electric catamaran boat to set world record

[noli]

.


Rey Marino (may he rest in peace) would be very proud right about now to see his work become a world record holder


SpeedOnTheWater Electric Hellkat (https://www.speedonthewater.com/vision-marine-technologies-testing-electric-powered-32-foot-cat-with-100-plus-mph-goal-in-mind-at-shootout)

"Vision Marine Technologies Testing Electric-Powered 32-Foot Cat With 100-Plus-MPH Goal In Mind At Shootout (https://www.speedonthewater.com/vision-marine-technologies-testing-electric-powered-32-foot-cat-with-100-plus-mph-goal-in-mind-at-shootout/)"

https://s9d2v9t9.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/vision32_1120-1024x457.jpg






508984

[noli]

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I'm sure that Vision Marine Technologies (https://visionmarinetechnologies.com) had reached out to multiple cat builders to do this proof-of-concept, but for whatever reason the other cat companies was either too busy because of timelines or what, Rey saw a glimpse of the future in his project to help build an electric-powered catamaran boat...another testament that Rey was way ahead of his time..





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH689JQExIo








.

[scott reierson]

Cool..How do I get one of those?

[joneill]

Very cool

[noli]

Cool..How do I get one of those?



perhaps turboeddie can help connect you with Hellkats Powerboats (https://www.facebook.com/hellkat_powerboats-114638219942427)





.

[Brad Zastrow]

I am a big fan of EV's. My wife owns a Tesla. A car takes very little power to cruise down the highway. I recall around 25hp to hold a steady speed. A boat takes a lot of power to cruise at even 60 mph. I assume the range will be very, very low on an electric boat. Adding more heavy batteries for range will not be the answer. In a short run the torque of electric motors on a boat should be good in a Shootout event. The technology is not there yet for large electric boats. Things are changing fast in the EV world. Look at Dodge announcing the gas muscle car is no longer after 2024.

[John S]

Cool..How do I get one of those?

Money. Bring lots of it.:D

Beautiful rig. Wonder why they went outboard. I guess it's easier to package? I would think getting the weight of the motors forward would be beneficial, and use drives. But sure they've thought aboot it more than me. Guess that area is for the batteries. Crazy what people are coming up with these days.

[Chaz]

Cool..How do I get one of those?

Which do you want ... ???

The plastic model in post #1

or

A 32' Hellkat as seen in post #2

Post #1 .. I rekkon ya could pull it around the bathtub with a string, or step out and pull it across the pool with a fishin pole.

Post #2 .. Poor Maytags on spin cycle can barely go fast enough .. to get the hull almost to the point where it's ready to belch the water out of the tunnel .. :rolleyes:

Mid-term's are almost here ... we won't have to put up with all this Blunder Buck Butter / AOCtard garbage much longer ...:thumbsup:

Hey kid .. fill it up with 440V .. I gotz 8 hrs to wait. .. :cool:

What, ya only gotz 90 rec and diesel ... :eek:

Hello -- Sea-Tow ... :o

https://lakehavasumarina.com/images/photos/1.jpg

[JLanier571]

https://m.facebook.com/groups/speedboatmagazine/permalink/2672239832910962/

[Instigator]

Wasn’t Shaun Torennte involved in this, when announced, a while back?

[XstreamVking]

Leave the battery’s in it and add a hydrogen cell to power the electric engines. Or better yet change up to hydrogen engines and ditch the batts. Then you might have a viable project with a realistic range that would actually do as intended. A pure EV boat will always be looking for its next stop to recharge every two hours. Jm2cts

[boostalmighty]

they probably kept it outboards so that when theyre done playing around with this crap they can just drop a couple 300r and not have to do a lot of surgery to rerig

[Beak Boater]

Wasn’t Shaun Torennte involved in this, when announced, a while back?
watch the video in the link above

[CUDA]

Which do you want ... ???



The plastic model in post #1

or

A 32' Hellkat as seen in post #2

Post #1 .. I rekkon ya could pull it around the bathtub with a string, or step out and pull it across the pool with a fishin pole.

Post #2 .. Poor Maytags on spin cycle can barely go fast enough .. to get the hull almost to the point where it's ready to belch the water out of the tunnel .. :rolleyes:

Mid-term's are almost here ... we won't have to put up with all this Blunder Buck Butter / AOCtard garbage much longer ...:thumbsup:

Hey kid .. fill it up with 440V .. I gotz 8 hrs to wait. .. :cool:

What, ya only gotz 90 rec and diesel ... :eek:

Hello -- Sea-Tow ... :o

https://lakehavasumarina.com/images/photos/1.jpg






Clueless old Fart is here to destroy another thread, was hoping you passed.





That boat is Bad love the sound, the next generation batteries will make it a normal reality, they have solar film out you could cover that big flat deck and have FREE power.

https://www.bougerv.com/products/200w-flexible-solar-panel?currency=USD&variant=42994233082072&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5yYBhAjEiwAKXk_eIOpa1souSqWGEsO3K94EFpUo3e-_R2Ph3F8Wr5kqntGCOKnPlx9MhoCWcEQAvD_BwE

[David - WI]

Clueless old Fart is here to destroy another thread, was hoping you passed.





That boat is Bad love the sound, the next generation batteries will make it a normal reality, they have solar film out you could cover that big flat deck and have FREE power.

https://www.bougerv.com/products/200w-flexible-solar-panel?currency=USD&variant=42994233082072&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5yYBhAjEiwAKXk_eIOpa1souSqWGEsO3K94EFpUo3e-_R2Ph3F8Wr5kqntGCOKnPlx9MhoCWcEQAvD_BwE

In full sunlight those 2' x 6' panels are each good for 1/4 hp... and you call someone else "clueless"? :rolleyes:

[JLanier571]

It honestly isn't scream and fly without Chaz's boomer takes. They're crazy, but we will miss them when he's gone. I may always disagree, but I have to credit his enthusiasm, and well used emotes. He was never the target market for this. His headstone won't say anything, it'll just be a purring Merc 2.5 with a eternal supply of race gas.

[powerabout]

700volts close to seawater, got any USCG regs on that yet, asking for a friend?

[Chaz]

It honestly isn't scream and fly without Chaz's boomer takes. They're crazy, but we will miss them when he's gone. I may always disagree, but I have to credit his enthusiasm, and well used emotes. He was never the target market for this. His headstone won't say anything, it'll just be a purring Merc 2.5 with a eternal supply of race gas.

Crazy ... ??? Not so much unless your a Joan Bayhard groupie ... :p

Nor can ya say, that I'm lying or being deceitful of the truth ... ;)

No, if anything, I throw the ball over the plate. Many it seems, can't handle the truth .. that's on them , and honestly I feel sorry for those that are too afraid to say what they know .. or how they feel about an issue.
And my time is much to valuable to me than stand around while they pizz down my leg and try to tell me it's raining ... :D

My hand is in the air .. I was wrong about nowhere to charge the battery's. As Shaun said it hit him all of a sudden, you can plug into shore power.
Granted you have to either live on the water and not go far from home or .. rent a marina slip every few miles .. :rolleyes:

Target audience ... Lets break down what Shaun said. Drive up to the staging area, get a running start @ the flag girl .. go .750 of a mile .. circle back .. make the trip again and it's down to 60% power. It will slow down it you want to go again. So to get it back in condition to run another 1.5 miles wide open, you will need to wait at least 1 1/2 - 2 hours to bring the battery's back up ... or as he said ,,, drink beer with your friends and then ride home @ 20 mph ... pppffftttttt Is that where we're headed .. get drunk and ride home at 20 mph .. Have at it my friend , me I'll pass , and I gotz a Canole' that says Shaun would pass as well ... :D

Our little track is 22 miles. It spans from the Jensen Beach causeway ... to the Ft. Pierce idle zone , just south of South Bridge. The power lines cross the river at aprox half way.
CRUDLY this ones for you ... If the electroalbatross goes 95 MPH wide open and it can do so for 25 seconds ... how much charge time will be needed to cover the first 11 miles .. and then the second 11 miles ... Please, take all the time you need .. :smiletest:

Who did he say, was the best lower unit guy in the world ... ??? And here I thought Dominick did every one he has ever owned ... ;)

Hey .. isn't that an open cockpit boat ??? I could have swore not long ago, he stood right in the middle of my shop floor and said he would never be caught running a non canopy boat wide open .. especially at LOTO... LOL
Well let me introduce you to Bla-bla, CEO of Electrosmoots , a publicly traded company ... ;)
Heck, they might even be able to get Dimbiden to give them a government grant for a few trillion dollars .... to help "cleanup the water". I'm afraid it's gonna take CRUMtard a while to cipher how long it would take to go 22 miles .. but I have a feeling the river will be pretty desolate if they have their way.
I rekkon I'd sell out too ,,, if I just got paid stupid money from a "big board" company to help rig and run a boat for a weekend .. but then again ....:nonod: :nonod: :nonod:

2.5L on my grave stone .. I already gotz a propane 3.0L .. I figgert I'd just shove a hose up CHUBlee's azz before I go ... gotta be enough methane in him to run that baby for a few centuries .... :cheers: <---{ VP 110(=----<<<

Gotta be so cheap to install .. that they will let you charge up for free ... :p

https://www.docksidepower.com/

[powerabout]

Nobody mentioned how many KVA the batterys are, so we cant do a rough calc on charging time

[Instigator]

I think he said they were pulling 400 amps per motor!

Cant even wrap my mind around that.

Chaz, have fun bro!



Nobody mentioned how many KVA the batterys are, so we cant do a rough calc on charging time

[Jimboat]

I wonder what this fully rigged setup weighs?

[boostalmighty]

Crazy ... ??? Not so much unless your a Joan Bayhard groupie ... :p

Nor can ya say, that I'm lying or being deceitful of the truth ... ;)

No, if anything, I throw the ball over the plate. Many it seems, can't handle the truth .. that's on them , and honestly I feel sorry for those that are too afraid to say what they know .. or how they feel about an issue.
And my time is much to valuable to me than stand around while they pizz down my leg and try to tell me it's raining ... :D

My hand is in the air .. I was wrong about nowhere to charge the battery's. As Shaun said it hit him all of a sudden, you can plug into shore power.
Granted you have to either live on the water and not go far from home or .. rent a marina slip every few miles .. :rolleyes:

Target audience ... Lets break down what Shaun said. Drive up to the staging area, get a running start @ the flag girl .. go .750 of a mile .. circle back .. make the trip again and it's down to 60% power. It will slow down it you want to go again. So to get it back in condition to run another 1.5 miles wide open, you will need to wait at least 1 1/2 - 2 hours to bring the battery's back up ... or as he said ,,, drink beer with your friends and then ride home @ 20 mph ... pppffftttttt Is that where we're headed .. get drunk and ride home at 20 mph .. Have at it my friend , me I'll pass , and I gotz a Canole' that says Shaun would pass as well ... :D

Our little track is 22 miles. It spans from the Jensen Beach causeway ... to the Ft. Pierce idle zone , just south of South Bridge. The power lines cross the river at aprox half way.
CRUDLY this ones for you ... If the electroalbatross goes 95 MPH wide open and it can do so for 25 seconds ... how much charge time will be needed to cover the first 11 miles .. and then the second 11 miles ... Please, take all the time you need .. :smiletest:

Who did he say, was the best lower unit guy in the world ... ??? And here I thought Dominick did every one he has ever owned ... ;)

Hey .. isn't that an open cockpit boat ??? I could have swore not long ago, he stood right in the middle of my shop floor and said he would never be caught running a non canopy boat wide open .. especially at LOTO... LOL
Well let me introduce you to Bla-bla, CEO of Electrosmoots , a publicly traded company ... ;)
Heck, they might even be able to get Dimbiden to give them a government grant for a few trillion dollars .... to help "cleanup the water". I'm afraid it's gonna take CRUMtard a while to cipher how long it would take to go 22 miles .. but I have a feeling the river will be pretty desolate if they have their way.
I rekkon I'd sell out too ,,, if I just got paid stupid money from a "big board" company to help rig and run a boat for a weekend .. but then again ....:nonod: :nonod: :nonod:

2.5L on my grave stone .. I already gotz a propane 3.0L .. I figgert I'd just shove a hose up CHUBlee's azz before I go ... gotta be enough methane in him to run that baby for a few centuries .... :cheers: <---{ VP 110(=----<<<

Gotta be so cheap to install .. that they will let you charge up for free ... :p

https://www.docksidepower.com/

holy **** the amount of logic in this post is almost unfathomable. these are the posts i live for!!

[CUDA]

I wonder what this fully rigged setup weighs?
4,610
All your answers are in the Facebook post

https://m.facebook.com/groups/speedboatmagazine/permalink/2672239832910962/

[CUDA]

In full sunlight those 2" x 6" panels are each good for 1/4 hp... and you call someone else "clueless"? :rolleyes:


The tech is now coming on line to make super thin solar sheets, I believe you will see solar installed between the gel coat and fiber in the mold from factory, I used a very little solar panel on top of a skid steer about 14x20 inch I leave at my dump site where there is no power, I have since installed a new starter and fixed the problem but it kept the battery fully charged, diesels like to spin fast to start, I was just showing that solar is getting cheaper and better designs all the time.
If this post is read 10 years from now you will realize how time have changed because those heavy batteries we use today will be a antique design that we joke about, but It's all we have today, this whole industry is just starting to show many different ideas to cure the problems that are faced with lithium, cobalt, nickel.

https://youtu.be/tQmFVcD-Mbo

Clueless

[XstreamVking]

Ten years from now they will laugh at how stupid we were to throw all this money into a non starter like electric power for cars and boats. As reserve power for a home or dedicated factory it’s viable. As soon as you make it Mobil it is not viable. I predict that hydrogen will end up being the power source that we end up using to replace petroleum. It’s already in the field and working fine just like propane. In certain applications it works great. Transportation is one. The company’s like Toyota are heavily invested in transportation and they don’t screw around spending foolishly. If ev’s were the end all be all they would not develop cars with hydrogen

[Beak Boater]

Hey Cuda....Real Classy. To wish someone dead because you disagree with their opinion, shows how much you really need help.





That boat is Bad love the sound, the next generation batteries will make it a normal reality, they have solar film out you could cover that big flat deck and have FREE power.

https://www.bougerv.com/products/200w-flexible-solar-panel?currency=USD&variant=42994233082072&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5yYBhAjEiwAKXk_eIOpa1souSqWGEsO3K94EFpUo3e-_R2Ph3F8Wr5kqntGCOKnPlx9MhoCWcEQAvD_BwE[/QUOTE]

[XstreamVking]

Jesus, another novel. Who would want to filter thru all that gobblegook. Electric is a new fad because the crooks in the government (who own stock in Chinas production of lithium and solar panels) get a BIG kickback from the mandating and promotion of electric stuff. They get nothing from hydrogen development. Catch my drift? See their grift?

[Chaz]

hey cuda....real classy. To wish someone dead because you disagree with their opinion, shows how much you really need help.

One must remember that CRUD is a special kind of stupid. He's for "free speech" as long as it align's with the anti-AMERICA movement he belongs too ... he and a couple others here are an island unto themselves.

He thinks 10,000 words from others thoughts are chaff enough that we will forget.
(yes the dark garbage he posts have actually locked the site before. Look above, he did a pretty poor job once again of his signature cut and paste jobs .. LMAO )

CRUD .. the math too hard for you .. or is it someone already helped you and you found out that it will take a full day + to go 22 miles .. Only an idiot would spend the time money and effort to go in that direction .. come to think of it, you'd be a perfect fit .. :thumbsup:

22 miles , 1.5 miles at a time .. stop 14+ time's to charge for an hour and 45 minutes ... tard thinking at it's finest ... :rolleyes:

[PanRonnie]

There still some kinks to work out

https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk
Thinking $ 70.000,- is a bit on the high side for an engine package
And if everybody goes electric tomorrow you are going to need some serious nucleair backup
But how many years was the outboard around before breaking the 100 hp number
190 kg for an electric outboard is still way to much:(

[Chaz]

Jesus, another novel. Who would want to filter thru all that gobblegook. Electric is a new fad because the crooks in the government (who own stock in Chinas production of lithium and solar panels) get a BIG kickback from the mandating and promotion of electric stuff. They get nothing from hydrogen development. Catch my drift? See their grift?


V-king .. Novel's I have read .. kept me interested, intrigued, anticipating the next sentence, paragraph, page and chapter ... ;)

The gobblegook as you aptly named the randomly cut and paste, out of sequence, nonsense is that of a former #1 village idiot" as apposed to the magic of a good author.
I do however agree, those posts do have the volume of a novel. I would imagine it's easy to post 10,000 word essays .. when your writing comes from "google" instead of your own personal thought's ... :thumbsup:

CRUBLY ... I noticed you still haven't been able to narrow down the math problem (well problem to you) that I posted to show how inefficient electric propulsion would be . I'm sure you could google "on line calculators" and they probably have instruction videos to show you how to do simple math .. but then if you saw for yourself ... you wouldn't be able to cut and paste more stupid $hiz, about things you know nothing about ...:p

[PanRonnie]

If you are bored

https://youtu.be/pLcqJ2DclEg
Long story short the charging stations are not build!
What he does not mention is where that electricity has to come from
Imagine all transport in the US is electric tommorow cars, trucks, river shipping we will leave planes out it
How big is the grid system needing to be 10 fold, 100 fold , 1000 fold?
In the netherlands we already have some area,s where new business offices cannot be build because off grid capability same for solar parks they cannot hook them up to the main grid because off capacity in that area
now shell is going to build hydrogen factory,s in rotterdam
so battery cars yes! boats and trucks i don,t believe
so the catamaran is halfway there just needs some rugged hydrogen fuel cells and someone with an unlimited credit card so that in 30 years people like me can dumpster dive for parts

[powerabout]

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?355484-Electric-speed-record

[noli]

.


I think its gonna take an electric powered boat to break the 200MPH outboard speed record on the water


I hear the torque is unbelievable on electric motors





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[powerabout]

.


I think its gonna take an electric powered boat to break the 200MPH outboard speed record on the water


I hear the torque is unbelievable on electric motors





.

electric motor wins over combustion in most cases.
Depending on motor design they can have the same torque from stall to full rpm.
That will win any drag race.
Problem is batterys need to be 20 to 50 times better than today. So do Solar panels.
https://www.blue-growth.org/Blue_Growth_Innovations_Solutions/Boats_Fastest_Solar_Powered_Electrics_World_Water_Speed_Records.htm

[powerabout]

Besides battery design and more efficient electric motors etc these electric products need to do what a car already does with its own battery, recharge itself. When an EV can be used without depending on external charging, they will have something. It will be costly complex. Performance applications ? Good luck. I think these vehicles like tesla are only here now to get people to bite on the idea

for a non plug in car to work, its going to need solar panels that dont yet exist or induction loop in the road.

[Swabby]

The E-Motion™ 180E powertrain system can be rigged and custom fit onto virtually any 18 to 29 foot boat. Its powertrain technology is designed for 15 nautical miles of driving range. This is more than enough to cover the average family’s day on the water, which is generally around 9 nautical miles.

Then it needs an overnight 220 amp charge ?

So when I lived in FL it was 5-7 miles in a straight line out to the reef line. Very rarely would someone have a straight line, at best you drove around shallow spots. Often you had to take a trip to get to a point where you could begin your straight line. I would estimate 20 miles as a minimum for most going out on the water. The auto parts stores would sell an amazing number of batteries as people would have enough of a problem keeping a good 12v battery in their boat.

Electric cars are nice when they are new and perfect, but then so is every new car. Unfortunately the reality can be compared to power tools. Imagine having your only option for battery tools (considering you aren't someone who get a new car every couple years) being buying used and as old as the car you are driving now . . .Now an electric boat well now lets just say that those used power tools have been used outside all their life having never been maintained or kept out of the weather.

[powerabout]

Down hill water fixes most issues with electric

[Instigator]

Hyundai and Kia just announced a 280k recall on their electrics.

Warning owners, do no park them in your garage!

Was on earlier, stating, do not charge over 80%!

Freagin hilarious!

And the joke of a typical trip being 19 mls, round trip!

[Swabby]

Staying with a sunk/swamped boat takes on an entirely new risk. Saw a tesla stuck on the side of the road the other day (long stretch of nothing), guess they ran out of juice so a long tow then a very long recharge.

[Swabby]

Considering they have been trying to work out the kinks for over a century I wouldn't hold my breath. Personally Im going to build up a new motor to run on brown gas. That plus a diesel genny and Im not worried about the grid.

[powerabout]

Coal must be getting cheap

[John S]

Not sure why this has to turn into a social debate every time one of these threads comes around. I'd think as a group of people that appreciate performance and technology, these kind of things would be better received. The whole "what aboot the grid " argument is laughable. Our electric transmission system is archaic as it is and needs upgrading regardless of EVs or not. I'm an electrician, I've worked on transmission lines, substations, and wind farms. Know what's a giant consumer of electricity??? Refineries.There's plenty of answers to your questions if you really wanted them. But go on, rabble rabble all you want. The future is coming with or without you.

The beauty behind EV's IMO is consolidation of pollution, and neck snapping acceleration. I love my gas powered stuff, the sound of a 2.5 or my Ducati V twin is pure sex. But when the time comes, I will have zero issues with flipping over to an EV.

[CUDA]

Even when way more efficient solar comes along you need a constant source of sun (clouds, nighttime lol ? ) Maybe very efficient generator/alternator at all fours wheels providing a constant reliable charge ? Boats ? Maybe turn a sea strainer design into the same kind of thing ? Then again maybe we will skip right to the Jetsons


https://sunergysystems.com/how-much-power-can-solar-energy-generate-on-a-cloudy-day/

[powerabout]

Apba should have some development electric racing classes but way down in single engine boats.
That will allow motor and battery technology to be pushed.
Lots of criteria for rules, volts, current, battery weight, time based duration races, etc.
Imho that might get sponsors interested.

[David - WI]

If the goal is solely to drive up the cost of racing... they could use turbines or rockets.

Since there's no actual climate crisis and no gasoline shortages... non of this makes much sense. If not for government subsidies they would still he trying to find someone to buy the first Tesla.

If you really want an electric boat... you put avnuclear reactor in it, everybody knows that.

[ebynus]

509198
How Dare you?

[Instigator]

I hear the electric boat went 109 today.

[HydroSkreamin]

I hear the electric boat went 109 today.
You heard correctly.

Shaun stated in his interview with Bob Teague that the battery level at the start of the run was 97% and at the end was 83%.

They stated that they used about $5 in electricity for the weekend.

Shaun then threw down that they intend to run 130 next year and park all the gas outboards. We’ll just see about that…;)

[Chaz]

Rockefeller quit dumping gasoline in the Hudson river when Henry Ford found a good use for it over a century ago.

Climate change .. is a hoax. If you think you can do something to make it different, practice up. I have a doctors appointment on E. Ocean Blvd, Thursday afternoon. I'll meet you at Stuart Beach ... Show me how you command the Atlantic to lay flat, then roll the curl out to sea, instead of up on the beach ... :rolleyes:

Whats worse, the (some) American people have been conned into spending billions of their tax dollars on this money grab ... scam.

The tards have closed pipelines, shut down refineries, stopped fracking .. all before a thought out plan was put in place to replace fossil fuel .. a true case of putting the cart in front of the horse. $2.00 gasoline .. :nonod: NO, spend big money to travel less. Afterall, if you pay for your gas with cash and shut your tracking devise off, you can potentially cross as many state lines as you wish ... WTF do you think this is .. America ..???? No, you have to stay in Motels, short trips, charge all your batteries via credit card ... BTW, any of you lefties got xi jin ping's cell number ..???

Maybe while they are at it,they can start making , grease and other lubricants , roof shingles, asphalt and plastics ... out of electricity ... Duuuu, never thought of that . :p

[noli]

.


it's official. The electric powered boat ran 109MPH in LOTO Shootout
509262

The motor.. (https://visionmarinetechnologies.com/e-motion-180e/)
509264

The driver .. (https://www.facebook.com/shauntorrenteracing)
509263


Boat Manufacturer .. (https://www.facebook.com/hellkat_powerboats-114638219942427)
509265


Boat builder .. (https://www.facebook.com/hellkat_powerboats-114638219942427)
Hellkat Powerboats continues to build boats after the passing of Rey Marino (may you rest in peace brother Rey)
509266



Engine mid section(race) and lower unit(race)
509267

[GaryConn]

That's impressive! And they are 180 hp? I wonder if that speed could be duplicated with 300R's?

[noli]

.



the motors were setup to have 340HP peak

Turboeddie would know the top end speed with 300Rs



.

[XstreamVking]

WOW That’s getting it done. While my opinion is that electric is pointless, I do appreciate the effort that is being put into this boat and the skill needed to operate it on the edge of its performance potential. Quite an accomplishment.

[Noah Burns]

So it used up over 10% of it's battery in a 3/4 mile run... but it's going to put all the other outboards out to pasture? Give me a break. Shaun himself won't be switching to electric anytime soon so it's foolish to say anything of the nature.

[CUDA]

That's impressive! And they are 180 hp? I wonder if that speed could be duplicated with 300R's?

Electric stuff uses a lot more juice when you crank them wide open, a lot more than gas engines at wide open, a lot more

These motors will be running at almost half potential for normal use using a lot LESS power from batteries, I owned a ZERO motorcycle and It's easy to juice them up but for wide open usage it will eat battery's.

We are just at the beginning of this tech give it a few years, the tech is in the labs, once they work out all the kinks with batteries it's over.

The electric motor was developed before the IC.

Been a diesel guy for a long time because of Torque and that is where these motors shine, Instant full torque ... instant :reddevil:

IT's all about storing juice, the motors are the easy part,

love the statement we took out the reverse gears because we just reverse the motor and no transmission, much too simple:cheers:

[Noah Burns]

Electric stuff uses a lot more juice when you crank them wide open, a lot more that gas engines at wide open, a lot more

These motors will be running at almost half potential for normal use using a lot LESS power from batteries, I owned a ZERO motorcycle and It's easy to juice them up but for wide open usage it will eat battery's.

We are just at the beginning of this tech give it a few years, the tech is in the labs, once they work out all the kinks with batteries it's over.

The electric motor was developed before the IC.

Been a diesel guy for a long time because of Torque and that is where these motors shine, Instant full torque ... instant :reddevil:

IT's all about storing juice, the motors are the easy part,

love the statement we took out the gears because we just reverse the motor and no transmission, much too simple:cheers:

Google says there is a 25 year difference between when IC and EM were invented... so they've had 25 more years to make electric motors work and be efficient and they're not there yet. I have no issue with electric cars, boats whatever, I just take issue with the argument that they are greener than other power sources.

[XstreamVking]

When the truth sits right in front of you, yet you still deny it.....electrical production is not up to the task. What part of that don’t some people understand?

[Brad Zastrow]

In my opinion the electric outboard setup for a short drag race like the Shootout will soon be much faster than any gas engine. Drive an electric car and you will see what I mean. MY Tesla is 700 lbs of torque and is instant power with no waiting to spool up like a gas engine. That is why EV's are killing it at the drag strip in production cars. I think the problem for EV boats is range. But that is changing rapidly. No, I would not buy an EV boat for now. But for the Shootout Shaun is 100% correct.

[CUDA]

Never should have stopped Nuclear power

It's safe and works GREAT;)

https://youtu.be/VLEpq1bJ0iA

[Beak Boater]

What's wrong with a social debate...isn't that what this forum is about? Sharing thoughts and ideas. Maybe I misunderstood you. dunno
Not sure why this has to turn into a social debate every time one of these threads comes around. I'd think as a group of people that appreciate performance and technology, these kind of things would be better received. The whole "what aboot the grid " argument is laughable. Our electric transmission system is archaic as it is and needs upgrading regardless of EVs or not. I'm an electrician, I've worked on transmission lines, substations, and wind farms. Know what's a giant consumer of electricity??? Refineries.There's plenty of answers to your questions if you really wanted them. But go on, rabble rabble all you want. The future is coming with or without you.

The beauty behind EV's IMO is consolidation of pollution, and neck snapping acceleration. I love my gas powered stuff, the sound of a 2.5 or my Ducati V twin is pure sex. But when the time comes, I will have zero issues with flipping over to an EV.

[Beak Boater]

As a comparison...a 30 Liberator with 300R's went 87 on the same course. Impressive for the electric boat for sure....but I'm thinking those Electric outboards are a little stronger than 180 hp
That's impressive! And they are 180 hp? I wonder if that speed could be duplicated with 300R's?

[XstreamVking]

Said they were tuned to 340 hp. So life span of motor is shortened as well? I would think so.!

[John S]

What's wrong with a social debate...isn't that what this forum is about? Sharing thoughts and ideas. Maybe I misunderstood you. dunno

To some extent, it's good. But this is the general boating sub forum. There's a dumpster fire of a political forum below, that oddly enough hasn't changed a bit since the unfortunate passing of the moderator of that forum. And that garbage little by little, by the same morons that do it down there, is making it's way up here. Libtard this, commie that, blah blah blah. Most all of their "points", if thats what you want to call them, age like potato salad in the sun on a warm day.

I've always found problem solving and engineering interesting. This is an example of both, and congrats to them taking this on. That's a beautiful boat, and.combined with the motors, hauls ass. I doubt the people doing the never ending bashing haven't even been in an EV or 4 stroke powered hi perf boat. Just sittin on the porch, barking like lap dogs. The point of the thread was to showcase a boat screaming and flying. But like always, the same culprits come in and piss in the punch bowl.

[CUDA]

Google says there is a 25 year difference between when IC and EM were invented... so they've had 25 more years to make electric motors work and be efficient and they're not there yet. I have no issue with electric cars, boats whatever, I just take issue with the argument that they are greener than other power sources.

Shaun said he used $5.00 in electric, that's good mileage

Solar panel efficiency is now going over 20% and getting cheaper


https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/how-much-land-power-us-solar/

[XstreamVking]

Think just about everyone has said it’s cool and quite an accomplishment. The debate is about electric powered vehicles in general.

[Noah Burns]

$5 in electric in a 3/4 mile pull? that's not good mileage at all is it? what's a normal 2.5 burn, 20-25 gallons per hour? That's roughly $70 to $88 for premium where I am right now for an hour of use. A 15-20 second pull used $5 in energy, seems pretty "thirsty" to me.



Shaun said he used $5.00 in electric, that's good mileage

Solar panel efficiency is now going over 20% and getting cheaper


https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/how-much-land-power-us-solar/

[engineermike]

In fairness, he said $5 for the weekend which includes two 3/4 mile passes at 680 hp total, plus the especially thirsty acceleration distance plus the return ride and any other testing that was done. How much fuel would triple 2.5’s use doing the same? More or less than a gallon?

[GaryConn]

.



the motors were setup to have 340HP peak

Turboeddie would know the top end speed with 300Rs



.
Wow I didn't know they could make 340hp! What is the weight, compared to a 300R?

[noli]

.


hey Gary, the motor that ran in LOTO is a specially prepared motor with a racing mid section and racing lower unit, thus the weight would be different than the standard Electric Motor distro


509271



specs says 414 pounds

509272





.

[Noah Burns]

That is a much different scenario, $5 for the entire weekend. If it dropped 13% on a single run, expect probably 50% total use for runs and returns over the weekend? $10 in electric to charge it fully, that's better if that's the case. Overall range not being taken in to account, that's not a bad full charge price.



In fairness, he said $5 for the weekend which includes two 3/4 mile passes at 680 hp total, plus the especially thirsty acceleration distance plus the return ride and any other testing that was done. How much fuel would triple 2.5’s use doing the same? More or less than a gallon?

[Beak Boater]

I wonder how much the batteries weigh. Never saw that anywhere unless I missed it.

[XstreamVking]

Seems I have seen Tesla’s do a big charge for 50-60 bucks. range is 300 at most

[engineermike]

That is a much different scenario, $5 for the entire weekend. If it dropped 13% on a single run, expect probably 50% total use for runs and returns over the weekend? $10 in electric to charge it fully, that's better if that's the case. Overall range not being taken in to account, that's not a bad full charge price.

I worked out the math both ways and the electric cat gets about 4x the mileage/$ vs a gas engine. $5 will get you 38 kwhr at published Missouri rates. That’s 51 hphr, so you could run a 50 hp motor at max power for 1 hour for $5. Or for the same amount you could run 680 hp for 4.5 minutes at wot, er, 100% duty cycle or uh wide open rheostat?

[JPEROG]

I would be all for an electric assist when they get the battery weight down. Biden is getting ready to fund research of built in charge strips being placed in our National highways of major cities. We would be better off policing the rest of the world to our current standards rather then spending crazy money chasing the small percentage of emissions we have remaining from new cars. The first 50% reduction is pennies compared the remaining 50%.

Joe

[Instigator]

One of the papers had a journalist do a story on driving an electric car from New Orleans to Chicago and back, over a weekend.

Was an abortion!

Spent all weekend waiting on charging and absolutely hated it!

[noli]

.



Saturday's world record-breaking run



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lblt1nr-97Y









.

[CUDA]

Seems I have seen Tesla’s do a big charge for 50-60 bucks. range is 300 at most



The most popular method: Home charging
Fully recharging an electric car with a healthy range of 300 miles would require 75-100 kWh and cost $10-$14.Apr 1, 2022


Try again

[XstreamVking]

I have seen several attempts to prove the ev’s viable. Running from charger to charger and putting in just enough to get to the next charger. It’s a failure unless you use it as a local transport like my neighbor does. For him it’s great. Solar charger and after a few sunny days it’s ready for a trip around town. He won’t plug it in to the grid. He’s a retired engineer and just has fun with it.

[Brad Zastrow]

A lot of misinformation about EV's in this thread. I have driven my Tesla on some 900 mile trips. The most I paid for a Supercharge was about $25. Charging at home is much cheaper. The charging takes about 25-30 min at a supercharger. It does add some time to the trip but it is not the worst. 99% of the use of the car is local. It is cheap to drive, it is really fast and the maintenance is low. No oil changes, brakes last well over 100,000 miles as the car generator charges the car as it slows it down. The grid can handle as much as 80% of the cars on the road being EV. It is the future of the auto market. Look at what direction the auto manufactures are going.

[Chaz]

To some extent, it's good. But this is the general boating sub forum. There's a dumpster fire of a political forum below, that oddly enough hasn't changed a bit since the unfortunate passing of the moderator of that forum. And that garbage little by little, by the same morons that do it down there, is making it's way up here. Libtard this, commie that, blah blah blah. Most all of their "points", if thats what you want to call them, age like potato salad in the sun on a warm day.

I've always found problem solving and engineering interesting. This is an example of both, and congrats to them taking this on. That's a beautiful boat, and.combined with the motors, hauls ass. I doubt the people doing the never ending bashing haven't even been in an EV or 4 stroke powered hi perf boat. Just sittin on the porch, barking like lap dogs. The point of the thread was to showcase a boat screaming and flying. But like always, the same culprits come in and piss in the punch bowl.

Don't look now, but you just called the patriots on this site ... morons. In the general boating section .. Whats a madda wit chew .. A freakin moron or sumptin .. :p

If you have a problem with the political section ... don't visit it .. pretty simple .. :rolleyes:

Problem solving .. whats the problem ... ???

Most of us see the problem as the money grab .. if you can't see that , then don't "invent non-existent problems" .. and then spend a fortune to seek a solution .. with our tax money ..:(

Try to keep up ... As stated previously, my cross the street neighbor has a Tesla .. everyone on my street has rode it like a $10.00 %^$*# .. anytime I was in it .. my neighbor spent more time look at the battery level gauge ... than the road ahead. Maybe he knows something you don't .. ;)
My county is named the "Sailfish capital of the world" lots of people here bough porkchops to go out in the deep water. They have enough money to fill the transom with them things. And they usually need someone who has fished So.Florida his whole life .. No 450's yet, however .. 300 hp from a twin cam / 4 valve / EFI /4.6L is kinda weak where I come from. 100 HP / L is pretty easy and common, so I imagine the 450's run like the 300's should ... just sayin :smiletest:

Showcase the boat .. there are two thread, how much technical information can be shared by railbirds..???
I throw myself in that pile as well. I can say I've seen where guys who tried to pull their race car from one side of the track to the other with electric golf carts .. go dead before making it back to the trailer ... then show up the next week with a gas cart.
Google Tesla fires ... bunch of them out there ... Inferno's :eek:

!!! Warning !!! from MFG's .. don't park your EV in the house garage ...:nonod:

You gonna sleep on a electric fishin rig ... where ya gonna swim too .. ;)

So there was a guy with a V-hull and one electric motor that went .. 80 something MPH .. OK it was a world record :rolleyes:

Now they put 2 of them on a cat that should (does) run 120 with 300x or 300r motors ... and they are world record holders @ 109 ... world champions .. the greatest ever. Sure a publicly traded company built a business card .. much like many did on American Chopper. I hope they got their moneys worth in exposure.
I see that by it being thought of as more than "just a novelty" as it coming to a point where big brother says no more new gasoline vehicles .. no more using gasoline in old cars, boats, bikes , airplanes ... there will always be those who (notice I didn't call them lib-tard idiots) will nod their heads .. yea, thats a good idea .. grind our once great country ... to a halt ... No F'in thank you !

One , two, three boat classes ... LOL Everyone's a winner !

Where I come from .. 90+ people would show up to try to qualify for 32 spots .. yep 58 to more than 60 would be told .. thanks for donating , see ya at the next one .:thumbsup:

[powerabout]

When trucks are electric, it will be a signal its ready for boats as load is similar

[boostalmighty]

A lot of misinformation about EV's in this thread. I have driven my Tesla on some 900 mile trips. The most I paid for a Supercharge was about $25. Charging at home is much cheaper. The charging takes about 25-30 min at a supercharger. It does add some time to the trip but it is not the worst. 99% of the use of the car is local. It is cheap to drive, it is really fast and the maintenance is low. No oil changes, brakes last well over 100,000 miles as the car generator charges the car as it slows it down. The grid can handle as much as 80% of the cars on the road being EV. It is the future of the auto market. Look at what direction the auto manufactures are going.

80% is an unrealistic expectation right now, we're already seeing grid failures in california and theyre at about 16% ev. I think theres very little misinformation about ev's in this thread honestly. is it doable right now? yes. is it cost effective? I dont think so. once you factor in cost of the car and how much longer it takes to charge a car VS fueling up then i dont think its worth it.

[David - WI]

By the time you get to 30% - 40% EV's you're going to:

A) have to start paying some alternative road tax in order to maintain the roads, bridges, charging stations. etc.
B) be paying 3 or 4 times as much for electricity as you are now; which won't only make EV ownership more expensive but also heating, air conditioning, manufacturing, broadcasting, etc... the cost of everything will go up.

EV's are basically getting a "free ride" right now because there are so few (relatively) that the legislation, regulation, and market forces aren't mature yet.

[CUDA]

When trucks are electric, it will be a signal its ready for boats as load is similar

https://youtu.be/vo-iWbv4uMw

[Brad Zastrow]

Link to website about the grid


Can the U.S. infrastructure grid handle electric cars? | Jerry (getjerry.com) (https://getjerry.com/questions/can-the-us-infrastructure-grid-handle-electric-cars)

[boostalmighty]

can we all agree that hydrogen and nuclear are both wayyyyy better options and our resources would be better applied to them instead of EV?

[CUDA]

Google says there is a 25 year difference between when IC and EM were invented... so they've had 25 more years to make electric motors work and be efficient and they're not there yet. I have no issue with electric cars, boats whatever, I just take issue with the argument that they are greener than other power sources.


Noah what IC motor makes 49,000 HP and is that small, will turn a BIG prop on a BIG ship, not there yet ???

https://indico.cern.ch/event/760666/contributions/3390601/attachments/1880202/3099643/Navy_Motors-20190715.pdf

[John S]

can we all agree that hydrogen and nuclear are both wayyyyy better options and our resources would be better applied to them instead of EV?

Nuclear for transmission, yes. Backed by renewables, is the best option. Hydrogen has flaws, just like any other power source. It consumes a great deal of resources to produce, water and electricity for example. And it would take a ton more work to create a distribution infrastructure. There already is the infrastructure there for EV (we can do the grid debate all day long, but I don't think many people even understand what part of the grid they're talking aboot), and there needs to be a different mindset when it comes to charging. Like your portable electric devices, your car in most instances can be charging at night, whole on off peak demand. Unlike fueling your car when it's at 1/4 tank (or 1/64 if your a woman), and on a basic 20A/ 120V ckt. It could easily be replenished every single night.

As for time taken to charge in the outside world, well that's another debate if thats your only method. But for many, I don't think it is.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/29/umber-of-evs-with-300-miles-of-range-tripled-in-us-in-2022/

[JPEROG]

The new hummer is incredible. I ordered one after driving it. 1000 hp and torque that is absolutely stupid. They expect range on the next version to be increased by 200 miles per charge. They are only getting that now (good friend is a dealer and drives like I do).

Joe

[ZiemerSTV]

Three things I will never own:
EV
Trike
Pontoon Boat

Nuff said

[Noah Burns]

I worked on locomotives for a while, they made all kinds of a big deal about how they're "electric" since the trucks are indeed electric motors... they never liked to mention the absolutely massive diesel that it took to provide that electricity on each locomotive. Same for most if not all ships out there today other than those test beds.



Noah what IC motor makes 49,000 HP and is that small, will turn a BIG prop on a BIG ship, not there yet ???

https://indico.cern.ch/event/760666/contributions/3390601/attachments/1880202/3099643/Navy_Motors-20190715.pdf

[XstreamVking]

Lot of the greenie sailboats are using electric motors. They found that on the open ocean when there’s no wind that they are stuck. In theory it’s viable. In reality it can be downright dangerous when there’s a reef and no wind. But the batteries are too flat to beat the current.

[PanRonnie]

Link to website about the grid


Can the U.S. infrastructure grid handle electric cars? | Jerry (getjerry.com) (https://getjerry.com/questions/can-the-us-infrastructure-grid-handle-electric-cars)

I think Jerry needs a better calculator
i don,t know about america but in the netherlands a house uses about 6 to 8 Kw per day
now the owner buys a tesla S 100 ( 100Kw ) and needs to recharge every 2 days at night when solar is down or a good chance there is less or no wind
god forbid if they have 2 cars per house
now the grid is build for that 6 to 8 Kw per day with some margin but not 10 times as much so not a 10 to 15% increase
still no problem if you are the only one on your block with 2 electric cars but now the everybody needs or wants one or 2
do you see where i am getting at?
ok you go to work hopefully to a warehouse type building with lots of solar panels but if not chances are you will not be able to recharge during the day
i don,t say it can,t be done but everybody will need to get a serious move on and work those african childeren a bit harder to get the Kobalt out

[Noah Burns]

I live in Texas, where mild snow storms or normal heat waves create havoc on the power grid... there is ZERO % chance that our grid currently or any time soon would be able to handle high volumes of ev use. I don't care what any link says, real life experience says otherwise.


Link to website about the grid


Can the U.S. infrastructure grid handle electric cars? | Jerry (getjerry.com) (https://getjerry.com/questions/can-the-us-infrastructure-grid-handle-electric-cars)

[PanRonnie]

I wonder how much the batteries weigh. Never saw that anywhere unless I missed it.

A tesla S 100Kw battery Weighs 600 kilogram
Don't think hé has that on board more likley 200 to 300 kilogram

[CUDA]

But you said electric motors have 25 years more development time and they aren't there yet, so I show you a little motor that's to be used by our Navy and you talk about diesel? what about nuclear as in subs, aircraft carriers ?

Our first nuclear sub came out in 1955, 67 years ago,

49,000 HP not bad for a motor the size of a van, show me one IC motor 1/2 that power... Please.

1/4 that power a 10th ?

and no mantaince;)

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/sites/default/files/styles/resource_banner/public/2022-01/620x348_Navy.jpg?itok=urJB1n5z


The US Navy’s first full-electric power and propulsion surface combatant, the USS Zumwalt, has been delivered to the US Navy.
The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, survivability, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable.
As the top integrated electric power and propulsion provider to navies around the world, GE leveraged proven technologies for its innovative full-electric propulsion system and will continue to build on those innovations going forward.

The US Navy has taken delivery of the USS Zumwalt, its first full-electric power and propulsion ship. GE’s Power Conversion business (NYSE:GE) was the designer and provider for the high-voltage system (HV), propulsion drive trains consisting of multiphase converters and Advanced Induction Motors (AIM) (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) for the DDG 1000 class of futuristic destroyers.
“Delivery is an important milestone for the Navy, as the DDG 1000 continues more advanced at-sea testing of the Zumwalt Combat System,” Capt. Kevin Smith, DDG 1000 program manager, said in a Navy statement -”The combat test team, consisting of the DDG 1000 sailors, Raytheon engineers, and Navy field activity teams, have worked diligently to get USS Zumwalt ready for more complex, multi-mission at-sea testing.”
With delivery, the USS Zumwalt continues to execute missions for the US Navy.[/COLOR]
]Power where it’s needed
For navies around the globe, power and energy are mission enablers, according to Kevin Byrne, who leads the North American marine segment for GE’s Power Conversion business. “Because electric power is needed for various operations and mission systems in parallel, this full-electric power and propulsion ship has the flexibility to direct energy where it is needed on the platform,” he said.
]The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable for containment and isolation.
]Employing GE’s innovative and Integrated Power System (IPS), the DDG 1000 has the capacity to distribute electricity across the entire ship, allowing for enhanced power flexibility for various operational requirements.
Both of GE’s drive trains have two electric motors in tandem. VDM25000 power converters (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000) with three independent channels accompany the 15-phase AIM. Each motor drive train can operate on 5, 10, or 15 phases. This provides high redundancy and is more economical when running at lower power. GE’s AIM drive train (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) was selected to meet the requirements of the ZUMWALT Class Destroyer.
]Compact enough for combatant ships and powerful enough for an aircraft carrier, AIM technology has demonstrated its performance over more than two decades on land and at sea for mechanical strength, robustness, very low maintenance, and naval performance requirements. For the full-electric propulsion system, GE leveraged its proven technologies, building from the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) land-based test site and its own Marine Power Test Facility in the UK, alongside the UK Royal Navy Type 45 program (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/case-study/type-45-destroyer-daring-class-worlds-first-full-electric-propulsion-combatant-ship), Byrne explained. “The US Navy gets benefits from our other platforms that we then could apply to the DDG 1000 and future platforms.”
With 72 MW of propulsion power, GE’s Integrated Full Electric Propulsion (IFEP) system comprises all shipboard electrical power generation and propulsion including the propulsion motor, VDM25000 variable speed drives (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000), switchboards, and HV equipment. Offering improved efficiency, the electric drive eliminates the need for the drive shaft and reduction gears and brings benefits in acoustic signature reduction, an increase in available power for operational requirements and improvements in the quality of life for crew. The all-electric propulsion of Zumwalt also generates additional reserved power, allowing the integration of future high-energy defense systems and sensors.
]Recognizing that navies were demanding more energy amidst space constraints, GE has been developing its full-electric propulsion system for decades, Byrne said. With more than 100 electric and hybrid references with 15 navies globally, GE is the top electric propulsion provider to navies around the world.
]Since 2007, GE has been the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for HV system, installation, commissioning and servicing for the US Navy’s three DDG 1000 class vessels. In addition to the USS Zumwalt, the USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001) is also home-ported in San Diego and is undergoing combat systems activation. The third and final ship of the class, the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG 1002), is under construction at Bath Iron Works in Maine.

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/news/ge-powers-us-navys-1st-full-electric-power-and-propulsion-ship

[David - WI]

A lot of misinformation about EV's in this thread. I have driven my Tesla on some 900 mile trips. The most I paid for a Supercharge was about $25. Charging at home is much cheaper. The charging takes about 25-30 min at a supercharger. It does add some time to the trip but it is not the worst. 99% of the use of the car is local. It is cheap to drive, it is really fast and the maintenance is low. No oil changes, brakes last well over 100,000 miles as the car generator charges the car as it slows it down. The grid can handle as much as 80% of the cars on the road being EV. It is the future of the auto market. Look at what direction the auto manufactures are going.

California is warning of blackouts this week... charging electric vehicles is one of the things they are asking people NOT to do, along with setting their AC to 78* and avoiding dishwasher use, etc.

It does not appear that the electrical grid in the state with the highest EV usage is anywhere near capable of supporting more EV's.


Hoping to avoid blackouts, the California Independent System Operator, which manages the state’s power grid, warned Tuesday that it probably will issue a series of Flex Alerts (https://www.flexalert.org/) over the next several days. Flex Alerts are voluntary calls for conservation during the afternoon and evening hours, when energy use tends to soar. Residents will be asked to turn up their thermostats to 78 degrees or higher, avoid using dishwashers or other large appliances, and hold off on charging their electric vehicles, all during the 4-9 p.m. time frame.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/california-grid-officials-ready-to-ask-for-conservation-as-extreme-heat-wave-approaches/ar-AA11iiB4

[powerabout]

Lot of the greenie sailboats are using electric motors. They found that on the open ocean when there’s no wind that they are stuck. In theory it’s viable. In reality it can be downright dangerous when there’s a reef and no wind. But the batteries are too flat to beat the current.

many have been removed and replaced with std diesels.
The electric will get you out of the marina and thats it.
Some are doing direct coupled hybrid, allows you to tell your greenie friends you have electric drive but you cross oceans on diesel.
There are a very small market of very expensive carbon catamarans that have such a high sailing performance they can regen while sailing.
They can actually cruise all electric and if you sail everyday dont require any gen set.
To get that you are paying in excess of double for a conventional cat of the same size.

Diesel electric like a loco is on many icebreakers as you get very good control.
There are some offshore vessels, rig supply, that are DE, it allows for a boat load of gen sets to start and stop on demand.
This allows the diesel to run at optimum load hence more fuel efficient, cheaper and cleaner to run, but at much highr cost to build.
For some dynamic positioned vessels they have added huge batteries, like 3mw, to support instant load but at huge costs.
It all works in theory but battery tech needs to improve 50x to compete if we take emissions out of the equation.

[CUDA]

The answer IS

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wyoming/articles/2022-01-18/in-tiny-wyoming-town-bill-gates-bets-big-on-nuclear-power

[XstreamVking]

It’s easy to prove that ev’s are a bad idea for the general population to use for transportation. The mere fact of hydrogen being the most abundant element in our world is the obvious answer. We should focus on its production at low cost and using green technology to produce it.

[wettek]

But you said electric motors have 25 years more development time and they aren't there yet, so I show you a little motor that's to be used by our Navy and you talk about diesel? what about nuclear as in subs, aircraft carriers ?

Our first nuclear sub came out in 1955, 67 years ago,

49,000 HP not bad for a motor the size of a van, show me one IC motor 1/2 that power... Please.

1/4 that power a 10th ?

and no mantaince;)

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/sites/default/files/styles/resource_banner/public/2022-01/620x348_Navy.jpg?itok=urJB1n5z


The US Navy’s first full-electric power and propulsion surface combatant, the USS Zumwalt, has been delivered to the US Navy.
The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, survivability, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable.
As the top integrated electric power and propulsion provider to navies around the world, GE leveraged proven technologies for its innovative full-electric propulsion system and will continue to build on those innovations going forward.

The US Navy has taken delivery of the USS Zumwalt, its first full-electric power and propulsion ship. GE’s Power Conversion business (NYSE:GE) was the designer and provider for the high-voltage system (HV), propulsion drive trains consisting of multiphase converters and Advanced Induction Motors (AIM) (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) for the DDG 1000 class of futuristic destroyers.
“Delivery is an important milestone for the Navy, as the DDG 1000 continues more advanced at-sea testing of the Zumwalt Combat System,” Capt. Kevin Smith, DDG 1000 program manager, said in a Navy statement -”The combat test team, consisting of the DDG 1000 sailors, Raytheon engineers, and Navy field activity teams, have worked diligently to get USS Zumwalt ready for more complex, multi-mission at-sea testing.”
With delivery, the USS Zumwalt continues to execute missions for the US Navy.[/COLOR]
]Power where it’s needed
For navies around the globe, power and energy are mission enablers, according to Kevin Byrne, who leads the North American marine segment for GE’s Power Conversion business. “Because electric power is needed for various operations and mission systems in parallel, this full-electric power and propulsion ship has the flexibility to direct energy where it is needed on the platform,” he said.
]The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable for containment and isolation.
]Employing GE’s innovative and Integrated Power System (IPS), the DDG 1000 has the capacity to distribute electricity across the entire ship, allowing for enhanced power flexibility for various operational requirements.
Both of GE’s drive trains have two electric motors in tandem. VDM25000 power converters (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000) with three independent channels accompany the 15-phase AIM. Each motor drive train can operate on 5, 10, or 15 phases. This provides high redundancy and is more economical when running at lower power. GE’s AIM drive train (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) was selected to meet the requirements of the ZUMWALT Class Destroyer.
]Compact enough for combatant ships and powerful enough for an aircraft carrier, AIM technology has demonstrated its performance over more than two decades on land and at sea for mechanical strength, robustness, very low maintenance, and naval performance requirements. For the full-electric propulsion system, GE leveraged its proven technologies, building from the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) land-based test site and its own Marine Power Test Facility in the UK, alongside the UK Royal Navy Type 45 program (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/case-study/type-45-destroyer-daring-class-worlds-first-full-electric-propulsion-combatant-ship), Byrne explained. “The US Navy gets benefits from our other platforms that we then could apply to the DDG 1000 and future platforms.”
With 72 MW of propulsion power, GE’s Integrated Full Electric Propulsion (IFEP) system comprises all shipboard electrical power generation and propulsion including the propulsion motor, VDM25000 variable speed drives (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000), switchboards, and HV equipment. Offering improved efficiency, the electric drive eliminates the need for the drive shaft and reduction gears and brings benefits in acoustic signature reduction, an increase in available power for operational requirements and improvements in the quality of life for crew. The all-electric propulsion of Zumwalt also generates additional reserved power, allowing the integration of future high-energy defense systems and sensors.
]Recognizing that navies were demanding more energy amidst space constraints, GE has been developing its full-electric propulsion system for decades, Byrne said. With more than 100 electric and hybrid references with 15 navies globally, GE is the top electric propulsion provider to navies around the world.
]Since 2007, GE has been the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for HV system, installation, commissioning and servicing for the US Navy’s three DDG 1000 class vessels. In addition to the USS Zumwalt, the USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001) is also home-ported in San Diego and is undergoing combat systems activation. The third and final ship of the class, the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG 1002), is under construction at Bath Iron Works in Maine.

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/news/ge-powers-us-navys-1st-full-electric-power-and-propulsion-ship


Hate to burst your electric dream bubble, but all the electricity is being generated by 2 Rolls Royce gas turbines........

[CUDA]

Yes I read

with a electric motor turning the prop.

[XstreamVking]

What’s the “half. Life” of the spent fission materials again? A thousand years of radioactive materials containment that cannot be safely discarded or neutralized? And once again the raw materials to produce it come from where? Basically using the same destructive means as the lithium for batteries? What’s the biggest fear of nuclear? Natural disasters causing Contamination or it being sabotaged and released into the environment?

[Noah Burns]

I brought up diesels because that is what powers most of those electric motors in big ships. The military one you posted, I have no idea as I have not looked into it at all but it must at the least be self sustaining if they are trusting just electric power to run that ship.

Nuclear is a great option but not even a part of this discussion about electric.


But you said electric motors have 25 years more development time and they aren't there yet, so I show you a little motor that's to be used by our Navy and you talk about diesel? what about nuclear as in subs, aircraft carriers ?

Our first nuclear sub came out in 1955, 67 years ago,

49,000 HP not bad for a motor the size of a van, show me one IC motor 1/2 that power... Please.

1/4 that power a 10th ?

and no mantaince;)

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/sites/default/files/styles/resource_banner/public/2022-01/620x348_Navy.jpg?itok=urJB1n5z


The US Navy’s first full-electric power and propulsion surface combatant, the USS Zumwalt, has been delivered to the US Navy.
The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, survivability, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable.
As the top integrated electric power and propulsion provider to navies around the world, GE leveraged proven technologies for its innovative full-electric propulsion system and will continue to build on those innovations going forward.

The US Navy has taken delivery of the USS Zumwalt, its first full-electric power and propulsion ship. GE’s Power Conversion business (NYSE:GE) was the designer and provider for the high-voltage system (HV), propulsion drive trains consisting of multiphase converters and Advanced Induction Motors (AIM) (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) for the DDG 1000 class of futuristic destroyers.
“Delivery is an important milestone for the Navy, as the DDG 1000 continues more advanced at-sea testing of the Zumwalt Combat System,” Capt. Kevin Smith, DDG 1000 program manager, said in a Navy statement -”The combat test team, consisting of the DDG 1000 sailors, Raytheon engineers, and Navy field activity teams, have worked diligently to get USS Zumwalt ready for more complex, multi-mission at-sea testing.”
With delivery, the USS Zumwalt continues to execute missions for the US Navy.[/COLOR]
]Power where it’s needed
For navies around the globe, power and energy are mission enablers, according to Kevin Byrne, who leads the North American marine segment for GE’s Power Conversion business. “Because electric power is needed for various operations and mission systems in parallel, this full-electric power and propulsion ship has the flexibility to direct energy where it is needed on the platform,” he said.
]The electric propulsion solution delivers efficiency, cost-of-ownership reductions, and system redundancy for enhanced vessel safety. In addition, machinery layout is more flexible and configurable for containment and isolation.
]Employing GE’s innovative and Integrated Power System (IPS), the DDG 1000 has the capacity to distribute electricity across the entire ship, allowing for enhanced power flexibility for various operational requirements.
Both of GE’s drive trains have two electric motors in tandem. VDM25000 power converters (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000) with three independent channels accompany the 15-phase AIM. Each motor drive train can operate on 5, 10, or 15 phases. This provides high redundancy and is more economical when running at lower power. GE’s AIM drive train (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/induction-motors/Advanced-Induction-Motor-AIM) was selected to meet the requirements of the ZUMWALT Class Destroyer.
]Compact enough for combatant ships and powerful enough for an aircraft carrier, AIM technology has demonstrated its performance over more than two decades on land and at sea for mechanical strength, robustness, very low maintenance, and naval performance requirements. For the full-electric propulsion system, GE leveraged its proven technologies, building from the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) land-based test site and its own Marine Power Test Facility in the UK, alongside the UK Royal Navy Type 45 program (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/case-study/type-45-destroyer-daring-class-worlds-first-full-electric-propulsion-combatant-ship), Byrne explained. “The US Navy gets benefits from our other platforms that we then could apply to the DDG 1000 and future platforms.”
With 72 MW of propulsion power, GE’s Integrated Full Electric Propulsion (IFEP) system comprises all shipboard electrical power generation and propulsion including the propulsion motor, VDM25000 variable speed drives (https://www.gepowerconversion.com/product-solutions/medium-voltage-drives/VDM25000), switchboards, and HV equipment. Offering improved efficiency, the electric drive eliminates the need for the drive shaft and reduction gears and brings benefits in acoustic signature reduction, an increase in available power for operational requirements and improvements in the quality of life for crew. The all-electric propulsion of Zumwalt also generates additional reserved power, allowing the integration of future high-energy defense systems and sensors.
]Recognizing that navies were demanding more energy amidst space constraints, GE has been developing its full-electric propulsion system for decades, Byrne said. With more than 100 electric and hybrid references with 15 navies globally, GE is the top electric propulsion provider to navies around the world.
]Since 2007, GE has been the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for HV system, installation, commissioning and servicing for the US Navy’s three DDG 1000 class vessels. In addition to the USS Zumwalt, the USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001) is also home-ported in San Diego and is undergoing combat systems activation. The third and final ship of the class, the future USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG 1002), is under construction at Bath Iron Works in Maine.

https://www.gepowerconversion.com/news/ge-powers-us-navys-1st-full-electric-power-and-propulsion-ship

[Noah Burns]

you do realize your "electric is better" argument is null when that electric is provided by IC engines don't you?


Yes I read

with a electric motor turning the prop.

[wettek]

Yes I read

with a electric motor turning the prop.

Big deal. There are lots of ships running around the world that have electric motors driving propellers, a lot of them a hell of a lot bigger than this. They all use fossil fuels to run their generators to provide the electricity. Diesel, gas turbine, boilers to drive steam turbines, all to turn generators, whatever, they still use fossil fuels to make that electricity.

[Swabby]

As a blow boater electric motors have been in use for decades, number one problem is as always cost. The "best" setup as far as Im concerned is a controllable pitch prop coupled to an electric motor capable of moving the boat at hull speed and small diesel motor. When sailing the prop can be adjusted to turn the motor using it as a generator delivering power to run refrigeration and electronics. There is enough battery power for maneuvering where it would be handy to have the option of torque generated by the electric at an instant. For long distances when the load may be great the generator is run allowing for most economical cruising. As an added benefit the diesel could then be placed where the weight is most efficient. This is simply a hybrid, when you cruise and are trying to generate power using wind and sun you quickly realize just how lacking the claims for panels and wind are to provide enough power to run say an autopilot and refrigeration.

Anybody ever notice how one of these generators for the charging stations is larger than most generators that would be required to run a house?

I will keep my combustion vehicles and if necessary build a wood gasifier and operate a hydrogen generator, effectively allowing me to run without a gas station.

Typically a motor is electric (general electric) and an engine is combustion. Why then do we have General Motors making cars and not General Engines?

[CUDA]

I believe Laser IS going to stop many threats in the future

once again the need for electric,

The Future IS Electric

https://youtu.be/XKwRI9CmCBM

[Brad Zastrow]

When Mercedes came out with the first Automobile, I bet everyone on a horse said the car will never replace a good horse. This conversation is on par with 4 stroke outboards vs 2 stroke. Entertaining. Science marches forward.

[XstreamVking]

The future is electric huh? What happens when the rare earth materials become scarce. And too expense to make it feasible to make batteries? Lot of people are just short sighted on the production of and the cost of electric. Just the loss of efficiency thru charging the batteries is a deal killer. Something like 13 per cent loss from the power source to the battery. You need to educate yourself.

[powerabout]

I brought up diesels because that is what powers most of those electric motors in big ships. The military one you posted, I have no idea as I have not looked into it at all but it must at the least be self sustaining if they are trusting just electric power to run that ship.

Nuclear is a great option but not even a part of this discussion about electric.
Re the Zumwalt,
I thought the sides are flat for the solar panels? lol

[CUDA]

Don't worry Grasshopper

The industry is WAY ahead of you

many new technology's on the horizon, everything will work out just fine

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/myth-and-reality-alternatives-rare-minerals-ev-batteries
University of Texas at Austin researchers have created a new sodium-based battery material that is highly stable, capable of recharging as quickly as a traditional lithium-ion battery and able to pave the way toward delivering more energy than current battery technologies.
For about a decade, scientists and engineers have been developing sodium batteries, which replace both lithium and cobalt used in current lithium-ion batteries with cheaper, more environmentally friendly sodium. Unfortunately, in earlier sodium batteries, a component called the anode would tend to grow needle-like filaments called dendrites that can cause the battery to electrically short and even catch fire or explode.
In one of two recent sodium battery advances (https://news.utexas.edu/2021/12/06/battery-dream-technology-a-step-closer-to-reality-with-new-discovery/) from UT Austin, the new material solves the dendrite problem and recharges as quickly as a lithium-ion battery. The team published their results in the journal Advanced Materials (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202106005).
“We’re essentially solving two problems at once,” said David Mitlin (https://www.me.utexas.edu/people/faculty-directory/mitlin), a professor in the Cockrell School of Engineering’s Walker Department of Mechanical Engineering and Applied Research Laboratory who designed the new material. “Typically, the faster you charge, the more of these dendrites you grow. So if you suppress dendrite growth, you can charge and discharge faster, because all of a sudden it’s safe.”
Graeme Henkelman (https://cns.utexas.edu/component/cobalt/item/12-chemistry/122-henkelman-graeme-a?Itemid=349), a professor in the Department of Chemistry and the Oden Institute for Computational Engineering and Sciences (https://oden.utexas.edu/), used a computer model to explain, from a theoretical perspective, why the material has the unique properties it does.
“This material is also exciting because the sodium metal anode theoretically has the highest energy density of any sodium anode,” Henkelman said.
Demand is rising for stationary energy storage systems for homes and for smoothing out the ebb and flow of wind and solar energy on electric grids. At the same time, lithium mining has been criticized for its environmental impacts (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact), including heavy groundwater use, soil and water pollution and carbon emissions. Lithium-ion batteries typically also use cobalt, which is expensive and mined mostly in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where it has significant impacts on human health and the environment (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/climate/electric-vehicles-environment.html). By comparison, sodium mining is cheaper and more environmentally friendly.
Mitlin is bullish on the idea that this new innovation and others from UT Austin, including a new solid electrolyte that boosts energy storage (https://scholar.google.ca/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=hS5K8A8AAAAJ&sortby=pubdate&citation_for_view=hS5K8A8AAAAJ:7wO8s98CvbsC), will mean sodium batteries may soon be able to fill the growing demand for stationary energy storage.
When a rechargeable battery is being charged, ions (such as lithium or sodium) move from one component called the cathode to another called the anode. When the battery is being used to generate electricity, the ions move from the anode back to the cathode.
The new anode material, called sodium antimony telluride intermetallic – Na metal composite (NST-Na), is made by rolling a thin sheet of sodium metal onto an antimony telluride powder, folding it over on itself, and repeating many times.
“Think of making a kind of layered pastry, like spanakopita,” Mitlin said.
This process results in a very uniform distribution of sodium atoms that makes it less likely to form dendrites or surface corrosion than existing sodium metal anodes. That makes the battery more stable and allows faster charging, comparable to a lithium-ion battery’s charge rate. It also has a higher energy capacity than existing sodium-ion batteries.
Henkelman said that if the sodium atoms that carry a charge in a sodium battery bind more strongly to each other than they do to the anode, they tend to form instabilities, or clumps of sodium that attract more sodium atoms and eventually lead to dendrites. He used a computer simulation to reveal what happens when individual sodium atoms interact with the new composite material NST-Na.
“In our calculations, this composite binds sodium a little more strongly than sodium binds itself, which is the ideal case for having the sodium atoms come down and evenly spread out on the surface and prevent these instabilities from forming,” Henkelman said.
The study’s two lead authors Yixian Wang and Hui Dong — current and former graduate students in Mitlin’s lab respectively — fabricated the material. Colleagues at Los Alamos National Laboratory led by John Watt characterized its properties. The study’s other authors are Hongchang Hao, Pengcheng Liu and Naman Katyal of UT Austin.
Mitlin, Wang and Dong have applied for a patent, along with UT Austin, on the new sodium metal anode material’s fabrication, structure and functionality.
This research was made possible by support from the National Science Foundation and The Welch Foundation.
https://news.utexas.edu/2021/12/06/sodium-based-material-yields-stable-alternative-to-lithium-ion-batteries/#:~:text=For%20about%20a%20decade%2C%20scientists,cheaper%2C%20more%20environmentally%20friendly%20s odium.


The rail guns never worked out, they will install Laser in place.

Now with Hypersonic missiles the only thing to stop them is the speed of light, Laser with a computer controlling it.

[boostalmighty]

When Mercedes came out with the first Automobile, I bet everyone on a horse said the car will never replace a good horse. This conversation is on par with 4 stroke outboards vs 2 stroke. Entertaining. Science marches forward.


the difference is that transition was organic, not a bunch of know nothing beurorcats forcing what they think it should be on the industry.

[powerabout]

Don't worry Grasshopper

The industry is WAY ahead of you

many new technology's on the horizon, everything will work out just fine

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/myth-and-reality-alternatives-rare-minerals-ev-batteries

https://news.utexas.edu/2021/12/06/sodium-based-material-yields-stable-alternative-to-lithium-ion-batteries/#:~:text=For%20about%20a%20decade%2C%20scientists,cheaper%2C%20more%20environmentally%20friendly%20s odium.

tell that to Germany, the same guys that laughed at Trump saying dont put all your eggs in green and Russian gas, whose laughing now.

[CUDA]

Really...


Tesla is already using cobalt-free LFP batteries in half of its new cars produced. Tesla confirmed that nearly half of all its vehicles produced last quarter are already using cobalt-free iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries.Apr 22, 2022


https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2022/04/13/cobalt-free-lithium-ion-auto-batteries/1731649255014/

[Brad Zastrow]

Why are you guys so fiercely defending your ICE cars? I guess you like paying up the nose for fuel and supporting Russia and the middle east. Have you ever driven an EV? They are all not Tesla expensive. Starting prices are $25k for some manufacturers. Wouldn't you like to drive a car the gets the equivalent of 125 MPG and is fast as a Corvette? There will always be a place for gas and diesel autos for a long time. I am just saying the world is changing and for most driving the EV's make a lot of sense.

[Shaun K]

I wanted to apologize if I offended anybody by drifting off topic here. It should have remained about the electric powered cat & record holder. I would have a beer with anybody regardless of beliefs.

[XstreamVking]

I have only ridden and driven in the P90D. Not the newest fastest or the best range . It is an impressive car. The one I rode in has been picked up for some recalls and fixes. Fair build quality I would say. Neighbor likes it but he would be the first to say it’s not going to replace his other ice cars.

[CUDA]

It's here now just has to be scaled up, with the bill that was just passed they will have the funding $ to get big fast...

Good stock to buy:D

https://youtu.be/W_yqJS7OZQE

https://youtu.be/H-AjRrGglCE

[XstreamVking]

How’s that new Tesla truck drive cuda? You pre ordered two years ago right?

[John S]

I would have a beer with anybody regardless of beliefs.

That's really what this should all be aboot. There have been a lot of posts for/against EV that I respect. It's not an all or nothing game. Every single power source has its plusses and minuses. It's when the political bs comes in that it inevitably becomes a **** throwing contest. I work in electrical construction, and enjoy both ICE and EV tech. Subject doesn't have to stay with exact OP topic, as all threads move around. But really, we should all just keep it to light hearted back and forth banter, preferably with links. The grid conversation is a lot more complicated than some understand. EV's are just one part of it that has to be solved, and some **** all smart people are at work on it as we speak.

And it looks like Toyota is more on the bandwagon that first thought. They are some sneaky f'ers.:D

Electrek.co: Toyota changes tune on EV demand, triples funding for US battery plant.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/31/toyota-changes-tune-evs-triples-funding-us-battery-plant/

[CUDA]

How’s that new Tesla truck drive cuda? You pre ordered two years ago right?

They are sticking all the batteries in the model Y, they can't scale up battery production to supply the models they all ready produce

That's why the semi is backed up also can't make enough batteries fast enough, new factories going up to make them, Tesla has made

over 3 million cars so far.

Over 1 million in China alone, The German plant is just cranking up, Texas just came on line in April, looking to make 2 million cars in one year.

[CUDA]

Big deal. There are lots of ships running around the world that have electric motors driving propellers, a lot of them a hell of a lot bigger than this. They all use fossil fuels to run their generators to provide the electricity. Diesel, gas turbine, boilers to drive steam turbines, all to turn generators, whatever, they still use fossil fuels to make that electricity.


60 years no problems

https://youtu.be/I0VWh-Ctq3w

https://youtu.be/rTGL6TAvwcU

[wettek]

I guess if it's on YouTube it must be unbiased and factual.

[Chaz]

I'll bet that the hold out's that wanted to ride a horse, instead of a horseless cartage ... didn't have a left-tard corrupt administration threatening to ban the sale of oats.

No, they waited until roads were made better, fuel became available from coast to coast and vehicle reliability overcame the time, money and effort of riding a horse.

Just basic common sense stuff.

The idea of .. hey Trump showed us that we could be energy independent, that the price of gas was would continue to come down, that we didn't need or want to import poison from china .. was just too much for some to handle.

Gabby Newscum stated that no new gas vehicles would be allowed for sale in California in ten years .. while at the same time the California energy commissioner warned not to charge electric vehicles or to run AC's below 78*, not use water heaters or ovens. Honestly, you just can't make up stupidity .. that's worse than that.

I paid $17,000 for my truck. It starts and runs good every day. Easily cruises 10 over the speed limit .. anywhere. in the country. Pulled two different boats to the keys multiple times ..

My ego would need to be big as a house .. or I would need to be a special kind of stupid to sell / trade it in on it's $150,000 replacement.

Ten week from now .. stop the steal / flush the swamp / stop the idiots from ruining this country .. pressuring the world. Send them packin .. so we can get back to being great again !

Chaz = thinkin, if you have a electric motor the size of a van .. your gonna need a battery the size of a C-130 to run it .. but then, only a fool would think that's a good idea .. :rolleyes:

Seventy years later .. same junk, same issue ... :cool:

Une Zeta .. battery iz fookin dead .. ine zo are vee .. Dunkoff's .. :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVzTd5KiUgw

[noli]

.



I think that in 10 years, we'll have new technology to hold energy for our home/electric vehicle needs where we won't need to connect to the grid (same idea as mainframes computers to PC's to handheld computers, yes our cell phone)

currently it looks like this ..


509363




in 10 years? might look like this ..


509364

[noli]

.


the funny thing about technology whether its energy storage or electric motor technology ... is that although we don't know what us humans will design in the near future , us humans can draw a graph based on historical data and be able to predict (quite accurately) what will be in the not so distant future ..

here is a forward looking graph into the future of our ability to increase energy storage installations which holds higher energy density

today the number of installations equate to under 25 gigawatts of power .. by 2030 we'll be in the 350 gigawatts of energy installations holding stored energy

509367

[Noah Burns]

Well, see... before the buffon in DC was elected we weren't paying up the nose, nor was anything fuel related supporting Russia. I'm curious, have you ever looked into where the materials for those EV batteries comes from? Not exactly American made. I've driven an ev on several occasions and they drive fine just like any other car, it's funny you say as fast as a corvette because if you drive them hard, they get next to no range at all, their worst selling point some would say. I also agree that for most people an ev would make sense for their daily commute, the vehicles aren't my issue, it is the way it is being done and the fact that our power grid can't even keep up with what we have sucking energy now, adding thousands if not millions of ev to that pull will just not work.


Why are you guys so fiercely defending your ICE cars? I guess you like paying up the nose for fuel and supporting Russia and the middle east. Have you ever driven an EV? They are all not Tesla expensive. Starting prices are $25k for some manufacturers. Wouldn't you like to drive a car the gets the equivalent of 125 MPG and is fast as a Corvette? There will always be a place for gas and diesel autos for a long time. I am just saying the world is changing and for most driving the EV's make a lot of sense.

[Swabby]

Unfortunately these days you can't just sit down and have a beer with somebody because people have come to believe they are better and must force their beliefs on you whether it is thru a govt or something as stupid as a home owners association. For them the time of live and let live has passed. Electric cars/boats are a perfect example rather than simply let people be they choose to create laws forcing you to get rid of that 2 stroke (lakes etc) or not offer a combustion engine for sale.

When cars first came along there were many trials that they faced working to prove it was a viable reliable vehicle. These trials were not regulated by the govt but competition between manufactures to see who could build the best most reliable vehicle. The same was true for shipping as steam was developed to be replaced by diesel. The first steamship to sail across the Atlantic ended up burning much of the ship in order to make it! Could you imagine an electric car race (passenger not off road vehicles) essentially off road in winter from NY to Paris (ferried from AK to Russia)? Currently electric boats are a novelty, they need to compete against each other in ways that no combustion powered boat could begin to just as the automobile replaced the horse and steam replaced sail.

[David]

if you drive them hard, they get next to no range at all.

As it turns out my 200XS ROS can burn fuel in a hurry at top speed.

[Noah Burns]

I'd wager your range is better than any electric boat... and if you are in the middle of the lake and happen to run out of fuel, someone can bring you some or if you carry it with you, just refill that bad boy... you think you will/would/could have the same luxury with an electric outboard?


As it turns out my 200XS ROS can burn fuel in a hurry at top speed.

[David]

I don't think electric boats make any sense for me yet. I have an SS2000 and our family has a J Craft for skiing. Both have direct injected two strokes. I think that's the best technology for outboards, but I am done with shouting at clouds. The world has gone 4 stroke. Get over it, or give it a rest.

For cars, it takes more energy to make an electric car, but the overall life balance is much better for the electric car. Few of us use our boats enough to shift the lifetime balance to electric. And the battery weight penalty is a lot more severe in a boat then in a car. This below reviews energy to make a car, and emissions from mining and oil production. The winner for cars is electric. Boats are not discussed, but given a hundred hours of use a year, it would take more than my lifetime to shift the boat balance to electric.

Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? Myth Busted - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM)

[Brad Zastrow]

So much of what is stated is not true. Google "why are gas prices high". Do you drive a Corvette WOT all the time? NO. But it nice to know it is capable of some real fun when you price the throttle. Same as the EV. Also Google "can the electric grid handle EV's". I say again EV are not for all people, just do not state an opinion you have as a fact like so many news shows lately.



Well, see... before the buffon in DC was elected we weren't paying up the nose, nor was anything fuel related supporting Russia. I'm curious, have you ever looked into where the materials for those EV batteries comes from? Not exactly American made. I've driven an ev on several occasions and they drive fine just like any other car, it's funny you say as fast as a corvette because if you drive them hard, they get next to no range at all, their worst selling point some would say. I also agree that for most people an ev would make sense for their daily commute, the vehicles aren't my issue, it is the way it is being done and the fact that our power grid can't even keep up with what we have sucking energy now, adding thousands if not millions of ev to that pull will just not work.

[Noah Burns]

I have no problem with the four stroke outboards, wish I had a need for one because they're really impressive engines.



I don't think electric boats make any sense for me yet. I have an SS2000 and our family has a J Craft for skiing. Both have direct injected two strokes. I think that's the best technology for outboards, but I am done with shouting at clouds. The world has gone 4 stroke. Get over it, or give it a rest.

For cars, it takes more energy to make an electric car, but the overall life balance is much better for the electric car. Few of us use our boats enough to shift the lifetime balance to electric. And the battery weight penalty is a lot more severe in a boat then in a car. This below reviews energy to make a car, and emissions from mining and oil production. The winner for cars is electric. Boats are not discussed, but given a hundred hours of use a year, it would take more than my lifetime to shift the boat balance to electric.

Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? Myth Busted - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM)

[Noah Burns]

We agree, they are not for all people, and I have googled "can the grid blah blah blah" and you get any answer you want. California is currently experiencing rolling blackouts with the current load on the current grid, in Texas we had the same thing earlier this summer... you think adding a couple million ev to the mix will help things? Get real.


So much of what is stated is not true. Google "why are gas prices high". Do you drive a Corvette WOT all the time? NO. But it nice to know it is capable of some real fun when you price the throttle. Same as the EV. Also Google "can the electric grid handle EV's". I say again EV are not for all people, just do not state an opinion you have as a fact like so many news shows lately.

[Swabby]

This below reviews energy to make a car, and emissions from mining and oil production. The winner for cars is electric. Boats are not discussed

The winner is a car built to last regardless. Right now we have throw away cars and boats, after 1 or 2 decades how good is it still? If people want to be good to the environment they should buy to last not buy to be new. Do you really see an electric boat or car being "good" after 10, 20, 50 , 100 years old?

Of course building to last insures car and boat manufactures build themselves out of a business and there is no money in that . . .

[David - WI]

So much of what is stated is not true. Google "why are gas prices high". Do you drive a Corvette WOT all the time? NO. But it nice to know it is capable of some real fun when you price the throttle. Same as the EV. Also Google "can the electric grid handle EV's". I say again EV are not for all people, just do not state an opinion you have as a fact like so many news shows lately.

California (highest EV ownership in US) is literally telling people NOT to charge their cars when they get home from work because the electrical grid cannot handle the load with only about 2% of the cars on their roads right now being electric.

Also, European electric power futures hit $0.99 per kwh this week due to their heavy push for "green energy" and high demand (including increased EV charging)... meaning when that happens here your $25 900-mile trip will cost $125 - which is more than a gasoline truck will cost once the "Joe Biden" gasoline war ends and gas goes back under $3/gallon.

Soon you will also pay some sort of "road tax" to offset the loss of gas tax revenue needed for road maintenance & construction... so make that $150 (add $0.025/mile) for that 900-mile trip.

If EV's made economic sense right now the government wouldn't be subsidizing manufactures with artificial "carbon credits" that they sell to offset losses, subsidizing owners with tax rebates and no road use tax, and subsidizing power companies with massive incentives for using "green energy" to meet the increased demand. If any of it made sense people would be doing it for the economic gain, not the tax incentives.

All of the cost of ownership calculations on based on assumptions that will no longer be true once EV's are widely adopted (energy cost, road tax, tax incentives, etc).


https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/experts-blame-green-energy-europes-full-scale-energy-crisis-warning-us
https://getjerry.com/insights/california-most-electric-cars-not-best-place-to-own

[XstreamVking]

Do not argue with the four stroke and electric guys. They will tell us what to do and apparently we will have no choice in the matter. Hey, it’s for our own good so they say, and it doesn’t matter if you give them solid facts and figures. As long as they sell gas I will drive my hybrids that burn gas oil and rubber.

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

Since we've strayed off topic, I'll add this, as long as you don't tow.......


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https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/

[Chaz]

Noli ,,,

Thanks for showing us what charging stations look like today. As well as "speculate" on what they "MIGHT" look like in ten years.
Pretty irresponsible to start killing off oil and gas industries on January 2021 on a .... "maybe" in 2032 .. Ehh :rolleyes:

The tard left want's their cake and eat it too ... (makes perfect sense that this is Piglosi's son-in-law)

https://i.imgur.com/zOCtvvrl.jpg

Lets see what the worlds leading authority on EV's thinks about this rush to be china powered ... ;)

https://i.imgur.com/P0cxHnTl.jpg

[noli]

.



Chaz, apologies, I really dislike talking about politics on public boards


I do like watching Torrente break speed records on electric boats though

:cheers:

yeah baby!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5B5DzQoqYo







.

[CUDA]

https://youtu.be/PiwK6XdZDjM

[powerabout]

Electric cars make sense in cities especially pollution wise, they are made and powered out of town.
Assuming you have a garage to charge them but what happens to apt living?

[Swabby]

Electric cars can make sense for city commuting but then so does mass transit . . .

[noli]

.

Elon Musk limited the creation of charging stations for Tesla cars to be made by non-Tesla companies


That has changed...he now allows the creation of Tesla charging stations by non-Tesla organizations and to allow a charging fee

This will open up charging stations to apartment complexes and the like..to cover the cost of building the charging station and possibly to allow a small profit to be made


.

[powerabout]

.

Elon Musk limited the creation of charging stations for Tesla cars to be made by non-Tesla companies


That has changed...he now allows the creation of Tesla charging stations by non-Tesla organizations and to allow a charging fee

This will open up charging stations to apartment complexes and the like..to cover the cost of building the charging station and possibly to allow a small profit to be made


.

problem with apt living is every carpark needs a charging point.

[noli]

.


Some great news!

I just found out that Tesla has a Commercial Host plan for homes and business

Care to make a profit from charging Tesla vehicles from your home or business?


https://link.tesla.com/ls/click?upn=Q85ANUv7ZhNctIdur0dsH-2FLlfiwA81YY0pIVvvdEDWdVbIrnQ-2FdBjC2jZWmTDR9Cc4A2WSWTwVB6tiU0lIhREQ-3D-3DfBA-_l9iiXx9ZsaMPNBv3Ij8Pnyrga-2BcffqiZSWF991A-2BL7ln1iXUW-2Bsm6NeWm2XVUSh-2Bmh9quJQOKS2EnFbtNniMramjX-2F9q1hTr5dm8eglT4Gic-2B3KfSfsYpQEjpv883WvCocfKpMyhHqmbwg-2FIGItS0sufSL-2F5znIVkZ2fqeHGyuBDeViPCIkokSI3e1Hs2bZh4KMr4LTowioSvHctd1NrBXwr0dCUjKvKkw5qT5xdWq4OHi8Pg8d5f6jPjhVFo jMO-2FwAUHQB1ONPcvT55UWi-2FaUKPnjxa5rTYrMbPs1L2GK0m9ifTDZN6Th5IlVBZSyJps0WjnMmL8TCkBPgkDGUSpctnVPzmN9dTzBV8MBXgnbIOIGjiNarRcR C3Mg5SskrR78D8hQnrHA2c-2B79YvP4oxHLLB2jyyorCdXh0UfSENddp-2FmT9N0Y8SEHN9kj3oP9rDqOPX3yZbQulyKWC5wAfNTXdiu5Rqhr61oRUD5PuvL83ZBrmzJdDn3iXzr6UyT3O8IKcAm1zlO1SNAh 6da9kCg-3D-3D




.

[JLanier571]

You guys are all stuck on Tesla, while ignoring that all the other major manufacturers, Dodge included who took the longest, have already committed to fully manufacturing EVs past a certain date. That's all that's needed for capitalism to do its thing. Electrify America and its competitors will build more DC Fast charging stations than we will know what to do with.

[Chaz]

When the 300r porkchop first came out, there were no less than a half a dozen threads about the same motor, saying the same thing.

Do we need two threads .. on electric outboards .. ???

American Ethanol cracks 200+ and barely a blip on the radar screen ... :o

But a state of the art .. 32' cat with a pair of thirty seconds at a time electric egg-beaters goes 104 and 107 .. and it's earth shattering news.

Garlets went 180 mph six - seven years ago in an electric dragster .. so it's not really new, news.

Six - seven years ago .. the push to electric .. only reason I can think of is the Obuma / Dimbiden years. So , like it or not .. it is political.

I'll throw a little religion in here too .. :D The good book says .. there is nothing new under the sun. :smiletest:

Noli .. brother I get it. It fits the video games generation.
But be honest with me. Are you going to buy either a Tesla or an electric outboard powered boat , this year or in 2023 .. ???? :nonod:

Farmer gonna till 2500 acres on one charge up ... ????? :nonod:

I like the idea of mass transit in the big cities. But we all know who runs those cities .. and how they have let mass transit become air conditioned / moving shelters for the dregs's of society .. :cool:

Chaz = grateful, I'm a country boy ... :thumbsup:

[XstreamVking]

As demand for electricity city and charging of busses trucks and cars becomes prevalent the price of the electricity will increase with demand.

[CUDA]

Have you heard about Solar?

:cheers:

[XstreamVking]

You heard about clouds?

[Forkin' Crazy]

You heard about clouds?

Not to mention the length of day and the angle of the sun in winter.

PLUS, you have to keep them clean to be efficient. But liberals are gullible, stupid and have no common sense.

Some of those solar arrays, like the windmills, are harmful to wildlife. But hey, that doesn't matter if you are going green, right?

[CUDA]

Ignorance is bliss

https://youtu.be/wwHjyeyRofM


Do solar panels work in cloudy weather?

Yes, solar panels do work on cloudy days — but not as effectively as they would on a sunny day. Expect them to produce 10-25% of their normal power output, depending on how thick the cloud cover is. But there’s an interesting twist: although they work better on sunny versus cloudy days, solar panels don't work best in particularly hot climates (https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-hot-can-solar-panels-get). In fact, solar panel output begins to fall if the temperature rises above 77 degrees Fahrenheit (25 degrees Celsius).
Because of this, solar panels work better in certain areas than others. For example, even though Las Vegas (https://www.solarreviews.com/solar-panels/las-vegas-nevada) has sunnier and hotter days, solar panels tend to generate more power than in San Francisco (https://www.solarreviews.com/solar-panel-cost/california/san-francisco). SF’s cooler weather keeps the device at an optimum temperature for energy output when the sun is shining.
You might also be surprised to know that solar systems are popular in many famously overcast places, such as in the city with the most cloudy days (https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php) in America, Seattle (https://www.solarreviews.com/solar-panels/solar-panel-cost/cost-of-solar-panels-in-washington/solar-panels-cost-in-king-county/seattle/). The second cloudiest city, Portland, Oregon (https://www.solarreviews.com/solar-panels/portland-oregon) actually ranks among the top cities for solar power in the US. Both cities benefit from long summer days with mild temperatures — ideal conditions for maximum solar production — which helps balance out lower production in the cloudy winter months.
In summary: on cloudy days solar panels do work; just less effectively. But solar panel performance also drops when it is too hot. That being said, solar panels can work and be worth it across a range of different climates.

[JPEROG]

When they staged this boat before the run, it was pulled and positioned by a pontoon. I heard that it was already on deceleration at the end of the course due to charge being drained so hard. I would love to see a 3 mile dash at the lake (turns separate the boat designs for sure).

Joe

[PanRonnie]

What they should do is spoon out those battery's and install 2 of these fuel cells
These are heavy at 170 kilogram but small and robuust for off road use
Call Toyota for some carbon wrapped tanks and you probably have a 400 kilogram 200kw Package that can run all Day and fill up in 10 minutes
It is going to cost a arm and a leg but this was a proof of concept anyway
The best part the boat can be stored without fire hazard

[Chaz]

I've got a novel idea .. :rolleyes:

Lets look the other way while politicians sell our country out to china as they smell and grope tender age children ... :mad:

Maybe we can find a savvy land baron whom is beholding to .. NO ONE , to make America Great Again .. :thumbsup:

Take the yoke off of the gas and oil company's necks .. let them do what they are good at . I could see .50c gasoline in our future.

Send AOC back to slinging beers, and smell testing cow flatulence .. Who's cookin burgers this weekend ..:smiletest:

Honestly .. what kind of idiot threatens you to buy an electric car .. in the middle of brown out season .. :rolleyes:

So the great white dope has to be towed to the staging area .. and fall's on it's face in less than 3/4's of a mile .... :o :o :o

Noli .. you picked out a color yet .... :eek:

:nonod: I didn't think so ... :icon_bs:

[CUDA]

https://media.gettyimages.com/vectors/evolution-of-the-texting-human-vector-id529774419?k=20&m=529774419&s=612x612&w=0&h=EA6zAyUVf-JM0KbYf5lYMUoUl14CTo4mNYn3p2vM2gA=

[Swabby]

The best part the boat can be stored without fire hazard
Seriously?

[PanRonnie]

Seriously?

Yes seriously
You can drain hydrogen tanks empty
But you cannot drain lithium battery's empty
They require a minimum charge but should be stored to 80% charged

[powerabout]

What they should do is spoon out those battery's and install 2 of these fuel cells
These are heavy at 170 kilogram but small and robuust for off road use
Call Toyota for some carbon wrapped tanks and you probably have a 400 kilogram 200kw Package that can run all Day and fill up in 10 minutes
It is going to cost a arm and a leg but this was a proof of concept anyway
The best part the boat can be stored without fire hazard
Hi Pan
hows the cost of power in the NL at the moment?
News is showing in the uk it has gone up 4 x for many

[PanRonnie]

Hi Pan
hows the cost of power in the NL at the moment?
News is showing in the uk it has gone up 4 x for many

currently it is more expensive than filling your car with petrol
they reduced taxes on fuel this summer as the price was EURO 2.50,- per liter
but if we want to isolate putin we are going to have these prices for the next years
so start building those hydrogen generators dammit :mad:

[Swabby]

My bad, I was thinking you were saying storing batteries wouldn't be a fire hazard.

[PanRonnie]

Just imagine all these boats on trickle charge!
Don't know if they remove the fuel when in long term storage

[ebynus]

You guys are all stuck on Tesla, while ignoring that all the other major manufacturers, Dodge included who took the longest, have already committed to fully manufacturing EVs past a certain date. That's all that's needed for capitalism to do its thing. Electrify America and its competitors will build more DC Fast charging stations than we will know what to do with.

Im still waiting on Waynetech…
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DvLg3Rx15qE&feature=share

[Chaz]

Most Marinas require you to call ahead and request that your boat be readied for a day on the water. Quick charge (if no fuel smell) fueled, check oil level .. while it's moved outside to a set of bunks .. when the owner arrives, they dunk it in the water. Never seen 150 extension cords snaked thru the racks .. nor a place to plug them in.

10.00 dollars euro for a gallon of gas ... Aint you guys Vikings ??? You should sail to Russia .. and open up with the 16" Howitzers .. we left there after WW2 ... :thumbsup:

Since cheap gas seems like curse words to the commietards .. :rolleyes:

I think I'll drop a prius on one of the concrete reinforced steel casings out at the nuke plant, grab up a few old fuel rods .. should be good enough to still boil enough water to run my truck for 100 years .. Since no one else seems to look at the big picture of their tard ideas ... why should I ... :p

​FJB

[PanRonnie]

So we had a bit of a accident today

https://nos.nl/l/2443017
And Chaz we like to hug trees before we set them on fire to make electricity to set the grid on fire:cheers:

[Chaz]

Electricity is cheap and safe ... what could go wrong .. :eek:

It's nice to hear that they make the trees all warm and cuddled .. before slaughtering them ... sounds like Herzogenbusch ... :leaving:

[Chaz]

Egor go to the roof .. see what that noise was .... :eek:

https://cdn.exploreplanet3.com/web/student-resources/ECOS/casestudy/ECOS/images/ECOS_CS7_P1.jpg

[Brad Zastrow]

Some of the comments here dive into politics and nonsense. All the auto manufacturers must not have a clue to all the so-called problems with EV's to be switching to many new models that are electric in the very near future. I applaud new technology.

[JPEROG]

Brad,

It's politics that drove the automakers to this decision. Biden declared war against the fossil fuel industry and made demands upon automakers along with bribing U.S. citizens to follow his agenda by giving more money away and throwing cubic dollars at his agenda when you purchase an E.V.. There is no question that electric assist is a move in the right direction (Toyota has proved this to us for the past 25 years). I think, like many things mandated by our employees (Federal Government), that there will be a ton of disappointment for those who own EVs only. They are no question cutting edge, have incredible performance, and are vogue. However, they will need to get to a "true 500 mile range" before there will be one our personal fleet. The new Hummer is great for 150 miles at a time.

Joe

[JLanier571]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/spectrum.ieee.org/amp/lucid-air-ev-500-miles-on-a-single-charge-2650280348

[PanRonnie]

Brad i am completely with you on electric outboards
i was looking into this 5 years ago and ended up with the most powerfull electric motor per kilogram at the time
https://www.yasa.com/products/yasa-p400/
i made a wooden mockup to see how it would fit under the 2.5 cowling
you can stack these motors together and can build a stacked motor that would destroy anything mercury has in it,s inventory
just one major issue how are you going to power it
5 years ago there was suppose to be a breakthrough in grafeen battery,s still not here
toyota,s solid state battery still not here
so unless there is a Fluxcapacitor that runs on banana peels i think we are stuck for now
i also got a dislike for battery,s since like i mentioned earlyier you cannot store them unpowered/empty
i remove the fuel from my boat end of season
that is why i think hydrogen is the way to go
it is also smarter to not rely on a single system but have multiple energy grid systems
that way if the chinese hack one system you would have some backups
same with cars if tesla is hacked they could shut down all their cars over the air
not something you want

[powerabout]

Some of the comments here dive into politics and nonsense. All the auto manufacturers must not have a clue to all the so-called problems with EV's to be switching to many new models that are electric in the very near future. I applaud new technology.
its just that US automakers are the laggards of the world by not putting features into cars till they are forced, safety, emissions, etc
Then you have emissions trading, I sell 100 compliant engines to allow 20 polluters, Merc have used this since 2000. ( good for us we got great performance engines for a few years)
Gov going to subsidse ev's for the big 3, yes they will jump on that band wagon.

The left greening is all politics and nonsense, the EU dying because of the self inflicted stupidity.
Most of the worlds grids cant make enough power let alone green power, why are we applauding the use of more electricity?

Feb 2021, ( I think it was) Germany had big snow and no wind, and had every coal power station at 100% coal and oops no nuclear, industry shutdown.


We need to pollute less but the current answers have proven not fit for use.

[XstreamVking]

Yeah not to mention that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the world. It’s the grant money that drives the tech world and what they experiment with to solve our transportation problems. Since we have effective power sources now that are being pushed aside by the “China first” bunch I don’t expect much to happen with the obviously better power sources available.

[Brad Zastrow]

The Government has not forced Tesla to build EV cars for the last 12 years. People actually want them. How else do you explain their 50% growth in sale the last few years. They are outperforming many old large auto manufacturers. One thing I have learned over the years is many people resist change. Maybe I should start another thread on 4 stroke O/B's. LOL.

[Chaz]

Cubic Dollars ...

They called it the inflation bill. I have chicken noodle soup after an operation, my wife said it has went from .99c a can to $3.80 a can .. that looks like four times as much to me.

Politics ..

Lets call it what it really is .. climate change bill. $830,000,000,000.00 F'in dollars .. how much of that can you skim without anyone noticing .. the right scumbags are in place to do just that.
And what do the pigeons say .. when they run out of things to say .. that make any sense .. your being political. No #hiz Einstein .. follow the woke tardness .. back to the source.

America ...

I remember when we had a choice. If those that want a $hiz sammich shoved down their throat, go spend some time in china .. let me know how it tastes .. if you make it back ..

Tech ...

I have no problem with tech, or else I'd have a flip phone and dial-up internet. Pushing an agenda .. from AOC and the squad on an elderly senile grandfather that in turn mandates that "we the people" must obey, is not following tech, but a tyrannical gov.
The other night ... I heard that old brain dead man say (14 times) that MAGA is the existential threat to our democracy.
Really .. making our country great, instead of a third world country .. is a threat...??
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that the electric powered spaceship landed and sukked the brains out of 30-50% of our people.

If an open market free enterprise is left alone , it will improve on what we have now, or develop a better system of transportation.

Send a message in November ... FJB

[Shaun K]

How else do you explain their 50% growth in sale the last few years. They are outperforming many old large auto manufacturers..

subsidies

[Chaz]

Well comadore, it looks like you missed the memo ... I can explain what "civilization will crumble" means. If you need me too ... :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/P0cxHnTl.jpg

Here my n**** , this inferno's for you ...

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/resizer/w-wXDU76it8Tvg8Y5aJt91taRso=/1200x900/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/LVSUWYFE6JCWLEZU2R6JLPLFV4.jpg

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.BfuDp0gAuW474XgoYWR9GAHaEs&pid=Api&P=0&w=267&h=170

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Tesla-3rd-Fire.jpg

https://wonderfulengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/tesla-fires.jpg

https://www.forcegt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Tesla-Model-S-caught-fire-in-Norway.jpg

https://reallyright.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Tesla-Burning-1024x576.jpg

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/s3fs-public/styles/width_792/public/TESLATRUCKFIRE-MAIN_i.jpg

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_24/3484344/210618-electric-vehicle-fires-tesla-mn-1107.jpg

I could go on ... but , some just will never learn ... :rolleyes:

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/UKsxxcBxMd78spPLS_JLnmcALyk=/0x27:1280x694/960x500/media/video/img/upload/2012/04/hindenburg-map-atlantic/original.jpeg

[XstreamVking]

Tesla was heavily subsidized by the govt. unlike many others he paid it back with interest. Now the ev’s are subsidized by the taxpayers. Do some research instead of just accepting what the powers that be tell you what’s best for you and your family. They really don’t have our best interest in their plans.

[David - WI]

"Carbon credits" are the same as printing money, they are not based on anything tangible... Tesla was selling hundreds of $ millions to other manufacturers every quarter.


Most interesting is its $679 million carbon credit sales. It’s more than double the prior quarter’s sales of $314 million and is even much higher than its Q1 2021 sales ($518 million). Its Q2 2021 and Q3 2021 credit sales are $354 million and $279 million, respectively.

https://carboncredits.com/tesla-regulatory-carbon-credit-sales-jumps-116/#:~:text=Most%20interesting%20is%20its%20%24679,million%20and%20%24279%20million%2C%20respectively.

[FUJIMO]

...oh, the humanity!...

[David - WI]

Just another subsidy for doing something that doesn't make economic sense but furthers a government objective. :nonod:

Over a $ billion per year in tax dollars to make Tesla appear viable.

[CUDA]

Subsidy the dirty word, but whom gets them ?

Too many

Subsidy Tracker Top 100 Parent Companies(Covers federal, state and local awards combined.)



<thead style="border: 0px solid currentcolor; box-sizing: border-box; --tw-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-inset:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-bg-opacity:1; background-color: rgba(217,235,234,var(--tw-bg-opacity));">
RANK (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?detail=t&order=rank&sort=)
PARENT (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?detail=t&order=parent_name&sort=)
SUBSIDY VALUEhttps://violationtrackeruk.goodjobsfirst.org/resource//arrow-asc.png (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?detail=t&order=sub_total&sort=asc)
NUMBER OF AWARDS (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/?detail=t&order=num_recs&sort=desc)

</thead><tbody style="border: 0px solid currentcolor; box-sizing: border-box; --tw-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-inset:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-ring-offset-width:0px; --tw-ring-offset-color:#fff; --tw-ring-color:rgba(59,130,246,0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 #0000;">
1
Boeing (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/boeing)
$15,374,228,475
1,522


2
General Motors (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/general-motors)
$8,236,574,470
766


3
Intel (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/intel)
$6,004,762,638
146


4
Alcoa (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/alcoa)
$5,805,613,652
173


5
Ford Motor (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/ford-motor)
$5,665,318,864
601


6
X-Energy LLC (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/x-energy-llc)
$5,297,302,367
13


7
Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company) (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/foxconn-technology-group-hon-hai-precisi)
$4,825,691,168
73


8
NRG Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nrg-energy)
$3,921,376,589
279


9
Cheniere Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cheniere-energy)
$3,864,202,239
24


10
General Atomics (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/general-atomics)
$3,537,371,171
407


11
Amazon.com (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/amazoncom)
$3,522,918,174
286


12
Sempra Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sempra-energy)
$3,363,986,694
44


13
Southern Company (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/southern-company)
$3,207,505,461
119


14
NextEra Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nextera-energy)
$2,858,193,244
62


15
Stellantis (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/stellantis)
$2,601,662,312
204


16
General Electric (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/general-electric)
$2,576,928,716
1,972


17
Tesla Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/tesla-inc)
$2,506,116,253
115


18
Summit Power (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/summit-power)
$2,332,190,078
9


19
Iberdrola (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/iberdrola)
$2,287,706,336
111


20
Lockheed Martin (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/lockheed-martin)
$2,115,204,934
1,009


21
Raytheon Technologies (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/raytheon-technologies)
$2,109,557,532
1,578


22
Nike (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nike)
$2,104,917,829
138


23
Mubadala Investment Company (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/mubadala-investment-company)
$2,035,954,929
55


24
Walt Disney (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/walt-disney)
$2,021,189,822
208


25
Brookfield Asset Management (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/brookfield-asset-management)
$2,008,815,624
261


26
SCS Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/scs-energy)
$1,927,236,683
10


27
Archer Daniels Midland (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/archer-daniels-midland)
$1,889,111,134
1,094


28
Venture Global LNG (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/venture-global-lng)
$1,869,575,000
2


29
Sasol (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sasol)
$1,851,232,180
68


30
Cerner (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cerner)
$1,826,761,779
36


31
Nissan (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nissan)
$1,826,106,415
86


32
Royal Dutch Shell (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/royal-dutch-shell)
$1,822,610,637
131


33
IBM Corp. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/ibm-corp)
$1,790,639,936
517


34
Berkshire Hathaway (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/berkshire-hathaway)
$1,788,423,542
925


35
Apple Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/apple-inc)
$1,749,771,920
32


36
Cleveland-Cliffs (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cleveland-cliffs)
$1,688,246,187
129


37
JPMorgan Chase (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/jpmorgan-chase)
$1,593,093,650
1,101


38
PG&E Corp. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pg-and-e-corp)
$1,568,027,901
27


39
Samsung (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/samsung)
$1,546,467,340
61


40
Battelle (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/battelle)
$1,504,147,932
39


41
Energy Transfer (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/energy-transfer)
$1,417,661,764
77


42
Northrop Grumman (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/northrop-grumman)
$1,393,496,966
488


43
Volkswagen (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/volkswagen)
$1,380,425,142
206


44
ViacomCBS (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/viacomcbs)
$1,329,740,953
264


45
Corning Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/corning-inc)
$1,271,107,141
359


46
Duke Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/duke-energy)
$1,246,537,671
63


47
Continental AG (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/continental-ag)
$1,241,208,157
95


48
Comcast (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/comcast)
$1,212,698,940
281


49
NuScale Power (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nuscale-power)
$1,156,699,634
30


50
SkyWest (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/skywest)
$1,151,116,966
519


51
Jefferies Financial Group (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/jefferies-financial-group)
$1,120,662,497
27


52
Abengoa (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/abengoa)
$1,082,660,583
62


53
Alphabet Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/alphabet-inc)
$1,025,017,207
61


54
Exxon Mobil (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/exxon-mobil)
$1,021,177,998
140


55
Exelon (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/exelon)
$1,015,625,393
92


56
Toyota (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/toyota)
$1,003,008,541
183


57
Valero Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/valero-energy)
$954,453,341
163


58
Pyramid Companies (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pyramid-companies)
$924,509,423
78


59
Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/mazda-toyota-manufacturing-usa-inc)
$900,000,000
1


60
Air Products & Chemicals (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/air-products-and-chemicals)
$885,158,490
247


61
Delta Air Lines (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/delta-air-lines)
$878,378,816
24


62
Centene (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/centene)
$872,154,432
51


63
Cree Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cree-inc)
$856,527,702
153


64
Meta Platforms Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/meta-platforms-inc)
$848,186,648
45


65
Bayer (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bayer)
$844,553,003
205


66
EDF-Electricite de France (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/edf-electricite-de-france)
$839,414,818
61


67
LG (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/lg)
$825,859,672
99


68
CF Industries (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cf-industries)
$810,715,945
59


69
Microsoft (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/microsoft)
$810,265,387
84


70
Nucor (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/nucor)
$808,997,440
144


71
SunEdison (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sunedison)
$807,246,758
116


72
Goldman Sachs (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/goldman-sachs)
$798,273,074
254


73
E.ON (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/eon)
$798,057,496
36


74
OGE Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/oge-energy)
$795,643,965
11


75
Texas Instruments (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/texas-instruments)
$795,572,241
60


76
Michelin (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/michelin)
$769,030,427
89


77
AES Corp. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/aes-corp)
$751,108,474
79


78
Triple Five Worldwide (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/triple-five-worldwide)
$748,000,000
4


79
EDP-Energias de Portugal (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/edp-energias-de-portugal)
$733,674,868
14


80
AT&T (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/at-and-t)
$712,033,954
679


81
Johnson Controls (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/johnson-controls)
$706,474,420
134


82
American Electric Power (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/american-electric-power)
$698,001,802
80


83
Bank of America (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bank-of-america)
$695,987,310
906


84
General Dynamics (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/general-dynamics)
$673,504,044
355


85
Sagamore Development (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sagamore-development)
$660,000,000
1


86
Caithness Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/caithness-energy)
$656,728,390
25


87
FedEx (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/fedex)
$649,429,268
558


88
Dominion Energy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/dominion-energy)
$642,882,353
78


89
Apollo Global Management (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/apollo-global-management)
$621,104,537
242


90
Ameren (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/ameren)
$618,093,398
11


91
Bedrock Detroit (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bedrock-detroit)
$618,000,000
1


92
Dow Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/dow-inc)
$616,670,237
594


93
Honeywell International (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/honeywell-international)
$605,352,444
731


94
Mayo Clinic (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/mayo-clinic)
$592,118,103
14


95
Wells Fargo (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/wells-fargo)
$581,052,070
477


96
Sears (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sears)
$574,182,077
93


97
Invenergy (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/invenergy)
$573,139,535
21


98
Hyannis Air Service Inc. (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/hyannis-air-service-inc)
$553,329,635
242


99
Clean Coal Power Operations (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/clean-coal-power-operations)
$550,000,000
1


99
Sematech (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/sematech)
$550,000,000
3

</tbody>

[CUDA]

<article id="post-215086" class="post-215086 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-clean-transport-2 category-electric-vehicles category-fossil-fuels category-health category-oil category-policy-politics category-research category-subsidies tag-bernie-sanders tag-chevron tag-chrysler tag-elon-musk tag-exxonmobil tag-fisker tag-ford tag-fossil-fuels-2 tag-gm tag-legacy-automakers tag-nissan tag-policy-and-politics tag-shell tag-subsidies-2 tag-tesla tag-tesla-subsidies grow-content-body" itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/NewsArticle" style="box-sizing: border-box; word-break: break-word; overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Tesla

Tesla received $0.4 billion of federal loans and bailout support via the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Program. However, that amount was repaid in full with interest, almost a decade early. The federal loan Tesla received was for $465.5 million and was granted in 2010 — the first recovery year after the 2009 financial crisis. As CleanTechnica reported in May 2013, that was paid back 9 years earlier than it had to be (https://cleantechnica.com/2013/05/23/tesla-pays-off-government-loan-9-years-early/).
While Tesla did receive a lot of aid from taxpayers, Tesla paid us back.

<ins data-ad-format="auto" class="adsbygoogle adsbygoogle-noablate" data-ad-client="ca-pub-1552008901061842" data-adsbygoogle-status="done" data-ad-status="filled" style="box-sizing: border-box; word-break: break-word; overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: auto; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; background-color: transparent; height: 280px;"><iframe id="aswift_4" name="aswift_4" sandbox="allow-forms allow-popups allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" width="810" height="280" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" vspace="0" hspace="0" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" src="https://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-1552008901061842&output=html&h=280&adk=3111366823&adf=1300937052&pi=t.aa~a.1131598085~i.25~rp.4&w=810&fwrn=4&fwrnh=100&lmt=1662319675&num_ads=1&rafmt=1&armr=3&sem=mc&pwprc=4886801848&psa=1&ad_type=text_image&format=810x280&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcleantechnica.com%2F2020%2F08%2F03%2Ftesla-subsidies-how-much%2F&fwr=0&pra=3&rh=200&rw=810&rpe=1&resp_fmts=3&wgl=1&fa=27&uach=WyJXaW5kb3dzIiwiMTAuMC4wIiwieDg2IiwiIiwiMTA1LjAuNTE5NS4xMDIiLFtdLGZhbHNlLG51bGwsIjY0IixbWyJHb29 nbGUgQ2hyb21lIiwiMTA1LjAuNTE5NS4xMDIiXSxbIk5vdClBO0JyYW5kIiwiOC4wLjAuMCJdLFsiQ2hyb21pdW0iLCIxMDUuMC4 1MTk1LjEwMiJdXSxmYWxzZV0.&dt=1662319675426&bpp=1&bdt=4517&idt=1&shv=r20220831&mjsv=m202208300101&ptt=9&saldr=aa&abxe=1&cookie=ID%3Da12cf645a2844c5b-22df2456247d0038%3AT%3D1662318558%3ART%3D1662319672%3AS%3DALNI_MaIyHCAtjYIRf0cqRuWQUafM-dkLg&gpic=UID%3D0000093672a56aca%3AT%3D1662318558%3ART%3D1662318558%3AS%3DALNI_MatZfNr7MlZpobflcQ_v8aOvUn MxA&prev_fmts=0x0%2C728x90%2C810x280&nras=3&correlator=3711202683351&frm=20&pv=1&ga_vid=1711520435.1662318558&ga_sid=1662319672&ga_hid=1420710508&ga_fc=1&u_tz=-240&u_his=43&u_h=1080&u_w=1920&u_ah=1040&u_aw=1920&u_cd=24&u_sd=1&dmc=8&adx=377&ady=4404&biw=1903&bih=937&scr_x=0&scr_y=680&eid=21065725%2C31062931&oid=2&pvsid=3004975299193308&tmod=1830445837&uas=3&nvt=1&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&eae=0&fc=1408&brdim=0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C1920%2C0%2C1920%2C1040%2C1920%2C937&vis=1&rsz=%7C%7Cs%7C&abl=NS&fu=128&bc=31&ifi=5&uci=a!5&btvi=2&fsb=1&xpc=C8Z0TDGaxd&p=https%3A//cleantechnica.com&dtd=156" data-google-container-id="a!5" data-google-query-id="CO7jr67v-_kCFcIUwQodaBwB4Q" data-load-complete="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; word-break: break-word; overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 100%; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px; width: 810px; height: 280px;"></iframe>
</ins>
Tesla’s total (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=tesla-inc) subsidy value according to the data is$2,441,582,590 ($2.44 billion), across 109 “awards” — 82 federal grants and tax credits as well as 27 state and local awards.
<a href="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker.png" target="_blank"><img data-attachment-id="215089" data-permalink="https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03/tesla-subsidies-how-much/tesla-inc-subsidy-tracker/" data-orig-file="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker.png" data-orig-size="956,350" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_l ength&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}" data-image-title="Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="Graph from subsidy tracker
" data-medium-file="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker-270x99.png" data-large-file="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker-570x209.png" loading="lazy" class="aligncenter wp-image-215089 size-full" src="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker.png" alt="" width="956" height="350" srcset="https://cleantechnica.com/files/2020/08/Tesla-Inc-Subsidy-Tracker.png 956w,
The idea of a subsidy isn’t really a bad thing — its the government’s way of investing in a company. That’s how I see it, and honestly, it’s supposed to be a good thing, not a bad thing.
The idea of an entity putting money into a company, whether it’s via stocks (for example, an index fund buying massive shares in a company) or a state or local government giving tax breaks for a certain amount of time in return for a company keeping a promise (for example, moving there and creating jobs). So, keep that in mind when comparing Tesla and the other automakers below.
The Other Guys
007 also detailed which other automakers received funds from American taxpayers and whether or not they paid us back. They are:


Ford borrowed $5.937 billion under the ATVM Loan Program. Ford still hasn’t paid that back.

As of today (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=ford-motor), Ford has had a total of at least $33,489,841,570 ($33.49 billion) in subsidies awarded.


Nissan borrowed $1.448 billion under the ATVM Loan Program and still hasn’t paid us back.

Nissan’s total (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=nissan) subsidy value is $1,955,199,450 ($1.96 billion).


Fisker Automotive borrowed $529 million under the ATVM Loan Program and went bankrupt. We won’t get that money back.
GM and Chrysler both went into bankruptcy and had to be rescued under a separate program.

GM’s total (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=general-motors) subsidy value is $50,346,920,000 ($50.35 billion).
Fiat-Chrysler’s total (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=fiat-chrysler-automobiles) subsidy value is $17,599,200,000 ($17.6 billion).


But people are worried about Tesla, which has had the least amount of subsidies according to this tracker?
<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?creatorScreenName=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FJohnnaCrider1&dnt=true&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOlsibGlua3RyLmVlIiwidHIuZWUiXSwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0 sInRmd19ob3Jpem9uX3RpbWVsaW5lXzEyMDM0Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHd lZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWN rZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfY2hpbl9waWxsc18xNDc0MSI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJjb2xvcl9pY29ucyIsInZ lcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfcmVzdWx0X21pZ3JhdGlvbl8xMzk3OSI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJ0d2VldF9yZXN1bHQiLCJ 2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3NlbnNpdGl2ZV9tZWRpYV9pbnRlcnN0aXRpYWxfMTM5NjMiOnsiYnVja2V0IjoiaW50ZXJzdGl 0aWFsIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19leHBlcmltZW50c19jb29raWVfZXhwaXJhdGlvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOjEyMDk2MDA sInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZHVwbGljYXRlX3NjcmliZXNfdG9fc2V0dGluZ3MiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9 uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3R3ZWV0X2VkaXRfZnJvbnRlbmQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib2ZmIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH19&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1289256621869158405&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fcleantechnica.com%2F2020%2F08%2F03%2Ftesla-subsidies-how-much%2F&sessionId=10aae484beb4ead177e8e39dda16fd257d722b6c&theme=light&widgetsVersion=1bfeb5c3714e8%3A1661975971032&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1289256621869158405" style="box-sizing: border-box; word-break: break-word; overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; vertical-align: baseline; max-width: 100%; position: static; visibility: visible; width: 510px; height: 1013px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
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Who Else Gets High Amounts Of Subsidies?

I wanted to take this to the next level and include oil companies that are currently creating products that pollute the air. As you know, pollution has been linked to higher Covid-19 deaths and also many, many other illnesses (https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/14/what-if-covid-19-caused-lung-cancer-heart-attacks-childhood-asthma-dementia-psychosis-diabetes-childhood-leukemia-brain-tumors-learning-challenges-renal-failure-alzheimers-fetal-de/). So, let’s take a quick glance at some of the more popular brands you may be familiar with:


Exxon Mobil (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=exxon-mobil): total subsidy value is $1,015,682,466 ($1.02 billion);

Exxon’s federal loans/bailout assistance total: $3,853,988,000 ($3.85 billion).


Chevron (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=chevron): total subsidy value is $117,023,474 ($117 million);

Chevron’s federal loan and bailout assistance: $2,074,752,000 ($2.07 billion)


Shell (https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=royal-dutch-shell): total subsidy value is $1,795,683,725 ($1.8 billion);

Its federal loans and bailout assistants total $2,686,000 ($2.69 million).


Although these companies were awarded smaller subsidy amounts than Tesla was, keep in mind that these long established companies pollute our planet and thus bodies in ways that cause all kinds of illnesses and tens or hundreds of thousands of premature deaths a year (https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/18/200000-americans-a-year-die-from-air-pollution/).
Additionally, they have gotten massive bailouts.
Final 2.5¢

The average American may see criticisms of “Tesla subsidies” and automatically assume that Elon Musk is trying to steal their money and is getting away with it because he is a billionaire. This is simply not the case. Every year, we as taxpayers give billions upon billions of dollars out in subsidies to many, many companies. Tesla has benefitted the least from this while providing some of the most valuable products of the century, which will enable us to have a better future. That is why the government has rightfully invested in Tesla over the years — because the return on investment for society is massive.
Others companies that have been established for decades and contribute every day to deadly pollution also receive subsidies. If Tesla was not going to do so, that would put it on lower ground than the competition and make it harder to succeed — which would hurt everyone.



<center style="box-sizing: border-box; word-break: break-word; overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px auto 20px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1.125rem; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 1.55;">
</center></article>

[CUDA]

Charlie use facts

Tesla electric cars less likely to catch fire than petrol cars – report


Tesla cars catching fire have made news around the world. Now the company claims it's all smoke and mirrors – and that petrol-powered vehicles are more prone to burst into flames.


<figure data-index="2907003-0" class="slider-image-figure inlineCarousel_drive-inline-carousel__container__nLlQq" style="box-sizing: inherit; border-width: 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgba(239,239,239,var(--tw-border-opacity)); border-image: initial; --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-transform:translateX(var(--tw-translate-x)) translateY(var(--tw-translate-y)) rotate(var(--tw-rotate)) skewX(var(--tw-skew-x)) skewY(var(--tw-skew-y)) scaleX(var(--tw-scale-x)) scaleY(var(--tw-scale-y)); --tw-border-opacity:1; --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-blur:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-brightness:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-contrast:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-grayscale:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-hue-rotate:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-invert:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-saturate:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-sepia:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-drop-shadow:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-filter:var(--tw-blur) var(--tw-brightness) var(--tw-contrast) var(--tw-grayscale) var(--tw-hue-rotate) var(--tw-invert) var(--tw-saturate) var(--tw-sepia) var(--tw-drop-shadow); margin: 0px auto; height: 468px; position: relative; width: 832px;"><button class="lightbox-btn lightbox_drive-lightbox__open-btn__MKKmY inlineCarousel_drive-inline-carousel__lightbox-btn-position__autAe" style="box-sizing: inherit; border-width: 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgba(239,239,239,var(--tw-border-opacity)); --tw-translate-x:0; --tw-translate-y:0; --tw-rotate:0; --tw-skew-x:0; --tw-skew-y:0; --tw-scale-x:1; --tw-scale-y:1; --tw-transform:translateX(var(--tw-translate-x)) translateY(var(--tw-translate-y)) rotate(var(--tw-rotate)) skewX(var(--tw-skew-x)) skewY(var(--tw-skew-y)) scaleX(var(--tw-scale-x)) scaleY(var(--tw-scale-y)); --tw-border-opacity:1; --tw-ring-offset-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow:0 0 #0000; --tw-blur:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-brightness:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-contrast:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-grayscale:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-hue-rotate:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-invert:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-saturate:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-sepia:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-drop-shadow:var(--tw-empty, ); --tw-filter:var(--tw-blur) var(--tw-brightness) var(--tw-contrast) var(--tw-grayscale) var(--tw-hue-rotate) var(--tw-invert) var(--tw-saturate) var(--tw-sepia) var(--tw-drop-shadow); font-family: inherit; font-size: 1rem; line-height: 18px; margin: 0px 1.5rem 1.5rem 0px; appearance: button; background-image: none; cursor: pointer; padding: 0px 1.125rem; position: absolute; bottom: 1rem; right: 0px; --tw-bg-opacity:0.5; min-height: 2.5rem; border-radius: 0.5rem; transition-property: opacity; transition-timing-function: cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1); transition-duration: 0.5s; display: flex; align-items: center; font-style: normal; font-weight: 600; letter-spacing: 0px; --tw-text-opacity:1;">Tesla (https://www.drive.com.au/showrooms/Tesla/) electric cars are 11 times less likely to catch fire than petrol and diesel-powered vehicles, according to a study released overnight by the company.</button></figure>
“From 2012 to 2020, there has been approximately one Tesla vehicle fire for every 205 million miles travelled. By comparison, data shows that in the US there is one ICE vehicle fire for every 19 million miles travelled,” Tesla’s [I]2020 Impact Report (https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2020-tesla-impact-report.pdf) claimed.

The report cites data “gathered by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and the US Department of Transportation” however relevant figures are not linked, and the study does not seem to take into account vehicle age. Tesla has only been selling vehicles in high volume for approximately five years.

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</section>

Furthermore, older petrol-powered vehicles – and ones that have not been properly maintained – are more likely to catch fire or have mechanical breakdowns.

Several high-profile instances of Tesla fires (https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-china-model-s-explosion/) have made news in recent months, prompting questions about the safety and transparency of the brand's operations.

Further, a report last year found electric vehicle battery fires could require “up to 150,000 litres of water” to extinguish. By comparison, when a petrol or diesel car catches fire, it can be put out with between 500 and 1000 litres of water.

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A statement from Tesla said: “In the rare instances where Tesla vehicles are involved in a fire, we provide detailed information to first responders so they can safely handle those emergency situations. We continue to improve our battery chemistry, cell structure, battery pack structure and vehicle passive safety in order to decrease fire risk to as close to zero as possible.”

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</figure>

[CUDA]

Give it away...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932

<section class="page-content__row page-content__row--story is-bg-full-width is-boxed " style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; position: relative; z-index: 2; margin: 0px auto; max-width: 100%; border: 0px; padding: 1.875rem 0px; color: rgb(105, 109, 112); font-family: din-2014, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><section class="media-item media-item--story media-item--story-lead " style="box-sizing: border-box;">
Here’s your check’: Trump’s massive payouts to farmers will be hard to pull back

The president was already spending double his predecessor to spare farmers the cost of his trade war. Now the price is reaching unsustainable levels.

<figure class="art " style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px;">
https://www.politico.com/dims4/default/f0d5aca/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1160x773+0+0/resize/1290x860!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F5a%2F78%2F51d81e364b7ca8af03acc5df99c5%2F190930-iowa-farm-getty-773.jpg
</figure></section></section><section class="page-content__row page-content__row--story mobile-spacing" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; position: relative; z-index: 2; margin: 1.875rem auto 0px; max-width: 84.375rem; border: 0px; padding: 0px 1.875rem; color: rgb(105, 109, 112); font-family: din-2014, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><aside class="social-tools" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0.625rem 0px 0px;"></aside>Government payments to farmers have surged to historic levels under President Donald Trump as the Agriculture Department floods the industry with cash to stem the financial losses from Trump’s tariff fights and the coronavirus pandemic.
But as agriculture grows more reliant on unprecedented taxpayer support, farm policy experts and watchdog groups warn the subsidies are growing too big and too fast, with no strings attached and little oversight from Congress — and that Washington could have a difficult time shutting off the spigot.

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Direct farm aid has climbed each year of Trump’s presidency, from $11.5 billion in 2017 to more than $32 billion this year — an all-time high, with potentially far more funding still to come in 2020, amounting to about two-thirds of the cost of the entire Department of Housing and Urban Development and more than the Agriculture Department’s $24 billion discretionary budget, according to a POLITICO analysis. But lawmakers have taken a largely hands-off approach, letting the department decide who gets the money and how much.





</section><section class="page-content__row page-content__row--story main-section" data-content-section="4" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; position: relative; z-index: 2; margin: 1.875rem auto 0px; max-width: 84.375rem; border: 0px; padding: 0px 1.875rem; color: rgb(105, 109, 112); font-family: din-2014, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><aside class="story-enhancement standard" data-content-child-index="0-0" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 1.875rem;">
<section class="dispatch-parent-flex" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; margin: 0px auto; background-color: whitesmoke; color: black; flex-flow: column nowrap; font-family: &quot;din 2014&quot;, din-2014, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; padding: 20px 20px 15px; width: 430px;">

</section>
</aside>The massive payments have been a political boon to Trump in farm country — he tweeted in January that he hoped the money would be “the thing they will most remember” — but risk creating a culture of dependency, as farmers and ranchers work the bonus subsidies into their financial plans when making large, up-front investments in seed, feed and farm machinery.
“It’s a big problem for agriculture because it’s not sustainable,” said Anne Schechinger, senior economics analyst at the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit watchdog organization. “It’s really difficult once you’re giving farmers this much money to then take away those [payments].”
It’s a problem for taxpayers, too: The size, speed and lack of scrutiny of the payments should concern the public,says Neil Hamilton, emeritus professor and former director of Drake University’s Agricultural Law Center.
“It’s just, ‘Here’s your check.’ There’s an incredible amount of trust that [farmers] will use it wisely,” he said. “But at the end of the day, it’s your and my tax money. It’s not a crazy idea to ask what the public’s getting from this, or could the public expect more for it.”
The spending surge began in mid-2018 when USDA started writing checks to farmers and ranchers to pay for the damage from Trump’s trade war, which brought about higher tariffs that crushed agricultural exports and commodity prices. Farm sales to China plummeted from $19.5 billion in 2017 to just $9 billion the next year; as producers continued to hemorrhage profits in 2019, farm bankruptcies jumped nearly 20 percent last year.


The trade bailout has now spanned three years and surpassed $23 billion, even though it was never appropriated by Congress. Instead, the money was funneled through USDA’s Commodity Credit Corporation, a Depression-era agency that can borrow from the U.S. Treasury to stabilize the farm economy.
</section><section class="page-content__row page-content__row--story main-section" data-content-section="10" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; position: relative; z-index: 2; margin: 1.875rem auto 0px; max-width: 84.375rem; border: 0px; padding: 0px 1.875rem; color: rgb(105, 109, 112); font-family: din-2014, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><aside class="story-enhancement standard" data-content-child-index="0-1" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-bottom: 1.875rem;"><iframe title="Government farm aid has soared under Trump" aria-label="chart" id="datawrapper-chart-rrobm" src="https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/rrobm/3/" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" height="552" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px auto; width: 0px; border-width: initial; border-style: none; min-width: 100%; height: 560px;"></iframe></aside>“The administration picked these trade fights promising agriculture that this would lead to some better world at some point,” Hamilton said. “Rather than suffering any consequence for the ill-conceived strategy, they just said, ‘Hey, let’s tap the bank. We’ll buy our way out of this.’”
Because agriculture is both high-risk and vital to the food supply, the government has long been in the business of helping farmers and ranchers manage economic downturns, natural disasters and other headwinds; Congress routinely passes farm bills that include a suite of subsidies, conservation incentives, crop insurance and other safety net programs. Under the Obama administration, total direct payments to farmers ranged from $9.8 billion to nearly $13 billion per year.
But under Trump, the trade bailout and coronavirus relief efforts have pushed farm spending to more than twice that level, with far more in the pipeline.
USDA is currently distributing $16 billion in farm rescue payments, on top of standard farm bill subsidies, plus another round of trade bailout checks earlier this year. But bipartisan lawmakers are now calling for adding as much as $50 billion to Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue’s arsenal in the next stimulus package to help producers stung by supply chain disruptions.
Farm industry groups and their allies on Capitol Hill argue the money is needed to stem the steep losses after many of the biggest food purchasers, like schools and restaurants, stopped buying. Even as the cost of beef climbed at grocery stores during the pandemic, for example, the money wasn’t reaching cattle ranchers who received unusually low prices for their livestock from meatpackers.


<aside class="story-enhancement" id="aside-1" data-aside-index="1" style="box-sizing: border-box;"> MOST READ



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<section class="media-item" style="box-sizing: border-box;">Bill Barr: The facts show the Feds were being ‘jerked around’ by Trump (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/02/bill-barr-trump-fbi-mar-a-lago-00054716)</section>


</aside></section>

[JLanier571]

Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics necessary to deny the data. Well done. ;)

[David]

The IIHS tracks non collision vehicle fires. Their most recent data is 2016 to 2018, so early Model S data only for Tesla. It's not the worst, nor is is as good as Tesla is claiming today. Perhaps Tesla has more current data then the IIHS has published

average large 4 door car relative claim frequency = 149
Tesla model S = 140. It did not make the top claim list509484509485

[Chaz]

Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics necessary to deny the data. Well done. ;)

CRUD = finding fake new's .. nothing new there .. sorry to disappoint .. :p

And Ohh my, look at all those "power or electric' borrowers .. :rolleyes:

Just for kicks .. post up how much NASA spends with Space-X .. :eek:

Pretty easy to pay back a Measley two billion .. when your getting the other hand stuffed to the gills ... ;)

It's not just the big golf carts that go full inferno ... :nonod:

The little ones ... do it too ... :p

https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2011/09/15/EDE_16-09-2011_EGN_01_GRA150911rsgolfclubfire_ct1880x930.jpg

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.3ZczRXdVJ0N6cPzUk5HktQHaE8&pid=Api&P=0&w=240&h=161

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/evfirebig.jpg

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/gvnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/e9/be9ba654-82d0-11e2-a251-001a4bcf887a/51314c52a8864.image.jpg

https://www.bunkersparadise.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-10-at-1.27.11-PM.png

https://www.wsfa.com/resizer/T9b8v-5NvchvY0hNN4hVs3-EnRk=/1400x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/VKDGFNUBI5F5RILUACPNG2SAPA.jpg

Lithium batterys are like Nitro Methane .. a mono propellent .. no good to smother the fire from oxygen .. it will continue to burn .

At least burn magnesium .. white hot and purty ... :o

http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/84/f1/61a1fc2a45b0ab0b1e76bdc0fbca/hindenburg-2.jpg

[David - WI]

Can't wait to see the mental gymnastics necessary to deny the data. Well done. ;)


The fact is Americans have always wanted fuel-efficient cars because that saves them money—and is also highly beneficial to the environment. This government-mandated scheme of carbon credits simply replaces consumer-driven demand for better technology with a make-believe commodity that benefits no one except companies like Tesla—which in turn makes cars that most Americans can’t afford.

https://empoweringamerica.org/afternoon-tea-teslas-carbon-credit-scam-on-americans/

[Chaz]

https://empoweringamerica.org/afternoon-tea-teslas-carbon-credit-scam-on-americans/

I find that common sense is wasted on the woke (funny how they are for the most part .. asleep) . :rolleyes:

All we can do is remind them of energy independence that we had just a couple years ago. The other half (tard) comes into play when they would rather spend a trillion dollars on a bogus system .. than open up the fields and refineries .. sad :cool:

[Shaun K]

Tesla Fire Needed 40 Times More Water Than Regular Car After Crash (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-crash-fire-lithium-battery-austin-more-water-than-regular-2021-8#:~:text=%22Normally%20a%20car%20fire%20you%20can%20put%20out,starts%20burning%20and%20that%20was%2 0the%20case%20here.%22)

"Normally a car fire you can put out with 500 to 1,000 gallons of water," Austin Fire Department Division Chief Thayer Smith said, per The Independent, "but Tesla's may take up to 30,000-40,000 gallons of water, maybe even more, to extinguish the battery pack once it starts burning and that was the case here."


https://www.fox7austin.com/news/austin-fire-battles-battery-fire-after-tesla-crash

[David - WI]

Amazon temporarily shuts down solar rooftops at all US facilities due to firesA fire broke out at an Amazon warehouse in Maryland in June 2021 due to an 'unspecified event involving the solar panel system'
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/amazon-temporarily-shuts-down-solar-rooftops-facilities-fires

[powerabout]

The Government has not forced Tesla to build EV cars for the last 12 years. People actually want them. How else do you explain their 50% growth in sale the last few years. They are outperforming many old large auto manufacturers. One thing I have learned over the years is many people resist change. Maybe I should start another thread on 4 stroke O/B's. LOL.
The gov has given them about $500 million a year in carbon credits.

Yes people get comfortable and resist change, but you need to look at what that change did for you, who wants conventional ply tyres or drum brakes or carbys?

Change quiet often has costs with no benefit or its a balance.
57 corvette Fuel Injection, we all gave up on carbs, well Detroit didnt till forced.

EFI production outboards pre 2000?? ( ok 220 laser)changed when forced to.

[JLanier571]

And they sell those carbon credits to other manufacturers at a profit, offsetting the carbon loss. I'm all for EVs, but Tesla isn't the example we should be looking to. Mercury has already committed to 5 new Electric outboard models, and the E1 class starts next year. There's no fighting the trend.

[Chaz]

EV Fires ...

Don't really blame you guys for running away from that one. Bout all you could do is say .. we are racist or it's political ... and now homophobic .. cuz electric cars, boats, airplanes .. are so *ukkin g*y

Carbon credits ..

Oh, only $500,000,000.00 million. Thats American Patriots money ..in the trillions now ..for nothing but to get re-elected so they can further tear down America ..

The Sky is Falling ...

Is a hoax .. until they pollute our water and country side with dead EV's

Carby's ...

You should have went to the US Nationals this weekend .. you'd see just how wrong that statement is ..

EV .. racing ..

I rekkon the g*y's need something to watch .. :p

American car safety ...

We were OK until we started making little euro-$hizboxs .. with crumple zones ...:o

Cadillac car .. big diamond ring .. :thumbsup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi8iU-dgIL0

[David - WI]

And they sell those carbon credits to other manufacturers at a profit, offsetting the carbon loss. I'm all for EVs, but Tesla isn't the example we should be looking to. Mercury has already committed to 5 new Electric outboard models, and the E1 class starts next year. There's no fighting the trend.

It's more than that actually. Tesla sells the carbon credits to offset and lower the cost of their EV's that nobody would buy at their "actual" price; and the other manufacturers have to buy those credits (which raises the cost of gasoline/diesel vehicles) in order to be allowed to sell enough of the IC vehicles people actually want. This is the government spending our money to push something that most people don't want or need... by making EV's artificially "competitive" with IC vehicles.

[Chaz]

It's more than that actually. Tesla sells the carbon credits to offset and lower the cost of their EV's that nobody would buy at their "actual" price; and the other manufacturers have to buy those credits (which raises the cost of gasoline/diesel vehicles) in order to be allowed to sell enough of the IC vehicles people actually want. This is the government spending our money to push something that most people don't want or need... by making EV's artificially "competitive" with IC vehicles.

Carbon credits .. fentanyl on the street corner .. all boff felonies. :mad:

I'd sure settle for a few mean tweets instead of the swamp **** ******* who sell out our country on a daily basis. ;)

FJB and anybody who supports the commie left agenda.

If you have a battery fetish, lick the posts of a nine volt, and leave the rest of us alone .. :thumbsup:

******* NEWS FLASH ********

On tonight's Street Outlaws ..

JJ the Boss gaptized some "Tezla played s" kid with a 67 Nova, iron small block , carby .. no nitrous .. Where was the commadore ... he would have been next on the choppin block ... LMAO :D

JJ was quoted ..

$150,000.00 car .. thats more than my whole neighborhood cost .. :p

[CUDA]

Chaz you back on crack ?

I know you have done more COKE then everyone on the site put together, GIVE UP destroying this site

go weld something, that's your job, welder, but you seem to believe your the second coming of JC.

Your so in love with yourself your sick, get a grip.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Tesla Fire Needed 40 Times More Water Than Regular Car After Crash (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-crash-fire-lithium-battery-austin-more-water-than-regular-2021-8#:~:text=%22Normally%20a%20car%20fire%20you%20can%20put%20out,starts%20burning%20and%20that%20was%2 0the%20case%20here.%22)

"Normally a car fire you can put out with 500 to 1,000 gallons of water," Austin Fire Department Division Chief Thayer Smith said, per The Independent, "but Tesla's may take up to 30,000-40,000 gallons of water, maybe even more, to extinguish the battery pack once it starts burning and that was the case here."


https://www.fox7austin.com/news/austin-fire-battles-battery-fire-after-tesla-crash

They are so "GREEN" though. LOL!!! I thought about buying an S Plaid just for a toy. I would have to build a separate garage to store it in and charge it. I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night on fire!

Now I am thinking about an SRT Super Stock. Should be worth more after 4 years with no battery replacement, runs mid 10s, and I can drive it more than 400 miles in a day. :cheers:

[Shaun K]

They are so "GREEN" though. LOL!!! I thought about buying an S Plaid just for a toy. I would have to build a separate garage to store it in and charge it. I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night on fire!

Now I am thinking about an SRT Super Stock. Should be worth more after 4 years with no battery replacement, runs mid 10s, and I can drive it more than 400 miles in a day. :cheers:


If it has to be green and a dodge this would be my choice



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brp1f-Ud9DY

[Forkin' Crazy]

If it has to be green and a dodge this would be my choice



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brp1f-Ud9DY

Funny you should mention that. A friend of mine just put up for sale his 69 or 70 Roadrunner, all original, fresh paint, 383, and has under 100K on the clock. $40 isn't really that bad. Cold A/C, auto, power steering, etc.

https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=509586&d=1662480047

509586

[Shaun K]

Funny you should mention that. A friend of mine just put up for sale his 69 or 70 Roadrunner, all original, fresh paint, 383, and has under 100K on the clock. $40 isn't really that bad. Cold A/C, auto, power steering, etc.

I think my cars days are long over, was all gm cars, two Camaro's Ls6 454 & L88 427 and I stuffed a very modified L78 396 into a 67-firebird convertible (was my fav car), all autos (turbo400). If I did it again by miracle it would have to be a 4 speed. Always had eyes for a 69-70 SS El Camino , would want a 327-350 stick that could handle 8k all day. Never had a small block myself but drove plenty of them though, very fun feel i missed out in a way

[Chaz]

Chaz you back on crack ?

I know you have done more COKE then everyone on the site put together, GIVE UP destroying this site

go weld something, that's your job, welder, but you seem to believe your the second coming of JC.

Your so in love with yourself your sick, get a grip.

Looks like I hit the nail on the head with post # 202


Don't really blame you guys for running away from that one. Bout all you could do is say .. we are racist or it's political ... and now homophobic .. cuz electric cars, boats, airplanes .. are so *ukkin g*y

Poor CRUD sukka , has to resort to personal lies on top of cut and paste lies .. :rolleyes:

If you didn't have your head buried in your boyfriends lap .. you would notice I have less posts than you ... BUT HAVE FIVE TIMES THE "THANKS / LIKES" AS YOU DO ... :D
I noticed, while people thank me .. they at the same time call you the "VILLAGE IDIOT"
So I'll go with the majority .. while you wallow in donkey $hiz .. :p

[Chaz]

Cry like the little weasel you are .. Daddy, daddy, please take the picture down ..

https://i.imgur.com/HGhWZ98l.jpg?1

[Stoker boy]

Hi Mr. CUDA, I’m surprised you would resort to using the initials JC, as I understand you’re a devout atheist.

[CUDA]

Stoker 12 years of Roman Catholic education ... fairy tails, I'm glad you enjoy, so you going to heaven ?

Wrong boat Chaz, I like the other one better

https://i.imgur.com/bgsIE0fl.jpg




You still welding up those oxygen tanks filled with COKE ?

nice safe way to transport coke north, I've heard, the good old days HUH!

[David - WI]

It's so hard for me to understand what you're saying these days.

509611

[2thelake]

Stoker 12 years of Roman Catholic education ... fairy tails, I'm glad you enjoy, so you going to heaven ?

Wrong boat Chaz, I like the other one better

https://i.imgur.com/bgsIE0fl.jpg


2 smoke mariner?…Hypocrisy!!!! Thy name is CUDA! :eek::D

[Stoker boy]

Mr. CUDA, What I know is back in the 50s and the 60s people in Catholic school knew nothing about the Bible. You ask a question, am I going to heaven. Gods word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ not by our own efforts or works. Ephesians 2:8. God will make the final decision where I end up.

If you have any questions I will do my best to answer them for you.

[Shaun K]

Give it away...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932

<section class="page-content__row page-content__row--story is-bg-full-width is-boxed " style="box-sizing: border-box; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; position: relative; z-index: 2; margin: 0px auto; max-width: 100%; border: 0px; padding: 1.875rem 0px;"><section class="media-item media-item--story media-item--story-lead " style="box-sizing: border-box;">
Here’s your check’: Trump’s massive payouts to farmers will be hard to pull back




What's happening to US farmers now ? They are going belly up because of some stupid war in some corrupt country where Obama & Biden flipped the government in 2014 and installed a midget Tv actor. Now sanctioning wussia of the fertilizer Us farmers need to grow. Potash has quadrupled under Joe davos since 2021 ! Is that in the countries interest Cuda? However, this whole thing looks like a controlled slow burn of the US economy & food supply. Some real mindless comments here


</section></section>

[powerabout]

What's happening to US farmers now ? They are going belly up because of some stupid war in some corrupt country where Obama & Biden flipped the government in 2014 and installed a midget Tv actor. Now sanctioning wussia of the fertilizer Us farmers need to grow. Potash has quadrupled under Joe davos since 2021 ! Is that in the countries interest Cuda? However, this whole thing looks like a controlled slow burn of the US economy & food supply. Some real mindless comments here





yes Eu and USA self destructing by their own leaders, only good news is China going down faster also by their own leaders.
What are you paying for vinylester and epoxy atm?

[Shaun K]

yes Eu and USA self destructing by their own leaders, only good news is China going down faster also by their own leaders.
What are you paying for vinylester and epoxy atm?

I would be quite skeptical of what you read in any western news sources my friend. China has been stockpiling grain to the moon over the last years, look it up. This whole thing is theater

[powerabout]

I would be quite skeptical of what you read in any western news sources my friend. China has been stockpiling grain to the moon over the last years, look it up. This whole thing is theater
Yes I try to get my news from people and businesses on the ground.

[Chaz]

I just got off the phone with Sister Mary .. while she did admit to smacking the children's knuckles with a ruler, for their own good .. she remembers using a ballpeen hammer on CRUD's head .. and it still did no good.

I guess it explains why his head is flat .. and ganGREEN in color.

She said he wrote that his main goals in life were to own two boats.

One, a big BLOW boat because even at an early age .. he knew his pronoun.

The second, a boat he could lead the parade with. Carry the f*g flag .

He would have one nice boat, except for the left wing tards don't think (and their right) that boaters vote for stupid people with stupid ideas. Hence there are no government programs costing billions to purchase boats for tard voters.

I think "little jimmie crudbox" is more agnostic .. than atheist. He knows there is a god, but only pulls him out of the woodwork .. when he's in trouble, afraid, or alone. Ohh Lawd, please hep me. I never do it again .. until, next time. ;) Fits right in with his personality of a liar .. :)

Chaz = wunderin, how many bus loads of illegal immigrants he's havin dropped off at his place ... ??? Afterall, those are his people, being allowed in, by his people .. :p

BTW, staying on topic .. how much is a replacement battery for a "played out, plade-s tezzla" ... ??? :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4dl6JSf-bc

[Stoker boy]

509630

[Noah Burns]

You really are a buffoon... Street outlaws is where you get your "real life" info from huh? Literally hundreds of people (including myself) have first hand experience with them only agreeing to race someone on the show if you will lose to them.

Cuda may have an opinion on EV that I disagree with but one thing I do agree with him on is that you are a complete idiot.


On tonight's Street Outlaws ..

JJ the Boss gaptized some "Tezla played s" kid with a 67 Nova, iron small block , carby .. no nitrous .. Where was the commadore ... he would have been next on the choppin block ... LMAO :D

JJ was quoted ..

$150,000.00 car .. thats more than my whole neighborhood cost .. :p

[Noah Burns]

Interesting you say that US farmers are going belly up, my cousin and his family are farmers... soy and wheat... they're currently busier and making more money from the product coming out of the ground than they ever have. Another cousin, that one's brother, is a cattleman, raising and selling more cattle than any time since we were kids.

I almost regret not going into business with both of them when it was an option, working for this lowly government contractor here in Texas just doesn't pay what farming does.






What's happening to US farmers now ? They are going belly up because of some stupid war in some corrupt country where Obama & Biden flipped the government in 2014 and installed a midget Tv actor. Now sanctioning wussia of the fertilizer Us farmers need to grow. Potash has quadrupled under Joe davos since 2021 ! Is that in the countries interest Cuda? However, this whole thing looks like a controlled slow burn of the US economy & food supply. Some real mindless comments here

[Shaun K]

Interesting you say that US farmers are going belly up, my cousin and his family are farmers... soy and wheat... they're currently busier and making more money from the product coming out of the ground than they ever have. Another cousin, that one's brother, is a cattleman, raising and selling more cattle than any time since we were kids.

I almost regret not going into business with both of them when it was an option, working for this lowly government contractor here in Texas just doesn't pay what farming does.

You might want to look into cricket farming because US agriculture will be shutting down due to climate change, like the nitrogen policies be pushed forward in the Netherlands right now. The US is about a year or so behind at the most. Potash 300% increase since 2021 was only the first salvo here.

[Stoker boy]

I understand our wonderful governor wants to put a special tax on meat because when people eat meat they produce excessive amounts of methane gas into the atmosphere. Crickets are the future.

[Chaz]

You really are a buffoon... Street outlaws is where you get your "real life" info from huh? Literally hundreds of people (including myself) have first hand experience with them only agreeing to race someone on the show if you will lose to them.

Cuda may have an opinion on EV that I disagree with but one thing I do agree with him on is that you are a complete idiot.

Wait .. you mean to tell me that Santa , Pro Wrestlin and that you were in Huston Control for the moon landing too ... :rolleyes:

I'd axe you for info on ... well everything. But if you don't know what the little green emoji means ... :D

Then you really are the ...

N umber
O ne
A zz
H at

:p


SK sez:

You might want to look into cricket farming because US agriculture will be shutting down due to climate change, like the nitrogen policies be pushed forward in the Netherlands right now. The US is about a year or so behind at the most. Potash 300% increase since 2021 was only the first salvo here.

Stoker states :

I understand our wonderful governor wants to put a special tax on meat because when people eat meat they produce excessive amounts of methane gas into the atmosphere. Crickets is the future.

$20,000.00 batteries .. your not allowed to charge.

Gabby hired N.O.A.H. to sniff out fluctuance and report every Monday.

CRUD has been contracted to lead every pride parade until 2034.

The rest of us will be fine after the mid-terms. :thumbsup:

I just got back from Africa .. they explained to me how they feel about the current education system in certain parts of Murica ... :o


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yAnHFj4IK0

[CUDA]

Some children

never mature

It's all about those likes huh?

I'm married to the girl I started dating when I was 16 yr old

Tell them the truth

The Coke paid for the drag race days:cheers:

and made you who you are...

In the early 80's the machine shop I used was next door to a welding shop, two man operation

the machine shop and welding shop did work for Fast By Gast the top 2 cycle drag bike engine builder,

welders built the bike frames Herb the machinist did what was needed, the welder's went from a two man operation single door shop to a

ex 1950's new car dealership, with several new employees, huge operation over night, was told those big oxygen

tanks could handle about 14 kilograms of coke:thumbsup: and still have a supply of oxygen so it was functional...

BRILLIANT!

[Stoker boy]

Good morning Mr. CUDA, I hope you had a glorious week. You keep talking about “Coke” do you mean as in cocaine? Always remember, speed kills. I hope you have a wonderful weekend I will keep you in my prayers.

[Noah Burns]

You tin foil hat types really crack me up.



You might want to look into cricket farming because US agriculture will be shutting down due to climate change, like the nitrogen policies be pushed forward in the Netherlands right now. The US is about a year or so behind at the most. Potash 300% increase since 2021 was only the first salvo here.

[Shaun K]

You tin foil hat types really crack me up.


It took you a day to come up w that ? lol That weak canned response might have been funny a few years but now its just ignorant. Take a bow

[Noah Burns]

a day? unlike you I have other things going on in life that prevent me from 24/7 monitoring of s&f... get a hobby, please... you need something to take your mind off of things that will never happen.


It took you a day to come up w that ? lol That weak canned response might have been funny a few years but now its just ignorant. Take a bow

[Stoker boy]

509704

[Shaun K]

a day? unlike you I have other things going on in life that prevent me from 24/7 monitoring of s&f... get a hobby, please... you need something to take your mind off of things that will never happen.

Another weak response. You're full of reality, aren't you? Ok everybody move on, "it's just another conspiracy theory"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-29/democrats-climate-bill-seen-to-boost-carbon-capture-on-us-farms

[Noah Burns]

you really are a buffoon huh. I'll keep watching folks thrive on their farms, you keep posting nonsense on a boat forum. I'm sure we'll both be just fine. Well, I know I will be... you on the other hand will likely worry yourself to death over things that just aren't real.


Another weak response. You're full of reality, aren't you? Ok everybody move on, "it's just another conspiracy theory"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-29/democrats-climate-bill-seen-to-boost-carbon-capture-on-us-farms

[David]

Another thread in the dumpster fire. I keep looking here hoping for more information about the electric boat. Silly me.

[Shaun K]

you really are a buffoon huh. I'll keep watching folks thrive on their farms, you keep posting nonsense on a boat forum. I'm sure we'll both be just fine. Well, I know I will be... you on the other hand will likely worry yourself to death over things that just aren't real.


You do that Einstein. As soon as I see .... .... I lose interest anyway.

https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadReportByFileName?fileName=Government%20Presents%20National%20Program%20to%20Reduce%20Nitroge n%20Greenhouse%20Gas%20Emissions%20in%20Rural%20Areas%20_The%20Hague_Netherlands_NL2022-0035.pdf

[Noah Burns]

Nah, just hate and ignorance from the usual crowd... nothing ever really changes.



Another thread in the dumpster fire. I keep looking here hoping for more information about the electric boat. Silly me.

[Noah Burns]

just not enough to stop coming back huh...


You do that Einstein. As soon as I see .... .... I lose interest anyway.

https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadReportByFileName?fileName=Government%20Presents%20National%20Program%20to%20Reduce%20Nitroge n%20Greenhouse%20Gas%20Emissions%20in%20Rural%20Areas%20_The%20Hague_Netherlands_NL2022-0035.pdf

[Shaun K]

just not enough to stop coming back huh...

Yea US agriculture documents from two months ago are very conspiratorial, aren't they ? Nobody wanted to have this conversion in this forum but you NPR "educated Types" keep throwing the red meat out there. Be well

[Noah Burns]

I'm always well bubba, take it easy.


Yea US agriculture documents from two months ago are very conspiratorial, aren't they ? Nobody wanted to have this conversion in this forum but you NPR "educated Types" keep throwing the red meat out there. Be well

[David - WI]

Another thread in the dumpster fire. I keep looking here hoping for more information about the electric boat. Silly me.

I would also like to see more information about the electric publicity stunt.

[PanRonnie]

according to this post battery,s are from octillion
https://www.speedonthewater.com/vision-marine-technologies-testing-electric-powered-32-foot-cat-with-100-plus-mph-goal-in-mind-at-shootout/
but which ones is a bit hard to see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5B5DzQoqYo
509706
probably put something custom togather for attempt
the caspian 88kw would be 600 kg ,just can,t imagine they used that
more something like 50 to 60 Kw but able to give peak volt and Amp for a short time

[Stoker boy]

It’s starting to remind me of, tales from the rodent. I think we have a long way to go before electric propulsion is advantageous.

[David - WI]

It’s starting to remind me of, tales from the rodent. I think we have a long way to go before electric propulsion is advantageous.

I agree. I think almost everybody understands how awesome electric motors are... it's the batteries that are the problem. We've had electric cars since the 1880's but the cost, weight, capacity, and charging time of the batteries made them impractical and not competitive with IC engines. Electric boats have been around just as long and had the same issues.

[Chaz]

Another thread in the dumpster fire. I keep looking here hoping for more information about the electric boat. Silly me.

How much more is there to know .. ???

32' Hellcat .. (tards still running from the fact that it was built with fuel tanks)

Has single ram clamp brackets , MAD/EFI cans , 3.0L Sportys .. a couple pans, cowls, and powerheads away from being a real boat . Probably would need new wraps to keep the lefties from committing suicide .. after seeing it go down the river in the present black and white theme ..

Maybe the "village idiot" can take a guess at how much blow will fit in the empty tanks .. since he's so mesmerized with Miami Vice inspired TV story lines .. :p

The N.O.A.H. has yet to comment about having to cough up $20,000.00 for a battery .. Matter of fact , where's the commodore .. at least he can do is be like the other tatds .. and call me names instead of saying something that actually shows more than being ... butt hurt .. :)

[John S]

Another thread in the dumpster fire. I keep looking here hoping for more information about the electric boat. Silly me.

Meh, let em chat amongst themselves. Not aboot the boat, but interesting nonetheless.

https://electrek.co/2022/09/10/aptera-publicly-debuts-the-gamma-version-of-its-solar-electric-vehicle/

[John S]

Like Ronnie said...It's morning again in America.

https://www.salon.com/2022/09/10/californias-ban-on-gas-powered-vehicles-huge-victory-in-the-50-year-for-the-electric-car/

[Chaz]

Like most patriots say .. let's let the idiots shine in the land of fruits and nuts ... all the way into the ground.

CARB has been fighting for 50 years .. seems to me if they actually had a good idea, it could have been accomplished within the first year ... :rolleyes:

I'm quite sure that all of Gov. newscum's homies, from Silicon Valley to the homeless on the streets of L.A. are lookin forward to buying a new $150,000.00 Ford dim-light 150 .

Chaz = rememberin, when 150 meant half ton .. not what it cost to buy one ... :thumbsup:

Just so I get it right .. It's ok to squat and take a s**t in the street, but not ok to drive an old school F-150 ... tards at the height of stupidity ! :o

Yea .. thats what I want outside my shops gate ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nvTgSW2L8Q

Chaz, fondly rememberin, when Oakland meant the Raiders and the roadster show ..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKIebSflncQ

Yes ... you remind me of the old busy bodies that belong to the HOA .. hate to see normal people and their pursuit of happiness. Way too stupid to see when you and your idea's are not wanted.
Tell ya what, you don't tell us what to drive on our streets .. and we won't tell you to clean the garbage up from your s**t hole, maggot infested state .. :cheers:

[dagodiver]

Sad another **** show of a thread. Such a cool setup. Awesome job all.
When you post boat stuff it gets nothing but the **** shows get a lot of attention.

Dago.

[Chaz]

Sad another **** show of a thread. Such a cool setup. Awesome job all.
When you post boat stuff it gets nothing but the **** shows get a lot of attention.

Dago.

Anything positive that could be said about "electric boats" could be done in a paragraph or two. Since we are on page 17 you should have picked up on the fact that there is much more at stake here than one boat on one day.
The real **** show would begin if the tards closed all gas stations ... tomorrow @ 7:00 am !

[CUDA]

Chaz YOU are the $hit in this show and like the full grown child that you are, must have the last word.

Your always working to have one of your ditto-heads give you a like, It's what you live for.

Your constant name calling is boring, childish and toxic.

[2thelake]

Chaz YOU are the $hit in this show and like the full grown child that you are, must have the last word.

Your always working to have one of your ditto-heads give you a like, It's what you live for.

Your constant name calling is boring, childish and toxic.

CUDA it wouldn’t be the same S&F without his .02 c. :D

Just like S&F wouldn’t be the same without your copypasta :D

[Chaz]

Chaz YOU are the $hit in this show and like the full grown child that you are, must have the last word.

Said the guy who posted .....right after me .. :p


Your always working to have one of your ditto-heads give you a like, It's what you live for.

That was last week that I informed you that no one gives a single **** about what you say ... still holding on to your losses ... ehh


Your constant name calling is boring, childish and toxic.

Only someone that is considered the "village idiot" would call someone :

$hit show

a full grown child

claims to know what motivates another

the membership ... ditto-heads

boring, childish and toxic

Don't look now cupcake , but you just did exactly what you accuse myself and others of doing .. to a much greater extent , or as it's more commonly known .. Gumby going full-tard .... :D

Which looks to me like your motivated by a mix of jealousy and sour grapes ... ;)

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.94dbb477502a3209c2c1d522338618da?rik=47zCkRZk%2flgIjQ&riu=http%3a%2f%2f4.bp.blogspot.com%2f-IRcmvF3ezr8%2fTu8e-J4LTHI%2fAAAAAAAABMI%2fY6FIhKMnEZY%2fw1200-h630-p-k-no-nu%2fSour-Grapes-Central.jpg&ehk=gHTsxzjzrx9bC0CNQnwk6bntF5n%2futMsHB3vmYesBrs%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

[David]

What type of motors did the boat use? Passenger vehicle EVs turn around 15,000 rpm. Would the boat have used similar motors? Was the 15000 rpm geared down before the Mercury lower unit or did they use low pitch props? Was the boat a very light layup or is it a boat that someone could use recreationally or for conventional racing once repowered with conventional engines?