Might be a new outboard manufacturer around the corner

[CDave]

I'm not sure y'all have heard about this but there is a company called Alfadan developing a new 4 stroke 4 cyl. engine. If they are able to do what they claim then look out. They are in Miramar,Fl.
Anyone interested in a 7.5l 4cyl outboard making 600+hp@6500rpm?

Sounds too good to be true but hopefully they will make it happen. Being they are supposedly going to have a freevalve valvetrain I'm betting this is going to take a lot of money to develop. If you don't know what Freevalve is, it's a technology that uses acuators on top of the valves instead of a camshaft. It was/is being developed by Koenigsegg Automotive, the supercar company. https://www.freevalve.com/

https://www.alfadan.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alrpieveDg

[FUJIMO]

...connecting rod photo's & description please...

[David]

About 200 psi BMEP without boost is nothing to sneeze at

[Turtleherder]

...connecting rod photo's & description please...
Exactly the first thing I thought of. What would be the weight of a coffee can size piston? What’s the weight of the rod and pin?

[CDave]

...connecting rod photo's & description please...

Yeah, I'd love to have more information but from what I understand they don't want to release that type of info. Maybe they are waiting for patent approval, IDK. It does make me wonder how feasible their design is.
I'm not an engineer so...

I remember a motorcycle engine that had counter rotating crankshafts. Maybe something like that to offset the secondary vibration?

https://newatlas.com/dan-gurney-moment-cancelling-motorcycle-engine-patent/39344/
Check this out-->http://www.hybrid-engine-hope.com/hope-four_stroke_engine
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/04/20140404-neander.html

[CUDA]

Daaaaaa

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/1086168-alfadan-654hp-outboards-2.html


Hello Guys,
This is Albert Araujo, founder of Alfadan.
I have been looking to see when this topic would hit the forum. In summary the Alfadan 654 project was started in 2018 after seeing what was going on in the larger CC market. We researched several different engine platforms when we decided to look at a new marine specific engine design that could deliver what the larger boat builders were looking for. After researching all the different engine configurations, we reached the conclusion that i4 was the best choice for a simple and reliable engine. Unfortunately, the i4 has been limited in displacement due to a secondary imbalance issue caused by the standard rod configuration. After redesigning the bottom end, we solved the secondary imbalance problem. We then took the design to one of the hyper car companies in Sweden who studied the design and then sent us to Mahle Powertrain. As of today, Mahle Powertrain is under contract to develop this engine along with two of the largest marine transmission and steering companies in the marine industry. The Alfadan 654 is an 8.4 Liter inline four-cylinder, four stroke, naturally aspirated engine that is being designed from scratch by Mahle Powertrain. This company designs and builds engines for 90% of all the large OEM car companies and has 159,000 internal combustion engine experts throughout the world. Our company had been funded but lost its funding due to the current Covid situation. After dealing with the vulture capital group we decide to take this project to the public in hope of building a company for boaters that is owned and funded by boaters which shared the same passion that we do. This is not a hoax or a pipe dream. It’s a real project with several years of research behind it and backed by three world leaders that found the project feasible.
In 2018 we were awarded an NSF grant for our two-cylinder engine design which was the marketing catalyst that led us to the High-Performance Outboard engine market. Mahle Powertrain has done all the engine design and engineering along with all the load calculations and power outputs, bearing load analysis and final engine specifications. Our next step is to build all of the internal parts which will be tested on a simulation rig that applies all the loads as if the parts were running on an actual engine. Parts are analyzed for potential failure and then redesigned and re tested till each part exceeds the design requirements. We then will be building a one-cylinder engine with all the actual parts and dyno testing. The single cylinder allows us to test every possible configuration of piston design, head design, intake and exhaust manifold design, ring position, ring design, end gap, induction, emissions, efficiencies, torque, valve size, valve angels and every other possible design scenario. Once that process is completed, which could last up to twelve months of testing, we reach the final design and enter into our final retail ready engines that will be sea trialed on a Freeman for another six months after having been dyno teste for 1500 to 3,000 hours.

In summary, the design allows us to put 8.4 liters of naturally aspirated power into an engine the same size and approximate weight as a 350-400. This is all based on actual numbers and simulations used by all the major car companies.

I am sure you will all have many questions but hope I have been able to address many of them with this post.


https://www.thehulltruth.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

(https://www.thehulltruth.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13682118)

[mjw930]

Here you go: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10378578B1/en

[FUJIMO]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thehulltruth.com-vbulletin/726x632/us20200018346a1_20200116_d000dsdfsdf0_3182f8dc3e8cb7ec076d3985fe1f468322baa023.png

[noli]

.


487890

[FUJIMO]

...next...seeing it run in a dyno cell would be nice...

[powerabout]

would make a nice v8...

[CDave]

Thanks for all the extra info.:thumbsup:

[FUJIMO]

would make a nice v8...
...you need a freak'n autopilot...

[powerabout]

...you need a freak'n autopilot...
outboards will get so big they will put the engine in the boat to make them look better and gain the use of the transom, win win

[CDave]

outboards will get so big they will put the engine in the boat to make them look better and gain the use of the transom, win win

Good idea, they could even lay the engine horizontal instead of vertical and mount it below the deck. :D

[powerabout]

Good idea, they could even lay the engine horizontal instead of vertical and mount it below the deck. :D

perfect
i heard merc are working on a turning drive that could go under tbe boat to compliment that.
( or perhaps a custom trimable unit with the above unit that transom mounts)

[CUDA]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thehulltruth.com-vbulletin/726x632/us20200018346a1_20200116_d000dsdfsdf0_3182f8dc3e8cb7ec076d3985fe1f468322baa023.png



That looks heavy

I looked around for some thing putting Mahle together with them and I could not... anyone...

If Mahle is REALLY involved I would be impressed, but the size of piston and that wild connecting rod heavy reciprocating weight is

scary, more like a 2,000 rpm motor. guess It might be better than the Lottery?

Piston would look like a short 1 gal can.

[Pulse186]

Plenty of discussion about this motor on other forums, don't hold your breath it is highly doubtful this will ever see the light of day.

[mjw930]

Plenty of discussion about this motor on other forums, don't hold your breath it is highly doubtful this will ever see the light of day.
Based on their published timeline they are at least 3 years away from having a running prototype. I too doubt this will ever see the light of day.

[powerabout]

with todays multiple technologies of rapid prototyping, to take a few months to make a running engine seems very slow, years is a joke.
Remember the Ilmor pushrod indy engine, idea to race winner very quickly

[Dave S]

J Bidden says ...... no gas for you.......:nonod:..... make a Green motor that runs on BS.....:icon_bs:the new great deal...........:p......All these {new} ideas.........PHITTTTT........

[Dave S]

J Bidden says ...... no gas for you.......:nonod:..... make a Green motor that runs on BS.....:icon_bs:the new great deal...........:p......All these {new} ideas.........PHITTTTT........nothing new under the sun....

[SkywayGT]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thehulltruth.com-vbulletin/726x632/us20200018346a1_20200116_d000dsdfsdf0_3182f8dc3e8cb7ec076d3985fe1f468322baa023.png

So i can only assume the wear point is the "sliding block..." The "pinned" piston I don't think would work at high rpm, unless that "piston mount" on that "rod" is ridiculously stout.

As far as the valve train, it sounds very very similar to Ducati's desmodromic valve train, with "fingers" to pull the valve open and push it close.

It definatly looks promising, however, the way you will know if its a "threat" is if merc buys them out... or refuses too..

And we remember what happened with Mercury and Seven Marine.. They passed on buying them because......

Just a thought, not a sermon.

[Forkin' Crazy]

There is another thread on this. I posted a video where many are saying it is a scam.

That rod sure looks heavy.

[powerabout]

So i can only assume the wear point is the "sliding block..." The "pinned" piston I don't think would work at high rpm, unless that "piston mount" on that "rod" is ridiculously stout.

As far as the valve train, it sounds very very similar to Ducati's desmodromic valve train, with "fingers" to pull the valve open and push it close.

It definatly looks promising, however, the way you will know if its a "threat" is if merc buys them out... or refuses too..

And we remember what happened with Mercury and Seven Marine.. They passed on buying them because......

Just a thought, not a sermon.

Seven didnt have any technology/patents that Merc doesnt already have would be my guess?
They bought BMW marine as they wanted the VM diesel contract

[SkywayGT]

Seven didnt have any technology/patents that Merc doesnt already have would be my guess?
They bought BMW marine as they wanted the VM diesel contract

They didn't buy seven marine because they were already working on the v12.

Really.

[powerabout]

They didn't buy seven marine because they were already working on the v12.

Really.
I couldnt see Merc considering the Seven even if they didnt have a v12 on the drawing board.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Think I am going to have to side with this guy. All that high tech, with the computer activated valves and all. Look at Cadillac's new 4 cylinder. Dual over head cams (variable) and twin counter balance shafts and a turbo. You would think that if a camless engine would be viable, Cadillac would be all over it with their deep pockets. Same with the rods.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRS7yvP0MZI

[Bodhi]

Make it BIGGER, make it HUGE, make it weigh 1200lbs......these companies are out their freakin minds. All these huge motors are great if I owned a 57' center.
The only motor announcement that really grabbed my attention was CRT, then I heard a price. I'll stick to buying parts and old 2 strokes until this administration gets their "wet dream" of $7gal

[ADDvanced]

Fake/lame.

[ADDvanced]

Make it BIGGER, make it HUGE, make it weigh 1200lbs......these companies are out their freakin minds. All these huge motors are great if I owned a 57' center.
The only motor announcement that really grabbed my attention was CRT, then I heard a price. I'll stick to buying parts and old 2 strokes until this administration gets their "wet dream" of $7gal

Dude that is all that sells. There is no market for single engine outboard powered high perf stuff anymore. It does not sell.

It also got insanely expensive to the point where most young people today cannot afford cool boats anymore, and I don't know who to blame for that.

My sleekcraft aristocrat in 1979, was $3400, dealer cost, for an outboard model, not rigged. Rigged with a mercruiser 260, it was $8500.

Now, if I go to an inflation adjustment calculator, the costs change to $13k, outboard, or 32k, completely rigged with V8, sterndrive, nice interior, etc. I can't find any badass 20' tunnel hull v8 boats for sale today, brand new, for 30k. Can you?

It isn't the engine manufacturers, because it if was, I should still be able to find 18-20' hulls for $13k, brand new, out the door, full interior, ready to be rigged for an OB. Affordable performance boats do not exist anymore, partially because the middle class is getting squeezed, poverty is growing, and income inequality is growing. On top of that, the average age of a boat purchaser is also skyrocketing, and has been for quite some time.

With younger generations saddled with enourmous student loan debt (hey that's me! $650/month every month since 2010 yayyyy), the absolutely skyrocketing price of houses in the past 10 years, and stagnant wages, it results in basically only retired boomers having money, and no matter what the age group, most people in GENERAL are lame, and want something comfortable and quiet. The marine industry in general is just focusing on giant luxury performance, because nobody younger can afford anything cool anymore. They've been priced out so they just buy old cool pieces of **** and slowly rebuild them over a few months and get frustrated because tehy can't find coosa locally... oh wait that's me again.

Speak of wet dreams, you sure have a boner for turning everything into "hur de der it's biden's fault". Performance boats were not affordable to most people for the past few decades, bro. Income inequality is growing, average age increasing, and the net result is most of any of hte fast boats made today are aimed at people with 50+ year old spines and tiny bladders :P

[powerabout]

who to blame....
Nixon getting off the gold standard...eventually the result is middle class stands still.
Printing money has caused wealth to become detached from profit, which is what the employees got paid from.

[ADDvanced]

Probably. That and the 1% ****ing over the working class for short term profits. But yeah... the market builds what sells, and younger people who want faster exciting stuff don't have any money. So everything is catered to old people.

[Forkin' Crazy]

So everything is catered to old people.

You really have a chip on your shoulder. How old are these people? Some of the center consoles are north of $500,000.

You complain about cost, but don't understand inflation. With your man in charge, expect it to get much worse! :thumbsup:

Check out all these old guys out... Oh.... wait.............. :o

No single boats? Oh.... wait............... :o


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phfA4Uc5sME

[ADDvanced]

How old?

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_620/MTc0NjU1NzEwNTI3ODI1Njc5/1-new-buyers-.webp
Sauce: https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/industry-news/average-boat-buyer-age-drops

The pandemic caused a massive dip in average age, which is a promising sign, but other than that it's been above 50 for a while now. I'm not trying to be ageist, I am just stating facts man. You can post videos of random single engine high perf boats, and that's awesome, I love them, but they are not selling like other types of boats.

I see the sales numbers of most of the industry on a quarterly basis, man. The market caters to what sells.

That said.... I really wish a startup would take some old molds of SSTs and Daytonas and stuff and make them available for $13k, not rigged. Could you imagine?!

[powerabout]

Whats the Bass Boat market doing, that was always a good measure of outboard sales.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Back to the scam.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knndgVWAPsQ

[CUDA]

https://youtu.be/vuIqSKIujFg

[Dave S]

Phifffttttt....ta say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w9gb9ZEvMs

[Will hedrick]

I just want a motor that can turn 7k and not sink my boat...

[powerabout]

Back to the scam.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knndgVWAPsQ
did I see that correctly the piston acceleration is different going down than up on a conventional engine?

[Forkin' Crazy]

did I see that correctly the piston acceleration is different going down than up on a conventional engine?

Their pitch is their system the acceleration remains a constant.

[powerabout]

Their pitch is their system the acceleration remains a constant.
lol 100% scam