2.4 200 electrical gremlin

[bullet123]

Motor will idle all day long, as soon as you try to get on plane it loses all electrical power except tilt and trim at motor switch. wait 15 minutes and power will return. Anyone ever run into this?

[bullet123]

I converted it to a 40 amp dual regulator. Would a bad regulator cause this?

[Smalltownbassin]

I've lost a few regs and never experienced this but that still doesn't mean it cant happen. I lost a stator ground connection once that did something similar. The screw came loose so it only worked when it happened to be touching the backplate. Probably not your problem though. Carb or efi? The 15 minute deal is really baffling. A loose connection would restore power as soon as it touches. Sounds like a bad trigger and/or stator to me but hopefully one of the smart ones will shed some light on it. I'm just a redneck that's still learning :cheers:

[bullet123]

seems like a connection or wire must be getting hot and breaking down under a load. this has been kicking my ass for two weeks. im trying to figure out what wire carries the load to everything but the tilt and trim switch at the motor.

[bullet123]

carb motor. I have ran into various stator problems over the years, but never lost all power. Starter solenoid breaking down where all power goes through?

[Smalltownbassin]

There isn't a single wire that does all. Every component has its own connection. Your "hot" wires should all be terminated at the relay on the "hot" post and your grounds should all be grounded wherever is convenient with a good connection. Your trim is also wired to the hot post of the relay so its easy to follow voltage out from there. At what RPM does getting on plane mean for you? 2k? 3k? 4k? Still sounds like the high side of your stator or just a bad trigger. A bad reg will send funny voltage to your battery and pretty easy to rule out as the culprit. Especially on a carb setup.

[Smalltownbassin]

That starter relay could be a burnt marshmallow and not cause this as long as the hot post connections are all good. All your wires look like theyre in tact? No nics? Nothing possibly shorting to ground?

[bullet123]

If I was having a short I would think it would blow the fuse. yesterday got on plane and went about 100 yards and shut down. lost power to everything but trim at motor. waited 20 minutes fired back up. stator doesn't have anything to do with power wires feeding ignition and gauges. atleast I don't think so.

[Smalltownbassin]

Is there a reason you swapped 16 to 40? was it working well with 16? the only difference in the 40 is an extra reg with completely different stator and wheel. Need to measure output voltage of stator. You need a DVA but it can be done with a decent "peaking" meter. Most Fluke meters have the peak setting that you can use for this. If you aren't comfortable with this you can Ohm everything out per the manual to get a good idea if something is an obvious failure but its better to check live voltage. Anyway, from what im gathering here, the big variable is a different stator and flywheel.

[Smalltownbassin]

If I was having a short I would think it would blow the fuse. yesterday got on plane and went about 100 yards and shut down. lost power to everything but trim at motor. waited 20 minutes fired back up. stator doesn't have anything to do with power wires feeding ignition and gauges. atleast I don't think so.

The V-6 outboard ignition system is alternator-driven with distributor-less
capacitor discharge. Major components of the system are the flywheel, stator
assembly, trigger assembly, 2 switch boxes, 6 ignition coils and 6 spark plugs.
The stator assembly is mounted below the flywheel and has 4 capacitor
charging coils. The 4 capacitor charging coils are composed of 2 high speed
and 2 low speed coils - 1 high speed and 1 - low speed coil for each switch
box. The low speed coils provide primary voltage for the switch boxes from
idle to approximately 2500 RPM. The high speed coils provide primary voltage
from 2000 RPM to the maximum RPM the outboard is capable of achieving.
The flywheel is fitted with permanent magnets inside the outer rim. As the
flywheel rotates, the permanent magnets pass the capacitor charging coils
producing AC voltage. The AC voltage is conducted to the switch boxes where
it is rectified and stored in a capacitor.

[Smalltownbassin]

Your stator has EVERYTHING to do with ignition voltage. This is why im asking about RPM at which the problem occurs.

[Smalltownbassin]

The trigger assembly (also mounted under the flywheel) has 3 coils. Each coil
controls the spark to 2 cylinders -1 cylinder each bank. The flywheel also has
a second set of permanent magnets located around the center hub. The
flywheel rotates, the magnets pass the trigger coils producing AC voltage. The
AC voltage is conducted to an electronic switch (SCR) in the switch box. The
switch discharges the capacitor voltage into the ignition coil at the correct time
and in firing order sequence.
Capacitor voltage is conducted to primary side of ignition coil. As this voltage
goes to ground through the primary circuit of the coil, it induces a voltage rise
in the secondary side of the ignition coil. This voltage can increase to
approximately 40000 volts before bridging the spark plug gap to ground.
The preceding sequence occurs once per engine revolution for each cylinder.
Spark timing is advanced or retarded by the movement of the trigger assembly
attached to the throttle/spark arm

If your trigger was the problem it wouldn't be able to advance timing which could cause the issue as well. But there wouldnt be a delay before you could start it up again. Im still leaning on stator except for the time delay you keep describing. That one has me baffled for sure.

[bullet123]

but what does it have to do with the wires feeding my tilt and trim at helm and front of boat? everything loses power. if I lost power to everything but tilt and trim I would be thinking ignition switch. this is why I am baffled.

[Smalltownbassin]

Tilt and trim is supplied straight from your battery connections. So really has nothing to do with ignition at all. Once the motor is running the battery can be disconnected without any effect on the running motor. Sounds like you have two seperate issues. #1 being a motor that wont run past idle #2 being loss of power to your boat from the battery. Maybe its a bad key switch. Simple enough i guess. If you had a weak battery that may explain the wait to start it again due to the voltage drop and recovery time. Im lost at this point but very interested in the solution.

[Smalltownbassin]

Does everything work normally until the motor dies getting on plane? I have no response to your answer. Im just trying to paint the picture in my mind.

[XstreamVking]

If it's an efi, it could be as simple as bad batt terminal and or cable connections to the engine. Or key switch. Sounds like when it wants more power there isn't enough to keep it running.

[bullet123]

works flawlessly until I give it power. seems like the higher output from stator is heating something up and making it lose connection

[bullet123]

I was thinking ign switch until trim on boat quit working at same time. is there a wire they all have in common? red fused wire? maybe hot wire splice on engine harness under tape? It is after fuse because trim at motor switch wont work without fuse

[Smalltownbassin]

I was thinking ign switch until trim on boat quit working at same time. is there a wire they all have in common? red fused wire? maybe hot wire splice on engine harness under tape? It is after fuse because trim at motor switch wont work without fuse

If power is restored after the time delay a fuse isn't the issue on your gage cluster and trim switches. Can you replicate this on muffs out of the water? to make troubleshooting a bit easier?

[Smalltownbassin]

If it's an efi, it could be as simple as bad batt terminal and or cable connections to the engine. Or key switch. Sounds like when it wants more power there isn't enough to keep it running.

I thought the same until he confirmed its a carbie.

[Smalltownbassin]

Did it do this with 16amp system?

[bullet123]

Never tried 16 amp. I took a 2.4 200 rotating assy and converted it to a 2.5 cooling system and 40 amp charging system. Im going to tear engine harness apart or replace and try to find a ground that they all share. I was just hoping somebody on here had ran into something similar

[Smalltownbassin]

I thought the 2.4 came stock with 16 amp? Keep us updated if you find the cause. This is a good one.

[bullet123]

They do come stock with 16 amp. I don't usually mess with anything but 2.5 stuff. I didn't have any 9/16 amp stators, so I went with 40. im real close to changing it to 16 if I cant figure it out

[bullet123]

488440

[bullet123]

488441

[tlwjkw]

that is a very clean, good lookin' motor.. well taken care of! hope ya get it figured out?

small town, they came out with tha 40 in '89 (optional) with tha junk water cooled stuff..

[bullet123]

It was bare 2.4 rotating assy I picked up for $300. It is just a project motor. Bobby V donated promax regulator plate for the cause.

[tlwjkw]

its still awful "clean".. you close ta Ft. Worth.. know bobby very well.. he's a good'un...........

[25two.stroke]

Have you looked at your control box? Like in case its a mechanical thing that shuts off the power? You step on the gas and the throttle plate in the box shorts out the keyed power or the hot supply to the key switch? That would explain the trim still working at the motor switch...it pulls power from somewhere else. Its far-fetched, but possible.

[bullet123]

its still awful "clean".. you close ta Ft. Worth.. know bobby very well.. he's a good'un...........

Nope. PA. Bobby is my technical consultant. Don't make any better than Bobby

[bullet123]

Have you looked at your control box? Like in case its a mechanical thing that shuts off the power? You step on the gas and the throttle plate in the box shorts out the keyed power or the hot supply to the key switch? That would explain the trim still working at the motor switch...it pulls power from somewhere else. Its far-fetched, but possible.

Ignition is on dash. control box is shift only

[bullet123]

that is a very clean, good lookin' motor.. well taken care of! hope ya get it figured out?

small town, they came out with tha 40 in '89 (optional) with tha junk water cooled stuff..

This one is an 84' . Had old style fuel pump on it, so I went electric. I was thinking the fuel pump was causing my troubles, so I put it on a relay to take that out of the equation

[Smalltownbassin]

It was bare 2.4 rotating assy I picked up for $300. It is just a project motor. Bobby V donated promax regulator plate for the cause.

Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you pulled the 16 off and installed 40 and started having problems. Back to the drawing board lol.

[bullet123]

Have you looked at your control box? Like in case its a mechanical thing that shuts off the power? You step on the gas and the throttle plate in the box shorts out the keyed power or the hot supply to the key switch? That would explain the trim still working at the motor switch...it pulls power from somewhere else. Its far-fetched, but possible.
I was totally convinced it was ignition switch until I found the trim wasn't working in the boat. Im pretty sure trim in boat has an isolated power wire. it works without ignition being on. Am I thinking right?

[25two.stroke]

I was totally convinced it was ignition switch until I found the trim wasn't working in the boat. Im pretty sure trim in boat has an isolated power wire. it works without ignition being on. Am I thinking right?

Depends how the solenoid switch is wired. A lot of the time they pull power off the hot supply to the key switch or the keyed power. Given that yours works with the key off it is not wired to the purple (keyed power). But it still could use power from the harness to activate the solenoids.

[bullet123]

I converted to relays, but it is possible the power is being pulled from the hot going through the switch. im definitely taking my remote test switch with me next time. I will bypass everything in the boat

[racervboat]

Replace the battery cables,ive seen it happen before.

[Smalltownbassin]

Im gonna try to throw out a recap for anyone else just joining with some insight. OP, please correct me if i misrepresent anything.

Fresh 2.4 build with 40A electronics.
Electric fuel pump installed.
Idles fine all day.
Motor dies when revving to get on plane.
Boat power goes out when motor dies including trim switches at helm and bow.
Motor mounted trim switch still functions during all this.

Did i miss anything?

[25two.stroke]

Have you tried disconnecting the charging system completely to see if it will get on plane? I would do that, and disconnect the black/yellow kill wires from the switch boxes and see what happens.

[Smalltownbassin]

If you had a bad battery or battery connection, all your problems make sense especially since you have an electric fuel pump. Looks like a voltage issue on the 12vdc side of things. Sounds like a big voltage drop somewhere.

[racervboat]

Just try a different set of bat cables,if it still does it then that is ruled out.

[25two.stroke]

Voltage drop on a CARB motor should not kill it, especially not instantly. Its easy to tell the difference between an electrical engine kill and one sputtering out of gas cause the fuel pump doesn't have power. He should post a video of it or do some of the troubleshooting things we have said thus far.

Bad battery connections, cables, batteries etc. normally burn up the charging system, not necessarily kill the motor or the whole vessel power. Or if the vessel did loose power the engine should not, theoretically, die. Now I know theres weird things that happen, especially when regs get shorted and the stator is affected...sometimes the running side of the stator gets compromised even though it makes no sense.

[25two.stroke]

Just try a different set of bat cables,if it still does it then that is ruled out.

Do this for sure. Even though it doesn't make sense, do it.

[bullet123]

The problem is that I cant replicate the problem on the hose. I have to drive 40 miles to the lake to test. I think something is going on in my boat harness. Im replacing the harness on the motor to rule that out. im running an isolated power wire to my blinker trim. put on different power cables. installing another ignition switch. im going to take my test switch/ harness with me. if it does it again I will use my test switch and see if it works.

[bullet123]

Have you tried disconnecting the charging system completely to see if it will get on plane? I would do that, and disconnect the black/yellow kill wires from the switch boxes and see what happens.
explain how to safely disconnect charging system

[Smalltownbassin]

Disconnect the regs red wires and cap them off.

[bullet123]

Voltage drop on a CARB motor should not kill it, especially not instantly. Its easy to tell the difference between an electrical engine kill and one sputtering out of gas cause the fuel pump doesn't have power. He should post a video of it or do some of the troubleshooting things we have said thus far.

Bad battery connections, cables, batteries etc. normally burn up the charging system, not necessarily kill the motor or the whole vessel power. Or if the vessel did loose power the engine should not, theoretically, die. Now I know theres weird things that happen, especially when regs get shorted and the stator is affected...sometimes the running side of the stator gets compromised even though it makes no sense.

it runs out of gas because pump loses power.

[25two.stroke]

it runs out of gas because pump loses power.

So its a gradual sputtering die-off. Not instant like a kill switch? And it will lurch a few times and try to go before it dies?

[bullet123]

yes. falls off plane and bogs as you pump hotfoot. its not an engine problem. something is killing power source to the boat. if I was using a pulse pump im sure it would keep running.

[bullet123]

im pretty sure its the hot wire going to ignition switch

[racervboat]

Running to many things on one circuit.

[bullet123]

that's what I thought at first, so I put electric fuel pump on a relay with its own ground. I would have thought if I had to much load on the hot wire it would blow the fuse. the bad part is..... im doing so many changes at once, now I wont know what I did to fix it.

[racervboat]

I was just going to say that,get it fixed and you wont know which one fixed it.:D

[bullet123]

fixed is fixed I guess. :cheers:

[racervboat]

Have you spread the terminals on the eng harness from the boat and plugged it in the motor harness and then clamped it with a worm clamp?

[bullet123]

Never thought of that. you mean spread the male pins? Ive done that on efis

[racervboat]

Yes seen it many times before,wont do it in the driveway but when you go bouncing on the water they short out.

[bullet123]

good idea. thanks

[racervboat]

Even did that on my old mans bayliner I/o was only a few yrs old mercruiser kept dying out on the water put a clamp on it never did it again.

[Merc 2.5]

You had any luck fixing this trent?

[bullet123]

I don't know yet. Going to the lake sunday to test.
replaced engine harness
spread male pins at harness connection and clamped
ran dedicated hot for trim at helm
replaced ignition switch
replaced battery cables
cussed too much
said two prayers

id say its fixed.

[bullet123]

Fixed!!! Pretty sure it was ignition switch, but I will never know for sure. Thanks for all of the ideas to help me fix it. :cheers: