electric catamaran boat to set world record [Archive] - Page 2 - Scream And Fly Powerboat and High Performance Powerboating Discussion Forums

CUDA

09-13-2022, 07:24 PM

[QUOTE=pcrussell50;3360147]lithium ion at jet speeds, jet ranges, jet load carrying … Not. A. Chance.

Some other unimaginable electricity storage scheme … maybe. Someday. Who knows when? But not lithium ion. It’s going to take something actually new and revolutionary. Not an ancient-tech, dried up, 30 year old dead end like lithium ion.

Electric Planes Are Coming Sooner Than You Think

Electric aviation is no flight of fancy: Leading airlines like United and EasyJet are onboard as early adopters, with the first U.S. commercial routes slated for 2026.

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You may be boarding an electric plane sooner than you think. The first rollouts for a major airline—with United—are due in 2026 (https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/united-airlines-buy-100-19-seat-electric-planes-heart-aerospace-2021-07-13/), and countries like Denmark (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59849898) and Sweden (https://fossilfrittsverige.se/en/roadmap/the-aviation-industry/) have announced plans to make all domestic flights fossil fuel–free by 2030.

has propelled the aviation industry ever closer toward a goal of viable commercial electric aircraft. United Airlines announced in July that it’s buying 100 19-seater, zero-emission electric planes from Swedish startup Heart Aerospace; they are set to take flight for short hops in the United States in 2026.
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Over in Europe, EasyJet’s partnership with U.S. startup Wright Electric has led to development plans for the Wright 1, an all-electric, 186-seat commercial passenger jet with an 800-mile range that’s targeted to enter service around 2030 (https://mediacentre.easyjet.com/story/13660/easyjet-s-partner-wright-electric-begins-engine-development-program-for-186-seat-electric-aircraft). Up sooner still, Wright Electric additionally announced in November plans for an electric 100-seater, the Wright Spirit, due out in 2026.
While those are some of the front-runners, a host of aviation companies—from fledgling startups to industry titans and government agencies like NASA (https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/programs_projects/electric_propulsion/index.html)—are actively pursuing electric commercial planes in hopes of achieving carbon emissions–free flight. Experts say the trajectory is an environmental necessity in the face of a worsening climate crisis.

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“We know that transportation is the single largest contributor to carbon emissions and to global warming right now. And flying is a big part of that,” says Jeff Engler, CEO of Wright Electric (https://www.weflywright.com/).
Lukas Kaestner, cofounder of Sustainable Aero Lab (https://www.sustainable.aero/), an accelerator in Germany that mentors global sustainable aviation startups, says the industry’s current fervor is representative of “the new zeitgeist, where global warming has become an issue that a growing number of people care about, and an issue people want to see addressed through action.”
Swiss bank UBS estimates a full quarter of the civil aviation industry will be hybrid or fully electric by 2035. The race to get electric commercial flight off the ground is on—here are where things stand.
Why electric aviation is taking off now

The aviation sector pumped about a billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere annually (https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation), prepandemic, or about 3 percent of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions. If left unchecked on its current fast-paced-growth trajectory, the amount of carbon from airplanes is projected to triple by 2050 (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/climate/air-travel-emissions.html).

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That puts the industry at odds with the net-zero carbon emissions deadline for 2050 set by the U.N. (https://unstats.un.org/sdgs/report/2021/goal-13/) In October, most major global airlines signed on to meet that target (https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2021-releases/2021-10-04-03/), but the limitations of current fossil-fuel-reliant aircraft technology is a setback for such decarbonization goals.
Venkat Viswanathan, a Carnegie Mellon University mechanical engineering professor and aviation battery expert (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04139-1), says that electric battery power is “going to give an avenue for addressing emissions, at least for a significant portion of aviation.” Yet he adds a caveat that it alone won’t resolve the carbon crisis: “I think there has to be many other pieces—many other competing technologies—that have to be considered for the full arc of the future of aviation.”
Aviation’s reach toward clean energy is coinciding with other areas of transportation, too. “The inevitable shift that’s already happened in the automotive world, that’s happening in the maritime world, we see the same trends in aerospace,” explains Engler, of Wright.
At the same time, governments are increasingly establishing policies to usher in a greener era for aviation. Scandinavia is leading the charge: Denmark and Sweden will make all domestic flights fossil fuel-free by 2030; in Norway, it’s 2040 (https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/norway-short-haul-flights-electric-deadline-no-fossil-fuels-climate-change-a8165526.html). France and Austria, meanwhile, have recently enacted bans on some domestic short-haul flights (https://www.politico.eu/article/travel-short-haul-flights-europe-under-fire-climate-change-cop26/).

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In the United States, the Biden administration is also making a push for slashing emissions (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/22/fact-sheet-president-biden-sets-2030-greenhouse-gas-pollution-reduction-target-aimed-at-creating-good-paying-union-jobs-and-securing-u-s-leadership-on-clean-energy-technologies/), with an emphasis on a clean-energy transportation sector. Yet climate activists like Charlie Cray of Greenpeace say U.S. policies “are only just starting down the runway.” Cray says that the administration has focused too much on sustainable aviation fuels (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/climate/sustainable-jet-fuel-biden.html) and rather “needs to prioritize the introduction and adoption of electric engine technologies for shorter passenger routes and cargo aircraft.”
What electric flight will look like

Electric planes, like electric cars, rely on battery-generated electricity for power, rather than standard liquid jet fuel. Yet today’s batteries aren’t nearly as energy-dense as jet fuel, requiring bulk and weight that pose significant aerodynamic challenges.
While batteries that are lightweight yet powerful enough for smaller electrified planes, operating shorter ranges, are increasingly viable, Viswanathan says that for larger airplanes, more significant battery breakthroughs—or alternative technologies—are needed. “You probably need like three, four times the weight of the airliner [in batteries] to be able to power that, which is why you can’t make them,” he explains.
Accordingly, the budding industry is most immediately targeting short-distance regional flights on smaller planes, which syncs up with a sizeable segment of aviation: About half of the flight routes operated worldwide today are less than 500 miles.

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Electric planes are proving to be more economical for airlines, too, with reduced expenses around fuel and maintenance. Engler says, “For the airlines, we expect lower costs over time, and they can pass those savings on to consumers.”
Michael Leskinen, president of United Airlines Ventures—the airline’s corporate venture fund—says the ES-19 planes it is purchasing from Heart Aerospace are 100 times less expensive to maintain, which offers “operational savings that can be passed on to our customers.”
Those lowered operation costs mean electric planes have the potential to revive short-haul routes to smaller regional airports, too, that were previously abandoned due to unprofitability. “Nineteen-seater aircrafts were the norm until a few decades ago for regional flights, until costs drove the industry to use larger planes,” explains Leskinen. He says the airline intends to use the ES-19s on more than 100 of United’s regional routes, out of most of its hubs.
Who the main players are

An estimated 200 global companies are currently pursuing electric plane projects, several of which have already made short and successful test flights. It’s a diversified competitive landscape where startups may have an edge—Sustainable Aero Lab’s Kaestner says that startups “are faster moving and much more flexible than the industry heavyweights.”

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Smaller two- to four-person electric planes for private, corporate, and air taxi–type service—primarily via eVTOL (electric vertical take-off and landing) aircraft—are already rolling out, with the first-generation technology backed by big names like Boeing, Airbus, NASA, and Toyota, along with a host of buzzy startups, including California’s Archer Aviation and Joby Aviation, Germany’s Lilium, and the U.K.’s Vertical Aerospace. United (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-11/electric-flying-taxi-backed-by-united-airlines-unveiled-in-l-a), American Airlines (https://www.businessinsider.com/american-united-investing-billions-in-new-type-of-aircraft-evtols-2021-7), Virgin Atlantic (https://www.virgin.com/about-virgin/latest/virgin-atlantic-partners-with-vertical-aerospace-to-pioneer-zero-emissions), and Japan Airlines (https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2021/10/26/japan-airlines-plans-evtol-operations-from-2025/) are among a growing number of airlines that have eVTOL orders on the books, with plans to debut a new kind of air taxi service as soon as 2024.
“Ten years from now, the flight from LAX to JFK will still not be electric, but you will probably be able to fly to the airport by electric air taxi at a very reasonable cost and emissions-free,” Kaestner says.
Six- to nine-passenger planes are also close to liftoff. Israel’s Eviation has developed a nine-seat electric plane called Alice, which regional U.S. carrier Cape Air is set to fly starting next year (https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/31/tech/alice-eviation-test-flight/index.html). Alice’s electric propulsion engine was built by its sister company MagniX, based in Washington State. Canadian seaplane carrier Harbour Air is also testing the MagniX system (https://www.harbourair.com/harbour-air-magnix-and-h55-partner-for-the-worlds-first-certified-all-electric-commercial-airplane/) to retrofit its fleet, with hopes of debuting commercial service on the newly electric seaplanes later this year.
United’s larger 19-seat planes from Heart Aerospace are planned for short-haul domestic routes, out of hubs like Chicago and San Francisco, in 2026; regional U.S. airline Mesa Airlines (https://investor.mesa-air.com/news-releases/news-release-details/mesa-invest-heart-aerospace-and-orders-100-all-electric-aircraft) and Finland’s Finnair (https://www.finnair.com/us-en/bluewings/sustainability/finnair-strengthens-collaboration-with-pioneering-electric-aviation-startup-heart-aerospace--2253482) have also signed on to purchase Heart’s ES-19s.

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The largest electric plane in the works is Wright Electric’s 186-seat Wright 1, which EasyJet intends to operate as soon as 2030. Wright also announced plans in November for its 100-passenger Wright Spirit, which will retrofit BAe 146 planes (from British aerospace company BAE Systems) with electric batteries.
Retrofitting existing planes with battery technology is considered to be a significantly quicker path through certification than starting from scratch. “It allows us to get to market much faster and start to impact the carbon footprint of the industry much earlier,” Engler says. He estimates the retrofit will reduce the federal certification process to half the time, if not less.
Where things go from here

Apart from the engineering hurdles around batteries, experts see other barriers against the widespread adoption of electric planes. There are stringent and lengthy certification processes with regulators, funding challenges, and an acclimation period for the public to consider the new technology as safe.
And then there is the issue that electric aviation, targeting smaller planes and shorter routes, won’t ultimately put the kind of dent that’s needed into the industry’s emissions reduction goals. “On the emissions side, 95 percent of the carbon footprint of the industry is airplanes larger than 100 passengers,” Engler says, explaining Wright Electric’s decision to target the development of bigger planes.

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Kaestner notes that since “transcontinental or even true long-haul operations are still out of scope for the foreseeable future,” cleaner emerging energies like sustainable aviation fuels and, further afield, hydrogen power, must be the industry focus for longer routes.
Hybrid-electric technology, which combines batteries with traditional jet fuel engines, is another promising strategy, with companies like California-based startup Ampaire and France’s VoltAero already developing hybrid planes.
“I think that hybrids are going to be an important bridge to hopefully, overall, all electric further down the road,” says Viswanathan, who explains that hybrids would offer fuel and energy savings, emissions reductions, and help get the public comfortable with electric flight, similar to what cars like the Toyota Prius have done for the automotive industry.
Experts say that consumers, too, hold the purchasing power to help drive a greener aviation industry. Overall, Engler says, “Customers are demanding cleaner, greener, quieter, lower-cost ways to fly.”

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Herwig Schuster, of Greenpeace, says that environmentally conscious travelers should think twice before flying and suggests more immediate policy measures are needed “to tackle the out-of-control emissions from the aviation sector,” like flight reductions, short-haul flight bans, and investment in alternative greener modes of transport, such as rail. Without more urgent action, he cautions, “Greener fuels or electric planes will only provide emissions cuts that are far too little or far too late for today’s demand.”
>>Next: An Electric Road Trip From L.A. to Las Vegas Is Easier Than You May Think (https://www.afar.com/magazine/an-electric-road-trip-from-la-to-las-vegas-is-easier-than-you-may-think)

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Chaz

09-13-2022, 08:06 PM

When you fit in the "tard" and "super tard" class .. you must split hairs .. and copy / paste a full page worth of useless garbage. :rolleyes:

Sad part is .. while you tards might think the coast is clear and maybe we Patriots might have forgot ... we can start over when and where ever we want without skipping a beat ...:p

MAGA Biotches ... :thumbsup:

https://i.imgur.com/bgsIE0fl.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrK-xEaKlY

John S

09-13-2022, 09:07 PM

pcrussell50 Just make sure to keep stacking them nickels.:D The guys designing the birds you sit in and watch the autopilot work see to have different opinions than you. Must have different math napkins to work off.:D

Chaz

09-13-2022, 10:54 PM

Clean up your streets you filthy pig .. :eek:

Before you say a word to anyone else about anything .. disgusting slop you commie swine lefties wallow around in .. :(

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 08:35 AM

Cuda's article sez: bolding bits are mine...
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Electric Planes Are Coming Sooner Than You Think [Not what you think, read your own article]

Electric aviation is no flight of fancy: Leading airlines like United and EasyJet are onboard as early adopters, with the first U.S. commercial routes slated for 2026. [Not what you think, read your own article]
What electric flight will look like:

Electric planes, like electric cars, rely on battery-generated electricity for power, rather than standard liquid jet fuel. Yet today’s batteries aren’t nearly as energy-dense as jet fuel, requiring bulk and weight that pose significant aerodynamic challenges.
While batteries that are lightweight yet powerful enough for smaller electrified planes, operating shorter ranges, are increasingly viable, Viswanathan says that for larger airplanes, more significant battery breakthroughs—or alternative technologies—are needed. “You probably need like three, four times the weight of the airliner [in batteries] to be able to power that, which is why you can’t make them,” he explains.
Accordingly, the budding industry is most immediately targeting short-distance regional flights on smaller planes, which syncs up with a sizeable segment of aviation: About half of the flight routes operated worldwide today are less than 500 miles.

It's not your fault, Cuda. You probably googled in good faith and this sensationalist clickbait article came up, or else it came in on your news feed. I get these all the time. It's designed to take your eye off of reality and make you believe something that isn't real. When you find articles like this, you have to actually read them... carefully, the whole article, because sometimes they actually tell you the truth, but they hide it deep in the article. In this case, the article you just posted tells you the truth. Read the part I bolded for you. It's right there in your article. It's the same thing I've been saying all along... the weight in batteries alone would collapse the airplane just sitting parked on the ground, with no passengers or cargo, much less actually getting airborne.

A quick word about short haul battery powered commuter airline planes... Even on short haul flights, Federal Aviation Regulations for paying passenger flights, you have to have the duration to:

1) Fly to your destination
2) then, fly to your most distant alternate destination (alternates are required if there is any chance at all of bad weather or low visibility)
3) then fly for 45 minutes thereafter (IOW you ALWAYS have to land with AT LEAST 45 minutes of flying time in your "tanks" ALWAYS, every flight.

Pilots that don't comply with this, lose their licenses, and airlines that do not comply with this, lose their operating certificates.

Now ask yourself, do you really think there are going to be battery powered short haul commuter airplanes, (LAX to San Diego, NYC to PHL, Orland to Tampa), taking paying passengers and operating legally, in just 3.5 years? I would bet against it. It took the FAA ten years to certify bio-jet fuel, and as reliable enough to carry human beings, and that didn’t even require mods to the engines. (Jet is engines can run on almost any liquid that can burn, some with mods but they can do it).

BUT the main point, and your own article admits it, there is NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER that you will ever fly a proper long haul jet flight, at jet speeds, on a lithium ion battery powered airliner.</main>
-Peter

powerabout

09-14-2022, 08:59 AM

My power trim is electric, from my lead acid battery powered by internal combustion, works great on a boat or aircraft

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 09:05 AM

My power trim is electric, from my lead acid battery powered by internal combustion, works great on a boat or aircraft

The iPads we use in the cockpit, with all our charts and flight plans and weather apps are electric too. And lithium. But that doesn’t mean the jets we fly are electric … or hybrid either for that matter, like one of the clickbait articles tried to suggest.

By the way, weight is everything in an airliner. YET, our aircraft batteries are still nickel-cadmium, not lithium which would be much lighter. Why? Fire. Lithium fires are the worst thing imaginable. Lithium burns nearly twice as hot as jet fuel.

EDIT: BTW, sorry if I’m nerding out here, but this stuff is right in my wheel house. First, I’m an airline pilot. Second, my education is as an engineer, with strong emphasis on math and physics. While I learn new things all the time about outboards here at S&F, this stuff we’re talking about here is what I know, and hopefully I'm paying it forward a little bit.

-Peter

Chaz

09-14-2022, 09:24 AM

Charge on the go ... ;)

https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305042930_624147665746079_6316922090566885465_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=sLdZBH-hYdUAX_VG5h8&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=00_AT8q3AZO0G002vUoPsklrAeoZ9x0higT2izwTxhkWJNXLw&oe=63275526

PanRonnie

09-14-2022, 11:29 AM

Would be easier to start with shipping before planes
Battery planes noop not with lithium
They better start electrifying plane support vehicles
That is already a challenge
As for planes plz read attached document as not many People seem to do

PanRonnie

09-14-2022, 11:44 AM

we had someone with a great idea here in the netherlands

https://youtu.be/Qul7xNU7Vms

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 12:13 PM

Would be easier to start with shipping before planes
Agreed. Of course it will double or triple the cost of shipping, (unless government puts even bigger taxes on diesel than they already do), but at least it will be physically possible with displacement hulls. With long haul jet travel, lithium propulsion is not even possible.

Battery planes noop not with lithium
100%

They better start electrifying plane support vehicles
That is already a challenge.
It is a challenge, yes. But it's already being done. My airline has lots of electric support vehicles. Yes they break down a lot, or the batteries run down quickly and there aren't enough charging stations to get them all back and running. But they do kind of sort of work. And the airline gets a tax break for using them, which helps because they are expensive. We still use diesel tugs at airports where we have to move planes more than about half a mile because the battery pushback tugs go flat too quickly for that work.

===

BTW, since this is a recreational boating forum, we can go through the calculations together about why or why not, lithium propulsion boating will or will not work for us. And the math is pretty easy too. We can do it together. After having done the calculations, I know that in our case, a lithium powered boat would not work for us. Maybe it would work for you? We can find out easily enough.

-Peter

Chaz

09-14-2022, 02:26 PM

I got a great idea ... :thumbsup:

Why don't we let the oil company's do what they do best .. drill for oil and refine it into many-many useful products ... that we use every day .. without government interference .. :thumbsup:
Can you think of one single thing the government gets involved in .. they they don't make worse .. ???? :nonod:
Ronnie, I understand that pizz regular gas cost's over $10.00 a gallon in the Netherlands , but again, that has more to do with government's than oil in Europe.
Fix the government(s) , and fuel prices will come down to where they belong.
Trying to develop pie-in-the-sky George Jetson technology to have cheap fuel will only have the same governments take control of that as well. It's the same here, January 1 2021 we turned our government over to idiots that are trying to go so far as to ban red meat because of cow farts. You can imagine how they feel about the oil industry. :(

I have been in merge situations that went from three lanes to two. Merge in 5 mile signs, merge in 1 mile .. then the orange cones that lead to either two lanes that move along at 50 mph .. or a bottleneck that takes an hour to creep thru.
I think we would be better off teaching the tards that dont merge early, that they are not special, they are not important .. if anything, they should have their license suspended for 30 days for being so stupid. How much fuel does it waste for so many cars and trucks to needlessly sit still running. Nine times out of ten, the idiots have tree hugger decal or other proof they belong to a left tard club. Then they are the first ones to scream about gasoline is the cause of smog .. :rolleyes:

I have studied up on hydrogen for a while now. It naturally got a bad rap because of it's use by the military. Which will be a hard handle to shake .. :)
About twenty years ago an elderly, friend / customer , brought over a badly used / abused / "Browns Gas" welder that was made in China. No instruction book, wires, no plug, just a single lead with a small torch that wasn't attached.

https://www.mypromolife.com/blog/2022/04/what-is-browns-gas-how-does-it-compare-to-hydrogen

It is said that with Brown's gas you can weld dissimilar metals together. metal to tile and ceramic, plastics .. bore laser perfect holes .. etc.
As well as use it for breathing treatment's and other health related issues .. which was why he was interested in it.
How it all worked was above my pay grade. If I need to weld something or bore a hole in it .. I have tools that do a good job, at a fair price. If I was to wait on the super-tech stuff to come online .. I would have had to move to California, so I too could be a bum on the street ... :o
We have a saying over here for those who do things azz-bakwards. It's called :
Putting the cart in front of the horse ... :cool:
So for idiots that think it's wise to declare war on the gas and fuel industry , decades before a "better" alternative is in place .. are just fools that cannot be trusted with much more than a lemon-aid stand .. :thumbsup:

John S

09-14-2022, 06:32 PM

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 07:29 PM

This is a boating site, let's get back on track. The polititards can post all they want. Aint_gonna_change_nuffin.

https://www.designboom.com/technology/electric-cruiser-x-shore-1-fast-charging-smart-tech-09-12-2022/

Agree. Which is why I stayed out of politics, stuck to the math and made this offer:

BTW, since this is a recreational boating forum, we can go through the calculations together about why or why not, lithium propulsion boating will or will not work for us. And the math is pretty easy too. We can do it together so you're not just having to trust me on faith. After having done the calculations, I know that in our case, a lithium powered boat would not work for us. Maybe it would work for you? We can find out easily enough.

The offer stands.

-Peter

John S

09-14-2022, 08:36 PM

The offer stands.

-Peter

Absolutely! I love learning new ****. I was simply emphasizing the never part, and meaning electric flight. You were more focused on the type of batteries, which o didn't notice (phone screen, even smaller attention span). Never is a long time, and all I was saying is so many things are possible the way technology is advancing. But by all means, whip out the napkin. Them maybe you can help me determine the the ending fork length with the offset changes on my MTB. It's either you or Google. :D

FYI, mr Crussell, not only is this a boating site, it's somewhere to have/poke fun and bs. Let's not be all cereal, like the polititards that infest it ATM.

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 08:40 PM

Absolutely! I love learning new ****. I was simply emphasizing the never part, and meaning electric flight. You were more focused on the type of batteries, which o didn't notice (phone screen, even smaller attention span). Never is a long time, and all I was saying is so many things are possible the way technology is advancing. But by all means, whip out the napkin. Them maybe you can help me determine the the ending fork length with the offset changes on my MTB. It's either you or Google. :D

FYI, mr Crussell, not only is this a boating site, it's somewhere to have/poke fun and bs. Let's not be all cereal, like the polititards that infest it ATM.

I’m also a downhill mountain biker. Fork length has never been an issue for me, with 200mm of travel. ;)

BTW, I never said there wouldn't be electric flight. There already is electric flight. Electric RC airplanes have been around as long as there has been radio control, so ... 100 years or so? Maybe 90? And today there is even lithium flight. But it's propeller planes, flying slow propeller speeds at low propeller altitudes and for very short times. Think, take your million dollar lithium aerobatic airplane up for a few minutes of looping and rolling then land it. If you're talking traveling long, far, fast, and high, it is not possible to build something that is lithium powered that will not collapse under it's own weight, even with no passengers or cargo, just sitting on the ground, much less actually get airborne and go anywhere. Your own and Cuda's articles said the same thing. THAT's why I said that it was not going to happen until some so far unimagined new technology comes along. But lithium is still the top dog, even after 30 years, and nobody has brought anything better to market yet. That is not the same thing as saying it will never happen. Just that it cannot happen with lithium, and that we haven't come up with anything better yet.

===

As to boating, here's the cocktail napkin:

-Battery capacity/range/duration:
The top-dog battery that you can actually buy, is Tesla's 100kWh long range battery for the Model S. There is 1.341 horsepower per kilowatt. So Tesla's top dog, $25,000-$45,000 battery* will make 134 horsepower for 1 hour. Or 200kW (268hp) for 30 minutes, etc.... If you are taking your catamaran on a record speed run, you can do 600kW (a little over 800 hp) for about ten minutes. You would probably have support boats to tow you back. Anyway You can divide up your 134hp for one hour, any way you like. That means from full 100% charge, to zero, dead in the water. That's not bad in a road car that only takes 20-25 horsepower to go 65mph. You can go for hours like that.

BUT...

How much horsepower does it take to run a planing hull boat? I think at least ten times as much as a car of equal weight, depending on the weight and hull design. And the drag goes up with the square of velocity. I promised simple math, so we can stay away from squaring for now. Anyway if a 4000lb car needs 20hp to go 65mph, a 4000lb boat probably needs at least 250hp to go 65mph. Maybe more. Maybe way more. But most of us probably don't have outboard boats that heavy. We can debate a few percentage either way, as I'm not 100% sure for heavy boats. Our 18 foot boat with a 150hp Merc does about an rpm match. At 4000 rpm it's about 40 mph. At 5000 rpm, it's about 50 mph. I have actually not run it out to the full 5500 rpm. But if at 4000 rpm it's taking say, 100hp to go 40mph, if we had the big dog, 100kWh Tesla battery in it, we could go 40mph from a full charge for 1:20 minutes and then be dead in the water. If we limit ourselves to 1 hour of planing at 40mph, or towing tubes at slower speeds but higher drag, we can use the rest for idling in and out of the no wake zone and have a few minutes to spare just so we're not worried about being at zero and still in the water. Our 18 foot boat is small and light. It's just right for two adults and our 8 and 12 year old girls. Any more and it's getting tight. So... maybe we could get by with the big dog Tesla battery as long as we don't do "all day on the lake", type boating. We usually do half-days, so ... Maybe... with a little range anxiety, we could squeak by. That's us.

(*It's tough to find out what Tesla actually charges for this battery or if they will sell you one if you don't own a Tesla, but maybe there's a way?)

-Now let's talk about weight
The 100kWh big dog Tesla battery weighs 1200 lbs, or about the weight of three, 430hp LS3 V8's. That alone takes it out of contention for us, because our 18 foot boat is not rated for that weight. If we put it in our boat, and never even got in it ourselves, we would already be in violation of our hull's USCG weight rating. So that makes it a non-starter for us, on both safety and legality rules. Not to mention space, but hey, we're cocktail napkin here, right? But if you have a boat that can float that kind of weight, AND carry all your people and gear, it might be OK for you. But at 134 horsepower for one hour, from full capacity to dead in the water, and in a big enough boat to float it, you'll be in for some rather short outings. Or maybe your boat is big enough to float 2500lbs of batteries (for two Tesla 100kWh batteries), plus all your people and gear? Then you could get 134 horsepower for two hours before being dead in the water. Mine isn't even big enough for one of them, so I'm out. And even if it was, it's not quite enough duration for one of our half-day outings.

I have left out any discussion of the added weight of cooling and charging systems, for the sake of simplicity, but those will add even more weight but are absolutely necessary to get the range/capacity Tesla claims, and to keep your battery from turning into a fire bomb. For example, I'm not sure the battery's computer safeties would let you could run it at or near full discharge rate, say 1000kW (which would take you from full to zero in six minutes), because of the risk of battery overheat and fire. Also, if you run too hard for too long, the battery will need to eat into some of it's capacity, in order to cool itself. If you boat in cold climates, the battery will need to eat into even more of it's capacity, to warm itself (this from a buddy of mine who owns a Tesla). Anyway, I've left that stuff out of this discussion in the spirit of cocktail napkin math.

So... Will it work for you? It won't for us. And our needs are modest.

-Peter

RiverRat71

09-14-2022, 10:30 PM

I’m also a downhill mountain biker. Fork length has never been an issue for me, with 200mm of travel. ;)

BTW, I never said there wouldn't be electric flight. There already is electric flight. Electric RC airplanes have been around as long as there has been radio control, so ... 100 years or so? Maybe 90? And today there is even lithium flight. But it's propeller planes, flying slow propeller speeds at low propeller altitudes and for very short times. Think, take your million dollar lithium aerobatic airplane up for a few minutes of looping and rolling then land it. If you're talking traveling long, far, fast, and high, it is not possible to build something that is lithium powered that will not collapse under it's own weight, even with no passengers or cargo, just sitting on the ground, much less actually get airborne and go anywhere. Your own and Cuda's articles said the same thing. THAT's why I said that it was not going to happen until some so far unimagined new technology comes along. But lithium is still the top dog, even after 30 years, and nobody has brought anything better to market yet. That is not the same thing as saying it will never happen. Just that it cannot happen with lithium, and that we haven't come up with anything better yet.

===

As to boating, here's the cocktail napkin:

-Battery capacity/range/duration:
The top-dog battery that you can actually buy, is Tesla's 100kWh long range battery for the Model S. There is 1.341 horsepower per kilowatt. So Tesla's top dog, $25,000-$45,000 battery* will make 134 horsepower for 1 hour. Or 200kW (268hp) for 30 minutes, etc.... If you are taking your catamaran on a record speed run, you can do 600kW (a little over 800 hp) for about ten minutes. You would probably have support boats to tow you back. Anyway You can divide up your 134hp for one hour, any way you like. That means from full 100% charge, to zero, dead in the water. That's not bad in a road car that only takes 20-25 horsepower to go 65mph. You can go for hours like that.

BUT...

How much horsepower does it take to run a planing hull boat? I think at least ten times as much as a car of equal weight, depending on the weight and hull design. And the drag goes up with the square of velocity. I promised simple math, so we can stay away from squaring for now. Anyway if a 4000lb car needs 20hp to go 65mph, a 4000lb boat probably needs at least 250hp to go 65mph. Maybe more. Maybe way more. But most of us probably don't have outboard boats that heavy. We can debate a few percentage either way, as I'm not 100% sure for heavy boats. Our 18 foot boat with a 150hp Merc does about an rpm match. At 4000 rpm it's about 40 mph. At 5000 rpm, it's about 50 mph. I have actually not run it out to the full 5500 rpm. But if at 4000 rpm it's taking say, 100hp to go 40mph, if we had the big dog, 100kWh Tesla battery in it, we could go 40mph from a full charge for 1:20 minutes and then be dead in the water. If we limit ourselves to 1 hour of planing at 40mph, or towing tubes at slower speeds but higher drag, we can use the rest for idling in and out of the no wake zone and have a few minutes to spare just so we're not worried about being at zero and still in the water. Our 18 foot boat is small and light. It's just right for two adults and our 8 and 12 year old girls. Any more and it's getting tight. So... maybe we could get by with the big dog Tesla battery as long as we don't do "all day on the lake", type boating. We usually do half-days, so ... Maybe... with a little range anxiety, we could squeak by. That's us.

(*It's tough to find out what Tesla actually charges for this battery or if they will sell you one if you don't own a Tesla, but maybe there's a way?)

-Now let's talk about weight
The 100kWh big dog Tesla battery weighs 1200 lbs, or about the weight of three, 430hp LS3 V8's. That alone takes it out of contention for us, because our 18 foot boat is not rated for that weight. If we put it in our boat, and never even got in it ourselves, we would already be in violation of our hull's USCG weight rating. So that makes it a non-starter for us, on both safety and legality rules. Not to mention space, but hey, we're cocktail napkin here, right? But if you have a boat that can float that kind of weight, AND carry all your people and gear, it might be OK for you. But at 134 horsepower for one hour, from full capacity to dead in the water, and in a big enough boat to float it, you'll be in for some rather short outings. Or maybe your boat is big enough to float 2500lbs of batteries (for two Tesla 100kWh batteries), plus all your people and gear? Then you could get 134 horsepower for two hours before being dead in the water. Mine isn't even big enough for one of them, so I'm out. And even if it was, it's not quite enough duration for one of our half-day outings.

I have left out any discussion of the added weight of cooling and charging systems, for the sake of simplicity, but those will add even more weight but are absolutely necessary to get the range/capacity Tesla claims, and to keep your battery from turning into a fire bomb. For example, I'm not sure the battery's computer safeties would let you could run it at or near full discharge rate, say 1000kW (which would take you from full to zero in six minutes), because of the risk of battery overheat and fire. Also, if you run too hard for too long, the battery will need to eat into some of it's capacity, in order to cool itself. If you boat in cold climates, the battery will need to eat into even more of it's capacity, to warm itself (this from a buddy of mine who owns a Tesla). Anyway, I've left that stuff out of this discussion in the spirit of cocktail napkin math.

So... Will it work for you? It won't for us. And our needs are modest.

-Peter
Dude, you need to quit ****in up everybody's "pie in the sky". RR

pcrussell50

09-14-2022, 10:53 PM

Chaz

09-14-2022, 11:20 PM

Yes, it's a boat site .. then straight into airplanes .. :rolleyes:

Boating ..

Which means I'd like to use my gas truck to take my gas powered boat to a local or semi local ramp of my choosing to go boating for the day and then home again.

Or use my motorhome to take my boat to anywhere I choose within the continental United States , for as long as I want .. without libtard gov interference. (declaring war on American produced energy)

Sadly, as mentioned multiple times, it is political. Because if they had their way, no gas would be sold. And certainly no gas or diesel powered boats would be allowed on the water. (think about that before the next knee jerk reaction)

Its been fun to watch the commie left wing idiots get backed in a corner, have no common sense response and have to resort to .. 10,000 word copy + paste essays about nothing. BTW, Calling one political, is political .. I know, in desperation you can't see that .. ;)

I think its great that inventors want to think outside the box. Use those projects to earn college credits. Don't shove wind up rubber band, slow charge solar, windmill, assorted bombs, at the American people .. decades before its ready. Thats just stupid.

I notice that no one has spent the day at the ramp, taking pictures of all the electric boats, of all shapes and sizes .. coming and going for the day ... then coming to this thread .. to show all the unique boats they saw .. Yep, the answer to why they dont is because there are .... zero electric boats out on the water for the day, none, nada ..

Well except for pig stye jons new hooptie ... :thumbsup:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9c/1c/fc/9c1cfce8332b16bff3e3e8143dcdd7fb.jpg

noli

09-15-2022, 06:20 AM

Oh, and one final thing to round out the discussion... The 100kWh Tesla battery? 100kWh is the same amount of energy as in 2.7 gallons of gasoline, and about 2.3 gallons of diesel. The more common, 75kwh Tesla battery like a lot of Model 3's is just about 2 gallons of gasoline.

-Peter

Wow , thanks for the info. didn't know the Tesla battery has that kind of energy density. The model 3 can reach 300 miles with the equivalent of 2 gallons of gasoline.

2 gallons of gasoline on my Camry gets me 70 miles

Tesla batteries win?

.

dagodiver

09-15-2022, 06:23 AM

First electric truck I built. About 12 years ago.
Fun project. We used it as our shop truck.
Did all of it in house. Every thing fit into a standard truck tool
box in the bed.

Dago.

noli

09-15-2022, 06:25 AM

.

dago,

just curious, what motivated you to build an electric truck 12 years ago?

.

dagodiver

09-15-2022, 07:14 AM

.

dago,

just curious, what motivated you to build an electric truck 12 years ago?

.

Needed a new shop truck and figured we could build one that
was electric for a lot less money and it would do everything needed
around town. Always liked playing with electric stuff.
Built my first electric Gokart at 12 years old from 4 golf cart batteries
and a starter motor from a small block chevy.

Dago.

noli

09-15-2022, 07:19 AM

.

Any pics of the go-cart?

.

pcrussell50

09-15-2022, 08:08 AM

Wow , thanks for the info. didn't know the Tesla battery has that kind of energy density. The model 3 can reach 300 miles with the equivalent of 2 gallons of gasoline.

2 gallons of gasoline on my Camry gets me 70 miles

Tesla batteries win?

.

It’s not that the batteries win. They lose to gasoline by an almost unbelievable margin. It’s that internal combustion is very inefficient. About 75 percent of the energy in a gallon of gasoline is wasted using IC.

So: batteries are extremely inefficient. The same energy as 2.7 gallons of gas is a 1200lb weight. But that horrible ratio is at least partly made up for by the inefficiency of IC.

In a road car, you can tolerate the heavy weight of a battery. In other modes like a boat or an airplane, you can’t. You can live with an 8,000 lb Honda Ridgeline (Rivian), and a 10,000 lb full sizes SUV (if they ever make on with a battery). But you can’t get by like that with a boat or an airplane unless they are just toys meant for a short period of fun: a drag boat or a 15 minute aerobatic flight.

EDIT: Since you bring this up, We should break this down for proper analysis. You have your propulsive device: in this case IC engine vs. electric motor
… and…

your energy storage medium: battery or petro fuel

Propulsion:
-IC engines only convert about 25% of the energy you give them, into propulsion
-electric motors are what? Up in the low 90’s or so

-So electric motors are about 70% or more, more efficient than IC motors-

Storage:
-Petro fuels (gasoline about 6lbs/gallon), 38kWh/gal = 0.16lb/kWh
-Tesla 100kWh battery 1200lbs/100kWh = 12lbs/kWh

12/1.6 = 75 (check my math) So the Tesla battery is 75 times less efficient than petro fuels, which is a 7500% difference

So while an electric motor is 70-75% more efficient than an IC motor, the battery is 7500% less efficient than petro-fuels. And THAT, is where the problem lies when weight counts, as in planing hull boating.

-Peter

Noah Burns

09-15-2022, 08:18 AM

It disgusts me to agree with you on pretty much anything (other than politics it would appear) but you are absolutely correct with this "sentence" here. Nothing the government touches, improves.

Can you think of one single thing the government gets involved in .. they they don't make worse .. ????

Chaz

09-15-2022, 08:31 AM

Wow , thanks for the info. didn't know the Tesla battery has that kind of energy density. The model 3 can reach 300 miles with the equivalent of 2 gallons of gasoline.

2 gallons of gasoline on my Camry gets me 70 miles

Tesla batteries win?
.

I just put the "energy density" equivalent of two gallons of gas, Tesla battery in my boat. Unfortunately, the "weight density" of the Tesla battery is that of ( as mentioned above, yet ignored) "three, LS-3 car engines".

You get a "slight tingling" feeling when initially coming aboard. It's a bit slow to get on plane. Only goes about 300 feet between charges ... but look at the bright side .. it makes the FJB crowd jump for joy when they see it. So much so that I'm getting a $50,000,000.00 skim .. err ... grant from the $300,000,000,000.00 they just stole from the tax payers.

The market tanked 1500 points while they were having their "inflation reduction" err ... "we got away with it" party, yesterday ... just sayin :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/tBKP15Wl.jpg

Chaz

09-15-2022, 09:38 AM

It disgusts me to agree with you on pretty much anything (other than politics it would appear) but you are absolutely correct with this "sentence" here. Nothing the government touches, improves.

Mr. Burns,

Life is too short to take any of this too serious .. like they say, take what you need and leave the rest .. :cheers:

dagodiver

09-15-2022, 10:31 AM

.

Any pics of the go-cart?

.

No sir. Way before I had any way of taking a picture.
Ive done 2 VW bugs also.

I square wire wound the 11" motor for fun. Tons of power. insane really for a uni/sheet metal body truck.

Dago.

WavetoWave

09-15-2022, 11:13 AM

Ten years from now they will laugh at how stupid we were to throw all this money into a non starter like electric power for cars and boats. As reserve power for a home or dedicated factory it’s viable. As soon as you make it Mobil it is not viable. I predict that hydrogen will end up being the power source that we end up using to replace petroleum. It’s already in the field and working fine just like propane. In certain applications it works great. Transportation is one. The company’s like Toyota are heavily invested in transportation and they don’t screw around spending foolishly. If ev’s were the end all be all they would not develop cars with hydrogen

The problem with that is Hydrogen is not good for energy storage and doesn't solve the energy problem because you still have to create hydrogen liquid or gas; by splitting water with electrolysis or crack hydrocarbons. Storing hydrogen takes up tons of space, is inefficient and not safe. They'be need trying to crack that code forever and batteries are better right now, for automotive. Boats are a different story.

WavetoWave

09-15-2022, 11:14 AM

I did a pretty thorough article on the details of this project. Ray Lee did a great interview with Shaun and Alex.

https://www.wavetowave.com/home/2022/8/31/vision-marine-technologies-and-shaun-torrente-amp-up-the-electric-speed-boat-record

noli

09-15-2022, 11:33 AM

.

Texas loves electric cars

Elon Musk's Tesla automobiles given the green light to erect another mega factory of high density electric car batteries

Tesla looks to invest $365M, create 162 jobs for battery refinery near Corpus Christi

Texas-Refinery (https://www.kiiitv.com/article/news/local/tesla-looks-to-build-refining-plant-for-batteries-near-texas-coast/503-5256dbcc-e7ed-4e10-a765-e01f29a3974d)

.

John S

09-15-2022, 01:25 PM

pcrussell50 Thanks for the info. Apparently the napkins in the pilots lounge are significantly bigger than the ones in the delta sky miles club :D And 200mm is damned near cheating. I'm building a CF hardtail w/ 120mm, so I can go out and show my buddies with full suspension the old skool way of how it's done. Either them or me is gonna get a good laugh.:D
dagodiver That's an awesome project. I'm obsessed with watching Guy Martins YouTube channel with the EV stuff. A local shop here will convert classic cars for around $20G. My 09 Tacoma isn't quite worth that, but the tech will trickle down eventually. The guys are great to chat with, and a wealth of info.

pcrussell50

09-15-2022, 01:55 PM

@pcrussell50 (https://www.screamandfly.com/member.php?u=47801) Thanks for the info. Apparently the napkins in the pilots lounge are significantly bigger than the ones in the delta sky miles club :D And 200mm is damned near cheating. I'm building a CF hardtail w/ 120mm, so I can go out and show my buddies with full suspension the old skool way of how it's done. Either them or me is gonna get a good laugh.:D

Well, 120mm is no slouch for a hard tail. Sounds pretty badass to me, actually. I bet it's got some decently slack head tube angle on it, too, no?

For the record, I'm not anti-battery. I just seek the right application for them. I have a battery skateboard, not a toy, but a rather serious one, and I ride it all the time. Just came back from a ride. I would have a battery scooter too, if I didn't already have two-stroke gas scooter that is 15 years old and still won't die. Plus, it's super light and battery scooters are a little porky. And my next motocross bike is as likely as any to be battery as well. I don't need the endurance for long rides, so a battery should work out rather nicely I think. We'll see.

-Peter

CUDA

09-15-2022, 02:20 PM

Well, 120mm is no slouch for a hard tail. Sounds pretty badass to me, actually. I bet it's got some decently slack head tube angle on it, too, no?

For the record, I'm not anti-battery. I just seek the right application for them. I have a battery skateboard, not a toy, but a rather serious one, and I ride it all the time. Just came back from a ride. I would have a battery scooter too, if I didn't already have two-stroke gas scooter that is 15 years old and still won't die. Plus, it's super light and battery scooters are a little porky. And my next motocross bike is as likely as any to be battery as well. I don't need the endurance for long rides, so a battery should work out rather nicely I think. We'll see.

-Peter
China is where all the new EV's are

https://youtu.be/tkOqIEUAlw4

cheap chit

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804230284334.html?spm=a2g0o.ppclist.product.2.6051eP6yeP6yyt&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%242%2C869.18%21US%20%242%2C639.65%21%21%21%21%21%40210312ef16632694612 953900eb9c9%2112000029108815747%21btf&_t=pvid:7931d964-30f9-4d77-831d-857e6dadb7c4&afTraceInfo=1005004416599086__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1663269461

noli

09-15-2022, 07:23 PM

.

509969

XstreamVking

09-16-2022, 04:40 AM

The problem with that is Hydrogen is not good for energy storage and doesn't solve the energy problem because you still have to create hydrogen liquid or gas; by splitting water with electrolysis or crack hydrocarbons. Storing hydrogen takes up tons of space, is inefficient and not safe. They'be need trying to crack that code forever and batteries are better right now, for automotive. Boats are a different story.

So solar farms wind generators the power grid and everything else is compact and elegant huh? Nuclear power is completely safe? Hydrogen the most abundant material in the world is difficult? Nice try but not making any sense...

noli

09-16-2022, 07:44 AM

.

how electric motors are built

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjhOkDut6I

.

CUDA

09-16-2022, 08:21 AM

My first real job at 16 was Industrial Motor Service, I worked the counter sales for the electrical wholesale division for electrical contractors, but they also sent me to the many factory's to pick up and return big rebuilt electrical motors, they would dissemble, cook parts of them in a big oven, then install new wiring,
There Hay Day's were when motors were changed from 25 Hz to 60 Hz, Canada kept supplying 25Hz for industries because Niagara Falls was originally 25Hz and the change over would be costly.

Tesla has said It's new carbon motor is the best on earth ...

Elon Musk has elaborated on details of Tesla’s new electric motor, the Plaid carbon-wrapped motor, and even teased an even crazier higher RPM version coming to the new Roadster.
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One thing we were hoping for during the presentation of the new Model S (https://electrek.co/2021/06/11/tesla-model-s-plaid-new-motor-tech-faster-charging-entertainment-features/) at the delivery event last week was more details about the new powertrain technology that Tesla developed under its Palladium program for the refreshed version of the electric sedan.
Interestingly, the CEO didn’t dive too deep into the new technology. For example, he only mentioned a brand-new battery pack without going into new details.
However, he did unveil Tesla’s new Plaid carbon-wrapped motor and discussed a few details about the new technology, which allows for smaller, more powerful, and efficient motors:
The motors are small enough to be picked up by a single person while also capable of achieving insane RPMs:
<figure class="wp-block-image alignwide size-large" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px -125px 1em; max-width: 100vw; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 16.8px;">https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-10-at-11.53.35-PM.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1000</figure>During the presentation, Musk briefly touched on the fact that this new motor is only possible thanks to a new machine that Tesla developed to be able to build it.
In a new series of tweets yesterday, the CEO elaborated on that machine:

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</ins>

“Fiber is wound over rotor at high tension load. Machine to do this was made by Tesla Automation.Carbon sleeve must put copper rotor in compression or it loosens at low temp due to differential thermal expansion. Preload is also helpful for maintaining precise gap to stator.”
Musk also expanded on the advantages of the new motor over its predecessors:

“Main advantage of this is a much stronger EM field compared with a rotor that is held together by metal (usually high strength steel). Other advantage is that rotor can go to higher RPM, as carbon sleeve (mostly) stops copper rotor from expanding due to radial acceleration.”
In short, the new carbon-wrapped rotor enables Tesla to push its new motors to a higher level of performance.
<figure class="wp-block-image alignwide size-large" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px -125px 1em; max-width: 100vw; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 16.8px;">https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/06/Screen-Shot-2021-06-14-at-5.57.18-AM.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1000</figure>Again in the same series of tweets, Musk claimed that Tesla’s new motor is “arguably the most advanced motor on Earth,” but he teased that the automaker is working on something even more powerful for the new Roadster:

“The Plaid carbon-wrapped motor is arguably the most advanced motor on Earth outside of maybe a lab somewhere. We have to keep some secrets! We have a few ideas for increasing torque & max rpm even further for new Roadster. Definitely fun & exciting engineering ahead!”
Previously, Musk had discussed Tesla using the same tri-motor powertrain found in the new Model S for the new Roadster, which could achieve greater performance based on the smaller form factor alone, but now it looks like Tesla could be improving the powertrain technology, too.
<figure class="wp-block-image alignwide size-large" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px -125px 1em; max-width: 100vw; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 16.8px;">https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/08/Tesla-Roadster-hero.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1000</figure>The CEO has recently said that the engineering of the new Tesla Roadster will be completed this year (https://electrek.co/2021/01/28/elon-musk-tesla-roadster-delayed-2022/) in order to enter production in 2022.
Tesla is supposed to have new engineering prototypes of the new electric hypercar this summer.

Chaz

09-16-2022, 08:34 AM

Ya Zeda, here is youn eletrik modda , I tell you no uze neea vassa ....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/efRBhMaNzFs/maxresdefault.jpg

Gone Kaputt ...

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.0fe43a3031c2a1c4bbac14babee0f5fb?rik=tlASze5WNj87mw&riu=http%3a%2f%2finsulationmachines.net%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2012%2f05%2fburned-out.jpg&ehk=dnbsD2fHDiPS93MRY2Os1xh4kvYVqySTAF%2bnTWGBrT0%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

Chaz = expected to see thousands and thousands of pictures of all kinds of electric boats this morning ... still nothing but the easily converted back to 3.0L , Hellcat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SwQ9iavJeI

PanRonnie

09-16-2022, 12:32 PM

The problem is not the motor but how you are going to power it
https://www.weflywright.com/technology#motors
Unless you have a fusion reactor in pocket size you are going to run into some walls
Precisely how many years ago everbody had to walk back to home in manhattan new york?

WavetoWave

09-16-2022, 12:50 PM

So solar farms wind generators the power grid and everything else is compact and elegant huh? Nuclear power is completely safe? Hydrogen the most abundant material in the world is difficult? Nice try but not making any sense...

No, the beauty of electric battery storage is it is completely agnostic to the source, it could be hydro, nuclear, solar, coal; doesn't matter. Nuclear is safe for sure.

Hydrogen is a tough cookie to crack, Toyota still can't pull it off after billions invested, the German companies have abandoned it mostly. It being abundant doesn't make it easy to isolate and store, gaseous or liquid. Tons of energy to do so. If it was possible, it would already dominate, but it has almost zero market use right now from a cost and efficiency standpoint.

PanRonnie

09-16-2022, 01:24 PM

Jared that is not really the case in europe
Germany is building hydrogen stations in ever faster pace
But they will probably be aimed at truck transport and the occaisional car

pcrussell50

09-16-2022, 02:23 PM

No, the beauty of electric battery storage is it is completely agnostic to the source, it could be hydro, nuclear, solar, coal; doesn't matter. Nuclear is safe for sure.

Hydrogen is a tough cookie to crack, Toyota still can't pull it off after billions invested, the German companies have abandoned it mostly. It being abundant doesn't make it easy to isolate and store, gaseous or liquid. Tons of energy to do so. If it was possible, it would already dominate, but it has almost zero market use right now from a cost and efficiency standpoint.

Agree. Hydrogen is a great fuel. But you either have to get it from petrochemicals, or split it off H2O, which is very energy intensive. Really, you could never do it to the worldwide scale you need without nuke. Sounds like you know this already.

The Germans have been playing with hydrogen for at least 20 years now. Before battery mania took hold. They are great at developing the tech in the lab. But nobody has solved the problem of getting it on on worldwide scale without bankrupting whole economies, or going all in on nuke.

One thing is for sure, if human beings survive the next thousand years, we will not be a spacefaring technological society without the atom. Period. The energy requirements will be far too great.

-Peter

WavetoWave

09-16-2022, 02:41 PM

Jared that is not really the case in europe
Germany is building hydrogen stations in ever faster pace
But they will probably be aimed at truck transport and the occaisional car

That's actually not true, they haven't even built 100 stations yet. You can't even buy a hydrogen car, other than experimental ones that are prohibitively expensive. BMW, Mercedes and Audi are going all in on battery EVs. Hydrogen is too expensive and inefficient right now. Lot's of companies are working on it, including Bosch but it's not viable yet. Not even close and might only work on a long range truck, still not a great solution.

https://www.glpautogas.info/en/hydrogen-stations-germany.html

PanRonnie

09-16-2022, 03:10 PM

pcrussell50

09-16-2022, 03:20 PM

Jared you are a bit late to the party :thumbsup:
I said in previous post battery cars yes but it,s going to need some serious main grid upgrade
Everything else without another battery chemistry not so much
And hydrogen still in it,s infancy
Betting on hydrogen see attached german goverment document

Yep. and we're going to have to get used to some BIG weights, even at that. Right now, most of the battery car market is rich man's toys, Tesla, Rivian, Porsche/Audi. A Ridgeline-sized Rivian with the long range battery is pushing just under 8000lbs (GULP!) If battery cars ever become affordable enough to where they become the standard car for the suburban family of four or five, can you imagine what a full-sized SUV with useful range would weigh? 10,000lbs maybe? Maybe 9000lbs for a minivan?

-Peter

David

09-16-2022, 04:04 PM

Chaz

09-16-2022, 04:47 PM

Hey .. I got a great idea !!

More oil in the USA than we could ever use , how about we send a message to Washington in November ... your fired !

New blood that will take their foot off the necks of the oil companys .. and the American people !

Save the battery's for flashlights :thumbsup:

John S

09-16-2022, 05:56 PM

And the tech wave just keeps on a rollin...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/harbinger-reveals-medium-duty-electric-truck-chassis-at-detroit-auto-show/ar-AA11SO0s

pcrussell50

09-16-2022, 06:16 PM

Air Canada, which is a private company, is buying hybrid airplanes from a Swedish company. Short haul only, but I never thought I would see electric planes or even hybrid planes.

Air Canada to buy 30 electric-hybrid airplanes, invest US$5-million in Swedish developer - The Globe and Mail (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-air-canada-to-buy-30-electric-hybrid-airplanes-invest-us5-million-in/)

Damn. I hate to be such a Debbie downer here, but these kinds of sensationalist clickbait stories are borderline cruel to people holding out hope for a different future.

Air Canada gave only $5M dollars for this. To them, that’s cheaper feel-good money than if you or I bought Girl Scout cookies to help the local troupe or pack. That plane… If it is ever built and sold, will be at least four times that, just for one of them.

The manufacturer, Heart Aircraft hasn't even built a full sized cardboard model much less a prototype with battery and engines, much less taxi-tested one, which has to happen before “first flight in 2024” as the article claims. If they go from nothing, to even a first empty test flight of a prototype in a year and a half, it will have been the greatest achievement in the history of aviation. Not. Going. To. Happen. At least not anywhere near the time scale they are publishing for investors. Oh and hybrid propulsion of paying passengers is ten years away at least, from the FAA buying off on it's reliability. The FAA takes engine reliability VERY seriously, and especially new designs that have never been certified before.

===

If you are interested in electric airliners, the leading candidate by years is the Alice, by Eviation. A 9 passenger commuter. In 2019, they “sold” 75 of them to Cape Air, to run richies on the short hops to Martha’s Vineyard, Cape Cod, Nantucket etc... At least they’ve actually built a non-flying prototype with running engines, which is where we are now. It was supposed to be in service by 2022. It has not flown yet. Not even a single hop with just a test pilot. They have had setbacks. In 2020 the only one they had, burned to the ground in … you guessed it… a battery fire. After that, they were supposed to get one off the ground with only a test pilot on board “in summer 2022”. Nothing yet. Eviation's press release from yesterday says they are going to begin "high speed taxi testing" soon. That is a very big deal and is the last phase before an actual flight. It can take a while though because at high speeds on the ground, aerodynamics begin to be a factor and they will have a lot of data to crunch through before they can let it leave the ground with the required degree of confidence. It will be years if ever, before the FAA clears them to carry passengers for money. And they are years ahead of everyone else, even though they have yet to even test fly one. Still, looking at their numbers, their plan could actually work, as long as they keep their flights under about 200 miles. But the cost, waste, and inefficiency ... Three times the power and weight to do the same work ... ouch!

A little more: Cape Air is currently flying nine passengers at a time in piston twin airplanes with 300hp per side. The battery plane will also carry 9 passengers but (if it ever comes to reality AND meets FAA certification), it requires 850hp per each of it's two engines to carry 9 passengers because of the weight of it’s battery.

And more still: In order to carry passengers for money, there are certain range and endurance requirements. Every time you take off, you have to be able to fly to your destination, then fly to your bad weather alternate, and then for 45 more minutes just in case, all without landing to refuel. With a 1200lb Tesla battery, you get about 5 minutes at 1700hp before you hit zero, no reserve. Of course once airborne you could probably throttle back to half that. It doesn’t use a Tesla battery, I just threw that in for reference. It’s battery weighs 8300lbs. About 30% more than the entire FULLY LOADED weight of the planes they fly now, and again that’s just for the battery alone. All told, it will weigh two and a half times as much to carry the same 9 passengers, as the piston Cessna 402's they use now.

===

Bottom line: These sensationalist click-bait articles come up all the time. None has ever matured. And probably won’t for a very long time. I’ve been watching it for years. If you are truly interested, let's mark today’s date and we can revisit when we can actually buy a ticket on a Heart ES-19 like the one in the link. I'd even tip my hat to see a youtube clip of a prototype actually getting airborne with a live human test pilot. At that point, they'd still be years away from carrying paying passengers, but at least having one built, and capable of getting off the ground at all would be quite an achievement.

The article says Air Canada gave $5M. That’s probably about what they spend on wear and tear for brakes in a week of flying. That $5M is throwaway marketing hype for pennies on the dollar when people read those headlines ... And actually believe them. In marketing, believing is way more important than producing.

-Peter

Chaz

09-16-2022, 09:20 PM

And the tech wave just keeps on a rollin...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/harbinger-reveals-medium-duty-electric-truck-chassis-at-detroit-auto-show/ar-AA11SO0s

MSDNC /// LMAO .. jonboy .. are you really trying to take the village idiot title away from the CRUM .. ???

Since none of you leftie lunes can come up with a single weekend cruiser .. I'll throw you a bone .. :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC8Ek_PRDEI

kelvin523

09-16-2022, 10:36 PM

yawn...

PanRonnie

09-17-2022, 01:49 AM

it,s why i don,t get the mercury V12
especially the the big multi engines boats would have been a start to electrify
electric outboards with LS3 generators inside running on LNG
A battery for in harbour operations which may or may not set your boat on fire
and then hopefully within the decade replace the LS3 generators with Fuel Cells
with hydrogen generation being done close to the harbour so it does not have to be trucked in
the Yasa motor doubles as generator so that is 24 kg for a 100/60 KW generator

https://youtu.be/q-So7hQdBOc

PanRonnie

09-17-2022, 04:49 AM

it would be even better with the effeciency of the oppossed piston engine for immidiate future
instead of the LS3 but that engine still has to come mass market

https://youtu.be/q5P1E_SNrmE

John S

09-17-2022, 11:25 AM

I looked around a little bit, but it would be interesting to know if they put a full battery set in the vision boat, or limited it to stay light. Same as you'd do with an ICE mota. I doubt any of them are running full tanks. Can't wait to hear what Darris says when someone sets up an A-bote with electric. He was quite opposed to 3L hanging off the transom, so....:D

The lake by my house that I paddle board on is pontoon central. More and more are going to EV outboard. Chatted with a guy that threw me a beer one day that had one, he loved it for that application. Then he did a fly by to show me the speed, not thinking aboot blasting me with his wake. I got a good laugh out of it. And another Modelo when he realized he almost flipped me.:D

pcrussell50

09-17-2022, 12:02 PM

I looked around a little bit, but it would be interesting to know if they put a full battery set in the vision boat, or limited it to stay light. Same as you'd do with an ICE mota.

With lithium, you can only do that to a limited degree. Because you need “buffer” battery capacity when you are running at high discharge rates, to keep from turning into a fire bomb.

IOW, if you have a Tesla that can do a drag race in ten seconds, you can’t just put in a batter with that plus a little extra like say 20s worth (floored). Or you risk fire.

-Peter

John S

09-17-2022, 12:47 PM

I get that. I was just wondering if the battery was calculated to the purpose it was serving, or if it was a turn key recreational setup. Weight is always a consideration in what we do. I'm using a kitchen scale as we speak on my bike build, staring at my drill, wondering if I cryo treat the cranks and steer tube, if they would withstand a few "ventilation " holes. :D

Forkin' Crazy

09-17-2022, 12:59 PM

it would be even better with the effeciency of the oppossed piston engine for immidiate future
instead of the LS3 but that engine still has to come mass market

https://youtu.be/q5P1E_SNrmE

With all those straight cut gears, I bet it is noisy! That design has been around for years. I haven't seen one run yet.

CUDA

09-17-2022, 01:11 PM

All the garbage trucks around here use natural gas now...

Cummins

https://youtu.be/t5Lqmes1ztQ

pcrussell50

09-17-2022, 01:16 PM

I get that. I was just wondering if the battery was calculated to the purpose it was serving,

No reason you couldn’t do just that. Especially in a track environment where you don’t have to meet DOT or NHTSA safety margins.

-Peter

Chaz

09-17-2022, 04:36 PM

yawn...

Thanks for makin my point Peeair .. electric boats = boring :D

Ronnie,
The Briggs genny .. that would be a tried and true iron 350 Chevrolet. Dual plane intake manifold .. and the best feature, the iron exhaust manifolds have had the stupid EPA smog tubes (and accompanying pump) removed and pipe plugs installed .. see how nice and smooth it runs .. :thumbsup:

Apposed motor .. not in production yet .. Humm, sounds a lot like all this wind up rubber band .. George Jetson .. Fantasy flight with nonexistent battery's non-sense. :rolleyes:
I have a question about all this gibberish .. If CRUDS aunt was his uncle .. would he/she have taught him to chase waste management trucks at such an early age ... just to get a good whiff .. :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/W7nC9KDl.jpg

kelvin523

09-17-2022, 05:50 PM

Ha; I think all the points have been made, cool details in this thread. I tinker with my 36" Miss Geico running 115+ with 6000ma 6s i get about 30 minutes runtime; the batteries are about 2/3 of the weight of the boat I had a serious marine fire about a week back.

I appreciate the dedication; the reality is boats are not cars (roll coefficient), nor airplanes (bernouli's effect). Fundamentally boats are measured by gallons per mile; even in ground effect; they are incredible inefficient machines. Thought about turbine/abu; with motor drive just to heavy. Looking out a bit personal water crafts and pontoons may have application in near future. Do like the hydrogen dialog; Nasa still can't get it right with Artemis.

wettek

09-17-2022, 06:34 PM

All the garbage trucks around here use natural gas now...

Cummins

https://youtu.be/t5Lqmes1ztQ

Still a fossil fuel, burning in an internal combustion engine.

2thelake

09-17-2022, 06:56 PM

kelvin523

09-17-2022, 08:10 PM

You own a Zelos? :) The shop is out of AU; running upgraded dynamite marine. example of Zelos hitting 107 ; stock elec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQC1ZcBzTLY

CUDA

09-18-2022, 12:26 AM

Still a fossil fuel, burning in an internal combustion engine.

But over 90% better than standards' call for, near ZERO emissions, batteries have a few more years development especially for big trucks.

BarryStrawn

09-18-2022, 08:23 AM

Still a fossil fuel, burning in an internal combustion engine.

Natural gas is a fossil fuel but the methane content is the combustion fuel and is also available from "sustainable" processes. NG is just methane with impurities.

Chaz

09-18-2022, 08:40 AM

Still a fossil fuel, burning in an internal combustion engine.

Wet, you have to go slow with him. He's just now learning why we put gas in the car , and LP in our BBQ grill's .. :D

I will give him credit. For as dim as his light shines, he has come to this stunning revelation ... :rolleyes:

CRUD quips :

batteries have a few more years development especially for big trucks.

PS .. Don't forget, this is "National Cheeze Burger" day !

Show your patriotism, and eat a double out in public for all to see. So far it's not illegal ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8H4EL6T2qc

wettek

09-18-2022, 08:42 AM

Natural gas is a fossil fuel but the methane content is the combustion fuel and is also available from "sustainable" processes. NG is just methane with impurities.

I am in the management team of one of the largest LNG plants in the world. Thankyou for explaining to me how it all works.

John S

09-18-2022, 11:22 AM

Chaz

09-18-2022, 11:57 AM

I'm starting to get the feeling this isn't just a fad.:D Every time I pass a golf course, I see an EV motorsports park just crying to be freed. This is for road, but the motocrossers are gaining ste as well.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/what-hondas-aggressive-electric-motorcycle-plans-mean-for-the-us-market

Pro golfers walk the course ... fattard libs like yourself, ride in slowazz carts .. see the diff :p

BTW, what's a "ste" .. ???

My vote is ... Super Tard Engineering

As in : motocrossers are gaining in super tard engineering as well .. :rolleyes:

Chaz

09-18-2022, 12:04 PM

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by BarryStrawn https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3360668#post3360668)
Natural gas is a fossil fuel but the methane content is the combustion fuel and is also available from "sustainable" processes. NG is just methane with impurities.

I am in the management team of one of the largest LNG plants in the world. Thankyou for explaining to me how it all works.

Thats how it works, wettek. The dumbazz wokies on the left, work very hard to show experts in the energy sector just how dumb they really are .. :thumbsup:

CUDA

09-18-2022, 12:05 PM

Agreement Reached to Standardize Swappable Batteries for Electric Motorcycles

March 26, 2021
Motorcycle

https://global.honda/content/dam/site/global/newsroom/cq_img/news/2021/2210326khonda.jpg

https://global.honda/content/dam/site/global/newsroom/cq_img/news/2021/2210326kawasaki.jpg

https://global.honda/content/dam/site/global/newsroom/cq_img/news/2021/2210326suzuki.jpg

https://global.honda/content/dam/site/global/newsroom/cq_img/news/2021/2210326yamaha.jpg

Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.
Suzuki Motor Corporation
Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.

March 26, 2021 - The Swappable Battery Consortium for Electric Motorcycles (Consortium) has reached an agreement to standardize swappable batteries and replacement systems, allowing battery sharing and paving the way for increased adoption of electric motorcycles in Japan.

The Consortium was established by Honda Motor Co., Ltd., Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd., Suzuki Motor Corporation and Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd. in April 2019, aimed at increasing the adoption of electric motorcycles in Japan. Since its inception, the Consortium has been formulating the standards for mutual-use swappable batteries and their replacement systems, as a solution to the issues preventing widespread adoption of electric motorcycles as a more environmentally friendly and convenient form of mobility - the drive range and reduction of charging time. In order to establish the convenience and effectiveness of mutual-use swappable batteries, the Consortium has been cooperating since last year with the “e-Yan OSAKA” field tests conducted by the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association's Electric Motorcycle Promotion Subcommittee in collaboration with Osaka Prefecture and the national university corporation Osaka University, aimed at popularizing and increasing the adoption of environmentally-friendly electric motorcycles.

Parts of the common specifications agreed upon are compliant with the Society of Automotive Engineers of Japan, Inc. Organization (JASO) technical paper TP21003 issued on March 19. The Consortium will conduct technical verification and standardization of mutual-use swappable batteries, based on these common specifications. With the heightening worldwide demand for the electrification of mobility to realize a carbon-neutral society, the Consortium will work hand in hand with the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association to realize international mutual-use (international standardization).

As environmental awareness increases globally, the Consortium believes that cooperative consideration and promotion within the entire motorcycle industry, to build an environment for widespread adoption within the motorcycle industry, is vital to motorcycles continuing to be the customers’ mobility of choice, and aims to contribute to the realization of a carbon-neutral society.

■ Noriaki Abe | Consortium Representative Secretary, and Managing Officer, Motorcycle Operations, Honda Motor Co., Ltd.

“This agreement for the standardization of mutual-use batteries is an achievement made possible through the four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers working together over the past two years. I am grateful to all those associated with the Consortium and the Society of Automotive Engineers of Japan, Inc. for their understanding and support. While we will continue cooperation to build an environment allowing battery mutual-use based on our agreement, we will also be competing with each other to develop attractive products that meet the needs of our customers. Through our efforts in both cooperation and competition, we will work towards the widespread adoption of electric motorcycles to realize a sustainable society.”

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pcrussell50

09-18-2022, 12:40 PM

batteries have a few more years development especially for big trucks.

A word about this… there are two roads of development here:
1) improved lithium ion chemistry … this is likely a dead end pursuit at least in vehicles for the carriage of human beings. Lithium ion is thirty year old technology with thirty years of the finest minds in industry trying to both improve it’s horrific energy density or replace it with something better. The latter has gone nowhere so far. As for improving the energy density, we are already at a point where doing so, makes it even more chemically unstable than it already is, and thus more prone to uncontrollable, white-hot fire. This is a big problem when you are seeking approval to carry human beings. Model cars and airplanes or off road, recreational vehicles are a different story.

2) the other area for improvement is in form-factor and packaging of lithium ion cells and the required cell state-monitoring and heating and cooling systems to keep them from … you guessed it… bursting into a white hot fire

IMHO, I don’t think we can push lithium ion chemistry much further before it becomes unacceptably risky from a fire perspective. The improvements, such as they are, will come from packaging and cooling and heating and individual cell monitoring.

BTW, my electric skateboard originally came with individual cells, like a say a Tesla or a Leaf. I have since converted to lithium polymer like the RC crowd uses. It is smaller and lighter than lithium ion cells. But MUCH more prone to fire. But I have sophisticated individual cell monitoring during charging, charge slowly, and figure that if it does catch fire while I’m riding it, there no vehicle easier to escape from than a burning skateboard.

-Peter

John S

09-18-2022, 01:05 PM

BY LAND! BY SEA! And as I've learned thanks to Mr Crussell, not quite by air.:D The cart ain't in front of the horse, the thoroughbreds are pulling the cart, and dragging the kicking and screaming asses behind it. :D

https://plugboats.com/evoy-225kw-electric-outboard-takes-cannes-storm/

pcrussell50

09-18-2022, 01:43 PM

.

Rey Marino (may he rest in peace) would be very proud right about now to see his work become a world record holder

SpeedOnTheWater Electric Hellkat (https://www.speedonthewater.com/vision-marine-technologies-testing-electric-powered-32-foot-cat-with-100-plus-mph-goal-in-mind-at-shootout)

"Vision Marine Technologies Testing Electric-Powered 32-Foot Cat With 100-Plus-MPH Goal In Mind At Shootout (https://www.speedonthewater.com/vision-marine-technologies-testing-electric-powered-32-foot-cat-with-100-plus-mph-goal-in-mind-at-shootout/)"

https://s9d2v9t9.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/vision32_1120-1024x457.jpg

508984

I don’t have any seriously fast boats. Fastest I’ve ever driven is maybe 60.

But this 32 foot cat going over 100mph on only 360hp sounds super impressive. Does that sound right? This 32 Skater has over 1000hp. https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2008-skater-328-8468434/

Does anyone actually only put 360hp on a 32 foot cat?

-Peter

XstreamVking

09-18-2022, 03:02 PM

The motors were 320 hp each so quite a bit of power.

pcrussell50

09-18-2022, 03:18 PM

Was just looking up some stuff about the Vision 180hpE outboard:

Of course, those benefits do not come without their cost. The full E-Motion 180E package prices in at a cool $78,990 – and that's US dollars, not Canadian. That breaks down to $26,995 for the motor and $51,995 for the battery, charger and user interface kit. The hefty price tag doesn't look quite so expensive next to the NOK698,000 (approx. US$83,900) price of the Evoy Pro with 63-kWh battery pack

The 63kWh battery pack gives you about 85hp for one hour, to dead in the water. If the battery pack weighs proportional to Tesla batteries, it’s going to be 750lbs. Just for the battery. These specs take it out of contention for our family (me wife two little girls), recreational needs. Due to weight and range.

-Peter

pcrussell50

09-18-2022, 03:31 PM

The motors were 320 hp each so quite a bit of power.

Interesting. In the promo photo above, they are 180’s. But your info certainly clears up how a 32 foot cat could reach 100mph. Thanks for that. 360hp seemed a little thin.

That and Mr. Johns’s plugboat site said that the Evoy 305 hp (225kW) was “the most powerful electric outboard ever put on the water.” And as of eight days ago, it was only a prototype. If that statement is true, it is in conflict with the 320hp Visions already on the 100mph cat.

-Peter

David - WI

09-18-2022, 03:41 PM

There is another thread here with a 32‘ Hellcat going 102mph with two 300hp outboards... so 640hp seems about right?

Chaz

09-18-2022, 10:47 PM

$85,000.00 a side .. without installation parts and labor. Don't forget you still need 15" mid's, clamp brackets, lower units and props. And of course a boat .. ;)

Looks like that knocks ..

home made CRUD

and little jon boat

out of the running ... As always, just parrots for the woketard left .. :p

P-50 , if you read the thread ... :rolleyes:

You will see that they are 180's on double voltage .. as a witness to the run stated:
Boat was towed to the staging area .. cut loose .. and nose dived before the 3/4 mile finish line ... pretty weak for a million dollar business card ... :o

Good news for woke thiefs .. Crooked hildabeast's main man is in charge.
Pin head John (the other one) holds the purse strings to fight a problem that doesn't exist .. Plenty of money for "grants to nowhere" get em while there hot ..
Mid-terms will be here before ya know it .. :thumbsup:

https://i.imgur.com/mbkRYZel.jpg

John S

09-19-2022, 08:30 AM

wettek

09-19-2022, 08:47 AM

Chaz

09-19-2022, 09:06 AM

Or just stack em in the mud .. How's that water taste in Kookafornia .. ???

Dumbazzes ... :rolleyes:

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/06/Blueindy-crushed-electric-cars.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1600

PanRonnie

09-19-2022, 11:22 AM

The motors were 320 hp each so quite a bit of power.
i read the same thing somewhere to but can,t find it anymore
however the battery is custom according to the website from vision marine
could be that the stock controller was not up to the task but the stock motor could handle higher output
it would be hilarious offcourse if they installed a custom motor under that cowling :rolleyes:
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=300?osCsid=3580c11f9c02599537bd76fda58414ba

pcrussell50

09-19-2022, 12:18 PM

Perfect time to rip that old smoker out of your old hotrod, and bring it in to the new century. The only smoke you'll see is from the tires. :D

https://carbuzz.com/news/new-ev-crate-motor-will-give-an-easy-590-hp-to-any-classic-car

Weeelll... that's ... not exactly a fair representation of reality. Both batteries and electric motors pre-date IC engines by several decades. Further, in the infancy of automobiles, battery cars were everywhere. But they were ancient tech, and could not compete with the new tech (which was IC) when it arrived. So battery cars failed under their own weight, so to speak. ;)

The same problems with battery cars from 130 years ago are the problems today: short range or massive weight, and… expensive. Which is fine for rich man’s lifestyle toys, like Tesla or Rivian. The same rich men who probably also have a full sized petrol SUV or a diesel 1-ton. On the everyday, boring reliable appliance front … I must see 50 Teslas for every Leaf or Bolt. Battery cars are still too expensive and too inconvenient for the ordinary bloke working a service industry job, living in an apartment and parking on the street.

-Peter

PanRonnie

09-19-2022, 12:43 PM

currently it is more expensive in europe to charge your car than fill it up with petrol
but maybe it was not a wise idea to couple electric pricing to gas pricing! :confused:

https://youtu.be/v071sCp-xrs

John S

09-19-2022, 03:55 PM

Progress...

https://www.benzinga.com/news/22/07/28090916/about-quarter-of-us-electricity-comes-from-renewable-energy-sources-elon-musk-has-this-comment-on-da-1

CUDA

09-19-2022, 06:03 PM

Pro golfers walk the course ... fattard libs like yourself, ride in slowazz carts .. see the diff :p

BTW, what's a "ste" .. ???

My vote is ... Super Tard Engineering

As in : motocrossers are gaining in super tard engineering as well .. :rolleyes:

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

Shaun K

09-19-2022, 07:28 PM

e-bike-sparked-queens-house-fire-that-killed-8-year-old CBS NewYork

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUtorXTnM5o

John S

09-19-2022, 07:57 PM

e-bike-sparked-queens-house-fire-that-killed-8-year-old CBS NewYork

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUtorXTnM5o

Gotta love sensationalism. Just like politics, look for one example, pass it on as the norm. Don't much matter. It's here, and you ain't stopping it. Oh, now do the same area, natural gas explosions. ;)

As I've said, I'm in construction, with around 100 people minimum on any given day. I have not seen, not heard of one failure like that. Nor have any of my friends in the trades. In the wrong hands, bad shizz happens.

Shaun K

09-19-2022, 08:24 PM

pcrussell50

09-19-2022, 09:47 PM

Gotta love sensationalism. Just like politics, look for one example, pass it on as the norm. Don't much matter. It's here, and you ain't stopping it. Oh, now do the same area, natural gas explosions. ;)

As I've said, I'm in construction, with around 100 people minimum on any given day. I have not seen, not heard of one failure like that. Nor have any of my friends in the trades. In the wrong hands, bad shizz happens.

Poor Mr. Johns. You can’t win for losing, mate. It’s coming… And not because of a single example, but because of increasingly many examples. In Europe they are already starting to ban battery cars from parking in underground parking garages. Why? White hot fires that can’t be put out without heavy equipment, and difficulty getting the big equipment in tight garages with low ceilings. The fear with white-hot lithium fires is structural damage that could cause building collapse or severe damage.

-Peter

noli

09-20-2022, 04:53 AM

.

the electric planes are coming ..

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/air-canada-buy-30-electric-planes-heart-aerospace-2022-09-15/

510227

Shaun K

09-20-2022, 06:11 AM

.

the electric planes are coming ..

"Sweden-based Heart's electric-hybrid aircraft under development will have capacity for up to 30 passengers and generate zero emissions when they enter service, which is expected in 2028, Canada's largest carrier said in a release."

Read More -" Under the Paris accord, countries agreed to limit the rise in global temperatures from pre-industrial levels to 2 degrees Celsius and preferably to 1.5 degrees. To do that, scientists say the world needs to cut emissions to net zero by 2050."

All this progress predicated on lies to save the earth right ? :rolleyes: Of course state media Reuters have pictures of an Airbus for the readers ;)

But let me translate that anyway, - these are the future planes for people like Justin Trudeau, john Kerry & Gavin Newsome who fly around in carbon spewing private jets right now. But "Our" commercial flying days will be over for the good of mother earth" .

Oh but these comments are sooo political, you "aint" stopping progress buddy !!!!!! :D -Land of Sunny

John S

09-20-2022, 06:26 AM

Weeelll... that's ... not exactly a fair representation of reality. Both batteries and electric motors pre-date IC engines by several decades. Further, in the infancy of automobiles, battery cars were everywhere. But they were ancient tech, and could not compete with the new tech (which was IC) when it arrived. So battery cars failed under their own weight, so to speak. ;)

The same problems with battery cars from 130 years ago are the problems today: short range or massive weight, and… expensive. Which is fine for rich man’s lifestyle toys, like Tesla or Rivian. The same rich men who probably also have a full sized petrol SUV or a diesel 1-ton. On the everyday, boring reliable appliance front … I must see 50 Teslas for every Leaf or Bolt. Battery cars are still too expensive and too inconvenient for the ordinary bloke working a service industry job, living in an apartment and parking on the street.

-Peter

America must not have gotten the memo. In the last three years, I have built three buildings, all with underground EV parking/ charging. Increased fire protection in that area. See how the process works, mate? Problem... Engineering.... Solution. Like I said, all the autos are retooling their plants, building battery facilities, renewables are growing by the day. But I can't win? Heh. Like the lone Japanese soldier holding his post after WW2 was long lost, you guys just haven't accepted the news yet. Heh ��

Shaun K

09-20-2022, 06:32 AM

America must not have gotten the memo. In the last three years, I have built three buildings, all with underground EV parking/ charging. Increased fire protection in that area. See how the process works, mate? Problem... Engineering.... Solution. Like I said, all the autos are retooling their plants, building battery facilities, renewables are growing by the day. But I can't win? Heh. Like the lone Japanese soldier holding his post after WW2 was long lost, you guys just haven't accepted the news yet. Heh ��

LOL ! What's it all going to run on John S ? Thousands of Wind Turbines in the San Francisco bay ? Please do tell ! The Land of Sunny power grid is dog sht right now.

XstreamVking

09-20-2022, 06:47 AM

When an idea is so good you have to force it on people by coercion and deceit.....you know the whole things gonna be a disaster of epic proportions.

Noah Burns

09-20-2022, 07:14 AM

XstreamVking

09-20-2022, 07:24 AM

I guess they will use holding patterns on the kerosene burners and let the electro planes land first. Don’t see where they describe the usual reserve air time that all flights are required to have. They leave small details like this out for some reason

Shaun K

09-20-2022, 07:39 AM

I am still curious how the claim of "zero emissions" can be made over and over again when these things require something that omits emissions to generate the power that they need.

"Sweden-based Heart's electric-hybrid aircraft under development will have capacity for up to 30 passengers and generate zero emissions when they enter service, which is expected in 2028, Canada's largest carrier said in a release."

Noah, Xstream pointed out what's pushing this "green" messaging in two appropriate words. It's all double speak and lies. The truth of the matter is these people pushing these policies want the population funneled down to ONE power source that can be completely controlled centrally, physically & price wise and that would be electric. Regardless if natural gas plants are always part of that equation to produce that electric isn't important to them. Sorry for the reality today but the electric BS gets tiring.

David

09-20-2022, 07:46 AM

Zero in some areas is likely. Where I live very little electricity comes from gas and none from coal. My expectation is that by the time the plane is ready for prime time (I am not holding my breath LOL) Ontario will have zero emission electricity. More likely zero emission electricity well before electric planes are ready, if that ever happens.

I am still curious how the claim of "zero emissions" can be made over and over again when these things require something that omits emissions to generate the power that they need.

"Sweden-based Heart's electric-hybrid aircraft under development will have capacity for up to 30 passengers and generate zero emissions when they enter service, which is expected in 2028, Canada's largest carrier said in a release."

David

09-20-2022, 07:49 AM

Today's sign of the apocalypse. A company called Nikola has sold 93 electric transport trucks, intended for short haul. I found the number 93 as total production on a recall notice on the NHTSA database. And yes I check the recall data base every morning. Some habits are hard to break, even in retirement.

Nikola Homepage (nikolamotor.com) (https://nikolamotor.com/)

David - WI

09-20-2022, 07:50 AM

XstreamVking

09-20-2022, 08:47 AM

I got a good laugh this morning seeing Brandon sitting in a corvette while praising ev’s They are ceasing production of the C-8s in their infinite wisdom btw all because of this golf cart technology they have cued up to replace it.

Chaz

09-20-2022, 08:57 AM

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

Once again the village idiot .. says nothing and posts a link to a video .. not the video itself with title and content .. :rolleyes:

But does let us know how he became so stupid + hateful ... poor fukker's been lyin to himself for so long, that he began to actually believe it .. now it's too late, TDS has rotted his brain ..

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

So an 8 year old burns to death .. and "jon boat" says it's political. No you idiot, someone's child died. jon Scum boat is your new "official handle" !!!

Scumboat, they have sold Pinto's, Vega's, Hyundi's, Kia's and many more in my lifetime. That doesn't mean I ever spent a nickel on any of them.

They can offer as many $hizbox golf carts as they want. The difference today is that the guy who can't ride a bicycle, climb a staircase without falling down (up) three times, shake hands with a ghost (more than once) can't put two sentences together without notes to read. Actually reads the instructions part of the notes .. is not very convincing when he kills fossil fuel decades before electrical transportation is put in place.

The worst governor in the country follows like a puppy, says that gasoline cars will be mandatorily shut down in favor of electric cars .. at the exact time that the energy secretary says .. don't charge your EV's .. because the system can't handle the load.
Pure woke-tardness .. at it's finest. Well, more like at it's worst. :rolleyes:

You might be a sheeple that belongs there. You can't even speak of your water conditions .. be honest, you have no water ... live like street scum if you want , just don't think for a minute, that the United States want's any part of it ... :thumbsup:

You must have enjoyed wearing two masks while commie-tard Newscum ate at a laundromat (no wonder your so phukked up , you people can't tell the diff between a place to get your cloths washed and a place to eat) with fellow maskless tards.
Rules for ye .. not for he .. is not a constitutional republic .. it's more like N. korea and Communist china .. :eek: No thanks .. :nonod: :nonod: :nonod:

https://consumerwatchdog.org/sites/default/files/SLIDER-French-Laundry_0.jpg

pcrussell50

09-20-2022, 12:02 PM

.

the electric planes are coming ..

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/air-canada-buy-30-electric-planes-heart-aerospace-2022-09-15/

510227

Sigh... This is a big thread, so can't fault you for missing things and reposting click bait articles that have already been posted... BUT... No mate, they're not coming.

And here's why:

Damn. I hate to be such a Debbie downer here, but these kinds of sensationalist clickbait stories are borderline cruel to people holding out hope for a different future.

Air Canada gave only $5M dollars for this. To them, that’s cheaper feel-good money than if you or I bought Girl Scout cookies to help the local troupe or pack. That plane… If it is ever built and sold, will be at least four times that, just for one of them.

The manufacturer, Heart Aircraft hasn't even built a full sized cardboard model much less a prototype with battery and engines, much less taxi-tested one, which has to happen before “first flight in 2024” as the article claims. If they go from nothing, to even a first empty test flight of a prototype in a year and a half, it will have been the greatest achievement in the history of aviation. Not. Going. To. Happen. At least not anywhere near the time scale they are publishing for investors. Oh and hybrid propulsion of paying passengers is ten years away at least, from the FAA buying off on it's reliability. The FAA takes engine reliability VERY seriously, and especially new designs that have never been certified before.

===

If you are interested in electric airliners, the leading candidate by years is the Alice, by Eviation. A 9 passenger commuter. In 2019, they “sold” 75 of them to Cape Air, to run richies on the short hops to Martha’s Vineyard, Cape Cod, Nantucket etc... At least they’ve actually built a non-flying prototype with running engines, which is where we are now. It was supposed to be in service by 2022. It has not flown yet. Not even a prototype on a single hop with just a test pilot. They have had setbacks. In 2020 the only one they had, burned to the ground in … you guessed it… a battery fire. After that, they were supposed to get one off the ground with only a test pilot on board “in summer 2022”. Nothing yet. Eviation's press release from yesterday says they are going to begin "high speed taxi testing" soon. That is a very big deal and is the last phase before an actual flight. It can take a while though because at high speeds on the ground, aerodynamics begin to be a factor and they will have a lot of data to crunch through before they can let it leave the ground with the required degree of confidence. It will be years if ever, before the FAA clears them to carry passengers for money. And they are years ahead of everyone else, even though they have yet to even test fly one. Still, looking at their numbers, their plan could actually work, as long as they keep their flights under about 200 miles. But the cost, waste, and inefficiency ... Three times the power and weight to do the same work ... ouch!

A little more: Cape Air is currently flying nine passengers at a time in piston twin airplanes with 300hp per side. The battery plane will also carry 9 passengers but (if it ever comes to reality AND meets FAA certification), it requires 850hp per each of it's two engines to carry 9 passengers because of the weight of it’s battery.

And more still: In order to carry passengers for money, there are certain range and endurance requirements. Every time you take off, you have to be able to fly to your destination, then fly to your bad weather alternate, and then for 45 more minutes just in case, all without landing to refuel. With a 1200lb Tesla battery, you get about 5 minutes at 1700hp before you hit zero, no reserve. Of course once airborne you could probably throttle back to half that. It doesn’t use a Tesla battery, I just threw that in for reference. It’s battery weighs 8300lbs. About 30% more than the entire FULLY LOADED weight of the planes they fly now, and again that’s just for the battery alone. All told, it will weigh two and a half times as much to carry the same 9 passengers, as the piston Cessna 402's they use now.

===

Bottom line: These sensationalist click-bait articles come up all the time. None has ever matured. And probably won’t for a very long time. I’ve been watching it for years. If you are truly interested, let's mark today’s date and we can revisit when we can actually buy a ticket on a Heart ES-19 like the one in the link. I'd even tip my hat to see a youtube clip of a prototype actually getting airborne with a live human test pilot. At that point, they'd still be years away from carrying paying passengers, but at least having one built, and capable of getting off the ground at all would be quite an achievement.

The article says Air Canada gave $5M. That’s probably about what they spend on wear and tear for brakes in a week of flying. That $5M is throwaway marketing hype for pennies on the dollar when people read those headlines ... And actually believe them. In marketing, believing is way more important than producing.

-Peter

I should add that even Eviation, who is YEARS ahead of everyone else, and still has not flown an empty prototype or even conducted high speed taxi tests, whose business model is for ten minute flights between the mainland and Martha's Vineyard could actually work, is a slimy bunch of liars. On their promo video, they talk about San Francisco to Los Angeles, or even London, without every claiming they could do either (because it is physically impossible). But that they say it at all is deceptive and misleading, and cruel if they suck in investors who believe it's possible.

-Peter

John S

09-20-2022, 12:35 PM

Battery tech. It's getting better by the day...

https://insideevs.com/news/611040/nissan-exec-ev-battery-longevity-exceeding-expectations/

John S

09-20-2022, 12:39 PM

Are you Ok John ? From sunny land lol

Doing well, better than ever actually. Just hit my fitness goal for the year, weather just turned perfect to get back on the motorcycle and MTB. Don't know how life could be better. I really do applaud your attempt to at least be cordial up here. Save the nastiness for the polititards in their "special section;)". You wanna talk wind turbines???
https://www.fastcompany.com/90768024/this-floating-wind-farm-features-126-small-turbines-spinning-on-a-grid

Shaun K

09-20-2022, 01:46 PM

Doing well, better than ever actually. Just hit my fitness goal for the year, weather just turned perfect to get back on the motorcycle and MTB. Don't know how life could be better. I really do applaud your attempt to at least be cordial up here. Save the nastiness for the polititards in their "special section;)". You wanna talk wind turbines???
https://www.fastcompany.com/90768024/this-floating-wind-farm-features-126-small-turbines-spinning-on-a-grid

Yea sure let's talk wind turbines John, that 1000ft monstrosity w 126 small turbines you linked me to equals the output 5 full size turbines. Thats all. Did you read the link you posted? Did you know it takes the output of 600 full size turbines running full time to replace a one coal powerplant? Did you know that wind turbines only run at 35-40% capacity and are not a source of reliable constant power? That award winning design would be in pieces at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico in the first tropical storm, forget a hurricane. Nobody was nasty to you John S, my question was very valid, and you didn't even try to answer it. How is California's grid going to support EV's and this new electric infrastructure you keep blathering about? How. As it stands now like 30-40% of California's energy is coming from other states. And California green bureaucrats are going after the last remaining nuclear plants? The whole thing is fkn laughable. Gavin Newsome is fkn idiot who couldn't change a fkn tire on his own car if his life depended on it. These are the people making your power decisions. Good luck !

pcrussell50

09-20-2022, 02:35 PM

Yea sure let's talk wind turbines John, that 1000ft monstrosity w 126 small turbines you linked me to equals the output 5 full size turbines. Thats all. Did you read the link you posted? Did you know it takes the output of 600 full size turbines running full time to replace a one coal powerplant? Did you know that wind turbines only run at 35-40% capacity and are not a source of reliable constant power?

That is huge. The problem with part-time/unreliable energy sources is that you still need to keep all your full-time/reliable energy sources ... Or do without in times of need. CA seems to have chosen the latter. When need arises, we here in CA are called upon to do without.

But there's also the waste problem from used turbine blades (and solar panels). The blades wear out, (quickly) and then what do you do with them? Burning them or grinding glass fibers into dust is an environmental catastrophe. Burying them, they last for 10,000 years, like plastic. Shipping them off to countries with slave labor so they can burn them or grind them up and who cares if poor people halfway around the world are dying when you're living the life in SoCal, right? Seems like burying them or shipping them to China is what is happening for the most part in this country. Except not in the rich areas like coastal SoCal. They get shipped to other people's back yards for burial. At least some of the poor communities in other states where they bury CA's used blades are getting paid for it, so there is that. The same thing happens with solar panels only worse, because they have toxic materials that can leach into ground water, so burying them is risky and has to be done with great care and expense. CA will make it nearly impossible to bury old solar panels because of this... So used solar panels from CA, as with used wind turbine blades, will likely be shipped to other people's back yards in other states.

https://www.mswmanagement.com/home/article/21274515/what-to-do-with-old-solar-panels

https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2020/02/05/wind-turbine-blades-cant-be-recycled-so-theyre-piling-up-in-landfills/

-Peter

XstreamVking

09-21-2022, 10:45 AM

The truth is hard to take for the greenies. I guess it will take total meltdown of society to convince them. Elon Musk himself has said that is where we are headed at this point. I think he would know the facts and understand better than just about anyone. Like it or not the tech is not now or maybe ever going to replace our current system. Nice to see posts where irrefutable proof is laid out plainly and to the point. No emotion or politics just facts!

Chaz

09-21-2022, 03:30 PM

Yea sure let's talk wind turbines John, that 1000ft monstrosity w 126 small turbines you linked me to equals the output 5 full size turbines. Thats all. Did you read the link you posted? Did you know it takes the output of 600 full size turbines running full time to replace a one coal powerplant? Did you know that wind turbines only run at 35-40% capacity and are not a source of reliable constant power? That award winning design would be in pieces at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico in the first tropical storm, forget a hurricane.

No sir, he didn't know that. I didn't either, but then I don't tout them as the second coming .. If anything, I like what POTUS Trump says at his rally's .. no honey, you can't watch TV .. the wind isn't blowing ... :D

Nobody was nasty to you John S,

Well, I'll raise my hand. I was, and will be .. as long as the left wing idiots continue to lie about climate change .. global warming, whatever they are calling it this week.
They continue the false narrative and then some even start feeling guilty about their gender and the color of their skin .. Sorry, I ain't havin it. :thumbsup:

my question was very valid, and you didn't even try to answer it. How is California's grid going to support EV's and this new electric infrastructure you keep blathering about? How. As it stands now like 30-40% of California's energy is coming from other states. And California green bureaucrats are going after the last remaining nuclear plants? The whole thing is fkn laughable. Gavin Newsome is fkn idiot who couldn't change a fkn tire on his own car if his life depended on it. These are the people making your power decisions. Good luck !

No, he can't and won't even try to answer any direct questions. Just do like CRUD , and go off in a different tangent. WE STILL KNOW THEY ARE AFRAID TO TELL THE TRUTH . Can't run, no matter how many 10,000 word essays they cut and paste .. :p

Imported water, imported electricity and imported food .. the only thing they seem to have an abundance of is garbage filled streets, ever spreading homeless ghettoes and the idiots who put them in that position .. trying to tell the rest of us how to live .. :nonod: I'll pass :smiletest:

Should we be good stewards of the planet .. ? absolutely. Keep your car, truck or boat in good running order. Pick up your own garbage, yo mama don't need to follow you around. Use the recycle bins the county gives you. Turn your used oil in .. or use it to lube your machinery, saw blades and cutters. For my yankee brothers, save it up to heat your garage in the winter months. I kind of thought most people were raised that way, but it seems that the ones who cry the loudest .. are the worst offenders. :rolleyes:

pcrussell50

09-21-2022, 05:51 PM

America must not have gotten the memo. In the last three years, I have built three buildings, all with underground EV parking/ charging. Increased fire protection in that area. See how the process works, mate? Problem... Engineering....

Yes, I know exactly how it works. Do you?

See:
So you built three new buildings built to a spec in advance of a problem you knew was coming. Yet you seem to deny it as areal issue. What do you do with the million other perfectly good underground garages that were built before the dangers of spontaneous lithium fires had become a serious threat? Tear them down? No, mate. What you do is whatever you can do. And that is buy your building insurance and abide by the conditions written in your policy. If that means no underground parking for BEVs? Guess what? You can still do it. Just don’t expect your claim to be honored if you lose your building. Or get sued because someone was hurt or killed. Shoot mate, As someone in the building trades, you should be very well versed on the concept. Certainly more than I am. Yet even I understand at least the basics of liability.

And OHBTW … you and I are mountain bikers right? Over on the MTBR forums, they are already talking about e-bike shops that won’t work on bikes they don’t sell and have factory trained techs to repair. Why? Liability. They don’t want to be responsible out of pocket for fires or electrocutions.

Yes, I know engineering. My degree is in mechanical engineering. I’m also pretty strong in math and physics. If I hadn’t become a pilot, I was headed to grad school for math. That’s all this evaluation and analysis of energy storage and BS testing of fanciful claims boils down to. Math and a little physics. Stuff we can all do ourselves with a little guidance and interest. Don’t know where you are in SoCal but I went to SDSU. I still own a home up in Carlsbad, even though I don’t live in it right now.

-Peter

CUDA

09-21-2022, 07:10 PM

Want cheap EV's

here they come

CHINA

<section class="post-headline-wrapper default-headline" style="box-sizing: border-box; flex: 0 0 100%; max-width: 100%; padding-left: 15px; padding-right: 15px; position: relative; width: 1260px;">I tried out a luxury autonomous car considered the Chinese rival to Tesla — it was like driving an airplane

</section><section class="byline-wrapper col-12" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; padding-left: 15px; padding-right: 15px; position: relative; width: 1260px; flex: 0 0 100%; max-width: 100%; align-items: center; flex-wrap: nowrap; justify-content: space-between; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 8px;"><section class="share-wrapper share-wrapper-top" data-share-top="" aria-label="Share This Post" data-e2e-name="share-wrapper-top" data-track-page-area="Post Top" data-component-type="share-buttons" data-location="top" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; align-items: flex-start; height: 50px; justify-content: flex-end; margin: auto 0px; width: 300px; position: relative;">https://i.insider.com/615b26d3542a580019a8a5d9?width=700</section></section><section id="l-content" class=" is-right-rail with-rail-video-ad" data-track-page-area="Post" data-post-content="" style="box-sizing: border-box; flex: 0 0 75%; margin-bottom: 30px; position: relative; width: 876px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; border-bottom: none; margin-left: 15px; margin-right: 54px; max-width: 876px !important;"><section class="row" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap; margin-left: -15px; margin-right: -15px;"><article style="box-sizing: border-box;"><figure class="figure image-figure-image " data-type="img" data-e2e-name="image-figure-image" data-media-container="image" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; width: 876px;"><figcaption class="image-caption headline-bold" data-e2e-name="image-caption" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; font-family: LabGrotesque, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: 900; line-height: 17.5px; margin-right: 6px;">Nio may be "China's answer to Tesla" due to its innovative strength. </figcaption>NOK</figure><section class="post-content typography " data-track-content="" data-post-type="post" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); font-size: 1.25rem; line-height: 1.65; margin-top: 36px; width: 640px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; font-family: TiemposTextWeb, Georgia, Times, serif;"><section data-offer-key="auto-renew-29" data-component-type="inline-offer" data-place-after-element-selector=".post-content .content-lock-content p" class="inline-offer auto-renew-29" style="box-sizing: border-box;"></section>

The Nio ET7 is being billed as the Chinese Tesla.
The design is a joint effort from centers in Munich and Shanghai.
It features an impressive interior and is ready for autonomous driving.

<section class="sub-header-container" style="box-sizing: border-box;"></section><section class="inline-newsletter-content" style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 0px 95px;">Sign up for our newsletter to receive our top stories based on your reading preferences — delivered daily to your inbox.

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</form></section>Often, Chinese car manufacturers don't have the same reputation as those in Western countries.
Historically, this has been down to poor production quality and the tendency of some manufacturers to copy European designs.
Despite this, China has risen to quickly become one of the leading (https://www.statista.com/statistics/232958/revenue-of-the-leading-car-manufacturers-worldwide/) "car nations" — electric cars have been subsidized by the state in China for years. Electric cars account for a large share of new registrations each year.
One manufacturer, Nio — which specializes in autonomous cars — was founded in Shanghai in 2014.

The startup is considered "China's answer to Tesla" due to its innovative strength, and it's already produced over 100,000 cars there. Even Tesla CEO Elon Musk commended the manufacturer on Twitter (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1380599983481577472?lang=en) for reaching this milestone.
<figure class="figure image-figure-image " data-type="img" data-e2e-name="image-figure-image" data-media-container="image" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; width: 640px;">https://i.insider.com/615b26e2542a580019a8a5e1?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp
<figcaption class="image-caption headline-bold" data-e2e-name="image-caption" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; font-family: LabGrotesque, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: 900; line-height: 17.5px; margin-right: 6px;">"Karuun" is a renewable material made mostly out of rattan that should theoretically be as resistant as plastic. </figcaption>NOK</figure>I was given the opportunity to take a ride in Nio's new luxury model and to talk to its design chief Kris Tomasson.
Tomasson has previously worked at BMW and has also designed private jets, which is clear when you take a moment to appreciate the clean, no-frills finish of the ET7.
The hatchback has a cW value of 0.23, but in terms of aerodynamics, it's outperformed by the world champion Mercedes EQS (0.20) and the Tesla Model S (0.208).
<section class="ntv-mw post-content-more ntv1159453-515114-10652 ntvClickOut noskim" style="box-sizing: border-box; width: 640px; margin: 40px auto;"><section class="content-recommendations-component inline" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 50px 0px;">https://ntvcld-a.akamaihd.net/image/upload/w_400,h_300,c_fill,g_auto:text,f_auto/assets/DA83D22E1EE44ED28FDF3E8D9B169DF6.jpg

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</section></section>According to Nio, the exterior design of the approximately 5.10-meter-long sedan was inspired by the distinctive silhouettes of the seventies.
The roofline and C-pillar in particular are reminiscent of the Citroën CX or the Rover SD1.
<figure class="figure image-figure-image " data-type="img" data-e2e-name="image-figure-image" data-media-container="image" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; width: 640px;">https://i.insider.com/615b27abb414c10018639c68?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp
<figcaption class="image-caption headline-bold" data-e2e-name="image-caption" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; font-family: LabGrotesque, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: 900; line-height: 17.5px; margin-right: 6px;">Behind the wheel, I felt like I was in an airplane cockpit. </figcaption>NOK</figure>Although the ET7 is a hatchback, the designers gave it a classic trunk lid.
"We did without a large tailgate because we wanted to optimize the space available in the interior. At the same time, we didn't want to design a conventional three-box sedan, as that wouldn't have fit the ET7's novel character," Tomasson explained this decision when asked by Business Insider. The model also has to do without a frunk (front luggage compartment). The rear luggage compartment, however, appears quite large at first glance.

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Record-breaking rear legroom

According to project manager Tomasson, the in-house Eve study from 2017 served as the starting point for the design process. At first glance, there may be few visual parallels to the extremely futuristic-looking and fully autonomous concept car.
<figure class="figure image-figure-image " data-type="img" data-e2e-name="image-figure-image" data-media-container="image" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; width: 640px;">https://i.insider.com/615b2806b414c10018639ced?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp
<figcaption class="image-caption headline-bold" data-e2e-name="image-caption" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline; font-family: LabGrotesque, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: 900; line-height: 17.5px; margin-right: 6px;">The exterior design of the approximately 5.10-meter-long sedan was inspired by the distinctive silhouettes of the seventies. </figcaption>NOK</figure>According to the designer in charge, however, the proportions have been taken from the production model. With its 3.07-meter wheelbase, the ET7 has a similarly elongated appearance to the study. Together with the short overhangs, it should provide plenty of space in the interior.
During my first seat test, I found that Nio wasn't exaggerating when it boasted about leg space — there was considerable room for my legs to the point where I could almost fully stretch them out.
According to the manufacturer, the ET7 is even supposed to be the best in this category.

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</section></article></section></section>

Instigator

09-21-2022, 08:32 PM

Rut roh!

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pg-e-says-tesla-battery-212521772.html

David - WI

09-21-2022, 08:41 PM

I would love to see the environmental impact study on that project... "Everything will be fine (as long as it doesn't catch on F****** FIRE) we hope.“

Shaun K

09-21-2022, 08:56 PM

Want cheap EV's

here they come

CHINA

<section class="post-headline-wrapper default-headline" style="box-sizing: border-box; flex: 0 0 100%; max-width: 100%; padding-left: 15px; padding-right: 15px; position: relative; width: 1260px;">

You have find China's aspirations of being the #1 worldwide EV maker, (and all EV batteries, solar, wind turbine etc) wanting US and European market share kind of amusing at this point. To help the West "Go Green" and save earth as they reject adhering to the Paris accords by adding coal power plants daily. They say they might comply by 2030 when the US/EU is an economic wasteland. Go Brandon</section>

CUDA

09-21-2022, 10:15 PM

I'm afraid you will see China flood the low end EV market, $20,000 EV's

Just like E-bikes are every where now China will control the low end market

All the German EV's will gain strength and lead the high end

You see Ford is stuck with dealer obligations can't direct sell, but making EV sales exclusive dealership is interesting move.

noli

09-22-2022, 08:40 PM

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKXCgx1y6J8

.

pcrussell50

09-23-2022, 10:23 AM

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKXCgx1y6J8

.

100kw is about 134hp. So that claim is 134hp out of about one square yard of solar panel. You can file that one with the 100mpg carburetor and the perpetual motion machines that the oil companies are keeping from us.

Those youtube clickbaits are even more common and just as impossible as lithium jet travel.

-Peter

CUDA

09-23-2022, 10:53 AM

Florida Power is going solar quick,

https://www.fpl.com/energy-my-way/battery-storage.html

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/going-solar-with-florida-power-and-light

David - WI

09-23-2022, 11:24 AM

I see Ford offers an electric ‘crate motor‘ if anybody wants to try their hand at an electric jetboat or v-drive. :cheers:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-f-100-eluminator-diy-electric-pickup

wettek

09-23-2022, 06:35 PM

I see Ford offers an electric ‘crate motor‘ if anybody wants to try their hand at an electric jetboat or v-drive. :cheers:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-f-100-eluminator-diy-electric-pickup

It's just all the crates of batteries that are the show stoppers. The motors themselves are fantastic.
Once we get the mythical unobtainium batteries with the rarium cells that are always "just around the corner" and "being developed" everything will be rainbows and lollipops.

No offence intended to you David

powerabout

09-23-2022, 11:18 PM

lets wait till the EU forces goods to carry their carbon footprint so consumers can decide.

PanRonnie

09-24-2022, 12:43 AM

lets wait till the EU forces goods to carry their carbon footprint so consumers can decide.

Yep that is going to be fun when we tax solar panels made with coal power!
Xi is going to go ballestic
But you cannot take a EU parlement seriously that subsedises burning trees or still cannot decide where they will hold their meetings Brussel or Strassburg :leaving:

powerabout

09-24-2022, 02:42 AM

Yep that is going to be fun when we tax solar panels made with coal power!
Xi is going to go ballestic
But you cannot take a EU parlement seriously that subsedises burning trees or still cannot decide where they will hold their meetings Brussel or Strassburg :leaving:
yep a failed socialist experiment, wreacked havoc with untold sufferig to countries like Greece. Trashed Italy, they have stood still since the silly monetary mistake.

It was created to either:
a) loan money to everyone so they can buy a Mercedes
b) prevent the first country from declaring bankruptcy, France.

Shaun K

09-24-2022, 08:07 AM

Florida Power is going solar quick,

https://www.fpl.com/energy-my-way/battery-storage.html

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/going-solar-with-florida-power-and-light

Thats complete propaganda paid for by FLP, no Florida utility has fought so hard and spent so much in lobbying to kneecap residential solar & net metering than FPL. The Governor you probably hate just came to the rescue

https://prosolarflorida.com/governor-desantis-vetoes-hb-741/#:~:text=HB%20741%2C%20dubbed%20the%20%E2%80%9Canti-rooftop%20bill%E2%80%9D%20has%20received,energy%20that%20works%20for%20them%20and%20their%20families .%E2%80%9D

PanRonnie

09-24-2022, 01:42 PM

Here is a fun video to watch

https://youtu.be/UA-jOLF2T4c

pcrussell50

09-25-2022, 12:06 AM

Florida Power is going solar quick,

https://www.fpl.com/energy-my-way/battery-storage.html

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/going-solar-with-florida-power-and-light

If they are using lithium ion storage batteries, which a lot of places do, there WILL be fires. Period.

…lithium batteries at storage sites in Moss Landing have repeatedly caught fire (https://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/even-after-two-shutdowns-vistra-s-moss-landing-battery-plant-expects-to-nearly-double/article_4fb66e0c-9a5b-11ec-a940-97fe3a9f84cb.html) in recent years. And last year, a Tesla Megapack caught fire in Geelong, Australia, (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/tesla-megapack-caught-fire-at-victorian-big-battery-site-in-australia.html) during initial tests at the Victorian Big Battery (https://victorianbigbattery.com.au/)storage site.

There are always fires when you use lithium ion storage batteries. Lithium fires are white-hot … and toxic. As per this lithium fire still burning in CA a few days ago:

At the time this story was published, the facility was disconnected from the grid as firefighters worked to "stop the spread of the fire and provide a safe area for emergency response personnel." The fire shut down a section of Highway 1 (https://twitter.com/CHPscrz/status/1572232084059717634) and sparked a shelter-in-place advisory (https://www.co.monterey.ca.us/government/departments-a-h/administrative-office/office-of-emergency-services/incidents/power-storage-facility-incident#!/) from the county's sheriff’s office. The office warned nearby residents of an "ongoing hazardous materials incident" at around 9:00 a.m., stating: "Please shut your windows and turn off your ventilation systems."

Lithium fires are very hard to put out. If I was a power provider with a burning lithium fire, I might be very careful painting a rosy picture, no matter how badly I wanted to:

When asked about the scale of the fire, a spokesperson for the utility declined to share additional information.

That means it’s bad, and either still burning, or at risk of re igniting as they often do. Shocker, I know (pun intended ;) )

===

The elephant in the room… While even lithium ion storage is too heavy for boats and airplanes, and is kinda sorta ok for cars as long as you are ok with either immense weight or short range, why do you need it for grid energy storage? Lead acid would be worlds cheaper and safer, although it would require more space. Despite my being a know it all about analyzing numbers, I honestly don’t know the answer here. Though I suspect it lies somewhere in the convoluted politics of the massive subsidies given to solar and wind providers.

-Peter

CUDA

09-27-2022, 11:21 AM

Please don't lose any sleep...

https://geelongindy.com.au/news/28-09-2021/battery-fire-cause-revealed/

John S

09-27-2022, 02:03 PM

Looks like the horse is pulling that cart now, eh?:D

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-charging-stations-on-highways-dot-approves-50-states-plans.html

pcrussell50

09-27-2022, 02:42 PM

Looks like the horse is pulling that cart now, eh?:D

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-charging-stations-on-highways-dot-approves-50-states-plans.html

Your article:

Earlier this year, the Biden administration allocated $5 billion to states to fund EV chargers over five years along interstate highways as part of the bipartisan infrastructure package.

Shame we have to squander taxpayer money for this. Seems to me like taxpayer money could be better spent than on subsidizing rich man's toys.

-Peter

John S

09-27-2022, 03:01 PM

pcrussell50

09-27-2022, 05:14 PM

@pcrussel50- Being from the industry you're in, I got a good chuckle outta that comment. I'm old enough to remember Northwest airlines. Your industry has your hats in your hands enough times, I need to have my flip flops on to count. And automobiles started out as rich man's toys. See how that worked out? Do the math.:D

You speak in riddles. Hard to do math with that.

But here's some straight talk math for you: Tesla (rich man's toy) sells more cars in a year than Nissan has sold Leafs (economy BEV) in 12 years.

-Peter

Brad Zastrow

09-27-2022, 10:01 PM

David - WI

09-27-2022, 10:59 PM

Short term gain... eventually she will have to pay her share for road maintenance (that comes from gas taxes now) and $60 electric will be $300 if Europe is any indication.

pcrussell50

09-28-2022, 01:06 AM

Here is some interesting math for you. My wife drives a Tesla model S that cost $60 month in electricity. An equivalent large luxury sedan would cost about $400 a month in gas to drive the same distance. That helps justify driving a "rich man's toy" as you call it. If you finance a car, $340 month in fuel savings go a long way in buying a nice car. Not to mention the low maintenance costs of owning an EV.

Oh mate, it's not how I call it. It's what it is. We were talking about putting taxpayers on the hook to pay for charging infrastructure for rich man's toys. Tesla sells TWICE as many cars in just one year as Nissan has sold Leafs in 12 years. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about who is buying BEVs and who isn't, I don't know how to put it to you any other way. For another data point, the median price of a Model S is $120,500 and the median price of a Leaf is $33,000.

BTW, cocktail napkin math: $400/month for gasoline* at $4/gal is 100 gallons a month of gasoline. If you get 20mpg (our BMW ///M5 gets more than that on the freeway, less in the city), you're talking about 2000 miles a month/24,000 miles a year. (Gulp!) We try to keep our ///M5 under 4k miles/year and do the rest of our driving in something more boring and economical. Either way, I'd never buy a Model S to be a 24,000 mile a year daily driven dog. I would consider it far too nice for that and I'm not even shopping for one.

Curious ... How many miles do you plan to put on your Model S before you trade it in for a new one?

*I also worked your claimed numbers for what you pay for charging your Model S, based on 20kW average consumption and the average cost per kWh in Chicago (which is actually right about the national average, this surprised me), and it's a good match for your claims.

===

BTW, Apologies if your phone aurally notifies you of S&F posts. I'm flying the islands this month and it's only 8pm here in my hotel room in Honolulu. I realize it's 0100 in the midwest. Because of this, Edmunds has defaulted me to Hawaii, where gas is over $5/gal and come up with this:
Edmunds Cost to Drive & Tested Range

Cost to DriveCost to drive estimates for the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) and comparison vehicles are based on 15,000 miles per year (with a mix of 55% city and 45% highway driving) and energy estimates of $0.45 per kWh for electricity and $5.67 per gallon average in Hawaii.

Monthly estimates based on costs in Hawaii

$163/mo
Model S Plaid
<select data-tracking-id="style_select" data-no-refresh="false" id="sel-4474230332058761" name="cost-trim-select" aria-label="Select style" class="cost-select border-0 rounded h-100 w-100 pos-a left-0 top-0 text-left" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; touch-action: manipulation; border-top-left-radius: 0.25rem; border-top-right-radius: 0.25rem; border-bottom-right-radius: 0.25rem; border-bottom-left-radius: 0.25rem; width: 141.5px; height: 16px; -webkit-appearance: none; cursor: pointer; z-index: 0; border-width: 0px !important; position: absolute !important; top: 0px !important; left: 0px !important;"><option class="" value="4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD)" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) (Most Popular) - $104,990 MSRP</option><option selected="" class="" value="Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD)" style="box-sizing: inherit; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">Plaid 4dr Sedan AWD (electric DD) - $135,990 MSRP</option></select>

vs

$312/mo
Avg. Large Car

Your electricity rates and gas prices will be different in the midwest, but the comparison is valid... Surprisingly, the BEV is more than half the monthly operating cost of the average "large car". I would have thought the BEV saving was greater than that.

-Peter

PanRonnie

09-28-2022, 03:29 AM

this is kind of a bummer! :confused:

https://youtu.be/3nS0Fdayj8Y

Brad Zastrow

09-28-2022, 08:00 AM

First of all, premium gas is about $5 gal in Illinois. Second, our electric rates are much less than Hawaii. We have these really cool nuclear plants here. I would assume Hawaii is much higher than any other state. Why have a nice car you do not drive for fear of putting miles on it? As for putting taxpayers on the hook for infrastructure how about roads and bridges? How about the taxpayer that does not have a car? Look the future is in electric cars for most people. To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. The fires out west, the high heat and the insane hurricanes are proof. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now. I agree towing with an EV truck is not in the cards yet. Not yet but, technology will fix that. The Automakers are going full throttle on EV's.

Shaun K

09-28-2022, 08:49 AM

To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now. .

Florida never had a hurricane before "climate change" though, right? This is the 1st and probably last of season btw. Sorry I don't believe in the carbon thing either or your "smart" government. Especially your state Brad. This place is full of scientist . Regards

bouyhead

09-28-2022, 12:27 PM

If anyone thinks the weather will be less severe if we get more EV's on the road give me a shout, I've got a bridge for sale.
510480

pcrussell50

09-28-2022, 02:02 PM

First of all, premium gas is about $5 gal in Illinois. Second, our electric rates are much less than Hawaii. We have these really cool nuclear plants here. I would assume Hawaii is much higher than any other state.

Oh, man. I was hoping you would get it. Let me help. It's not what it costs, it's the ratio of the cost of BEV to "other larger car". Both costs will be higher in places where gas and electricity are high, and lower in places where gas and electricity are lower. But the ratio will remain about the same. Based on Edmunds, the cost of driving a Model S is about 2/3 the cost of driving "other large car".

Why have a nice car you do not drive for fear of putting miles on it?

Nothing wrong with having a rich man's toy. Nothing at all. And putting a lot of miles on it just makes it even more of a rich man's toy by way of reducing it's residual value faster. Still nothing at all wrong with that... Unless you start trying to convince yourself that it's not a rich man's toy. Or worse, try to tell others that it's not. I 100% support rich men buying their toys and enjoying them as they wish. I would even go to war to protect that right, I support it so much.

As for putting taxpayers on the hook for infrastructure how about roads and bridges? How about the taxpayer that does not have a car?

There are already more cars registered and on the road in the USA than there are people old enough to drive them. And that's not even including people who are too old and don't drive any more. The problem is BEVs. There are hardly any of them, and the ones there are, by a very very very large margin, are rich man's toys.

Look the future is in electric cars for most people.

"Most people" aren't buying them despite the fact they've been around for a long time. Tesla sells TWICE as many battery cars in a SINGLE YEAR as Nissan has in 12 years. The ordinary bloke who wants a Tesla but can't afford it, clearly isn't buying a Leaf or a Bolt. If he can't afford his rich man's toy Tesla, he is buying a gas car, as shown very clearly in the numbers. At this point, since more affordable BEVs have been around a while and nobody is taking, it's probably going to take some more government force to get ordinary people into ordinary (non-Tesla, non-Porsche/Audi/Jag) BEV's. CA is doing it by force. The eight other states that use CA's CARB rules probably will too. Continued punitive regulatory policies against fuels will help, too. With enough government force, people will eventually comply, and you will have your future where electric cars are for most people.

To help climate change we need to get to much lower emissions. The government is smart and pushing that along. The fires out west, the high heat and the insane hurricanes are proof. A category 4 is bearing on Florida right now.

LOL. Are you someone who blindly believes what you read? Or do you apply BS tests to what you read? For example, when you made your claims about how much cheaper you Model S was to operate than "other large luxury sedan", I immediately began running numbers (BS testing), matching your claimed costs to known metrics, because that's what I do. (They were a pretty good match too, so I believe you). There is a lot of BS testing that the ordinary person can do over global warming claims. Sadly, most people don't. And that goes for both believers and doubters. I have found most ordinary people on both sides to be astonishingly ignorant on the subject. Each side believing the shamans professing what he wants to believe. BUT... it doesn't have to be that way. There is much the ordinary person can do so as not to rely on faith. Be honest now, without googling, can you describe the greenhouse effect? Without googling, do you know how much of the atmosphere is CO2? You don't have to answer here. Just ask yourself quietly. Then (if you don't already know), google the answers for yourself. And then think about it. You can also BS test fire frequency and acreage burned, and frequency of named storms. You don't have to rely on what you are told. Especially named storms. They are right there on wikipedia among other sources. Then make your own conclusions. The most severe Atlantic hurricane (both size and intensity) to make landfall was Carla, 61 years ago. There are only three of the top ten most severe hurricanes that were even in the 2000's and the latest is 2008. The top three most severe were in the 1960's. The top four most intense (intense can be small, but with strong winds) were: in 1980, 1988, 2005, and 1932. There is simply nothing in the data that links storm severity or intensity (there is a difference), to CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, which has been going up steadily.

I agree towing with an EV truck is not in the cards yet. Not yet but, technology will fix that.

This segues into what I was saying about BS testing... Do you just believe this in your heart of hearts? Or do you actually know what technology might come along to "fix" it? Hint, it's not motor technology. It's battery technology. But Lithium ion has been the top dog for thirty years. Any further gains will be small and come at increased fire risk. The towing problem won't be solved without something new. But what will it's replacement be, and when will we see it? And why have we seen nothing better in 30 years despite the finest minds in tech working full time on it? Thirty years is an eternity in tech, and yet... nothing. This is a problem that has proven to be far too big to be just waived off.

-Peter

Brad Zastrow

09-28-2022, 03:55 PM

JPEROG

09-28-2022, 05:16 PM

Bottom line is that we should be concentrating on Electric assist. The performance is incredible the fuel consumption is much less and they don't kill the current grid. Emissions needs to begin with the largest violators and the U.S. is no where near the top of that list. If the rest of the world had emission outputs close to ours it would be a giant step forward. I sincerely hope that we don't see the day where we are like Europe and start killing the value of classic cars and other vintage motorsports but its a "monkey see monkey do" world of bureaucrats that control our path. All I can say is vote accordingly....

FJB

Joe

pcrussell50

09-28-2022, 06:02 PM

You clearly hate change and EV's. OK
The best selling Tesla is a Model 3 starting at $46,990. Another interesting fact. The average price of a new car today is $47,000. It goes to say the Tesla Model 3 is average priced. Hardly a toy or a rich man's car. I am done with this tired conversation.

Oh Brad mate, I never said any such thing about disliking BEVs. Nowhere. I’m just a simple numbers guy. And I love change. Having grown up in the fuel injection era, I’ve had an utter hoot of a good time learning about carburetors and carbureted outboards (thanks to S&F). And now I love them.

Getting back to some numbers… What can we learn from the numbers you posted? A lot and a little. The average price of a new car doesn’t tell us much about what the average person spending on a new car. If one bloke spends $120k on a Tesla Model S, three other people need to spend $23k in order for the average to be your $47k.

However… You should know better about using your Model 3 pricing example. Because you should know that that’s the base price. Nobody buys a stripped down Tesla with a short range battery, single motor, and no options. The average selling price for a 2022 Model 3 from mid-March until a couple of days ago was about $61,500. That’s not far off from the max price of $64k and change. So as with all things BEV … rich man’s toys so far. People don’t want the cheap stuff when it comes to battery cars, so they buy ICE. We both seem to agree that government force will eventually fix that.

Even people buying the Model S don’t seem to have a high take rate on the base model either. I’m assuming you know this since you have one.

===

If you ever wind down enough to where you want to chat civilly about “the towing problem”, or why there aren’t any viable recreational planing hull boats, much less airliners, ping me. We can even do it by PM. Or about how to do your own BS testing of climate claims. You should never have to rely on blind faith.

-Peter

kelvin523

09-28-2022, 07:47 PM

...I am done with this tired conversation.Welcome to the Tiki bar of neutral EQ :)

Instigator

09-28-2022, 07:56 PM

And now California will ban natural gas fueled furnaces.

The have wild fires and don’t know why?

Its global warming!
Not.

Like everything else in that slime pool of a state, they’re too busy preaching to actually study the facts.

Their state shares a lot of similarities w/Florida.
But Fla does controlled burns to reduce/prevent wild fires.

Ca things trees are people, non gender identifying but people just the same…….

Yrs ago they talked about seceding from the union.

Lets send them a suit case!

What a fkg disaster you tree hugging idiots have created and supported while you drink $12 cups of fkg flavored coffee while having your car drive you to work.

Move to Ca and start your own country already!

David - WI

09-28-2022, 08:05 PM

When so many people flee your state (CA) that you lose a congressional seat... you know you're doing more than a few things wrong! :nonod:

powerabout

09-28-2022, 09:05 PM

How are the individual states going to replace the lost fuel taxes?

David - WI

09-28-2022, 09:47 PM

How are the individual states going to replace the lost fuel taxes?

There will have to be some sort of "road tax" in the event that EV's ever become popular, mainstream transportation.

But, as of February EV‘s still accounted for less than 1% of the cars & light trucks on the road in the US... and considering the range/charging issues probably way under 1% of the miles driven.

JPEROG

09-28-2022, 09:48 PM

A new electric tax for everyone of course!!! Follow America down drain or be a plug and vote for policy changes we had under a real leader.

Joe

Chaz

09-28-2022, 11:48 PM

Ya'llz just to rocket surgery an progressive fer a krakka like me. just think I could live in a mid-western state .. thats on the eastern half of the country .. :rolleyes:
Where 30 -40 people get shot every night .. 75 on holliday weekends. Ya'll doin a fine job wiff ya edjumacation :nonod: and crime prevention .. :nonod:
Thems the kind of folks I like to tell .. yes sir, yur turn is 7 miles before ya get to the bridge .. bless their hearts ... :p

https://i.imgur.com/0m7k7hAl.jpg

I liked how one feller said (wiff out copy+paste) how he was gonna leave his place that got hit wiff 140 mph winds this morning, to go up to the St. Johns area to try to take advantage of someone who is seeing 50 mph winds between now and noon tomorrow .. special kind of logic right there ..ta git em to sell fer pennies on the dollar .. ;)

I like how it was mentioned that if the power goes out, they is plenty of gas and generators ta go around .. ya'll gottta give me a minute my eyes is waterin .. and my sides is hurtin .. ya can't make that stuff up ... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

So I had to run to the industrial complex this mornin. They was cars an trucks on US-1 , but I didn't see no cars and especially no electric $hiz-boxes on the back streets where they was some standin water .. Them e-letrik motors .. they like to run submerged do they ... :eek:
How bout them new fangled big azz cell phone batterys .. they run cooler under water ??? Gotta hand it to them smart fellers for savin the planet and poisoning it at the same time .. "super-tards" them fellerz is .. :thumbsup:

I remember campin as a kid. We had to use this stuff called kindling in order to git the fire started. Seems like no matter how long ya held a match to a log, darn thing wouldn't light ... I rekkon them fellers out west and some east of the west never went campin .. :p

I live in a place they call the "Treasure Coast" .. just south of me they call that area the "Gold Coast" . Seems that a bunch of ships were caught in some terrible storms and sunk .. but how could that be .. that was two ta three hunnert years before that industrial revolution come about. You know that one that produces all that food for trees to eat and produce oxygen .. :)

I ain't never been to Hi-Y-ee , but I'll bet the climate was purtty warm when all that molten lave flowed out .. that turned into to rock for folks to build they houses on.. :thumbsup:

I see no one met me at Stuart Beach after my doctor appt. like I asked. I was hope in to see one of you stop the ocean , and make it curl back the other way and roll out to sea ... :nonod:
Dimbiden .. is spendin $830,000,000,000.00 .. all that fool needs to do is go out there right now .. ole Ma Nature can do what she want's .. when she want's ... ain't a phukkin thing that no common horse thief can do about it ... :o

2.5 million people without power right now .. anyone know where I can plug in a POS Tesla for the next three weeks ... Pfffttttttt .... dip-squirts :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_RuverrEZ4

Stoker boy

09-29-2022, 01:29 PM

So I’m guessing even way before man the earth has always had just one consistent climate? LOl.

pcrussell50

09-29-2022, 01:40 PM

If you ever wind down enough to where you want to chat civilly about “the towing problem”, or why there aren’t any viable recreational planing hull boats, much less airliners, ping me. We can even do it by PM. Or about how to do your own BS testing of climate claims. You should never have to rely on blind faith.

-Peter

This offer still stands. Not only to Brad, but to anyone. There is much (most of it, really) in global warming that the ordinary person can look at and decide for himself, without having to rely on faith. I can help you plant your seeds and you can grow them any way you like. It might or might not change your mind, but at least you will have formed your own opinions from a position of being informed instead of from being told.

PM or out in the open. I'm good with either.

-Peter

David - WI

09-29-2022, 01:45 PM

So I’m guessing even way before man the earth has always had just one consistent climate?

I just saw last night on tv... at one point Kansas was 2500‘ underwater and then under 2 miles of ice... but we're in a panic because sea level could possibly rise 10 inches in the next 100 years? :rolleyes:

PanRonnie

09-29-2022, 02:18 PM

If humankind is responsible for abnormal climate change we are royally screwed
Glaciers have been melting since 1900
I saw several in the south of chili ,they put sticks where the glaciers ended during the last century
So imagine 1.6 biljoen People using a candle or kerosine lamp
As opposed to 8 biljoen people using 20 times the amount of energy per person more than a century ago
But yes to reducing dependicy of fossil fuel as we are finding out the hard way in europe
Guess we will have to wait and see what putin blows up next! :(

David - WI

09-29-2022, 04:07 PM

A lot of countries sitting on massive reserves of oil, gas, coal but are refusing to use them. :rolleyes:

Stoker boy

09-29-2022, 06:45 PM

I just saw last night on tv... at one point Kansas was 2500‘ underwater and then under 2 miles of ice... but we're in a panic because sea level could possibly rise 10 inches in the next 100 years? :rolleyes:

It’s just my humble opinion the earth has always gone through cycles before man and it will continue after man. I wasn’t around then so I really don’t know for sure but I suspect.

David - WI

09-29-2022, 07:00 PM

Yes, we know there have been multiple ice ages... and obviously warm periods (like the one we're in) in between... the climate changes constantly and naturally; and there's nothing puny humans can do about it.

Stoker boy

09-29-2022, 07:03 PM

CUDA

09-30-2022, 02:09 PM

Guess many don't get how quickly this has come about with out any major event occuring,
's
Nature is always changing that is true, but very slowly, not 100 year cycles but 1,000's of years cycles

kelvin523

09-30-2022, 06:06 PM

510538

Stoker boy

09-30-2022, 06:48 PM

Guess many don't get how quickly this has come about with out any major event occuring,
's
Nature is always changing that is true, but very slowly, not 100 year cycles but 1,000's of years

cycles

Ocean front houses in Newport Beach CA. built in the 1920s. Sand beach sidewalk and the house still there. I started going there when I was a kid 60 years ago everything still the same.

Instigator

09-30-2022, 07:37 PM

There were less hurricanes in the last 30 yrs than than the 30 yrs before.

And we went through an entire summer with ZERO hurricanes!
Evrn though, as always, the forecast was for more than the yr before!

But, that side hasn’t paid attention to facts yet.

Just listened to a 67-year-old meteorologist in Florida, been a meteorologist his entire life as was his dad.
He’s one, among others that stated the facts above which I have heard before, and laughed while he said them.

These ****ing lunatics don’t care about anything but their agenda.
Why start now?

Cant make this **** up.

Al Gore has room for all of you in his carbon free, 9 bazillion sq ft mansion that you can see from space and John Kerry will give you a ride in his solar powered private jet.

But wait, isn’t he our “climate zar”?

How stupid do you have to be to believe this stupid ****???
Wait, look left and you’ll see the answer.

Shaun K

09-30-2022, 07:55 PM

510538

Hey werent you calling this the low IQ tiki bar the other day ? Nasa.gov ?! lulz holy cow

Instigator

09-30-2022, 08:03 PM

Wow!

So in 52 yrs our temp has gone up 8/10’s of one degree!

Oh my god, we’re all going to die!

Check out the graph too.
1/10’s of a degree so it looks bad.

That side is stating temps from a 100 yrs ago.
What did their digital thermometers, that measured in 1/10’s of degrees look like back then ???

Aint seen one yet.

Again, arguing w/people that don’t consider logic or fact.

Hell, show me the thermometer from ‘1970 tjat showed 1/10’s!

Hey werent you calling this the low IQ tiki bar the other day ? Nasa.gov ?! lulz holy cow

David - WI

09-30-2022, 08:14 PM

Hopefully... 38 days from now the USS United States will start sailing full-speed away from this liberal nonsense.

kelvin523

09-30-2022, 08:20 PM

Hey werent you calling this the low IQ tiki bar the other day ? Nasa.gov ?! lulz holy cow
I guess... if EQ and IQ are the same thing...

Shaun K

09-30-2022, 08:29 PM

I guess... if EQ and IQ are the same thing...

lol whatever Mr France, get ready to eat crickets you smart mofo you

CUDA

09-30-2022, 08:50 PM

Climate change on pace to occur 10 times faster than any change recorded in past 65 million years, Stanford scientists sayNot only is the planet undergoing one of the largest climate changes in the past 65 million years, Stanford climate scientists Noah Diffenbaugh and Chris Field report that it's on pace to occur at a rate 10 times faster than any change in that period. Without intervention, this extreme pace could lead to a 5-6 degree Celsius spike in annual temperatures by the end of the century.

BY BJORN CAREY

Courtesy of Stanford Universityhttps://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/august/images/12919-climatemap_news.jpg (http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/august/images/12919-climatemap_news.jpg)The top map shows global temperatures in the late 21st century, based on current warming trends. The bottom map illustrates the velocity of climate change, or how far species in any given area will need to migrate by the end of the 21st century to experience climate similar to present. (Click image to enlarge)

The planet is undergoing one of the largest changes in climate since the dinosaurs went extinct. But what might be even more troubling for humans, plants and animals is the speed of the change. Stanford climate scientists warn that the likely rate of change over the next century will be at least 10 times quicker than any climate shift in the past 65 million years.
If the trend continues at its current rapid pace, it will place significant stress on terrestrial ecosystems around the world, and many species will need to make behavioral, evolutionary or geographic adaptations to survive.
Although some of the changes the planet will experience in the next few decades are already "baked into the system," how different the climate looks at the end of the 21st century will depend largely on how humans respond.
The findings come from a review of climate research by Noah Diffenbaugh (https://pangea.stanford.edu/people/faculty/noah-diffenbaugh), an associate professor of environmental Earth system science, and Chris Field (http://dge.stanford.edu/people/cfield), a professor of biology (http://biology.stanford.edu/) and of environmental Earth system science (http://pangea.stanford.edu/eess/) and the director of the Department of Global Ecology at the Carnegie Institution. The work is part of a special report on climate change in the current issue of Science.
Diffenbaugh and Field, both senior fellows at the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment (http://woods.stanford.edu/), conducted the targeted but broad review of scientific literature on aspects of climate change that can affect ecosystems, and investigated how recent observations and projections for the next century compare to past events in Earth's history.
For instance, the planet experienced a 5 degree Celsius hike in temperature 20,000 years ago, as Earth emerged from the last ice age. This is a change comparable to the high-end of the projections for warming over the 20th and 21st centuries.
The geologic record shows that, 20,000 years ago, as the ice sheet that covered much of North America receded northward, plants and animals recolonized areas that had been under ice. As the climate continued to warm, those plants and animals moved northward, to cooler climes.
"We know from past changes that ecosystems have responded to a few degrees of global temperature change over thousands of years," said Diffenbaugh. "But the unprecedented trajectory that we're on now is forcing that change to occur over decades. That's orders of magnitude faster, and we're already seeing that some species are challenged by that rate of change."
Some of the strongest evidence for how the global climate system responds to high levels of carbon dioxide comes from paleoclimate studies. Fifty-five million years ago, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was elevated to a level comparable to today. The Arctic Ocean did not have ice in the summer, and nearby land was warm enough to support alligators and palm trees.
"There are two key differences for ecosystems in the coming decades compared with the geologic past," Diffenbaugh said. "One is the rapid pace of modern climate change. The other is that today there are multiple human stressors that were not present 55 million years ago, such as urbanization and air and water pollution."
Record-setting heatDiffenbaugh and Field also reviewed results from two-dozen climate models to describe possible climate outcomes from present day to the end of the century. In general, extreme weather events, such as heat waves and heavy rainfall, are expected to become more severe and more frequent.
For example, the researchers note that, with continued emissions of greenhouse gases at the high end of the scenarios, annual temperatures over North America, Europe and East Asia will increase 2-4 degrees C by 2046-2065. With that amount of warming, the hottest summer of the last 20 years is expected to occur every other year, or even more frequently.
By the end of the century, should the current emissions of greenhouse gases remain unchecked, temperatures over the northern hemisphere will tip 5-6 degrees C warmer than today's averages. In this case, the hottest summer of the last 20 years becomes the new annual norm.
"It's not easy to intuit the exact impact from annual temperatures warming by 6 C," Diffenbaugh said. "But this would present a novel climate for most land areas. Given the impacts those kinds of seasons currently have on terrestrial forests, agriculture and human health, we'll likely see substantial stress from severely hot conditions."
The scientists also projected the velocity of climate change, defined as the distance per year that species of plants and animals would need to migrate to live in annual temperatures similar to current conditions. Around the world, including much of the United States, species face needing to move toward the poles or higher in the mountains by at least one kilometer per year. Many parts of the world face much larger changes.
The human elementSome climate changes will be unavoidable, because humans have already emitted greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and the atmosphere and oceans have already been heated.
"There is already some inertia in place," Diffenbaugh said. "If every new power plant or factory in the world produced zero emissions, we'd still see impact from the existing infrastructure, and from gases already released."
The more dramatic changes that could occur by the end of the century, however, are not written in stone. There are many human variables at play that could slow the pace and magnitude of change – or accelerate it.
Consider the 2.5 billion people who lack access to modern energy resources. This energy poverty means they lack fundamental benefits for illumination, cooking and transportation, and they're more susceptible to extreme weather disasters. Increased energy access will improve their quality of life – and in some cases their chances of survival – but will increase global energy consumption and possibly hasten warming.
Diffenbaugh said that the range of climate projections offered in the report can inform decision-makers about the risks that different levels of climate change pose for ecosystems.
"There's no question that a climate in which every summer is hotter than the hottest of the last 20 years poses real risks for ecosystems across the globe," Diffenbaugh said. "However, there are opportunities to decrease those risks, while also ensuring access to the benefits of energy consumption."

kelvin523

09-30-2022, 08:58 PM

Yawn...

Shaun K

09-30-2022, 09:21 PM

Climate change on pace to occur 10 times faster than any change recorded in past 65 million years, Stanford scientists say

:rolleyes:
Stanford accepts $58 million in Chinese cash while pushing global human rights | The College Fix (https://www.thecollegefix.com/stanford-accepts-58-million-in-chinese-cash-while-pushing-global-human-rights/#:~:text=During%20this%20six-year%20period%2C%20Stanford%20reported%20%2458.1%20million,the%20growing%20influence%20of%20China%20 on%20American%20campuses.)

Stanford Should Disclose The Names of Chinese Donors (stanfordreview.org) (https://stanfordreview.org/stanford-chinese-donors/)

China coal plant approvals surge as energy security trumps climate - Greenpeace | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-coal-plant-approvals-surge-energy-security-trumps-climate-greenpeace-2022-07-20/) - shocking eh, who else will flood us with green wonder products to rubber dog sht while we make zip zero nothing

Stanford to Launch New Climate Change School This Fall | The Scientist Magazine® (the-scientist.com) (https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/stanford-to-launch-new-climate-change-school-this-fall-69982) --- One Billion from John Doer :confused: even al gore made this story lol

John Doerr China – China First Capital Blog (http://blog.chinafirstcapital.com/tag/john-doerr-china/)

Insight: How cleantech tarnished Kleiner and VC star John Doerr | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kleiner-doerr-venture-idUSBRE90F0AD20130116) - solar panels for every american, coal power plants for every chinese town

and the rabbit hole goes on and on

David - WI

09-30-2022, 09:34 PM

How much is ten times “too little to measure"? :rolleyes:

Stoker boy

09-30-2022, 10:09 PM

It’s all bull**** Mr. CUDA.

powerabout

09-30-2022, 10:21 PM

strange that a farm with a thermometer in australia shows no average temp change in 80 years.
Gov tried very hard to make that data go away.

When you look into it all temp data model are created ftom homoginisted data, thats were the scam enters.
They look at the real data and say oh, there was a new building built close by so we need to lower this data and raise this set.
The crooks at Anglia Uni in the uk are onto about version 6 of the fixed data.
Most of the world uses their data.

CUDA

09-30-2022, 10:51 PM

It’s all bull**** Mr. CUDA.

You hate science but love fairy tails?
Yeah and the bible is gods word right, all factual data that can't be disputed:reddevil:

David - WI

09-30-2022, 11:06 PM

Worse than that... when the soviet union collapsed they stopped reporting weather data... so thousands of stations that were in below average temperatures were no longer included in the data. Incredibly, the average reported temperature went UP when they stopped including the colder areas!

pcrussell50

09-30-2022, 11:16 PM

Yawn...

it will always be a yawner when someone in a forum pastes quotes from his shamans instead of supporting his beliefs in his own words, with basic science that we all either know or can find out easily enough.

-Peter

Chaz

10-01-2022, 12:18 AM

Science has proven one thing for certain ... CRUM CAKE will be the "village idiot" for at least the foreseeable future .. :thumbsup:

Public service announcement :

Do not quote or copy + paste anything that comes from his dumb-azz, unless you are willing to de-CRUD your computer ... :mad:

CRUM TARD, maybe you should read up on what would happen if the earth's molten core one day cooled off to solid mass .. ;)

I doubt you would be able to comprehend it, let alone actually put it into your own words .. but it would be one more opportunity for you to show that your still lost as last years Easter eggs ... :p

LITTLE JIMMIE's yearbook picture from Catholic school .. :thumbsup:

http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/shutterstock_69687058.jpg

wettek

10-01-2022, 01:13 AM

According to Al Gore, who was held in reverence by all the climate change fan boys, we were supposed to be underwater from the rising oceans, 20 odd years ago. Didn't work out too well did it, but no one is holding him to account for his predictions which were touted as gospel.
Here in Australia, our leading climate scientist, who was voted "Australian of the Year" several years ago confidently predicted our dams would never fill again and we would be in drought forever. We have just had one of or wettest years on record.
Climate change is a hoax, and people are lining their pockets from it. You can make statistics read whatever you want them to read.

Stoker boy

10-01-2022, 04:24 AM

You hate science but love fairy tails?
Yeah and the bible is gods word right, all factual data that can't be disputed:reddevil:

Mr. CUDA, nothing wrong with science when it’s accurate. The ocean hasn’t risen in my neck of the woods, how about yours? As far as the Bible, if you ever read it you probably would not dispute it.
Tell me what part you dispute and I will see if I can help you understand it.

But I do understand why you dispute the Bible, probably has something to do with you supporting Joe Biden.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Instigator

10-01-2022, 06:03 AM

As with the left, if they don’t like the results/facts, they re-write the rules.

Consider that, for the first 100 yrs, a tornado/thunderstorm “WARNING” meant one was there/on the ground in your area.

And a “WATCH” meant that one had been sited in your area.

Several yrs ago, the tree huggers re-wrote the rules!
(anyone familiar w/the games they played w/the save the manatees scam)?

Now a “WARNING” means “conditions are right, for one to form in your area”!

And “WATCH” means “conditions may change to cause one to form in your area”!

So now they can all claim more “severe weather events” now than in the past.

Remember their mantra, “if you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it”.

Shaun K

10-01-2022, 07:01 AM

You hate science but love fairy tails?
Yeah and the bible is gods word right, all factual data that can't be disputed:reddevil:

You refuse to answer the most basic questions in regard to climate hoax.

Why is China exempt from the Paris accords ?

Why is China constructing Coal powerplants in 2022 ?

Why is The United States selling China all its coal to use for cheap energy?

Why is Wall Street & Corporate America so invested in China as they carry the water for "Climate change" here in the states ?

Why is China producing the vast majority of US products as US Manufactuing has basically ended because of "Climate Change" ?

Up 700%, China’s Consumption Of US Coal Drives Shortages, Not Railroads (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslynlayton/2022/06/01/up-700-chinas-consumption-of-us-coal-drives-shortages-not--railroads/?sh=36b238c71168)

Does China have a separate atmosphere than we do ? This is as confusing as being able to remove your mask when seated at a public restaurant? :confused:

Stoker boy

10-01-2022, 09:11 AM

You refuse to answer the most basic questions in regard to climate hoax.

Why is China exempt from the Paris accords ?

Why is China constructing Coal powerplants in 2022 ?

Why is The United States selling China all its coal to use for cheap energy?

Why is Wall Street & Corporate America so invested in China as they carry the water for "Climate change" here in the states ?

Why is China producing the vast majority of US products as US Manufactuing has basically ended because of "Climate Change" ?

Up 700%, China’s Consumption Of US Coal Drives Shortages, Not Railroads (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslynlayton/2022/06/01/up-700-chinas-consumption-of-us-coal-drives-shortages-not--railroads/?sh=36b238c71168)

Does China have a separate atmosphere than we do ? This is as confusing as being able to remove your mask when seated at a public restaurant? :confused:

Simple answer, people doing the selling are making all the money. As far as public restaurants many of them have signs prohibiting the coronavirus inside while people are eating. :D

Chaz

10-01-2022, 10:44 AM

To all you climate deniers out there ...

I just heard it from a good source, that up north they are witnessing the leaves on the tree's .... are starting to turn brown.

According to meteorologists, they are expecting, cold, white flakes to start falling from the sky with-in months.

Proof positive, that climate change is real ! :D

What ever happened to the ozone layer ?

Must not be that important, it fixed itself, or THEY COULDN'T SELL IT .. :rolleyes:

Global warming

I rekkon after the summit being canceled two years in a row, due to snow and ice, they fired Greta dumb**** ... :eek:

Climate change

Is for those who can't remember what the weather was like a year ago, and the year before that, and the one before that.

They say ignorance is bliss ... I think it just makes them look pretty stupid .. :thumbsup:

Mr. K

You can expect the "village idiot" to wait until your questions are no longer on the current page to copy and paste something else from a fellow left wing "super-tard".
Because if he can't see the questions any longer .. then no one else can .. ;)

From 2019 ...

https://www.yellowbullet.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.yellowbullet.com/attachments/20200426_131218_hdr-jpg.405722/

From 2021 ..

https://live.staticflickr.com/7068/6979833377_57fbc2bc38.jpg

Now less than 40 days till the mid-terms .. look at what a great job they are doing in D.C. They were able to lower the prices by a dollar, in some cases, even more .. :rolleyes:

Time to fire them incompetent morons :cheers:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/10500360494_c87ce4c511_z.jpg

Stoker boy

10-01-2022, 03:48 PM

Today in my area premium is $7.09 a gallon.

David - WI

10-01-2022, 05:27 PM

Today in my area premium is $7.09 a gallon.

$5.05 here today for 91-octane... $4.05 for pee water 87-octane.

CUDA

10-01-2022, 06:01 PM

What WAS the subject?

https://plugboats.com/new-high-speed-ferry-electric-hydrofoil-catamaran/

Chaz

10-01-2022, 06:12 PM

So I read this on the bullet ..

"Was comfortable, the hotel I was at had charging stations so it was very convenient. I rented for an entire week and it was about $474 for the rental. I left with 3683 miles on it and returned it with 3927, so I drove a total of about 244 miles.

Now if I had a normal car that used gas it would have averaged about 30 miles per gallon or so, which means I would have used about 8 gallons of gas @ about $5 per gallon in California so it would have cost me $40. But the tesla was free right - HELL NO. They charged me a TESLA REBILL fee of $287.93, which they said was what was charged to me for charging the car. So with a normal 30 mpg car I would have paid about 16.3 cents per mile. But with the Tesla I paid about $1.17 for every mile I drove."

Hurt'z nor the hotel told him the "charging is free" but there is a $ dollar a minute $ fine for leaving the charger hooked up once the car reached full. :rolleyes:
Lounge by the pool, take a nap, or go to sleep for the night without moving the car to a regular parking spot first. (is that even safe to do in LA) and expect to get clipped .. Sad, but welcome to the "blunder buck butter" way of thinking .. :(

$7.05 a gallon .. they are really stacking the deck. The E-$hiz-box acceptance level and market share must really "be in the tank". :D
Looks like the $830,000,000,000.00 billion scam job, aint gonna be enough money to get American Patriots to go full **** ******* *** **** ;)

Instigator

10-02-2022, 06:29 AM

Cracked me up when our local gas stations were advertising free charging while stopping there for lunch.

So the free 30 min charge might be enough to get you from your office to the station and back???

A while back I stopped being shocked at the number of stupid people and accept that they walk within us.
Ugh!

powerabout

10-02-2022, 08:33 AM

You refuse to answer the most basic questions in regard to climate hoax.

Why is China exempt from the Paris accords ?

Why is China constructing Coal powerplants in 2022 ?

Why is The United States selling China all its coal to use for cheap energy?

Why is Wall Street & Corporate America so invested in China as they carry the water for "Climate change" here in the states ?

Why is China producing the vast majority of US products as US Manufactuing has basically ended because of "Climate Change" ?

Up 700%, China’s Consumption Of US Coal Drives Shortages, Not Railroads (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslynlayton/2022/06/01/up-700-chinas-consumption-of-us-coal-drives-shortages-not--railroads/?sh=36b238c71168)

Does China have a separate atmosphere than we do ? This is as confusing as being able to remove your mask when seated at a public restaurant? :confused:

You missed one
Aircraft emissions exempt so the greenies can fly to all the events

John S

10-02-2022, 08:53 AM

Ahhh, and here it is. Anyone who becomes an environmentalist over wind turbines and lithium battery, but then promotes coal... Well, um, okay. Coal is the opioid of the energy sector. Nuclear backed with renewables is the future. We just need to get off the drug.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/nuclear-power-plant

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 08:59 AM

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 09:07 AM

You missed one
Aircraft emissions exempt so the greenies can fly to all the events

Thats just the in your face hypocrisy of these elitist. I want to know why this country is being Mothballed and China is being pushed to the Top by the people that run this country ?

powerabout

10-02-2022, 09:22 AM

Thats just the in your face hypocrisy of these elitist. I want to know why this country is being Mothballed and China is being pushed to the Top by the people that run this country ?
It appears that way but China has killed itself, its going away for a quiet retirement from the experiment of trading with the world.
Once the USA gets rid of wok ism and Biden it will grow back into a superpower of industry.

I remember when with a few projects in the gulf that came online the USA pumped more oil than Saudi without including fracking.
( you need to build some new refinery's that can process USA crude)
That milestone was going to change the face of the world but other events have masked it.
USA also gone from burning gas off to become one of the worlds largest exporters.
Those that aligned them selves with china russia are suffering now and greater this winter.

Money is already pouring into he USA hence the strong USD.

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 09:45 AM

It appears that way but China has killed itself, its going away for a quiet retirement from the experiment of trading with the world.
Once the USA gets rid of wok ism and Biden it will grow back into a superpower of industry.

I remember when with a few projects in the gulf that came online the USA pumped more oil than Saudi without including fracking.
( you need to build some new refinery's that can process USA crude)
That milestone was going to change the face of the world but other events have masked it.
USA also gone from burning gas off to become one of the worlds largest exporters.
Those that aligned them selves with china russia are suffering now and greater this winter.

Money is already pouring into he USA hence the strong USD.

You should post this in Politics and ill gladly respond, let them talk about their electric future here and we can talk reality elsewhere

John S

10-02-2022, 09:57 AM

hur de dur de dur de dur

Like you said, go back to the politics forum. You apparently need an echo chamber. Good for you. :D

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 10:11 AM

Like you said, go back to the politics forum. You apparently need an echo chamber. Good for you. :D

dumber than dog sht from sunnyland with his sodium nuclear powerplants links :rolleyes:. While his own state is taking down their own last nuclear plant. Buh Bye goofball

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 10:19 AM

https://spectrum.ieee.org/nuclear-power-plant

Try reading your own stupid links, babbling fool

"On the state level, no fewer than 12 (https://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resources/states-restrictions-on-new-nuclear-power-facility.aspx)—California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont—all have their own conditions restricting new nuclear construction."

John S

10-02-2022, 11:14 AM

Hey bud, I realize we have differences of opinion, but at the end of the day, this is just a hi perf boating site, we're not setting policy, or even changing anything really. Just a group of guys chatting on the internet aboot articles they've read, and possibly some anecdotal evidence through life experiences. Or in my case, cherry pick one sentence out of whole articles, so it looks like I'm right, so I can have an online sense of superiority. No reason to take anything personal and whatnot. Sometimes I lash out online, because I have some personal issues that I need to work out. There's no way I would ever be this much of a c**t IRL, that would be bananas. I'd gladly have a beer with ya, we would probably end up being besties.

Ya know Shawn, I couldn't agree more. As for reality.... Every major auto manufacturer is moving EVs into their lineups. I worked for an electrical contractor as an apprentice that did work at Ford plants. Changing over the lines to new products takes years from inception to final product. So... there's that. A line from a movie I once watched... "You caint stop whats comin"

I really do appreciate your attempts to be civil, I know how hard it was for you, seeing your previous postings down in the dumpster fire sub forum. But human nature being what it is, well, ya just cant fight it, can ya? But you tried so hard, dint ya? But it also seems you can't quit me, cos you post buh bye, then post again. You okay Shawn?:D

John S

10-02-2022, 11:24 AM

pcrussell50 I too have heard aboot the E bike service thing. Not from an online forum, but from a service manager that I drank beers with at a couple breweries in N Park. They sell/ service Colnago, Intense, Specialized, Cannondale, Cervelo. His reason wasn't liability, but rather that some of the stuff coming out is pure junk, and they aren't going to waste their time and have to deal with finding the subpar components, especially when the customer tried to save a few bucks by going somewere else. Now that E bikes are like rap labels in the 90's, where there's a new one aboot every day, there are some serious quality issues. Like by bud who used to manage a powersports/ John Deere dealership back in the day dealt with customers that brought in their Home Depot JD. "Go have Home Depot work on it".

As for the fires, there's a long discussion we could have on that. Sample size, outside circumstances, etc. IMO, that Tesla pack fire was a sign of success, abeit, in the face of a setback. the suppression system limited it to the one pack, saving the others. I wonder where that technology could be transferred to???:D

Cbad, eh? If you're ever at Belching Beaver or Carlsbad Brewing, and see a near midget with a Ducati shirt and a MN Twins cap on, go hit him up for a beer, and start talking how you love EVs and those windmill thingys.:D

Shaun K

10-02-2022, 11:29 AM

Ya know Shawn, I couldn't agree more. As for reality.... Every major auto manufacturer is moving EVs into their lineups. I worked for an electrical contractor as an apprentice that did work at Ford plants. Changing over the lines to new products takes years from inception to final product. So... there's that. A line from a movie I once watched... "You caint stop whats comin"

I really do appreciate your attempts to be civil, I know how hard it was for you, seeing your previous postings down in the dumpster fire sub forum. But human nature being what it is, well, ya just cant fight it, can ya? But you tried so hard, dint ya? But it also seems you can't quit me, cos you post buh bye, then post again. You okay Shawn?:D

Your'e correct I should have squeezed that into the buh bye post. Then realized the link you sent stated 12 blue states already had a ban on new nuclear, something I was already aware of. Obviously Nuclear is the answer, we already agreed on that, but I thought we already agreed it wasn't a reality of happening. It's too cheap and available and very green. In any case don't be afraid of the sub forums, come on down with us uneducated filthy animals and shoot the sht.

pcrussell50

10-02-2022, 11:41 AM

Ya know Shawn, I couldn't agree more. As for reality.... Every major auto manufacturer is moving EVs into their lineups. … snip… "You caint stop whats comin"

Eh… Ok. Then does this mean we can finally stop subsidizing rich man’s toy BEVs, stop requiring by government force that a certain and ever increasing percentage of all new cars sold be BEVs, and take the government boot off the neck of domestic oil production?

I mean since this is all happening naturally, then we don’t need the use of force, right? Maybe save the working man a few bucks instead of forcing him to help LeBron or Bill Gates buy his Porsche Taycan?

-Peter

John S

10-02-2022, 12:21 PM

QUOTE=pcrussell50;3363135]Eh… Ok. Then does this mean we can finally stop subsidizing rich man’s toy BEVs, stop requiring by government force that a certain and ever increasing percentage of all new cars sold be BEVs, and take the government boot off the neck of domestic oil production?

I mean since this is all happening naturally, then we don’t need the use of force, right? Maybe save the working man a few bucks instead of forcing him to help LeBron or Bill Gates buy his Porsche Taycan?

-Peter[/QUOTE]

My answer is twofold. 1- Are you asking this as if I have the deciding vote? 2- I appreciate your rose colored belief in a better world, but I hate to break it to ya, government has always favored the rich man. If that weren't the case, there wouldn't be factories in China building our ****. Like it or not, it is what it is. Not sure aboot rich man's toys, but that stuff always starts that way and filters down (electronics being exhibit A). You can scream at the sky, or accept it and adapt. Much like the killing of incandescent lightbulbs, one day you won't even think aboot it. Just be happy they haven't started a carburetor seizure department yet. :D

Enough of this for me today, I have a Motogp race to watch at Doffo, then a ride to Idlewyld. Happy Sunday funday, gents.:cool:

JPEROG

10-02-2022, 01:43 PM

I love Johns quote "the government has always favored the rich man"--then the governments quote is exact opposite. I guess these guys need to communicate or understand each other a little better!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuRtwPJaI_g

Joe

pcrussell50

10-02-2022, 01:44 PM

Not sure aboot rich man's toys, but that stuff always starts that way and filters down

That’s OK mate. I can help you with your clarity. Tesla (rich man’s toys), sells more cars in six months than Nissan has sold Leafs in 12 years on the market. It’s not a case of new tech starting expensive and getting cheaper. None of it is getting cheaper*. What’s happening is that ordinary people don’t want boring battery operated cars. They want Teslas and Porsche Taycans and Audi E-trons and Rivians. And if they can’t afford one of those, (rich man’s toys), they are buying petrol cars. The market is speaking loud and clear on this. So if you want your battery revolution to reach down to ordinary people, you need government to force it. If you are OK with governance by force, you should be pretty happy these days.

*Why aren’t battery cars getting cheaper, like say computer parts? Because contrary to urban legend, the existing battery technology is already mature. Ancient actually, by high-tech standards. Lithium ion is thirty years old. Electronic commutation, induction and PM motor tech is even older. Any further advances in those two spaces are going to be evolutionary, not revolutionary. The needed revolutionary tech would be something two orders of magnitude better than lithium ion. But that might as well be anti-gravity levitation technology for as close as we are to something like that.

-Peter

Stoker boy

10-02-2022, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=Shaun K;3363110]What ? You say something John ?[/QUOTE

He likes to make noise.

Stoker boy

10-02-2022, 03:56 PM

What WAS the subject?

https://plugboats.com/new-high-speed-ferry-electric-hydrofoil-catamaran/

It’s about electric propulsion still being inadequate.

pcrussell50

10-02-2022, 04:35 PM

It’s about electric propulsion still being inadequate.

The article tell it's own lies. It says:

A future of fast, fossil-free ferries

Yet the article says it uses a fuel cell (hint: fossil) in addition to batteries. Fuel cells use fossil fuel to create electricity.

As with that phony clickbait "Air Canada battery airliner" piece, There are some thing about this battery ferry that don't quite pass the smell test. The article is dated August 2021 and says that the ferries are supposed to be in service in 2022. Are they in service? The article calls them the "Beluga24". There is no wikipedia article on them. There are no youtube videos of one running. Do they even exist?

From the engineer perspective:
-fuel cell is NOT fossil free
-batteries would not be enough for all day reliable service at planing hull speeds
-the idea of a foil to provide lift and reduce drag is a good one... If it is ever to actually work as advertised, and there is not yet any evidence I can find that it does, the foil will be the saving grace... If they can engineer one big enough and strong enough. I ride a battery powered foil surfboard and once up on the foil, the thrust requirements go waaay down. It's super impressive. Of course in foil surfboarding, crashing is more acceptable than it would be in a commercial ferry boat.

===

By the way, the leading candidate for battery airline travel, the Eviation Alice made it's first test flight a day or two ago. It was just the test pilot and lasted eight minutes. The CEO of the company said: that it cannot meet it's goals with existing battery technology, it cannot meet it's goals with the existing design. It may not meet FAA certification standards for passenger carrying. Ever. At least he's honest.

Eviation is YEARS ahead of anybody else. At least they built something. And they are even one-for-two. Their first one burned to the ground in a lithium fire. But their second one has not. Yet. That clickbait Air Canada scam that half of social media fell for... they haven't even built a full scale cardboard model of one yet.

-Peter

Stoker boy

10-02-2022, 06:18 PM

Don't Worry Boy

I do worry about you Mr. CUDA, you’re not able to think for yourself.

powerabout

10-02-2022, 06:45 PM

Electric is all about politics, carbon credits and epa credits
EV's will reduce pollution in cities

John S

10-07-2022, 11:57 AM

EV's will reduce pollution in cities

Correct. I don't think it's the end all/ be all answer to every issue. But this is where EV will be an asset. Short haul/ dedicated route delivery, and high density population cities.

Not sure I could do this, but kudos to Tony for doing something different. C2 is my favorite car. Thing is cool AF

https://insideevs.com/news/614820/jay-leno-tony-hawk-tesla-corvette/

pcrussell50

10-07-2022, 04:25 PM

Correct. I don't think it's the end all/ be all answer to every issue. But this is where EV will be an asset. Short haul/ dedicated route delivery, and high density population cities.

Not sure I could do this, but kudos to Tony for doing something different. C2 is my favorite car. Thing is cool AF

https://insideevs.com/news/614820/jay-leno-tony-hawk-tesla-corvette/

DOH! Now maybe it’s just because I’m into road racing, but why did they put the battery in the front instead of the rear? A blown opportunity to even the weight distribution or give it a rear bias. The Corvette is ostensibly “America’s sports car”. And it’s already nose heavy enough as it is, much less now that they put a battery up there. Now, maybe since it’s a hobby car, they just have a dinky little 50 mile battery up there?

But Who really knows? Because these puff pieces never seem to offer up any tech details. Or maybe they just know their audience and their eyes glaze over (or worse) when presented with the science?

BTW, if you want to learn good stuff about BEVs, the Engineering Explained, youtube channel brings the tech. Big time. He does the math balance for electric cars, (which is tolerable as long as you don’t mind great weight), Battery trucks, etc… And before you (falsely) accuse me of being against battery cars, the guy behind Engineering Explained, has a Tesla and loves it. It’s just that he doesn’t talk fluff and puff. He talks straight. Good with the bad.

-Peter

kelvin523

10-07-2022, 06:41 PM

A helium filled (or steam) mylar pontoon boat may help the physics issue a bit.

CUDA

10-07-2022, 08:57 PM

Always something new ...

<header class="article-header" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; background: transparent; padding: 20px; position: absolute; top: 0px; right: 0px; height: 455.344px; flex-direction: row; align-items: center; width: 490px;">

</header>"Our device shows excellent scalability at a low fabrication cost, says Tan Swee Ching. "Compared to other MEG structures and devices, our invention is simpler and easier for scaling-up integrations and connections." (Credit: Jacob Joaquin/Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thumbuki/4353994472/))

<article class="article-wrap container" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto; padding-left: 15px; padding-right: 15px; width: 1170px; margin-bottom: 100px; max-width: 970px; position: relative; color: rgb(26, 25, 25); font-family: NeuzeitOffice-Regular; font-size: 20px;">
NATIONAL UNIVERSITY OF SINGAPORE (https://www.futurity.org/university/national-university-of-singapore/)

Researchers have created a self-charging, ultra-thin device that generates electricity from air moisture.
Imagine being able to generate electricity by harnessing moisture in the air around you with just everyday items like sea salt and a piece of fabric, or even powering everyday electronics with a non-toxic battery that is as thin as paper.
Researchers developed the new moisture-driven electricity generation (MEG) device made of a thin layer of fabric—about 0.3 millimeters (about 0.0118 inches) in thickness—sea salt, carbon ink, and a special water-absorbing gel.
The concept of MEG devices is built upon the ability of different materials to generate electricity from the interaction with moisture in the air. This area has been receiving growing interest due to its potential for a wide range of real-world applications, including self-powered devices such as wearable electronics (https://www.futurity.org/air-conditioning-wearable-device-sensors-2249232/) like health monitors, electronic skin sensors, and information storage devices (https://www.futurity.org/magnetized-fabric-stores-data-1591452/).
Key challenges of current MEG technologies include water saturation of the device when exposed to ambient humidity and unsatisfactory electrical performance. Thus, the electricity generated by conventional MEG devices is insufficient to power electrical devices and is also not sustainable.
To overcome these challenges, a research team led by Tan Swee Ching, assistant professor from the materials science and engineering department at the National University of Singapore’s College of Design and Engineering (CDE), devised a new MEG device containing two regions of different properties to perpetually maintain a difference in water content across the regions to generate electricity and allow for electrical output for hundreds of hours.
A paper on the work appears in the journal Advanced Materials (https://doi.org/10.1002/adma.202201228).
The new moisture-driven electricity generation device capitalizes on the difference in moisture content of the wet and dry regions of the carbon-coated fabric to create an electric current. Sea salt is used as a moisture absorbent for the wet region.
The researchers’ MEG device consists of a thin layer of fabric which was coated with carbon nanoparticles. In their study, the team used a commercially available fabric made of wood pulp and polyester.
One region of the fabric is coated with a hygroscopic ionic hydrogel, and this region is known as the wet region. Made using sea salt, the special water-absorbing gel can absorb more than six times its original weight, and it is used to harvest moisture from the air.
“Sea salt was chosen as the water-absorbing compound due to its non-toxic properties and its potential to provide a sustainable option for desalination plants to dispose of the generated sea salt and brine,” says Tan.
The other end of the fabric is the dry region which does not contain a hygroscopic ionic hydrogel layer. This is to ensure that this region is kept dry and water is confined to the wet region.
Once the MEG device is assembled, electricity is generated when the ions of sea salt are separated as water is absorbed in the wet region. Free ions with a positive charge (cations) are absorbed by the carbon nanoparticles which are negatively charged. This causes changes to the surface of the fabric, generating an electric field across it. These changes to the surface also give the fabric the ability to store electricity for use later.
Using a unique design of wet-dry regions, the researchers were able to maintain high water content in the wet region and low water content in the dry region. This will sustain electrical output even when the wet region is saturated with water. After being left in an open humid environment for 30 days, water was still maintained in the wet region demonstrating the effectiveness of the device in sustaining electrical output.
“With this unique asymmetric structure, the electric performance of our MEG device is significantly improved in comparison with prior MEG technologies, thus making it possible to power many common electronic devices, such as health monitors (https://www.futurity.org/wearable-health-monitor-sensors-brains-2779142/) and wearable electronics,” explains Tan.
The team’s MEG device also demonstrated high flexibility and was able to withstand stress from twisting, rolling, and bending. Interestingly, to show its outstanding flexibility, the researchers folded the fabric into an origami crane which did not affect the overall electrical performance of the device.
The MEG device has immediate applications due to its ease of scalability and commercially available raw materials. One of the most immediate applications is for use as a portable power source for mobile powering electronics directly by ambient humidity.
“After water absorption, one piece of power-generating fabric that is 1.5 by 2 centimeters in size can provide up to 0.7 volts (V) of electricity for over 150 hours under a constant environment,” says research team member Zhang Yaoxin.
The researchers have also successfully demonstrated the scalability of the new device in generating electricity for different applications. The team connected three pieces of the power-generating fabric together and placed them into a 3D printed case that was the size of a standard AA battery. The voltage of the assembled device was tested to reach as high as 1.96V—higher than a commercial AA battery of about 1.5V—which is enough to power small electronic devices such as an alarm clock.
The scalability of the invention, the convenience of obtaining commercially available raw materials as well as the low fabrication cost of about 0.15 Singapore dollars (0.11 USD) per meter square make the MEG device suitable for mass production.
“Our device shows excellent scalability at a low fabrication cost. Compared to other MEG structures and devices, our invention is simpler and easier for scaling-up integrations and connections. We believe it holds vast promise for commercialization,” says Tan.
The researchers have filed a patent for the technology and are planning to explore potential commercialization strategies for real-world applications.
Source: National University of Singapore (https://news.nus.edu.sg/self-charging-ultra-thin-device-that-generates-electricity-from-air-moisture/)

</article>

kelvin523

10-07-2022, 09:00 PM

#Spam

powerabout

10-08-2022, 01:11 AM

PanRonnie

10-08-2022, 01:50 AM

it,s beginning to look like RAW materials are going to put the BEV car on the back bench
Mr musk is beginning to get the picture that in order to build his tesla,s he needs China and Russia
This is also the case or hopefully less with fuel cells
Suddenly he is afraid of world war 3? and there are problems with starlink!
They made an effort to build the F150 battery with mainly nickel
So expect not only to see price rises due to inflation but also materials going up
so for the very close future combustion engines are likely to stick around some more

XstreamVking

10-08-2022, 06:28 AM

pcrussell50

10-08-2022, 08:09 AM

After being flooded by the hurricane the ev’s are going up in flames here in fla. Guess they don’t like being in water even if it just barely touched the battery pack. Real world problem for all battery powered vehicles that owners have to deal with.

Fire ties into the issue facing lithium ion BEV batteries… Immense weight for very little capacity, while skirting the ragged edge of being a fire bomb. You can kinda sorta get away with it in an idealized case such as a road car where due to low rolling resistance it only takes 20-25hp to go at freeway speeds. Any more drag than that and battery range goes down the tubes. That’s why you don’t see full sized SUVs or minivans using battery power. The Rivian is a mini-truck and it weighs a hair under 8000lbs. (!)

Which is where the fire risk comes in:

So the problem is the batteries and their low capacity per weight. Well the dirty little secret is that you can add capacity… Except they are already at or near the limit of acceptable chemical stability. One of the reasons BEV batteries cost so much is the heroic measures it takes to keep them from turning into fire bombs. As we are seeing, they are already risky enough as it is. Accident damage, flood damage, pretty much anything turns them into fire bomb risk. If you pack even more in, you might get a little extra range, but it will come at greatly increased risk of fire. It’s funny … You keep hearing from excited new BEV evangelists (even here at S&F), who think the future improvements are just around the corner. As if somehow there is rapid improvement going on. There isn’t. How many new Tesla owners had one five-seven years ago? The answer is, nearly nobody. But if you are one of the handful, how much has it improved? The answer is nearly not at all. Sure there is more charging infrastructure now, but the battery tech hasn’t changed a bit. Not. One. Bit. The only ways to get better range are to install ever bigger and heavier batteries, or pack them chemically tighter and make them even more of a fire bomb than they are. That’s it. Period.

The bloke from Chicago I went crook with two weeks ago with a Tesla Model S and a picture of a big Merc powered cat, admitted that “towing is a problem”. But he is riddled with that new-to-BEV excitement and evangelistic faith that “technology” will somehow solve the problem. Yet when asked, he offered no ideas what technology would solve “the towing problem”. Of course in fairness, he could not answer that question because none exists. We have hit the limit with lithium ion. It's 30 year old, fully mature technology. There is not much more blood to be safely squeezed from that stone. More range either means more weight, or more of a fire bomb. Period. And we have been at that limit and gone no further for at least ten years now. At least. What BEV needs is something better than the ancient lithium ion tech it’s relying on now, but even after thirty years there is still nothing better.

For the new BEV evangelist who is hoping for something more than a road car, (such as a planing hull boat, or an airliner), the road ahead (pun intended), is going to be slow and disappointing. THose of us who aren’t new to this, and have been following it for a while, have seen nothing new come along except bigger batteries and more applications for the existing old tech batteries, such battery skateboards (which I am into), and battery mopeds which seem like all the rage. Both are still using ancient battery technology because there is nothing else. By ancient, I mean thirty years old … which is ancient when it comes to tech.

-Peter

pcrussell50

10-08-2022, 08:25 AM

I think EV has a place, just don't try to force it on people.

It absolutely does. The widespread resurgence of mopeds for instance. You see them everywhere. Including big name bike brands like Specialized. Further in things such as RC models where you don’t carry human beings, or skateboards where if there is a fire you can simply jump off, you can use lithium polymer. Which is lighter and more energy dense than lithium ion, but even more fire prone if that is possible. My skateboard uses lithium polymer. I had to build it myself though. No manufacturer will sell one already installed with lipo. One day I might convert a lithium ion moped into lithium polymer just to get a little more range and less weight. So while there has been little to no advancement in battery technology, there has been advancement in hub drives and motor installation, dedicated moped frames instead of adapting existing frames to motor drive, things like that that improve the owner experience, even while there is hardly any more technological room to improve the batteries themselves.

Another dark horse... Lithium ion has uses in areas where you don't need light weight and you have access to constant charging. A mate of mine is designing a high end coffee grinder (talking $1500 minimum), and it will be driven by a lithium ion battery pack. It won't be portable mind you. It will be plugged in and constantly charged. But the brushless DC motor will get it's energy from the battery pack. It will be big and heavy but in a high end grinder, that's a feature not a bug.

-Peter

Chaz

10-09-2022, 01:07 PM

#Spam

LOL .. from spam to scam .. :D

I saw on American Greed where Trevor Milton scammed billions from the left wing tards .. that so wanted to have a hydrogen / electric / flex / POS / truck ... :rolleyes:

P.T.Barnum was right, there is a fool born every minute. Nikola .. sounds like it belongs with Tesla .. my favorite part was the truck going down hill .. with no motor in it .. at highway speeds .. "we never said it did it under it's own propulsion" .. :p

https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/nikola-founder-trevor-miltonfederal-fraud-charges-american-greed

CRUD .. there's the truck of your dreams. A standard F-150 with some plastic junk hung on it to "make it not look like a Ford to regular idiots" .. Hurry, you can probably still throw your money away ... :p
Goes for you too honey badger .. err ... commadore ... ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpO7qEmouco

David - WI

10-09-2022, 01:52 PM

Elon is still telling people they can cross lakes & streams with a Model 3 or CyberPunk truck. :eek:

Maybe Teslas are better than the others?

CUDA

10-09-2022, 02:49 PM

#Spam

Pray -Tell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore

The National University of Singapore (NUS) is a national (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_university) research university (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_university) in Singapore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore). Founded in 1905 as the Straits Settlements and Federated Malay States Government Medical School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yong_Loo_Lin_School_of_Medicine), NUS is the oldest autonomous university (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_university) in the country.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-6) It offers degree programmes in a wide range of disciplines at both the undergraduate and postgraduate levels, including in the sciences, medicine and dentistry, design and environment, law, arts and social sciences, engineering, business, computing, and music. It plays a key role in the ongoing development of modern technology and science, offering a global approach to education and research, with a focus on expertise and perspectives of Asia.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-7)
NUS is considered one of the most prestigious academic institutions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_institutions) in the world.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-9) It has consistently featured in the top 100 universities as ranked by the Academic Ranking of World Universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities), the QS World University Rankings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QS_World_University_Rankings), and the Times Higher Education World University Rankings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Higher_Education_World_University_Rankings).
NUS's main campus is located in the southwestern part of Singapore, adjacent to the Kent Ridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Ridge) subzone of Queenstown, accommodating an area of 170 ha (420 acres).[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-history-10) The Duke–NUS Medical School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke%E2%80%93NUS_Medical_School), a postgraduate medical school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_school) jointly established with Duke University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_University), is located at the Outram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outram,_Singapore) campus;[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-11) its Bukit Timah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukit_Timah) campus houses the Faculty of Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore_Faculty_of_Law) and Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew_School_of_Public_Policy); and the Yale-NUS College (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale-NUS_College), a liberal arts college established in collaboration with Yale University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_University) that is scheduled to be merged with the University Scholars Programme in 2025 to form NUS College, is located at University Town (commonly known as UTown).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-12)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-yalenusmerge-13)[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_University_of_Singapore#cite_note-nuscollege-14)
NUS includes one Nobel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize) laureate, one Tang Prize (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Prize) laureate and one Vautrin Lud (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vautrin_Lud_Prize) Laureate among its affiliated faculty members and researchers.

///////////////

Solid-state NASA battery beats the Model Y's 4680 pack at energy density by stacking all cells in one case

<figure class="news-teaser-image" style="float: right; padding-left: 0.8em; padding-bottom: 0.8em; text-align: center; width: 245px; margin: 0px;"><source srcset="fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_2447cde9c0.jpg 1x, fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_d041264e46.jpg 2x">https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_2447cde9c0.jpg (https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc3/sabers_2.jpg)<figcaption class="csc-textpic-caption" style="font-style: italic; text-align: left; caption-side: bottom; display: inline;">Solid-state batteries can one day power planes (image: NASA)</figcaption></figure>NASA has achieved a breakthrough in its solid-state battery research aimed at electricity-powered transportation. NASA's solid-state battery stacks all of its cells in one casing, reducing weight and increasing the energy density twice compared to that of Li-ion batteries in the typical electric car.
<aside class="nbc-right-float nbc-right-float-hide"><aside class="introa_whole" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 0.89em; overflow: hidden; position: relative;"><article>

</article></aside></aside>NASA's Solid-state Architecture Batteries for Enhanced Rechargeability and Safety (SABERS) project has reached a research milestone, announced the agency. After a few years of experiments and university partnerships, NASA's solid-state battery has hit the whopping 500 Wh/kg energy density, double that of the typical electric car, allowing it to propel electric planes even.
In fact, NASA has been doing the solid-state battery research precisely as part of its Convergent Aeronautics Solutions project for sustainable aviation. In the process, NASA managed to discover a novel packing method for solid-state cells that reduces the battery weight by 30-40% and doubles its energy density compared to the current liquid Li-ion batteries in most electric cars. For comparison, Tesla's 4680 batteries in the Model Y (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-able-to-slash-the-Model-Y-price-significantly-with-4680-battery-pack-cost-savings.647715.0.html) boast sub-300 Wh/kg energy density, while CATL's upcoming M3P phosphate packs for the standard range Model Y (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-Model-Y-first-in-line-for-CATL-s-superior-M3P-phosphate-battery-with-longer-range.638725.0.html) are rated at 160 Wh/kg.
SABERS’s battery eschews individual packaging and stacks all solid-state cells on top of one another within one single case. Not only is this design much lighter and energy-dense than current EV batteries, but it also exhibits the inherent endurance of solid-state packs. NASA's tests of the new solid-state battery found that it can withstand temperatures twice higher than what current Li-ion batteries in electric vehicles are able to endure before bursting into flames.
This makes it suitable for use on planes and the NASA team is testing its solid-state battery for continued performance at even higher pressures and temperatures. Improved battery safety is a very important advantage of the solid-state technology as the recent Hurricane Ian devastation demonstrated. After all, putting out Teslas which caught on fire (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Water-damaged-EV-batteries-turn-Tesla-Model-X-and-other-electric-cars-in-Florida-into-fire-hazards.660368.0.html) during the floods, and whose flaming battery packs couldn't be easily extinguished, turned out to be a major new headache for the disaster recovery crews.

Chaz

10-09-2022, 03:44 PM

Just more mindless copy and paste from ... well, we know his official title .. :p

I don't dare quote anything from the infected tard, but :

"Solid state battery's can one day"

Sounds a lot like ...

https://i.imgur.com/CWNf4mLl.jpg

Stoker boy

10-09-2022, 05:19 PM

Chaz

10-09-2022, 07:10 PM

The modern day equivalent of Jethro / Jethrene Bodine ...

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.68f96aef1be986cf3706dc1b42f08cee?rik=zP241WIzNuO8NA&riu=http%3a%2f%2f1.bp.blogspot.com%2f-GOnR-Hs4T_s%2fTbDE3WwxX9I%2fAAAAAAAABBI%2fAGF7k9HO4eE%2fs320%2fjethro.jpg&ehk=%2b5XLqiJZFs9mx5DVb8mMN3mfe%2bIiymX955YqQ0zdY38%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.imjuaesfIZIkBcfOu9zKmwHaFm?w=242&h=183&c=7&r=0&o=5&dpr=1.88&pid=1.7

CUDA

10-09-2022, 07:43 PM

Max Baer Jr.From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#mw-head)Jump to search (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#searchInput)
<tbody>
Max Baer Jr.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Max_Baer%2C_Jr._1962.JPG/220px-Max_Baer%2C_Jr._1962.JPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Max_Baer,_Jr._1962.JPG)As Jethro in 1962

Born
Maximilian Adalbert Baer Jr.

December 4, 1937 (age 84)
Oakland, California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California)

Occupation
Actor, producer, director, comedian, entrepreneur

Years active
1949–1991

Spouse
Joanne Kathleen Hill

(<abbr title="married" style="border-bottom: 0px; cursor: help;">m.</abbr> 1966; <abbr title="divorced" style="border-bottom: 0px; cursor: help;">div.</abbr> 1971)<wbr>

Parent

Max Baer Sr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_(boxer)) (father)

</tbody>
Maximilian Adalbert Baer Jr. ( December 4, 1937) is an American actor, producer, comedian, and director widely known for his role as Jethro Bodine, the dim-witted relative of Jed Clampett (played by Buddy Ebsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Ebsen)) on The Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies).
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1Early life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Early_life)
2Career (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Career)

2.1The Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#The_Beverly_Hillbillies)
2.2Later career (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Later_career)
2.3Other ventures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Other_ventures)

3Recent years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Recent_years)
4Filmography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#Filmography)

4.1List of credits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#List_of_credits)

5References (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#References)
6External links (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#External_links)

Early life[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=1)]Baer was born Maximilian Adalbert Baer Jr. in Oakland, California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California), on December 4, 1937, the son of boxing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing) champion Max Baer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_(boxer)) and his wife Mary Ellen Sullivan.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-1) His paternal grandfather was of German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans) Jewish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) descent, and his mother and paternal grandmother were both of Scots-Irish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans) descent. His brother and sister are James Manny Baer (1941–2009) and Maude Baer (b. 1943). His uncle was boxer and actor Buddy Baer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Baer).
He attended Christian Brothers High School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Brothers_High_School_(Sacramento,_California)) in Sacramento, where he earned letters in four sports and twice won the junior title at the Sacramento Open (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Open_(PGA_Tour)) golf tournament. (Playing with Charlie Sifford (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Sifford), he later won the pro–am (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro%E2%80%93am) tournament at the 1968 Andy Williams - San Diego Open (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_Insurance_Open).)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-2)
Baer earned a bachelor's degree in business administration from Santa Clara University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_University), with a minor in philosophy.
Career[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=2)]Baer's first acting role was in Goldilocks and the Three Bears (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldilocks_and_the_Three_Bears) at the Blackpool Pavilion in England in 1949. He began acting professionally in 1960 at Warner Bros. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros.), where he made appearances on television programs such as Maverick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(TV_series)), Surfside 6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_6), Hawaiian Eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Eye), Cheyenne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_(TV_series)), The Roaring 20's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roaring_20%27s_(TV_series)), and 77 Sunset Strip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/77_Sunset_Strip).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-TVGuide-3) His career took off two years later, when he joined the cast of The Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-TVGuide-3)
The Beverly Hillbillies[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=3)]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Max_Baer_Jr%2C_Nancy_Kulp_and_Sharon_Tate_in_The_Beverly_Hillbillies%2C_The_Giant_Jackrabbit_episode .jpg/220px-Max_Baer_Jr%2C_Nancy_Kulp_and_Sharon_Tate_in_The_Beverly_Hillbillies%2C_The_Giant_Jackrabbit_episode .jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Max_Baer_Jr,_Nancy_Kulp_and_Sharon_Tate_in_The_Beverly_Hillbillies,_The_Giant_Jackrabbit_episod e.jpg)

Baer, Nancy Kulp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Kulp), and Sharon Tate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Tate) in The Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies) (1965)

In 1962, Baer was cast in the role of the naïve but well-meaning Jethro Bodine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies#Jethro_Bodine), Jed Clampett's cousin Pearl's son.
He continued to take other parts during the nine-year run of The Beverly Hillbilles and appeared on the television programs Vacation Playhouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love,_American_Style) and Love, American Style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love,_American_Style), as well as in the Western A Time for Killing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_for_Killing).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-TVGuide-3)
He declined to appear in the 1981 TV movie Return of the Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_of_the_Beverly_Hillbillies) and his character was recast as a result.
Later career[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=4)]
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Following the cancellation of The Beverly Hillbillies in 1971, Baer made numerous guest appearances on television, but he found his TV acting career hampered by typecasting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typecasting). He concentrated on feature motion pictures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film), especially behind the camera, writing, producing, and directing. Baer wrote and produced the drama Macon County Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macon_County_Line) (1974),[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-TVGuide-3) in which he played Deputy Reed Morgan, the highest-grossing movie per dollar invested at the time. Made for US$110,000, it earned almost US$25 million at the box office, a record that lasted until The Blair Witch Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blair_Witch_Project) superseded it in 1999.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Baer also wrote, produced, and directed the drama The Wild McCullochs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_McCullochs) (1975), and played the role of Culver Robinson.
Baer is credited with being one of the first to use the title of a popular song as the title and plot anchor of a film, acquiring the rights to Bobbie Gentry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbie_Gentry)'s hit song (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Billie_Joe) and producing the 1976 film Ode to Billy Joe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Billy_Joe_(film)), which he also directed. Made for US$1.1 million, the film grossed $27 million at the box office, and earned over US$2.65 million outside the US, US$4.75 million from television, and US$2.5 million from video. The film starred Robby Benson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robby_Benson) and Glynnis O'Connor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glynnis_O%27Connor).
Since the success of Ode to Billy Joe, the motion picture industry has produced more than 100 song-title movies. Baer pursued the rights to the hit song "Like a Virgin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_a_Virgin_(song))", recorded by the singer Madonna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna) in 1984. When ABC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company) tried to prevent him from making the film, he sued and won a judgment of more than US$2 million.
He directed the 1979 comedy Hometown U.S.A. before retiring to his home at Lake Tahoe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe), Nevada. He continues to make occasional guest appearances on television.
Other ventures[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=5)]In 1985, Baer began investigating the gambling industry. He noted that tourists paid a US$5 to $6 admission to tour the "Ponderosa Ranch", in Incline Village, Nevada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incline_Village,_Nevada), which was the location for filming exterior scenes for episodes of TV's popular program Bonanza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonanza). The Ponderosa was a cattle ranch with horses, barns, Bonanza displays, restaurants, hay rides, and a wedding chapel, and tourists enjoyed the Ponderosa because of the Bonanza connection. Baer decided that tourists would also pay for something dealing with The Beverly Hillbillies. He began using his Jethro Bodine role as a marketing opportunity toward the gambling and hotel industry. Baer obtained the sublicensing rights, including food and beverage rights, to The Beverly Hillbillies from CBS in 1991. His business partner estimates the cost of obtaining the rights and developing the ideas at US$1 million. Sixty-five Beverly Hillbillies slot machines were built in 1999 and placed in 10 casinos.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-4)
In late 2003, Baer attempted the redevelopment of a former Walmart (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walmart) location in Carson City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_City,_Nevada) into a Beverly Hillbillies-themed hotel and casino, but was unsuccessful due to building code conflicts and other developers on the neighboring properties. On May 4, 2007, he announced the sale of the property and the purchase of another parcel just outside Carson City, in neighboring Douglas County, where he expected less resistance to his plans. Baer purchased a 2.5-acre (1.0 ha) parcel in north Douglas County for US$1.2 million, and would purchase an additional 20 acres (8.1 ha) once he obtained the required zoning variances. The plans were for a 40,000-square-foot (3,700 m2) gambling area with 800 slot machines and 16 tables, flanked by various eateries, including "Jethro's All You Ken Et Buffet". The project would feature a showroom, cinema complex and a 240-room, five-story hotel.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-5)
Plans for Baer's casino included a 200-foot-tall (61 m) mock oil derrick spouting a 20- to 30-foot (9.1 m) flame.
As of July 2012, development of Jethro's Casino had been suspended. Ongoing litigation involving Baer, the developer and Douglas County has delayed the development of the project indefinitely.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-6)
In 2014, Baer sued CBS after claiming a secret deal with a Des Moines-based Jethro's BBQ was interfering with his opportunity to cash in on his role from the iconic television show. The lawsuit claims that Baer negotiated a deal with CBS for the rights to use the fictional character and other motifs from the show to create a chain of restaurants, hotels, and casinos.
Recent years[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=6)]He remained close friends with Buddy Ebsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Ebsen) until Ebsen's death from pneumonia on July 6, 2003. Just before his acting mentor's death, Donna Douglas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Douglas) and he both had visited Ebsen in the hospital.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-7)
In January 2008, Baer’s live-in girlfriend, 30-year-old Penthouse model Chere Rhodes, committed suicide in the 70-year-old's Lake Tahoe home. Her suicide note mentioned "relationship problems".[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-9)
The 2015 death of co-star Donna Douglas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Douglas) left Baer as the only surviving regular cast member of The Beverly Hillbillies.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baer_Jr.#cite_note-10)
Filmography[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=7)]List of credits[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Baer_Jr.&action=edit&section=8)]
<tbody>
Year
Title
Role
Notes

1960
Maverick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(TV_series))
Ticket Taker / Chuck / Brazos
3 episodes
— "Bundle from Britain"
— "A Bullet for the Teacher"
— "Kiz"

1960–1961
Surfside 6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_6)
Joe Wilk / Party Guest
2 episodes
— "High Tide" (1960)
— "Facts on the Fire" (1961)

1960–1961
Cheyenne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_(TV_series))
Callow / Bert McGuire / Pete
4 episodes
— "Two Trails to Santa Fe" (1960)
— "Duel at Judas Basin" (1961)
— "The Beholden" (1961)
— "The Frightened Town" (1961)

1960–1961
Hawaiian Eye (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Eye)
Ali / Bill Gorham
2 episodes
— "Vanessa Vanishes" (1960)
— "The Big Dealer" (1961)

1960–1961
77 Sunset Strip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/77_Sunset_Strip)
Government Man / Luther Martell / Billy Blackston
3 episodes
— "Double Trouble" (1960)
— "The Corsican Caper" (1961)
— "The Chrome Coffin" (1961)

1961
Bronco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronco_(TV_series))
Cowboy
Episode: "The Invaders

1961
Sugarfoot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarfoot)
Frank
Episode: "Angel"

1962
Follow the Sun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follow_the_Sun_(TV_series))
Tom Baylor
Episode: "A Choice of Weapons"

1962
It's a Mans' World (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Man%27s_World_(TV_series))
1st GI
Episode: "Drive Over to Exeter"

1962–1971
The Beverly Hillbillies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies)
Jethro Bodine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hillbillies#Jethro_Bodine)
main role (273 episodes)
TV Land Award for Favorite "Fish Out of Water" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Land_Award) (2004)

1967
A Time for Killing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_for_Killing)
Sergeant Luther Liskell

1967
Dream Girl of '67
Himself (Bachelor Judge)
series regular (10 episodes)

1968
Hollywood Squares (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Squares)
Himself (Panelist)
recurring role (5 episodes)

1971
The Birdmen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birdmen)
Tanker
Television Movie

1972
Two for the Money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_for_the_Money_(1972_film))
—
Producer

1972–1973
Love, American Style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love,_American_Style)
Rocky / Jackie Lee Rhodes
2 episodes
— "Love and the Fullback" (1972)
— "Love and the Games People Play" (1973)

1974
Macon County Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macon_County_Line)
Deputy Reed Morgan
also Producer/Writer

1975
The Wild McCullochs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_McCullochs)
Culver Robinson
also Director/Producer/Writer

1976
Ode to Billy Joe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ode_to_Billy_Joe_(film))
—
Director/Producer

1979
Fantasy Island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island)
Big Jake Farley
Episode: "Nobody's There/The Dancer"

1979
Hometown U.S.A.
—
Director

1980
The Asphalt Cowboy
Max Caulpepper
Television Movie

1982
The Circle Family
Hearst Circle
Television Movie

1984
Matt Houston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Houston)
Andy MacKay
2 episodes
— "Return to Nam: Part 1"
— "Escape from Nam: Part 2"

1989
Murder, She Wrote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder,_She_Wrote)
Johnny Wheeler
Episode: "Jack and Bill"

1991
State Trooper Boone Willoughby
Episode: "Who Killed J.B. Fletcher?"

2005
Biography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biography_(TV_program))
Himself (Interviewee)

</tbody>

Stoker boy

10-09-2022, 10:01 PM

Excellent Mr. copy paste CUDA, you almost got on an episode of fantasy Island. The difference between Max Baer Junior and you is, he is acting and you, well…………

CUDA

10-10-2022, 03:27 AM

Stoker boy

pay attention ...

https://youtu.be/Xxz0W4OgG9k

Stoker boy

10-10-2022, 09:22 AM

Thank you for that fine forensic analysis Mr. CUDA. Now I’ll throw you a few bones. Were dinosaurs still around in Noah’s time? Doesn’t the bible say no man knows the day or hour for the return of Jesus.

If you would have studied your Bible in Catholic school you would be able to pick out a fraud. It’s easy to see Mr. Tyson has never read the Bible. I do hear from people like you that the Bible is a fairytale, the Bible contradicts itself. When I offer to investigate with them a little further they always decline I wonder why that is?

pcrussell50

10-10-2022, 01:04 PM

Stoker boy

10-10-2022, 01:19 PM

In my humble opinion if the battery technology is so great it would not be forced on the people.
I would think it would sell itself and people would be coming in droves to purchase the new technology.

David - WI

10-10-2022, 02:15 PM

Yes, without subsidies, tax rebates, and artificial carbon credits to make it barely affordable for upper middle class car buyers.

pcrussell50

10-10-2022, 03:03 PM

Yes, without subsidies, tax rebates, and artificial carbon credits to make it barely affordable for upper middle class car buyers.

i fly in an out of SoCal and LAX to and from Hawaii a lot. And I can tell you that there are HUGE numbers of people in the areas under the flight path living in one room apartments with street parking only, working service industry jobs with no charging stations at work, driving old 90’s era cars, with zero hope of having either the money or the infrastructure to enjoy the rich man”s BEV lifestyle.

-Peter

Stoker boy

10-10-2022, 03:21 PM

i fly in an out of SoCal and LAX to and from Hawaii a lot. And I can tell you that there are HUGE numbers of people in the areas under the flight path living in one room apartments with street parking only, working service industry jobs with no charging stations at work, driving old 90’s era cars, with zero hope of having either the money or the infrastructure to enjoy the rich man”s BEV lifestyle.

-Peter

In Los Angeles you’ve probably talking about where the illegals are living. Some of those rich people you are speaking of actually at one time did live in those one bedroom apartments and struggle to better their life. If they choose to stay in those apartments and they’re happy good for them, if they’re not happy then they need to make a change.

Stoker boy

10-10-2022, 03:54 PM

Yes, without subsidies, tax rebates, and artificial carbon credits to make it barely affordable for upper middle class car buyers.

If the cost becomes prohibitive I guess many people will be riding bicycles and electric scooters.

CUDA

10-10-2022, 04:00 PM

<header class="article-header" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; background: transparent; padding: 20px; position: absolute; top: 0px; right: 0px; height: 455.344px; flex-direction: row; align-items: center; width: 490px;">

</header>

Yes, for the entire ongoing 30 year run of lithium ion there is "always something new" just around the corner that will improve upon the cost, weight, and low capacity problem, (the towing problem, as per the guy from Illinois, with the Tesla and the dual Merc catamaran).

I got on this ride back in 2008 following along with the very first Tesla (the Lotus Elise one). Actually, I had one of the first lithium ion laptops back in 2003. Nothing has changed in terms of battery chemistry. Nothing. Tesla has come up with some artful ways of making bigger heavier battery packs and keeping them from turning into fire bombs any worse than they already are. But that is not any improvement in lithium ion. That is just better cooling systems and cell monitoring. Until that "always something new" thing that has been just around the corner for the last 30 years comes along, there will be no solution to "the towing problem*"

The only thing new that is happening is that innovative companies are finding ways of making products that make use of the 30 year old battery technology that we have not been able to improve upon. The surging popularity of battery mopeds comes to mind here.

TL;DR:
the newer people are to this bandwagon, the more they think it's new tech, and the more pie-eyed dreamers they are that the tech is evolving. The battery problems are not evolving and remain unchanged. Until that changes, "the towing problem"* will remain. The products that use the batteries are what are evolving. But that can't and won't solve "the towing problem". The towing problem comes from the low energy storage of the latest batteries, not the fact that you can use batteries to power a moped for a little while.

*the towing problem is why we don't see battery operated planing hull boats and high speed, long range air transport

-Peter<header class="article-header" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; padding: 20px; position: absolute; top: 0px; right: 0px; height: 455.344px; flex-direction: row; align-items: center; width: 490px;"></header>

Solid State

Solid-state NASA battery beats the Model Y's 4680 pack at energy density by stacking all cells in one case

<figure class="news-teaser-image" style="float: right; padding-left: 0.8em; padding-bottom: 0.8em; text-align: center; width: 245px; margin: 0px;"><source srcset="fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_2447cde9c0.jpg 1x, fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_d041264e46.jpg 2x">https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/3/0/csm_sabers_2_2447cde9c0.jpg (https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc3/sabers_2.jpg)<figcaption class="csc-textpic-caption" style="font-style: italic; text-align: left; caption-side: bottom; display: inline;">Solid-state batteries can one day power planes (image: NASA)</figcaption></figure>NASA has achieved a breakthrough in its solid-state battery research aimed at electricity-powered transportation. NASA's solid-state battery stacks all of its cells in one casing, reducing weight and increasing the energy density twice compared to that of Li-ion batteries in the typical electric car.
<aside class="nbc-right-float nbc-right-float-hide" style="color: rgb(42, 42, 42); background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);"><aside class="introa_whole" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 0.89em; overflow: hidden; position: relative;"><article>

</article></aside></aside>NASA's Solid-state Architecture Batteries for Enhanced Rechargeability and Safety (SABERS) project has reached a research milestone, announced the agency. After a few years of experiments and university partnerships, NASA's solid-state battery has hit the whopping 500 Wh/kg energy density, double that of the typical electric car, allowing it to propel electric planes even.
In fact, NASA has been doing the solid-state battery research precisely as part of its Convergent Aeronautics Solutions project for sustainable aviation. In the process, NASA managed to discover a novel packing method for solid-state cells that reduces the battery weight by 30-40% and doubles its energy density compared to the current liquid Li-ion batteries in most electric cars. For comparison, Tesla's 4680 batteries in the Model Y (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-able-to-slash-the-Model-Y-price-significantly-with-4680-battery-pack-cost-savings.647715.0.html) boast sub-300 Wh/kg energy density, while CATL's upcoming M3P phosphate packs for the standard range Model Y (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-Model-Y-first-in-line-for-CATL-s-superior-M3P-phosphate-battery-with-longer-range.638725.0.html) are rated at 160 Wh/kg.
SABERS’s battery eschews individual packaging and stacks all solid-state cells on top of one another within one single case. Not only is this design much lighter and energy-dense than current EV batteries, but it also exhibits the inherent endurance of solid-state packs. NASA's tests of the new solid-state battery found that it can withstand temperatures twice higher than what current Li-ion batteries in electric vehicles are able to endure before bursting into flames.
This makes it suitable for use on planes and the NASA team is testing its solid-state battery for continued performance at even higher pressures and temperatures. Improved battery safety is a very important advantage of the solid-state technology as the recent Hurricane Ian devastation demonstrated. After all, putting out Teslas which caught on fire (https://www.notebookcheck.net/Water-damaged-EV-batteries-turn-Tesla-Model-X-and-other-electric-cars-in-Florida-into-fire-hazards.660368.0.html) during the floods, and whose flaming battery packs couldn't be easily extinguished, turned out to be a major new headache for the disaster recovery crews.