contender and the challenger the same in 14 and 16 ft came in red- blue and gold
Both are tunnel front and flat transom with small trim tabs molded in on each side.
Some people have removed the i have not
They both have a big fin in the center about 3 ft from the transom. They dont like to turn right
at speed. mine has left steering seems to be a California thing
The CT15 is a 15 ft full tunnel mine has a large fin on the left inside sponson i dont think it was factory.
Some of them have a fin on the left side at the transom as well.
On the flipping i have had my challenger to 70 trimmed out and felt safe.
I did over trim my CT15 at 82 and flipped it.( It happens fast i dont want to do that again ]
I was lucky stock boats the drivers legs are under the dash and usually broke them on a flip.
My boat was owned by Mercury and came from lake x im guessing to be safer they removed the dash and
moved the steering forward.
I sit with my legs out in front of me and during the flip it just shot me out with some cracked ribs.
Dale

This photo settles the debate...............CT15= full tunnel Challenger / Contender = semi tunnel / 3 point

[tlwjkw]

don't think it was a real "3 point"?.. tha side tunnels jus blended into tha flat bottom rear... wouldn't turn for $hit without a skag under it.....

[WaterZebra]

don't think it was a real "3 point"?.. tha side tunnels jus blended into tha flat bottom rear... wouldn't turn for $hit without a skag under it.....

Yep...........just like a hydro...........stock outboarders figured this out decades ago and extended strakes all the way from the sponsons to the transom. 10 ft GW Invaders were notorious side skidders. Mount a 50 Merc on the back of one and turn in either direction with the engine running "straight" while the boat crabbed left or right.

[KIRCHNER]

im wonder if a challenger 16 could handle a v6? i have a 15'6'' magnolia w/ 225, it floats ok 15'' transom too

[tlwjkw]

im wonder if a challenger 16 could handle a v6? i have a 15'6'' magnolia w/ 225, it floats ok 15'' transom too

it probably would.. think tha kober kat (tha old ones) was a close knock off of it.. tha kat handled tha 16" 225+ back in tha day jus fine.. ran a coupla those also..

these.....

Vintage Outboard Race Boats | My Kober Cat in '70 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3901738436764109/posts/4273195549618394/)

[tlwjkw]

im wonder if a challenger 16 could handle a v6? i have a 15'6'' magnolia w/ 225, it floats ok 15'' transom too

it probably would.. think tha kober kat (tha old ones) was a close knock off of it.. tha kat handled tha 16" 225+ back in tha day jus fine.. ran a coupla those also..

these.....

Vintage Outboard Race Boats | My Kober Cat in '70 | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3901738436764109/posts/4273195549618394/).. not mine.. justa internet pic of one..

[FUJIMO]

...what a nice example...https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=546094&d=1112829034

[WaterZebra]

im wonder if a challenger 16 could handle a v6? i have a 15'6'' magnolia w/ 225, it floats ok 15'' transom too

These boats were designed and developed with inline 6 cylinder power in mind. Mounting any V6 on any of these Carlson hulls is asking for trouble. OMC V4 maybe but OMC did not make any V4 models with a 15 inch mid section

[oldschoolnc]

'73 Evinrude Super Strangler mid/lower I have is a 15". Foward gear only. Has separate hydraulic pump for built in jack, no pwr trim... my understanding is that it was made for tunnels.
Might be ok for the challenger with a V4. May be a winter project. My V6 mock up, shop art. Mid/lower are in usable shape.

[tlwjkw]

an OMC, probably not so much.. merc would be better but still not for tha inexperienced.....

[oldschoolnc]

You've gotta watch those "inexperienced " OMC guys... lol

[tlwjkw]

think tha MERC guys were worse!.. i got wet several times till it finally clicked!...........

[KIRCHNER]

were both old, ill bet im older. im 75 boating since i was 9 yrs old. they put me in a whaler in nam.

[tlwjkw]

80 last sept.. we skied tha Hue river behind those whalers..

[oldschoolnc]

I feel good, more like mature, wise, and experienced in life with many good memories. :)

On a different note I lost one older brother over there, helicopter door gunner, he went back for a 2nd tour and didn't return. I was just 7...

Happy Screaming and Flying

[tlwjkw]

I feel good, more like mature, wise, and experienced in life with many good memories. :)

On a different note I lost one older brother over there, helicopter door gunner, he went back for a 2nd tour and didn't return. I was just 7...

Happy Screaming and Flying

:thumbsup:

i feel good jus seems like i have a new body part goin' south every week here lately.. but its ok.. i've lived a very FULL life.. losing my son is tha only thing that really went against tha grain in my lifetime.. tha rest i wouldn't trade for!!!

[KIRCHNER]

These boats were designed and developed with inline 6 cylinder power in mind. Mounting any V6 on any of these Carlson hulls is asking for trouble. OMC V4 maybe but OMC did not make any V4 models with a 15 inch mid section
they made a 50,75,90.100,x115 all 15'' i rigged dozens, std fnr lower units mech or electric shift

[KIRCHNER]

80 last sept.. we skied tha Hue river behind those whalers..
what branch of service? in any combat? a month after i left, we were overrun. had a 90 day wonder in command..

[tlwjkw]

so called Navy... 34 months.. '66 ta '69... delta (4 corps) ta I corps...(mk I) PBR 118.. boat captain last 20 months in I corp.. based at tha mouth of tha Hue River.. lotsa bullets received and deployed.... i loved it!

[KIRCHNER]

so called Navy... 34 months.. '66 ta '69... delta (4 corps) ta I corps...(mk I) PBR 118.. boat captain last 20 months in I corp.. based at tha mouth of tha Hue River.. lotsa bullets received and deployed.... i loved it!
i was navy NSA nha-be siagon. 4corps. mekong riv 70-71. floating base in river, pbr gas depot. nixon cut me out early. they wouldnt let me do my job,frustrating and costly! i used to watch em in the treeline night after night.

[tlwjkw]

yeah, we heard 'bout tha "floatin' bases".. never got assigned ta one in tha delta.. was happy 'bout that.. we were scheduled ta move to a YRBN on tha MeKong but it got blown up before we got there.. thats when they moved us ta I corps... 6 of us were in 3 different divisions over our extended VISIT. 521, 513, 534 back ta 521 when we we went ta I corps... my whole tour was a hoot that i really loved... my family said i needed help!!!! :)

[KIRCHNER]

yeah, we heard 'bout tha "floatin' bases".. never got assigned ta one in tha delta.. was happy 'bout that.. we were scheduled ta move to a YRBN on tha MeKong but it got blown up before we got there.. thats when they moved us ta I corps... 6 of us were in 3 different divisions over our extended VISIT. 521, 513, 534 back ta 521 when we we went ta I corps... my whole tour was a hoot that i really loved... my family said i needed help!!!! :)
i was at SONG ONG DOC , mekong riv, was blown up, then SOLID ANCHOR, aka SEAFLOAT; I would do it again if my hands werent tied... i drove a LCM.