No water to top of heads on Bridgeport 2.4 and overheating

[62 bugzilla]

New to outboards but experienced mechanic just to start off just want to make sure you know I understand which end of a screw driver to use haha. Things I've done or checked from help of other people on here. I just replaced impeller and housing and all gaskets including lower ones. Have water to starboard side dump coming from where the poppet valve would normally be and lower port side when above 3000 rpms. Has no poppet valve and no thermostats like a Bridgeport is supposed to be from what I'm told. Has pressure gauge off top of starboard head which I tested with air and works but shows nothing even if I rev motor to 5k. No flow from top of heads even at that rpm at port dump hose. Hard for me to tell if it has a one piece mid or 2 piece and I've heard that matters but also pretty sure the guy I bought boat from did ran it the way it sits a few years ago. What should I do next?

[pcrussell50]

I had basically the same issue not three weeks ago. My impeller was fresh and good. What I missed was that in the impeller housing, where the copper water tube enters, there should be a rubber grommet. It’s easy to miss if your housing is black, as mine is. I put a fresh new grommet in there and now I’m cool as a cucumber. ;)

===

Wow, a bridge port! That’s a heck of a motor to start out in outboarding with. :)

-Peter

[62 bugzilla]

Double checked that and it came in new housing lightly grease it on both ends of copper tubing to top

[pcrussell50]

Double checked that and it came in new housing lightly grease it on both ends of copper tubing to top

Next, drop the lower unit back out and shove a garden hose up the copper tube and see what you get. You should get something like this:

https://youtube.com/shorts/3hwgS8gboi8?feature=share

This ^^^ is me checking my own 2.4/200 out.

-Peter

[62 bugzilla]

Great idea will do

[tlwjkw]

its got a two piece plate from what i see.. need a little better pic of tha side of motor.. does have any numbers stamped on tha flange of tha block half, port side?.. anything stamped in tha welsh plug?..

if it is a two piece then you will need a functioning poppet and t stats or at lest 3/8" hole restrictor washers.. before you drop lower remove tha big plug on top of block and star tha thing.. should have lotsa flow from ther.. no flow then its gonna be a problem between tha pump and bottom of block.....

[62 bugzilla]

Could it be dumping all the water out the bottom with 2 piece mid and not building enough to the top for pressure? I heard something about plugging a spot in 2 price mid and restrict it to flow to top with no poppet valve motors? It does have the proper restrictors it thermostats housing now.

[62 bugzilla]

Yes does have numbers in block is 1990 Bridgeport 245 motor.

[tlwjkw]

that motor originally came ona one piece.. when its run on tha two piece ya really need ta make it same type coolin' as a production motor... there a several tricks ta make it a "cool" coolin system but "cool" don't necessarily work (cool) like tha motor needs.. it needs ta be one or tha other to make tha motor perform and last like its supposed to... tha restrictor washers (3/8" hole) will be fine but with a stock 2 piece ya need an operational (production) poppet w/o tha hose bib on it unless ya wanna tie it into a bib on tha top of tha block (where its got a big plug now)... this is jus tha way i would do it but its your motor soooooooooooooo... but ya gotta get tha water in tha motor first so there's that......... think you'll find that problem pretty quick.... good luck with it.. ya gotta clean one, take good care of it.

[62 bugzilla]

Just 2 be clear you’re talking about taking off the owner head and restricting the water dump area in the mid with plug and drilling to limit what gets to lower unit right? I like this better even if more work since I don’t like modifying the motor for poppet valve. I was gonna try and confirm by removing lower section and running water straight up pump tube can that show me or can I see it from opening at lower unit?

[tlwjkw]

got lost in translation?... all you need ta do is add all internal "design II" poppet parts and block off tha bib on tha poppet cover.. forget tha hose goin' to tha top of tha block.......

[Baker343]

tlwjkw knows his stuff. Run a poppet and thermostats, they will keep your engine warm and happy with the proper water pressure. Dry stacking your 2-piece plate with the needed cooling mods won't make that much of difference. Running a motor cold (not holding water in the block to be warmed) at WOT for a mile or so can be catastrophic. Cold seize!

[62 bugzilla]

So I need to add a poppet housing to replace my 2 bolt plate with hose and install poppet valve design 2 in housing and re connect hose. Also add thermostats to to of heads instead of the restrictors and this will get water to top of heads and cool properly. Do I need to modify engine in any other way? I thought my area to the rear of the motor that the housing goes over is blocked off doesn’t it normally have a hole into block?

[Jim Speros]

What gearcase do you have, HP bridgeport has no thermostat just a washer with a 3/8 hole in it.

Since you put a new impeller kit in it you may be ready to ramp test. Its hard to flow test on a hose. Before you start taking things apart ramp test it. Don't take off trailer immediately. Run, rev , shift in and out of gears and check water pressure gauge. If all that is OK , take for a ride.

[Jim Speros]

It looks like a powerhead got swapped. Bridgeport on stock mid like mentioned above. I am not saying the mods he mentioned are not gonna help. But I think that is more for top end flow. I still think a ramp test is in order as a good next move. I'm curious about your gearcase since its not a complete HP engine.

Take a pic of it.

[Baker343]

I think the hose coming off your poppet plate with no poppet valve is dumping water from your 2-piece exhaust plate and dumping needed water to your block. You can plug that hose and test to see if you gain water to your heads. I believe the 2.4 bridgeports and Mod-Vp blocks came with Hipo 1-piece exhaust plates to handle the higher RPM's cooling needs.

[Baker343]

So I need to add a poppet housing to replace my 2 bolt plate with hose and install poppet valve design 2 in housing and re connect hose. Also add thermostats to to of heads instead of the restrictors and this will get water to top of heads and cool properly. Do I need to modify engine in any other way? I thought my area to the rear of the motor that the housing goes over is blocked off doesn’t it normally have a hole into block?

This is your safest route and probably the easy fix. Keep your current poppet plate with a hose outlet and added the valve. You can plug the hole it if you don't need the extra water when at lower RPM's I think that's how they work. Test it first by plugging your current poppet dump hose. It may work with your washers.

Just watch your water pressure if you're going to running it.

Remove your poppet plate and you should be able to put your finger or something through and into your 2-piece plate.

Adding thermostats will allow you to run in very cold water if you want.

I probably have a and couple poppet plates and valves and can send to you if you can't find one.

[62 bugzilla]

This is your safest route and probably the easy fix. Keep your current poppet plate with a hose outlet and added the valvle. You can plug it if you don't need the extra water when at lower RPM's I think that's how they work. Test it first by plugging your current poppet dump hose. It may work with your washers.

Just watch your water pressure if you're going to running it.

Remove your poppet plate and you should be able to put your finger or something through and into your 2-piece plate.

Adding thermostats will allow you to run in very cold water if you want.

I probably have a and couple poppet plates and valves and can send to you if you can't find one.
this sounds great and will try it and see what happens. I appreciate the offer on plate and valve and might take you up on it if this doesn’t work and have to add it.

[Baker343]

Just looked at my 2.4 Mod-vp block and I'm assuming it's a 2 hole only poppet cover like yours.
Now I'm confused because it does open up into the exhaust plate. Did mercury make a 2 bolt poppet cover with a poppet valve for the Hipo 2.4's on 2 peice plates or only 2 bolt dump plates for the 1 piece exhaust plates? Can you use a 4 bolt plate with poppet valve and just bolt it down with the 2 bolts.

[62 bugzilla]

523303523304523305This is the part I don't know about. I thought they didn't run poppet valves and I had to modify was in 2 price case but you are second person to suggest poppet valve. Here's some pics that might help.523306

[tlwjkw]

all "hi perf" motors ('cept tha pro max stuff, only steel motor outta hi perf. div.) came on one piece plates and NO poppet.. they aren't meant to run on two piece plates so ya gotta make 'em work with tha two piece by do tha coolin' system as if its a "production" motor...

IF ITS ON A PRODUCTION TWO PIECE ADAPTER PLATE IT NEEDS TO HAVE A WORKING POPPET VALVE ASSY...... a design II assy. with tha two bolt holes (no bib on cover) would be desirable

this is how it works...

two piece plate = working poppet assy.... period, regardless of production or hi perf. motor
one piece plate = no poppet assy. just cover... regardless of hi perf. or production motor... with one exception and that being a very rare factory 15" 225 pro max one piece adapter that uses a poppet assy motor.... period...

jus to qualify the above.. if you know what and how to "modify" either type plate there are exceptions to the above.. but you better know exactly what you're doin'............. but also i'm sure there are some out there that have their trick way of "makin' it work" some way or another...................:reddevil:

[rjdubiel]

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?20855-Removing-T-stats-and-Poppet-Valve

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?52191-Bridgeport-w-2-piece-adapter-question

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?36060-Greg-Moss-cooling-mods-Drystacking-the-2-piece-plate


Threads with a discussion about no poppet running on 2 pc plate.

[Baker343]

Well I'll be. Found this on one of my 83 2L blocks. Never really paid attention to the different types of poppets. Learned something again.

523319

[62 bugzilla]

Well I'll be. Found this on one of my 83 2L blocks. Never really paid attention to the different types of poppets. Learned something

https://www.screamandfly.com/blob:https://www.screamandfly.com/b35f3a54-01d4-4bf3-8d17-c017a9fbcf01
So I need the case and poppet valve for this assembly and it tstats back in place and I should then have water to top of heads and pressure on gauge. I can also pay attention to temp if I’m running at over 6500 for a period of time to make sure temp doesn’t climb since I think that’s why the one piece and no poppet is for racing applications which I will be using boat more recreational purposes anyway with a high rpm rip every once in awhile.

[62 bugzilla]

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?20855-Removing-T-stats-and-Poppet-Valve

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?52191-Bridgeport-w-2-piece-adapter-question

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?36060-Greg-Moss-cooling-mods-Drystacking-the-2-piece-plate


Threads with a discussion about no poppet running on 2 pc plate.
all of these were great especially the first one. Getting more of an idea what’s going on with this issue for sure.

[tlwjkw]

and I should then have water to top of heads and pressure on gauge. I can also pay attention to temp if I’m running at over 6500 for a period of time to make sure temp doesn’t climb since I think that’s why the one piece and no poppet is for racing applications which I will be using boat more recreational purposes anyway with a high rpm rip every once in awhile.

it may or may not be your problem... also tha one piece was for plated (chrome and/or nic) cylinder motors, like yours, not production steel motors... can be run with steel motors but with some modifications....

[62 bugzilla]

It looks like a powerhead got swapped. Bridgeport on stock mid like mentioned above. I am not saying the mods he mentioned are not gonna help. But I think that is more for top end flow. I still think a ramp test is in order as a good next move. I'm curious about your gearcase since its not a complete HP engine.

Take a pic of it.
I will take a picture of the lower unit tomorrow and I did try it I. The water and it got hot in short period of Time and no water out of the hose from the heads with just restrictors in them.

[tlwjkw]

like said before.. put it in tha water or ona hose.. pull that large plug right behind tha flywheel and check for flow (a lot) there.. if there is none ya have a problem between tha intakes and tha block.. that plug is tha first opening of water flow from tha pump...

[62 bugzilla]

Well I'll be. Found this on one of my 83 2L blocks. Never really paid attention to the different types of poppets. Learned something again.


523319

I found the corresponding poppet valve and plate for this set up on early 2.4 and it's actually called a relief valve and I ordered it and might try it with tsats and see what happens maybe good solution for my 2 piece plate on this motor. Thanks for you help.

[62 bugzilla]

like said before.. put it in tha water or ona hose.. pull that large plug right behind tha flywheel and check for flow (a lot) there.. if there is none ya have a problem between tha intakes and tha block.. that plug is tha first opening of water flow from tha pump...

will try this tomorrow. thanks

[pcrussell50]

will try this tomorrow. thanks

My plug on top, right behind the flywheel, had a smaller pipe plug in it where you would screw in the poly tube for the water pressure gauge. As part of my testing, I removed that little 1/8NPT pipe plug and verified that water was flying out of there with the garden hose hooked up to the copper pickup tube (lower unit removed, obviously).

-Peter

[tlwjkw]

thats fine but tells ya nothin' 'bout tha water pump/parts condition.. he needs ta have as many of his parts in place ta make sure they are workin' or not................. jmo

[pcrussell50]

thats fine but tells ya nothin' 'bout tha water pump/parts condition.. he needs ta have as many of his parts in place ta make sure they are workin' or not................. jmo

true. I just started with the hose on the copper tube. After I found proper flow there, THEN I moved on to the water pump (where I found I had no bottom grommet)

-Peter

[62 bugzilla]

It looks like a powerhead got swapped. Bridgeport on stock mid like mentioned above. I am not saying the mods he mentioned are not gonna help. But I think that is more for top end flow. I still think a ramp test is in order as a good next move. I'm curious about your gearcase since its not a complete HP engine.

Take a pic of it.

Here's the pics of the lower unit I'm not sure what it's is. Has a low water pick up in it though. 523448523449523450523451523448523449523450523451

[Jim Speros]

It is an early Mercury CLE gearcase.

It can be difficult to get enough water to it to run on hose. What are you using as a flush attachment? Under the little rectangular side point covers there are O rings. Its a pretty small passage easy to clog.

[62 bugzilla]

It is an early Mercury CLE gearcase.

It can be difficult to get enough water to it to run on hose. What are you using as a flush attachment? Under the little rectangular side point covers there are O rings. Its a pretty small passage easy to clog.

I got a bobs low water pick up attachment and seems to have good flow. I trimmed it to fit case nice in the front. I will check those orings are they the ones that come in water pump kit I saved those.

[Jim Speros]

Can you tell if its drawing water in? Where does water come out of the engine while running on flush? I'll share a pick of what I use.

[Jim Speros]

Its hard to troubleshoot across a screen. We all make assumptions. I am assuming your not getting water thru water pump.

I made and use this "snotter" flusher by shoving it into housing and holding with a bungy.

523452523453

I figure there is a fair chance the impeller is damaged already from lack of water. If you do pull gearcase stick a hose on the copper tube and see what kind of flow you get thru the engine. Also make sure there a grommets in place on other end of tube.

[Jim Speros]

I'd still just ramp it and see what happens or pull gearcase again. Check flow thru engine and thru passages in gearcase. I always try to pin point the issue before I start disassembling potentially stuck fasteners like the side plates on housing. If you break a screw off you are screwed.

[skialot2]

Here's the pics of the lower unit I'm not sure what it's is. Has a low water pick up in it though. 523448523449523450523451523448523449523450523451

Check the seal on the side cover plates. If they leak they will suck air instead of water. They look like they are sticking out a little more than they should.

[62 bugzilla]

I was leaning towards from what I’ve learned on here that I’m dumping to much water thru the 2 mid section and options are to pull motor and block off spot in mid and drill small hole or pot in poppet valve 2 bolt early style with tstats to gain pressure to top and this has drawback of less cooling at high rpm for longer duration. Do these seem like I might be on right track? Water pump puts out a ton of water to plate where poppet would go and out bottom of mid when running now but not enough to get to op of motor.

[62 bugzilla]

Its hard to troubleshoot across a screen. We all make assumptions. I am assuming your not getting water thru water pump.

I made and use this "snotter" flusher by shoving it into housing and holding with a bungy.

523452523453

I figure there is a fair chance the impeller is damaged already from lack of water. If you do pull gearcase stick a hose on the copper tube and see what kind of flow you get thru the engine. Also make sure they’re a grommets in place on other end of tube.
i love that flash tool and will make one thanks for idea. I also tried it submerged in tank above gear case and first time out in water at river with same issue all places. Is it possible it’s dumping to much out bottom of 2 piece mid?

[Jim Speros]

I always try to approach a problem systematically. A cooling problem first step is water pump. Check all passages for flow if a nose cone is present. Replace impeller and check under wear plate to see if base is melted. Replace base if any sign of heat exists. Check grommets on either end of water tube. Its easy to stack and kink or overlook and omit grommet in upper pump housing. While gearcase is still off flow water thru copper tube and see where is comes out and how much flow you have. It should take nearly all if not all of garden hose flow. Then work up to midsection or exhaust cover as flow tests suggest. Its seems more often then not there is a minor issue in water pump that gets overlooked. Taking anything else apart or modifiying it before you have ensured a perfect water pump can lead to chasing your tail.

Yes maybe the poppet is stuck open, see maybe you have an obstruction in divider exhaust plate. There there are 4 passages. Seems unlikely they are all clogged.

Again start with basics then and only then and work up thru flow pattern.

[pcrussell50]

I always try to approach a problem systematically. A cooling problem first step is water pump. Check all passages for flow if a nose cone is present. Replace impeller and check under wear plate to see if base is melted. Replace base if any sign of heat exists. Check grommets on either end of water tube. Its easy to stack and kink or overlook and omit grommet in upper pump housing. While gearcase is still off flow water thru copper tube and see where is comes out and how much flow you have. It should take nearly all if not all of garden hose flow. Then work up to midsection or exhaust cover as flow tests suggest. Its seems more often then not there is a minor issue in water pump that gets overlooked.

Jim's advice here is what did it for me. I didn't have the grommet in the housing. The grommet is black, and my particular housing is black and I missed it. Further the previous motor didn't have the poppet with the barb, and the extra water hose running to the top. This means that there was more/easier flow, and that motor had enough flow for good cooling and a strong telltale, even without the grommet. Not so with the "dogbone" poppet with a water hose that runs to the top. In that case, lack of the lower grommet really killed the flow. It didn't overheat, mind, but the tell tale was still too hot and weak. Much better with the grommet, thanks to Jim.

-Peter

[62 bugzilla]

I always try to approach a problem systematically. A cooling problem first step is water pump. Check all passages for flow if a nose cone is present. Replace impeller and check under wear plate to see if base is melted. Replace base if any sign of heat exists. Check grommets on either end of water tube. Its easy to stack and kink or overlook and omit grommet in upper pump housing. While gearcase is still off flow water thru copper tube and see where is comes out and how much flow you have. It should take nearly all if not all of garden hose flow. Then work up to midsection or exhaust cover as flow tests suggest. Its seems more often then not there is a minor issue in water pump that gets overlooked. Taking anything else apart or modifiying it before you have ensured a perfect water pump can lead to chasing your tail.

Yes maybe the poppet is stuck open, see maybe you have an obstruction in divider exhaust plate. There there are 4 passages. Seems unlikely they are all clogged.

Again start with basics then and only then and work up thru flow pattern.

I will be doing your approach this weeknd. I did notice slight heat issue in lower water pump plate so i ordered a replacement for that and will be double checking impeller as well. Then go thru the check list you stated. I will let you know my findings.

[mxr181]

Did you end up figuring anything out last weekend? I know you saw my thread but I also just got a Bridgeport sitting on a standard mid section and hoping to have it running tonight, this is likely going to be my next issue to solve to get it on the water.

[62 bugzilla]

Did you end up figuring anything out last weekend? I know you saw my thread but I also just got a Bridgeport sitting on a standard mid section and hoping to have it running tonight, this is likely going to be my next issue to solve to get it on the water.
did not get a chance weather did not cooperate. Will fill you in and if you could do the same would be great. I’m going the methodical route this time starting at bottom inlet and working way to top. Think I’m going back to original no poppet valve and washers instead of thermostats and try and get it right the way it’s supposed to run. I did get water to top with poppet valve but still no pressures on gauge so I think it’s in the water pump system somewhere. Keep me in loop.

[mxr181]

Sounds good!

[mxr181]

Sure enough, got mine fired up, hose hooked up and no flow out of the motor at all. Not the lower unit / water pump I will be using but don’t have a flush adaptor for sport master. Did confirm motor has not been ran on this mid section and it’s a standard 2.4L mid

[pcrussell50]

Sure enough, got mine fired up, hose hooked up and no flow out of the motor at all. Not the lower unit / water pump I will be using but don’t have a flush adaptor for sport master. Did confirm motor has not been ran on this mid section and it’s a standard 2.4L mid

For the record, in the video clip I posted back in post #4, I didn’t use any kind of adapter to get the hose on the copper tube. I had one of those small hole water jet ends. Just a cheap $1.99* plastic one from Ace. Like this one: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lawn-and-garden/watering-and-irrigation/nozzles-and-wands/7681018?x429=true&gbraid=0AAAAADtqLJFDEm2ZwxEKA7_DdHXIUIqeU&gclid=CjwKCAjwu4WoBhBkEiwAojNdXqerADheLib-dsjK0H6UCKH362f2t_ObJvCj_lCguBhU6osU0LOwYhoCY5YQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

And I simply held it in place with one hand and the phone/camera in the other. This is a VERY easy test for blockages.

*looks like it's gone up by 60 cents. But mine didn't have the shutoff either, lol

-Peter

[mxr181]

So the hose adaptor I got from Walmart on Sunday is just a piece of junk. Pulled the lower today and hooked the hose directly up to the copper pipe and I got water out the dual pissers and slight water pressure, if I blocked the pissers it gained more water pressure so I’m guessing whatever mid / adaptor plates I have seem to be ok, I will attach pic of what I think it poppet plate that does have a line coming from rear exterior fitting at top of the midsection. Both of my thermostat ports are ran directly out instead of tied together like my last motor and the rest of the photos I’ve seen. Gotta have washers because I got water flow before I even started the engine. Pretty sure this is a std 150/175 mid section as the lower has a smaller bullet than my old 2.4 200. Should I put thermostats in?

[mxr181]

Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help with your scenario, hopefully pics help

[62 bugzilla]

So the hose adaptor I got from Walmart on Sunday is just a piece of junk. Pulled the lower today and hooked the hose directly up to the copper pipe and I got water out the dual pissers and slight water pressure, if I blocked the pissers it gained more water pressure so I’m guessing whatever mid / adaptor plates I have seem to be ok, I will attach pic of what I think it poppet plate that does have a line coming from rear exterior fitting at top of the midsection. Both of my thermostat ports are ran directly out instead of tied together like my last motor and the rest of the photos I’ve seen. Gotta have washers because I got water flow before I even started the engine. Pretty sure this is a std 150/175 mid section as the lower has a smaller bullet than my old 2.4 200. Should I put thermostats in?

So good news in that respect you don't have a blockage thru motor which I don't think I do either but haven't done this test. I want to see if it drains off to much pressure thru the midplate dumps which is what I was worried about too. I was told these motor are NOT suppose to have tstats in them and have the washer restrictors which mine does. I believe it's done this way to help cool them at higher than 6000 rpm constant which makes them different from normal motors. I have the same flat poppet plate in mine as well. When I ran mine originally it had water to hose from poppet area but had no flow to top at all and no pressure on water gauge at all even when I revved it up. I also did lake test and it overheated quickly. I was told it could have little to no pressure at idle but should dribble out top hoses at idle and then when reving have 15 psi. I will be doing testing soon. Thanks for your input and let me know more of what you find.

[62 bugzilla]

So today I got the poppet valve installed with the rubber pieces to receive it. The motor since not designed to use a poppet valve the plastic insert into the block would not fit with the rubber insert used to seal the poppet valve so I modified it to fit. The plastic piece starts at 1.5” and the receiving area in block is approx 1.36 which I figured out using a washer that fit snug enough to get close. I then rigged up attachment to drill to spin it in some 60 grit sandpaper until it fit. Took it down to 1.40 and started test fitting it. Fit at about 1.38 snug with out having to tap it in. Used small dab of 3m weather strip adhesive to make sure it stays in place but able to exchange without to much trouble. Now have all assembled and ready for testing which I will do later this week. I’m finishing up all new gauges and switches now too. I will let you know how it goes hope I get good pressure or at least better than without seal in place.

[skialot2]

Pretty sure this is a std 150/175 mid section as the lower has a smaller bullet than my old 2.4 200. Should I put thermostats in?


A standard 150, 175, 200 all use the same size mid-section and lower units. The 150's use a 2.0 ratio. The 175/200's use a 1.87 ratio but the bullets are the same size. If you have a smaller bullet, you have a lower unit from a 150 XR4 or XR6. They are faster but not as durable.

[tlwjkw]

one thing i noticed that needs ta be changed.. looks like you are using tha billet poppet cover that came with tha BP?.. thats a no no.. it doesn't need tha hose or tha bib.. it needs ta be a regular poppet cover with tha tiny hole and without a bib.. and yes on tha T-stats.

and be sure ya stake tha grommet....

[tlwjkw]

also noticed ya have an opening on tha port side of tha adapter.. it needs a 90* fitting.. can be jus discharged inta tha air or tied inta tha port head discharge.. ya get very little discharge from it.. any way ya wanna do it.. tha one in tha center-rear is justa an idle relief discharge.. doesn't really need to go anywhere..

all those fittings are there ta be used with stock, production cowls and are justa a pain in tha butt with hi perf. type cowls....

[62 bugzilla]

also noticed ya have an opening on tha port side of tha adapter.. It needs a 90* fitting.. Can be jus discharged inta tha air or tied inta tha port head discharge.. Ya get very little discharge from it.. Any way ya wanna do it.. Tha one in tha center-rear is justa an idle relief discharge.. Doesn't really need to go anywhere..

All those fittings are there ta be used with stock, production cowls and are justa a pain in tha butt with hi perf. Type cowls....

heres the stock poppet cover i'm using.

[tlwjkw]

:thumbsup:...............

[pcrussell50]

So today I got the poppet valve installed with the rubber pieces to receive it. The motor since not designed to use a poppet valve the plastic insert into the block would not fit with the rubber insert used to seal the poppet valve so I modified it to fit. The plastic piece starts at 1.5” and the receiving area in block is approx 1.36 which I figured out using a washer that fit snug enough to get close. I then rigged up attachment to drill to spin it in some 60 grit sandpaper until it fit. Took it down to 1.40 and started test fitting it. Fit at about 1.38 snug with out having to tap it in. Used small dab of 3m weather strip adhesive to make sure it stays in place but able to exchange without to much trouble. Now have all assembled and ready for testing which I will do later this week. I’m finishing up all new gauges and switches now too. I will let you know how it goes hope I get good pressure or at least better than without seal in place.

This was a great read and I'm glad it seems like it's working out, but I'm still troubled about why you would have to go through this process. Why would Mercury cast a block with poppet chambers, but yet with a unique bore size so that you can't actually use a poppet? Unless they are all cast that way, and then the poppets are sanded by hand and hand-fit at the factory. Maybe all of us with poppets had them hand fit by a factory worker?

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one thing i noticed that needs ta be changed.. looks like you are using tha billet poppet cover that came with tha BP?.. thats a no no.. it doesn't need tha hose or tha bib.. it needs ta be a regular poppet cover with tha tiny hole and without a bib.. and yes on tha T-stats.

and be sure ya stake tha grommet....

So TL... My stock 2.4/200 has a four-bolt (two chamber) poppet with a barb on the aft chamber that runs a hose up to the starboard thermostat. Yet my two 2.0/150's have a two-bolt poppet setup (only one chamber used), with no hose barb or extra hose up the the thermostat.

Why did the the 2.4/200 have the extra plumbing? And is it OK to remove the complexity, and run the 2.4/200 with the same 2-bolt (one chamber) poppet setup as the 2.0/150?

There is a guy in another thread who has a 2.4/200 and wants to know if it's OK to run it with the one-chamber poppet and no hose running from the poppet up to the starboard thermostat.

-Peter

[62 bugzilla]

[QUOTE=pcrussell50;3403676]This was a great read and I'm glad it seems like it's working out, but I'm still troubled about why you would have to go through this process. Why would Mercury cast a block with poppet chambers, but yet with a unique bore size so that you can't actually use a poppet? Unless they are all cast that way, and then the poppets are sanded by hand and hand-fit at the factory. Maybe all of us with poppets had them hand fit by a factory worker?

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I'm actually going thru this so I don't have to use a 1 piece mid section which cost a 1000 ish and up to save a few bucks at the moment. The race motors 245, 260 280 and so on from what I have learned ran 1 piece mid which limited the flow to the lower section thus kept more water to the motor side to allow the pressure needed to cool and flow to the top of the motor. They did this so it would run no stats or poppet valve to increase flow and or volume to help with cooling when above 6500 rpms for long durations. I thought since I wasn't planning on using it exactly like that maybe I could save the money and use a more conventional cooling set up on mine. That's why they don't even have a poppet set up for one and has to be modified to accept it. I will still be looking out for a good 1 piece mid in future but have other fish to fry with this boat at the moment. If I'm wrong with any of this some please chime in but it's what i have put together with my thread and a ton of others I've read while learning about this issue.

[pcrussell50]

I understand why you are doing it. I would to the same thing.

What I don't understand is why a BP block requires hand fitting of a poppet base, unless all blocks require hand fitting of the poppet base.

-Peter

[XstreamVking]

May not get machined since it's not intended to be used.

[pcrussell50]

May not get machined since it's not intended to be used.

That's a round-about answer to what I was wondering, which implies that the hole requires a final finishing step before the base can be inserted and staked. That makes sense.

-Peter

[tlwjkw]

This was a great read and I'm glad it seems like it's working out, but I'm still troubled about why you would have to go through this process. Why would Mercury cast a block with poppet chambers, but yet with a unique bore size so that you can't actually use a poppet? Unless they are all cast that way, and then the poppets are sanded by hand and hand-fit at the factory. Maybe all of us with poppets had them hand fit by a factory worker?

===



So TL... My stock 2.4/200 has a four-bolt (two chamber) poppet with a barb on the aft chamber that runs a hose up to the starboard thermostat. Yet my two 2.0/150's have a two-bolt poppet setup (only one chamber used), with no hose barb or extra hose up the the thermostat.

Why did the the 2.4/200 have the extra plumbing? And is it OK to remove the complexity, and run the 2.4/200 with the same 2-bolt (one chamber) poppet setup as the 2.0/150?

There is a guy in another thread who has a 2.4/200 and wants to know if it's OK to run it with the one-chamber poppet and no hose running from the poppet up to the starboard thermostat.

-Peter

first i wouldn't try anything different from what its suppose ta be no mater if LOOKS LIKE it would work with a production motor ona production 2 piece adapter... hi perf, ya do what ya gotta do that requires a little experimentation, trail and error...

ta be totally truthful i don't know... tha poppet is something i paid absolutely no attention to unless it was faulty.. i don't know why merc used tha three different types.. i didn't really care at tha time.. i do know you can't mix n match tha guts of tha different types without some typ of problem.. why some (not limited ta HP and such) have tha small hole in tha rear?.. i do know tha 4 hole with tha bib on tha large end that went to tha top of tha block came about in late '89.. it was to help with coolin tha reg/rectifier (air pockets) that was a joke.. tha other 4 hole with tha bib on tha small end i have no clue.. like i said before i ran very few two piece plates on anything i had... so i paid little attention to 'em................. wish i knew more.

i have never seen (or recall seein') any block, production or hi perf.) with a small hole where tha bushin' goes that i can recall for whatever thats worth............... T

[62 bugzilla]

So since last post I installed new gauges and poppet valve with tsats and tested it. I first off need and different piece that attached to plastic poppet valve and is sandwiched between the metal cap and block because it doesn't seal to perfectly and I think I'm loosing some pressure from that now. (was also weird that I has to modify and widen the hole to fit as posted on earlier thread) It is on order. But when I tested in drive way I did finally have 12 to 15psi and idle on gauge so I was very happy even with small leak and drip. stayed nice and cool at idle as well with even temps on all cylinders. I then took out to the water to test and when running at 3k rpms it would lower the psi down to 5 or so and then proceed to heat up and got to 180 and my new alarm set up went off and I then idled and it went back to 15psi and cooled back down. I think it is loosing pressure out that gasket so will retest and all sealed up and see how it does. I also think I fouled a plug since it wasn't running right very smokey and rich at idle especially and oil slime out of exhaust. I checked the 90 degree fitting going to ecu per chris carlson suggestion and it was plugged solid so cleaned it out but i think the plugs were already fouled. I will test in driveway after new plugs. The hose going to the ecu was very hard and i think i want to change all the small hoses on the motor also. I'm not sure if the ecu hose connection is easy to access or not? Also going to be sending out injectors to be cleaned and tested by chris carlson and will be replacing reeds as well after inspection which they are probably old from the condition of the rest of the engine. Still working on things but getting closer for sure.