What is going on in this clyinder?

[CDave]

The first two links are of the #5 cly on my 2.4 200.
The third link is of # 3 and all the others look like #3.

What is causing the scuffing in #5 and what needs to be done?
I was told this is a "fishin" 2.4 is this true?

http://www.darksavior.net/~cajndave/cylinder.jpg
http://www.darksavior.net/~cajndave/Acylinder.jpg
http://www.darksavior.net/~cajndave/othercyl.jpg

[delawarerick]

Is that chrome flaking? Rick

[CDave]

Damn if I know. I do know the cylinders are scared. The guy I bought the motor from said he replace the chrome bore powerhead with a fishin' powerhead. It sure looked chrome to me.
But I only have experience with chrome on compressors so I'm not sure.

[TD]

Stick a magnet on the inside wall. If it doesn't hold its chrome, if it does bore the cyls and put new pistons in it. Looks to me like the pistons are too loose but then I'm not really a mechanic.
TD

[CDave]

I've already reinstalled the heads and new head gaskets.

Can these gaskets be used over?

Edit: After looking at some picks of BP's it looks like I do have the oval port fishin' motor.:confused:

[Sparkroost]

Check out this link

http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tt/t230338.htm

[Dave S]

The first pict looks the worst, it seems to be scoring, migth be a problem in the future. The minor scoreing I would not be worried about, 2.4s show that kinda marking on the thrust side of the pisten. They are all time bombs anywhey.:D **** take it apart and check it out, the only gasket you will need is the mid and reed gasket other than the heads, which you can reuse if desperate, but I would not. Just use red Locktite on the rod bolts. :D

[us1]

You have some heat problems or piston clearance problems. What kind of pistons are in that thing.

[CDave]

Originally posted by us1
You have some heat problems or piston clearance problems. What kind of pistons are in that thing.

I don't know, I bought this engine from someone else.

Why do I keep thinking everyone is as honest as me? :confused:

My plain is to get a 2.5 to put on this BP mid.
But my Z71's "heavy duty" rear differental decided to bite the dust on the way to the Allison Rally. Sad when a heavy duty rear diff dies towing an Allison. Once agian I bought used. :(

So now the cash is tight and I am hopeing to make it until Oct with this powerhead. As I'm gonna get a new truck, FORD, and go from there.

Now back to the topic at hand,
All I can say is since I've owned this outboard it has been run 40:1 with Merc Premium and now Penn Syn. Water pressure has always been 10psi+, new water pump. Most of the time is below 5K RPM with short, Less than 60sec, burst to 6.5-7K RPM.

From the lack of crosshatch in the cylinders, I can see something strange is afoot at the Circle K.

[us1]

Thats the problem. 10 lbs of water presure. You should have 25 to 30 with that motor.

[CDave]

Originally posted by us1
Thats the problem. 10 lbs of water presure. You should have 25 to 30 with that motor.

It's got the washer in the thermostat housings. Other than that I really don't know. I did add the rubber hose diverters in the block today. I do know the piss hose, 3/8ths, pisses like crazy.

I'm thinking the pervious owner bought a fishin' shortblock and added all the chrome bore stuff to it.

[us1]

If its a stock 200 it should have the thermostats and popet in it or it wont last too long. It will run too cold. If the popet has been removed it still need 15 lbs minumum or it will melt.

[Jay Smith]

I agree with John with the carbon build up on the piston crown you are certainley not lean , I would also say either an oil or water related problem , the lack of either or !

[CDave]

Thanks for the time and input John and Jay!!!

Where is that popet located at?
Could I put a orifice in the outlet hose to up the water pressure or is that the wrong way to do it?


This outboard is/was a BP. The previous owner smoked the chrome bore and said he put a Fishin powerhead on it.

Here are a couple of pics of the engine, if that helps any.
http://www.darksavior.net/~cajndave/carbsL.JPG
http://www.darksavior.net/~cajndave/carbsR.JPG

[us1]

I would install a popet and thermostats and your problems should be over. Mercury’s biggest problem with race cooling systems is they run too cold. I have never had a motor that didn't run too cold. There is nothing wrong with the stock 200 cooling system. I just can figure out why everyone wants to modify it to cool better. Running cold destroys the motor and makes less power. Only if you are turning over 7000 RPM should you look at cooling alternatives.

[CDave]

I'll go get me the thermos and popet. Thanks for the time.

[us1]

Which exhaust plate are you running?

[CDave]

I have no idea.

[us1]

Try to find out if its the twp piece or the one piece. The popet and thremostats will not work with a one piece.

[CDave]

Oh, I have the one piece exhaust adpt.

Is this what you are talking about?

[us1]

You can not use a popet and thermostats with a one-piece plate like yours. If this were mine I would block the popet dump tube, install 1/8 SS fender washers in the heads. Then I would pull the pistons and see what they are also micing the bores for taper and out of round. Some of the off brand pistons I have seen are .002 ior.003 too big. This could be the problem in conjunction with running too cold.

[CDave]

OK, where is this popet dump tube at? The washers in the engine now are 1/2" hole. So I need to pull those and install 1/8" hole washers, correct?

Looks like I get to take apart my first 2 stroke outboard sooner than I had planned. First my truck breaks and now this. Damn this vacation went south quick.

[us1]

1/2 inch!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow that poor motor:D Take a picture of the switch boxes and let me see it. I'll tell what to do from there.

[CDave]

Here are the pics.

[CDave]

Another pic

[us1]

The popet is under the switch boxes. The thing with the hose on it.

[CDave]

Gotcha, thanks agian.

[O/B Dude]

US1, I think his motor may be overheating. He has 1/2" hole washers in the t-stats so it is dumping alot of water before going thru the heads. Then look at the poppet dump hose. Its hooked up to the fitting behind the flywheel instead of dumping as its supposed to. Remember when I had mine hooked up that way and it ran hot? You told me to what to do..... I plugged the fitting behind the flywheel and ran the poppet dump hose out of the cowl....problem solved.

Hey CDave, what head temp are you getting? I see you have 1 head temp sender on the starboard head. When did you last change the water pump impeller?
OBD

[CDave]

Changed the impeller about a month ago. Not sure on the water temp, I have no gauge.

[O/B Dude]

Get a gauge. A cheap one is $25 and is better than nothing. You need one. Also, it looks like your water pressure sending hose is hooked to a "T" in the poppet hose. I am thinking this may give a lower reading than it should. The fitting at the top will read full pressure, but the other end of the hose is hooked to the poppet cover. If there is no poppet valve, the hose is effectively dumping into the exhause adaptor and draining into the center section. I cant figure whether the adaptor cavity may have lower pressure that the block would. I am thinking it might because of the drain holes. I would make sure the poppet is gutted, make the popped hose exit the cowl, and hook the water ressure sender to the fitting behind the flywheel.
OBD

[O/B Dude]

See how my poppet cover dump hose exits outside the cowl..... You cant run a poppet with a hiperf 1 pc plate. Take the t-stats out too and run 1/8 or 3/16" hole, S/S washers. You can put a restrictor plug in the end of the poppet dump to make it run warmer, or leave it open to run cooler.

[CDave]

OK, I just installed my other heads, small hole washers, blocked the fitting on top of the block and ran it on the hose. Black heads 120psi, other heads 125psi. Gotta get the black ones to Jay to get cut for 145psi.

I got 121deg F, at the top of the head, with my rayteck heat gun. 115F at the spark plug. Runnin' on the hose.

[O/B Dude]

That sounds about right. Its hard to get any heat on the hose but when I do, I get 110-120 tops. Did you have the poppet dump exiting the cowl, or did you plug it? Plugging it is about the same as running to the top block fitting. I tends to run hotter. Take the boat out and run it, and see what temps you get out on the water under a load.

[us1]

1/2 washers will make the motor run very cold and most likely cold seize. The popet hose you are talking about is the balance hose to the top of the block, not a dump hose. It’s on the incoming side of the water jacket. If he cuts that and puts it out the cowl the motor will over heat for sure. This hose is not a dump hose.

[us1]

Dont run the boat with the popet balance hose dumping out the cowel or the cyclinders will look worse than they do now.

[O/B Dude]

US1, I got to thinking about what you said regarding the mods I did...plugging the t-stat housings so all water goes thru the heads. I decided to install dump hoses going into a Y from the t-stats and run 1/8" washers. This way, it will build more heat by draining off some water before it goes thru the heads. (I can plug it with a bolt to force all water thru the heads for more cooling) So if a bigger hole washer is put in, it will run hotter, not cooler...correct? Thats because it bleeds off more water before it goes thru the heads. The 2.4BP and 2.5 Hi perf have no poppet, and dump water thru the poppet cover hose. Hooking that hose to the top of the block made mine overheat. You can't hook that hose there with a 1 pc adaptor plate...that only works on 2 pc plates because there is no poppet dump passage to the center section on a 1 pc plate. Running the hose to the top is like plugging the hose off. There is going to be very little flow thru there because the water moves from the top of the block to the exhaust adapter dump cavity. My motor would get over 190* that way. I plugged the top fitting and ran the hose out of the cowl, and instantly my water temps were at 135-140 and head temps 165-180. When I had a 2 pc plate on it, and the hose was hooked up to the top block fitting, it ran fine. It was only when I installed that 1 pc plate (blocked off the poppet dump passage) that the motor overheated. Far be it from me to argue outboards with you because you are the master:D , but his having a 1 pc plate changes things a bit. He cant run 2 pc cooling on a 1 pc plate. Comments?
Thanks,
Sean OBD

[us1]

Bigger washers will let the heads run a little hotter but the block will run so cold it can seize. Cdaves problem is his motor is seizing, things look to me like he has too much cooling. He has a 200 block, the hose that runs to the top of the block is not the popet hose. He doesn’t have a popet hose. The hose you are talking about running out of the cowl is the balance hose taped into the input side of the cooling system. He has to first determine if his block has the passage way through to the input side of the cooling system or it will blow the motor if he runs it like that.

[O/B Dude]

John,
I am not sure I am understanding. The 2.4 200 is supposed to run a poppet, t-stats, a balance hose to get rid of air pockets, and a 2 piece plate that has a dump passage under the poppet leading to the driveshaft housing. The 2 pc plate dumps water thru the t-stats, four 1/4" holes behind the tuner, and a large poppet dump passage under the poppet valve. Since he has a 1 pc plate that completely blocks the poppet dump passage, he expells water thru the t-stat housings and thru the two 1/8" holes in the bottom of the adaptor plate leading to the driveshaft housing. The rather large poppet dump passage has been blocked by the 1 pc plate. This cuts down the amount of water being dumped. Adding a poppet dump hose will increase the water flow to what it was with 2 pc plate...effectively creating a poppet dump passage, but exiting the cowl rather than exiting to the driveshaft housing. I agree, 1/2 washers are a bit large and will cool the block more while heating the heads, but since the poppet dump passage has in effect, been plugged, total water flow has been obstructed. This should make the motor run hot. He either needs to run a 2 pc plate, or completely convert to Hi-perf 1 pc plate cooling. Also, he needs to see what the temp is on the river rather than on the hose. That will tell if its too cool or too hot. What are your thoughts?
No disrespect intended, I'm just unsure if we are talking about the same scenario.

[CDave]

John, what I did was melt closed the branch of the tee that the "lower" hose attaches to. In effect blocking the lower hose.

I'm gonna get the correct fittings to plug the bottom hole and a 90 for the water pressure guage sensing line at the top of the block.

[us1]

O/B Dude I am talking about the block not the plate.


CDave That should be ok, you have to do something to get that thing running hot enough. You must slow down the water flow through the block.

[O/B Dude]

Block not the plate? I know you are taking about the passage in the block but since he has a 1 pc plate, it doesnt matter. The passage hits a dead end. I think I'll sit this one out.

[Dave S]

The hose that runs from the top of the V to the poppet cover is used on stock motors to bypass some of the water from the block, and dump it into the poppet system.Once the motor speed is up the perssure closes this route and the water has to go thru the block and themo's. The hole on some 150 v6s, by the poppet works the same, by passing the block, until the poppet opens closeing that route. The poppet works in two manners, one as a pressure valve and a warm up feature.

[CDave]

Originally posted by Dave S
The hose that runs from the top of the V to the poppet cover is used on stock motors to bypass some of the water from the block, and dump it into the poppet system.Once the motor speed is up the perssure closes this route and the water has to go thru the block and themo's. The hole on some 150 v6s, by the poppet works the same, by passing the block, until the poppet opens closeing that route. The poppet works in two manners, one as a pressure valve and a warm up feature.

But this is a 2.4 200 Fishin' powerhead that replaced the original Chrome Bore powerhead, this is a BP with a Fishin' powerhead.

The rest of this outboard is 100% original BP, OC276121. Although I did have the 2 hole CLE modifed with a Bob's Big Foot nose cone.

[Dave S]

Read OB dudes ansewer on the 2nd padge at the bottom as far as the poppet goes, If the poppet is gutted. I don't know where the water goes out on a 1 peace adator, so I don't know what to tell you about that.

[CDave]

Thanks y'all, I've got it setup now like John said.

[us1]

I wouldn't run it with those pistons like that too much or it will do major damage. You might be able to save the cylinders now.

[CDave]

Originally posted by us1
I wouldn't run it with those pistons like that too much or it will do major damage. You might be able to save the cylinders now.

OK, guess it's time to do a disassmbly/inspection.

Too much stuff breaking at the same time. Truck, boat motor and now the motherboard on my comp is going south. Oh and my A/V reciever crapped out this weekend too.:eek:

[Dave S]

You need to chang your avatar to a HAPPY FACE.:D :D Then you may have better luck.