Bluebird K7

[Scream And Fly]

I'm sure most of you know about the Bluebird K7, which was the custom-built boat that Donald Campbell used and died in the attempt wto try to capture the 300MPH speed record. The boat wreck was recovered and restored from the bottom of the lake in the early 2000s, and up until last year, there were plans to run the boat again at very high speeds, and it had been run since restoration, however there is a dispute over ownership of the boat now so it probably won't run ever again.

So what are your thoughts on the design of this boat? For a 1955 design, it's ahead of its time in many ways. There is an excellent documentary about this, which I will post below.

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https://youtu.be/E2oVSlfmrvI

The tragic accident

https://youtu.be/zE2rxSQ5_tg

[mach351]

I have a book “Donald Campbell and the Final Record Attempt” that is incredible…..very technical. The whole story of him and his speed pursuit is amazing. The guy who is in possession of the boat, Bill, has done an amazing job rebuilding the boat. It currently sits in his shop in England. The dispute is between him and a museum that helped fund the recovery. They want to put it in the museum….he wants to continue to run the boat on exhibition runs. Not shooting for the record, but run it perhaps yearly as a homage to Sir Campbell. I’m on Bills side….have been since he was the one who dove and brought the boat up, and also recovered Donald Campbells body so he could have a proper burial. K7 is an English national treasure.

[mach351]

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[Scream And Fly]

I remember watching a documentary about this a very long time ago. It would really be interesting to compare the Bluebird to Ken Warby's record-setting boat. Also, I'm curious how well the K7's hull design measures up against current technology. Did Campbell simply design a hull according to how he envisioned it should be, or were more scientific methods used? I actually don't know much about this, but it's fascinating. That blowover is frightening, especially due to the fact that you can hear Campbell as it's happening. Very sad.

[WaterZebra]

I remember watching a documentary about this a very long time ago. It would really be interesting to compare the Bluebird to Ken Warby's record-setting boat. Also, I'm curious how well the K7's hull design measures up against current technology. Did Campbell simply design a hull according to how he envisioned it should be, or were more scientific methods used? I actually don't know much about this, but it's fascinating. That blowover is frightening, especially due to the fact that you can hear Campbell as it's happening. Very sad.

Campbell and Warby's hull configurations were pretty different. Warby used an aft stabilizer which kept the 3 point "planted" on the water where Campbell did not. All Warby had to do was "power thru" to get the speed he needed. The K7 never really gave a hint before lifting off. Having blown over myself I can tell you the ride always is smoothest and fastest right before going skyward.

[David]

In the Wikipedia article about the Bluebird it says the design speed was 250 mph. Could be true. The boat blew over above that speed. A design speed implies some calculations went into the hull

[WaterZebra]

In the Wikipedia article about the Bluebird it says the design speed was 250 mph. Could be true. The boat blew over above that speed. A design speed implies some calculations went into the hull

Ken Warby - Conventional 3 point (aka Sanger drag hydro on steroids)
Lee Taylor - Reverse 3 point with triangular sponsons and nose trip plate
Donald Campbell - Conventional 3 point with a "picklefork" concept.

[mach351]

Also interesting, especially for us Florida guys, is Craig Afrons fatal attempt at the record in 1989 on Lake Jackson in Sebring. He was at about 375mph when the boat came apart.

[Jimboat]

Don Campbell is a true legend. The bluebird restoration project is such a great tribute.

[CUDA]

https://youtu.be/89ZVBfdVQwg



https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6as1wu

[WaterZebra]

Also interesting, especially for us Florida guys, is Craig Afrons fatal attempt at the record in 1989 on Lake Jackson in Sebring. He was at about 375mph when the boat came apart.

Was this the boat that transitioned to wheels making contact with the water? Lee Taylor's tragedy was caused by Lake Tahoe water conditions being too rough and promotor pressure to make Lee Taylor make the run anyway. Taylor's propulsion was not a jet engine either. it was a light-it-n-go rocket.

[rgsauger]

To me, there’s absolutely a thrilling setting records and it’s easy to say “he died doing something that he loved“. There’s also a sadness to that. Sadness for those left behind if not for the man in the driver’s seat. There’s also a big respect though for the people that put it on the line. I am not one of those. I will hang it out and push the edge a little bit but I will never be one to break the records. And I know that too.

[Lake X Kid]

I have a book “Donald Campbell and the Final Record Attempt” that is incredible…..very technical. The whole story of him and his speed pursuit is amazing. The guy who is in possession of the boat, Bill, has done an amazing job rebuilding the boat. It currently sits in his shop in England. The dispute is between him and a museum that helped fund the recovery. They want to put it in the museum….he wants to continue to run the boat on exhibition runs. Not shooting for the record, but run it perhaps yearly as a homage to Sir Campbell. I’m on Bills side….have been since he was the one who dove and brought the boat up, and also recovered Donald Campbells body so he could have a proper burial. K7 is an English national treasure.

I can envision where both sides get their wish. Decades ago I went to an air museum in the Palm Springs area, and they had a pilot who would take out a museum historical-display plane, and do a live flight for us museum visitors.

Likewise, the boat museum could let Bill (or designated pilot) do promotional museum and exhibition runs honoring Sir Campbell.

[Lake X Kid]

Was this the boat that transitioned to wheels making contact with the water? Lee Taylor's tragedy was caused by Lake Tahoe water conditions being too rough and promotor pressure to make Lee Taylor make the run anyway. Taylor's propulsion was not a jet engine either. it was a light-it-n-go rocket.

I think Lee's record attempt crash, also, was contributed to the boat's design. The boat had the sponsons in the aft section of the boat. Whereas Al Warby's record boat, and the 200+ mph Unlimited race boats, both have the traditional hydorplane sponsons in the boat's bow for stability. Just like the Bluebird.

When Lee's boat starts rocking side to side (like chine walking) that needle nose spears into the water — game over. Less bow stability then the other aforementioned boats.


https://youtu.be/UIk-tQDIZqg

[mr fun]

a man died ,let it be

[Mark Poole ModVP]

The Bluebird was the earliest successful outrigger style hydroplane. He evidently understood that this design would be well suited to the huge power output of the jet engine. The biggest benefit of the outrigger hydro is that it does not trap air under the entire front of the hull like a conventional three point hydro. There have been attempts to use this design in unlimited hydro racing, but even with turbine engines, a prop driven U hydro does not have the power to weight ratio to make it work properly.

I have no doubt that Don Pinckert, the man who built the first RC outrigger hydroplane, was inspired by the Bluebird. The design is the ultimate RC speed boat because the power to weight (and size) ratio is off the chart.

But every design has a limit and Campbell pushed Bluebird past it on that day.

As for Lee Taylor, if you go to YouTube and watch the vids of Hal Needham's Budweiser rocket car driven by Stan Barrett, you see where Taylor got the idea to build his radical boat. His boat used a hydrogen peroxide rocket engine the same as the rocket car. His idea was to have a boat with the same 'footprint' of that tricycle rocket car. But the angle of all three ride surfaces had far too much AOA which was the main contributing factor of why the boat flipped over like it did. The water conditions on Tahoe that day did not help either.

[kelvin523]

... The biggest benefit of the outrigger hydro is that it does not trap air under the entire front of the hull like a conventional three point hydro...

Thank you, I missed this part until i looked closer. Academic question; from what i gather the K7 did not have a propeller and is in essence a full in-ground effect design with six pressure ridges, three on each side? Thanks again

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5263550

[mach351]

None of the record attempt boats we are talking about are propeller driven. Thrust only.

[Instigator]

20 yrs ago I was in Ken Warbys basement/bar and among videos we watched was the one of of Arfons attempt.

Ken thought he ran out of fuel.
This got my attention.
He also thought there was possible, personal issues at play that he didn’t go into.

As stated though, these boats are propelled by thrust which I’ll be the first to admit I know nothing of.

Propeller driven, has effect on lift.

Thrust driven, once flying, they are 100% aerodynamic controlled/effected w/angle of thrust being the limiting/controlling factor.

On Arfons, I clearly remember his design.
It was a stretched out Top Fuel Hydro design. Like, 10’ longer.

I remember seeing Arfons pre-attempt press on it and saying TFH was already running 230.
And I was screaming at the TV screen saying, “yeah for the last 100’ of their pass and 3 drivers die every yr trying”, and your going to go 100 mph faster?

I gave him 0% chance of succeeding.

Kens take was, under power/thrust, that thrust angle keeps the bow down.
Run out of fuel/thrust, aerodynamic lift stays the same, mechanical thrust/angle goes to zero and…..

These guys are the men of men.

Like the first guys to challenge the world is flat.
OK, but how do we know?

I remember Warby bitching about the APBA trying to institute safety rules for their future record attempt and laughing at them.

No one, I mean no one, knows ANYTHING about going 300 mph in a boat!

Well, one guy does.
But the man tells him the rules they’re going to instate?

[Jimboat]

20 yrs ago I was in Ken Warbys basement/bar and among videos we watched was the one of of Arfons attempt. Kens take was, under power/thrust, that thrust angle keeps the bow down. Run out of fuel/thrust, aerodynamic lift stays the same, mechanical thrust/angle goes to zero and…..
The dynamic balance of these hulls is ever changing, with changes in aero lift/drag, thrust, hydrodynamic lift/drag, etc. The many force contributors to the dynamic balance all change quickly, particularly as velocity changes quickly too. Propulsion force from propeller vs jet engine is definitely quite different in the respective contribution to dynamic balance. it's difficult to maintain the changes needed to keep the boat in dynamic balance, and once it's just slightly off, the changes come increasingly faster. it's tough to stay on top of, with some designs.

[kelvin523]

Real-time pressure differential telemetry is a fantastic opportunity; these are in ground effect craft imo\. The plywood, 60$ jet engine and > 300mph is nothing short of genius, passion and fortitude. I'm not sure I would have enough courage to even start it up; let alone push the throttle to the wall. What these folks accomplished is legendary.

[Lake X Kid]

The Bluebird was the earliest successful outrigger style hydroplane.
He evidently understood that this design would be well suited to the huge power output of the jet engine. The biggest benefit of the outrigger hydro is that it does not trap air under the entire front of the hull like a conventional three point hydro. There have been attempts to use this design in unlimited hydro racing, but even with turbine engines, a prop driven U hydro does not have the power to weight ratio to make it work properly.



Top Fuel Drag Boats have been using outriggers (safely with stability) in the bow for years. Their prop driven, but surely the aerodynamics are in play, similar to the record attempt boats like Bluebird and Lee Taylor's boat.




https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b0/69/6f/b0696f92b36e12b376e9909ca37f83ea.jpg

https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/problem-child-top-fuel-dragster-boat-is-262-mph-insanity-video_7.jpg

[Lake X Kid]

https://youtu.be/ILoklRWkSKc

[Lake X Kid]

Outriggers in the bow saved his bacon.

If the Outriggers were in the back, then surely his needle nose front would have dug into the water, and pitched the boat out of control.



https://youtu.be/78usaFXEZbk

[techteam]

Campbell and Warby's hull configurations were pretty different. Warby used an aft stabilizer which kept the 3 point "planted" on the water where Campbell did not. All Warby had to do was "power thru" to get the speed he needed. The K7 never really gave a hint before lifting off. Having blown over myself I can tell you the ride always is smoothest and fastest right before going skyward.

I don't agree, if you watch the video closely you can clearly see the sponsons lifting well before she actually goes. Now they think they know why it blew over and are carrying out some tests to prove their theory. I think they will announce it next year sometime.

[Instigator]

As a friend/fan of Warbys, he is a bad ass.

For proof, watch the documentary about his record attempt.

They were struggling to get through the 280/290’s and couldn’t figure out why.
They knew they had the hull and the power but couldn’t get there.

He had a professor (I think) on his crew who was running calculations on their set up.
He determined the rudder was too deep and causing to much drag.

Said if the removed 4” it equaled a reduction of x thousand lbs of drag.

Ken decided 6” would be better!

They had a cutting torch on site but no goggles.

Ken wouldn’t let his crew do it because of the risk to their vision so he did it.

While cutting the bottom of the rudder off, he kept one eye covered.
When asked why he covered one eye he said, in case it blinded him he would still have one good eye so he could still drive!

It worked and they went 317!

To remind myself of how important that record is, I am reminded that every attempt since then has ended up killing that person!



Real-time pressure differential telemetry is a fantastic opportunity; these are in ground effect craft imo\. The plywood, 60$ jet engine and > 300mph is nothing short of genius, passion and fortitude. I'm not sure I would have enough courage to even start it up; let alone push the throttle to the wall. What these folks accomplished is legendary.

[Instigator]

Just found these on my phone, from 20 yrs ago!

[mach351]

The water speed record is the most dangerous of all speed records. I read that since 1900, it has had an 85% mortality rate

[kelvin523]

Really great thread; worthy of creating an "In-Effect" forum imo\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPdEiI_foI

[Brad Zastrow]

85% chance of dying. Who on earth would even think about attempting a speed run with those odds?
Top fuel drag boat record is around 265 mph. But they get to that speed in a few seconds and shut it down. I think the long runs and the little higher speed is the line being crossed.

[kelvin523]

Great quick movie with Anthony; melancholy w/sincere respect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9PouwZkbnM

The Caspian sea monster was cool at +300/mph as well; work like https://thrustwsh.com/ brings us to ground effect under to +/- 20% quickly.