Comp Vector thread

[JoshP1]

My wife and I have been talking about me getting another fast boat for a couple years now as I am not happy with the max speed I get from my Xpress H22bay (50mph +-). I was dead set on an Allison XB2003 and was planning to get rid of the Xpress. I look at Facebook Marketplace fairly often and a few days ago I found a Hydrostream Vector in Houma, LA. The young man and I sent messages back and fourth a little and I ended up picking it up last night. So now I have the absolute ugliest boat on the face of the planet and am totally, 100% in love!!! I have dreamed of having one of these hooked nose, sculpted deck boats since I was a kid!

Before we start with the obligatory everything wood must be torn out, I know. I did a Viper and jumped in head first on it. There is a thread somewhere in here I started, but never finished. With this boat I want to add a basic interior, ie: floor, bench seat at the back, two buckets at the front. I imagine adding the floor would be the same as putting one into a core boat other than I have two sets of stringers and no core. I'm also planning on adding a floatation box under the deck like my Viper had. Adding all of this is going to make my boat heavier, but I want to make a comfortable for four of us to ride in at the same time.

By the way, it a 1986 built in March with a black hull and big flake green deck. The splash well has been deleted and there was a center seat box built up front. It looks like someone added transom knees after the fact and at one point, it had a foot throttle on a pedalstool. I'll take/post pictures in a little bit as I'm just getting my day started. She is definitely going to need a bunch of love to get to hauling my fat self around.

Josh

[JoshP1]

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[LakeFever]

Nice! Here comes the itch ;) keep updating and ask any questions you have along the way. Plenty of good dudes here who will help you out

[JoshP1]

LF, thanks man. I've been on here since about 2005 or so. Great community. I do have the itch and the dust hasn't even started flying yet!!! That last Viper was brutal! Luckily with Vector there will be a lot less glass work. I'm not planning to get crazy with anything, but do plan to remove all the wood to be replaced with composite. It should last forever after that. Not sure on power right now, probably look for a 2.4 Merc later. I'm inclined to work on mechanical things instead of computerized, meaning I have no idea what I'm doing with modern fuel injection systems or ECUs.

[LakeFever]

The efi stuff has nice manners around the dock, starts easy. Otherwise it dont do anything carbs wont do.

[tnelsmn]

Awesome platform to start with! A vector will be my next build as well. Looking forward to watching the build come together! Quick tip for pictures on this old website, take them landscape and they'll show up here orientated correctly.

[JoshP1]

Quick question with a probable long answer! I am going to redo the stringers, transom, and add knees to this boat. It is a comp hull with the four stringers, no floor, and no core. Would I see any problems with NOT setting the hull on a cradle? If could get this done on the trailer, it would save me a ton of money and would be done a heck of a lot quicker (relative term). I may just be thinking out loud, but my thinking process is, there is no core to be replaced, so I should have a fairly stiff hull compared to one with all the core removed. I'm really just trying to make this as easy as possible on my wallet. I know I can not skimp on materials for the layups and composition of structural members.

Edited to say the trailer is a four bunk trailer using flat 2x4 next to the pad and vertical 2x6 between the outside and middle lift strakes.

[JoshP1]

"T", thanks for suggestion on the pictures! I'll definitely keep it in mind when I take the next round!

[JoshP1]

I started cleaning her out today. I am going to take it slow and rebuild this thing right. I'm on a budget as the wife is the CFO in the home! She actually got the boat for Christmas for me! After moving around a bit in the hull, I think I'm going to need a cradle. This thing is a potato chip! I can lay under the deck and almost see through the glass with the gelcoat. There is some type of core material attached to the underside. I don't believe it's from the factory as the same type is under the deleted splash well. There is no core in the hull other than where the bow eye and drain plug are located. I am going to redo the transom as well as I can almost pull out one of the eyes. I'm still undecided on splitting the deck from the hull.

Pros: It would be easier to reach everything on the inside of both as I plan to replace all wood with composite. I would be able to clean up the outer edges of each for a much better transition between them.

Cons: I'll have to actually split them apart. Both will become very flimsy alone. I will definitely have to build a cradle to support the hull while the deck is off.

Any input from you guys would be helpful as these are the things I can think of right now. I've been looking at places to get supplies from and different types of supplies to put in. I'm probably going to get most of it from boat builder central as it'll be easier to keep track of for me.

From what I can tell, there is a seat box built in for the driver. There was a small floor put in between the two inboard stringers from the trailing edge of the seat box to approximately 10 inches in front of the bilge area. The inboard stringers were 6 inches tall by half inch thick and 64 inches long. There are transom knees that were an afterthought on top of the inner stringers as well. The knees go approximately 3/4 up the transom. The outboard stringers were four inches tall by half inch thick and 118.5 inches long. My plan is to replace both sets of stringers. They are all rotten and mostly torn out. I will put the outboard stringers against the outer edge of the lifting strake instead of making a radius from the outer edge of the transom (inside of the strake) to the outer edge of the strake at the midship area and finally back to the inner edge of the strake in front of the dashboard area. In doing this with the outboard stringers, I'll be able to install a floor between the outer stringers, over the inner stringers, which will be stiff enough to provide support to the hull and passengers. I even thought about adding core material to the inside of the hull between the inner stringers and between the inner and outer stringers to make it more like a non-comp hull, but that would defeat the whole purpose of having a comp hull. I would also love to put a windshield on it, but it never had one and doesn't even have the cutouts on the upper "wings" at the back of the cockpit. I think my seat is an Allison copy and I will be making another just like it. Then I'll use it to make a pattern to build a bench seat for the back.

I was going to look for a 2.4/2.5 Merc for it, but my brother-in-law bought an old crossflow Evinrude from one of my uncles he is willing to give me. I know it started as a 115 and was upgraded to the 140 during the late '90s/early 00s. I plan to go through it to get it running, but will definitely run it for a while. I had the same motor on a 16 foot Cajun skiff built out of all 3/16 aluminum with a 4 foot bottom. That boat ran above 70 with no issue. I used to beat jetskis all the time. I also beat a late '90s Sprint with a 225 Mercury on it. I have no idea how fast top end was, but that boat was very heavy compared to this Hydrostream. The motor should push my Vector just fine as I'm not looking to go Mach 1, LOL!

[LakeFever]

Comp hulls still have core from the ones ive seen although i cant say ive seen a factory comp vector before. Regardless the glass on these things is sooooo thin i would absolutely core it. Tony and I laid the core over the bare hull, then put the stringers on top. From the factory they are laid up as you plan the stringers on the hull and core in between.

as for doing the work on the trailer many do this and have fine results. If you split the cap off i cant see how you can manage the build properly without a cradle. Mine was so floppy once the cap was removed. Plus you want to keep the pad and chines true and square when your laminating it back solid. There are ways to keep costs low by using cheap marine ply and poly resin. My feelings are pay the extra for vinylester because it bonds to old glass so much better plus it has other beneficial attributes over poly. Coosa is great, light, but so pricey. Core can be laid in over heavily wetted csm i believe most use 1.5oz just be sure to prime the balsa a lot until it stops soaking resin, at least two coats and get in in between the pieces too. Or use foam core and corebond for a waterproof easy install. More cost in materials but many top shelf guys prefer using no wood at all nowadays. Makes sense i guess. I used vinylester resin, corebond, balsa core, coosa everything else.

[JoshP1]

Lake, My '78 Viper was a core boat and was a sloppy mess when I got it. It had the stringers laid in on the bottom of the hull with the balsa core laid in between like you explained above. This '86 Vector doesn't have any balsa core at all. If there was factory core in it at one point, someone took a lot of time to get it out without leaving any trace. There is a seat box up front with what appears to be a very short "box stringer" under it. The box is about as wide as the center concave portion of the pad just so water/trash can flow through the seat box to the bilge area. the rest of the seat box is molded in to the hull bottom. All of the glass in the seat box appears to be blown or shot in with plywood structure from port to starboard. There is no wood for the seat box from fore to aft other than the four main stringers. The blown/shot chop glass appears to be the same as the underneath of the deck and is sloppy like a "Friday boat". Meaning, the guys at the factory sprayed that part on Friday with the weekend quickly approaching and a big party on the horizon. A lot of my Viper was sprayed like that and it was basically junk. I wish I would have kept that boat now and would have finished it, I could have had a matching pair of the two first models from what I understand.

As far as splitting the deck/hull, I would have to cut out a portion of the deleted splash well in order to replace the transom. I also want to install transom knees that span the total height of the transom for batter strength. I almost want to cut out the whole deleted splash well leaving only the most forward edge in place to make reassembly a little easier. I'll have to do some adjusting of the hull on trailer position to get it to lay flat enough where I would be comfortable enough to finish cutting out the stringers. Right now as the hull sits on the bunks, it rocks like a rocking chair. The bow is about a foot and a half or so from the bow roller at the trailer tongue. I don't want the bow on that roller because it has already bashed the gel and glass pretty bad.

[LakeFever]

If the hull has been redone in glass only it should be rigid enough to withstand a cap separation without distorting. I would think this would have taken considerable glass lays to make it sound enough without a core. Something like 7-9 layers of 1708. Then again some race focused guys are not all that focused on strength just on lightweight so who knows? This type of layup runs past my pay grade here i dont know what to suggest in lieu of a new core. Have you placed a long straight edge down the pad? Post some close up pics of the hull

[rjdubiel]

you are in for a compete rebuild so take a drill and drill from the inside of the boat in the pad and other areas as I bet there is core. Don't drill through the hull, just the inside layer of glass and see what you have under there. Also you can do the rebuild on the trailer but make sure to support the bow and the rest of the hull so that it is square and straight before you start putting it back together.

[XstreamVking]

If you can, do an accurate weight before and after the re-build.

[Dave S]

Me thinks this is a copy/ splash....Flat deck..... no notches for windshield.... and no well......I may be wrong..... I am not a stream guru ..... Forshure......:p....:cheers:

[XstreamVking]

Good eye Dave S I had not seen the differences.

[tnelsmn]

I think you can do it on the trailer. Lots of people here have done that. Thats my plan for the next build, however I would add extra supports to the trailer to hold the hull better. You could make a few extra bunks with some 2x6's and some U bolts. There's some money and time into building a cradle. Mine went pretty far overboard and could've been done with less plywood.

My advice would be to ensure the pad is supported, the running surface along either side of the pad is supported, and the chines are supported. Also ensure the bow isn't allowed to move around.

I would add core into the hull. Whether it came with it or not. Unless you're planning on nothing but strictly a potato chip race boat.

[Dave S]

Still a good starting point.......Wonder what it was copied from.....From what I think comp boats had a flat pad......Think/ drink......:cheers:.....I am not a stream guru ......just have 3......

[JoshP1]

Thanks for the replies guys! I bought 2 sheets of 3/4" treated plywood for a cradle. Cost me about $100. My plan is to build a cradle and take over my carport for the rebuild. I have no idea if it's a copy. The hull looks just like my old Viper, but I haven't had that boat for over 10 years. This is going to be a long-term project because my wife has me on a shoestring budget. I'll be able to get whatever type of materials I want, just gonna take a long time. I'm in law enforcement so the funds I had on the last boat resto are gone.

Unfortunately, I have no way to weigh it. What has me scratching my head right now is the HIN. It's a Hydrostream HIN as referencing the websites.

[Instigator]

Didn’t read your entire thread but if you want your Vector to fly true/straight, yes to the jig.

95% of people will tell you trailer is fine which is insane.
And 99% of them have never done it.
Ask them, and how fast they went w/finished product ��

Take the boat off it and move it around and watch it flex.
It may be straight on level ground but park it on a grade and watch it twist like a pretzel.
Bunks straight parallel, square?
Cuz you are getting a mirrored image of that.

And you want a jig, not a cradle.
That means straight, level, square and bolted to the floor.

When I put my pleasure Vector on my jig the aft, starboard corner set 1 1/2” above the cradle!
It was that way from the factory!

After I removed floor, stringers, core, I then tied it down, so it was straight then put it back together.

I converted it to Comp style w/no floor and bullet proofed stringers and a new core.

543 lbs once complete.

Ended up being a kick ass lil boat and went everywhere.

Ran an overweight OMC looper which the experts said would never work and loved it!

Good luck, be careful and have fun.
It will bite you if you don’t pay attention to what it wants.

[JoshP1]

I plan on having my wife and 2 kids in the boat at times. The lakes here are NOTORIUS for giant waves if you sneeze too hard, so I think I'm going to put in a core. I took a pic of the HIN.514042 I also noticed the inside of the cockpit doesn't have the dropdowns like I thought I remember seeing on the Vectors, Vikings, Vkings. Not sure if that makes any difference. I do see where the inside of the gunnels up to the split line have biax instead of chop mat.

With it on the trailer and no stringers in it, the hull flexes just by moving the boat. It doesn't weigh much either, I'm thinking around 350-400 lbs. I have to wait to get more wood for the jig or cradle. I also will not be drilling into my carport as that is the only feasible place I have to work in it. I'm not planning to win any races, I just want something that runs about 70 mph and is fun to drive.

[tnelsmn]

Vectors never had the drop downs on the gunnels like the Vikings do.

Vector with a 2.5 will do a lot better than 70 depending on the set up.

[LakeFever]

Imo the cradle is the best way to approach this. I didnt bolt mine down it sat very steady and i got all my chines and pad blueprinted to very exacting tolerances. I could jack up the cradle and bolt on casters when i wanted to move it. I cant imagine trying to do half of what i did with the cap on or on the trailer

[Instigator]

I had a friend do one on its trailer.
Never ran right and they didn’t know why.

To the point that one of our mutual buddies crawled under the front deck while they ran it, to try and tame it.
It didn’t work and he was battered and bruised for wks!

Build your cradle, put a level on both ends and both sides.
Now lift it and put you casters on it and roll it around.

Now hit it again w/your level.

I learned to do this when building/racing kneel down hydros after doing it w/o.
Difference was drastic and it stuck w/me.

Couple yrs ago I built a 9’ dinghy for a cruiser we had and, I built it on a jig, bolted to the concrete floor of my shop.

Clearly the author of this thread won’t and that’s fine.
But, I do it w/one screw at each corner, that leaves a 1/4” hole that’s easy to fill when your done.

My Vector ran 72 w/it’s twisted hull before I straightened it so, roll the dice.

He picked one of THE most difficult vee bottoms on the planet to drive straight and w/his wife and two kids in it.

Just trying to help.

[LakeFever]

Your absolutely spot on there. You cant be too accurate and surely if a job of this size is taken on it should be done as well as possible

[Instigator]

I did get away w/cheating once.

Also, was not a race boat.

Square/level the bunks on your trailer, w/boat on it, then put the trailer on Jack stands.
Level them then tie the hull to the trailer.

[JoshP1]

Well, I just dumped another $100 on plywood for the cradle. I need to measure a lot to see if I can get away with using half sheets cut longways for the crossmembers of the cradle. I already have a lot of 2×4s from a demo job I did for my neighbor. Those will be the rest of the cradle. I have been thinking more about tying the cradle into my slab. That is a pretty good possibility at this point. I just need to clear out space around the perimeter to be able to move.

[Dave S]

Like the Wood........:cheers:....

[JoshP1]

So far I have 4 sheets of 3/4" 4'×8' treated plywood for the crossmembers. I have about 40 2"×4"×10' and about 12 2×4×8'. I've been thinking more about what type and how many anchors to use. Any suggestions? I was thinking 6 to bolt it to the slab.

[Instigator]

Very cool.

Dont worry what wood you use where on your cradle.
It is a sacrificial component of the build.

If you assemble it w/drywall screws, you can disassemble it when your project is complete and re-use 90% of the lumber.

Remember, all your doing is building a box that is flat, square and straight.

When you start second guessing yourself on whether something is straight/level on the boat during rebuild, knowing it’s on a straight jig makes that part easy.

BTW, most of my jigs are either 2x3 (cheaper than 2x4) or 2x4 framed, skinned with 1/4” ply.




Well, I just dumped another $100 on plywood for the cradle. I need to measure a lot to see if I can get away with using half sheets cut longways for the crossmembers of the cradle. I already have a lot of 2×4s from a demo job I did for my neighbor. Those will be the rest of the cradle. I have been thinking more about tying the cradle into my slab. That is a pretty good possibility at this point. I just need to clear out space around the perimeter to be able to move.

[LakeFever]

When doing my homework on the cradle many of the builds had mentioned hook or twist in the hull. Apparently common from resin therm curing issues back in production as well as distortion from bad trailer support over the years. I used a self levelling cross line laser i broadcast over the hull. I put 12” lengthwise marks with post it notes and measured down each side using this to level all the strakes and pad out as close to perfect as possible. I used taper shims to get it all true. When i was satisfied i lifted the hull straight up and laid kitty hair over all the cradle and put parchment paper over then sat it back down until cured. The cradle was then a perfect fit. I used 3/4” ply, 2x6 and 2x8 and boxed/braced it every which way possible because i rolled mine in and out a few times. I did the same laser thing when i flipped it to fare and blueprint the running surface. Theres pics of this in my build thread if you cant make sense of that. Hope it’s of some help

[XstreamVking]

Biggest thing is same side to side shape. That's what makes them run true with less china wok.

[LakeFever]

Forgot to mention i made a transom brace from 3/4 and two 2x6 bolted to the cradle so i could clamp the hull in its place and to aid in bonding the transom core

[JoshP1]

Well, I looked into a place to purchase composites from for the transom, core, stringers, etc. They, apparently, do not ship to Louisiana. I need a place that will either be local to the Baton Rouge area or will ship to my house. I am going to rebuild my boat with all composites instead of wood so I never have to worry about it rotting away again. Any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!

[tnelsmn]

I bought everything from these guys. They are local to me but I believe they ship as well.
https://www.expresscomposites.com/

[rgsauger]

Check boatbuildercentral.com

[JoshP1]

T, I'll check them out now. RG, I was looking at buying my stuff from them, but they don't ship to me. Thanks y'all.

[rgsauger]

Well shucks. Call the composite company and ask them for a distributor in your area.

[JoshP1]

RG, I got on the Coosa website and found a distributor in the New Orleans area. Plenty close enough for me to drive there without much issue, even pulling a trailer. On a side note, I finally started building the cradle. So far, the hardest thing to do was move the boat back on the trailer to accurately mark cut lines on my first cross member. I should be able to finish the bulk of the cradle this weekend as I have 3 days off every other weekend. I'm so ready to go fast again, but there is absolutely no way I want to rush this restoration. As always, thanks for the help!

[LakeFever]

I coosa’d everything aside from the core. After doing this a discussion popped up here about coosa transoms being excessive nvh and how manufacturers got away from coosa transoms and back to wood because of this. I havent run mine yet so i cant say how harsh it is but figured id mention it. Another plus is wood is stronger too. I think id do my transom in Okume wood if i could start over.

[VkingMike]

My transom is Coosa and it does transfer quite a bit of vibration. Then again, I run solid engine mounts. But I don't have much to compare it too, since my wood transom was a soggy mess that likely soaked up most of it previously lol

[rgsauger]

I used Hydrotech marine ply and epoxy resin for my whole resto of transom and everything else. Cap off build. Was totally pleased with Hydrotech product.

[XstreamVking]

Coosa structure and divinnycell core on mine. Was redone by me many years ago. Vinyl resin and 1708 glass. The boat hull is a very light, tight unit with no flex or cracks. You can use wood for a more quiet ride. I just like working with the foams and core board better. Running a 250 optimax (505#'s) , no concerns with the trans or hull after a lot of miles. Including ruff salt water.

[JoshP1]

515935

Ive tried to attach a couple more, but the site says they're too large. I've cut them down, but still too large. No idea why.

[JoshP1]

Just tried to add another pic. The site says it is 20.xx mb and needs to be no more than 400 kb. No idea how to fix this???

[JoshP1]

Ok, so I need to get back to the boat. We had a huge mishap in the house where my central air unit froze, flooded some walls, ceilings, and floors. Then we had to replace all of the messed up stuff. New flooring installed, sheetrock repaired, new baseboards, and soon to be painting. It has also been ridiculously hot down here for months! There was no way I was getting into a Tyvek suit when it's over 95* F with 95% humidity under my carport. I picked up a couple rolls of fiberglass (chop strand and woven) from a guy who only used about 6 feet off each roll. He paid $1200 for both new and sold both for $600, so I definitely could not pass that up. I ordered my epoxy a couple days ago and it should be here within the week. I also picked up a '95(?) 150 XRI 2.5 minus the powerhead for $800 with the intent to build/rebuild it as well. The deck of the boat is just about off the hull, I have about 2' left to cut on the starboard side near the front corner of the cockpit. I'm already thinking of mods to do to the deck. I found some pics on Google where someone modified their deck to have the "bubble" like the newer Venoms. My boat never had a windshield installed So I'm probably going to go that route. I'm also leaning towards installing a floor and full interior so the whole family can ride in it. (Yes, this means adding core to the bottom as well.) I'll probably pop a mold from the seat I already have to make another bucket, then cut the mold in half to make a bench for the back with the same basic profile. None of the seatbacks will extend above the deck for a sleeker look. I plan to put in a floor between the two outer stringers so I can use space between the stringers and outer wall for storing lights, paddle, jackets, etc... I hope all is well with everyone and it's time for me to get itchy!!!

[JoshP1]

So this is my boat without the deck. There is a front "stringer" in the bow area which was tied into the hull and the deck rested on for "added stability". This was definitely not factory and looks to be regular marine plywood without being incased in any type of glass. I have been thinking about doing the same thing with coosa, but most of the way back to the dash in case I need to lay across the deck in a docking or trailering situation. I still have to finish cutting and grinding out the remainder of the factory stringers before I get to sanding the entire interior so I can start laying fiberglass. I also have a couple holes in the rear corners where I assume the trailer side guides had been rubbing when traveling. I still have a long way to go, but I have the bug again and not trying to lose it. I may need to put that little feller in a jar to keep him around for a while. I still have two other boats to play with on the water, so that won't be a problem. I'll be back at it tomorrow.

524915

[FlowMaxx]

That front stringer is absolutely factory on the comp. Mine has it. I had a long conversation with Howard on this. There's a great story behind it.

[JoshP1]

Maxx, do you know if they were supposed to be fully glassed in? Mine was only bedded in with (maybe) resin on the sides and edges. That's what made me think it wasn't factory. Like I said before, I am planning on putting in one to the front of where the foot rest would be on a non-competition hull would be for added structural support for the deck.

[FlowMaxx]

I believe its glassed all the way up on the hull side. Would be pretty hard to glass in the deck. There should be a reasonably large surface area all the way in the front. Its main purpose is probably not something you would expect it to be.

[JoshP1]

I believe its glassed all the way up on the hull side. Would be pretty hard to glass in the deck. There should be a reasonably large surface area all the way in the front. Its main purpose is probably not something you would expect it to be.

It most definitely was not glassed to the deck! It was glassed around the perimeter of the junction at the hull but with no more glass or resin anywhere on the board. I was able to pull it out by hand with no tools needed. The layers used to glass it to the hull had delaminated and only held together with about 2 inches at the outermost edges at the hull. Not sure if that makes sense. I started working on it again this morning, but had to stop. Getting old is for the birds after 20 years in the military and a LOT of broken bones from years of neglecting my body! LOL! Think I'll take the rest of the weekend off and get back at it on Wednesday when I'm off again. I did get the majority of the seat box cut out, but like I said, I'm hurting really bad! DO NOT break your back under any circumstances!!!

[LakeFever]

I believe its glassed all the way up on the hull side. Would be pretty hard to glass in the deck. There should be a reasonably large surface area all the way in the front. Its main purpose is probably not something you would expect it to be.

curious to read about the story. Got a link or can you explain?

[JoshP1]

I believe its glassed all the way up on the hull side. Would be pretty hard to glass in the deck. There should be a reasonably large surface area all the way in the front. Its main purpose is probably not something you would expect it to be.

I'm curious about the story too! Please enlighten us.

[FlowMaxx]

Not a short story, but I will try to create the setting and then give explanation:

Years ago, we had a boating group with a bunch of local friends that had Hydrostreams and would get together at mostly local lakes and have fun. That expanded and more and more boats joined. Then we got the opportunity of a lifetime to meet Howard Pipkorn and found that he actually wanted to join us! We waited in eager anticipation and really did not know what to expect, as our knowledge of him was limited.

Well, he showed up with a boat and a van full of goodies to give to us. This was certainly unexpected, but it was so cool that it is hard to describe. He brought Dick Kojtetin with him whom he referred to as his right hand and marketing guy. They had worked together a very long time at Hydrostream. They brought out boxes of old brochures and, after we went boating on the Mississippi for the day, spent the evening telling stories and sharing memories with all of us. They seemed to be as thrilled with us as we were to have their presence. This developed into a long relationship and Howard came to several more gatherings in subsequent years. He later brought his wife, Susan along and we would go to the beach and BBQ and have a great day together. He would tell stories, sign memorabilia and autographed many of our boats on the dash. After his passing a few years ago, Susan shared that he really enjoyed being with us and never really realized the significance of his work and the lasting impact it had on so many people. We explained to him that Hydrostreams are similar to a classic car. Hydrostreams are the quintessential Muscle Boat. It is certainly hard to disagree with that one.

Now back to the point of this story. I just needed proper context. Howard loved to tell stories. He was full of interesting facts and loved to tell a good story. He explained that there was a guy down in Alabama somewhere that had a Comp Vector and he was pretty much destroying everyone in all of the drag races. So, another guy wanted in on the action and told Howard to build him an extremely light Comp Vector so that he could be the new king of that racing circuit. So, Howard built him a very light Vector and the guy proceeded to rig and race it, but he was getting beat handily and was upset that he wasn't getting the results he wanted. He called to Howard and complained about the boat and expressed his disappointment with the hull. Howard thought about it and calmly asked the guy to attach 5 or 10 pounds of weight to the bow eye. The guy thought he was crazy. How could adding weight possibly help? Anyways, after some convincing, the guy followed Pip's directive and, to his surprise, the boat began to launch perfectly straight and dominate. Now, he was now he was the guy to beat. He shared his results with Howard and subsequent boats were built with that piece of plywood at the foremost part of the center keel. Guys were then able to affix weights to the frontmost part of the boat. Howard referred to this as "the moment of inertia." It's a phrase burned into my memory. He explained that the moment you hit the gas, the boat has a certain trajectory. You want that to be forward and not up. Light v-bottom boats have a tendency to be weight centered very far back. That 5-10 pounds in front is multiplied exponentially if it is brought back further and then becomes counterproductive because it is more weight. So simple, but yet so genius, such was the mind of Howard Pipkorn.

I share this story with the utmost respect of Howard and Susan Pipkorn. Given his generosity with us and his love for a great story, I can only assume he would be ok with me sharing this one in honor of his legacy and a great memory I have of him. May God rest his beautiful Soul. I look forward to seeing him again someday and to hear more great stories that have had such an impact on the lives of many of us.

[LakeFever]

Great story Flowmaxx, you write it well. Wish i could have met the man

[JoshP1]

That's an amazing story Maxx! Like LakeFever stated, I would have loved to have met Mr. Pipkorn! I believe I would have been a little too young to appreciate his stories at the time. Nowadays, I'm all about hotrods, hotboats, and hotbikes. I will definitely be putting that little piece of structure back in my boat even though I don't plan to really race at this point. Again, thanks for posting your story!

[JoshP1]

I'm back at it. The temp is in the 60s here so I'm cutting now and will be grinding/sanding later on. I have 2 more days off then work Wednesday and Thursday with a 3 day weekend next weekend too. Gotta make the most of it before false fall goes away. LOL!

[JoshP1]

Any advise for a half paper transom that the other half is rotten and wet/still holding on? This transom removal is really working me to the bones! The paper part is no big deal at all and is just about out. It's the other half that's giving me fits. I'm working at it with an oscillating saw and a prybar/nail puller combo tool. I cut a section of wood to be dismantled then chip it out before going through to the next layer. my hands are shaking and busted up pretty bad. I have already embraced the suck, just looking for a better way to attempt to make it a little easier.

[Deznuts3570]

Just ran across this thread. Great so far. Just to speed you up on a few things. First, theres ton of local knowledge down there in the Morgan City, Houma, DesAllemands area. Alot of those guys have or had some fast streams and some still do. In Harahan there was a place next to Cummins. I dont know if its still there or not. I bought sheets of Coosa from there years ago. Far as getting the transom out. I scored my Viper with a skilsaw and chipped it out. Set the depth and just went nuts. Never did finish my viper, still in the backyard. You want to get some knowledge on streams. Go to the Thanksgiving ride in Morgan City the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Also, I've been around this site for a few years, some very very knowledgeable guys have already commented, listen well! There's tons of ways to redo these boats, you're on the right track. Keep pushing, looking forward to seeing the updates!

[Deznuts3570]

One last thing, I cannot stress this enough. Start reading on the rebuilds on here and when your done, read more! Still to this day, i spend time reading on here and a couple of other sites. They have tons and hours upon hrs of great info on here! Chances are, if you need an asnwer its more than likely been asked

[JoshP1]

Just ran across this thread. Great so far. Just to speed you up on a few things. First, theres ton of local knowledge down there in the Morgan City, Houma, DesAllemands area. Alot of those guys have or had some fast streams and some still do. In Harahan there was a place next to Cummins. I dont know if its still there or not. I bought sheets of Coosa from there years ago. Far as getting the transom out. I scored my Viper with a skilsaw and chipped it out. Set the depth and just went nuts. Never did finish my viper, still in the backyard. You want to get some knowledge on streams. Go to the Thanksgiving ride in Morgan City the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Also, I've been around this site for a few years, some very very knowledgeable guys have already commented, listen well! There's tons of ways to redo these boats, you're on the right track. Keep pushing, looking forward to seeing the updates!

D, I'm thinking I took out too much material from my transom to use the circular saw method. I'll have to post some pictures tomorrow of the progress I made today. I used that on my Viper as well. Also, never finished mine. I ended up giving it away to make room for other stuff when I moved my family from Assumption to Ascension Parish. I wish I still had that boat. The more I read, the more I want to keep my Vector in as close as factory spec as possible. There's absolutely no way I can keep it stock, but it'll still be a race boat when I'm done. I considered converting it to run a full interior, but the wife says she thinks I need to keep it with just a single seat in the middle. I will be changing colors though. Blue is my favorite and I want a white interior with (possibly) some yellow or silver accents. I have/had another profile on here too. I lost access to that account from the move and started this one. I'm not sure that profile is still floating around or not. I had tons of information from other people posting on my old rebuild thread from the Viper. Hopefully, I don't have to worry about that with this profile.

[FlowMaxx]

You can always do an inline 2-seater. Then you can take a passenger and 1 extra seat doesn't add too much extra weight if you are out solo. Plus, it doesn't alter the configuration of the boat much. Weight balance on these boats is so critical. I wouldn't ever want to drive a side steer Vector without a passenger. Center steer with everything in the center is my preference.

[VkingMike]

Center steer and inline seats were some of the best mods I did on my build.

[JoshP1]

I thought about ripping out this transom last night after I posted. I have a shed full of tools at my disposal from years of being a millwright and playing around with woodworking at home. I just started using a 2" wood chisel to cut the wood off. Don't worry, all you woodworkers, the ones I'm using are from Harbor Freight. Plus the glass layers between the wood are less than 1/8" thick. I'd be surprised if they were even 1/16". Still pretty rough on my hands with cramping, but blows through the plywood fairly easily.

[JoshP1]

525208

[JoshP1]

525209

[JoshP1]

525210525211

The picture taken from the port side at about midship shows what's left of the transom right now. To the left of the picture on the transom is the outer skin and it gets thicker as you look to the right of the picture. The fiberglass looks really thick in the pictures because it's torn and cut in a filet. I really wish there was a way to make all the wood break like paper without burning the boat and thus, my whole house down!

The other picture is from the top down with me standing at the back of the transom and was just for reference. One day when I'm done with this thing or get discouraged, I'll be able to look back and see all of the progress I've made since I brought it home.

[rjdubiel]

Not a short story, but I will try to create the setting and then give explanation:

Years ago, we had a boating group with a bunch of local friends that had Hydrostreams and would get together at mostly local lakes and have fun. That expanded and more and more boats joined. Then we got the opportunity of a lifetime to meet Howard Pipkorn and found that he actually wanted to join us! We waited in eager anticipation and really did not know what to expect, as our knowledge of him was limited.

Well, he showed up with a boat and a van full of goodies to give to us. This was certainly unexpected, but it was so cool that it is hard to describe. He brought Dick Kojtetin with him whom he referred to as his right hand and marketing guy. They had worked together a very long time at Hydrostream. They brought out boxes of old brochures and, after we went boating on the Mississippi for the day, spent the evening telling stories and sharing memories with all of us. They seemed to be as thrilled with us as we were to have their presence. This developed into a long relationship and Howard came to several more gatherings in subsequent years. He later brought his wife, Susan along and we would go to the beach and BBQ and have a great day together. He would tell stories, sign memorabilia and autographed many of our boats on the dash. After his passing a few years ago, Susan shared that he really enjoyed being with us and never really realized the significance of his work and the lasting impact it had on so many people. We explained to him that Hydrostreams are similar to a classic car. Hydrostreams are the quintessential Muscle Boat. It is certainly hard to disagree with that one.

Now back to the point of this story. I just needed proper context. Howard loved to tell stories. He was full of interesting facts and loved to tell a good story. He explained that there was a guy down in Alabama somewhere that had a Comp Vector and he was pretty much destroying everyone in all of the drag races. So, another guy wanted in on the action and told Howard to build him an extremely light Comp Vector so that he could be the new king of that racing circuit. So, Howard built him a very light Vector and the guy proceeded to rig and race it, but he was getting beat handily and was upset that he wasn't getting the results he wanted. He called to Howard and complained about the boat and expressed his disappointment with the hull. Howard thought about it and calmly asked the guy to attach 5 or 10 pounds of weight to the bow eye. The guy thought he was crazy. How could adding weight possibly help? Anyways, after some convincing, the guy followed Pip's directive and, to his surprise, the boat began to launch perfectly straight and dominate. Now, he was now he was the guy to beat. He shared his results with Howard and subsequent boats were built with that piece of plywood at the foremost part of the center keel. Guys were then able to affix weights to the frontmost part of the boat. Howard referred to this as "the moment of inertia." It's a phrase burned into my memory. He explained that the moment you hit the gas, the boat has a certain trajectory. You want that to be forward and not up. Light v-bottom boats have a tendency to be weight centered very far back. That 5-10 pounds in front is multiplied exponentially if it is brought back further and then becomes counterproductive because it is more weight. So simple, but yet so genius, such was the mind of Howard Pipkorn.

I share this story with the utmost respect of Howard and Susan Pipkorn. Given his generosity with us and his love for a great story, I can only assume he would be ok with me sharing this one in honor of his legacy and a great memory I have of him. May God rest his beautiful Soul. I look forward to seeing him again someday and to hear more great stories that have had such an impact on the lives of many of us.

Oh my. What fun Howard had with all. I was not at the first one but the last one or two he came to I was fortunate enough to meet Howard. And he was fun. And to my surprise he would stay in touch with me every other month or two with a phone call out of no where. Usually trying to sucker me into moving a boat to MN for free at work! But thank you for that story Mark, was great to hear it again and relive in my mind hanging out with him. I just grabbed a picture or two of Howard and Susan in the boat. The best is the one where he was telling me what I was doing wrong driving my viper before he even got out of his boat! haha. He was great, a true nice guy. A guy that wanted to get the gallon of bondo from the auto store and fix our boats for us in the hotel parking lot! haha. Sorry to clutter this post. But had to share this as he is missed every day by all of us that have been fortunate enough to meet him.

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[VkingMike]

Cut this top section of fiberglass off and your life will get so much easier chipping downwards to remove that wood. You are going to have to wrap new glass back over the edge anyways.

525265

[XstreamVking]

16 grit disc on a 7'' grinder and about 2 hrs and it's gone.

[JoshP1]

Cut this top section of fiberglass off and your life will get so much easier chipping downwards to remove that wood. You are going to have to wrap new glass back over the edge anyways.

525265

That's the plan! I caught some kind of alcohol induced stomach bug on Tuesday, so I didn't do any work on it. I'm planning to get back at it this afternoon.

Xstream, I don't hav a 7" and have never seen anything less than 40grit flap wheel for a grinder. I'm about to buy stock in 4" flap disks to get at the inside of the hull. It's about to get really messy around my carport.

[XstreamVking]

Yeah, flap discs won't cut it, use some fiber backed aluminum oxide ones. They will work well. Even the 4'' discs come in 24 grit and will cut fast.

[LakeFever]

Cutzall disks also make quick work of wood. Useless on glass and will dull fast if you try.

[Deznuts3570]

Express composites and I believe Harbor Freight sell a wheel with diamond stones or rocks I believe that I know a few others have used. From what I've heard and read people love them to grind the boats out

[rjdubiel]

Express composites and I believe Harbor Freight sell a wheel with diamond stones or rocks I believe that I know a few others have used. From what I've heard and read people love them to grind the boats out

I tried to find it on Express Composites but don,t seem to be on their site anymore. I just used the flapper disks and find the 24/36 grit which should be ok. When doing your last grind, do it very light and quick with new disks and should be good to go. You can use these disks for a long time when removing material at the beginning, just remember to do another quick grind with fresh disk before you start laying up glass. The rpms on an angle grinder with a warn out disk doesn't leave a good finish for fresh glass. Seems to heat up and makes it too smooth, but a new disk with light pressure leaves some tooth for the new glass.

[Deznuts3570]

I found this just now. It reminds me of the old disc express composites used to sell that I've seen a few people use
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-coarse-carbide-grit-carving-disc-58126.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12126402660&campaignid=12126402660&utm_content=130468559450&adsetid=130468559450&product=58126&store=3147&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsp6pBhCfARIsAD3GZuYrdlqsWvUDOw-ijpKWcYSZRyglVt-_aKPjhqYynp4GzoXwdo6UXcQaAgWqEALw_wcB

[rjdubiel]

That looks like it, I agree. The one from Express Composites was like 90-100 bucks. This one will work but I bet it will not stay as sharp, but buy two or three and your good! I did just call Express, they don't have them anymore. The guy said they work great, just not many spend that money for a wheel to grind one project. I wish I would have bought one.

[LakeFever]

I used 24 grit disks on an air grinder with a fiber flex backer. Makes quick work and low buck

525341

[JoshP1]

I found this just now. It reminds me of the old disc express composites used to sell that I've seen a few people use
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-coarse-carbide-grit-carving-disc-58126.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12126402660&campaignid=12126402660&utm_content=130468559450&adsetid=130468559450&product=58126&store=3147&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsp6pBhCfARIsAD3GZuYrdlqsWvUDOw-ijpKWcYSZRyglVt-_aKPjhqYynp4GzoXwdo6UXcQaAgWqEALw_wcB

D, Imma need that fo sho!!!

[JoshP1]

I used 24 grit disks on an air grinder with a fiber flex backer. Makes quick work and low buck

525341

Lake, unfortunately, I don't believe I have the proper setup for my air compressor for one of those. I know for sure, I don't have enough hose. I have plenty of tank volume, but it doesn't regulate properly. It has a DRO on the "dash" for tank pressure and output pressure, But I don't think the output is accurate.

[JoshP1]

I tried to find it on Express Composites but don,t seem to be on their site anymore. I just used the flapper disks and find the 24/36 grit which should be ok. When doing your last grind, do it very light and quick with new disks and should be good to go. You can use these disks for a long time when removing material at the beginning, just remember to do another quick grind with fresh disk before you start laying up glass. The rpms on an angle grinder with a warn out disk doesn't leave a good finish for fresh glass. Seems to heat up and makes it too smooth, but a new disk with light pressure leaves some tooth for the new glass.

RJ, I'll keep that in mind. When I cleaned out the inside of my Viper, I used three flap wheel in total. If I remember, I think I used an old one to make everything uniform, but never thought about the surface needing tooth for a mechanical bond. We moved shortly after I got the majority sanded. I even sanded right through the hull outboard of the middle strake on the starboard side! I absolutely had no idea what I was doing at that time. I will definitely have to smooth everything out then do a rough pass before my layup on the Vector. I have a lot better grasp of using composites now, plus getting information y'all with a hell of a lot more knowledge than I have helps tremendously.

[JoshP1]

I picked up one of the 4" carving disks from Harbor Freight this morning and WOW! This thing eats wood. I wish I would have thought of this or someone had made the comment before I started the tear out of my transom, it would have saved my hands a lot. I can press a little and feather edges or turn it up on end and cut through the earth without hesitation from the wheel. It barely bogs my Dewalt 4-1/2" grinder. I kinda want to cut a tree down just to say it would! LOL! Back to making dust!

Oh, it does cut glass just fine. Be very careful around the outer skin.

[XstreamVking]

Be cautious with it. It can make a mess real fast.

[JoshP1]

Quick question. How are y'all clearing clogged grains on those carving wheels? They do not like wet wood at all. I have some cooked on the wheel and can't get it off/stop burning and it won't cut like it should.

[JoshP1]

525368

This is what's left on the transom and what's been ripped/ground off so far. Taking a break because I'm sweating like a stuck pig.

[Deznuts3570]

Keep on truckin, it's coming along good!

[tnelsmn]

These don't clog up and dull nearly as much as the carving disk. And you can actually sharpen it. It looks intimidating but isn't as bad as you'd think. I used one to remove a lot of wood out of my hull.
https://a.co/d/hlVUmnG

[JoshP1]

Well, all of the wood is out except for a very thin layer on parts of the transom. I started getting into grinding the stringers out, but noticed my neighbors where outside with their baby so I stopped. He's about 4-5 months old and I didn't figure he wanted to hear my loud tool or breathe in this nasty crap! Back to work today!

[JoshP1]

Here is what I'm seeing. I just stopped grinding the outboard starboard stringer from the transom to the seat box. There is a layer of gel, a layer of chop, a layer of what appears to be thickened epoxy, then the innermost layer of glass of the outer hull skin. My question is for the factory comp guys. Are all comps laid up like this with thickened epoxy in place of actual core? I almost reminds me of a foam core, but there is no grid pattern in it at all. The wood carving disk for my 4" grinder eats it quicker than wood. I don't know what it is really, I do know it needs to come out in the areas of my stringers so I ca do a good, clean layup. The surface is definitely not flat in any way unless you look from about 100' away. If y'all can't understand what I'm trying to ask, please let me know and I'll do my best to elaborate. Next post will be pics of it.

[JoshP1]

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[JoshP1]

The layer in question can be cut/scored with a small hooked pick with no problem. I'm pretty sure I could cut it with a utility knife too.

[LakeFever]

My vking had a pink foam core strip on the under side of the deck. Looks similar. Of course maybe someone else has redone it before and used some foam

[JoshP1]

Just a wild thought. From what I hear, the Vector and Viking/Vking bottoms are the same except for the pad an lift strikes. Has anyone tried cutting out the inner lift strikes on a Vector with a flat pad? Am I out of my mind or does this make since? Thought process behind it is this. The Vectors run like somebody threw a bobcat in a sack then tied it to the tail of a horse. The Viking/Vkings run like riding a couch. Can I, essentially, have a 17' Viking/Vking by doing this? I already plan on flattening the pad on my Vector. Maybe I'm just losing my mind after years of tactical self induced abuse.

[LakeFever]

Its totally doable although a heaping ton of work to do nicely. Vectors are better drag hulls and vkings are easier to drive speed hulls, generally speaking. Set up is everything. Some awfully fast vectors out there. Owners who love them. That said its your boat and your build do what you feel is best.

[Deznuts3570]

If I remember right the hull was reshaped on the vking when they built it. Its different even though it looks similiar

[JoshP1]

D,

Earlier in this thread I spoke about a bubble in the deck to resemble the newer Venom in place of the windshield. From what I can see in your avatar and signature pics, I probably found some pics of your build on Google. I remember seeing the boat in a YouTube video for the Hydrostream Hellions and fell in love with the deck bubble instead of a windshield. I have a pretty long way to go before I start modifying the deck of my boat, just thought I'd through it out there.

[Deznuts3570]

That's it for sure. There's a thread on here that showed some pics of it.

[XstreamVking]

On the strip of odd material, in the 80's they were experimenting with a spray able type of soft durometer core. I used it in one of my early 80's flats boats bullds and it was not very impressive. This may be some of that material. The idea was that as the fiberglass flexed from impacts it would act as a shock absorber since it was not hard.

[JoshP1]

D, here's the pics I got off Google.526231526232526232526233

[Deznuts3570]

That's it buddy. A bunch of good people helped along the way and I'll be forever grateful for it. It's been a great learning curve and I can honestly say, I met a dude that became a great friend off this site. Still today, it all happened here! Tons of great knowledge and tons of great people. Once your done man, it becomes a blast!

[JoshP1]

X, if that's it, it looks like my whole bottom running surfaces have it. It sands really easy so I'm thinking of leaving it and laying up over it. I'll still sand everything like I should to get a mechanical and chemical bond with the glass.

[XstreamVking]

I would do an adhesion test. Clean and prep, then lay up a small square on the surface. Let it cure and try to remove it. The material may be good, or may cause de-lamination and you will have to remove it.

[LakeFever]

Cant beat starting fresh. Remove the guesses and unknowns. Thats how i see it

[JoshP1]

Lake and X, after more thought, I've decided to remove all of it. I can't see doing all this work and leaving something I'm not set on in the boat. It's just not worth it to me.

[JoshP1]

I'm not dead yet! We had some financial issues and I had to take a break from working on my boat. I had to make all the overtime I could get, leaving me with no time to work on it. I had a line on a "FF" 200 for CHEAP, but my buddy sold it before I could get home. Back to the grind this weekend I guess. I have to hang up some plastic sheeting around the carport so the dust doesn't keep going everywhere. The plan is to use the two box fans I have with one blowing in and the other blowing out after pulling the inside air through a large A/C filter. Not sure it'll work out like I plan, but it's worth a shot. I'm not ready to paint or gelcoat, I'm not even finished prepping the inside to lay new glass yet.

[LakeFever]

That plastic is a good idea. My shop turned into a hot mess when I started grinding away on the hull without it. Once it was up with a good respirator and DuPont disposable coveralls it was all good. DuPont the best I tried em all even the 3m ones were crap. The DuPont ones last and last. Also latex rubber gloves for resin not nitrile last a lot longer

[JoshP1]

Lake, I'm still working under my carport with no walls on three sides and the exterior wall of my house on the third. Where did you get the DuPont suits from? I've been buying the XXL suits from Harbor Freight and either have 1 use or weeks of use out of them. I like them because they have feet and a hood. I also bought a full-face respirator because I couldn't keep the dust out of my eyes, even with goggles.

[LakeFever]

I bought em off ama zone. I hear ya on the full face I got one of those versaflo papr full face powered filtration deals. I already had an adflo for welding so I bought the versaflo mask and an adapter for the hose and that worked great. I don’t think you can do this work without a full face respirator unless you enjoy face itch