The "non commercial" 300r thread !

[Chaz]

Go head chop the original , nothing for sale on this one ... :D

If you don't like what's said ... don't read it .. interesting concept .. ;)




As far as pork chops and shrimp, I think it’s funny :D There’s worse things to be called.

I did make a few contacts, and have confirmed at least 5 SuperStock boats committing to putting 300Rs on for 2022 season. They do have to make that decision so they get them in time, so it’s a commitment today for the future. That’s a large percentage of the boats that ran 90%+ of this year’s schedule. Just so we’re clear, no one is being forced to run them, there’s still enough freedom in this country that they can choose which power to run, and over 60% of the regular class runners are choosing 300Rs of their own free will, knowing they have to keep them 20” engines, to compete with the current 300XS 15” engines.

What do they know that you don’t?

I almost forgot about the shrimp heads , do they even make them any more... ???
Seems like when they come out with something new , they are quick to drop last years model .. :rolleyes:

Something I don't know ... nawww , not so much.

4600cc - 3200cc = 1400cc looks like the porkchop is almost half again as big .

V-8 has more swept piston area than a V-6 .. well more like a V-7 , 6 to go , the other a belt driven drag on HP. Maybe they should mandate that a porkchop run a catalytic converter to constipate it even more .. fair is fair .. right ;)

I raced in one form or the other for 36 years of my life. The other parts I was too young or now too old. My racing is thru others today from my shop. One thing I can say about check writin racers is that if there is a plastic pile of dog **** Velcro'd to the hood or deck of the winning entry week after week .. they will all have a plastic pile of dog **** on their hood or deck before long. :eek: :)

So lets say the 20 year old Toyota tech on a stick winds up being the dominating combo .. will the powers that be "allow" racers to run an unrestricted 3.0-3.2 format ... No I truly doubt it .. can't have home brew 2 stroke's out run , out turn the mighty porker .. ;)

PS .. you mentioned 20" porkchops . I can just see after everyone gets a pair of 20's .. Suprize , we came out with a new 15" race model .. No I'm sorry , we don't offer a conversion kit. You'll have to buy a couple more . Would be smart to keep the pair of 20's .. since we don't have "spare parts" available .. but we have decals .. :rolleyes:

Sound about right ... ???

[Brad Zastrow]

I do not see a lot of incentive for Mercury to build a 15" 300R so a few race boats can run them. The racers voted and are choosing to run with the new motor. End of story.

[moatorbotin]

Dirtbikes were brought up in the other thread that got poofed.

I wish Merc like KTM and other manufacturers still made a small two stroke for the hydrostream, allison, mirage, stv contingency. I know we all say the EPA killed it, and it did. But I wonder if it could have been done like the auto industry (I don't know the exact rules here so my statement is a pure generalization) where you get credits for selling economical cars (4 Strokes) so that you can sell the higher emissions and gas guzzler cars/trucks (2.5 280's)

I know I can wish in one hand and **** in the other, and I know which one will fill up faster, but I can still wish!

[David]

I don’t think the EPA killed 2 strokes. I looked up the rules for emissions and they don’t seem to have changed since 2010 but maybe I looked at the wrong rule. BRP stopped making two strokes last year as they were not profitable. Everyone else shifted to four strokes earlier.

It doesn’t really matter as the choices now are 4 stroke or used. I would be quite happy with a 300R on a Liberator or Tuff. From what I see the 300R will outrun the 300XS

I put my own money on a pair of end of era two strokes. 200XS and 150 HO. No regrets. These motors suit my smaller boats.

[moatorbotin]

I did not specifically mean the EPA 100% killed them, just that the emissions they were imposing made it cost prohibitive for manufacturers to continue pursuing the R&D for them.

[Chaz]

I do not see a lot of incentive for Mercury to build a 15" 300R so a few race boats can run them. The racers voted and are choosing to run with the new motor. End of story.

Not sure it was brought to a vote .. but the rules allow for the porkchop to be run in 2022.

As far as a 15" mid .. Your right, they wouldn't do it "just for the racers" . I mean , look how much they did for the class when it moved from 3 boats with 280's to running the 300xs .... NOTHING .
If they did come out with a 15 .. it would only be because they got word that a privateer was coming to market with one , and they know how many 15" mids were done for the 3.0/3.2 while they sat on their ****'s .

BTW , since you couldn't answer why Merc wanted $1100+ for $10 worth of O-rings for your three laser type throttle body's ... I went straight to the head of racing with the question ... Best Michael Jackson moon walk I seen in a while ... :)

EPA KILLED 2 STROKES ....

Dead as a door nail. They are lawyers that were never voted into office . They don't come out and say .. "I demand you stop making those now" They put into law, noise (music to some) mandates. Smokeless operation laws. Gas mileage, hydrocarbon laws that they know are all unrealistic .. Oooppss , that model failed , try again.
Did any of you vote for any of those laws ... I know I didn't .

Notice I asked ... If the porkchops become the dominant combo in 2022 , will the OPA open up the SS/S class to run unrestricted 3.0/3.2L 2 strokes ... crickets ;)

End of story ..... Ppppffftttt , my ***** , it's just begun .. :thumbsup:

[Lake rat Skater]

It's a stock 300xs powerhead vs a stock 300r motor, why would they let them modify 1 and not the other?

And yes the stock class voted and the majority decided to allow the 300r as an option.

[Chaz]

I said : If the nearly 50% larger displacement porkchop proved to be the dominant combo .. would they allow an unrestricted 3.0/3.2L powerhead .. ???

Intent : To promote parity for the 40% who have not signed on .

I never entered a race I felt I couldn't win. I lost way more than I won , but I knew I had a level playing field when I went thru the gates . How long would you want to be cannon fodder .. ???

[Chaz]

And its called "Super Stock". Changing just the can for a shorty , fall's way below the general rules packages from where they borrowed the nomenclature.

Going by the wording of their "general" rules , the can shouldn't be legal . So what's so "super" about the class ... ???

http://www.oparacing.org/rules


Digging deeper into the rulebook .. you can cut the muffler off to fit inside the 15" can .. :D

Then it appears that they amended the rules to allow a tuner .. ;)

However they have as of yet .. to produce a printed rules package for 2022 and post it on their site .. :smiletest:

https://files.secure.website/wscfus/8442181/28810984/opa-rule-book-2021.pdf


2. Engine specs (Twin Engines)• Approved Engine: Mercury 300xs, 2006-current, 300 hp, 3.2L (193 CID) with Sportmaster lower unit.• Cowlings: May be a light weight facsimile of the production cowling. Manufacturers decals must be on cowling.• Powerhead: Must remain stock as produced by the manufacturer. The year must be declared prior to the race.• Balancing and Blueprinting is not allowed. Balancing and Blueprinting shall be defined as (but not limited to) “cleaning -up”, “bringing to spec”, removing or adding any metal or any other material to balance any reciprocating parts. Media blasting and bead blasting not allowed.• Compression ratio: May not be altered • ECU boxes: May not be modified or reprogrammed. Maximum RPM allowed 6400. Mercurycertified ECU boxes will be issued Prerace and collected Postrace.• Flywheels: No modifications or lightening is allowed. • Reeds: Any reeds are allowed. Stock reed cages must be used. • Lower unit: Must remain stock as produced by the manufacturer. Any OEM gear ratio is allowed. Blueprinting and Trueing are not allowed. Media blasting and bead blasting not allowed.3. Engine modifications: The center section/mid section may be converted to the Mad EFI 15” offshore (3L top to 3L bottom). The exhaust system must remain stock as produced by the manufacturer however the “Muffler” must be cut off to fit inside 15” center section.• Updating of equipment: Allowed• Backdating of equipment: Not Allowed • After Market Tuner: Allowed• Engine modifications: The center section/mid section may be converted to the Mad EFI 15” offshore (3L top to 3L bottom). The exhaust system must remain stock as produced by the manufacturer however the “Muffler” must be cut off to fit inside 15” center section. • Updating of equipment: Allowed • Backdating of equipment: Not Allowed

[CUDA]

I bet they would sell a LOT more 15'' than these


https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=494751&d=1634317412

[Chaz]

It's a stock 300xs powerhead vs a stock 300r motor, why would they let them modify 1 and not the other?


After thinking about it a spell , your right . Stock for stock is the best way to go.


However ... :D

The smaller displacement motors should get a pretty substantial weight break. After all the porky's have a 2800cc advantage. (the 3.2's are really 3180cc so its a bit more) Almost another ............ third motor back there .. :o

I was a bit let down to see the 280's written out of the rule book. I was under the impression that most just moved away from them on their own .. :cool:

I do hope that if Scott Porta chooses to race or bring his 2.5 mid / 3.2 adapter / flanged cowl to market , there will be a provision written in the rules to allow it. The Shadow Pirate ran a set for a while .. so I got to see the parts up close and personal ... Typical of the Professor .. beautiful , well thought out jewelry. :thumbsup:

[HydroSkreamin]

After thinking about it a spell , your right . Stock for stock is the best way to go.


However ... :D

The smaller displacement motors should get a pretty substantial weight break. After all the porky's have a 2800cc advantage. (the 3.2's are really 3180cc so its a bit more) Almost another ............ third motor back there .. :o

Last I checked, the 3.2L 300XS is 3.2L/rev. The 4.57L 300R is 2.285/rev;), 4.57L for two revs to complete the combustion cycle for all 8 of its cylinders. It’s an odd work schedule, working every other day. This allows them to properly rest for the next scheduled work day, resulting in a longer lasting life…and because they actually have time to do their job efficiently, doing more work with less pay (for the sake of our conversation, let’s call this pay…fuel)

So why would you want to weight penalize the “porky”? Isn’t it heavy enough for you? Isn’t it already at a disadvantage, being a 4-stroke, being “heavy”, and only running on 4 cylinders every rev? If they make the same propshaft HP, then physics should already have this covered, correct? It’s important to remember that for the 300XS, for every minute at 6400 RPM, there’s 38,400 explosions pushing the crank, turning the prop, and on the 300R at the same exact 6400 RPM, there’s 25,600 explosions doing the same amount of work…let that sink in for a minute…

I don’t know why it’s a big deal to put two 300HP engines, from the same manufacturer, in the same class. Realize both of the powerheads were developed by the same company (but probably two different eras). Where are the other manufacturers of 300 HP engines? Certainly OMC/BRP would have been invited to the party over the years, but I’m guessing the racers chose otherwise. The same could be said for Yamaha and Suzuki. None of the manufacturers other than Merc offered a surfacing case, so clearly the other manufacturers weren’t considering our needs.

At least there is a PRODUCTION alternative to be able to race, and the racers have chosen to allow it. Would I prefer a 15”? Of course! And I’m not going to defend pricing or availability of parts. This is a problem in every facet of life today, unfortunately.

[HydroSkreamin]

I do hope that if Scott Porta chooses to race or bring his 2.5 mid / 3.2 adapter / flanged cowl to market , there will be a provision written in the rules to allow it. The Shadow Pirate ran a set for a while .. so I got to see the parts up close and personal ... Typical of the Professor .. beautiful , well thought out jewelry. :thumbsup:

You are absolutely correct, Scott Porta does not do anything half-@ssed. It looks sharp (shrimp?:D)

[JPEROG]

I have said it a thousand times before. Anyone that doesn't appreciate the fact that we have Mercury's racing division to support our hobby is missing the boat. Not only have they proven to make the best products for us but the fact is that without them, we wouldn't have anything that ran within 30 mph of what a modern day twin cat outboard is doing today. There have been several recent attempts with other product and they have found out just how strong their midsections are not.

My guess is that Scott will end up in a bracket class with his stuff being "too controversial" based on certain people not being able to keep up with his constant change and always feeling at a disadvantage in S class. If you remember back when he spent all of the time and money to develop and produce the exhaust plate that allowed a 3L power head to be utilized with 2.5 parts that most teams already had and it was outlawed (rules read 3L top to 3L bottom). Then his brackets got taken out, as were the tunnel tabs recently, and I am guessing that if his modified cowl and base show an advantage that they too will be added to the outlaw list. It really makes me question why guys don't just go the poker runs and enjoy the "less controversial" group of performance boaters.

Racing is absolutely wonderful for the spectator but all of the work and money that goes into a boat and travel for a half an hour show on Sunday 6 or a 8 times a year makes no sense unless you are in a position of really strong personal wealth or have sponsorship that covers it.

Joe

[engineermike]

Last I checked, the 3.2L 300XS is 3.2L/rev. The 4.57L 300R is 2.285/rev;), 4.57L for two revs to complete the combustion cycle for all 8 of its cylinders…

Lets extrapolate this a step further since the 4-stroke has a clear displacement-per-cycle disadvantage, and say “to make things fair” they should be allowed to run boost. My math says to put the 2.285 l/rev at the same effective displacement as the 3.2 would require roughly 6 psi boost. I think the 450r runs in that neighborhood so if displacement really were the end-all rule then it’s obvious that the 450r should be allowed to compete with the 300xs, but would also obviously need to be given a weight break to even things up even more. What’s fair is fair.

Of course the above is in jest. But while we’re talking tech (finally), I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that the displacement-advantaged 2-strokes suffer from a truncated power stroke because it’s combined with the exhaust stroke. This cuts it off far short and releases valuable energy out the exhaust port and robs from its displacement-per-cycle advantage. In an effort to be fair, we would need to limit the boost of the above 4-stroke. It would take a bit of math to ensure the boost is offset appropriately to account for the % of the power stroke that is at play in each configuration.

Or we can forget the above nonsense and just let them run stock vs stock as the class name implies, and let the cards fall where they may.

[FUJIMO]

...wildcard: boosted dfi 2 cycle...

[Z06man]

...wildcard: boosted dfi 2 cycle...

Now you are just stirring it up.

[engineermike]

…boosted dfi 2 cycle...

The problem with that is that a 2-cycle can’t trap the charge to allow pressurization over ambient. The cylinder is open-ended when the intake port is open, so it can’t build pressure. With a 4-stroke, the exhaust valve is closed for most of the intake stroke giving the pressurized air nowhere to go so it has to build pressure (and density) in the cylinder.

The only way I can see it working on a 2-stroke to any real advantage is with turbocharging where the exhaust pressure rises as boost increases, thereby holding it in on both ends of the engine, if you will. But anyone who’s ever attempted to balance pressure in a turbo system knows it would take a ton of engineering time and experimentation to get it working properly and at that’s just at wot. And even if it does all work out, we’re a looong way from “stock” at that point.

[FUJIMO]

Now you are just stirring it up.
...lol..i know. just mess'n with u guys... (mike, it does work, its been done, at most all rpm's - its just not a cost affective/marketable product)

[engineermike]

...... (mike, it does work, its been done, at most all rpm's - its just not a cost affective/marketable product)

Which are you referring to? Super or turbocharging?

[FUJIMO]

...august 2nd, 1984...bill correia, using a standard land & sea turbocharged v-6(mercury 200), posted the fastest top speed(130.50 m.p.h) ever recorded for an outboard powered v-hull.** **official NEBA certified flying 1/4 mile trap speed. (the boat was an allison.)

[engineermike]

Yea, I didn’t say impossible just harder than most could imagine. Ski-doo makes the turbo sled as well, but a lot can be done with a multi-discipline oem design team and a couple years time.

[JPEROG]

BRP has the technology but obviously didn't feel the market is big enough to continue the chase on outboards. Here is their production two stroke turbo sled-they work really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjsbE4jnX1Y

Joe

[Capt.Insane-o]

I get to put the fourth prop shaft in one next week. There will be a 28 skater up for sale soon I thinks..

[CUDA]

They also use RAVE valves unlike outboards for more efficiency, 165 HP from 850cc = NICE light powerful.

Wayne Taylor was working on a similar system before he died, been many years I don't remember the specifics.

Wayne was COOL.

Lenco

https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80916&d=1108506945


http://montyracing.com/photo_html/photos/big004.jpg
http://montyracing.com/photo_html/photos/big002.jpg
http://montyracing.com/photo_html/photos/big004.jpg
http://montyracing.com/html/photo.html

[FUJIMO]

I get to put the fourth prop shaft in one next week. There will be a 28 skater up for sale soon I thinks..
...what was that einstein said, about the definition of insanity?...

[CUDA]

Mad Mans power valve project motor that died with him RIP Wayne Taylor

https://www.screamandfly.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=288432&d=1182962504

[Capt.Insane-o]

...what was that einstein said, about the definition of insanity?...


Yeah...well the solution is simple for us fresh water boaters.. other than mercury telling us we are doing it wrong

[JPEROG]

I get to put the fourth prop shaft in one next week. There will be a 28 skater up for sale soon I thinks..

A good set of thru hub props will solve this issue. I shook the hell out of my LCB and thought for sure that I was going to kill it. Went to a thru hub to keep the air off the blades and bingo-problem was solved. If the guy insist on getting rid of it, please give him my number.

Joe
386 527 18fourfive

[CRH1]

BRP produced and sold the 150HP 3 cylinder that utilized the RAVE exhaust system. When the G2 lineup first came out they were advertising the RAVE system for the 300HO. To my knowledge it never made it to market. Curious as to what the design problems were with it.

https://www.wavetowave.com/home/2019/6/13/evinrude-adds-new-midrange-models-the-new-three-cylinder-g2

[HydroSkreamin]

BRP produced and sold the 150HP 3 cylinder that utilized the RAVE exhaust system. When the G2 lineup first came out they were advertising the RAVE system for the 300HO. To my knowledge it never made it to market. Curious as to what the design problems were with it.

In snowmobile and dirt bike applications, they use a really low ash oil and require exhaust power valve cleaning at relatively short intervals. You can imagine if the valve is exercised regularly, they don’t gum up as bad as if it’s run with it closed a lot, with the back side of the valve exposed to raw exhaust flowing on the top of the port.

I can tell you firsthand that it allowed us to lower the clutch engagement on our 10,000 RPM, 220 HP/780cc drag sleds from 5500-6800 (tel:5500-6800) on our normal reed engines to 4500-5500 (tel:4500-5500) on the power valve engines, running in the low 130’s MPH/5.30’s ET in the 1/8th mile on ice.

I think Dave Bush put some on an OMC as well, but I don’t know if he ever ran it.

[mr fun]

is this another pissin contest ? at one time I could piss over the partition between the stalls, fo real :iagree: , dude you need to come to Taveres and just mingle, I'll even buy you lunch , nice little itallion joint with a a sandwich called the " Itallian Job " :thumbsup:. will be there sat pittin for my friend who's running a championship hull w/carbed V6 sponsered by Miller Beer. no 4 strokes in sight . :cool: just don't wear those Hot Pants :nonod: fun out :D

[Chaz]

Lets see if I got this right ... I start a thread and say .. let the two strokes run unrestricted. I am told it's a stock class , why is it ok for one not the other .. ???
Yea .. ok I agree .. then it's two pages of , unrestricted two strokes .. hey make up my mind already .. :D

Skreeeeemin ... Thank you for pointing out the basic differences between a Schnuerle two stroke and a Otto cycle.

Before we go any further .. without looking it up , What is the "fifth cycle" and who came up with the concept ... ???

Two stroke's do have supercharging. Walter Kadden designed it in the early 1950's while working for MZ. Those toboggan's your talking about at least had an evenly spaced, center exit 3 into 1 primary's that provided a bit of port stuffing , but nothing like Kadden's invention.
For the 300xs , Mercury chose a 1920's era log style conduit. A 16" primary , another one 10" and the last one 4" . Add 2" to those numbers , and you have the other side. While the top 4 holes might have somewhat of a dance partner, the bottom two are left to fend for themselves.
As a point of reference ... the set of 911 headers I started tacking together this morning, has a primary length difference of less than a quarter inch.

Those power valves shown above .. are they located on the "roof" or the "floor" of the port .. think before you answer .. :)

Two strokes burn oil. Oil not only kills the octane in fuel it also detonates pretty easily. As evidenced by the "top hat" shaped chambers which stave off detonation, but are nothing to write home about when it comes to power production.

To add insult to injurie , the poor xs has a kompresser , no-no not to boost the crankcase , but to be there as a compression limmiter. Clip the heads past the air pressure and it sends fuel backwards thru the system .. Personally I would be ******* embarrassed to put on a decal that even mentioned "racing".:o It should say "Joan Claybrook C.A.R.B. approved opti-POP special" :)

Six cylinders 3.625" bore . Do the area of a circle math .
Eight cylinders 3.600 bore . Do the area of a circle math.

One fires every 60 degrees
The other , every 90 degrees

The one with more combustion area also has 3/8" more stroke .

The 4 valve head is a Keith Duckworth copy. He started development in 1958 but it didn't prove dominant for another 10 years.
Mercury did good there , they copied a 1968 design.
I would hope for the money they get for them porkies , that they have a bridge piston , thin rings with a Napier second. Some type of crank scraper / windage windows that drain back .. err down from the block .. 1970's GM stuff right there ..

Layed over on their side cam chain's ... marvelous.

Supercharging the porky for S S/S .. If your lookin for a bird on the ground .. it would most likely be easier to go to the welfare office and apply for assistance.

I'll just say , boost is a resistance to flow measurement. Port the head or stretch the duration , boost goes down .. power goes up .. ;)

There so docile .. you can change your name from Smith to Smyth and drive it to PGA National for a round of golf ... Pppffttttttt

[mr fun]

man , now I feel real stupid

[mr fun]

the rest of us are just trying to walk upright , next you gonna bust into newton meeters or what ?

[Chaz]

the rest of us are just trying to walk upright , next you gonna bust into newton meeters or what ?

No brother , I'm just like you. An American .... :thumbsup:

Inch and foot/lbs. have worked for me.

Metric is for those who can't count in fractions 10mm, 11, 12 ... :D

Newton meters are for school "learned" boys who think they can design a better toaster .. yet never grasped the concept of "lefty loosey - righty tighty" used out in the real world. :)

Wentworth , for those who had an ole 441 Beeza, 650 Turnup, etc.
I did like the 70's Cycle magazine Norton 750 Commando girl ... :cheers:

[H2OPERF]

BRP produced and sold the 150HP 3 cylinder that utilized the RAVE exhaust system. When the G2 lineup first came out they were advertising the RAVE system for the 300HO. To my knowledge it never made it to market. Curious as to what the design problems were with it.

The g2 v6 ended up not really needing it due to the amount of low end torque it produces. The early V6 blocks have the extra side exhaust ports behind the sleeve, not sure about the later ones... would be interesting to open them up and see if they will turn up.

[David]

For what it’s worth, the US auto industry is metric. Factory bolt torque specs are in Nm and the part drawings for components are metric.

If I bought a new 4 stroke from Mercury, would it have metric fasteners? I have not turned a wrench on our Etec,, although I do change the fuel filter yearly.

[Chaz]

For what it’s worth, the US auto industry is metric. Factory bolt torque specs are in Nm and the part drawings for components are metric.


Thank you , I rest my case .. :thumbsup:

[Chaz]

all in good " FUN " my new ride is a BMW K1200 RS , bitch will do 35 in 25' . of corse somebody like Pee rog will go " I had one of those but now I've moved on" stumpy little **** . wondering if I put a turbo on it , would be Bitchin :iagree:

Fun .. don't make it personal .. Joe's good peeps , he maybe lost his way a bit .. :D

I'll park out on the skreet by his house and play this wide open .. :eek:

He'll either pull up a lawn chair .. :cheers:

Or holla dayum kids and them noisy ****** ring - dings .. I'm callin the EPA , Stu-gatzu , the other Joe , bootyjege and "I'm that little girl" cam-la's private line ... :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSq33KMwZn8

[Dave S]

Ringa Dings.......:p......Yaaaaaa

[Dave S]

The turbo with no finns........

[Chaz]

Ya can still find the parts .. ya can buy/build a slider clutch, ya can plumb up the juice .. :)
Bang it off the two-step, bump it in the beam ... proof positive not everyone is ready when they let go of the button .. ;)

Chaz=thinkin, I like to ask people where was the tack @ when you passed the tree and the 60' block ... :eek:
Man, I was just tryin to stay alive .. I'll have to look at the data recorder .. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm6xxV6lFS8

[Michael J Giesler]

Fun .. don't make it personal .. Joe's good peeps , he maybe lost his way a bit .. :D

I'll park out on the skreet by his house and play this wide open .. :eek:

He'll either pull up a lawn chair .. :cheers:

Or holla dayum kids and them noisy ****** ring - dings .. I'm callin the EPA , Stu-gatzu , the other Joe , bootyjege and "I'm that little girl" cam-la's private line ... :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSq33KMwZn8

If you put a polaris XCR 800 or a HTG or a Mod Thundercat in one absolutely game over

[Chaz]

Not sure what any of those are .. I seen snow once @ well outside the convention center in Indy. November PRI show. We had to send "Rodnut" thru the back slider window .. so he could kick the door open after the motor/heater was on for about ten minutes .. :eek:

I was raised thinkin that if you got the transfers within 3/8" of the "exit" that a big percentage of the fresh charge would "short circuit" and be lost. I admire the guys who weren't afraid to add additional exhaust conduits over top of the transfers. I would imagine it started with the F-1 GP bikes . The public got it's first taste of modern two strokes with the Honda Elsinore's in the early seventy's. Aprilia and Cagiva carried it into the 90's . Maybe snow~ma~bubbles carried it farther .. sad that the Phukk-tard's with the EPA could close the door to their biggest market and force them to redesign if they they wanted to stay in buiz.

I thought they bumped their head the first time I saw .. I believe it was a Suzuki TM-400 with a bridged exhaust and cats-eyes over the transfers.

http://www.pattakon.com/tempman/Aprilia_RS250_1999_port_map.jpg

They were on the right track .. :thumbsup:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.qpTE9yWsVAXky8U5OjG1BwHaE3&pid=Api&P=0&w=229&h=151

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/aprillia-125-transfers-jpg.87055/

https://i.imgur.com/nv8ZTCol.jpg

No room in a WW2 era designed "modern" outboard to roll the short side to where the columns meet in the middle and rise together ..

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.hKe8MHg0lcKdCp9CDtUR1gHaFj&pid=Api&P=0&w=238&h=180

Now I loved me some RD-350's when I was a kid .. poor ole corked up, slab sided POS cylinders .. :D

https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MjkwWDQwMA==/z/b2gAAOSwIUNXFv0Q/$_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F

I do like the "toridal" chamber .. Yamaha brought to market. High swirl squish velocity .. plug dropped to be in the middle of the action instead of lost in the roof of the chamber .

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/15/75/62/05/toroid10.jpg

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Dl9FxSvwzNIF2ptiBxXmsAHaFz&pid=Api&P=0&w=222&h=175

I liked it so much .. A few weeks ago I "reverse en-gain-eered" it into a set of 300x heads that needed to be plunge cut for a 3.2 crank .. and gain enough volume to run on pump gas ... :leaving:

https://i.imgur.com/0LE9lGol.jpg

[Instigator]

They were getting 200 HP from the 500cc GP bikes in the late ‘80’s before switching to what Kenny Roberts famously called the “diesels”, 900cc then 1000cc four stroke v-twins.

Lets go get a Fed grant to build a “green” 2 stroke.
One the check clears, we change the locks on all the doors then lock you, Gordon, Miami Dave (h2operf) and Dave Bush in the shop for a yr.

We’ll supply all the coffee and pizza you want.

After a yr, we’ll open the doors and see what we have.

No 15% corn syrup, no catalytic converters, etc.

Bolt one in a car/bike w/a CVT trans and stand back ��

BTW, when im down next wk, screw lunch, i want to snoop through your shop!
I think i can still find my way there.

[H2OPERF]

Or maybe you can stick a plug in da middle of each swirl... Gary i'm in as long as a strip club and steak house are next door...lol

[Chaz]

$800,000,000.00 added to the infrastructure bill ... who would notice ... ??? :rolleyes:


No 15% corn syrup, no catalytic converters, etc.

LMAO ... that was great ... ;)

Dave ... that "cup" looks so familiar ... :D

However Chaz = sufferin from ECU envy ... :o :)

https://i.imgur.com/oyMu6p2l.jpg