1975 Vector pad design

[PCS9136]

Hello All,
I have started rebuilding a 1975 Vector and after looking at several other rebuild posts I have noticed that the pad on this boat is different than others I have seen. I have been told that this boat was uniquely built while still in the mold, but I am curious what impact the changes may have on handling.
The pad on this boat has a convex shape. Since Vectors can be tricky to drive with a flat pad does anyone have any thoughts on how a convex pad may handle?
A few other differences on this boat seem to be in the area where the deck meets the transom. There does not appear to have been any provisions for a splash well and the coring used is 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch thick.
Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated.
Should I leave the pad shaped as is, or try to change it?

[David - WI]

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508995

[LakeFever]

Wonder if thats more of a ski boat than a speed boat. I cant think of any other reason to add a running surface like that

[transomstand]

It would be physically impossible to do that to that hull while still in the mold. Very honestly, I would find another Vector to rebuild. To put a year of work into that and find out you can't drive it would be a tragedy. The more I look at it, I don't even think it's a Hydrostream. Probably some sort of splash copy.

[LakeFever]

I wondered if it was a splash too. Notice the transom looks like it was layed up with those angled sides too. Weird one

[PCS9136]

The boat has a Hydrostream VIN tag on the passenger side dash and serial number molded into the right rear portion of the hull.
I actually bought the boat about 25 years ago with plans to rebuild it and possibly race it out on the Chain of lakes in IL. But then my Wife and I had kids, and the boat was put on hold. Now that the kids are done with college, I pulled it out of the barn and decided to start working on it.
But I agree my fear is putting a lot of work and money into a boat that would be impossible to drive at speeds over 50 MPH
Plus, I guess the 25 years older me asks not only is it fast, but also is it safe :)

[transomstand]

Pete DeClare, a former Hydrostream employee did something similar with a Viper. He cut out the pad between the strakes and grafted a hull section from a Vampire to it. He never shared a lot on how the project did after completion, but only said it rode better. He sold it about a year later.

Would love to find out how your Vector came to be like that. It's very heavily modified with the motor well removal and 5 layers of plywood in the transom, along with a similar hull graft. Somebody did a ton of work. A shame it can't be tested in it's current condition. Maybe you got a 125 mph boat there and we don't know it:D

[PCS9136]

When I picked the boat up I stopped by Baker Marine and talked to Ron and Jeff. Ron Baker had worked at Hydrostream when the boat was made. He said someone had put a lot of work into it but it wasn't him, and he did not know much more on the history of it. I was thinking I would see if I can get it back in shape and give it a try.
It would be nice to know the history of it.

[transomstand]

When I picked the boat up I stopped by Baker Marine and talked to Ron and Jeff. Ron Baker had worked at Hydrostream when the boat was made. He said someone had put a lot of work into it but it wasn't him, and he did not know much more on the history of it. I was thinking I would see if I can get it back in shape and give it a try.
It would be nice to know the history of it.

Did he say the work was done at the plant? If so, there's a couple people I can ask.

[PCS9136]

Yeah, Ron thought it was done at the plant and mentioned someone's name, but I can't recall who he said.
If you could help find some history on the boat that would be great.
You can't help but wonder about a boat's past as your working on sanding and sanding and sanding. :)

[LakeFever]

Seeing as its not a splash and you know its history i say give er on the resto it may just be awesome! Im not really a fan of the vector pad its too jittery and lots of porpoise because i mostly cruise so its not the hull for me. Your Vectors pad looks interesting though, This is the pad design of an activator which looks very similar in design. Activators are sweet hulls


508999

[transomstand]

Just asked Tiger and he never heard of it, I'm gonna see if I can get a hold of Pete

[PCS9136]

One area that Ron was looking at was the transition from the hull to the deck. He was wondering if the deck was not a Vector deck and had been modified to fit.
I will attach an image to see if it shows.

[PCS9136]

Here is an image of where the deck meets the hull at the transom

[transomstand]

The rail installation does look factory. Not to say it couldn't have been duplicated at a later time but most don't go to the trouble.

[David - WI]

This whole "junction" seems kinda odd... or "different" anyway?

509008

[transomstand]

All of it looks weird. Pad (obviously), transom, strakes, the entire trailing edge of the hull. That's why I thought it might a splash. But it's got an HSP hull ID.

[scott reierson]

Wow, I've seen plenty, but not like that. Lots of work there.

Like Transomstand said above. He's trying to save you a ton of restoration time and money only to get a broken heart. Find out all you can first.

Might be a little better in the rough with more stern weight to make it ride more on the first set of lift strakes? Perhaps a little round pad/rocker experiment to move CG further bacK to reduce porpise? Looks like a device base or pitot tube base might have been screwed in the notch on the right.

Or just put a motor with solid mounts a small setback adjustable jackplate on it and surpise us!

If it lays down a Laser straight no drama one handed 95mph pass with no bad porpise habits or extra weight for one person driving you will be getting a lot of calls. I will be envious. Good luck on your project.

[PCS9136]

Thanks for all of the advice and insight, I really appreciate it.
I feel a little better after hearing that Activator has a similar design. That at least gives me a little more hope it will work out.

One other question I have on a slightly different topic is steering.
I am still a long way from that yet, but I am curious what others are using or would recommend?
My Sleekcraft has cable steering, the two turns lock to lock is nice but it is a fight with torque from the prop.
Hydraulic would be nice but I am guessing I would not want something that requires too much input to keep up (5 or more turns lock to lock sounds like a lot).

Any suggestions on a nice balance between leverage and responsiveness to stay on a pad?

[transomstand]

I've run opposed Ride Guide for 47 years, never tried hydraulic, the lack of feel concerns me. Probably get a visit from the hydraulic cheerleaders telling us how they can feel it just like cable. Sorry, I'm not buying, and when I get to be too much of a wimp to drive it I'll quit. Setup makes a HUGE difference in torque steer. When you get it right there almost isn't any.

[PCS9136]

Hi again,

I made a cradle for the bottom out of 2 x 4s since I had quite a few in the basement. It did not come out as nice as some of the others I have seen on some of the other posts, but I think it will do. After setting the cradle on the trailer and the boat on the cradle I started working on the floor.
I think the core was about 1/4 inch thick based on gap between the floor and the bottom.
I was able to use a shop-vac to get most of it up and then started sanding to get the last of it out.
As I was sanding, I noticed it looks like the strakes have some sort of filler that can be seen from inside the boat.

Is this normal?
Or have I sanded too far into the hull?

I didn't notice this in other images that have been posted.

[PCS9136]

The white lines in the image are what appear to be the filler in the strakes.
Thanks again fir all the help
Phil

[transomstand]

Yes the strakes are filled in. It was done to make it easier to lay the balsa in a flat sheet.

[PCS9136]

Great thanks.
Will vinyl ester resin bond to this material ok, or should I use something different

[LakeFever]

I would definitely use vinylester its considerably better for bonding to old glass and its 100% water proof. Not much more cost either. No brainer to me

as for the cradle that looks good to me. What i noticed is you want to be cautious with twist and bowing. If your leaving the cap on its much more stable just be sure the pad doesnt droop before you kay new core in. Even a slight dip will make for a lot more faring afterwards. Post pics as you go i love following build threads

[transomstand]

Poly, vinyl, or epoxy is fine. Main thing is to grind it out completely, get all the old balsa out. You want it all gray, no tan at all, and the more you can dry it the better.

[PCS9136]

Thanks for the advice. I did flip and reinstall the bow support from the trailer to help provide a little extra support for the front of the hull.
But maybe I can try to add a little more support up front just to be sure.
I was going to try to replace the floor up to the fuel tank support with the cap still on and then remove it for that last portion.
I was also thinking of adding some thin piece of 1/4 in ply with a few tabs of glass to help support the sides when the cap comes off and then remove them once the cap is put back on.
Will that help keep things aligned or is it not really needed?

Also, regarding vinyl ester, are there any particular places you would recommend ordering it from?
I have seen a few places that carry it, and prices vary quite a lot.
I was wondering if some of the cheaper resin I see is getting old and will have a shorter shelf life after it arrives.

Thanks again for all the help
Phil

509572

[transomstand]

I use Merton's fiberglass in Mass. But shipping to the midwest may negate any cost savings on the product.

[PCS9136]

I was working on removing some of the filler in the strakes to see just how thick it was, and I am not sure if the pictures will show but it is only a few mm between white, black, red and daylight from the other side. Any suggestions on what to use? A flapper disk works good for removing material quickly but is a little too aggressive when you're getting close. An orbital sander seems too slow. I was thinking of getting a small / thin handheld belt sander to try.
Thanks again for all the help

[rjdubiel]

go at it with the flapper on the angle grinder. Light light touch gets ya good. I tired the belt sander just to be disappointed. Grinder basically on everything is how I did it. Then glass down to make a good base for the balsa and to put back what you took out. On the areas you went through put some extra there as you will have to fix from the outside anyway and will grind that as well.

And Express Composites in Minneapolis can get you everything you need.
https://www.expresscomposites.com/

[LakeFever]

I use a flat disk air grinder but it makes a huge mess of itch. I also use a 1/2” electric cheapo belt sander that works great and in the super tight places i use a vibe tool with triangle sanding pads. When you burn through take parchment paper to the outside and tape it over the hole/s. Then lay the glass and it makes for much easier work faring the exterior

[rgsauger]

And if you have a lot to remove, get the knotted wire brush for the four and a half inch grinder and it will make very quick work of moving a lot of material but is definitely not for the finish work. I found that putting a box fan in the boat with me blowing all the crap and dust away from me and outside helped a lot.

[PCS9136]

I have been using a large pedestal fan from harbor freight but a box fan in the boat is a good idea to help get some dust out of the boat while sanding. I have been making some progress but the last three feet or so will be a little more difficult. Instead of having balsa core in the rear portion it is solid resign and glass. The stringers were imbedded down in the glass. I am not sure just how far down I should take this part down. I figure I need to at least go down to below where the stringers were, but any suggestions would be appreciated. I also learned that mechanics gloves don't offer any protection on the top side of your fingers when a flap disc touches them. After losing a little blood I got some heavy leather gloves to use.
Thanks again for all the suggestions and advise so far.
I really appreciate the help.


510672


510671

[transomstand]

Somebody had at least a little knowledge. That area of all glass is the highest stress area in the hull. A little more beef there doesn't hurt at all, but they didn't need to make that mess. I'd just try and get as close to level with the rest of the hull as possible when removing it.

[PCS9136]

I thought I would give an update on where I am at so far. The transom came out pretty easy, it was being held together with aluminum plates on each side. Once the plates came off the rest was pretty rotten and came out without too much trouble. Though the plate on the back side of the transom ended up taking the glass off the back as well.
I ended up with a partial boxed section where the transom was, so I decided to clean that up to secure the new transom. There were some voids in the glass, so I used a small belt sander and Dremel tool to remove any loose material. I then filled that in with thickened resin and smoothed it out with resin and micro balloons. After that I added a layer of CSM and 1708. So that should be ready for the new transom now.
I would like to get some thoughts on the new transom.
The original transom was lowered in the center portion, I am guessing this was done to lower the engine to match the new pad design, however I would think the water displaced by the lower pad may not provide much additional floatation, and if a V6 is on the transom this lower portion may be an issue. I plan to use a jack plate with a small amount of set-back so I may be able to take the new transom straight across without this lower portion.
Any thoughts on how low the back of a Vector will sit with a 2.5 Merc or OMC looper?

[transomstand]

Transom height on a stock Vector is 23". Everybody jacks em up well above that with a 20" motor so going straight across should be fine. None of these boats have much freeboard at the back when at rest so any height you add should be beneficial.

[PCS9136]

Thanks for the info. I measured the transom height and going straight across should put me pretty close to 23 inches, so I am not real sure why it was cut down originally. But I agree added freeboard would be beneficial. If all goes well, I am hoping to start cutting some Coosa next week.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Phil

[PCS9136]

I thought I would provide an update on progress. It is not moving nearly as quickly as some other's but I am making some progress.
After getting down to clean glass it was time to start reconstruction. I laid down a layer of 1808 and CSM on the entire bottom.
I used Divinycell core in areas that will bellow the floor. The core was covered with another layer of 1808 and CSM.
The transom was made from 2 pieces of 1 inch Coosa with a layer of CSM in between. 1 inch Coosa was also used for the knees and stringers.
The floor was made from 1/2 Coosa. The floor is about 10 feet long so I needed to join an additional 2 feet to the floor.
I added a layer of 1808 to the bottom of the floor to help get some additional stiffness. I also cut several round holes in the floor so I could clean out the drain backs underneath. The floor was put down in thickened resign and tabbed into place with 6 inch tabbing.
After that I put down balsa core and covered the balsa and floor in 1808 and CSM.
Now I am working on getting all the wood out of the cap so that can be redone and fill all the holes that were cut in it.
Maybe it will be ready by next summer. :)

One question I have, when applying new gel coat will the gel coat hide the hull numbers, or will they still show through?
Thanks again for the help here and in all the other posts. Lots of good info in this forum.

[XstreamVking]

Doing nice work on it. I like your ideas! I would tape off the HIN numbers and not risk filling them in with gell, filler or paint. Some water cops can be very picky about the HIN being clear and readable.

[rock]

Nice project and your work looks good. You will end up with something to be proud of for sure.

Rock

[scott reierson]

Cool! Looks great. Thanks for posting the pictures. Love the sand bags and JD floor weights.

[LakeFever]

Looks great! Very nice material selection and placement that thing will be solid for sure. How many layers of 1708 did you lay on the transom?

[VkingMike]

I love seeing the different layups and designs people do. With glass, the possibilities are only limited by imagination.

[PCS9136]

For layup on the transom I used 1 layer of CSM to fill pores in the Coosa and blend into the hull. Then I put on two layers of 1708 with the second layer covering more of the hull then the first. Then I tabbed in the knees with 6 inch tabbing.
After that I covered the knees and transom with one more layer of 1708 extending out past the first two layers on the hull,
So in all there is 1 layer of CSM and three layers of 1708 on the transom.

The Coosa can be pretty porous. Some areas were pretty bad, but I did not use those areas on the transom.

[XstreamVking]

The knees in the center always make fuel tank placement difficult. But, I guess you have a plan for that?

[VkingMike]

The knees in the center always make fuel tank placement difficult. But, I guess you have a plan for that? This is a fact. Forced me to use a smaller tank and move it forward quite a bit to clear them.

[XstreamVking]

This was my solution. I did add a horizontal beam between the engine mounting bolts for more strength. Don't think I needed it.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd200/snookdude87/Hydrostream/P1010181.jpg
Braces and platforms glassed in

[XstreamVking]

The battery and oil tank platforms help to make it real easy to mount stuff. 28 gal tank in center right against the transom. Built in 08, ain't failed yet...

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd200/snookdude87/Hydrostream/P1010172.jpg
knee brace and battery platform

[PCS9136]

For the fuel tanks I was thinking of taking advantage of the lower floor on early Vectors.
I am planning to have a tank 6 to 8 inches tall like in the image. This will allow the tank to run under the rear seat support.
My wife said she was not crazy about sitting on top of a fuel tank but I assured her if the tank blows it won't matter if she is sitting on it or just a few inches in front of it. LOL

My plan is to use two fuel tanks, 18 gal in the rear and 12 gal under the front seat support. I have seen several videos and pics of guys with extra fuel cans in the boat. I am hoping to avoid that if possible. I am still thinking through just how I will plumb the tanks. If I have the front tank feeding to the rear with a pump, of have a selector valve so the engine can pull from the front or rear as needed. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I found a site that makes tanks but I don't think they add baffles. I am thinking if I am going with a custom tanks it may be worth having baffles added as well.

[PCS9136]

I also wanted to have the tank a little forward so I could access the bilge pump if needed. It may not be easy to reach but it should be accessible without pulling the tank if needed.

[XstreamVking]

2 tanks will be ok. A selector sw will be the way to go. With a big single tank, it is a lot of wt in the back. Mine holds 28 gals, but I seldom fill it with the opti getting 6 mpg or better.