I can't believe no one can solve this cooling problem

[WATERWINGS]

Or in this case warming problem..............

I'm sure some of you have been keeping up with my "nightmare", but I can't believe that there are guru's out there that can't tell me how to make STOCK 2.4 with a two piece base plate warm up over 120*........

Keep in mind, THIS IS A STOCK 2.4!!!!!!!

Only hogged out exhaust chest with stock heads, (for now)

This motor should not need to be dry stacked..........ITS A STOCK MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

I have been keeping very good notes, (with each combination)and can answer any questions, that you need to know about water pressure, (with each combination), head temp, (with each combination), water surface temp, and even EGT (with each combination)(although that probably has nothing to do with this)

I can answer more questions than you can ask,(about how I am set up), so let me have it, make me proud!!!

I am sure someone has had this happen to them before, and solved the problem.......

Thanks for any help you can give me.........and STV Keith, with this running to cold problem!!

John Mason

[stvhelm]

forget the gauge. how long can you leave your hand pressed on the side of the block after the engine has been running a while? and do both sides feel equal?

[Talon2.5]

have you read greg moss's cooling mods?

you could cut off a few vanes on the impeller and see if that helps, it's more common to have one run hot than to have one run cold, so not many folks have had to think and research "backwards" on cooling, i can only wish to have your "problem" ;)
http://www.screamandfly.com/home/engine_tech/moss_marine_cooling/mercury_v6_cooling.htm

[H2Onut]

I dont know but a few ? come to mind,

Where are you measuring water temp at ? perhaps check temp at a diiferent location. Have you verified the thermometer is accurate ? It lloks like you are reading egts but this is exaust temp correct ? have you taken actual head temps. (infared thermometer aiming at combustion chambers. Like I said I dont know jack. but its the simple stuff that gets ya.

[--1fast one--]

1

[--1fast one--]

you have mail !

[RUNWME]

John,
I had just put a waterpump in the lowerunit you are borrowing. I have a stock CLE that runs warmer temps then the unit with Bobs cone does.

If you want, tomorrow we can switch it out and you can use the stock CLE off jennifers cougar.

I am interested in which one is faster anyway, CLE with bobs cone or stock CLE.

IF you want, I will bring her boat down there and make a couple high speed passes then we can switch lower units. The stock one will warm your engine abit and we can see which is faster at same time.

I was going to do the test one day after you return the lower unit
anyway but could do it in the morning just as easily.

Let me know, I can go either way

David

[WATERWINGS]

Both guages, (head temp, in the recess on each head) have been checked by putting the senders into water heated with a torch, and backed up with a digital thermometer, and infrared thermometer, both, (all) are within 5 degrees of each other.

With the infrared thermometer, I get readings on the heads, in different places, around 115 to 120, but don't want to hold my hand on them to long.

I have read Greg Moss's cooling mod article, is this different from "dry stacking"?

I have the one hole poppet, and have no line comming off of it.

I am running thermostats and poppet at this time, but have tried every combonation, and still can't get over 120*

I was suggested to put a hose clamp on the hose running from the nose cone to the L/U and restrict the incoming water, good idea, but when running, the temp is still just barely over 120*

When I make a 5000 RPM run and stop and let it idle in gear for around 1/8 mile, it will heat up enough to make the port thermostat open up for about 45 sec to 1 min, but not the starboard.

If letting more water out of the dump hoses causes the motor to run warmer, then why do the theromstats open when it gets hot??? It would seem to work backwards if that was the case:confused:

[WATERWINGS]

Cool David,

I noticed last year, that each gearcase I would switch, had different pressures and cooling caracteristics.

Bobs (2) had much more pressure than, say a two hole CLE, or the two hole nose cone on Joe's gearcase

[--1fast one--]

did you check the e-mail?

[RUNWME]

Originally posted by WATERWINGS
Cool David,

I noticed last year, that each gearcase I would switch, had different pressures and cooling caracteristics.



Ok, see you in morning around 11 weather permitting if that sounds good to you.

I am looking forward to seeing which is faster anyway, which do you think would be the better testing vehicle?
STV or Cougar (as far as speed results between the lower units)

[WATERWINGS]

David, I would say the STV would be the faster one for sure, but you are more familier with how the Cougar runs and handles.

1 fast one, yes, I did, I will try to call as soon as I can, Thanks!

[us1]

That’s easy. If you have a popet and thermostats and its running too cold you are dumping water someplace you shouldn’t be. Such as a modified two piece tuner. Either modified by someone or cracked/rotted through inside the midsection.

[Wile E. Coyote]

What size are the dump hoses off your heads. One of the problems I have had with my 2.4 was the diameter. The hoses were 3/8 id. I had gone the same route as you. I wound up playing with smaller inserts to restrict the flow of water down through the hoses. If it passes through too fast there is no heat transfer from block to water. If it passes through too slow the same is true. I wound up restricting them down to almost 1/4 and it works fine now.....

[Dave S]

That way there are no bad feelings.:D I never had such problems, but then I don't have but 2 gauges in" EL CHEEPO" boat, one in the cooler for temp and one on the cooler for beer can count.:D US1's theoy sounds very likely if it is leaking before the poppet.But then you would not get pressure.

[us1]

If had one hole 3/8 inch in dameter in the exhaust adapter it would never open the popet and would run 15 to 20 lbs water presure never getting hot because the thermostats would never open.

[Dave S]

HI US1 , I Never did understand the logic of the Merc cooling system. The themostats seem to be a {patch} they open when hot, bypassing the rest of the head. I like to think of them as air outlet's to keep the block wet. The major water flow goes thru the block, then heads then dump's out the poppet, cooling as it goes. The water cools the middel V first and the most, ITs first entery.It then warms up in the exhaust plate, so as not to take away too much temp from the cly's.It's last deed is to cool the heads.That is where I get lost, If the themo's open, you are bypassing the rest of the head. If they are shut the water has to go down the head , cooling as it goes. I would think, the more you dump at the themo's the hotter the head will be.

[us1]

That’s true, that’s why we use the 1/8 fender washers just to let out enough water to keep the head hot enough to make good power and also to let out trapped air. When under way the popet opens and fully cools the heads. At idle a small amount of water is let out the exhaust adapter plate to keep the heads from over heating. The water has to find its way in the exhaust divider pretty fast or it will melt or crack, there’s a lot of heat there.

[Dave S]

How come you not burrnin up the town.?:confused: Sittin at this damm tubbe anserinn stupid questions, like me.:)

[us1]

Its only 5:30. You mean there's something else out there other than boats.:confused: :eek:

[WATERWINGS]

Dave S, I'm with you, if dumping more water before the heads makes more heat, why do the thermostats open when the heads get hot??

It seems backwards from what everyone says about a merc.

John, what size holes are in the 1/8" washers? 3/16"?

I have drilled MANY quarters with different size holes, which ones do I want??

I also think I need to remove the poppet valve and install diverters, what say ye??

This last trip out, I removed the plug from the two piece mid plate,(port side, stock fishing motor) and put a dump hose there, it did help some by giving me more heat.

I also had some good advice that has nothing to do with (water) cooling.

I am running the WH-15 carbs off of the last motor I ran.......

7 petal-cross drilled, ported, 150 PSI heads, hogged exhaust chest 2.4, without makeing any changes to the jets.........

now I am running an almost stock, (except for hogged exhaust chest) 2.4.

I am drowning the motor with fuel.........

wouldn't this make the motor cold?????

[Dave S]

You lucky dog, here it's time for lights out and you still see the big red one. Did'nt think of the time zone:rolleyes: Is it true that mercs run latter there?:D

[us1]

Changing washers, adding hoses and removing the popet is not going to fix the leak. Why treat the symptoms when the problem still exists?

[WATERWINGS]

What leak???:confused:

[us1]

Originally posted by us1
That’s easy. If you have a popet and thermostats and its running too cold you are dumping water someplace you shouldn’t be. Such as a modified two piece tuner. Either modified by someone or cracked/rotted through inside the midsection.

[Dave S]

I hope I don't look like a jerk here, but did you cut the poppet at the screw? That would not be good at this stage. If US1 is rite,you may be dumping too much out the poppet, same as a leak. Make sure the poppet is tight to the seat, peressure when you bolt it to the block. You are thinking what I was thinking, too much gas, no heat. Look at the plugs, I know they are had to read. :(

[us1]

I have two question which should clear this up for me. Do the thermostats ever open. What is the water persure at 6000 RPM.

[WATERWINGS]

Yes, the port thermo opens up after I run around 5000-5500, and go back to in gear idle, then closes back in about 30-45 sec.

Starboard never opens.

Water pressure at 5500 is around 30 psi, haven't turned this fresh motor over that yet.

The midplate has not been modified, and has no visible cracks, breaks, or rot.

[us1]

If the themostat opens your water temp is 140 degrees which means the heads are about 180 degrees. If it closes at idle you defenetaly have a leak in the plate or the popet.

[WATERWINGS]

John,

I am reading head temp, (senders in the recesses just below the top sparkplug), the thermo's stay closed while running, and only the port one opens up after I go back to in gear idle for a distance, then it closes back off.

If I was losing water somewhere in the mid plate, would I still have so much water pressure?

Thanks for sticking with me on this one ya'll, I do have other mid plates if I really have to switch this one out, but I would have to re-grind the exhaust passage of the new one to match the block.

If I do pull the powerhead, what should I look for in the way of the leak you spoke of?

[us1]

Yes you would the popet only opens to maitain 25 to 30 lbs. At idle it is closed. If you are leaking water the popet just open less still doing its job of regulating water presure. It could be the popet its self that is leaking. What is the water presure at idle.

[WATERWINGS]

12 to 15 PSI @ idle

[O/B Dude]

12-15lbs at idle? OK, one of 2 things is happening....

Your pressure guage is wrong and reading too high or your poppet is stuck. It may be stuck part open thus it sort of works, but I have never, ever seen that kind of pressure at idle unless the poppet was stuck.;)

[WATERWINGS]

Remove the poppet, & use washers in the themo' housings??

I can't imagine that the mid plates are cracked or rotted, the "LOOK" fine.

And they are stock, except for matching the ports (exhaust) where the block is bigger due to hogging the exhaust chest.:confused:

[us1]

Ok

[WATERWINGS]

OK,

to be honest, I never ran the motor in the big river without thermo's and poppet, I should try that to, being that I have tried everything else.

[WATERWINGS]

Got a little more heat in the motor this weekend, but still not enough.

I put the timing up to 25*, and went down in main jet size to .082, (they were .084)

I know the book calls for .076???, I do have some .080's that I may put in next.

I haven't been able to run WFO yet, so I haven't done a plug/piston top read, but the EGT that I have used for a couple of years, is not reading to high in the midrange.

I am running the WH-15's, (may switch to the 28's) the motor is stock except for the hogged exhaust.

temps are up to 140* or so, after a run, (when idleing in gear) but when running, they go back down to 125 or so.

Still running with thermo's and poppet, May remove them next (again) and go into the big river and run a distance, and not just a short ways up the creek past my house, like the original run with the stats and poppet.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Waterwings, not to be a smartass or anything but how much temp do you want? That seems to be right on to me. If my motor runs anywhere near 180 at anytime theres a problem.....it always runs between 130 and 150...for the last 6 years or so anyway.....I dont think I'd push the envelope anymore, just my .02

[WATERWINGS]

no smartass taken,

I was told that a to cold motor is just as bad as to hot, I am still in breakin mode, and STV Kieth had to re-ring his fresh motor due to no heat.

It will warm up after a run, when back to idle in gear, but as soon as I am cruising again... back down to 125*

[WATERWINGS]

John, If I do pull the powerhead, what should I look for as far as the leak you spoke of, (other than poppet leak)

[WATERWINGS]

DEAD THREAD, (I beat it to death)