Tunnel Extension For 24 Skater

[apache21]

Does anyone have a pic of a tunnel extension for a 24 skater. I am looking at adding one. I heard lightng powerboats uses them on there 21 and 24.

[skatermike24]

The boat doesn't need one!

[LaserModVee]

I can see adding a tab, but an extension?????:confused: :confused:

[Shaneskater24]

I would leave your 24 alone. I have one and the boat needs no more help than proper heigth on the transom and correct trim position. Be safe.

[skatermike24]

Apache21, I looked into the same thing when I got my 24, I wanted to do anything and everything to make the boat go faster, I talked to Peter at Skater and learned that the 24 does not need anything to make it run better, good motors proper height, and proping will do it, good luck.

[apache21]

what kind of setback is needed? 2in spacers or 5.5 cmc jackplates. I plan on running 91 200xri mercs. 14x30 cleavers.

[Liberator25]

Describe "proper height on the transom". I've been advised to run the motors with the propshaft center line at 1 1/4" above the bottom of the sponson, and never more than 2" above. What's your take on the "right" height.

[TeamSunset]

If you don't like the porp... slow down or do what you bought it in the first place for... GO FAST! I love my 24.

[Shaneskater24]

Originally posted by Liberator25
Describe "proper height on the transom". I've been advised to run the motors with the propshaft center line at 1 1/4" above the bottom of the sponson, and never more than 2" above. What's your take on the "right" height.

I am using CNC mechanical jack plates. I do not remember the exact height above the bottom. I can verify it next weekend for you as I will be at my lake house beginning Thursday. This weekend i am running with a friend in a poker run on his boat. It took a while and a lot of patience to ensure proper water pressure etc. However, with 225 Pro Max power heads with all my 2.5 carb components mounted to them I am spinning 14.5 X 30 Merc labbed props over 100 when trimmed out and will run 94 with plenty of negative trim. If you need more info let me know.

Shane

[LPB]

How many of you skater owners have ever tested a tunnel Extenion,and how many of your boats porpoise ? I have been testing tunnel tabs and tunnel Extenions,now for 7 years,from different lenths to compressing and releiving tunnel pressure,please know your facts befor making harsh negitive stayments about tunnel extenions,they work great,come to sarasota Fl and I will be happy to show the difference,with or with out tunnel extenions,in 7 years I have never had ( ANY ONE ASK ME TO TAKE ONE OFF) it can be as big a difference from your best to your worst props!!Please don't take my word for it ,see it for yourself !! JOHN LIGHTNING POWER BOATS Think about it,why dose a cat run faster than a V bottom,its all about drag,less drag makes you go faster,more lift creates less drag,tunnel extenions create more lift where you need it most, at the transome where most of the weight is( MOTORS) Its pretty simple to see how it works,the only thing hard about making a boat go faster is the $$$$$$$$$$$$ it takes to do it!!

[skatermike24]

Hey John, get back to building boats and leave us Skater owners alone, just kidding have fun on the 4th, were spending the weekend over at Fort Desoto.:D

[LPB]

You have a great time over at shell Island,im sure you'll have alot of fun,hope the Wife and Little one are doing GREAT hope to see ya soon !! John

[Brad Zastrow]

I have been told by the offshore guys do not use them. They will help the porpoise issue. However now there is an added lever to help trip you. Hit the big wave, nose high in the air, come down trip the transom on the tab and now maybe stuff nose first. Nah... I will not drive my cat at the small window of speed where it porpoises. Drive through it.

[Shaneskater24]

LPB,

Certainly you are correct with your statement about controlling teh porpoise. My 24 does it and I hate it. However, As was stated, in the rough stuff it can also be a major tripping point. Certainly knowing how and when to use them is important. I have spoken with Peter Hledin about them and he strongly advises against them on such a small boat. I would say he is as good a source this kind of information as anyone could be.

[apache21]

I am really confused on using one. I have spoke to guys that have the tabs and the love them, others say not to have them. I noticed when I went to skater plant three months ago I noticed some 40's and 46's with extensions. Also peter said not to use jackplates because there is no need. I plan on doing more traveling at 60 -80 in my cat with my wife and kid along. Also I will be running 200 hp engines. John I have not recieved a pic of your tunnel extension. I will be running my boat mostly at a lake. Thanks guys for all your advice

[WILDMAN]

I don't know about the extensions but the 24ft Liberator,{ which is the same bottom as the Skater} porpoises alot in calmer water, under a foot. Over a foot, runs smooth as can be. I started using tunnel tabs recently, and they solved the problem! I now recommend them on all 24's. That porpoising gets really annoying.

[Liberator25]

I have a tunnel tab and put me in the "love it" pile. Mine is a DANA Monster Tab (about 18" wide and 30" long). It's just a trim tab, no more no less and it's not voodoo. LOTS of offshore V bottoms use trim tabs and the principle is identical. I only use my tab to improve my planeing performance as it causes the boat to roll over and plane much quicker than trimming in the engines. I have two merc 300x motors for power and two 15x34 lab cleavers so planeing is a project, with the tab it rolls over like a set of 28 pitch props. As soon as it comes on plane, I neutralize the tab (trim it so that it is parallel to the top of the tunnel) and it becomes little more than an extension of the tunnel roof. When the porpoise thing starts, a LITTLE tab down makes it go away COMPLETELY. It makes the boat much more fun and the porpoise zone (at least on my boat) is right where I like to run, say 55 to about 80 or so. Above 80, just tab it up all the way to the stop and it's as though there is no tab. Don't use it at speed cause the stuff issue comes into play. With it all the way up, this is not any concern. I am not an off shore racer, just a guy with a 100 plus lake tunnel so the "big waves trip you up" thing never happens. I generally just go fast straight ahead so my risk level is lower than some. You'll need to assess your needs, your intended use and my point is that you can always tab it up all the way and play like you don't have a tab, and when the family and friends are along, you can cruise the midrange without the hop. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have. Just another opinion for you to consider.:cool:

[WILDMAN]

Lib25, could'nt of said it better! Here's a pic of Liberator25's Dana tab

[Liberator25]

You jumpin' something or is that a "normal" attitude for the Lib. Mine runs a LOT flatter than that. When my nose gets up that high, it scares the crap out of me.:D The 34's picked up around 5 mph and we're "upping" the motors now. Check with Dave to see how it ran. Prior to this, but with the 34's it ran 104 in a freakin' wind storm (from the side). Kept blowin' the nose off course and Dave had to crank in some rudder to keep it goin' straight. You know that had to scrub off a little. In good water it should be faster. So far so good, will continue to let you know how it's going.:D

[WILDMAN]

Ron, that's not the normal attitude. That's not me driving. Actually, he said it was porpoising when the pic was taken. Then I told him about using the tab. Gus in Key Largo has 1999 300's on his 24 Liberator with 34 cleavers. He said he has run 107.6 with 4 people in the boat! Those aren't even "X" motors! Yours has to run over 110! Dave said the lake was VERY bad when he drove your boat. Just trim it till it starts slipping, then trim it down a hair. It may get scary, but that's when it gets exciting! Also, run some of that gas out of it. I wanna hear the numbers. Here's a pic of the normal running attitude. See-ya, WILDMAN

[Airboater]

Heres one I saw at the RBR I think it was a Extreme out or miani.

[WILDMAN]

That's a 21ft Lightning

[Brad Zastrow]

Apache, Do not compare a 40-46' Skater to 24' I have also seen those tunnel extensions and they are about the same size as what guys put on 24's. The weight and length of a 40 Skater would make it nearly impossible to trip the boat with a 2' extension. They will work and they will be a potential hazard.

[LaserModVee]

I got to talking to an ex-offshore racer and at one time, an employee of Skater.
I was talking about adding a tab to my 24 Skater.
He raced a 24 Skater for years.
His 24 ran a tab, not an extension, with success.
That was until the boat tripped, with the help of the tab, and flipped the boat nose first, killing his throttleman.

I know you guys aren't racing, blah, blah, blah...
But you are running high speeds, you can and will hit rogue waves in a lake, a bay, a river, or the ocean.

Sure you can run the tab up when you are flying, it's still back there, it still trips.

Ask yourself why is it Hledin strongly discourages it?

[Liberator25]

Hey, I've got a suggestion for you ... don't use a tab!!

Here's more for you to "contemplate". Too much nose up equals blowover, too much nose down equals stuff, balance all that out equals FUN. Everybody has something to worry about. I don't run flat out in traffic or where traffic has been recently (no rouge waves). I only run on the big end early am or late pm when there is no crowd and no jet ski's to deal with. 99% of the time I run less than 70 and I don't want to hop. It's really simple, as I said I love the thing and it's OK if you don't. The real issue, as I previously pointed out, is to assess your needs, assess your risk and decide accordingly. There are lots of people who wonder why ANYONE would want to run 100 on water. Going that fast is inherently risky (tab or no) and never routine. About the best you can do is try to manage the risk. I think that's where the fun is anyway. Get close enough to "feel" it but not so close you go over the edge. When I crank it up, I always wear the dead man, a quality life jacket and a fully retracted tab. These are circumstances that I consider acceptable for me relative to my need to manage risk. Others may choose not to wear a life jacket when "recreational racing", others may feel a tab is too risky. You makes your choices and I makes mine. My decisions and opinions aren't right or wrong, they're just mine. Single engine Cat's can (and do) break a skeg and forget which end is the front and which end is the back, so does Hledin not recommend a single engine arrangement on a 21 Skater? I am personnally much more comfortable with a twin engine 24 with a Tab than a 21 with a single engine. But again, that's just a personal thing.

[LaserModVee]

Thanks for the suggestion, I don't run one!
Like I said in my post, I was comtemplating adding a tab at one time.
I did my research. I listened to those with tons of experience and knowledge on the subject. I made my decision.
I am mearly trying to spread what I learned to the gentleman that started this thread.

This same question has been asked on this board several times now. Like many other questions that come up on this board time to time....not necessarily a right answer, not necessarily a wrong one. Just a few different ways to skin a cat?

I run the Gulf of Mexico.
Rogue waves are always an issue.
I wear an SRP jacket as well.

Hledin designed the 21 for single engine configs. Only 5 or so were rigged for twins out of the factory. He had the big V8's of the day in mind when building that boat. There is a way to run those boats without breaking skegs....but that's a whole other thread :).
I like the 21 with twins and a tab personally, but that's just me. ;)

[at100plus]

Here's one of LPB's boat with an extension on it.

I'm thinking more along the lines of just not driving in the porp zone is the better bet. That extension is an expensive piece for what it is, and I don't need any help tripping and stuffing, I can do that on my own.

PS - Just saw the one that Airboater posted a pic of on the Xtreme. That thing is huge. Looks like a liability to me!

[Liberator25]

Extension or no, tab or no, that is a NASTY lookin' boat. I know the 24 will honk with twins, any idea how fast this 21 is?

[at100plus]

21 with reg PM 300 does mid to high 90s maybe even 100

21 with 300X does just over 100 have heard up to 108

21 with twin 260s does near 120 and accelerates like an STV or Allison!

[LPB]

That is one of our older Extensions ,it's only 24",we have found that a 30" Extension works best on my 21 Cats,if you guys look and take some measurements you will see that the gear cases will be the first thing to hit the water if you stand it up, As far as SPEEDS posted,I keep hearing these SPEEDS OF 100-110mph with single 300X,I guess I will have to save some money up to pay someone to show me these #'s,the guys down in miami are claiming 110 with one of the new EXSTREAM 21 CATS,I was not at the RBR but have been told that the fastest 21 cat with a single only went 98 mph, I think the only way to get a single engine 21 cat to run 110 will take a very light boat(800-1000LBS) and more than three hundred HORSES,So all you guys with 21 SKATERS, or 21' EXstreams,Get your boats ready,befor the summers over,I will come up with some money,to bring us all together and get some #'s of what they can really do,I put my foot in my mouth last year and said,I didn't think a Mirage or an STV could run 125mph,and it cost myself and a few friends $800.00,well I guess I will do it again,I don't think a 21 cat single will run 110mph,and will start saving my money to prove it!! john

[skatermike24]

John I'm with you , 110 with a single, no way!!!!!!!;)

[Liberator25]

John,

If you've found that a 30" extension works best on a 21, how long is the one on your 24? With twins, seems like there would be some interference with the motors if you put a 30" on in that application. Got Pics?

[Thunderduck]

[B]Your $$$ is safe!! Those 110+ mph "speed boats" always seem to have a mechanical problem whenever I show up. They must be using those "digital" speedometers from Big Lots.

[at100plus]

I know several guys claiming 105+ with 300X 21 Skaters and one with a regular Pro Max getting over 100. The key to the speed is engine height. One guy doing 108 is running a boat mounted water pickup to allow extreme heights, but he compromises safety, he has broken three skegs this year. After a close call he made a pass at 108 stopped and found the whole skeg busted off to the point that the gears were showing. After that, he has decided to calm down a bit with all the height.

I think 110 is possible with a 300X in optimum conditions, but 104 or so is the speed they will hit every time. A slightly modded 300X should certainly push these 21s to 110.

My boat has done 95.7 so far with single regular PM 300 that's with the back seat (which is about 200 lbs) full gear, twin batteries, and 40 gals of fuel (driver only). I think my boat has 100 in it, but I'm really not in a hurry to get it, I'm happy with 95. It does 93 every day with my wife and I aboard. I also prefer to run my 4 blade for the sake of keeping my skeg in tact too. I hear 3 bladers put more strain on the skeg.

John, Performance Propellers makes a great all around 4 blade semi cleaver for this boat, I like the prop so much, I never want to try others.....

[at100plus]

Love this boat, was running over some sloppy boat wakes at 90 with 3 aboard yesterday on Greenwood Lake NJ/NY. Had a great day.

[skatermike24]

Never happen on a 21 Skater!

[at100plus]

If a 21 Intimidator (Superboat copy) can do 100 why can't a 21 Skater do 110? There's someone out there who can pull it off, but yes, I think 105 is the norm for a 300X powered 21.

[at100plus]

I love this pic.

[skatermike24]

Thats my old 21 Skater when i had it it had a 2.4 on it, I think the 21 is to heavy for that kind of speeds, specially the older ones.

[LaserModVee]

Here's one of my favorite 21 pics

133 mph gps

[at100plus]

What was the top speed on that red one? Ron Pratt is considering buying it. It's been for sale for a while. Didn't it belong to RacerX too?

[skatermike24]

With a single it ran 85 when I had it, don't know what or where its been after I sold it.

[at100plus]

That boat was built for single? The transom looks flat, don't all the single built boats have rounded transoms? This boat looks original, are you sure it was yours?

[skatermike24]

That was mine 21, looks like someone reglassed the transom on it, also I reconize the trailer, its now for sale at a marina up north, isn't it?

[skatermike24]

Here is my old boat, I think its the same boat,http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/6/49887766.htm

[at100plus]

It's been on Boattrader for a long time. It's out in Wisconsin or something.


Has the interior been redone too? It looks nice, soft and clean upholstery.

[skatermike24]

Yep, interior use to be red with blue strips, boat looks good.

[skatermike24]

How I can tell its was mine is that if you look at hte picture you will see two strakes under the boat instead of one, the second one was added for more lift.

[at100plus]

Yea it does have two strakes, I knew something was different looking about that bottom. Lightning does that to his Skater copies. What kind of difference does it make? Did YOU have that done?

That boat has had some significant modification done to it over the years huh?

[LPB]

Skatermikes boat became the plug for LIGHTNING POWER BOATS 21 cat,we did all the work on that, bottom,that boat has had a lot of screw holes fixed on the bottom ,I spent 6 months testing and,changing the strakes around,till we got it right !!! John LIGHTNING

[AlaskaStreamin]

WOAH!!!!!! Whew, I'm glad I heard that!!! I'm backing off this one!! I was close to offering mid 20'S for it.

John, How much for a unrigged 21' W/ interior??

[at100plus]

So that's why it's been for sale for so long.....

[Liberator25]

Tunnel Extensions, talk about tunnel extensions.:o

[at100plus]

Tangent

[apache21]

I thought you guys would like to see a pic of my 89 skater. She is mint. Bought it from a friend of peter at skater. Plan on getting engines soon

[apache21]

p

[at100plus]

It's a 24 right? What do you have twin Johnny's on the back?

[MERCMAN]

you could easily stuff a 24 with a plane or extension , i like to use a plane on the 24 so you can lift it up at top end speeds or put it down to cruise , everyone i have ever known with a 24 wants to get rid of the porpoise , your whole day on the water doesnt consist of just 35 or 100+ beleive me!

[Hydropimp911]

anyone need any help with skaters me and my parents have a 46 skater.. Just email me at pjbray10@aol.com

[apache21]

Yes it's a 24. It has every option from the factory. I have the orginal invoice/sales sheet on the boat for $60,175