Four Stroke Mercury's how long before rebuilding?

[Brad Zastrow]

Wondering how many hours before rebuilding on the new 300R, 400R or 450R? Having been disgusted in the past with the 2.5 racing series blowing up and rebuilds at 100 hours. I am really happy with my 300X engines as they appear to run about 1000 hours from what I can find out. What does everyone expect or witnessed with the new Mercury four strokes? Any idea on cost to rebuild?

[Lake rat Skater]

Inline 6 verados seem to be able to go 2000 hrs with proper maintenance, many go way over that. I would expect the 300R to easily go 2000 Hrs. I also love and respect the 300X but I think all three new four strokes you mentioned will last at least twice as long before rebuilds. Now once it is time to rebuild the four stoke I don't know exact cost but it would have to cost a lot more than a 2 stroke rebuild.

[XstreamVking]

Rebuild? You just buy another one and keep on boating.....

[Noah Burns]

I have a cousin that retired a couple years ago and bought a center console with a 250 four stroke on it, he fishes literally every day unless they're on vacation. He's well over 1000 hours and not a problem one.

[22VelocityProMax300]

Wondering how many hours before rebuilding on the new 300R, 400R or 450R? Having been disgusted in the past with the 2.5 racing series blowing up and rebuilds at 100 hours. I am really happy with my 300X engines as they appear to run about 1000 hours from what I can find out. What does everyone expect or witnessed with the new Mercury four strokes? Any idea on cost to rebuild?
Brad, I have a nephew over in New Jersey that has a 150 mercury 4 stroke on a Boston whaler, he has been putting on a lot of hours on his motor, rather than a re-build it’s electrical demons that he has to work through. He loves the motor otherwise. Frank

[Z06man]

I have put a set of 300 L-6 WITH 2000 hours from marine patrol serviced every 100 hours . He is now over 3000 with them.Just mait.

[Chaz]

They can't even deliver new motors to dealers. You really don't expect them to have any parts available to a guy who walks in and tries to order parts over the counter .. :rolleyes:

But lats say for a moment that they did have a genuine interest in selling parts to their consumers.

So if they command $398.00 for a small hand full of O-rings for a Pro/Max intake. (BTW- I forgive you for not getting back to me on how you .. well you know) :smiletest:

What do you think the leaches would want for a simple set of piston rings ...:eek:

Maybe a gasket set .. :eek:

New rod bolts ... :eek:

Valve springs ... :eek:

That's if it ain't hurt ... just weak .. ;)

[JBS]

Rebuild? You just buy another one and keep on boating.....

Yep,do this.
I heard that some law enforcement boats in South Florida have several thousand hours on their V rods without any issues.

[Speed Jr.]

Get your order in now Brad. Do the rigging next winter when they come in. They are at halt right now due to prop shaft supply issues. :rolleyes:

Jr.

[mikesufka]

Brad -

You gonna hang a pair of 450's on the Talon ?

MDS

[FUJIMO]

...highr any mota spins, more often it gitz rebilt. 2.5 race vs diesel...

[Brad Zastrow]

There are cars that spin 8000 rpm that do not need rebuilding every 100 hours. Motorcycles that spin 12k plus that run for a long time. I have blown at least eight 2.5 racing motors that were not drags, just 260's and 280's. I love the 300x but might be tempted to go with the new engines.

[Brad Zastrow]

[QUOTE=Chaz;3326908]
So if they command $398.00 for a small hand full of O-rings for a Pro/Max intake. (BTW- I forgive you for not getting back to me on how you .. well you know) :smiletest:

I have no clue as to what you are saying here. You forgive me for what?

[FUJIMO]

There are cars that spin 8000 rpm that do not need rebuilding every 100 hours. Motorcycles that spin 12k plus that run for a long time. I have blown at least eight 2.5 racing motors that were not drags, just 260's and 280's. I love the 300x but might be tempted to go with the new engines.
...brad, all these years later, i still see & hear what a 2.4/2.5 center engine on an offshore race cat goes through @ wot...lol. most people would not believe it. its amazing that they even last an hour...;)...

[Speed Jr.]

With what some people are willing to pay for used 300x and 300xs motors, why not upgrade to new stuff....There's a reason why there is an uptick of people who are upgrading. Lock it in now cause they aren't getting any cheaper and the value of the dollar isn't getting stronger. Twin 450s or Triple 300Rs would be slick Brad.

[David]

2000 hours would be the rest of my boating life,so if the rebuild was stupid expensive it would be on the next owner.

But I am hoping my two strokes outlive me

[JBS]

2000 hours would be the rest of my boating life,so if the rebuild was stupid expensive it would be on the next owner.

But I am hoping my two strokes outlive me

I'm with you!

[Wayne Cammidge]

Mercury warranties the Sea Pro range to commercial users for 2000 hrs or 2 yrs, at least here they do.
So they must be expecting well over that.
There was a 50 4 stroke a good few years ago that ran over 10 000 hrs on the Okavango delta

[John S]

There are cars that spin 8000 rpm that do not need rebuilding every 100 hours. Motorcycles that spin 12k plus that run for a long time. I have blown at least eight 2.5 racing motors that were not drags, just 260's and 280's. I love the 300x but might be tempted to go with the new engines.

You have to account for the fact that the naysayers of these engines will on one hand tell you how unreliable they are, then say that they're based off of 20 year old auto tech... Which seems to be pretty damned reliable. The more applicable question may be service (ie, valve adjustment, etc) moreso than rebuild. These motors are pretty badass.

[Michael J Giesler]

There are cars that spin 8000 rpm that do not need rebuilding every 100 hours. Motorcycles that spin 12k plus that run for a long time. I have blown at least eight 2.5 racing motors that were not drags, just 260's and 280's. I love the 300x but might be tempted to go with the new engines.

Brad you also have to realize that the crap oil that was sold to you and the fact the fiberglass crap from you fuel tank going into your 2.5's had alot to do will it look at my 2001 2.5 280 over 375 hours still Virgin it will be rebuilt this year but still going look at Fast John Lentzkow his 28' skater has 1998 280's race version with 300 hours both are finally getting rebuilt and when he took me for a ride 2 years ago he was wot for a very long stretch on the Mississippi between 15-20 miles we still hit 115 not bad and some old paid for obsolete motors it is all how you care of things and if it was built on a Wednesday lol I went for a ride early last summer a Triton bass boat had a new 300R on it the lower end torque was stronger than his 250xs mid was about the same the new 300r had 5 miles per hour more top end he said gas was very close but when I saw him in the fall he had a new 250 xs back on it I asked him why go back 2 prop shaft failures in under 150 hours mercury covered one not the second and he lost both props that cost him alot of money his propshaft was on a ridiculous backorder date so he sold the 300r for more than what he paid for it as is and found a brand new 250xs if I were you try it Brad you can Afford it see if they are better 🤷*♂️ if not bolt your 300x back on

[Brad Zastrow]

The new 300R and 450r come with new design one-piece propshaft. Supposed to cure the failures.

[mikesufka]

The new 300R and 450r come with new design one-piece propshaft. Supposed to cure the failures.

R you kicking around triple 300R’s or twin 450’s ?

MDS

[Pulse186]

With what some people are willing to pay for used 300x and 300xs motors, why not upgrade to new stuff....There's a reason why there is an uptick of people who are upgrading. Lock it in now cause they aren't getting any cheaper and the value of the dollar isn't getting stronger. Twin 450s or Triple 300Rs would be slick Brad.


A 300R is what, 36k if you can find one? (and they aren't getting any cheaper)

A 300X or 300XS is 10k to 15k?

I bought 300XS for my Progression because the "upgrade" to a 4 stroke is a bit ridiculous.

[Speed Jr.]

A 300R is what, 36k if you can find one? (and they aren't getting any cheaper)

A 300X or 300XS is 10k to 15k?

I bought 300XS for my Progression because the "upgrade" to a 4 stroke is a bit ridiculous.

Well **** if I was buying a brand new boat I for sure would want the newest technology available for 15k more. They are 25-32k depending on the versions or who you buy from. It's worth the wait. My dad waited for 10 months for his, im still waiting on mine. I plan on doing a lot of boating. I boated over 200hrs last year, hopefully more this year. $ per hour over the next 5 years, the price difference is nothing. I got rid of my 10 year old technology old school motors. I like new tech, new data systems, cleaner rigging options, more torque, speed, oh and a warranty. Brad is a smart guy, hes been in other cats with the new V8s on them. It's only a matter time before he upgrades.

Jr.

[Chaz]

[QUOTE=Chaz;3326908]
So if they command $398.00 for a small hand full of O-rings for a Pro/Max intake. (BTW- I forgive you for not getting back to me on how you .. well you know) :smiletest:

I have no clue as to what you are saying here. You forgive me for what?

I thought two things :

#1) That you had older "twin pancake" Pro/Max powerheads.

#2) That you were going to get back to me about why it's better to use Merc O-rings to refurbish the laser type injection @ $390.00 a copy ($1170.00) instead of spending $10.00 @ Palm City hydraulics ... for the same thing.
I even sent you a few groupies to help .. nuttin but crickets :smiletest:

I "axed" back on the first page about part numbers, prices and availability for the "porky's" .. more crickets. Hope no one needs to fix one if that's how it is .. :rolleyes:

So they had a guy (many) that has broken a prop shaft, they replaced it with another bad one that also broke. Now they came up with a fix .. and they won't fix the guys motors that they put another bad one in. Or even getting around to having enough in stock to "sell" those guys one. Sweet deal :o
Price and part # on one of those ... anyone :nonod:

Those NIC 2.5's were race only motors. Merc offered no replacement sleeves for those motors .. Must have been throw away blocks in their eyes .. and anyone that used them to joy ride needed to have some on the boat, some in the garage and a few @ U.S.Chrome.

Lets round it off to 330 HP for a good, 2.5L, 300x and a 4.6L porkchop.

2.5 = 132 HP / liter .. "mini-brute".

300x = 110 HP / liter .. 100 per liter is considered average, so a touch above.

Porky = 71 HP / liter ... Comatose, but for those that wanna taxi-cab, great fit.

Ray Charles can see that an uninterrupted bore will last longer than one with a bunch of holes in it. That's just common sense.

2.5L has a 2.300" wide exhaust port ..

https://i.imgur.com/4KiiJSXl.jpg

3.0L is only .030" wider @ ..

https://i.imgur.com/Yl8bSJ2l.jpg

Which is gonna be harder on rings ...???? :smiletest:

If it's worth $30,000.00+ to get a new motor with a (as proven) marginal warranty, be one of the cool kids :rolleyes: be whisper quiet :cool: be above having to smell Klotz oil :o then maybe buying three porky's might be the thing for you .. :cheers:

Chaz = rememberin , when you could buy a house for $90,000.00 ;)

[Brad Zastrow]

Those so called 4.6L porkys as you call them weigh only few pounds more than a 300X with 40% more torque use 87 octane and better fuel economy. The world moves forward. I love the 300X but I am very impressed with 4.6L Mercs. So are many of the boat manufacturers. Almost all new boats sales under 35' are with outboards now. That is why the demand has outstripped supply. Add in supply chain shortages (every industry) makes for a perfect storm.

You forgot to do the math on the 400R, 2.6 Liter 400HP 153hp per liter. The 4.6 450hp is seriously detuned and has been tested at much, much higher hp. I assume the lower unit is what is holding them back from releasing a big fire breathing monster.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Wondering how many hours before rebuilding on the new 300R, 400R or 450R? Having been disgusted in the past with the 2.5 racing series blowing up and rebuilds at 100 hours. I am really happy with my 300X engines as they appear to run about 1000 hours from what I can find out. What does everyone expect or witnessed with the new Mercury four strokes? Any idea on cost to rebuild?

Isn't that why they call them racing motors? So are you REALLY racing them or just running them until their tongues are hanging out?

LOL!!! You talked about cars and their high RPMs.. So how long do they stay at peak RPM? Like in a boat? :rolleyes:

I love the Merc 2.5 "race" motors. I have seen 280s live well longer than I expected.

Go buy some new 4 strokes and let us know.

[Speed Jr.]

Lots of haters on here Brad. The "nothing will ever be better than the 2.5 crowd" always chimes in on on big block or new stuff. I live down the road from a drag strip. This is kinda like the guy in the Dodge Neon who ****s on the guy with the Dodge Viper. The "well his engine is 2x 3x bigger" arguement. Lol. Everyone knows the 2.5 is a poor option for big heavy boats. Brad had triple 280s on his rig. What a pain. Went to 3L' s, they were better. The 4.6L will be much better as they have on ALL the big cats. The expectations of longevity is much higher today than it was 25 years ago. It just bothers some people that others get with the times. There is a reason why there were no 120-130+ mph 6 seater 32-42ft cats cruising around with plush interior and sound systems bumping back then. They didn't have the motors to do it. Just funny the Neon guys would all have Vipers.....if they could afford them. Let's just be honest here......Sounds like 2000+ hours BZ.

Now the haters in can continue.....

Jr.

[Double Rigged]

Brad, having made the switch I can tell you after running and loving the 300x motors I had in the end going with the 400r’s was worth it. I miss the sound of the 2 strokes along with the acceleration but in the end picked up a solid 8-10mph running with a load and fuel mileage is much better with the 400r’s. I averaged 1.5mpg with a best of about 1.75mpg at WOT with the 300x. 400r’s are 2.25mpg with a best of 2.5-2.75mpg or so.
I do not miss the smoke and cost of 2 stroke oil. I personally have not heard of many broken shafts with 300r’s however there has been more failures with the 400r’s and for the 450’s. Most guys today running tunes on the 400’s making 465-485hp. That IMO is what is causing failures along with someone not throttling the boat and just letting it bang the limiter. In todays time all parts are scarce and hard to get. Mercury is no exception. The one piece shafts have broken some as well but not as often. I agree with Chaz and would not even consider the 300r’s. They will be slower and the torque is only better at low RPM. A properly set 300x will out run them for sure. My old set up was 4-5mph faster on top end than other 308’s that have 300r’s. The 300r’s were faster the 300xs’s though. The best motors for the money IMO are the 400r’s. They don’t break, turn a lot of RPM and with a tune can be as fast as the 450’s. But lastly prices on any of the 4 strokes have gotten ridiculous along with the price of new boats! Just some food for thought

[Pulse186]

But lastly prices on any of the 4 strokes have gotten ridiculous along with the price of new boats! Just some food for thought


But haven't you heard? we all have to get with the times. Silly me that I didn't know I could afford a $35,000 motor, here I am sticking to a budget and buying a crappy old 2 stroke like some backwater hick.


That was a joke. There is nothing the matter with any of these motors, would love to have a 300R but my bank account told me no.

[river rocket]

They nailed the 300R, it is an absolute power house. The only thing I miss about a 300x and my 2.5's is the sound, but the 300R sure sounds good on a cold start. Maybe not the 300X crackle, but still good. What is even better about the sound is it just makes noise when the key is turned and then it is quiet after a few minutes. Which is so awesome to be able to idle around and not have to talk over my motor. Man I'm getting old..... I went back to a premix 2.4 BP this last season while I waited for my boat to be built and my new motor to show up and man I couldn't wait to get rid of that old stuff. I just want to turn the key and go fast.

The 300R was such a fun motor to own. Reliable, low maintenance, turn key power. I absolutely punished mine. I had just short of 300 hours on it and virtually every morning I was out doing hard acceleration runs on it right up to the limiter. Pass after pass after pass. We did tons of testing with it for Fastbass Marine and Allison. Something that I was super impressed with was how consistent it was. When prop testing with a data logger it would log pass after pass with no changes. Unlike the 300XS, I could only make 1-2 passes before it would fall off and start slowing down. I could test 5 to 6 props making 3-4 passes each and make real comparisons without having to worry about the motor being the change.

I never had an issue with the motor in the couple of years I had it. I can't wait to hang my 450. Spring can't come soon enough.

[Chaz]

Larry .. how quick + fast have you been down your local drag strip with your viper ???

My Neon has been 4.17 @ 175 1/8th, 6.60 / 209.89 quarter.

1994 , 1997 , 1999 , 2005 , 2007 Moroso Motorsports Park Q-16 Track Champion.

Bunch of other stuff ... If I listed, you would once again mistake my realism for hate or boasting .. :rolleyes:

I do congratulate you on 2012 boat of the month .. awesome :thumbsup:

====================================================

Yes, I have to agree that the plandemic and the mishandling of everything from a loaf of bread in the store to our health care system is sliding off the ledge.
However, the bowling ball has exercised their ways .. long before we started blundering buck butter. Even more so since OMC is not there to keep them at least somewhat honest.

So, you want a new set off 300 pork chops. Don't waste you time going to your local dealer thats been there since you were a kid. The truck drives right by them to drop off motors at the boat builders doors. Maybe they will turn a couple loose .. but your gonna pay for em. Afterall, they are not a dealer, what do they care if you call and complain about what they want for a couple motors .. :rolleyes:

Can't buy anything but four strokes .. so it's pretty lame even mentioning new boats ~ old motors .. etc.
If I bought a boat that was creeping up on a million dollars, I would hope there was somewhere i could get in out of the rain .. sleeps 6 , ****'s a minimum of 12 .. comfortably .. :cheers:
From what I have noticed, people on this site are not millionaires. The couple that truly are .. don't act like it. They seem to be more sensible. I'm sure there is a market for 50' cats that need a half a dozen foe~fiddy porky's handin off the back. You know the kind of boat where you need side lift trailer and a permit from the DOT , along with a three man crew to launch it . I already gotz a job , I don't even entertain the thought of another one.

I didnt mention "manifold pressure models" .. I've ran enough blown alky cars to know what 5 more psi of boost is worth. And I know what it's like to drive over the crank too .. :eek:

40 ft/lbs more torque ... OhhhKayyyyyyy

Well it is 35% larger .... :p

A stock 300x makes 240 ft/lbs @ 3000 = 137 HP

"+40" 336 ft/lbs @ 3000 = 191 HP

300x 317 ft/lbs @ 4500 = 271 HP

"+40" 443 ft/lbs @ 4500 = 380 HP

300x 267 ft/lbs @ 6400 = 325 HP

"+40" 374 ft/lbs @ 6400 = 455 HP

Chaz = thinkin, some geek at the advertizing dept put it a brochure .. cuz thats what 40 ft/lbs across the sweep would really look like .. ;)


https://i.imgur.com/gnfTnjcl.jpg

[mr fun]

what he said :iagree: :cheers:

[Chaz]

Going back to the spirit of the original question ...

Standard ring set

Gasket set

32 valve springs

16 exhaust valves

Part numbers , price and availability .. Is that really too much to ask .. :rolleyes:

[John S]

Going back to the spirit of the original question ... Is that really too much to ask ..

No. And in all your condescending blabbering, you haven't answered the OP's.:rolleyes:

[Brad Zastrow]

I do like the 400R and love the 450R. My problem is I do not think two 400R would work very well on my 36' Talon. Three is too heavy as I am fighting a balance problem. My gas tanks are too far back in the boat. Big deal to move those. The 400R and the 450R are heavy engines. I currently have a ballast tank in the front that I never needed to use with triple 280's. The 300X changed that. In rough water (Ozarks) I use the tank to keep the boat level running in really sloppy water at 90 MPH. Twin 450's would be the goal but that involves a total re-rig in shifter, throttles, gauges, remove center bracket and remove the center pod that protects the center engine. The 450R at $55k each is another factor. Triple 300R is perfect for the boat. I am pulling the trigger on those. Not expecting big speed increase but look forward to lower cost of fuel, reliability and a 3-year warranty. I know the boat is older but it looks great, handles rough water as good as any new big cat I have been in. Also have a new interior coming using the new Alcantara leather like material used in the new cats. Dropping a few bucks on this boat is far less than buying a new 36 outboard cat for $550,000.
Thank you to everyone who posted, it helped make my decision. Later this year I will be selling three 300X and spare powerhead.

[CUDA]

Can't take It with you, less fuel and problems, 450's:cheers:

[JPEROG]

I currently own 3 450s, 3 300Rs, and 2 300X motors. No way would I consider more X motors. They were the best for a long time but for those of us who actually boat 100 miles or more a week, the two strokes don't make sense. I ran my Skater twice within the last couple weeks ($200 in oil, $1000 in fuel for those two trips). I am at LOTO right now, ran my pontoon yesterday and to a chilly dinner last night. (300R)-quite, able to talk, shifts perfect, no stalls at the docks etc., and incredible performance-I love it.

I ran my 450 cat this morning (130 mph) for 12 miles all while talking at a normal voice to my occupant. Never has this even been a possibility before the new V-8s arrived and we consumed the same fuel as X motors but no oil consumption. If you are running multiples, the 400Rs are a viable option for many set ups but I was never impressed with any in single configuration; other then HydroSkreamin's, and Engineer Mike's eliminators.
.
My sons STV is being rigged with a new 3.4 V-6 (mini chop) this week as well. My thoughts are if you haven't experienced them then you don't know and shouldn't comment. Anyone that thinks a 300R is more money then a 300X was new in 2001-2005 compared to today's dollar value is wrong.

There are several race teams who have purchased 300R motors, (one of them was a die hard 300X fan in the past), but he has too has experienced the new power/torque and made the change.

Joe

[scott reierson]

Hi Brad,

"Dropping a few bucks on this boat is far less than buying a new 36 outboard cat for $550,000."

Yep...and there it is. You couldn't have said it any better, and so it goes,


Fast forward a few years....

When the new aftermarket 500hp lightweight 275lb electric drop on plug and play power heads and batteries become available..., it will be a lot easier for us.

3 Lightweight 150lb batteries. (lighter than gas) 600 volt x 3 power heads = 1800 volt battery system with 8 hour WO run time. Easy 2 box rigging with single harness. One Digital gauge smart phone compatible BT setup, diagnosis and service

That new 1800 Volt plug in charge socket in the old fuel fill hole will look right at home.

Game on for the Vintage electric Talon to dominate the Chain!

I hope to be their with ya.

[mikesufka]

Brad -

Cool project - will be curious to hear your thoughts after the switch. Are 300R’s available right now or is there a wait ?

Joe -

What 450 cat do you have ? I thought you had a 28 Skater ?

MDS

[JPEROG]

Brad -

Cool project - will be curious to hear your thoughts after the switch. Are 300R’s available right now or is there a wait ?

Joe -

What 450 cat do you have ? I thought you had a 28 Skater ?

MDS

I still have the 28 but it will be sold soon. I picked up a 36 Wright/Performance to run this year until my 38 (under construction) is completed along with the anticipated next generation of power being released. There are 300Rs out there but people are getting over retail for them. If ordered today, you should see them in June.

Brads boat with triple R motors will have serious acceleration for a boat weighing what it does-should be a blast to watch at the lake.

Joe

[RiverRat71]

Reading another thread about V8 motors way too heavy for any boat I will own. I appreciate their application & don't doubt their performance but what about yesteryears smaller hi-perf boats? Merc where are you? Anyone? RR

[Michael J Giesler]

If I were you I would just drop 3 300R on the back and try it out I would think it would drive better than 400's and your rig still should do 100 you have been to over 160 with you other boat I don't think the 400r or the big bad 450 are worth it in my opinion

[David]

No more motors for us, RiverRat. That’s why I bought my 200XS while I still could, and a 150 Etec with my brother for our ski boat

The 200XS burns way less fuel then my old 225 Promax. It will pay for itself in fuel savings if I live to be 300, same as replacing a 300X with a 300R

[Double Rigged]

Brad what mid section are you getting on the 300r’s? The newer CMS FYI ways as much as 400r.

[Brad Zastrow]

The one with the wing plate and side ram steering.

[engineermike]

In case anyone was wondering, a brand new set of 32 valvesprings for a new 4.6 v8 is $105, MSRP. A head gasket is $60. Rings for one piston is $66, which is a little steep but I pulled up some OEM automotive ring sets and found a range of $30-$84 so it's right there with them.

Something else worth noting is that the Mercury marketing materials actually say 40% more torque at 2000 rpm, not across the board. I attached the snip. And yes, it is quite possible that one engine has 40% more torque than another at 2000 rpm, but the same power at 6000 rpm. So, there is no evidence Mercury is lying about this.

[Z06man]

The AMS is the heavy mid he is getting Wingplate CMS they list low 500 weight.

[JPEROG]

Reading another thread about V8 motors way too heavy for any boat I will own. I appreciate their application & don't doubt their performance but what about yesteryears smaller hi-perf boats? Merc where are you? Anyone? RR

I had a 300xs on my Allison, a 300X on my STV, and have new motors on my LCBs (they are very close in weight). If you are running anything with less mass then an STV or Allison XB2003 then I agree the new V-8 motors are not the answer but its almost impossible to run anything smaller then that on todays water ways where wake boats, cruisers, and 25' tri-toons are the norm. For guys that still want to run the sub 20' hulls, all we can do is hope the V-6 progress continues to make its way to the market.

Joe

[Chaz]

No. And in all your condescending blabbering, you haven't answered the OP's.:rolleyes:

Asking how long between rebuilds , is like asking me what color shirt your wearing.

Does the owner take advantage of the phenomenal torque at 2000 rpm to impress his friends or is it one (or more) of those "demo" motors that have been whooped on for 200 hrs .. never been registered and brought back for service .. OooHHH Oohhhooooo
Dealers tend to register motors the day they leave their possession .. boat builder types .. not so much .

Did you find that condescending as well .. ???

Sorry bout feelings , but its true .. just like everything else I have said ... ;)

If you really need a baseline to go by ..

I know guys who hang a motor together, put two dyno pulls on it. Pull it apart, messuage the high spots, put it back together , three qualifying shots , four round race .. home and the process starts again.

Will it troll its life in the Gulf stream ???

Weekend warrior .. ???

Drive it like ya stole it .. demo boat .. ???

1000 hours was mentioned .. gotta be as crisp as a wet noodle :rolleyes: But if it still runs .. then OK

Goes for about any motor .. average 60 mph for 1000 hrs = 60,000 miles.
Your maffus skiiLz and results may vary .. :p

Well Mike .. four stroke , cam and compression for 87 octane , 35% bigger .. and all they can claim is 40% more torque @ 2000 rpm than the 7 cylinder ... :o :o :o

Post a link to the part numbers , prices , I can check Mercnet for availability ...:smiletest:

Joe , like the guy in the hot sauce commercial says .. I (they) put that **** on everything .. or does it have to be a Skater or a DW for it to count .. ;)

Some people still consider a 300x as being king .. go to the boat drags, look around, 2.5's are still King. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Unless you flopped to the other side, where freedom of speech no longer counts .. :cool:

Speakin of LOTO .. I noticed that for the last couple years .. the numbers called out from the bluff don't seem to match the sales pitch .. just an observation .. :smiletest:

[engineermike]

Well Mike .. four stroke , cam and compression for 87 octane , 35% bigger .. and all they can claim is 40% more torque @ 2000 rpm than the 7 cylinder ... :o :o :o

300R vs 300XS, by the numbers:

1% more engine weight
44% larger swept volume per revolution
40% more torque at 2000 rpm
5% more peak torque
7% more peak power
93% higher BMEP at 2000 rpm
46% higher BMEP at peak torque
49% higher BMEP at peak power
50% longer factory warranty
4 numbers lower minimum octane required (17% lower fuel cost)
and so on...


Post a link to the part numbers , prices , I can check Mercnet for availability ...

Mercury has made finding part numbers extraordinarily easy. I'm certain you can figure out it.

[Chaz]

You forgot the most important spec. $37,000.00+ msrp + scalper fee's ... ;)

$3.28 cent valve spring .. no wonder you didn't provide a link .. :rolleyes:

Chaz = predicting, toaster mike will start an argument and with-in a half a dozen post's .. whine to Greg .. he's picking on me .. :cool:

[engineermike]

You forgot the most important spec. $37,000.00+ msrp + scalper fee's ... ;)

MSRP is up 13%, no doubt. Like it or not, it's in line with inflation. The end result is a higher quality product for an equivalent inflation-adjusted price. As far as scalper's fee's, we live in a free market economy. No one is forcing anyone to pay those prices. If you want pricing controls, move somewhere Socialist.


$3.28 cent valve spring .. no wonder you didn't provide a link .. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that price is incorrect? Looks like the going rate is actually $2.34, or about $75/set.


Chaz = predicting, toaster mike will start an argument and with-in a half a dozen post's .. whine to Greg .. he's picking on me ..

Can we keep the thread technical? Just PM me the personal attacks so all these other folks who want to talk engines don't have to read the "condescending blabbering". Seriously.

[Double Rigged]

The one with the wing plate and side ram steering.
Yes those are much lighter.

[John S]

They nailed the 300R, it is an absolute power house. The only thing I miss about a 300x and my 2.5's is the sound, but the 300R sure sounds good on a cold start. Maybe not the 300X crackle, but still good. What is even better about the sound is it just makes noise when the key is turned and then it is quiet after a few minutes. Which is so awesome to be able to idle around and not have to talk over my motor. Man I'm getting old..... I went back to a premix 2.4 BP this last season while I waited for my boat to be built and my new motor to show up and man I couldn't wait to get rid of that old stuff. I just want to turn the key and go fast.

The 300R was such a fun motor to own. Reliable, low maintenance, turn key power. I absolutely punished mine. I had just short of 300 hours on it and virtually every morning I was out doing hard acceleration runs on it right up to the limiter. Pass after pass after pass. We did tons of testing with it for Fastbass Marine and Allison. Something that I was super impressed with was how consistent it was. When prop testing with a data logger it would log pass after pass with no changes. Unlike the 300XS, I could only make 1-2 passes before it would fall off and start slowing down. I could test 5 to 6 props making 3-4 passes each and make real comparisons without having to worry about the motor being the change.

I never had an issue with the motor in the couple of years I had it. I can't wait to hang my 450. Spring can't come soon enough.

Have you guys ran the 300R on an xb 2003, or just the xb21? Sounds like your having a helluva good time testing. Hard to catch fish at triple digits. :D

[river rocket]

John, the 300R was on a 2003 in Texas for a bit and some others exist. Fastbass has one that is suppose to get one here sometime this spring or summer when the motor comes in. Like the XB21 and 450R, you have to take the time to see what the boat wants and how it reacts. Several 2003's have run with that weight or similar weight so its more of a gear case learning curve I would imagine.

[Chaz]

MSRP is up 13%, no doubt. Like it or not, it's in line with inflation. The end result is a higher quality product for an equivalent inflation-adjusted price. As far as scalper's fee's, we live in a free market economy. No one is forcing anyone to pay those prices. If you want pricing controls, move somewhere Socialist.

All I did was mention the msrp price. And as per JP's post .. people that have them are asking scalpers prices for them. No need going into how it got to those prices or of business practices of those who hold a hot commodity.
I mentioned .. bring the vig when you go to get it .. How you made the jump to move to a blue state is beyond me .. :rolleyes:
However, there is an economics lesson i can learn from you. Since I doubt you own your own company , posting on company time is stealing .. only scumbags do that kind of thing .. ;)




Are you saying that price is incorrect? Looks like the going rate is actually $2.34, or about $75/set.

Try to stick with me, 4 valve head , 8 cyl motor = 32 springs. You said $105 for a set 105 / 32 = $ 3.28125 each Pretty simple really :)

More importantly is that Mercury finally let their parts dept know that they were building new model engines. Well, according to you anyway. I'd looked maybe a year ago .. no parts breakdown then .. and where I look for jobber prices, no breakdown now either .. :nonod:
I asked for a simple link .. bless your heart .. your still lookin for a bird on the ground ... :p



Can we keep the thread technical? Just PM me the personal attacks so all these other folks who want to talk engines don't have to read the "condescending blabbering". Seriously.

Do you know who Eddie Haskil was, he was a little weasel that tried to look good in front of Mrs. Cleaver . Yet all the while was a low life conniving dog in reality.

You poor thing .. what personal attacks .. Pppfffttttt

A socialist .. LMAO

I can figure it out , it's not too hard ..
I gave you a specific parts list, you failed miserably :cool:

condescending blabbering .. I thought engineers were sposta have an imagination .. come up with your own diatribe .. copy cat

PM you, is gonna save the membership .. (become a supporting member then .. cheap azz)
If you need a pen pal, try the prison system .

Don't know about where you come from, but from here, that stupid stuff don't sound technical , (btw this is the general section) it's stuff that only a little weasel would say. .. :D

[Stoker boy]

It seems today’s trend is everybody likes big tuna boats. To each his own. I still prefer my little light Mirage with a 2.5 drag. They have to be the easiest motor in the world to rebuild. A little bit pricey but so is everything else.

[JPEROG]

"Speakin of LOTO .. I noticed that for the last couple years .. the numbers called out from the bluff don't seem to match the sales pitch .. just an observation .."

Charlie,

I think you better attend the LOTO in person so you don't miss it. There is hundreds of miles of running side by side that takes place all week. Come show everyone how fast they aren't....you can stay at my place or park your motorhome at our barn, either way bring your weapon of choice to the shootout and play for the week. Last year there were several people in our group that ran 1500 miles or more in a 10 day period.

https://lakeoftheozarksshootout.com/2021-results/

Rusty Williams ran 126 in a 36 Doug Wright with porkchops, Taylor Scism ran 122 with porkchops in a 34 MTI, Tony Chiarimonte went 118 with porkchops on a 37 DCB--These passes are now 3/4 of a mile. I ran my boat this morning to 133 with a pair of 5 blade cnc 37s (really impressive to me on 87 octane fuel that I can get anywhere and with a full warranty as well--watched testing of a new playcraft 31' tritoon with twin porkchops run 84 mph this afternoon-- (NEVER before was this possible until the new motors were released).

Joe

[OnPad]

I know I should mind my own buisness, but i can't help myself. Chaz makes a valid point in longevity being related to the way these things are operated. Our local marine patrol uses twin honda 225's, they get thousands of hours idling around. My buddy put one on a bass boat, and it smokes more than my 2 strokes, after only 150hrs. Another neighbor mounted a 150 four stroke Yamaha on his bass boat. It got a replacement powerhead at 50hrs, timing gears failed. I don't wish these scenarios on anyone. But my poor ass is going to hang on to my old junk 2 strokes, for my little boats.
How about that Dodge Neon that's fast!

[JPEROG]

I know I should mind my own buisness, but i can't help myself. Chaz makes a valid point in longevity being related to the way these things are operated. Our local marine patrol uses twin honda 225's, they get thousands of hours idling around. My buddy put one on a bass boat, and it smokes more than my 2 strokes, after only 150hrs. Another neighbor mounted a 150 four stroke Yamaha on his bass boat. It got a replacement powerhead at 50hrs, timing gears failed. I don't wish these scenarios on anyone. But my poor ass is going to hang on to my old junk 2 strokes, for my little boats.
How about that Dodge Neon that's fast!

I can only speak from my personal experience. 2 of the 450s have 300 hours with nothing done to them other then 50 hour oil changes (merc. recommends 100 hour intervals), one of my 300R motors has 384 hours and it is either at idle or 6200 rpm on my tri-toon with nothing done other then 50 hour oil changes. My "luck" or experience has been great so far.

Joe

[engineermike]

All I did was mention the msrp price. And as per JP's post .. people that have them are asking scalpers prices for them. No need going into how it got to those prices or of business practices of those who hold a hot commodity.
I mentioned .. bring the vig when you go to get it .. How you made the jump to move to a blue state is beyond me ..

You were whining about the price of the superior products and accusing dealers of scalping. If you believe in free market economics, then you wouldn't have a problem with either. It's simple, just don't buy it if you don't think it's worth it. Free market economy determines the price; otherwise it's Socialism or worse. It's not a big leap of logic.


However, there is an economics lesson i can learn from you. Since I doubt you own your own company , posting on company time is stealing .. only scumbags do that kind of thing .. ;)

So now you know what my compensation structure and working hours are? It's a little creepy that you're trying to get so far into my personal business. But you've been wrong about me many times in the past. It seems like you'd get tired of being wrong. Maybe you're just accustomed to it?


Try to stick with me, 4 valve head , 8 cyl motor = 32 springs. You said $105 for a set 105 / 32 = $ 3.28125 each Pretty simple really

Actually I started with the $3.30 MSRP of the valvespring and multiplied by 32, so you just back-calculated what I did. That's not the point though. In post #52 you seemed to have a problem with the $3.28 number, so I asked if you thought it was incorrect. A simple yes or no would have sufficed. Really, that's not the point either. The point is that you were hoping to show the world how ridiculous Mercury parts prices are on the modern engines. The $3.30 ($2.34 going rate) didn't fit your narrative so now you're acting like there's some other issue in calculating the total cost of a set of valvesprings.


I asked for a simple link .. bless your heart .. your still lookin for a bird on the ground ... :p I gave you a specific parts list, you failed miserably :cool:

No one is giving you a link because there's only 3 reasons you could want someone else to post a link here to something that's so easy to find on your own: 1) you're too lazy to find it yourself, 2) you don't know how to find it yourself, or 3) you're playing some sort of game to try to get one of "us" to make a point for you. I tend to think it's the 3rd, but it doesn't matter because I care not to play into any of the three. Plus, I've already shown the parts pricing is in line with the market.


Do you know who Eddie Haskil was, he was a little weasel that tried to look good in front of Mrs. Cleaver . Yet all the while was a low life conniving dog in reality.

You poor thing .. what personal attacks .. Pppfffttttt

stuff that only a little weasel would say. ..

Insult insult insult. I know your modus operandi is to start hurling insults when you're wrong about technical issues. I've seen you do it countless times before. I won't sink to your level, though. This is precisely the type of garbage I was intending to save the thread from by asking you to take this off-line. But I know you want an audience, even if no one in this thread wants to read this crap.

I seem to recall you saying that if you were wrong about something then you'd humbly own up to it. Well, in post 32, you were dead wrong about the torque curve plus you wrongfully accused Mercury of dishonesty. So let's hear it. I'll be waiting.

Furthermore, you've crapped all over basically every 4-stroke thread in this forum for the last several years. Do your 2-strokes even run? How many years has it been since they blew up?


condescending blabbering .. I thought engineers were sposta have an imagination .. come up with your own diatribe .. copy cat

Why would I try to improve on what <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@John S (https://www.screamandfly.com/member.php?u=17585)<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> had already perfectly labelled? I think you might have a basic misunderstanding of what engineers do and how engineering works.

[Chaz]

Mikey boy ... you need to find a girlfriend ;)

[Chaz]

"Speakin of LOTO .. I noticed that for the last couple years .. the numbers called out from the bluff don't seem to match the sales pitch .. just an observation .."

Charlie,

I think you better attend the LOTO in person so you don't miss it. There is hundreds of miles of running side by side that takes place all week. Come show everyone how fast they aren't....you can stay at my place or park your motorhome at our barn, either way bring your weapon of choice to the shootout and play for the week. Last year there were several people in our group that ran 1500 miles or more in a 10 day period.

https://lakeoftheozarksshootout.com/2021-results/

Rusty Williams ran 126 in a 36 Doug Wright with porkchops, Taylor Scism ran 122 with porkchops in a 34 MTI, Tony Chiarimonte went 118 with porkchops on a 37 DCB--These passes are now 3/4 of a mile. I ran my boat this morning to 133 with a pair of 5 blade cnc 37s (really impressive to me on 87 octane fuel that I can get anywhere and with a full warranty as well--watched testing of a new playcraft 31' tritoon with twin porkchops run 84 mph this afternoon-- NEVER before was this possible until the new motors were released).

Joe

Thanks for the offer JP .. it is the same one you made to me nearly 10 years ago. I'm glad to see I'm still in good standings .. :)
I got out of 200 mph cars nearly 15 years ago, to get into something safe .. like an open cockpit 100 mph cat .. :rolleyes:
Going to a long x narrow lake with a 25' boat to chase down 40' foot boats tells me I would be better off going the week before or the one after if i wanted to run wide open. Much like how only the 50' Geico boat went out on Saturday of the Cocoa Beach race. ;)

Of course you posted speeds of what the 450's ran. 126 is pretty impressive until you think .. Hummm .. TK went 122 in a 90's model 24' with 300x motors, for a half a million dollars less. This thread is about the 300r , and I think I specifically asked what they ran the last two years of the event. :o

When the 3.0L came out in 1995 , I didn't weld a single one of them back together, put sleeves in what was once carnage and put it back in service. Twenty seven years later, different story.

The shrimheads have been out for a while .. go thru a high service volume dealer (not a hull mfg) and see how many of them they have in different arrays of .. in pieces.

What Pro/Pad said is the beginning of the end of a four stroke .. they don't call it death smoke for nuttin. Valve guides get sloppy, not long after one of the heads break off .. done.

Standing on the soapbox and proclaiming how reliable the porkchops are, is a bit premature. A decade from now .. you can say, I told ya so ... :cheers:

[JPEROG]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

[mr fun]

Yea , but who do the chicks think is hot, :rolleyes: that's what counts in the end :cool: Fun Out

[RiverRat71]

Joe I love you man but some of us couldn't spend on a rig what one 450R cost. So what about us little guys that want to re-power an older 20' or less? 150-175hp only at best? Come on man. Somebody can do better than that. That's all I'm saying. RR

[Stoker boy]

The new stuff is definitely fast as long as you don’t mind riding through a few ZIP Codes to get there.

[JPEROG]

Joe I love you man but some of us couldn't spend on a rig what one 450R cost. So what about us little guys that want to re-power an older 20' or less? 150-175hp only at best? Come on man. Somebody can do better than that. That's all I'm saying. RR

My son just bought a new 3.4 for his STV. We will see how it performs. I think he paid just shy of 13K for it thru a dealer promotion of some sort. There should be many other V-6 options heading our way from the what the rumor chain says.

Joe

[RiverRat71]

My son just bought a new 3.4 for his STV. We will see how it performs. I think he paid just shy of 13K for it thru a dealer promotion of some sort. There should be many other V-6 options heading our way from the what the rumor chain says.

Joe
I hope so. I'm an Alli guy & plan on rigging another GS & an 02 at some point in the near future. Would like to think there will be options on a newer engine of some sort. RR

[Chaz]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

So I take it I am correct that the 300r didn't set the water on fire over the last couple of years since the response goes straight to half million dollar + boats wiff fo fiddys. You can always call or text me , if the answer goes against the narrative :)

Fast for cheap you say .. what's a 450 , $65,000.00 a copy = $130,000.00 plus.

I'm doing a set of 300x motor's for a guy right now. Parts for each from Pro / $1186.00 + $25.00 shipping . A sleeve from Advanced $123.00 and if he pops for a 3.2 crank add $2100.00 each. So for roughly $3500.00 in parts .. I can put together a pretty stout powerhead that is only a tick slower than a supercharged 4.6L .

It's no wonder that AMA Supercross rules allow for only a 125 cc two stroke bike in the 250 class .. and a 250 cc bike in the 450 class.

Thanks again for offering to let me sleep at the barn .. :D

[Chaz]

PS

Didn't T.K. go 121 in the 28' on the short course .. ???

[Brad Zastrow]

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

[2thelake]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

Yes,

Plenty of spots to play for smaller boats… Would not recommend doing the shootout poker run in a small boat for the regular boater. Would do it again with only a friend in the 24skater since the rear seat can be rough for the passengers. Highly recommend going during the week. My xs motors did well and completed the entire run, was more concerned about changing the oil in my sportys then the actual blocks. People did look at me funny at the gas dock when I had a ratio-rite cup in my had mixing my fuel tanks to 150:1 though :confused:

mark

[Chaz]

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

The reason I use the LOTO numbers is it's hard to get the guy on the hill to lie .. ;)
Going by someone's GPS + some ego and a few Budweiser's tends to skew the numbers a touch .. :eek:
I come from a place where you can see the numbers down to the ten thousandths column, from the space station. And even there guys say ... It's got more in it .. :rolleyes:
If you have the money or credit to spend over 100K on a perfectly good running boat, and are young enough to not let the guy after you get all the goodie out of it .. then by all means by three of them things. They won't be anything more than anyone else can go buy , but they will sit idling while your eating lunch, talking on the phone .. then run over 100 for as long as you want.
Even though they would be under wty , hard to get a concrete answer on parts availability in case they need them. As one guy said a page or three ago, his buddy sold his cuz they couldnt come up with a replacement prop shaft.
Might be time to sell the 300x stuff, and then it might not be. Hard to say if they will be like gold in a few more years, or the mindset will be , no one wants old two-strokes, even if they are X or XS motors.
Me, I'm two years away from retiring .. how deep that will go, is hard to say. I do know that I'm not willing to pull any real money out of my nest egg when I can draw a payment once a year along with a S.S. check that the Mrs. and I put good money in over a lifetime. If anything, I'd rather add to what I've got.
Besides , I got enough 3.0L stuff to last me till I need a pontoon boat with a 50 hp and a map on how to get home .. :)

[Brad Zastrow]

I think you just accused me of not telling the truth how fast my MTI would run. Have you ever been in a big cat with big power? I had twin 598 CI, 16:71 blowers, 1300hp with Six drives, 1.24 gears and 38 pitch props. The rpm was 6500+ with a 5% slip. Do the math. 180 mph. Engines would run 7000 rpm on the dyno. I did not have the nerve to go any faster. The boat was a dog until it aired out at 90 mph and then hang on. They are not drag boats and a take long time to get up to speed. The boat cruised at 110 mph at 1/2 throttle. 140 was my normal cruise speed in the Ozarks. I grew weary of the expense running a boat like that. Maybe I sold it ahead of the curve as now the big cats with i/o power are getting hard to sell. When I bought my Talon you could count on one hand how many 36' cat that had O/B's. Now the market is red hot for anything with a porky outboard. Why are you such a hater on the new engines? Have Joe give you a ride in a DW with the new Mercs.

[Chaz]

There is more than enough proof out there to see what those boats run. To think yours wouldn't be any different would be foolish on my part.
However, some guys in the boating world tend to stretch the truth a bit .. especially when they have had a few. Then to fit in .. uuhhh, yea mine runs xxx too. I've passed boats that claimed to run 100 mph when I watched them struggle to go 95. I've had people say I was going 125 when you went past me .. when my boat wouldn't go 125 if it fell out of a tree.

I said .. LOTO is the only thing that offers any real semblance of proof. If the track is short , it's short for everybody . the outboard boats run the same or a couple MPH slower. If the porky outboards need another four miles .. maybe someone should tell those guys to try a little less wheel ..

Perhaps you missed the "pie in the sky" numbers mentioned a few years ago about how fast the 300r's were. The few that have ran LOTO, lets say didn't meet those expectations .. ;)

Nope, never have been in a "big cat with big power" . :nonod:

Have you ever been in a 1800 pound car with 1800 HP .. ??? It will change you definition of acceleration and speed .. :)

The results are on the scoreboard for the world to see. Much like numbers called down from the bluff .. see my point :confused:

Hater .. more like a realist. I offer the other side of the coin, and get branded as a hater .. that's pretty comical. :D
I've made plenty of points thru-out this and other threads. Most I take it were too painful to accept , so they were either ignored , twisted into things I didn't say or met with a barrage of points leading in different directions.
Even when I answered the question poised in this threads title. :rolleyes:
The only thing I can say is either I was correct or some people need to work on their acceptance and/or reading comprehension skills .. :cheers:

[Stoker boy]

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

You guys buy all these high dollar boats and then talk about fuel economy. Are you guys running out of fuel all the time?

[Brad Zastrow]

Boat holds 300 gallons. To fill the boat is close just over $1000. I normally run through 50-100 gal of premium a day. So yeah $400 in gas a weekend makes you take notice when you can do better for the same speed.

[Stoker boy]

If you spend 130 K for better fuel economy how long is the payback? I guess it would make sense if you ran the boat as a business.

[Stoker boy]

I think it’s funny to go out and order a boat with the stipulation that it must run 150+ mph. Then ask the salesperson by the way how is the fuel economy. Personally if I’m going to drop $200,000, $300,000 or $400,000 on a boat fuel economy is the least of my worries.

I do understand people want to save money.

[Chaz]

The best I can describe it is .. like when I was 15, I told my mom that a RD-350 with chambers had 5 bhp. But not before I practiced with my buddies .. :D

Practicing with us will make " Honey, we need these new motors, because they get waayyyyy better gas milage than those old clunkers" just roll right off their lips .. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX5cJ2GqzFw

[Stoker boy]

It doesn't matter if you have a dollar or 1 million, people of all tax brackets enjoy saving money whenever they can. I ran a 496HO in a 28 Active Thunder and when I upgraded to a Merc 525 I would fill it up on the trailer and saved a lot of money that summer. That package was 125k and if I saved 2000 that summer in gas I was very happy. I was happy to sell a Donzi last year with 250 merc 2 strokes, great boat but running offshore was expensive, sucked gas and oil. If I did not buy the Checkmate I would have dropped 2 4 strokes on the back.



$2000 over the course of the summer does not seem like a lot of money unless you only take the boat out once during the summer? If you run 120 MPH and the new motors let you run 180 mph that I understand. Another way to save fuel is to cruise at about 40 or 50 MPH and enjoy the beauty of your surroundings. I guess some people enjoy only having a two speed throttle full open, full closed.

[JPEROG]

The fuel cost is one thing but not necessarily a deal breaker. Fuel availability is however a deal breaker. "I carried fuel cans in my STV for years". I love the new motors for the simple fact you can run 120 mph for 30 or 40 miles and they are happy to continue. Never before could you do this with outboards. That is why you witnessed so few entered in poker runs/fun runs that covered any distance.

As for the 300R being so fast, l had a 28 DW designed Fat Cat that l planned to complete but sold to a friend thinking l could easily obtain another. Brad has been in one of these boats (and has the experience to trust). The current owner of the 300R powered 28 (an experienced performance boat owner), Z06 man, and l all agree that there is not a faster or faster accelerating 25 to 30 foot cat out there with twin 300s of any label. The R motors are impressive.

I never got to run one at the shootout but when the guy who bought mine gets it completed, it will speak for itself.

Joe

[Chaz]

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ... :cheers:

[JPEROG]

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ... :cheers:

We lost too many key players for me to be involved in promoting them. If l/we end up with the molds, l will have one for my Florida/St. John's runner. Like l and others have said, nothing runs like one with 300R motors. They run well with XS power to but put four people and fuel in the mix and things become different.

[powerabout]

Hows are the paper thin castings doing in the Florida sun and salt?
I know yams in Asia have eaten away before they had a wear and tear issue

[aggiestckl]

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ... :cheers:

I ran the outside from Ft Myers to Tampa to the Joey Gratton run in 32 DW with 300R and 6 people in it with 14.75/31P Merc 5 blade cleavers.. it was on hell of a ride at 85-100 most of the way.. ****ty, snotty, rough water but the boat will do it.. Ran the inside on way home as we got back at pitch black dark and I had 5 people on board.. Boat will do more than I atleast would want to do with it in the rough.. Lake of the Ozarks is roughest water I've ever seen, including offshore and the DW and MTI OB cats eat it up every day. No disrespect, just saying they are way different than the 24 and 28 skaters of yesteryear

[Chaz]

Hows are the paper thin castings doing in the Florida sun and salt?
I know yams in Asia have eaten away before they had a wear and tear issue

Power ol boy .. we have to remember that the rose-colored glasses do not see into the future. Ten years from now is not even a thought.

However, in ten years .. the ballers of that era will say Ppfftttt .. what, them old azz 300 V-8's . Yesterday's news .. aint no one cares about them .. ;)


Aggiman , what about all them boats with two-strokes that went back and forth from Columbia to Miami from the mid-seventies to the mid ninety's .. ;)

People have a hard time with just our inlets here on the treasure / gold-coast. Let alone out in the gulfstream where at times you can only briefly see the top of a 40' tower on the boat a half a mile in front of you as you both go up and down the hills. Let alone get caught in the middle of a lil "summer squall" .. They don't call it the devils triangle for nuttin .. :)

https://i.imgur.com/x7SZIqQl.jpg

[Speed Jr.]

Sure is a LOT of X and XS motors for sale! Here and all over FB. The 300R seems to be a clear winner on these bigger boats. Glenn is spot on. The new larger hulls with new power can do things that just wasn't possible with the older equipment. 15 years ago if someone said 32ft to 42ft hulls would run the speeds they run today with twin outboards most would laugh. My father loves his new florida pleasure boat with the Merc 300 V8. The dealer said they wouldn't even offer it as a single outboard back in the day with the old 2 strokes. The torque is impressive. Brad will pick up some MPH and lots of acceleration with 300Rs and keep making upgrades as he goes. He has been in enough modern powered boats to see where the gains are. Randy has rigged dozens of new and used Libs with the 300Rs. They are a consistent 5-10mph faster, on the higher end with passengers. Gotta tip your hat off to Merc for giving us something to play with. Yeah might seem pricey but hey most great experiences cost money. Could be a kick ass boat or a hot chick. Lol. Some people appreciate these things, others just bitch about things cause they tend to be unhappy people. Chaz you should just be happy to keep wrenching on the old stuff you love so much. No need to keep dogging the new stuff just because it goes against your narrative of trying to staying relevant. I just got rid of all my gauges in my boat. One big touch screen display now. Hope that doesn't upset you also. Maybe you can go off on a tangent of how gauges with all the wires, holes, light bulbs, fogging up lenses, etc are better? Im just prepping everyone for the next rambling post of yours that contributes nothing to the conversation at hand......:D

Jr.

[JPEROG]

Larry,

This is the first thing that came to mind after reading your post LOL; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMmc3CJHnU

Joe

[Speed Jr.]

Larry,

This is the first thing that came to mind after reading your post LOL; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMmc3CJHnU

Joe

Lol. Couldn't help myself! See ya soon brother......

[Chaz]

Sure is a LOT of X and XS motors for sale! Here and all over FB. The 300R seems to be a clear winner on these bigger boats. Glenn is spot on. The new larger hulls with new power can do things that just wasn't possible with the older equipment. 15 years ago if someone said 32ft to 42ft hulls would run the speeds they run today with twin outboards most would laugh. My father loves his new florida pleasure boat with the Merc 300 V8. The dealer said they wouldn't even offer it as a single outboard back in the day with the old 2 strokes. The torque is impressive. Brad will pick up some MPH and lots of acceleration with 300Rs and keep making upgrades as he goes. He has been in enough modern powered boats to see where the gains are. Randy has rigged dozens of new and used Libs with the 300Rs. They are a consistent 5-10mph faster, on the higher end with passengers. Gotta tip your hat off to Merc for giving us something to play with. Yeah might seem pricey but hey most great experiences cost money. Could be a kick ass boat or a hot chick. Lol. Some people appreciate these things, others just bitch about things cause they tend to be unhappy people. Chaz you should just be happy to keep wrenching on the old stuff you love so much. No need to keep dogging the new stuff just because it goes against your narrative of trying to staying relevant. I just got rid of all my gauges in my boat. One big touch screen display now. Hope that doesn't upset you also. Maybe you can go off on a tangent of how gauges with all the wires, holes, light bulbs, fogging up lenses, etc are better? Im just prepping everyone for the next rambling post of yours that contributes nothing to the conversation at hand......:D

Jr.

JPEROG

Larry,

This is the first thing that came to mind after reading your post LOL; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMmc3CJHnU

Joe

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal attack's .. My feelings are so .. no not really :D

Now I could say you two were just a couple of Mercury nutswingers .. :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYesrEKNMg



But I have much more class than that .. :)

Larry, I hope you didn't hafta go to college to understand that four strokes in general have more "inertia" (perceived as torque to some) than two strokes of the same size displacement, let alone half again bigger. :rolleyes:

As far as little two-strokes on big boats, ya might aughta wanna look at some of the boats that came out of Rabco. You can find them on Parker's photo albums.

Of course there are no new technology two-strokes on the market, so does it feel like a solid win to claim they are the clear winner .. LOL One horse race Pppfffttt just who's lookin to be "relevant". :cool:

If you have the money ($500,000.00+) for a new 40+ foot boat with a handful of porkchops hangin off the back .. then as I said before .. God Bless ;)

If you called them "a bit pricy" then I'm thinkin you don't have that kind of money. Your in good company .. most of us here including myself .. don't either. I'll bet there are even some who act like they do .. but in real life , they don't.
I went for a ride to lunch in a new Lambo not long ago .. yea it was on consignment .. Funny how looks can be deceiving .. :D

I think the sayin goes :
Yo eyes may shine, ya teeth may glitter .. but ya can't bull**** an old bull****er .

Is that a rant as you guys call it .. Am I a hater, LOL Judging by the way you avoid the key points made in statements I make as a "realist" .. I beginning to think your not allowed to respond without changing the subject ... or making it about me ... :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7esBPquvgoo

[Stoker boy]

Maybe in 20 years they will have 80 ft boats doing 120 mph.

[Chaz]

Maybe in 20 years they will have 80 ft boats doing 120 mph.

I really surprised that they are "settling" for forty footers with measly little 300 and 450 V-8's when they can have 100 foot / 100 mph boats with bowling ba .. err .. Mercury V-12's right now !

In 20 years, they will either have 200 foot boats with V-24 outboards. Or history will more than likely repeat itself and it will be back to 20 foot boats with six cylinder two-strokes .. ;)

[JPEROG]

In twenty years you can bet that there will be power capable of pushing boats faster then people care to go. We are already there and haven't even been exposed to stuff that continues to be released. I used to think a 170 mph boat was what I wanted, today it could be a reality but I have been there and experienced it--no thanks (the light weight boats give you the same thrill at much less speed). You also have more people to run with in that arena, less cost to buy, less cost to operate, less cost to insure and less cost of repairs. Now if I ever get things figured out to where I could have both as lots of guys do, while??? But for right now, I am more then thankful for what I have been provided and am able to provide. My new rig is being named R.P.R.T.
500611 I know I didn't do it all on my own but I also know the government didn't do it for me like Obama preached. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GjqdP6KSOE
Joe

[CUDA]

political... false statement, you had a rich dad.;)

[Stoker boy]

Or history will more than likely repeat itself and it will be back to 20 foot boats with six cylinder two-strokes .. ;)

The way the world is headed I think it is more likely we will be back to birch canoes and spears.

[Stoker boy]

political... false statement, you had a rich dad.;)

Mark 10:25

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Since you are an atheist Mr. CUDA I guess that means nothing to you.

[JPEROG]

As per usual one of the stooges makes a comment that he has absolutely ZERO knowledge of. You should ask or do some research before you type or talk. My dad is still alive #1. #2, any money that he had amassed has been eaten up over the last twelve years of cancer treatments, diagnosis, and continuous fight. I am with him today for treatments and visits in Jacksonville at Mayo. and we will fly to Mayo in Rockford MN. next week to see his main oncologist. He did get a chuckle when I told him some senile liberal bush wacker from Naples called him rich a few minutes ago.

He refuses to give up and we were really in a bad spot about a year ago "he made a claim that this was my last boat ride"--we were on my tri toon and hit a small wake that nobody else really even felt. The picture below is from two weeks ago when I got him a new Indian Scout to ride. He has tipped his H.D. dresser over several times now trying to move it around and its only a matter of time before he or someone else was hurt. I told him that I bought him a new Indian with a real low seat height but it had a 100 hp, was light weight, and would still grab his attention. He said "those are called girl scouts" LOL... I am looking forward to getting him in the 450 D.W. for blast on the St. Johns.

500615

Joe

[river rocket]

As per usual one of the stooges makes a comment that he has absolutely ZERO knowledge of. You should ask or do some research before you type or talk. My dad is still alive #1. #2, any money that he had amassed has been eaten up over the last twelve years of cancer treatments, diagnosis, and continuous fight. I am with him today for treatments and visits in Jacksonville at Mayo. and we will fly to Mayo in Rockford MN. next week to see his main oncologist. He did get a chuckle when I told him some senile liberal bush wacker from Naples called him rich a few minutes ago.

He refuses to give up and we were really in a bad spot about a year ago "he made a claim that this was my last boat ride"--we were on my tri toon and hit a small wake that nobody else really even felt. The picture below is from two weeks ago when I got him a new Indian Scout to ride. He has tipped his H.D. dresser over several times now trying to move it around and its only a matter of time before he or someone else was hurt. I told him that I bought him a new Indian with a real low seat height but it had a 100 hp, was light weight, and would still grab his attention. He said "those are called girl scouts" LOL... I am looking forward to getting him in the 450 D.W. for blast on the St. Johns.

500615

Joe

Great story of perseverance Joe and an awesome photo. God bless you and your father. Enjoy our frigid state next week. I will be in Florida all week.

[John S]

Sure is a LOT of X and XS motors for sale! Here and all over FB..

Out of the multitude of things the whiners have gotten wrong aboot this new generation of motors, there is one thing they got right. There will be an abundance of the older gen motors they love, which should make them happy as clams. Weird to come to a fun and cool thread about the sport you love, and just **** all over it. Simple fact is that if you're into motorsports, any and everything should at least be interesting to you. Don't have to love it, but whining aboot it seems odd to me. And mercury didn't leave the small boat hi perf market, the boat manufacturers left because there was no demand. Time moves on.

[Stoker boy]

I don’t think the whiners as you call them are stopping anyone from purchasing the new technology motors. People have the right to purchase one just like people have a right to put them down.

[engineermike]

The problem is that “those who aren’t interested in modern 4-stroke power” sure are interested in “participating in” (crapping all over) any and every thread started to discuss 4-strokes. I’ve never understood this behavior. I’m not interested in Diesel engines but you won’t find one diesel thread anywhere on the internet that I went into and explained to them how bad I think their engines are. If you don’t like them or don’t want one, fine, but have some courtesy and don’t ruin it for everyone who is interested.

[JPEROG]

The problem is that “those who aren’t interested in modern 4-stroke power” sure are interested in “participating in” (crapping all over) any and every thread started to discuss 4-strokes. I’ve never understood this behavior. I’m not interested in Diesel engines but you won’t find one diesel thread anywhere on the internet that I went into and explained to them how bad I think their engines are. If you don’t like them or don’t want one, fine, but have some courtesy and don’t ruin it for everyone who is interested.

Mike,

Sounds like I need to get a new mustang and send your way for a few months. JB says you have it figured out :thumbsup:

Joe

[Stoker boy]

An outboard is an outboard not a diesel. Let’s say next year the only thing you can purchase for transportation is a big large heavy expensive diesel, would you still stay silent? Perhaps you have a 1970 muscle car and would like to replace the gasoline engine, no sorry only big heavy engines are available. I have nothing against small lightweight four stroke engines I wish mercury would manufacture one.

[engineermike]

I can tell you what to WOULDNT do. If folks were interested in and actually liked the new whatever-it-is, and wanted to chat about the longevity and/or technical details, I wouldn’t go into any of those threads and tell them how I disagree with them all, let alone ALL of them. I mean, nearly every single modern engine thread in this forum is ruined by those who aren’t interested in and will never own the subject matter. You won’t find me posting in Tesla threads either. If they want to talk Tesla, that’s fine. I don’t like it so I don’t participate.

Start your own thread and complain all day long about evil Mercury and how unfair it is that they don’t make an engine suitable for a 1978 Hydrostream anymore and charge too much for 1992 engine parts. Bash “heavy, expensive, unproven” 4-strokes until you’re heart is content, but does every 4-stroke thread really need to hear it?

[Stoker boy]

I don’t have any problem with four stroke engines, I own plenty of them. Maybe they should make all the new cars 30 to 40 feet long.

[FMP]

Ha!

[HydroSkreamin]

500649

This is a boat that is two years old, serviced regularly by a Mercury Platinum Dealer. No mechanical failures whatsoever.

I’ve seen a 4-cylinder Verado with over 8000 hours from a barge on the Mississippi River. I’ve seen lots of 6-cylinder Verados with over 2500 hours on them.

Since the last two pages of this thread have about zero to do with helping answer the OP’s question, I’ll say Brad, I’m pretty sure you’ll be pleased with your decision, and I look forward to hearing your experiences dialing your boat in. Especially the first time you start all three engines up and you realize there’s some truth to that old commercial…I could’ve had a V8!

Hearing the V8 rumble behind me instead of the usual 6-cylinder song was very easy to get used to, but weird the first time I fired it up. I’m guessing Joe might weigh in on this, as he’s experienced it as well.

Just to give you perspective, this is the hours on my 6.2L in my Denali with 317,000 miles on it, and yes, I still tow the boat with it, and no, it doesn’t use oil. This obviously has less load and turns less RPM, but it does show that taking care of your equipment can make it last longer than if you don’t. There’s always that factor…
500653

[Petey]

Petey = thinkin

Chaz and crew could sell "I love my Four Stroke" bumper stickers and make enough money to buy up all the two stroke parts they need to keep their engines going forever.

Last summer was my first season with a four stroke, never took the cowl off except to change oil in October and put many more hours on than seasons before. Gear case design has come a long way as well in regards to water intrusion, coming from an opti and changing lube after every time out, to the L6 and changing it after 40-50 hours and it still looked better than the 3.0L despite similar speeds and running the L6 even higher.

500685 500686

[Stoker boy]

A small lightweight four stroke that is comparable to a 2.5 drag would be fantastic.

[Chaz]

Joe, It's great to see "pops" ridin his new Scout .. may he do so for a long time to come .. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

As far as the name / logo of the boat. Any chump can resort to saying Oh lord help me when they are afraid . It takes conviction to show the world where your heart is at, whether times are good, bad or anywhere in between. :cheers: <--{holy water(-=

Mini-me and I went together to get our right shoulder stripes .. :)

https://i.imgur.com/hfDs2Dkl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rEaxDaNl.jpg

As an American , I might not like what everybody has to say. However, I respect others right to their opinion.
Even the little libby weasels who call me a whiner as their whining about me sharing my opinion. If you are guilty of that, cut 25% of your man card off.

I asked for a porkchop parts list. I'll make it easy, Part number, price and availability of an intake cam for a 300r ... If you can't provide this information, cut another 25% off of your man card.

I asked how Mercury can justify charging $400.00 for $10.00 worth of O-rings. If you ignored the question or responded with some stupid justification about the free enterprise system on line .. but call and ask me to get you the $10.00 packet. Cut 25% off your man card.

I remember doing a shorty clamp bracket for a guy. The plastic side (scrub plates) needed to be replaced. They were $144.00 dollars at the time. Because of my customer confidentiality policy, I won't mention any names or what was said about Mercury's price structure .. for two little POS pieces of plastic .. ;)


<tbody>
3
847798A02 (https://www.mercruiserparts.com/847798a02-wear-pad-kit)
--WEAR PAD KIT

ACT
https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Plugins/Widgets.Bam/Content/Images/magnify.gif
$174.49
$164.12


</tbody>

https://www.mercruiserparts.com/Merc/MidasImagesNew/COMMON/14118.gif

If you said anything negative about me not willing to pay $80,000.00 dollars for two 300r porkchops. Thats right, show a receipt in your name (not a dummy corp) where you recently purchased two units in 2022 @ full pop + the vig .. cut 25% off your man card.

If you support a company that ****'s their dealer network and sells direct to hull mfg's @ a reduced rate, to only be used for new boats, no re-powers. **** the man card, just move your commie azz to China.

If you stop at a traffic light and notice a 350 RD / RZ or a H2 with chambers up ahead, and don't roll down your window to catch a listen and maybe a wiff, cut 25% off your man card.

If you are skeerd to go 170, then you really wouldn't like to be pre-staged, look straight across to find a decal , bumper , portion of the rear tire you need to be ahead of at the finish line block @ 210 MPH . Many will never win because they can't tear their eyes away from lookin straight ahead .. when they need to trust their ability the most ... no card deduction for admitting ya just aint got it. Matter of fact, take 25% back for being honest .. :D

706 ci four stroke .. :p

https://i.imgur.com/PLfBfzSl.jpg

Good new's for those who lost their man card twice over .. I am selling :

2) "I love my four stroke" decals for $379.95 a pair. Weeeelllllllll worth the money because they will be for your new Mercury. Don't be cheap and only buy one for each motor .. get two pair for $1079.95 Yes I know it's more .. but they are in very short supply .. :rolleyes:
I'll even throw in free shipping .. and 25% of a tattered man card .. :D

[Z06man]

CALL
Caldwell Racing Technology 2.5 Liter Billet Aluminum Race EnginesHe has them . I have 300XSs 300X and 300Rs but nothing sounds like a pair of 2.5s at 7500 or more . But I never had any last that long before needing to freshen .Add up what you spend on parts and labor not to mention the headaches and 300R seems much more reasonable. Not light but not much more than an 300XS Or X

[Brad Zastrow]

This has been a fun thread. I did get some very knowledgeable answers to the hours question. THANK YOU! My porky engines are on order. Some of the other posts are very entertaining. I bet some of you negative guys have signs in your front yard "Stay off the grass" and you yell at the kids on the sidewalk.

PS I have a diesel truck for towing, a V8 supercharged sports car for daily driving and my wife wants a Tesla. I like them all.

[Dave S]

:D...2.5s open them selves for inspection:cheers:......It is good that there are choices......new/used.......4/2 stroke:)..... used/new........;)......Cheep and costly.....

[engineermike]

As an American , I might not like what everybody has to say. However, I respect others right to their opinion.... sharing my opinion.

Nobody is trying to stifle free speech or anything like that....but in every single 4-stroke thread? Really? "Just because you can...doesn't mean you should."

Like I said before, just start your own thread and bash them all day long, but it would be courteous to stop ruining it for everyone else.


I asked for a porkchop parts list. I'll make it easy, Part number, price and availability of an intake cam for a 300r ...

Why do you feel entitled to having others make those 5 clicks to find that out for you? I'm not your choreboy, nor is anyone else here. If you want to make a point, then you look it up. Even a caveman can do it. You started out asking about rings and valvesprings, but I guess the result didn't fit your narrative...


I asked how Mercury can justify charging $400.00 for $10.00 worth of O-rings. If you ignored the question or responded with some stupid justification about the free enterprise system

That's the beauty of free enterprise...they don't have to justify it. And you don't have to buy it. Some are willing to pay the extra $390 to ensure they are getting the correct grade, durometer, and sub-supplier quality. Some aren't. Each can decide for themselves. If you think you can do better, then sounds like you can make a ton of money.


If you support a company that ****'s their dealer network and sells direct to hull mfg's @ a reduced rate, to only be used for new boats, no re-powers. **** the man card, just move your commie azz to China.

I don't know who this is directed at but myself and several others in this thread had no issue buying modern 4-stroke power from Mercury to re-power and old hull. And if Mercury doesn't sell to hull mfg's at a volume discount, then they would be the only company in the world that doesn't offer volume discounts.


If you stop at a traffic light and notice a 350 RD / RZ or a H2 with chambers up ahead, and don't roll down your window to catch a listen and maybe a wiff, cut 25% off your man card.

I'll take a 210 hp 2022 H2 4-stroke any day over an old 2-stroke 75 hp model. I actually own a few vintage 2-stroke bikes. They're a kick to ride, just not every day.


706 ci four stroke .. :p

....and like clockwork, the 3-decades-ago dragster has to be brought up in every. single. 4-stroke. thread. [groans from the audience] This thread had the privilege to hear about it twice.

Speaking of clockwork, you did say you would readily own up to it if you were wrong about something, didn't you? I pointed out and proved that your post 32 was dead wrong and I'm still waiting for you to show us that you're a man of your word.

[Stoker boy]

CALL
Caldwell Racing Technology 2.5 Liter Billet Aluminum Race Engines

He has them . I have 300XSs 300X and 300Rs but nothing sounds like a pair of 2.5s at 7500 or more . But I never had any last that long before needing to freshen .Add up what you spend on parts and labor not to mention the headaches and 300R seems much more reasonable. Not light but not much more than an 300XS Or X

If you’re going to run a boat at 100 mph+ most of the day and put 300 hours on during the summer then sounds like the new 4 strokes are the way to go. I don’t like the fact that Mercury won’t allow dealers to tweak the ECU box without major consequences.

[John S]

If you support a company that ****'s their dealer network and sells direct to hull mfg's @ a reduced rate, to only be used for new boats, no re-powers. **** the man card, just move your commie azz to China.

Makes this statement. Has a picture in the same post with not one... But TWO of the aforementioned motors from this terrible company on his boat. Not sure if that makes a guy a double commie, or if the two cancel each other out.:D If that ain't lacking in self awareness, guess I don't know what is. :rolleyes: And anyone that uses the phrase mancard... Well, I'll just let it rest there.;)
HydroSkreamin That's impressive with the 6.2. I used to have one I'm my GMC c3 with a ecm reflash from wait for me performance. That sucker straight up hauled ass.

The CRT is an absolute piece of functional art. I've watched the videos so many times, I think I broke the YT algorithm.:D But anyone that ever thought that would be for mass consumption was fooling themselves.

[Speed Jr.]

Well done Brad. That's gunna be a fun day of rigging. Let me know when....

[Chaz]

This has been a fun thread. I did get some very knowledgeable answers to the hours question. THANK YOU! My porky engines are on order. Some of the other posts are very entertaining. I bet some of you negative guys have signs in your front yard "Stay off the grass" and you yell at the kids on the sidewalk.

PS I have a diesel truck for towing, a V8 supercharged sports car for daily driving and my wife wants a Tesla. I like them all.

I'll bet that some of the guys here that ask the tough questions, want a government the size of the DMV. Enjoy watching kids play in a free society and have cut enough donuts in yards .. that when the bars close and the drunk derby begins, I can only laugh when they tear my yard up .

No questions answered : enjoy your new motors .. but turn in your man card ;)

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3329509#post3329509)
As an American , I might not like what everybody has to say. However, I respect others right to their opinion.... sharing my opinion.




Nobody is trying to stifle free speech or anything like that....but in every single 4-stroke thread? Really? "Just because you can...doesn't mean you should."


Like I said before, just start your own thread and bash them all day long, but it would be courteous to stop ruining it for everyone else.

First, multi-quoting .. I'm flattered you copied my style. But get your own :p
Yes, I can have my opinion, but don't express it .. **** you toaster boy.
If you could read, you'd notice I ask questions, not make statements ..

Second .. no girlfriend yet .. huh , its no wonder .. :eek:

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3329509#post3329509)
I asked for a porkchop parts list. I'll make it easy, Part number, price and availability of an intake cam for a 300r ...




Why do you feel entitled to having others make those 5 clicks to find that out for you? I'm not your choreboy, nor is anyone else here. If you want to make a point, then you look it up. Even a caveman can do it. You started out asking about rings and valvesprings, but I guess the result didn't fit your narrative...


The thing I like about over-educated lefty idiots is that while you think your making sense, your only showing that you don't realize that the bowling ball wont even list valve train components .. to skeerd that someone will be smart enough to turn a pee-wee -wanna-be 300 into a full 300. Ooppsss , should have let it go, cuz you went from being my "chore boy" to being my ***** .. Greg .. whaaaa I know I asked for it .. buttt , buttttt .. Whhaaaaaa

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3329509#post3329509)
I asked how Mercury can justify charging $400.00 for $10.00 worth of O-rings. If you ignored the question or responded with some stupid justification about the free enterprise system




That's the beauty of free enterprise...they don't have to justify it. And you don't have to buy it. Some are willing to pay the extra $390 to ensure they are getting the correct grade, durometer, and sub-supplier quality. Some aren't. Each can decide for themselves. If you think you can do better, then sounds like you can make a ton of money.

My bad, I forget that there are some out there that are stupid enough to pay those kind of prices .. Quality .. LMAO , like I asked the head ***** himself : How many acres of rubber trees you got up there in cheeseland .. ehh ??
Like you, no direct answer to a direct question , but he had a great Michael Jackson moonwalk getting out of there .. China crap and you both know it !

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3329509#post3329509)
If you support a company that ****'s their dealer network and sells direct to hull mfg's @ a reduced rate, to only be used for new boats, no re-powers. **** the man card, just move your commie azz to China.




I don't know who this is directed at but myself and several others in this thread had no issue buying modern 4-stroke power from Mercury to re-power and old hull. And if Mercury doesn't sell to hull mfg's at a volume discount, then they would be the only company in the world that doesn't offer volume discounts.

I can see you have no clue what it's like to work for yourself. Let alone buy into a company's franchise program.
Boat builders wait time, 6 months.
Mercury dealer, 1 year and aprox. $5000.00 cheaper ..... @ the hull mfg. :o
Wait till you go to a dealer to get the motor programed on a re-power.
Thats as far as I can speak on that .. maybe even went one step too far.
I believe in volume discounts .... to high volume dealers. Mercury believes in "no volume" dealers. Can't dumb it down any more for ya .. maybe try reading it a few times over .. :rolleyes:

https://www.screamandfly.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chaz https://www.screamandfly.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?p=3329509#post3329509)
If you stop at a traffic light and notice a 350 RD / RZ or a H2 with chambers up ahead, and don't roll down your window to catch a listen and maybe a wiff, cut 25% off your man card.




I'll take a 210 hp 2022 H2 4-stroke any day over an old 2-stroke 75 hp model. I actually own a few vintage 2-stroke bikes. They're a kick to ride, just not every day.

You missed the question Are you really that stupid ???

706 ci four stroke .. :p




....and like clockwork, the 3-decades-ago dragster has to be brought up in every. single. 4-stroke. thread. [groans from the audience] This thread had the privilege to hear about it twice.


Speaking of clockwork, you did say you would readily own up to it if you were wrong about something, didn't you? I pointed out and proved that your post 32 was dead wrong and I'm still waiting for you to show us that you're a man of your word.

Most , like yourself, gott nuttin that will go 60' in less than a second. 175 mph in a couple football fields and over 200 mph in a couple more.
So when they start explaining to me about needing to go to the long course @ Bonniville to go 125 -130 .. I just gotta remind you/them that they are preachin to the choir. ;)

BTW , The only fast Mustangs have Big Block Chevy's in them.:thumbsup:
If you want to learn something .. call QA-1 and ask them who they bought hundreds of Fox body K - members , caster~camber plates and A-arms from . :)
Yep, that would be me, and like any big outfit .. they had it all copied and produced in China .

You twisting my words into something I didn't mean or say .. doesn't make you right. It only shows that you try to make "word salad" with your chicken **** try and failure .. gotcha attempts. Pppfffttttt ******* rookie.

I'm gettin tired of propping your no talent azz up. And I can only find humor in shootin fish in a barrel for so long .. Swim along little guppy :D

If you don't or can't handle the truth from me .. I suggest you don't read what I write .. here's what we really know about that --->

https://i.imgur.com/mD2nP6El.jpg


A Chaz quote, semi-quoted :

If you support a company that ****'s their dealer network and sells direct to hull mfg's @ a reduced rate, to only be used for new boats, no re-powers. **** the man card, just move your commie azz to China.



Makes this statement. Has a picture in the same post with not one... But TWO of the aforementioned motors from this terrible company on his boat. Not sure if that makes a guy a double commie, or if the two cancel each other out.
:D If that ain't lacking in self awareness, guess I don't know what is. :rolleyes: And anyone that uses the phrase mancard... Well, I'll just let it rest there.;)
@HydroSkreamin (https://www.screamandfly.com/member.php?u=19985)That's impressive with the 6.2. I used to have one I'm my GMC c3 with a ecm reflash from wait for me performance. That sucker straight up hauled ass.

The CRT is an absolute piece of functional art. I've watched the videos so many times, I think I broke the YT algorithm.:D But anyone that ever thought that would be for mass consumption was fooling themselves.

They are not new , and when new I don't remember them resorting to underhanded practices used today. Which I take it you either approve of , or are too chicken **** to speak up about it. Either way just fall in line like the rest of the sheeple and buy what they offer.
Here's your shot .. How many CRT motors you gotz .. ???

When I was a kid , Sothern California was where all the kool idea's came from.
That progressed into , while it might have been invented there , we on the East Coast taught ya how to use it.
Fast forward to now, where your idea's come from .. is a haven of human smuggling, crooked politicians , garbage filled streets and zero individualism.
How long till you fall into the Pacific .. personally I'm gettin tired of the rest of the nation, supporting your welfare state. :rolleyes:

[Stoker boy]

CALL
Caldwell Racing Technology 2.5 Liter Billet Aluminum Race Engines

He has them . I have 300XSs 300X and 300Rs but nothing sounds like a pair of 2.5s at 7500 or more . But I never had any last that long before needing to freshen .Add up what you spend on parts and labor not to mention the headaches and 300R seems much more reasonable. Not light but not much more than an 300XS Or X

Parts for 2.5 are a little pricey, labor???? 2.5s are easy to work on.

[CUDA]

What does he get for 2.5 crankshafts?

[mikesufka]

Brad -

Cool project - can’t wait to hear your thoughts after.

MDS

[Stoker boy]

What does he get for 2.5 crankshafts?

Do crankshafts break all the time? I’ve paid $800.00 to $1800.00 for a crankshaft. Next question.

[engineermike]

First, multi-quoting .. I'm flattered you copied my style....If you don't or can't handle the truth from me ..

Ha, now he's claiming he invented the multi-quote again. Just like the dragster...it's old and worn out. Find some new material. [more groans from the audience]


**** you toaster boy....no girlfriend yet .. huh , its no wonder ...over-educated lefty idiots...Are you really that stupid ???...******* rookie...your no talent azz...little guppy
I can see I've touched a nerve...but don't worry, I won't sink to your level of attempts to insult your way out of being wrong.


If you could read, you'd notice I ask questions, not make statements ..

So I was right in post #62 when I called you out for "playing some sort of game to try to get one of "us" to make a point for you". No thanks.


the bowling ball wont even list valve train components .. to skeerd that someone will be smart enough to turn a pee-wee -wanna-be 300 into a full 300.

Flat wrong. Again. 5 clicks, even a caveman can do it. Just like finding the $3 valvesprings that didn't fit your narrative.


I can see you have no clue what it's like to work for yourself.

And you obviously have no clue what it's like to work for a large OEM or understand what it takes to stock a quantity of quality spare parts.


charging $400.00 for $10.00 worth of O-rings. .. call and ask me to get you the $10.00 packet.

Let me make sure I understand this...

China reverse-engineers US product and undermines the US by selling them for cheaper = bad.

Chaz reverse-engineers US product and undermines the manufacturer by selling them for cheaper = good.

Got it. I'm not judging, though.


Wait till you go to a dealer to get the motor programed on a re-power.

Well I did it at a comparatively low-volume dealer and it just wasn't an issue. If there's some other issue you're talking around here, then if you want anyone to understand your point then you'll have to give more details...including any contracts the parties agreed to before partaking in said venture.


Most , like yourself, gott nuttin .. I just gotta remind you/them that they are preachin to the choir.

Ironic. Do your 2-strokes run yet or are they still blown?


You twisting my words into something I didn't mean or say .. .. gotcha attempts. .

Let me explain this more clearly. No word twisting whatsoever...

You said, "if you see something I said that isn't true , then I will take it back or apologize".

Link: https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?342925-300R-vs-300X&p=3140089#post3140089

In post 32, you said that Mercury claimed 40 ftlb "across the sweep".

Link: Four Stroke Mercury's how long before rebuilding? - Page 3 (screamandfly.com) (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?361293-Four-Stroke-Mercury-s-how-long-before-rebuilding&p=3327391#post3327391)

However, Mercury only claimed 40 ftlb at 2000 rpm.

Link: Four Stroke Mercury's how long before rebuilding? - Page 4 (screamandfly.com) (https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?361293-Four-Stroke-Mercury-s-how-long-before-rebuilding&p=3327495#post3327495)

I'm not sure how to simplify this more than I just did. So I'll be waiting for your take-back or apology.

To take it one step further, you claimed that Mercury "wont even list valve train components" for the 300R, but anyone who can click a mouse 5 times can see that's not true. So there's another chance for you to make good on your word.

[Stoker boy]

Hey engineermike, aren’t those new four strokes great!

[engineermike]

Hey engineermike, aren’t those new four strokes great!

I sure like mine and can share my experience. But mine is “just” a 400R not the v8’s that Brad is inquiring about.

[JPEROG]

I sure like mine and can share my experience. But mine is “just” a 400R not the v8’s that Brad is inquiring about.

Mike,

You were the first person that I know of besides Hydro to make a single application 400R run over 100 mph. I remember you reporting test results after striping the twins off and that's what started opening my mind to switching over. I had never had another single run any long distance with my 300X or modified XS/X combos. My hats off to you for what you were determined to solve and making it happen on both your eliminator and mustang :thumbsup:.

Brad will love his new boat "it will be like getting a new boat".

Joe

[Chaz]

Mikey boy, I multi quote to include all who respond to me. A respect kind of thing. You on the other hand only multi quote me. You seem to put a lot of effort into dissecting my every word, twisting it into something I didn't say. At first, I thought you were stupid and illiterate. Now I see that you recall .. (well try to recall) what I said from two years ago. Poor thing, your just butt-hurt, and well .... stupid.

I ask a simple yes or no question : Who rolls their window down at a traffic light to hear the sound of an RD / RZ Yamaha or H-2 Kawasaki with chambers.

It's not a trick question, no need in being paranoid. It's for me to see if the whole world has gone woke or if these are those who still appreciate the sounds of a healthy two-stroke. Here's an example of an answer to the question. As well as a personal response from either side of the fence.

He11 Yea Brother .. how gay do ya have to be to not like the sound of a healthy 2-stroke.

Ohh no .. those noisy things splatter a lab tested, proven, oil film on my Bugatti.

See how easy .. I realize Mikey is too mushy~washy to say yes or no. However the question was never poised just at him .. his Obsessive Compulsive Disorder along with his desire to be my pen pal has him clogging up my post's with lies, deception and long-drawn-out episodes of butt-hurt.
He's lost like at least three, man cards already .. no amount of decal purchases will ever "earn" him one back. :p

So, the question still stands .. :thumbsup:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

J.P. quips:


You were the first person that I know of besides Hydro to make a single application 400R run over 100 mph.

That would make him the second person .. :)

​Air entrapment hull , 400 HP , where's the confusion .. :rolleyes:

[OnPad]

Hell yea brother, nothing sounds better than a screaming 2 stroke, even if it covers my own back in oil!!!
I don't think the EPA likes them, doubt we will see a resurgence of new ones.
I've already collected a lifetime supply.

[David]

The EPA doesn't mind two strokes. The Evinrude line up worked fine, the 200XS and 300XS met emissions. Maybe it's Yamaha's fault for going two stroke and taking the market with them. As for Mercury, if you want to go fast, its a big boat with a new big 4 stroke Mercury or a smaller older boat with an older Mercury. Do I wish Mercury made lighter engines and sold parts reasonably? Sure. What else are you going to buy to go fast other than Mercury?

[OnPad]

The EPA put a chokehold on high performance 2 strokes in the early 2000's. That's why everybody went to direct injection and the engines got heavier. I wouldn't be surprised if four stroke outboards are running catalytic converters in the next 20 years.

[JPEROG]

Mikey boy, I multi quote to include all who respond to me. A respect kind of thing. You on the other hand only multi quote me. You seem to put a lot of effort into dissecting my every word, twisting it into something I didn't say. At first, I thought you were stupid and illiterate. Now I see that you recall .. (well try to recall) what I said from two years ago. Poor thing, your just butt-hurt, and well .... stupid.

I ask a simple yes or no question : Who rolls their window down at a traffic light to hear the sound of an RD / RZ Yamaha or H-2 Kawasaki with chambers.

It's not a trick question, no need in being paranoid. It's for me to see if the whole world has gone woke or if these are those who still appreciate the sounds of a healthy two-stroke. Here's an example of an answer to the question. As well as a personal response from either side of the fence.

He11 Yea Brother .. how gay do ya have to be to not like the sound of a healthy 2-stroke.

Ohh no .. those noisy things splatter a lab tested, proven, oil film on my Bugatti.

See how easy .. I realize Mikey is too mushy~washy to say yes or no. However the question was never poised just at him .. his Obsessive Compulsive Disorder along with his desire to be my pen pal has him clogging up my post's with lies, deception and long-drawn-out episodes of butt-hurt.
He's lost like at least three, man cards already .. no amount of decal purchases will ever "earn" him one back. :p

So, the question still stands .. :thumbsup:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

J.P. quips:


[/COLOR]That would make him the second person .. :)

​Air entrapment hull , 400 HP , where's the confusion .. :rolleyes:


Brent tried like hell, we couldn't get the LCB to run "There are a couple running now with modifications that were not available at the time" but Mike figured his out with consistent height and propeller testing. Hydro figured his out but is in a league of his own in what he will do to make something work (read his build tread). I was totally against the four stroke because of this and still am not a fan of a single application 400 especially compared to the new V-8 stuff and its potential.

My brother and I rode his RZ350 and RZV500 two strokes a little bit during biketober fest this year. Yes they sound cool but they are not what we thought they were back in the day (we have much more effective and enjoyable choices). Rode my GS1150E and V-Max recently "same thing-they used to be fast". I just like to look at them like the old sleds we are going to hang on the barn wall (good memories and cool art to stare at in today's world). New technology can't be beat for overall usability and reliable off the shelf performance.

Joe

[JPEROG]

The EPA doesn't mind two strokes. The Evinrude line up worked fine, the 200XS and 300XS met emissions. Maybe it's Yamaha's fault for going two stroke and taking the market with them. As for Mercury, if you want to go fast, its a big boat with a new big 4 stroke Mercury or a smaller older boat with an older Mercury. Do I wish Mercury made lighter engines and sold parts reasonably? Sure. What else are you going to buy to go fast other than Mercury?

The emissions standards that the XS series motors met all had expiration dates. They phased out two strokes just like they will phase out gasoline and diesel.

What else? Nothing, unless you adapt a Mercury case in most set-ups. Then if you are going to play in the rough, you will need a mid-section to go with it. Mercury is still the best and we should be thankful to have the opportunities and product they continue to offer (nobody else is even making the attempt). "I have always said, "show me something better" and I am in--always crickets.

Joe

[engineermike]

I thought you were stupid and illiterate...your just butt-hurt, and well .... stupid.

Speaking of insults, I want to publicly apologize for calling you a "Chaz-been". I don't think I've insulted you at any other time, but if I have, I apologize for them too. It was childish of me and I take it back.


Now I see that you recall .. (well try to recall) what I said from two years ago.

I directly quoted you and provided a link. What part, exactly, did I get wrong?


I ask a simple yes or no question : Who rolls their window down at a traffic light to hear the sound of an RD / RZ Yamaha or H-2 Kawasaki with chambers.

It's not a trick question, no need in being paranoid. It's for me to see if the whole world has gone woke or if these are those who still appreciate the sounds of a healthy two-stroke. Here's an example of an answer to the question. As well as a personal response from either side of the fence.

Had you been paying attention to post 118, you'd know my answer.

Speaking of unanswered questions, I asked in post 62 if your 2-strokes even run and how many years they've been blown. What's the phrase you use? Crickets?


...with lies, deception and long-drawn-out episodes

Please show me where I've lied or deceived anyone in any way. I even supplied links so anyone can see the source for themselves.

In post 32, you built that case that Mercury claimed 40 ftlb of torque more "across the sweep". No deception or word twisting on my end. But Mercury never claimed 40 ftlb "across the sweep"; they only claimed it at 2000 rpm as I showed. So, you were either wrong or you were seeking to mislead people into thinking Mercury is lying.

You also said that the "bowling ball wont even list valve train components .. to skeerd that someone will be smart enough to turn a pee-wee -wanna-be 300 into a full 300." However, 5 clicks and anyone can see that they do, in fact, list 300r valvetrain components on their website. Once again, you're either wrong or attempting to mislead people into thinking Mercury is hiding information.

And again, to show that I'm not twisting any words, lying, or deceiving anyone, these are direct quotes:

Chaz: "Mercury can justify charging $400.00 for $10.00 worth of O-rings. .. but call and ask me to get you the $10.00 packet."

Also Chaz: "QA-1 and ask them who they bought hundreds of Fox body K - members , caster~camber plates and A-arms from . :)
Yep, that would be me, and like any big outfit .. they had it all copied and produced in China ."

I don't understand why it's ok for Chaz to reverse-engineer Mercury's product and sell at a lower price, but it's not ok for China to copy Chaz's product and sell at a lower price. The only principal difference I can see is that one is to Chaz's benefit and the other is to Chaz's detriment. I can understand being upset about one or the other, but not both.

[Dave S]

OKeee I will.... summ it up.....Ya fighitin' a bout......how long.... and costly it will beeee for the Newww 4 stroke.....Time will tell.... As Chazzzz Has said a Horrrzz timing chain..... Pisst.... I have pulled Caddi and Toyota motors and the thing that failed was the Chain....Good Merc.... test motors in a test tank under supervised invio......Phisst Time will tell. I worked in a small Merc shop 10 years ago..... sold out buy Merc.....Mom and Pop Buisiness....Merc sold them out.................Too big to fail:rolleyes:.......Worked..... also.... Merc shop in 1970.........Pisst.....Worked on L6 mercs.........Donalld woodds had a T1..... couldn't get it to Plane.... Carbs cleand... Ing checked.... no go..... Sat in the seat....Plained rite off.......They were HOW..... WWWigggethe Wheel.....Pisstt:cheers: SSM........:rolleyes: HeeHee

[Stoker boy]

The emissions standards that the XS series motors met all had expiration dates. They phased out two strokes just like they will phase out gasoline and diesel.

What else? Nothing, unless you adapt a Mercury case in most set-ups. Then if you are going to play in the rough, you will need a mid-section to go with it. Mercury is still the best and we should be thankful to have the opportunities and product they continue to offer (nobody else is even making the attempt). "I have always said, "show me something better" and I am in--always crickets.

Joe

Boat with Birch canoes. Good for the environment and put Mercury Marine out of business. This way when you’re boating you can hear the sound of crickets. :D

[Stoker boy]

That's the beauty of free enterprise...they don't have to justify it. And you don't have to buy it. Some are willing to pay the extra $390 to ensure they are getting the correct grade, durometer, and sub-supplier quality. Some aren't. Each can decide for themselves. If you think you can do better, then sounds like you can make a ton of money.
[/QUOTE]

Rectifier cost less than $2.00 dollars, check the price on a rectifier for a drag motor or 260. They’re stronger and more durable than the one mercury is using.

500797

[Chaz]

So we have "one" yes (actually a he11 yea brother) .. :thumbsup:

And "four" undecideds ... :eek:

As I anticipated .. the "two-strokes" have jumped out to lead by a 100% margin .. :)

[Stoker boy]

2.5 two-stroke vs t501071he new heavy four stroke.

[JPEROG]

This is an outboard fun run (all are invited if your boat has outboards). Pretty sure the majority could afford what ever they want but seem to choose the new technology and for good reasons.

https://youtu.be/_oevn1dDdt4

Joe