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LakeFever
02-15-2021, 02:37 PM
Three times a charm so they say. As of today the hull sits bare, cap separated, all core and transom removed. Layup is going to be balsa core set in ATC B72 Corebond with Derakane 8084P Vinylester for resin. Transom, stringers and floor will all be done in Coosa. Transom will also be set in Corebond. Prior to setting the core and transom in place I will be covering the entire inside of the hull and transom with 1708 before using corebond to set in the core and transom respectively after wetting out with resin. Some knees are going in, and four stringers. Core will run up farther than original. This boat is getting a full interior and will be mostly something to cruise in and feel the fresh air at speed. Power is a 98 200efi that will be getting a build thread of its own when the hull is complete. I want the quality to be as high as I can manage and this build to last so if you have ANY suggestions or want to suggest a different tack im open to any and all of that. I read everything I could about doing this and called as many pro shops as I could. I cant thank S&F members for your content here and answers to my endless questions in other threads, and there will be more so I really appreciate the support. S&F is AWESOME!

Heres some pics of its current state. There is some holes and hull damage from the previous owner/s. I did not strip this hull down but now I have to repair it. Plan is to grind the damaged areas to solid glass and use packing tape or cardboard with parchment on the underside of any holes and glass over them. Would I be best to do this with a single layer of 1708 or multiple layers of CSM? I bought 15 yards of 1708 and 10 yards of CSM. Take a look and let me know what you think I should do about repairing the holes and those gouges in the pics below. If you look at the first pic you can see near the front a patch with no gel, and the spot inside the hull from the top you can sorta see it, this was a previously repaired hole I will be removing this repair and starting fresh. Thanks all

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LakeFever
02-15-2021, 04:10 PM
Okay so new info is already coming at me ;) Critique this layup or give it thumbs up;

After the hull is repaired and a full layer of 1708 is laid up with the vinylester and cured. I will smooth and flatten the 1708 covered hull with a quick scuff then;

Corebond over the cured vinyester
prime balsa core with GP resin timed to kick at the same time as corebond
set core in and let cure
Then back to using vinyester for the rest of the layup.

Do I have to prime the Coosa before using corebond too?

Capt.Insane-o
02-15-2021, 05:47 PM
No.

tnelsmn
02-16-2021, 11:28 AM
Dang! The last owner did you a huge favor taking that entire hull down to the woven roving! That just cut out the worst part of the rebuild process, putting it back together is fun. Great to see another one of these saved, looking forward to seeing this come together.

I wish I would've added more core in mine. Mainly at the point in front of the floor. That seems like a high stress point, mine even had a repair done at the factory in that spot. If I do another one I will have core come up into the first chine right at the forward edge of the floor and continue along that "body line" until a few feet short of the nose. That way there's no hard edge at the front edge of the floor.

Can't help with the different chemical questions, but the experts will be along shortly.

XstreamVking
02-16-2021, 12:35 PM
Sounds good to me....Just scuff and clean the coosa.

LakeFever
02-16-2021, 04:12 PM
Thank you both! We just pulled it inside the shop and materials are to be here on Thursday. Order of operations for starters is to make a cradle, clean and degrease the hull first with soap and water and a scrub brush. Follow that up with a thorough acetone wipe. Then we will grind some tooth into the glass and using air and vacuum only to clean, no acetone to aid bond by leaving the fibers fibery for lack of a better term. Then we lay the first layer of 1708 down with VE and leave to cure. Method to this approach sound healthy?

The only thing I go back forth on is the acetone. In auto body work we wipe all the time with reducer/thinner etc to keep surfaces perfectly clean. It feels a bit out of my norm to grind and not use a chemical wash after before bonding material.

XstreamVking
02-16-2021, 04:28 PM
Styrene is the only one that will make old resin sticky. It's all I have ever used for wipedown. But it's nasty to deal with fumes and skin sensitivity wise. Acetone just cleans oils and may attract moisture since it has a hi evap rate. Fresh grind is prob the best. Grind, blow clean with good clean air and glass it up soon.

LakeFever
02-16-2021, 04:43 PM
In auto paint the surface contaminants can get ground into deeper layers even the the metal and cause bonding/bubbling issues over time so the degrease is to ensure your not sanding any nasties down into the work. I will be careful with the prep, its critical I know this. The derakane is also supposedly the stickiest VE available. Hope it all goes well

As for the core Tnels I had a couple of good chats with one of John Spaeths guys who guided me with materials and process and he said core up to 6" below the bow eye. He also said dont put any wood at all in the bow eye layup, just lots of glass. Thought that a neat tip ive had a few loose ones now.

LakeFever
02-17-2021, 10:55 AM
Splashwell delete. Thinking this is the better way. Will tie in the top of splashwell to the transom maybe make a knee brace that the splashwell delete ties into.

aside from that are there any concerns I should know of if I delete the splashwell? Seastar pro steering, seastar Jack plate. Any tilt/trim or fitment concerns?

tnelsmn
02-17-2021, 12:12 PM
If you're running a jack plate you won't have any worries about the splash well. My plate is a 4" set back and the SeaStar steering is nowhere near the splash well. My only problem is the steering ram will hit the transom if I trim too high with the plate down.

You'll be able to fit a bigger tank and have an easier time rigging with no splash well.

LakeFever
02-17-2021, 01:13 PM
I want to make a huge tank. I like to cruise some distance. I’m planning 4” setback as well I want to keep the porpoising to a minimum. Splash well delete is looking to be a go unless anyone has any negatives to add?

rjdubiel
02-18-2021, 01:32 PM
just an example of how I did my knees and tied the top cap stingers into the transom, never were that I know of direct from Hydrostream. Really easy to do with a splashwell delete, but wouldn't be hard to do with keeping the splashwell either.
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LakeFever
02-18-2021, 03:10 PM
I dig that. I will be doing same/similar to mine for sure. Thanks fellas!

tnelsmn
02-18-2021, 10:32 PM
Lake, here is an idea of how everything sits in relation to the splash well/transom. My plate is all the way up and trimmed to the max here. Plenty of room even without the well. Just depends on how you run your steering lines.

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LakeFever
02-18-2021, 10:48 PM
Perfect thanks! I’m going to run bulkhead fittings to tidy up the steering lines. I picked up the resin, coosa and a bunch of other stuff today. Fired up over this

LakeFever
02-19-2021, 07:04 PM
Started on the cradle today and ran into a bit of gridlock. We measured carefully with plumb bobs at a few stages side to side on the hull. Then we separated the cap, washed and vac’d the glass, and braced accross to our measurement dimensions. The thing that stopped us was if I lift on the transom even a little bit the entire hull flexes and shifts, a LOT.

Is there a drawing or some dimensions I can reference so I get the cradle cut to correct spec?

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averep
02-20-2021, 12:35 AM
Hello Lake, to get your hull back in specs, use a waterlevel to get everything on the money. mark a location under the strake at the rear of the hull, install a screw about 4" down from the edge of starboard strake, now go to the other side an use the water level to tell you where to mount the next screw, under the port strake now you just shim to get the 2 areas level, the pins are now level and you can measure up with a ruler, add reduce shims as needed. Now at the transom measure down from known marks/hull features, end of strakes, side chimes, etc. Mark one side 4'down as a reference point than transfer to other side an repeat, install screw where pin becomes level, not just measure .distance to have it perfectly level, straps can be used to help hold down area but don get crazy on the load. Any point that has a matching point on the other side can be used as a level point to insure no twist, Get a 3/8 clear hose and fill to 1' from each end, take your time an hull will be spot on ,old boatbuilder trick but is the only way to good, cheap and accurate, John also when time, roll your core on half barrel to open it u for good access, also grind coosa and then blow out the pores[full of dust] when applying first coat of resin use a spreader the push resin into the cores to brake the mechanical tension, it will improve your bonding. Its easier than said and works great, I use this system always, John

LakeFever
02-20-2021, 07:50 AM
That’s excellent advice thank you! The only thing I’m a little unsure of is the screws? You suggest a screw through the hull into the cradle? Or through the hull only to use as a reference point? Can I not put a marker dot to reference and avoid the screw or am I missing something?

the balsa over a barrel to improve resin saturation is an excellent tip I really appreciate that one and will be doing this for sure. I was very hesitant to use balsa I wanted a fully synthetic build to prevent any future rot but the strength and the thinking that when properly sealed the balsa will last won me over in the end.

LakeFever
02-20-2021, 04:44 PM
Can I use core-bond to set the stringers in? Can I use core-bond to fill gaps/voids like in between the core and the edge of the pad, and in between the transom edges to hull? Basically places where I see people using peanut butter, do you recommend core-bond as a suitable substitute?

averep
02-20-2021, 10:54 PM
Lake, don't put a screw into the hull, put it in the cradle, let the shank stick out as a starting point, a dot will work, just easier to line a ruler up on a screw shank. When you bend the balsa over a barrel it lets you get resin fully into the core by opening up the blocks, always grind and blow off coosa, scraping a coat of resin will penatrate into the thousand of tiny holes and improve the bond. I use micro spheres[bubbles] mixed into resin as a putty for filling /faring. I've never used corebond so can't help on that, I've always laid core into a mat and resin base. John

LakeFever
02-21-2021, 05:25 AM
I understand the barrel and core wetting procedure im good with that and its a great tip! I understand the water level I remember seeing crews installing tee bar ceiling using them I’m good with the level concept.

What I’m a bit unsure of is how to layout the cradle because the hull is bare and floppy. So while I can duplicate the shape of the hull to plywood at sections and cut them out ok. I don’t know what shape the hull is supposed to ideally be. I was thinking to use a large scribe similar to log cabin building to transfer the shape of the hull to sections of plywood for the cradle then I guess I’ll have to do my best with the water level getting both sides symmetrical. I’m thinking if I start with the pad ensuring it’s perfectly flat and level then using the water level and shim up from there to support the chines and finally do a visual inspection of the rub rail position when that’s all done and see how straight it is. I can’t think of anything else to do really. Wish me luck we start on this tomorrow

averep
02-21-2021, 11:17 PM
I don't know if hull is twisted or wavey, but twisted is easy, turn hull over, use water level at trans first, level out trans by using outside chimes, block to hold shape and move up the hull say 10', mark both sides and level up, use scrap plywood to scribe pattern for cradle, bow up or down doesn't matter as hull will be straight, you can add to front cradle to get it sitting like you want after you flip it over, this should get you started, make patterns it will save you a lot of plywood, john

XstreamVking
02-22-2021, 09:13 AM
Make a fairly sturdy cradle that is level and straight> basically boards running just longitudinally, place hull into cradle. Check to see where the hull is not making contact. try and make it the same from side to side with some moderate weight and wedges. Build structure, floor etc.. Flip boat, sharpen strakes and blueprint hull to same specs from side to side. These hulls were never built to exacting specs nor did they stay exactly straight or true to the centerline over their lifetime. (twist) Just re-glassing the hull will pull the shape out of true when the glass shrinks and warps. I had a friend weld an alum cradle out of scrap when I did mine. Wood will work good too. But choose good straight boards, bolt and screw it together and check with a string, laser, or the water level while building it. If you make plywood templates for side to side, pick one side and just mirror for the other side. Lot of ways to do it. Some even make a cradle on the boats trailer frame. jm2cts.

LakeFever
02-22-2021, 01:39 PM
That’s valuable guidance thanks again. We made the first plywood piece to cradle the rear where all the angles are because that area does not shift when we lift and move the hull around. We slid the boat off the trailer onto the first cross brace and are working on number two. Looks like things are level and true. Happy thus far. Gratuitous pics

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XstreamVking
02-22-2021, 03:38 PM
Good start with a solid reference point.

LakeFever
03-02-2021, 04:55 PM
Got the cradle pretty much wrapped up today. Attached a pic, we are thinking of using some expanding foam to fit the hull really tight to the braces, we have some semi rigid two part low expansion stuff for this. One of my helpers is a window man so he has the right product.

Starting to think about glassing and will do a layer of 1708 over the entire hull but first a few patches. For these some guidance is appreciated. Was thinking CSM in 3 or 5 layers? Grind the damage and holes down to allow for glass to be built back up yes? Also what are these holes above the drain hole on the radius part of the transom area in this pic for? Cant think of any reason for them

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XstreamVking
03-02-2021, 05:19 PM
Might use some mat and 1708 to patch. Depends on the thickness of hull area. Holes, I have no idea.

LakeFever
03-05-2021, 07:59 PM
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We added some casters and lifted the hull out of the cradle today. Pic to show how we set it up. There are a bunch more smaller detailed supports not shown. We used door jams for braces because free

LakeFever
03-14-2021, 03:21 PM
We finally wrapped up the cradle today. The hull had some twist in it from sitting without the core for a few years. We worked very hard to true it up as best we could but there are some warps on the chines for/aft that appear to be manufacture issues not warp issues from sitting. That said we have all chines within 1/4" total so 1/8" per side of true and thats only in the one spot about midway down the starboard side. We referenced 6 points per side so 12 reference points in total and most are identical or 1/16" variance side/side.

To make the cradle completely locked in this place we hoisted the boat up and used premix fiberglass to line the cradle supports and placed parchment paper over top then lowered the hull back down which really makes it very stable in the cradle now. So next weekend we are going to begin laying in some glass repairs and see how we make out.

tnelsmn
03-14-2021, 04:03 PM
Dang! You sure took the cradle further than I did. Sounds like its going to be solid.

Jmr1974
03-14-2021, 05:14 PM
Looking good, almost time to let the beatings begin!

LakeFever
03-14-2021, 06:26 PM
No i don’t think I went further really in terms of design I was heavily influenced by yours. The key difference is I need to be able to move the cradle in and out of the shop as well as lift the boat in and out without compromising it. This is where the differences are. I might make it into a storage cradle after the build is done.

There will be plenty of people around this thing too so I had to make sure it was fool proof in the sense that if you drop the boat in, it fits spot on and there’s no shimming etc nec. Plus I could see more hulls being done in this thing I have a few friends with vkings and Valero’s.

I’m really wanting to get started laying this thing up though. Been hard to get many days on it so far. We thought we had more time but work stuff got busy.

LakeFever
03-17-2021, 02:25 PM
First piece of glass is in! Little single layer CSM patch along with a few test pieces on the bench. Went smooth we mixed in 2.5% mekp at 65 degrees and it took about an hour to mostly cure, about 30 mins to gel up. I put some parchment and packing tape under the hole and tabbed in the patch over worked slick. I also left about 1/2" of the derakane Vinylester in the mixing cup to see how strong the resin alone would be and wow! This derakane is TOUGH stuff. Even smashing it with a hammer wont break it. Very impressed.

Adhesion also seems to be extremely strong I could not pry any from the dirty unprepped wood I tried some CSM and 1708 test pieces on. This whole first round makes me feel a lot more comfortable about the product and getting more serious with the glassing the hull this coming weekend.

I also have to say the smell is really nice, it smells like finely refined bondo for lack of a better description. I had a body shop eons ago and that old familiar scent was a welcome thing here. Not sure how others feel about it but I really like it. I added a pic of how good the adhesion of this Derakane is. I had a little on my finger and thumb after tabbing and when it began to kick, well look at the pic and see. So fine and so much grip. Impressed so far with it

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XstreamVking
03-17-2021, 04:30 PM
Derakane is a hi quality vinyl hybrid. Really intended as a chemical resistant product. I made salt and chlorine holding tanks with it long ago for a water treatment plant. It does smell different than reg vinyl or poly. A bispherenol based resin. Not much styrene in it.

LakeFever
03-17-2021, 05:51 PM
That’s exactly what the sales rep said. Made to bond to anything including concrete for commercial use with extreme chemical resistant properties. Marine use is merely a bonus. I figure it like this; I have this chance to build this thing so I wanted the best materials I could get to make it all that more worthwhile. I really went back and forth with the core though. Ended up choosing balsa and feel it will be good. Time will tell

tnelsmn
03-17-2021, 10:13 PM
First piece of glass going in is a good feeling!

LakeFever
03-18-2021, 05:45 PM
How many layers should I lay in for hull holes? I have csm and 1708

LakeFever
03-21-2021, 11:19 AM
Would still like to know any thoughts on how much glass to lay in before core. We were thinking two layers of 1708 in the core and pad area and one layer of 1708 over the entire hull. Yesterday the plan was to do most of this but we had some sanding to do first. We started off by giving it a good wipe down with acetone. Then we moved to sanding and it's quite a surprise how once you start sanding in the core/pad area there was air pockets and cabosil in places quite thick and some scratches from whoever removed it we had to feather out etc. Kept finding lots of places that needed more sanding and grinding which took a lot longer to clean up and prep than I thought it would. We did get it all done and the entire inside of the hull has been hit with 26 grit and is ready for the lay up. We started in the thin spots and the holes in the transom with a single layer of CSM and that was as far as we got yesterday. Going to sand those down and add another couple of layers of CSM over those spots before moving onto 1708.

Fire away if you see anything or think of anything Im doing wrong.


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rjdubiel
03-21-2021, 07:15 PM
I vacuum bagged my core to 12 oz glass with thick resin as well. But if hand layup 1708 should be good at one layer. One layer over the top. Go twice on transitions and ya good. Top side of the core needs to be the strong side, water pushing up into the hull. Anyway, that's my opi

LakeFever
03-22-2021, 08:37 AM
Thanks that’s pretty much my thoughts on why I was going to add a second laying under the core and pad area. I’ve owned enough of these to see where they chip off underneath and it’s at the edges of the pad and chines mostly. So unless anyone has other to say RJ has the call two layers of 1708 in all the edges and then core. Then glass over top 1708 with csm on top for finish. Anywhere that looks like a good spot to add more I will. I’d rather add fifty pounds to the hull to make it wake board wave proof than not. Want it to last

rjdubiel
03-22-2021, 08:57 AM
I would not bother with 2 layers of 1708 on the bottom side of the core to be clear. One layer under core and one over the top with 2 layers at the edges and on the transition up the stringers. On my vking I ran it light last year and beat it good on some windy days (never got around to finishing, put the motor on and ran it all year!!). None of my work gave way. I only did 12 oz biax under the core, then one layer of 1708 over the core. My floor was 1/2 ply with 6oz cloth on the under side and over the top side once bedded into the hull. I wanted to see if the floor to hull area would crack at all or separate but it did not. So this week/next week I will put a 10 inch strip of 1708 at the floor/hull area and up under the bow where the core meets the hull. My hull is very thin so up where your feet are under the bow the hull is flexible on the sides where the core ends and I was going to stiffen it up some with 1708.

XstreamVking
03-22-2021, 09:06 AM
Build it how you intend to use it. I built mine stout and don't regret it at all. Add glass where you think it needs it. Cover the edges of the 1708 with some torn mat. (called tailing, adds shear strength) I have jumped mine and ran some rough water. No cracks...Your plan sounds fine.

LakeFever
03-22-2021, 09:32 AM
Awesome tips thank you! Tailing will be done on all 1708. You guys rock

tnelsmn
03-22-2021, 10:27 PM
My boat got about 3-4 layers of CSM in the patches, full single layer of 1708 across entire bottom after patching.

LakeFever
03-23-2021, 06:02 AM
My one strake in particular port side where the floor sits was sliced with the grinder right to the gel. I feathered it out so there was no hard edge and put two layers of Csm and yesterday I ran a single 9” wide strip of 1708 over that. I was surprised at how much more resin the 1708 took vs the csm. It’s at least 4-5 times more. Anyways I will tail the 1708 with csm and to add balance I will do the same 1708 strip down the port side. Once cured I will feather this all in and do another layer of 1708 over the whole bottom. Maybe overkill but it’s making me feel better about the build.

one thing I have already noticed is the derakane is considerably harder when grinding vs the existing glass. Makes feathering a little tricky but I like the strength gain


I really appreciate all you guys input. I’ll update some pics soon

LakeFever
03-28-2021, 07:54 AM
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We laid up csm in thin areas a few layers or more. Instead of running two layers of 1708 over the bottom we came up with an overlapping system that put three layers of 1708 over the spots I was worried about and only one layer over the area that will be under the core. We also tailed ( great tip thanks xstream ) all the 1708 at the seams before laying over more except for the two main pieces under the core area because we overlapped those 4” and thought it was good. For whatever reason this hull seems to have the best quality existing glass in the pad area and under the core. It’s really thick there I drilled a tiny test hole it was almost 1/4” thick with two layers of roving. We think this hull may have been restored once before.

it’s a relief to have this part of the build done. It was the only part of the process we were scratching our heads over. Now that we have a sound hull I hope next weekend to be laying in core and starting on the transom. We are going to lay a few layers of 1708 on the inside of the transom area before putting coosa in. I have an interlocking plan for tabbing the 1708 into the bottom and sides that should really strengthen up that area.

XstreamVking
03-28-2021, 10:04 AM
Looking good man..

LakeFever
03-30-2021, 04:12 PM
Had a few hours today to lay in more glass. Not being totally sure how to lay over the existing holes I ground a smooth bevel about 2" radius around each hole halfway through existing glass and laid in three layers of CSM each one extending out an inch or two and sanded them now flush with existing prior to laying in fresh 1708. Did the same with the transom which is getting 1708 next session. Starting to get the hang of this now

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tnelsmn
03-30-2021, 06:38 PM
Looks great! I almost miss this part. Instead I'm over here pulling out what little hair I have left waiting for parts from other people while ice is going off local lakes.

LakeFever
03-30-2021, 07:07 PM
Trade ya :D

In all seriousness I understand what your saying. This is now fun to do and I want to work on it everyday even when I can’t. I have always loved to work but not always loved the work I had to do. This is chosen work and I’m lovin every minute of it. Hope to be laying core this weekend

LakeFever
04-01-2021, 11:10 AM
How many layers of 1708 should I put on the inside skin of the transom before I lay the transom coosa in? I ran one and was thinking three?

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tnelsmn
04-01-2021, 01:33 PM
I only did one on mine. Then used CSM to bond transom wood to hull. I did two full layers of 1708 on the inside though, with 2 overlapping layers tabbing in first. It's beyond my pay grade, but I think 3 would be overkill.

Looks like you're doing very good clean glass work!

LakeFever
04-01-2021, 04:32 PM
Thanks much! Well we did two so two it is. We are basically taking the approach of when in doubt? Add more glass. That said we don’t want to waste time doing what’s not necessary so I guess we will stop at two and that means tomorrow we are laying in the transom! First time we get to play with the coosa. Thinking two layers of 3/4” and one of 1/2”

Just realized we will also be using core bond for the first time tomorrow too

LakeFever
04-02-2021, 04:08 PM
Got the transom pieces cut and fit today and that’s as much time as we had. Plus I wasn’t sure if I should drill relief holes in the coosa because we are using corebond. Supplier said use a 1/4” v notch trowel, no holes, and go easy on weight he said 20psi was plenty.

we cut three layers of coosa; 2x 3/4” and 1x 1/2”. Going to laminate the 1/2” in the middle. What say you guys about relief holes yay or nay?

XstreamVking
04-03-2021, 08:51 AM
Won't hurt a thing. May release some trapped air. JM2cts. You prob have a 1/4'' of glass on the trans face to take the load of the engine and jack plate. Should be good. The transom face spreads the load from the engine and jackplate forces. Also spreads the load from the bolts clamping forces. All this load spreading is preventing any compression of the softer coosa core. Make it the same on the inside where the bolts go thru.

LakeFever
04-03-2021, 09:12 AM
Thanks that’s helpful I might as well drill then if there’s no loss. I wonder if I should toss a third layer of 1708 on the transom skin before laying in the coosa? I was also thinking to add sleeves for the Jack plate bolt holes to take some load off the coosa. It’s so light it’s kinda freaky thinking of what power it has to hang onto

XstreamVking
04-03-2021, 10:23 AM
After 2 lays plus original what do you have for thickness? 1/4'' is usually good, more wont hurt. I don't sleeve the bolts or use alum plates to mount anything. Lg washers on the bolts is enough. Don't need to crank the trans bolts either. Use a tq wrench tp get them even. 20-30#'s is usually enough. Check them again later for a re-tq.

LakeFever
04-03-2021, 11:52 AM
I’m not sure how thick it is I’ll have to measure it. Good tip re torque spec I know it doesn’t take much but I wasn’t sure on torque. That’s good to know

tnelsmn
04-03-2021, 08:28 PM
Lake, man it's so cool to see your build starting to come together as mine is wrapping up. I love these rebuild threads on this site!

As for checking torque I just found this product being used by one of the airplane builders I follow on YouTube (Mike Patey) great page to follow. It's a seal/indicator showing if something has turned. It doesn't hold anything like lock tight, just shows if it moves. I have it on all the steering component hardware as well as engine mounts. Goes on kinda like that cake decoration icing you buy in a tube. Drys in an hour and cures in 24. Resists vibration, heat, cold, etc. Boeing uses it during assembly. Lots of color options to choose from too, I grabbed blue to match the boat.

So now I have a quick reference to look at when doing a pre launch walk around of the boat.

https://www.itwprobrands.com/product/cross-check

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Tony

LakeFever
04-04-2021, 06:55 AM
I enjoy the build threads too. I’m glad to finally be offering up some entertaining content after years of endless questions LOL. That dykem seal cracker looks cool and handy I’ll add that to my process for certain things for sure, thanks for that. Hope to get back at it a little bit tomorrow. At least get the transom block laminated and then hopefully lay it in the hull the following day

LakeFever
04-05-2021, 05:48 PM
Transom outer skin is 3/16” right at the top measured with calipers but it is thicker in the middle so it’s around a 1/4” for the most part I’m sure. Don’t think I’m going to add another layer of 1708 but ya never know. I made some unistrut clamps today for this. Seems to hold well. I have a piece of 3/4” plywood attached to the cradle that is the same angle as the transom so I can clamp it flat and strong.

I don’t have a lot of time for the boat this week so it will be a bit slow until next week I should have more time available.

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Jmr1974
04-10-2021, 06:45 PM
Looking good, I was slacking and peeked at your build, looks like I better get a move on or your gonna pass me up.

LakeFever
04-23-2021, 07:54 PM
Finally got back at this for a few hours today. In some ways these delays are helpful because it gives me more time to think and plan and in other ways the delays drive me nuts. Took about three hours of messing around finding all the tools and materials getting them set up ready to start laying up stuff again. So the thinking is with the coosa transom I really don’t want any chance for issues so we added a third layer of 1708 inside the transom skin and will be adding a fourth on the outside as well as a layer or two of csm for finishing. Might be overkill but it makes me feel safer about this process.

We also bonded two of the three coosa layers together today using a 1/4” v notch trowel and we did just like Xstream advised. We used 40 grit on a block and scuffed diagonally in both directions to rough the coosa surface and then used air and blew it out really well. We spread the core bond on both panels first flat by pushing it hard into the coosa then one sheet horizontal notches and the other vertical notches. Placed the two coosa panels on a heavy table with parchment and a sheet of 3/4” ply with concrete blocks over for weight. The core bond didn’t compress as much as I thought it would but it really seems to bond very well. Tomorrow we will add the third layer into the coosa layup and then bond it into the hull. Felt great to get back to this

LakeFever
04-24-2021, 05:13 PM
We got ourselves a transom! I also laid in another 5’ section of 1708 in the front floor area where the damage was to the hull. I was going to do the whole thing but after some of you said it wasn’t nec I decided against it but today I just couldn’t resist because this area seems prone to damage from other resto threads I have seen so I beefed it up and it looks good for core now.

we also did a test with the core bond over my very first test pieces of csm and 1708 on plywood. I did no prep to the old glass or the plywood I bonded down. Just one coat of core bond and pressed by hand the pieces of plywood down and I could not pry them apart no matter what I tried. I snapped both pieces of plywood apart in the glue and the core bond held. I was shocked that the grip was that high especially with no prep.

that’s all for now hope to get some more done next week. It’s nice to finally be building some of this thing instead of repairing.

tnelsmn
04-24-2021, 06:04 PM
Looks good! Some days I wish I added another 3/4" to my transom. But I think my giant knees will pick up where more wood leaves off. Plus I'm not going crazy with power.

You're doing very quality work from what I can see.

Tony.

LakeFever
04-24-2021, 06:19 PM
With plywood dual 3/4 is plenty. With the coosa being so light and much easier to compress the further the span and thicker the glass the less leverage the bolts will have on the coosa so this is why I did it. It’s two layers 3/4 and one layer 1/2 in the middle of the two.

Thanks for the kind words on the build. We are trying to do our best but this is my first boat resto so it’s been a learning curve. Goal is to have a strong safe fun boat that will last as long as I do lol

tnelsmn
04-24-2021, 07:13 PM
We are trying to do our best but this is my first boat resto so it’s been a learning curve. Goal is to have a strong safe fun boat that will last as long as I do lol

I am 100% in the same boat. Pun intended haha.:D

LakeFever
05-01-2021, 05:57 PM
Got some core in today! I can see why it’s called core bond and not transom bond. While I was quite pleased with the transom bond and install the corebond with the gp primed balsa core is really incredible. The core bond squeezed up between the balsa and I faired in the edges with the corebond all in one session and its a completely void free pad now. Very slick product. Some pics for you guys

averep thanks for the tip priming the balsa spread open over a barrel. We did it lengthwise over a piece of pvc pipe and the wide side over a barrel and brushed resin in between all the pieces. Worked great!

Edit- added a pic of the hull after all glass repairs done before core

LakeFever
05-07-2021, 02:30 PM
Getting back to work tomorrow and wondering about the core and stringers? Initially I was thinking lay in all the core, glass it, then do the stringers. Now that the core is going in it looks like it will be a very hard edge to wrap the 1708 around from the sides of the core down to the core in the pad unless i use a lot of thickened resin which will make the stringer bedding afterwards, not ideal. What do you guys suggest here? I was thinking maybe grind the edge of core where it meets the pad to a rounder shape but worry about thinning the core down especially close to the pad? Or should I lay a piece of 1708 or two over the pad now as it is in above pics and lay the stringers on top of that at the edge of pad and then lay the side core up against the side of the stringers? Then glass that all in? Am I making sense? LOL lots of ways to do this, advice would be nice.

I could add a second layer of core in the pad like Tnels did that will bring the hard to cover edge up making it a lot easier. Hmmmm

Jmr1974
05-08-2021, 06:25 AM
Getting back to work tomorrow and wondering about the core and stringers? Initially I was thinking lay in all the core, glass it, then do the stringers. Now that the core is going in it looks like it will be a very hard edge to wrap the 1708 around from the sides of the core down to the core in the pad unless i use a lot of thickened resin which will make the stringer bedding afterwards, not ideal. What do you guys suggest here? I was thinking maybe grind the edge of core where it meets the pad to a rounder shape but worry about thinning the core down especially close to the pad? Or should I lay a piece of 1708 or two over the pad now as it is in above pics and lay the stringers on top of that at the edge of pad and then lay the side core up against the side of the stringers? Then glass that all in? Am I making sense? LOL lots of ways to do this, advice would be nice.

I could add a second layer of core in the pad like Tnels did that will bring the hard to cover edge up making it a lot easier. HmmmmI did it just like you were initially thinking to do it, lots of thickened resin for the radius. It is a pain in the but especially if you add all the fingers that branch off the main stringers like I did. So far the happiest day of my restore was being done with the stringers, it was the most tedious time consuming part of the project so far. What are you going to use for the stringers?

LakeFever
05-08-2021, 07:02 AM
I’m using 1/2” coosa for stringers and floor. I slept on it and my thinking is to either add the second layer of core or glass over the pad core tabbed 2” above and then bed the stringers and the side pieces of core in at the same time with corebond. I did some test fitting yesterday I can make a really clean tight fit if I go this way. Today’s boat work got pushed aside once again which is unfortunate/fortunate because it leaves me more time to figure out the best method.


More suggestions welcome :D

Jmr1974
05-08-2021, 07:18 AM
I’m using 1/2” coosa for stringers and floor. I slept on it and my thinking is to either add the second layer of core or glass over the pad core tabbed 2” above and then bed the stringers and the side pieces of core in at the same time with corebond. I did some test fitting yesterday I can make a really clean tight fit if I go this way. Today’s boat work got pushed aside once again which is unfortunate/fortunate because it leaves me more time to figure out the best method.


More suggestions welcome :D Don’t feel bad, my boat work got pushed aside also because of this new fishing boat I bought.

tnelsmn
05-08-2021, 10:11 AM
Or should I lay a piece of 1708 or two over the pad now as it is in above pics and lay the stringers on top of that at the edge of pad and then lay the side core up against the side of the stringers? Then glass that all in?

If you don't want a second layer of core in the pad I think this is the best way. I copied "Out-a-Site"s factory built comp hull that had doubled up core in the pad. I knew mine would end up on the heavy side so I liked the idea of more support in the pad to carry the extra 150lbs. Also, the second layer of core in the pad gave the outer core a nice stop to rest against when bonding. The stringers would do the same if you go that route, but that might not even be a problem with core bond.

I did build a sample part using leftover material. Layup as follows(1708, CSM, 1/2" balsa, 1708) the second layer of core was laid up (CSM, 1/2" balsa, 1708). There is a considerable difference is stiffness.

From the amateur builder point of view, I liked the idea when I laid 1708 over the core I could do one continuous piece. So each strand of the weave would extend from the first chine completely across the core to the other first chine. I'm my head thats stronger than multiple pieces of 1708. But I could be totally off base. And either way is still going to be considerably stronger than the factory built it. Heck, mine had just chopper gun over most the core.

Tony.

LakeFever
05-08-2021, 08:59 PM
I’m using 5/8” balsa so doubling that up seems a bit much. I’m thinking the route you suggested is sounding best so far because I can lay the stringers and the core in together with core bond and it will be void free and easier to glass up after. I’ll end up with a couple layers of 1708 over the pad this way as well which sounds comforting.

thanks for the info I’ll ruminate over it all lol

LakeFever
05-15-2021, 06:00 PM
We got back to it today for half a day. Got more core in and we came up with a good plan to fit the core all in before the stringers. I reviewed a few build threads including outasites and my main concern when building this was to keep it as water safe as possible hence the coosa and vinylester. Being that the balsa core is the only wood going into this build I want to seal it in glass before adding stringers so that’s what we are doing. We also faired in the transom some more. One more thin coat of corebond and the transom will be ready for glass. I really like the core bond it sticks very well and is hard yet flexible when cured.


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tnelsmn
05-15-2021, 10:52 PM
Looks good! This part of the process brings back some great memories, makes me want to start another one haha.

LakeFever
05-16-2021, 06:07 AM
I love building and restoring things. I’m taking your advice on the core forward of the floor and running it up to the body line. Probably do the same stringer/footwell design too because you did a great job and I don’t know what else to do there lol. Speaking of stringers do you have a measurement handy from the transom to the footwell ribs? I’m not sure where to place those

tnelsmn
05-16-2021, 06:50 AM
I love building and restoring things. I’m taking your advice on the core forward of the floor and running it up to the body line. Probably do the same stringer/footwell design too because you did a great job and I don’t know what else to do there lol. Speaking of stringers do you have a measurement handy from the transom to the footwell ribs? I’m not sure where to place those

The floor is 8' from the transom, it's a full sheet of plywood. The footwell is 18" from the front edge of the floor forward.

LakeFever
05-17-2021, 06:39 PM
Cores done. Going to add the pieces at the front of the floor up to the chine as well. We will fit those after mocking up the floor to get a good fit. Can’t say enough good about the core bond. Very helpful wherever there’s a void or gap just add more and done. Also still have to fair in the edges before glassing. We did a tiny bit of this with leftover mixed cb at the front of the pad


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phil blomquist
05-19-2021, 10:32 PM
Happy to see I’m not the only one with nothing better to do with their spare time lol

LakeFever
06-17-2021, 04:16 PM
Finally back at this. We decided to add the second layer of core in the pad like tenels/outa site. Did a layer of 1708 over the first layer then core bonded in the second. Worked the corebond into every nook and cranny too we really packed the voids up tight in the entire pad area which made me feel a lot better about durability. Plus it looks much better and will be a lot easier for me to glass over now. Still have to bond the front edges of core you can see them pre-fit in the second pic ( up to the body line Tony ) ;) but I think we will be glassing over the core within the next few days.


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tnelsmn
06-17-2021, 04:20 PM
Looks good! I like how you came wider with the core in front of the floor. I wish I did that to mine.

LakeFever
06-17-2021, 04:24 PM
Dude your fast with those replies! I edited the post giving you cred for that tip lol. Wish we could work on this daily until it was done but thats how it goes. We'll keep going at it

tnelsmn
06-17-2021, 04:31 PM
Currently sitting at work and nothing is on fire so I have some time haha.
Could you just imagine how fast you could get one done if you could just do it all day everyday?

LakeFever
06-17-2021, 05:53 PM
When we started we had six weeks that looked to be wide open. We thought we could at least get the hull/core/floor done. Then life happened. I started to type it all out but two paragraphs deep and half the story left I deleted it I’m sure you all know how life gets in the way of the best laid plans. Anyways we have a few days now to make a push, let’s see how we do

tnelsmn
06-17-2021, 06:28 PM
I know all too well how stuff comes up. The majority of the work done on mine happened in 1-2 hour work sessions. There were months where I never touched the boat, thats life. Seems like 70% of build threads end that way, new house, move, kids, whatever, boat project is the first on the back burner, and rightfully so.

rjdubiel
06-17-2021, 06:58 PM
I thought 4 weeks on mine and done! You know just hammer down everyday. 12 years later it hit the water, 13 years later and I am thinking about finishing the floor. Haha. Use it every weekend just need to finish it off. Haha. But this one is an amazing build Tony. Super nice

LakeFever
06-17-2021, 08:07 PM
Yep so true. Also for what it’s worth we added the second layer of core oriented perpendicular to the first one. First layer rectangles sideways, second layer rectangles lengthwise. Not sure if it will make it any stronger but it seemed the better way when we did it. Just like bricks we offset the seams.

That’s got to be worth a few mph extra :D

XstreamVking
06-18-2021, 11:05 AM
When it's done, the confidence you will have in this boat will make all the work worth it.

LakeFever
06-18-2021, 12:37 PM
Yes indeed thats the reward is to be able to run hard and focus on the driving not worrying about the hull hanging together. Got the front core in today, fairing remains and glass over it. Then onto stringers

LakeFever
06-24-2021, 08:13 PM
We’ve been working on getting the core prepped for glassing. Core bond is sticky stuff and gums up the sand paper very quickly so anyone contemplating using it for fairing compound in lieu of cabosil peanut butter be advised it takes a lot of paper to sand it all. It is tough product with excellent adhesion to all things I’ve tried.

We decided to seal the topside of the core with vinyester, let cure, then fare in the rest of the core with corebond and strips of csm with gp resin so we can go wet on wet and not have to sand the core bond. Then cover with 1708 using vinyester. We worked the edges of the core as smooth as we could to make glass transitions smooth and strong. We don’t want any hard edges for water to sit.

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Bodhi
06-25-2021, 09:35 AM
Project is coming along great! The extra material and time will be worth it when you hit that first wake and say to yourself "damn that's solid".
I had ideas of finishing my stream in a few weeks.....life, work, and of course all the added fixes and improvements, I finally rigged the merc a year and a half later.
Keep those photos comin

LakeFever
06-26-2021, 07:44 PM
Alright today felt like a turning point. It was by far the most successful glass session we’ve had yet and it was a big one. We did 9’ x 50” of 1708 over the core in one go. One full gallon of vinylester to do it. I had been doing some research on stretching out the working time of resin and one guy suggested refrigerating the resin so we did that for 6hours it made the resin quite thick. We catalyzed at 1.2% and it worked great. We had about five minutes after we wrapped it up before the resin kicked.

a couple of comments that really blew my mind. First, we used the gp poly resin with csm and core bond wet on wet like I mentioned earlier to fair in the edges of the core and save sanding time. This was my first time using poly resin for laying in glass and it’s way different than the vinylester. Mainly after it kicks its dry and I mean dry to touch not tacky at all. The vinylester stays super tacky for at least a week after I lay in some and for the first day it’s extremely sticky. We primed the core yesterday with it and today we laid the big sheet of 1708 down and if you pull it back up most of the csm stays on it for an idea of how tacky it is. This is why pre priming the core was so helpful for this big lay up. We put the 1708 mat down dry and this leads to the second major mind blowing event. I mixed the resin in a clean empty windshield washer jug and poured the resin directly onto the mat and spread it out with whizz rollers and man this is the only way to go! The whizz rollers spread so fast and do a far better job at rolling out any air bubbles than finned rollers do. I highly recommend you try this in the future if any of you are planning on glassing anything large. Huge advantage with the whiZz. We also ground a radius onto the edge of the core where it will meet with the floor so we could tie in the 1708 in an over/under braid. I added a close up pic so you guys can see how hard this would be to roll out typically with a finned roller but with the whizz it was actually easy. The first pic is the csm with poly resin and 6” strips of csm over the core bond in the center in front of the pad and the sides of the core.

Happy with today’s results. Here’s some pics

tnelsmn
06-26-2021, 09:54 PM
Looks great, Lake! Moving right along with it.

LakeFever
06-27-2021, 04:20 AM
Thanks Tony, we have a day or two this week to do some more so we should be able to get the rest of the core covered and start on the transom glass.

I’ve been thinking to add a second layer of 1708 over the core as well. Not up the sides like this big one just up to the edge of the core bond. Really want this to last and realllllly want this to be water tight inside as well as out

tnelsmn
06-27-2021, 11:06 PM
I was using 8" 1708 "tape" as the local supply house called it, to tab in my stringers and that ended up coming a ways up the sides of the core. That also completely covered the area between the stringers with a full second layer of 1708.

There will be more glass going over your core in the future, just saying in case that thought hadn't crossed your mind. It never did mine until I was laying it down.

LakeFever
06-28-2021, 04:45 AM
I appreciate the input thank you. I was thinking of two things; reinforcing the glass over the core for bedding the stringers as well as more glass means stronger. That’s really all it is, and instinct more than any engineering aspect. My gut says that it’s most likely plenty strong as it is now but another layer will certainly make it good to go at a small weight penalty. Haven’t decided for sure yet, I’ll update of course as I go.


speaking of stringers two overlapping tabs is enough? Cap the top or no need because we are core bonding them to the floor?

rjdubiel
06-28-2021, 09:16 AM
So this is what I did. I put 1708 over my core in the pad, then bedded my stringers in and did some 1708 over the core on the outside of the stringers and up to just before where the floor would sit on the hull and another lay of 1708 in the middle of the stringers and up the stringers as well and then some biax 12 oz up and over the stingers before i put the floor down. When I put the floor down some more 1708 that went up the sides of the hull where the floor sits and that 12 inch wide strip covered a second layer where the core ends and hull starts under the floor. Should be plenty strong. I glassed the bottom of the floor and installed, then glassed the top side with cloth and some more 1708 tape on the top side where the hull and floor come together on the top side of the floor. I did not go back in with the air tank, it can sink! haha. I was going to but skipped it as it was easier to just do it the way I did and it is lighter. I did a longer taller stringer up the keel of the boat that connects to the bulkhead that the main stingers connect to under the floor. I ran it for about 2 full summers and still have not finished the floor and interior with any floor paint or whatever yet as I wanted to see what would crack if anything. I did have some of the front outside stringer pull and separate some from the hull after a big ass wave I hit at about 85 but it was the original chopper gun glass. I fixed that and glassed some more all along the outside stringers up and over and it has been all good. I will be painting the floor in a few weeks to finally say it is done, or done enough for me! And remember to connect the top cap outside stringers to the transom. Many are not and are about 1-2 inches short. I built a big knee to connect it all to the transom and floor. Now once I loaded my pics I think I over did this post but since it is all there just let me know if you want me to delete any of this as it feels like too much to post on anothers thread!
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LakeFever
06-28-2021, 09:25 AM
Awesome RJ! Thank you I really appreciate the input. More pics and info the better far as im concerned

tnelsmn
06-28-2021, 06:37 PM
Thats a good point about reinforcing before bedding stringers. I forgot that I laid up 4" 1708 tape above the core before setting the stringers to give more strength. Dissipating impact loads on the stringers over thicker glass above the core could prolong the life of the core. I think the plan to lay over a second time is a good idea. As you stated the sacrifice of a few extra pounds in worth it for longevity and strength.

Tony.

LakeFever
06-28-2021, 07:33 PM
I’m thinking about laying 1808 down for the second layer.... more directions to spread the load right?

LakeFever
07-02-2021, 04:55 PM
Plugging away

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rjdubiel
07-06-2021, 09:26 AM
you see how you went up and out with the core up the freeboard and core is in front of where the floor sits, that is perfect. I nosed into a big ass wakeboard wake yesterday and my hull cracked right where the core ended by my right foot when driving. If I would have done it like you did it would not have broke. Needless to say this week I will be adding core like you did in front of the floor and up the freeboard of the hull on each side! I added a picture of the inside of the crack after I ground to the core on the outside of the hull. you can see the crack in the epoxy but the glass is still intact but damaged. But one layer of glass is not enough! I suggest 2 layers of 1708 or 1808 where there are transitions from core to hull, or stringer to hull, or floor to hull.
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tnelsmn
07-06-2021, 09:32 AM
I was going to come here and show the same thing, RJ. Starting to think about adding more to mine over winter.

rjdubiel
07-06-2021, 09:46 AM
No more trying to get across big wakes fast. Just slow down! haha. My kid though the boat needed some bubbles to cheer it up after it got "hurt" as she said.
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XstreamVking
07-06-2021, 10:55 AM
That area takes a beating.....

LakeFever
07-06-2021, 11:31 AM
Wow RJ thanks for posting and Tony man your suggestion and my careful reading of you guys build threads is why I did the extra core up front. I also ran two layers of 1708 on the hull under the core in that area because this hull im working on was beat up badly in that area and I wanted it beefier. I think I may just double up the 1708/1808 across the top of the entire core as well. I know the wakeboard wake fear is real I have hit those things rolling off in the middle of nowhere so hard to see in the wrong conditions where its "calm" and there is no light to contrast and they have that hard lip no break almost seamless waves with sharp lips and WHAM!!! I've nailed a few and it hurts for sure!

I got swamped a few times in my vandal its not a big water hull at all you have to go over wakes slowly and diagonally. BEWARE of these types of hulls..., they are the new lake demon waker makers.

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mrichartz
07-06-2021, 01:52 PM
Quote...
Now once I loaded my pics I think I over did this post but since it is all there just let me know if you want me to delete any of this as it feels like too much to post on anothers thread!

It's all good info that they/others can use..and are always more helpful w lots of pics...!

rjdubiel
07-06-2021, 02:04 PM
Quote...
It's all good info that they/others can use..and are always more helpful w lots of pics...!

too bad that photo bucket did what they did or there would be way more pics on this site! We lost a lot of visual content because of those clowns.

LakeFever
07-06-2021, 03:34 PM
Yep for sure PB messed up a lot of great threads on a ton of forums. Well, it doesn't much look like anything fancy but theres 3 layers of CSM and 25 layers of 1708/1808 in the bow eye now. I'm going to patch up the outside and drill this and hope to end up over 1/2" thick and skip the wood entirely.

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LakeFever
07-09-2021, 01:14 PM
We got a new plan for the second layer over the core. The hull was ground quite a bit before I got it so I was planning to skin the entire inside with 1708 anyways so now the plan is to lay the 50"w pieces of 1708 from side to side in one piece over the core. From lip to lip from one side to the other. This way we reinforce the core support and the hull skin in one go. Plus we have the method down now for big lays without kicking resin. Refrigerating the resin for 6 hours prior and catalyzing closer to 1% with the whiz rollers is the ticket for us. It doesnt look like we will get any more glass laid in for a few weeks at least as there is a lot of life going on right now but we have a plan and Im amped to get back to this

rjdubiel
07-14-2021, 11:11 PM
Took your idea. This will do, it is not going to crack again. Haha
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LakeFever
07-15-2021, 05:43 AM
Thank Tony he was the one who suggested it I didn’t know squat when I started this process I just did what you guys had done and suggested haha. Good to see you got that repair done so fast though, wish we were working on this thing now but it’s going to be a little bit yet.

ive been starting to sort out the powerhead i decided to rebuild the 200efi to start with. I want to raise the rpm limiter and maybe reflash the computer but I don’t know where to start with that. A tuning software would be nice

LakeFever
07-17-2021, 04:01 PM
Motor build thread

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?358794-98-200FF-build-lots-of-pics-lots-of-questions-hopefully-not-lots-of-mistakes!&p=3296753#post3296753

LakeFever
08-09-2021, 03:48 PM
Back at this today. Test fit the cap back on and what a feel good moment to see the lines again. We stared for a good ten minutes at it and both said it just somehow looks 10x more solid than before. We did some lip repair to the hull no pics of that and tomorrow we are going to grind down the transom a little to fit the cap better, sand the hull over the core glass and then we are onto the final hull glass and transom glassing. Then stringers, drain tube, and floor. Feels great to be back at this

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tnelsmn
08-09-2021, 10:43 PM
Pretty good feeling setting the deck back down, even if you have to take it off agin. It's looking good, glad to see progress on the hull!

LakeFever
08-10-2021, 03:30 PM
Barely got going today and work came up so had to bail. We did get the transom fit to the cap nicely and the cap back off the hull ready for glass and that was it. We are focused and determined to get a LOT more done soon.

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LakeFever
08-11-2021, 02:49 PM
We sanded, all damn day. I tell ya this much i wont be using ANY 1808 anywhere i have to sand it. Now that the resin is fully cured its all but impossible to sand it smooth. Its reassuring to realize its strength but it was not fun at all to prep for more. Secondary bonding without sanding on the Derakane is 7-10 days, wish I hadn't gone past that. Cooked a day sanding but its done now, all good.

Ready to lay glass tomorrow, relaxing the first sheet tonight, resin in the fridge :D


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rjdubiel
08-11-2021, 04:04 PM
THIS IS WHY I JUST BUST OUT THE GRINDER!!! You said it, nothing sucks more than trying to sand this stuff after a week or two after it cures. I just roll it out in the driveway, powder up with baby powder, and go to town with the grinder. Sucks ass but its the fastest way to get it done as you do not care much about it being nice and smooth when putting more over it again!

LakeFever
08-12-2021, 05:04 PM
Got that piece of glass laid in today and work came up again so that was as far as we got. We could have glassed the entire hull today we have the speed of pour and roll down well now. We left excess over the edge to trim after curing

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LakeFever
08-13-2021, 02:00 PM
Not a lot to update today, just some cabosil to fill the voids and a small patch of 1708 where we discovered a slice from whoever stripped the hull. In the pic on the left halfway down you can see it. Next is to sand the cabosil, add more if needed, and mainly focus on laying 1708 over the remaining hull and begin tabbing and glassing in the transom with 1708 tape

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LakeFever
08-17-2021, 03:40 PM
Hull is glassed! Transom glassing has begun. Next day we will wrap up transom glass and then we are onto stringers

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tnelsmn
08-17-2021, 03:54 PM
Look at all that purdy 1708, looks like it laid down really well too.

LakeFever
08-17-2021, 04:59 PM
Ya it went in pretty good. We get better and better at it each time. I now use the whizz like a squeegee and slide the air out. Works slick. The process that works best is prime the area to be laid with a thin coat of vinylester and let cure about an hr up to a couple of days. It stays tacky that long. Then I hand lay the 1708 and work it carefully into the nooks first and then I roll it smooth so there’s no real pockets of air when we wet it out. Then we wet it all out through the top which takes a little time but it’s easy with the whizz. Push out any air and on we go.

excited to get some stringers in this thing

LakeFever
08-18-2021, 06:10 AM
In case some of you guys wonder what Im talking about with these Whizz rollers these are the things Im using. When I say squeegee if you push hard enough the roller fluff/matt flattens out and you can just smear the roller over the glass like a super smooth, soft, conforming squeegee. The end is covered in fluff/nap to so you can stab these into corners like the transom nooks and I got all the air out easy this way. With a finned bubble roller this would be very difficult. They do soak up about 50ml of resin that gets wasted each time but its a small price to pay for the performance. I haven't used my finned roller once since I got onto these Whizz rollers. Im using the micro fiber ones with the blue stripe rated for all paints. Handles are cheap local paint shop $2ea. I have had a couple rollers drop some of their material off in the glass lays but its easy to pick up while still wet or sand after cure. Minimal and only one roller type did this it might have been a cheapo we have had a few types. I think im using Purdy at the moment, seem good. Heres what they look like


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To give you guys an idea of time we poured and rolled out those two 52" wide lays in the pics above ( approx 1/2 the hull, probably more) in about an hr. I've been pre-filling 1qt. resin cups and catalyzing one at a time as we go. One Whizz each did both those lays. The back corner pieces we used another two because we took a break in between. Once the surface gets vertical we have to use a paint tray ( bought cheap liners for this ) and dip/roll like paint. Pouring on the vertical surfaces is too sloppy and hard to control but on the flatter areas its easy. One hand to pour, one hand to roll. A couple places in those lays there is 3 overlapping layers of 1708, all done dry, rolled down through with pour technique. FWIW These rollers are slick for any paint jobs where you would want to use a brush these cut application time down a lot and leave a smoother finish. My helper is a painter by trade and says brushes are for cutting in and thats it. Theres a roller or sprayer for everything else LOL

XstreamVking
08-18-2021, 08:26 AM
The function of the finned rollers is to compress the glass down thru the resin layer. What you are doing with the fuzzzy rollers is good with a single layer, but the old fashioned finned rollers are just a little bit better. More than 1 layer and you better go over it with a finned roller to compact the fibers tightly to the surface. JM 2cts.

LakeFever
08-18-2021, 09:09 AM
That sure does make sense. We are installing these lays dry though, and forcing the resin through and once wet? We stop. These lays are taking quite a bit less resin than my method before of pre wet surface with brush, lay glass, tab with brush til wet, finned roller finish. With the Whizz we are using approx 25% less resin overall. Keep in mind I had laid all of two piece of small roving glass 20+ years ago repairing a snowmobile cowl and that was the sum of my experience before we began this boat restoration. We have improved a lot since we began so that could add to the fact we are using less resin now.

I do keep track and as a guide it takes us 1.5ml of resin per square inch of 1708 with the brush tabbing and finned roller method vs 1.2-1.3ml of resin per square inch with the whizz. Those numbers sound about right?

rjdubiel
08-18-2021, 10:05 AM
Your looking good. Fantastic laminate it looks like

LakeFever
08-18-2021, 10:27 AM
Thanks much we are pleased with it so far. I spoke with my helper ( he aint here today ) and he did say it was hard work smooshing through the three layer section with the whizz and that is our first attempt so far at more than one or two so when we do the transom which will be more I will definitely fin roller over it. Thanks for the guidance Xstream, RJ, Tony and all you guys I really appreciate it.

LakeFever
08-19-2021, 07:36 AM
Got some transom glass in yesterday as well as some 4" tape under the outside stringer path. I fin rolled over the lays after whizz and on the transom especially i got a darker look so it does push the mat down just as Xstream said should be done. Thanks for that catch. I wanted to go up and right over the transom and over the outside skin in one go but with the funky curve to wrap and the sides and the base lip, i decided it would be too complex so I lipped off the back and will be going up and over on another lay. Going for 4-5 layers over the transom inside. It feels so solid already, which is awesome

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rjdubiel
08-19-2021, 08:28 AM
looking good. I don't think you need that many layers on the inside. I did 1 layer across it all but then with the knees and tabbing to the hull and the deck, you cover it again and even again where the bolts will be. But again, it will be bulletproof and will make it till we are all long gone and dead!

LakeFever
08-19-2021, 02:08 PM
I dont know why some of my posts have those extra pics attached from previous posts? Weird. I cant seem to delete them either lol. Oh well

Today we laid in the final piece of 1708 over the core at the back where it ties into the transom. We also laid one piece of 1708 up and over the cap on both sides. We primed the transom skin with the resin from our first session so we could tack the 1708 over as I have mentioned before. Works good to get the sheets laid out flat and pre rolled before adding resin. Going to lay in one more layer over the entire inside of the transom and that'll be it for complete lays. We will add more tabs after we get the stringers sorted out and support the bolt areas with more layers. Speaking of stringers, we are going to make some tomorrow. Turning a corner here

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XstreamVking
08-19-2021, 04:15 PM
Looking downright spiffy and tight....Very neat glass work..

LakeFever
08-20-2021, 11:44 AM
Xstream thank you, we feel like we won a prize ribbon seeing you say that because your boat as well as Tonys, RJ's and Outasites are major inspirations for us. We have referenced you guys builds many times over during our layup plans.

Speaking of layup, we are at a bit of a crossroads here with respect to the stringers and the knees specifically. We doubled up the core in the pad, and we used 5/8" core so the stringers are only going to be 3" high which is fine im sure it will be strong enough but the knees off the transom we feel might be not so ideal being 1/2" thick terminating into 3" height plus it does make fabricating the fuel tank quite a bit more involved. So we took another good look at your knees Xstream and we really like how open the fuel tank area is this way, plus we then get to use the 3/4" for the knees and if we place them in a similar layout as yours we can build and fit a 42 Gallon fuel cel thats square which is appealing on time.

With the Coosa being a wide span and no center support we are thinking to add in 4 total layers of 1708 across the transom and 1 layer of 1808. We feel this along with the above floor Xstream style knees will be more than enough support for whatever motor we end up hanging off the back of this thing. Plus as mentioned this does make the fuel tank fab a lot easier ( faster to finish too )

What say you guys?

XstreamVking
08-20-2021, 12:06 PM
42 gals is too big imo, I have 28 gals and it's perfect for me. I also ran a penske 1.5''x 3'' thick beam on edge across the transom from the sides of the knees. Fits between the engine bolts. up fairly hi to not get in the way of the tank. Tank actually rests against the trans at the bottom. Made some slats of 1/2'' penske in to give air space under the tank also.

rjdubiel
08-20-2021, 12:31 PM
42 gallons will sink the boat! haha. That is a lot of fuel and weight.

LakeFever
08-20-2021, 12:44 PM
Right, 42 gall too big, so thats good to know that means I have more than enough room to build whatever tank, probably be around 30 gallons thanks for that info. I just referenced the factory tank and its 20 gallons which I thought was a bit too small. My Valero tank was considerably bigger ( ten year newer boat ) id guess it was in the 30 range I never did measure or check it but it was a great rig for cruising long hauls especially with the small carb 135 that thing went some distance on a tank.

Tank aside thats a solid tip re the beam across the transom tying into the knees I like that idea, almost like an i-beam. I think if we do that then we would be more than covered on strength.

For the floor we are using 1/2 coosa and I was planning to cover both sides with 1208 before core bonding it down. Does that pass the sniff test?

LakeFever
08-20-2021, 01:21 PM
One more quick question; Scarf joint bonding the coosa? We are doing a 8:1 scarf and regarding bonding them we were thinking one of two approaches; coat both pieces with vinyester and use one piece of CSM in between? Or just a straight vinylester bond with no CSM?

XstreamVking
08-20-2021, 01:39 PM
Just need some 1.5 oz mat under the floor to seal the penske. 1.5 oz Mat on top of the floor with 1 8'' wide layer of 1708 around the perimeter covered in 1.5 oz torn mat for tailing. . This is how my floor is made. And use some mat in the scarf.

LakeFever
08-20-2021, 04:19 PM
Scarf cut came out so good the matt was making a bad joint so we hit it with straight resin, clamped it, and we'll see how it comes out. Made a router sled and base for this. Worked great


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tnelsmn
08-22-2021, 12:46 AM
I'm also going to parrot the other two and say 42 is huge. Doing the geometry on my tank after I finished it came out at just shy of 23gal. First trip to the fuel pump I was able to get 21 in it. Most times I fill from the pump directly into the tank with the gauge close to E I'm able to get 15-18gal into it. Bring along a few VP Racing "Utility Jugs" if you want to ride longer.

Edit: I forgot to mention, when my tank is filled to the top and I stand in the back of the boat the rub rail is in the water.

LakeFever
08-23-2021, 03:33 PM
Yeah my last Vking was a tail dragger when the tank was full too. I'll aim for around 30 gallons.

Back to stringers the scarf joints worked out perfectly. We did some hardy twisting and these things are bonded so well I believe these joints are as strong as the board itself. What a relief. Today we managed to fit up the two outside stringers and that was it. We worked the gap to about 1/8th of an inch which looks good to me. The pic of the stringer is sitting loose not in exact position but you get the idea. Many things happening for the next week so not much is going to happen until next week we will put another push into this. We have a plan laid out which helps.

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LakeFever
08-30-2021, 07:28 PM
Got the floor fit and the front bulkhead fit and tabbed in with some csm just to hold it so we can fit up the center stringers tomorrow

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XstreamVking
09-02-2021, 08:27 AM
Is that where your original floor was placed? Mine was and is the next strake up. Makes no difference, just curious.

LakeFever
09-02-2021, 09:39 AM
I believe so but I bought this hull stripped bare so I don’t know for sure. I think it’s just the angle of the pic and the double 5/8” core in the pad plus high wrapped up core on the sides that’s making it look different. The floor is 42”W x 8’L

rjdubiel
09-02-2021, 09:45 AM
That is where it goes.

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mrichartz
09-02-2021, 09:51 AM
His must be wrong probably wont ride right.. lol whos..

I annoyed a few people when i did my 380 lazer we lifted the floor up a few inches and changed some because want to make it like a tank but as light as possible
Because would run it in ruff water going out the inlet etc..
But dtill wanted ot as fast as fricken possible and it was..
(Actually even myself a little when it was done didn't realize how much a few inches was untill i tried to go under the deck to do something lol..)

XstreamVking
09-02-2021, 02:05 PM
I only asked because I have seen so many variations over the years on all of the streams. It makes no difference like I said before. Might be better....

LakeFever
09-02-2021, 03:02 PM
All good, and something to think about for sure. My last vking had a floor the same config as this so did my Valero. I never really thought to look at others for differences in the floor. If I take the floor up a strake it would bed in where my outside stringers go. Might be stronger especially if I wrapped core up to it. The radius’d part of the hull between the core/floor and outside stringers is just glass. I do have whatever factory glass is there plus two additional layers of 1708 over it because there was a couple holes where the floor removal got a bit aggressive I guess so I added some 9” wide strips there at the beginning of the build and then the full edge to edge lays over the core.

XstreamVking
09-02-2021, 04:55 PM
Only real difference is how hi you sit in the boat. You can see my big head above the w/s quite a ways. I also have a v shaped floor in the front sump floor area. I added that. Was open before and it always felt uncomfortable. I sit with my legs and rt. foot at the perfect angle for the foot throttle now. And can brace with my left foot.

LakeFever
09-02-2021, 06:46 PM
I was going to follow tnels front floor style but if you have pics of yours that would be awesome to see what you did there. I’m going to add some seat boxes because seated comfort is more important to me than less wind in my face

XstreamVking
09-04-2021, 05:24 AM
I will get the kid to post some pics of it. I made some slick (I think) seat boxes from a simple mold. Very light and very strong. Open under so you can stow dock lines etc. **** Crappy pics on page 4 of the top build thread of the seat bases and the front floor. Foot throttle block. I did glass the bases to the floor and have a slide feature on the seats now. Just saw that I lost the 2nd thread somehow? Damn.....

LakeFever
09-12-2021, 09:07 AM
Been chipping away here and there where we can. We got the center stringers cut and started to tab them in with 1708 and cabosil thickened resin. Speaking of resin aside from the priming of the balsa and the fairing csm over the core bond at the edges of the core we have done all lays using derakane and the strength is really becoming apparent now. This thing is rigid.

We added two more lays over the transom. One 1808 and one 1708 so that makes the inside transom skin 4 layers thick and one more tabbed at the edges. Four layers of 1708 and one layer of 1808 in total. We ran the lays well past the transom edge all the way to the corner and intervals in between. We are comfortable now that this transom is good to go.

So far we only have one 4” tab of 1708 tape on one side of the center stringers. We will be adding two tabs per side and two tabs over top of each stringer. I have a formula that works well for estimating resin needs for 1708 and it’s 0.65ml for every square inch of 1708. I’m trying to work out a formula for thickened resin but not having much luck so far. It’s an add what you need method at the moment. A little wasteful but not terrible.

once the stringers are all tabbed in we will be making the front bulkhead stringer and forward floor then it’s gel time.

We are thinking of simple ways to hold the outer stringers in place for bonding to the hull but haven’t really come up with anything we like yet. Any suggestions?

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tnelsmn
09-12-2021, 09:31 AM
Looking good. What do you plan on using for a plug block, stacking some scrap coosa?

This was a simple way to hold the stringers while they bonded, Uses a bit of wood which is still expensive these days.

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LakeFever
09-12-2021, 09:54 AM
Thanks. Haven’t done the plug block yet but yes the plan is a couple pieces of coosa. Figured it was best to complete the stringer tabbing in first before we make that piece.

couple other things I forgot to mention I ordered a new sea star xstream jack plate 4” set back and some radio stuff. Speakers and whatnot. I was on the fence with the jack plate consisting three options. Atlas, sea star, or build one. The reason I wanted to build one was to get less set back. I’m pretty sure I could fab one that has an inch or two tops of set back but I just didn’t think I would have the time. There’s already enough projects been shelved while we do the hull. I ended up with the seas star over the atlas because I prefer the look, it matches all the steering I have and I like the smart stick sender with pro tap. I haven’t bought the protap yet but I did get the smart stick and gauge

LakeFever
09-21-2021, 05:50 PM
Stringers have two lays of 1708 and cabosil thickened resin fillets. One 4” and one 8” on both sides of each stringer and the same over the top to cap it. One 4” and one 8”. We will be tabbing in the front bulkhead with the same layup inside and out.

Plan is to drill drain holes at the rear of the stringers and one in the center of the front bulkhead. We won’t be drilling drain holes in the side cavities of the front bulkhead, instead we will vent them with a small hole either side through the top rear of the floor. This creates two sealed air chambers in the core area should the boat ever see water it should bob nose up and those two air cavities will be sealed and hopefully float the hull or at least slow down the process.


we were wondering today if it’s even worth gel coating over the core under the floor? Being vinylester which is 100% water proof and so many layers we thought maybe not needed? Knowing me I’ll probably do it anyways but I’m open to thoughts on this


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tnelsmn
09-21-2021, 06:12 PM
Looks good, Lake! Brings back some good memories of that process of my build. You really feel like progress is being made at that point.

My plug block went in after the stringers were fully glassed in as well.

If vinylester is completely waterproof gelcoat seems un necessary. Just my .02 from a fellow amateur:cheers:

Tony

rjdubiel
09-21-2021, 06:26 PM
I used all glass on the plug. My viper was done the same way. About 1/2 thick at the drain hole of glass then drilled and installed the brass tube.

LakeFever
09-21-2021, 07:19 PM
Ya I’m thinking we might just skip the gel under the floor it’s just another step to save time at this point plus it does allow me to keep a close eye on the condition of the core. Consider me convinced. As for this stage we felt like this was a big moment because we are both large size dudes and getting in that awkward slope floor on our knees tabbing that in without stuffing a foot in the resin more than three times ( ok maybe it was four ) it’s sure nice to know the hardest to do lays in the whole build are now done!

as for the drain plug I don’t know why I never thought of that all glass tip. I do have some coosa off cuts which won’t rot and it might be quicker but the all glass approach sounds good too. Definitely will ponder that. Thanks for the tips and encouragement boys.

LakeFever
09-22-2021, 10:30 AM
Working on the footwell floor. Marked the center line of the floor, laid out a straight edge to guide the template. Marking and cutting the notch after lunch so Tony if your out there and can reply we'd like to know how high is your center stringer in the footwell? We are going with your design. no need to change whats already ballin :cheers:

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tnelsmn
09-22-2021, 11:01 AM
I’m at my side job today. Got a few more hours here before I’m home. I’ll grab some measurements when I get home.

LakeFever
09-22-2021, 11:16 AM
We might take a guess, we just had coffee and we are twitchy. Looks like 2-3" tall by eye

LakeFever
09-22-2021, 03:34 PM
We split it down the middle. The bulkhead is 6" high so we cut the footwell stringer down to 3". We cut the front floor section out and need to make one rib, the footwell floor, and that will be that for the floor and stringer fab. If you look close at the back of the notched stringer you can see my marker line where the footwell floor will be out to those two marks on either side. We were thinking the one center stringer as shown would be enough for strength but I would really like to hear opinions on this as its simply a guess on our part. We have zero knowledge of what was in here or whats the standard. Im really trying to build a quality hull but also trying to save time wherever possible at this point. I know Tony your hull has three little stringers under the footwell but we have two layers of 1708 under and over the core in this area so maybe thats enough?

Thoughts?

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tnelsmn
09-22-2021, 06:50 PM
Lake,

Here's a picture of the footwell in comparison to the floor.

The three stringers below my footwell happened mainly because I wanted the two main stringers to be as long as possible. I ended them when they were approximately 1" tall, I figured any less than that was pointless. Thats kinda where they ended up. I had no plans for the center forward stringer initially but was advised to add one by the folks around here. Mine is completely overkill at this point and I believe one in the center will be sufficient to support the footwell.

Tony.

Hippie459MN
09-22-2021, 07:37 PM
Ya'll got tiny foot wells. Here is the one in my Vulture. Maybe its cause the vking floor is narrower and lower maybe.

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LakeFever
09-23-2021, 06:32 AM
Thanks guys. Hippie it looks like yours is just core and no sub floor which I like but my hull was so bashed up in this area I’m wanting all the support I can get without totally losing my footwell. Further I’m tall so I really need the space making this even more of a thing to want. I am planning to add seat boxes around 4” high which I will test out with the cap on before glassing anything in. Thankfully we didn’t bond anything in yesterday so I will check mine and compare with yours Tony and see where this all ends up.

we are very pleased to be at this stage finally but we are both a little rattled at how little time we have been able to work on this build. We are not even averaging a day per week which is wayyyyy less than we initially planned. If we had two solid weeks with no interruptions I believe we could have the structure complete and gel’d with the cap bonded back on and start refinishing the running surface.

speaking of the running surface we will be stripping off all the factory gel and I’m thinking we might lay a layer of csm with vinylester over the entire cored area of the hull to simplify repairs and to add some durability to the factory glass which is kinda weak now that I’m used to working with the Ve resin.

LakeFever
09-23-2021, 04:40 PM
Front stringer tabbed in two layers 1708 each side and two over top. Also began tabbing the bulkhead in. A little more to do inside the stringers and that will be it for tabbing these all in. Outer stringers next then floor or maybe vice versa



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Hippie459MN
09-23-2021, 05:48 PM
Thanks guys. Hippie it looks like yours is just core and no sub floor which I like but my hull was so bashed up in this area I’m wanting all the support I can get without totally losing my footwell. Further I’m tall so I really need the space making this even more of a thing to want. I am planning to add seat boxes around 4” high which I will test out with the cap on before glassing anything in. Thankfully we didn’t bond anything in yesterday so I will check mine and compare with yours Tony and see where this all ends up.

I just have the core and stringers and the floor on top of the stringers. I am also tall (6' 2"). I was going to put a short seat box in it but I would have sat up so tall so pretty much put my seats on the floor. Whoever redid the boat (very poorly might I add) before I got it, left the original seat box but redid the floor from the seat box back so it wasnt much higher, maybe in inch or so, than the floor they put in. I think the original floor would have been smaller and lower.

Also, here is what the original footwell looked like. It did have a small subfloor I guess you would call it. I did away with it but the box up front is the same size as the original and in the same place.

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By the way, your build is looking great! :)

LakeFever
09-23-2021, 06:16 PM
My first stream was an 88 valero and it had quite high rising seats. I didn’t measure but I would guess the metal bases were 5 or 6” high and I really like comfort of that boat. I was riding high way above the windshield but I could sit and cruise comfortable all day. My last Vking had the seats directly on the floor which was good for head height but sucked for comfort. I’m aiming for middle ground and hope to get a comfy seating position that doesn’t have me up so high it looks weird

tnelsmn
09-23-2021, 08:17 PM
The factory back to back seats I rebuilt and put in mine have the top of the front edge at about 8" above the floor. The drop down to about 6" at the back edge of the seat to give the angled bottom. These are 1" shorter than the original bases that I copied. I'm 6' tall and find them very comfortable, but I'm also 34. This height puts my head above the windshield and eye line far above the windshield rail. But the wind hits me at the top of the forehead like a well fitted motorcycle windshield would. Boat is very comfortable cruising at 70 as far as wind is concerned.

Lake, I should add before you get too far. If I had to do mine over agin I would skip those seat mounts I made and just put the T nuts right into the floor from the bottom side before putting the floor in. Not sure if you were planning a design like that or not but figured I'd mention it.

LakeFever
09-23-2021, 08:27 PM
Thanks for the measurements that’s helpful. I have a newer Vking interior so it’s buckets and rear bench going in. The buckets are decent but the bench is a bit soft so I’m going to use it as a pattern and build a new one. All of it needs to be recovered so that’s something I’ll farm out. Seat boxes I think will be simple square boxes to fit under the buckets and I’m going to try and hinge them so I can have some storage under there. Maybe 10” square, 4” high. It ain’t much but I’ll take anything I can get for tool kit and maybe some oil cans.

LakeFever
09-24-2021, 02:40 PM
Outer stringers are in. We still have a ways to go but so far we have used a pail of corebond, 13 gallons of resin and a ton of 1708, A fair bit of 1808 and almost no CSM yet. The structure is almost completely fabricated we have to glass it in now. Remaining we have one front rib, the floor, the footwell floor, transom knees, a battery tray, a foot throttle tray, seat boxes, and thats it for the hull. Then we move onto the deck!

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LakeFever
10-02-2021, 03:46 AM
Cap went back on to test for seat box height. Ideally 4” total would be perfect and I have some seat tracks that are 1” high so the seat boxes will be 3” high. We test fit all the floor pieces and I will be trimming the footwell rib down 1/2” from where it is now. We tabbed and capped in the outside stringers as well. Got a good system for capping now that gets a nice tight fit. We fold a crease down the tab beige laying the cap piece on and resin and bubble roll one side only. Once that side is down tight I pull the cap over and down the other side which results in some really tight caps. Lays again are one 4” tab and one 8” tab per side with two caps; one 4”, one 8”. The hull now seems solid enough to run it as is without the cap or the floor bonded in. I detect no flex at all lifting the front up off the cradle. Very pleased with the results thus far.

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LakeFever
10-06-2021, 06:12 PM
Milestone day. Floors in! We covered the bottom side of all floor pieces with 1.5oz csm yesterday and set the floors in on fat beads of corebond today using the ziplock bag piping trick. Core bond is very difficult to fare when wet so this time we really did very little fairing with it. Just enough to fill whatever voids we could and that’s it. The rest will be filled with thickened resin when we lay glass tabbing this all in. It was a hugely satisfying moment to finally get these floors laid in today. Feels like we have it under control for the first time in a while. So many days of little wins and tasks that seemed to continually pile up. It’s a lot of little tabs to get all the bulkheads and stringers tabbed in and capped. Far more than I thought it would be. We also drilled some drain holes in the bulkhead and rear of the stringers. I coated them with two layers of vinylester to seal them after chamfering and a quick sand. We also put a couple coats of resin in the bilge area to make a clear line of site to the core so over time we can keep an eye on it.

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tnelsmn
10-06-2021, 06:16 PM
Looks good! Thats a big milestone!

LakeFever
10-08-2021, 07:55 PM
We are glassed in!! What a big lay today was. When we laid the csm on the underside of the floor the other day after it cured there were quite a few tiny white pinholes from the little pimple size cavities in the coosa. We used corebond just like spot putty and filled all the little dimples before laying in the glass. We also made some transition pieces out of coosa to angle the floor up to meet the core 1/2”-5/8” and used more corebond to fare the edges out a bit smoother and hit all seams with thickened resin when we laid the glass in. We ran 4” 1708 tape around the perimeter of all floor sections and three lays of 1708 across it all, one for the main floor, one for the footwell, one for the front floor. It was a ton of work but a boat load of fun. Really enjoying this phase

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LakeFever
10-13-2021, 06:21 AM
Made some seat boxes and a battery tray and started on the knees. After some deciphering we came up with a way to laminate the knees into the upper deck stringers and tie the battery tray into that as well. Should be fairly simple and we need the deck restoration complete to lay these in so we switched gears and began to work on the deck. Messy and itchy but a bit of a fun change of pace

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LakeFever
10-14-2021, 03:55 PM
Stripping, sanding, preparing on the deck. One more day of this and it should be ready to start laying material back in. Scarfed two coosa stringers for the sides today as well. We will be using core bond to bed them into the hull and we will be laying a layer of 1808 over the inside walls of the deck first because I have lots of it left and want to use it somewhere and the sides are so skimpy theres almost nothing to them now that we have stripped out the factory stringers. We are also going to lay one layer over the entire underside of the deck a combo of 1708 tape and 1808 lays and will also be coring the deck. There is a single piece of pink colored foam core under the deck now. It does look like it was installed during manufacturing but I dont know if they had these foam cores back then?

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LakeFever
10-22-2021, 08:39 PM
Ran a layer of 1808 around the inside of the deck in prep for stringers
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LakeFever
11-04-2021, 03:48 PM
Bonded in deck stringers today

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LakeFever
11-08-2021, 12:49 PM
Dash and rear stringer in

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tnelsmn
11-09-2021, 06:03 PM
You're doing great work on this build. This is going to be a very nice boat when finished!

LakeFever
11-09-2021, 07:20 PM
Thanks Tony, we are giving er our all as I always do with my work. It’s not the best, but it is my best. We cleaned up the cap a little today and will be laying 1708 on the sides of the stringers that will lay out to the edges of the cap so just like the hull, we will have added one layer of 1708 over the entire cap which should balance out the strength. We were going to wrap 1708 around the stringers and up into the sides of the interior walls but the fit and finish level of the core bonded stringers is really clean and we don’t want to add all that extra work to fair it all back out so we are only doing the sides. Seeing as we ran 1808 before bonding in the stringers we have supported both sides of the stinger with structural glass which is wayyy more than the factory put in. The original stringers were all held in with a bit of chop gun and that was all. We are also going to core the deck and add the front stringer and brace. I had these little 1/4” stamped beam clamps that work perfectly for lining up the cracks in the edge so we can get it flat and avoid adding unnecessary thickness. I wouldn’t care to thicken the edge rail area but I have bought Ranger bass boat run rail and it only has a 3-/16” gap so I have to be careful keeping the lip tight. Anyways some pics of today’s work

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LakeFever
11-12-2021, 08:57 AM
Fit up the forward braces and core for the deck. Strange thing with this core being that it came with the purchase of the boat and the guy was explaining he had some idea to run core only with glass stringers over some removable mould idea none of which concerned me much because I wanted a good lake boat. The guy had cut the core up into all these strips and pieces and neither of us could make a damn bit of sense what this guy was trying to do. We did lay it all in the hull before we started just to see what the plan was and to us it seemed as if there was no plan because none of it fit anywhere well. Thankfully there were still many new uncut sheets. But for the deck core we had to use the leftover bits and the funny thing is, this little pile of off cuts is all thats left of the core that came with the boat. It was literally the perfect amount of core to do what we needed. Thought it funny

Regarding laying up the deck, Tony what did you do to retain the shape of the cap? We decided to flip it over again to test fit before laying the core and 1808 to the edge plan in case of shift and the drivers side at the back i had already patched the riggin holes from below and it has tweaked the side high so we have to squeeze it down now to get the cap to fit on the hull in that area. It made us both nervous and we are contemplating not running any new glass out to the edges just to keep the flexibility there so we can bond it without putting it out of shape facing a lot of resistance squeezing it back together. The hull being core to the bow eye will not flex even a tiny bit anymore it is completely fixxed in its position. Anyways looking forward to hearing thoughts on this

I also attached a couple pics of the beam clamps that work so well for lining up cracks. With such a small touch area we will run the glass out and then clamp this right over the wet lay, it should work out good.

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LakeFever
11-12-2021, 06:41 PM
Got some knees made up today. Inch and a quarter thick. Ran a 1/4” router around the leading edge, might increase that to 3/8”. The knees will be bonded into the deck stringers and to the splashwell which we decided to retain. After we lay 1808 on the bottom side of the splashwell it will also serve as a nice horizontal brace for the transom between the knees. Got the seat boxes position sorted out and started on the foot throttle bracket. Going to run the seatstar pedal and a hand control and will do the dual cable switcheroo when I want one or the other type thing. I’ll probably be on the pedal for most of the first year.

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tnelsmn
11-16-2021, 09:41 PM
Lake, I didn't really do anything to retain the shape of the deck when working on it. Looking back I probably should've supported it more.
For the most part I didn't run any new glass out to the edge of the deck, other than the coremat. The one thing that comes to mind was having a 4x4 under the very tip of the bow to hold the deck up while it was upside down so it didn't sag when adding the core and the upper stringers. The bare deck wanted to flex a bunch at the dash.
I did end up having to fight the deck a bit to get it back on. The worst was the wings where I added the coremat, but I was able to get everything to flex into place.

LakeFever
11-17-2021, 05:47 AM
Thanks that’s helpful. We supported the deck evenly under the dash and at the front cross brave of the splashwell it seemed to sit pretty well but it did get more floppy when we stripped the stringers out. Mine had some core on the bow already which also helped. We have decided to spot repair the cracks on the edge of the cap and not run full lays out to the edge as planned. This way the whole perimeter from the first ridge out will be factory glass only which is quite flexible. Then after we bond the cap we will assess and see if we need to lay more.

LakeFever
11-19-2021, 04:43 PM
Got a little more glass laid in today as well as the forward brace. Primed the deck for the core


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LakeFever
11-22-2021, 06:44 PM
Poking away slowly here and there for an hour or two. Hoping to get a push going soon to wrap it up. Deck core bonded, laid some 1708 over the side stringers. More lays coming to the deck next then we will flip it and bond the hull knees, seat boxes, battery tray, which are already to go and fab the foot throttle position then gel and bond them together. Getting close

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tnelsmn
11-26-2021, 12:08 PM
I am so happy with the fact I decided to put core in the bow. Never have to worry about it when climbing in after pushing off from shore etc. I'm 250lbs and can do jumping jacks on the bow and nothing moves or makes a peep.

You're on pace to have this thing in the water first thing next season.

LakeFever
11-27-2021, 04:34 PM
My Valero had a cored deck from factory and it was nice. I’ve had boats with and without and as you say there are times you need to get up there quick to prevent a bump or dock issue etc etc etc plus I have kids and I’m thinking ahead aiming more for stoutness than lightness. That said using 100% coosa has really dropped a lot of weight off this thing. I’d like to weight it when I’m done.

Onto the build we wrapped up the glass lays on the deck today. Ran 1708 over the core and we ran 1208 because its very thin to shore up the lip and over the entire underside of the deck. I went back and forth with how best to do this and I’m very pleased how this turned out. We also ran 1808 over the entire splashwell and rear cross stringer tied in all around the side stringers too. This is to provide linear strength between the motor mount bolts in lieu of a cross brace as we were planning when a splashwell delete was in the works. After laying 1708 and 1808 and comparing after cure IMO the 1808 is substantially stronger product. If I could do things over I would have laid 1808 for the first lays on the stringers and 1708 for the second. The 1808 leaves a rough grooved surface where the 1708 lays flat and smooth. Also the little beam clamps were used to align the cracks during cure. We worked the 1208 very carefully to the edges so we get a clean bond when we cut it back.

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LakeFever
11-29-2021, 07:12 PM
Sanded the transitions, cleaned up the edges, and flipped the deck back over. Core bonded the knees in place.

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LakeFever
11-30-2021, 06:39 PM
Knees tabbed in. One layer 1808 first, then a 1708 type of 45/45 stitch mat with csm. I can’t recall what it’s called but it’s similar to 1708, just stronger and not as smooth finish but they were out of stock on the regular 1708 and this is somehow better, and it sure was pricey and took a lot more resin to lay.

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LakeFever
12-03-2021, 07:52 PM
Worked on the battery tray today. Resin coated the coosa with vinylester and set it in corebond thickened with cabosil which worked really well. I laid corebond down in the taper area leading up to the stringer then set a 1”x6”w x 8”L piece of steel over a Piece of parchment paper to finish the tray area off flat. I’ll take pics tomorrow of the finished result.

I was also thinking rather than use metal or plastic tabs bolted in for the battery box strap to make fiberglass tabs to use for the strap hold downs. Hope that makes sense. Hope even more that this works out. I can’t bring myself to drill anything yet :eek:

I ended up with three times as much thickened corebond as I needed so rather than waste it I filled in holes and the dash area with it which I will follow up by laying 1708 over the dash and csm on the other areas before fairing

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Hippie459MN
12-04-2021, 11:50 AM
For the battery tray, I use these in my Vulture and in my kids Vixen and they work great! I just have some threaded inserts to hold the tray to the battery tray pads. I was thinking of going the same route with the batter strap but this worked out great for me.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LU9SJS?th=1

There are the threaded inserts that I used and epoxied them in and then put a little silicone on the screws holding the trays to keep everything as water tight as I can. Batteries dont move one single bit. They have a drive tool for installing them and trust me when I say to get it. lol

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0025PLFU2?th=1

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By the way, the build is looking great!!!!

XstreamVking
12-06-2021, 08:37 AM
That's a slick install....

LakeFever
12-06-2021, 06:01 PM
Battery tray done. Foot pedal base set in core bond as well as the seat boxes. This is the end of fabrication now it’s all about refinishing which will start with gel coating the inside and the we will bond the cap to the hull.

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tnelsmn
12-06-2021, 08:46 PM
Do you have a way to weigh the hull when you're finished? Our builds are very similar and I would be curious to see what the weight savings of the coosa is over marine plywood. If I ever build another one I plan to use coosa throughout.

LakeFever
12-07-2021, 11:10 AM
Im going to weigh it somehow, i'll figure it out. I like the coosa its been nice to work with aside from the extreme itchy factor. I got a flake that landed on my nose I didnt initially notice and I rubbed it in and it made a nasty bleeding spot for a couple weeks lol.

Tony Ive been reviewing your build thread again as we are getting to the refinishing stage and I notice what looks like Nav light wiring under the deck but I dont see any Nav lights on your hull. What did you use if any? Got pics?

LakeFever
12-07-2021, 06:16 PM
Glassed in the seat boxes with two layers of 1708 above and two layers below the seat pad. One layer tied into the deck with csm tailing. We think one layer will be enough to hold the seat boxes in, anyone think different? We also laid one layer of 1708 over the foot throttle mount. The white material is mekp activated core bond I believe it’s called B72 and it is working great under the vinylester so if anyone is worried about core bond and vinyester this is the stuff to use. Wish I knew this before using the benzo hardened green core bond that apparently has some issues with curing under vinylester although I never did try so maybe that’s fine too? Dunno.

also added a pic of the finished battery tray with corebond levelling trick. Certainly sped this process all up and fills wayyyyy better than thickened cabosil resin. It’s super light too.

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rjdubiel
12-07-2021, 07:34 PM
I am going to weigh mine as well once I get the motor off and get ready to finally finish mine and paint the floor. Will be interesting to see the difference between all three. Anyway, one layer should be good for seat boxes and mount pads

tnelsmn
12-07-2021, 11:22 PM
Lake, I don't have a decent picture with the lights on, but I do have nav lights on the bow. They're LED strips that are mounted to the underside of the rub rail. I drilled a small have through the hull just under the rail and sealed it with 4200. You really can't see them during the day, but they're very bright when running at night. This picture is not where they were mounted. I went a little further back, but you get the idea.

89LASER
12-08-2021, 03:23 PM
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transom light (upside down) and bow lights under railings

LakeFever
12-08-2021, 07:14 PM
Cool! I’m definitely looking for a sleeker look than the factory deal.

today we very lightly sanded the interior nubs and the edges of the exposed lays and hit the whole interior with tooling gel. My thinking was to use tooling gel first to help fill some of the roughness of the 1708 because we didn’t really sand it. Just a quick hit with 80 and even that ate up a lot of sanding disks. Tomorrow we are going to hit it with waxed gel and call it done. If there is time we will bond the cap down but I doubt we will do that tomorrow because I will need to lay on the gel to bond in the knees so the gel will have to be really cured up well. I’m not sure what to expect this is our first gel coat experience. Much to our surprise ( maybe I’m showing my age here ) but rolling the gel out was actually quite easy, and quite familiar. If anyone has ever painted with old lead base oil paint when it’s a little cold out? That’s exactly how gel coat feels lol.

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tnelsmn
12-08-2021, 08:49 PM
Heck yeah!!! Looks killer!

LakeFever
12-08-2021, 09:02 PM
Thanks man your build thread was the main road map and we wouldn’t have done nearly as good a job without it :cheers:

I forgot to mention we also gave it a good wipe down with acetone about an hour before we gel’d it. We played with tinting the gel a bit, so the gel is very light grey. Tomorrow with the waxed gel we are going to darken it up some more because I have serious light sensitivity and find white boats hard to be in. We are also going to try and do some sort of fleck finish with a darker grey again. Fingers crossed I’ll update after we get that done

LakeFever
12-09-2021, 02:47 PM
When we gel’d it yesterday we noticed the stitching in the 1708 would take up a little gel and swell. No big deal but it did leave a slightly sharp rough feel that the wife and daughter won’t like so we gently ran a small sanding pad with 80 over it today. It cleaned up quick although plugged the paper every ten strokes lol. Then we hit it with waxed gel tinted to a decent medium gray and did some fleck with slightly darker grey. We’re pleased with it.

Next stop is bonding the cap :D


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rjdubiel
12-09-2021, 04:29 PM
Looks soooo nice when brand new! This thing is going to be one nice ride just like Tony's. Brand new boats, fantastic. Mine, more of a beater race boat that looks good from 50 feet!

LakeFever
12-09-2021, 04:48 PM
Thanks Rj, ya it’s basically new aside from the skin. It’s very satisfying work which was a pleasant surprise. My first go with fiberglass, I think we could cut the time to do this in half if we ever do another one. It took a while to get a feel for it, especially with the short time window to work with catalyzed resin. I learned a ton along the way. Good times

LakeFever
12-15-2021, 07:17 PM
Been busy lately but today we managed to get the deck bonded to the hull. We set the stringers into the knees using core bond and we ran black 5200 down the lip and clamped it. It took exactly one tube per side. I’m wondering how long I should leave it clamped though? Not sure how long that 5200 takes to cure.

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89LASER
12-16-2021, 07:39 AM
I think the 5200 states on the tube cures to touch in 4-6 hours, cures in 24 hours. If you have a towel or something you wiped your hands with, use that as a reference.

LakeFever
12-16-2021, 03:25 PM
it does say on the tube but it’s rather basic. It says >48 hrs. It’s still tacky. Going to leave it until Saturday and hopefully it’s tacky enough not to stick to us so we can get back to work. Funny thing I’ve been using this stuff for many years just never really paid attention to how long it took to cure. Under bolts, screws and whatnot what does it matter?

LakeFever
12-20-2021, 06:23 PM
We tied in the knees to the upper stringers and began tabbing the deck onto the hull with 1708 strips 10” long with 2” overlap. Was going great but ran out of resin or we would have wrapped that up today. Once we get the cap fully tied in from below we are going to take a break for Christmas. I just realized I didn’t take any pics today

VkingMike
01-04-2022, 08:35 AM
Just found this build thread, I love the pictures and info. I'll be needing all this when I am ready to start coring and glassing

XstreamVking
01-05-2022, 07:58 AM
VKINGMIKE, start a build thread when you get around to beginning yours. Lots of guys here to help...

LakeFever
01-05-2022, 08:46 AM
I wouldn’t have a tenth as good of a build without the guidance and support from you guys. There’s some other great threads to reference mike, Tnels thread is awesome and sooo informative. Xstream has links in his sig and has been a stellar guide for me and many others on laying glass. Outasite also a great build thread. There’s many more but those are recent and what came to mind.

I’m getting itchy to get back on this thing to bring it home. Soon I hope

LakeFever
01-05-2022, 03:15 PM
I meant to ask is one 4” tab of 1708 enough to bond the cap down?

tnelsmn
01-05-2022, 04:24 PM
I meant to ask is one 4” tab of 1708 enough to bond the cap down?

Thats all I did...
I figure that was better that what the factory did.

LakeFever
01-05-2022, 04:45 PM
It seems very strong but this is one of those guess spots because I didn’t cut the deck off I don’t have any reference to go on. The 5200 seems quite strong on its own in fact. Anyways thanks Tony I’ll stick with one and done too

tnelsmn
01-05-2022, 06:50 PM
From what I could see on mine was the factory threw in some CSM and called it good. That and they used resin in the seam for the glue.

LakeFever
01-25-2022, 04:34 PM
Back at it again today. Finished tying in the deck to the hull as far as I could get. I reached about 16”
away from the bow eye. I have a younger thin friend coming by tomorrow to help reach the rest. We also tied in the bottom of the splashwell and the inside of the knees. Makes for four more layers of 1708 over the lower engine bolt holes. I’ve lost count now but that puts us around ten layers thick. I hope that’s enough for the coosa. Tomorrow we will tie in the top of the splashwell and get some glass over the dash as well. Then it might just be time to flip it over :D

Zammit_Racing
01-25-2022, 05:20 PM
Looks good! his is the part I’m not looking forward too since the voodoo is real small and tight won’t be fun..

Hydrostream Voodoo Rebuild/Restoration
Instagram: http://instagram.com/zammit_racing/
Rebuild: https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?361065-Hydrostream-voodoo-rebuild-restoration
Videos: https://youtube.com/channel/UCGy7j7CoScBfMiWNNYzgruA

bbezok
01-25-2022, 08:19 PM
Can't imagine that's going to be fun for your friend......

VkingMike
01-26-2022, 08:47 AM
Back at it again today. Finished tying in the deck to the hull as far as I could get. I reached about 16”
away from the bow eye. I have a younger thin friend coming by tomorrow to help reach the rest. We also tied in the bottom of the splashwell and the inside of the knees. Makes for four more layers of 1708 over the lower engine bolt holes. I’ve lost count now but that puts us around ten layers thick. I hope that’s enough for the coosa. Tomorrow we will tie in the top of the splashwell and get some glass over the dash as well. Then it might just be time to flip it over :D

I've dreaded crawling up there to attempt to replace the old bow eye glassing. I know for a fact, I cannot fit up there lol

bbezok
01-26-2022, 08:52 AM
Not many can........need Orangatang arms...

LakeFever
01-26-2022, 02:35 PM
Well as it turned out my skinny helper couldn’t get any further up then I did yesterday so I sucked in the gut and squeezed my face between the deck and the hull and got it tabbed within a few inches of the bow eye. Calling that good. Also ran thickened corebond to help bond and radius the seams and a couple layers of 1708 on the top side of the transom to the splashwell and began tabbing in the corners. Going to have to take another run or two to wrap the splashwell up. Also ran a skim of thickened corebond over the dash pinholes and laid a piece of 1708 right across it. That brings the cap construction very close to complete.


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bbezok
01-26-2022, 02:49 PM
looking real good!

LakeFever
01-27-2022, 02:35 PM
I think we finally have wet on wet lays sorted out. There’s two layers of 1708 on the corners, down the seam, and up and over the transom top going down about midway on the exterior transom skin. The corners are all woven in layers so there’s about 6 layers of 1708 in the corners and another 4 on the top part of the transom. Then we skimmed the top of it all with 1.5oz CSM. Calling the transom structure done at this point. Starting to feel the excitement coming on now each day it’s more of a complete boat again. We still have to repair the cracks on the edges of the cap in a few spots and finish off covering the old rigging holes and then fare it. We might leave that for the end and flip it to finish the bottom of the hull first though.


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VkingMike
01-27-2022, 02:38 PM
up and over the transom top going down about midway on the exterior transom skin.

This is what I was wondering/asking in my thread, thanks for that. Now I know this needs to be done.:cheers:

LakeFever
01-27-2022, 03:29 PM
This is what I was wondering/asking in my thread, thanks for that. Now I know this needs to be done.:cheers:

I have a lot of glass on the transom. I did most on the inside before laying in the coosa it’s all in this thread if you read through it but I had a slight taper towards the top of the exterior of my transom which is why I went up and over half and approx 25% with the second layer. When this all cures I will fare it all out perfectly flat. Side to side it is very flat already but top to bottom it was slightly convex. Whatever lays you do the outside of the transom needs to be perfectly flat and hopefully square to the bow. Hope this helps ya out

tnelsmn
01-27-2022, 04:33 PM
Looking fantastic, Lake! Sure is a god feeling when it's one piece agin.

LakeFever
01-27-2022, 04:38 PM
Yes it sure is. I was doing the little happy dance today. You can lightly tap anywhere on the hull with your finger and feel it on the other side. It’s so solid now. I also forgot I still have a couple caps to lay on the top front of the knees. I’ll probably leave that until we finish the bottom though. It’s time to flip this thing!

LakeFever
01-28-2022, 04:48 PM
Ended up with 3/8” glass on each side of the transom. It’s a blend of two types of 1708, and 1808. Very pleased with it. We made a bracket to lift the boat and spin it hanging off a couple chain falls. We were going to try and mount it on the cradle inverted but it’s going to be too high to work on without a ladder so we scrapped the idea of using the cradle and next week we will fab up a new inverted dolly deal to get it where we want it but still be mobile.

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LakeFever
02-03-2022, 09:09 PM
Thinking ahead a little and after we gel the bottom we are going to plant it back on the trailer. The trailer I have for now is some bass pro deal it’s decent I’m going to upgrade in time but the bunks didn’t line up that well with the hull so we dealt with that and added some extra bunks under the stringer area as well. The axle is also a little too far forward which we will relocate so until it’s fully rigged and we can position the axle properly, I’m leaving things bare bunks only. I have four new pressure treated bunks and carpet still to install. You can see the green tabs where new bunks are going. The two in the pic are the old water logged originals that are getting binned soon

VkingMike
02-04-2022, 09:11 AM
This looks identical to my trailer, I also added two side bunks for piece of mind. I also moved the axle back 12" to help with tongue weight.

LakeFever
02-04-2022, 11:55 AM
It’s a decent trailer 15” radials, drop spindles and and a strong frame. It’s a Trailstar brand I have side guide bunks to go on as well as steps, fenders and whatnot. I also realized it probably doesn’t make sense in my last post what I did but I angle cut the existing perches and welded on new ones beside to take the bunk squarely. Some more pics should explain the story. I zapped these up with a small 200 mig. Juuuuust big enough to weld these


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LakeFever
02-23-2022, 06:17 PM
Well so much for having this thing sprayed out by end of February :leaving: anyways we managed to get some time to work on it today. Got the upside down cradle finished, flipped it over and gave it a quick wash. Real shame that the gel was half sanded off on the deck and all the cracks etc or I would have happily re clear gel’d this thing and run it as is. Looks great wet!


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LakeFever
03-01-2022, 07:02 PM
During earlier phases of the build we sanded some of the hull and as anyone who has done this knows the glass dust mess is insane. When I removed the gel from the transom the entire room from floor to ceiling became an itch factory. I used a leaf blower and lots of compressed air and it still took three attempts to get it to a usable state again with no itch. So now that we are removing most of the gel we erected a poly booth to do the dirty work in and for the two days work this took to build, with our first half day of sanding it’s already well worth the effort. We figure about two days more of sanding with the da’s using 40 grit Diablo paper and then we start to repair and fare.

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tnelsmn
03-01-2022, 07:11 PM
Lake, are you taking all the gel off like I did? If so just grab a 5" grinder and throw a 60 grit or so on it and go to town. You'll be done in no time compared to the DA. Take it 80-90% with the grinder and finish with the DA. A coat of primer and a round of block sanding will take care of any imperfections caused from the grinder.

Tony.

LakeFever
03-01-2022, 07:19 PM
Thanks Tony i appreciate the input. I did run the grinder with flexi disk and 24 grit for some of it but the das with the 40 Diablo paper is very close to the same stripping speed believe it or not. I really don’t mind sanding it’s very familiar to me and kinda relaxing. Aside from being a bit hard on the shoulders and hands.

*edit* forgot to answer no we are not taking all the gel off but we are stripping the area under the core to the first chine which will be getting glassed over. The boat was run with a soft core and the edges of the core are all craze plus some other cracked areas so we want to sandwich it in between new mat to prevent print through. Not going to grind out the cracks there’s too many plus they are so stiff now we think it will be ok with this method. If anyone has anything else to offer or suggest I’m allllllll ears

LakeFever
03-04-2022, 05:20 PM
Been plugging away a little bit here and there. One more full day of prep and we are ready to lay some glass
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XstreamVking
03-05-2022, 09:26 AM
Looks good to me...

LakeFever
03-08-2022, 04:19 PM
Okay gents I’m looking for feedback on the next steps here. What we are planning is a full length lay of 1708 over the entire running surface from chine to chine and cap it with 1oz csm wet on wet then gel with wax so it cures and we can sand it. Then we fare with putty and guide coat and prime with duratec VE primer. All this is good where I’m a little uneasy is I have a few spots that are impacts that were nicely hidden under the gel. Thankfully all of these are going to be under the layer of 1708 we are laying. We are thinking these spots are stable and will be fine sandwiched in the laminate but I wonder if they should be ground out and filled with csm first?

also we have stress cracks that are also going to be sandwiched in the middle of the 1708 so we want to leave these sanded seen in pics and lay over and call it a day. If this sounds unwise please let me know we are close to doing this.

Finally if we fare directly over the 1708 on the transom will that print through? Do we have to cover all structural glass with csm first before faring? I’ve attached some pics of what I’m talking about. Thanks guys we are closing in here

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LakeFever
03-09-2022, 04:38 PM
We ground out all the questionable areas after our first csm/gel with wax patch was laid and fared. It is literally an invisible patch we were shocked how well it turned out. While I still feel the questionable spots would be fine in the sandwich now that the hull is sound and no longer flexi, I sure don’t want these cracks printing through in ten years time and I have zero experience with these materials and shrink over time so rather than chance it we added another day of work and dug it all out.

pics are the test area for faring in one of the worst spots with csm layered. We first ground the damaged area smooth and filled maybe 7 layers of 1.5oz leaving the patch proud and using the da with 40 grit it took about 30 mins to flatten it out. We are very pleased with the result

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rjdubiel
03-09-2022, 04:55 PM
1708 over the bottom seems like a lot of glass to add to the outside of the hull. What did you bed the core in again? I think you put down 1708 under the core, maybe even multiple layers i think with the overlapping before you bed the core down and then glassed over the core. It will be bullet proof but may be unnecessary, but I do not know! Looking good either way!

LakeFever
03-09-2022, 06:13 PM
We did put 1708 down under the core inside the hull and the plan was to repair the outside and gel. Once we started sanding it so much of the factory glass is air pocketed and crumbly we realized the quality of factory materials/layup was way worse than I expected. That along with all the dings ans bruises from 40 years of pounding is what brought us to lay the 1708 over the exterior hull as well. We couldn’t really see another way to do it that would bring the quality of the hull skin up to similar strength and durability as the rest of the build. More time? Yes indeed. More cost? Yes for sure. Better end result? We sure hope so. Appreciate the input Rj and everyone else. More updates coming soon

VkingMike
03-10-2022, 06:15 AM
On the upside, truly a bulletproof build when completed.

I've used 1708 for everything on mine, just to keep it uniform. I think the only CSM is in small patch work. And I'm probably still putting in less weight than I took out from the previous "rebuild" At first I wasn't sure about the strength, just because I didn't know much about glass. (Still don't really) But I've kinda learned there really isn't a wrong way to do any of this.

LakeFever
03-10-2022, 09:32 AM
That’s the idea here I want a tough fun hull that hopefully isn’t heavier than the factory but it probably is. We laid in a lot of glass. I used 1808, 1208, and two different types of 1708 during the layup. I only used csm for a few base layers and mostly for tailing. What we are doing now is finishing and csm is great for this it sands out very smooth

rjdubiel
03-10-2022, 10:06 AM
That’s the idea here I want a tough fun hull that hopefully isn’t heavier than the factory but it probably is. We laid in a lot of glass. I used two types of 1708, 1808, and 1208 during the layup. I only used csm for a few base layers and mostly for tailing. What we are doing now is finishing and csm is great for this it sands out very smooth

Maybe a call to some of the glass guys that will take the time to answer some questions on weather 1708 is needed on the outside of the hull or just some layers of CSM, you will be sanding it smooth anyway and the strong side of the hull is inside the hull. There is not really any force pushing from inside the hull out so that outside hull glass is not the strength of the hull. The original hull was only chopper gun in the mold, then balsa, then they started with more chopper and roving. I think anything will be fine, but just a lot of glass outside of the hull as you put down 1708 and will need CSM over all of that to keep the print through from happening (or under it all depending what side is up on the 1708). Again, I am no professional but don't want you to have a tank that will not perform like a Hydrostream should.

LakeFever
03-10-2022, 10:25 AM
I’m perfectly confident that csm and faring in as we have in our test area would be fine. What I’m not happy with is how porous and crappy the factory chop glass quality is. Each spot that I had to grind and sand through is porous and weak compared to the new glass we laid in. So the 1708 skin is not a strength upgrade for the torsion aspect it’s completely for a durability over time and strike resistance aspect. Thankfully with 100% coosa build we did drop a pile of weight out and being my fourth stream my other hulls didn’t run that much slower with a couple passengers. There’s no way I’ve added 4-500lbs extra so that’s in the back of mind. As with anything if it ain’t fast enough add more power is always an option. Appreciate the input guys