Mercury Give Us A V6 4 Stroke 225 Pro XS

[Greg G]

.............
Hello .............. Mother Merc? You are building some great new stuff but why not give us a 200 and 225 Pro XS and not just the 175 Pro XS.

You have the 87 octane V6 platform all ready to go. We need 475lbs of lower center of gravity fun with warranty. Come on Mercury :cheers:

[JBS]

Don't think it going to happen.

[Riverratt]

The V8 200 & 225 pro xs is only 35 more pounds than the 175 V6 pro xs which is not bad and turns 200 more rpms.

[Greg G]

...........
The V8 sits way to "tall" for smaller boats which hurts handling. The 4 stroke V6 is a little lighter as well as having plenty of 3.4L torgue for boats under 20'.

[XP300]

Simple math says in F-1 trim the V-6 is 270 ish at the Prop
A nicely done Production V-6 at 240-250 @ 7000 has a nice ring to it.

[OceanMarine]

forget the ProXS we really need a 200 or a 225 "R" with a sportmaster and solid mounts out of either the inline 4 or the V6 with the lightweight cowl and shave weight maybe a 15 mid to keep these under 500lb (the v6 is currently about 520lb despite advertisement wt and the v8 i believe around 560 or so) We basically need a replacement for the 200xs

[JBS]

I'm with you all. Those would be some great motors. The sub 20 performance boats got kicked to the curb when Merc quit making the 2.5 performance engines.The V8s are great,just for bigger boats.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Ain't happenin'..hoard your 2.5 parts. That boating demographic that made Mercury "racing" has left the station. Now Mercury Center Console that is another thing! ;)

[Mc556]

Mercury really has abandoned a market segment for sure. I bought my first performance boat this year. It’s a Allison SS2000 and I love it. However if I want to go with something newer then what? I have a good income but I will not be buying a twin 450r sport cat setup.

[powerabout]

Mercury really has abandoned a market segment for sure. I bought my first performance boat this year. It’s a Allison SS2000 and I love it. However if I want to go with something newer then what? I have a good income but I will not be buying a twin 450r sport cat setup.
you next boat will be a 35cig with a single ????HP Merc outboard in the year 20??...lol

[Greg G]

forget the ProXS we really need a 200 or a 225 "R" with a sportmaster and solid mounts out of either the inline 4 or the V6 with the lightweight cowl and shave weight maybe a 15 mid to keep these under 500lb (the v6 is currently about 520lb despite advertisement wt and the v8 i believe around 560 or so) We basically need a replacement for the 200xs

Good info. Where does the 520lbs come from? Merc needs to buy a digital scale.

If Mercury did offer a V6 200 or 225 with the option of a Sporty that would make an XS a winner IMO.

[OceanMarine]

Good info. Where does the 520lbs come from? Merc needs to buy a digital scale.

If Mercury did offer a V6 200 or 225 with the option of a Sporty that would make an XS a winner IMO.

apparently those motors are weighed by mercury for there advertisement weight without cowls, fluids or gear cases. A well know boat manufacturer weighed the motors on gave me that info. I did not personally weigh these motors.

[Greg G]

Mercury really has abandoned a market segment for sure. I bought my first performance boat this year. It’s a Allison SS2000 and I love it.
However if I want to go with something newer then what?

100% agree. The thing that is surprising is how easy they could revive the under 20' segment with just a few changes to there V6 product line.

There are a lot of folks out there with $20k in the pocket who are running out of 2.5 parts IMO.

[WavetoWave]

I do believe it is possible Racing will do something with the V6, they are tight lipped but it's very likely. They make a niche market 15" 60R and they sold it out in no time, so they can easily do a 200/225 V6 with parts they already have.

Here's the thing, the 175 ProXS is a good value. You can take a 225 V6 and add the Racing lower mounts: part# 8M0149561 (the V6 and V8 share many parts). And you can swap out the V8 TM case, if you feel you need the 1.75 gears, and you have a pretty decent setup. But it would make way more sense for Racing to just offer the turnkey version with optional SM.

I'd actually like to see the 250R as a V6, just makes more sense. I might have some numbers for a 225 V6 with the TM that's being tested soon.

[WavetoWave]

Good info. Where does the 520lbs come from? Merc needs to buy a digital scale.

If Mercury did offer a V6 200 or 225 with the option of a Sporty that would make an XS a winner IMO.

The 250R is advertised as 520 Lbs, without the cowl, no oil.



[*=left]GEARCASE
Sport Master
[*=left]GEAR RATIO
1.75:1
[*=left]WEIGHT (LBS./KGS.)
520/236

[Greg G]

The 250R is advertised as 520 Lbs, without the cowl, no oil.

If you ask some of the old guys on this board who have a lot of water miles under there belts, they will tell you that Mercury Marine has routinely lied about the actual weight of there OB motors for many years.

Getting an accurate weight of the 300XS was as impossible as getting true 21' SOB top speeds until Wildman hung one from a digital scale for 100% truth.

If Mercury Racing offered a "225R" based on the V6 that would be great. A 225 Pro XS for a few grand less, with the up charge "option" of a Sporty, might politically be an easier step in the right direction. Either way, the motor looks like it would weigh more than what mother Merc tells the folks buying them. :(

[Greg G]

Randy time to put the R up on the digital fish scale and get a true weight on that bad boy.


I did. 561 lbs

V8 300R at 561 pounds. The real deal once again from Wildman. I'm sure Merc could get the V6 225 to 500 lbs with a tweak or two.

[Risco]

V8 300R at 561 pounds. The real deal once again from Wildman. I'm sure Merc could get the V6 225 to 500 lbs with a tweak or two.
I assume that’s turn key motor weight all fluids?

[powerabout]

100% agree. The thing that is surprising is how easy they could revive the under 20' segment with just a few changes to there V6 product line.

There are a lot of folks out there with $20k in the pocket who are running out of 2.5 parts IMO.
they will end up carby OMC..lol big power plenty of parts

[powerabout]

I often have a hard time understanding why you post things that add nothing to the topic at hand. :cheers:
lack of HP parts for a 2.5 300+ hp Merc?
you dont need any HP parts to get 300+ from an old carby OMC, just some grinding
and they are lighter than todays 300


What are the some of long loved race classes and the new growing ones..
SST45 - fishing engine
Texas F1, ( now in Australia) carby FF block - fishing engine
You just make the rules to suit the engine/power/cost and reliability you want.
why do these classes exist, maybe the factories cant control you racing a fishing engine as there are millions of them out there?
just sayin...

[Greg G]

I assume that’s turn key motor weight all fluids?

Yes, that is correct. 300R V8 is 561lbs. No one has put the V6 225 up on the digital scale yet but I do not doubt the 520 lbs that was posted earlier.

[Greg G]

Now I am wondering what the cowl on the 2020 4 stroke Fishing V6 225 weighs.

[Greg G]

I do believe it is possible Racing will do something with the V6, they are tight lipped but it's very likely. They make a niche market 15" 60R and they sold it out in no time, so they can easily do a 200/225 V6 with parts they already have.

Here's the thing, the 175 ProXS is a good value. You can take a 225 V6 and add the Racing lower mounts: part# 8M0149561 (the V6 and V8 share many parts). And you can swap out the V8 TM case, if you feel you need the 1.75 gears, and you have a pretty decent setup. But it would make way more sense for Racing to just offer the turnkey version with optional SM.

I'd actually like to see the 250R as a V6, just makes more sense. I might have some numbers for a 225 V6 with the TM that's being tested soon.

W2W are you sure you can do that to a 175 ProXS? If the parts worked, it would still be a shame to void the long warranty :(

[WavetoWave]

W2W are you sure you can do that to a 175 ProXS? If the parts worked, it would still be a shame to void the long warranty :(

Yes, the V6 shares the same lower mounts as the regular and ProXS V8 four stroke, Racing uses solid lowers. You can buy a CPO one with a one year warranty for a discount. Motor mounts won't hurt the warranty.

[Greg G]

................477752....

[home made tunnel]

apparently those motors are weighed by mercury for there advertisement weight without cowls, fluids or gear cases. A well know boat manufacturer weighed the motors on gave me that info. I did not personally weigh these motors.

You're almost correct. They include the gearcase while weighing them. Just no fluids or cowls.

[Chaz]

Wrong decade guys. Last decade guys would never buy a four stroke , till they quit selling two strokes. They / you flopped like fish on a hot dock . Now in the era of Joemalla/Kerry .. you want more power from existing model's .. come on man .. better get some majic crystals for your cardiac arrhythmia converter .. Pppffftttttt
That or a longer extension cord. :)
Isn't it about time you guys quit thinking of yourselves .. and start getting ready to contribute to the two trillion dollar investment of convincing mother nature she is wrong in the manor in which she deals with the planet on a daily basis ... :rolleyes:
OK , well maybe 1.75 trillion .. the skim gets spread wider these days .. will .25 trillion be enough ..???

2021 will be an exciting year for horsepower ... :nonod:

[Greg G]

forget the ProXS we really need a 200 or a 225 "R" with a sportmaster and solid mounts out of either the inline 4 or the V6 with the lightweight cowl and shave weight maybe a 15 mid to keep these under 500lb (the v6 is currently about 520lb despite advertisement wt and the v8 i believe around 560 or so) We basically need a replacement for the 200xs

Totally agree that a V6 225 "R" would be the ticket and easy to live with given 3 years of warranty.

As to weight, Mercury Racing tells us the 3 ram 300R weighs 512 lbs while we know the true all in scale weight is 561 lbs. I'd think getting V6 "R" under 500 pounds would be pretty easy for them if they decide to do it.

[Chaz]

Stop trying to apply common sense .. :nonod: :eek: :thumbsup:

Like it or not .. Power gave you the truth, done in his version of the queen's English. :o

If a dogs bollocks 225 - 300 horse outboard is of your desire, then quit banging on about the Mum ship doing it for you. Good god man get on with building the bloody thing yourself ... ( or something similar to that) ;)

Or build an old two stroke, cuz you can self wty. a half a dozen (or more) of them ... for what the new wty. really costs .. :cheers: <--- {two skroke earl]={{{{

[Greg G]

You're almost correct. They include the gearcase while weighing them. Just no fluids or cowls.

The cowl on a 300R was weighed by Wildman and is a fat 28 lbs.

A V6 with a lightweight cowl is one quick and easy weight saver. Give the people a 225 "R" V6 with three years of warranty!

[Greg G]

Mercury, is there a V6 225 R in our future?

[XstreamVking]

Give it up guys, we are as extinct as dinosaurs to mercury.

[Greg G]

.............
Hello .............. Mother Merc? You are building some great new stuff but why not give us a 200 and 225 Pro XS and not just the 175 Pro XS. You have the 87 octane V6 platform all ready to go. We need 475lbs of lower center of gravity fun with warranty. Come on Mercury


Forget the ProXS we really need a 200 or a 225 "R" with a sportmaster and solid mounts out of either the inline 4 or the V6 with the lightweight cowl and shave weight maybe a 15 mid to keep these under 500lb (the v6 is currently about 520lb despite advertisement wt and the v8 i believe around 560 or so) We basically need a replacement for the 200xs

Let the Christmas wishing begin!

A lightweight V6 225 R with warranty from Merc would be a nice surprise but we'll get a lump of coal instead a year later. :leaving:

[Greg G]

....
496973

[Greg G]

....
496974

[Greg G]

....
496975

[Greg G]

forget the ProXS we really need a 200 or a 225 "R" with a sportmaster and solid mounts out of either the inline 4 or the V6 with the lightweight cowl and shave weight maybe a 15 mid to keep these under 500lb (the v6 is currently about 520lb despite advertisement wt and the v8 i believe around 560 or so) We basically need a replacement for the 200xs

Yes, you are hitting the nail on the head. Is Mercury going to give us a 3.4 V6 225R in 2023?

[David]

LOL, they should just make the 200XS again. Except price it competitively. The Gen II 200XS cost more than a 300XS and had no warranty. Sales were poor. For that matter there has been a used one on Reynolds site forever Reynolds Racing and Marine Used Outboards (reynoldsracingmarine.com) (http://reynoldsracingmarine.com/mercob.htm)

I love my 200XS

[Greg G]

LOL, they should just make the 200XS again. Except price it competitively. The Gen II 200XS cost more than a 300XS and had no warranty. Sales were poor. For that matter there has been a used one on Reynolds site forever Reynolds Racing and Marine Used Outboards (reynoldsracingmarine.com) (http://reynoldsracingmarine.com/mercob.htm)

I love my 200XS

Glenn sold that motor many years ago.

I would prefer the torque of the 3.4 V6 given it would be roughly the same weight as the 200XS Gen 2. There is still "no replacement for displacement".

[RiverRat71]

Glenn sold that motor many years ago.

I would prefer the torque of the 3.4 V6 given it would be roughly the same weight as the 200XS Gen 2. There is still "no replacement for displacement".
I think the quote should be "There is no replacement". Maybe should be Merc's new slogan. RR

[Greg G]

Well said RR ........

505580

[Greg G]

So it has been over a year now since the 3.4 APX was announced and still no factory warranty 3.4 225 "R" model for the little guys. :nonod:

[JBS]

Give it up guys, we are as extinct as dinosaurs to mercury.

Sad but true. When repower time comes,I'm probably going to bite the bullet and go 4stroke. Hopefully,by then there will be motor available like we a talking about. I'll try not to have any expectations .

[Chaz]

So it has been over a year now since the 3.4 APX was announced and still no factory warranty 3.4 225 "R" model for the little guys. :nonod:

https://i.imgur.com/4d1adzzl.jpg

[pcrussell50]

Sad but true. When repower time comes,I'm probably going to bite the bullet and go 4stroke. Hopefully,by then there will be motor available like we a talking about. I'll try not to have any expectations .

Nothing wrong with a 4stroke as long as it’s not too heavy for your boat.

Doesn’t Brunswick own boat companies too? Why make light motors that you can use on your existing boat when they can put their thumb on the scale and nudge you into buying something new?

I have a Mercaha 90 FourStroke (Yamaha F100) on a classic Whaler. It’s… heavy. I think it weighs as much as my 2.0 150. This boat is strictly a utility cruiser/fisher. So the last degree of performance is not important to me.

In a way, We (as a country) have only ourselves to blame for this. In land vehicles we buy only automatics and we daily drive large trucks or SUVs instead of something light and nimble. We should not be surprised at the direction our collective taste in boats is taking too.

Our brains have devolved to the point where apparently signs like this are necessary:
505613

-Peter

[David]

Does the V6 have more torque then the 2.5 optimax engines. It’s widely reported that the V8 makes more torque then the 300XS

A power stroke every rotation is a partial replacement for displacement.

[pcrussell50]

A power stroke every rotation is a partial replacement for displacement.

This seems to be why 2-strokes are not completely dead, and are even making a bit of a comeback in motocross. IIRC the formula for four strokes was that it took 450cc four strokes to compete in the 250cc two stroke classes.

This is a great read on the differences between two and four strokes. It is from the perspective of motocross. But most of it applies here too:

Here's Why Two-Strokes Went Away (And How They're Coming Back)
https://www.dirtlegal.com/blog/2018/5/16/is-the-2-stroke-dirt-scene-dying

-Peter

[Greg G]

...
Here is a box stock Promax 225 dyno sheet right after rebuild and break in ...........

505625

[Greg G]

...
Here is a stock Promax 225 with just the ECU raised .......

505626

[Greg G]

.....
And here is an Opti 200XS Gen 2 ROS 2.5 (not the weaker earlier Gen 1) dyno pull ......

505627

[Greg G]

And last when Diamond (just before they retired) rebuilt my 225x motor Marty broke it in and then put it on his dyno and he told me it made exactly 250hp on the print. I did not get the torque. The 225x was stock.

[Greg G]

If you look at how the 3.4 V6 APX motor is doing so far in competition, it seems to be running better times on the exact same boat that was previously equipped with a 2.5 Opti 200XS Gen2 motor. That tells me the brand new 3.4 platform is making the same or better torque than the 2.5 and the same or better horsepower as well. We can normalize the charts above and say that 245hp and 245 lbs/torque for the 2.5 Promax and the later Smartcraft "X" 225 model seems fair. The 200XS Gen 2 is a bit below those models by a hair.

That said, the 3.4L V6 platform should perform better in every way on the powerhead side. Fat Sporty? who knows.

Also not known is the true scale weight of a 200XS Gen 2 ROS, so David would you mind this winter taking your 200XS motor off and hanging it on a digital scale like Wildman did for the 300XS and for the 300R which weighed 561lbs with fluids ;) I'm having a hard time believing Mercs published weight of 434 lbs as those factory wonks always lied on weight.

Chaz, please come in now and give me a good old fashioned youngster beat down knowing the bastards at Merc will never build us a 225R with warranty. :leaving:

[David]

I don’t expect my 200XS weighs 434, but is short shaft so the weight is low and it has a ratcheting gearcase. If Mr Allison approves of it on his 20 footers, it’s enough for me. The advantage for Mercury to bring this motor back is no development cost. It wasn’t an assembly line engine anyway was it?

[WaterZebra]

What competition? All we have seen is comparison test videos from lakes in Wisconsin or Florida? The APX showed up ONCE for display purposes at Havasu last October. I don't see anybody lining up to buy them either? As I have said before, the APX is a show room queen and will never be run in numbers close to what the racing 2 strokes were!

[WaterZebra]

200 Pro XS..........they already did and it's a V8. V6 Pro XS line? Not likely. Your splitting hairs on weight comparisons in the 4 stroke world.

[Greg G]

What competition? All we have seen is comparison test videos from lakes in Wisconsin or Florida? The APX showed up ONCE for display purposes at Havasu last October. I don't see anybody lining up to buy them either? As I have said before, the APX is a show room queen and will never be run in numbers close to what the racing 2 strokes were!


200 Pro XS..........they already did and it's a V8. V6 Pro XS line? Not likely. Your splitting hairs on weight comparisons in the 4 stroke world.

Yes, you are correct. Not regular widespread competition but the 3.4 held it's own on some testing against the older tech. Let's be clear, I have zero interest in a race motor conversation. This is more about hoping Mercury takes all the "parts" they already have and produce a consumer 3.4 225R with three years of warranty. I think a lot of folks would be interested in that in Sporty config for $25k.

On your weight comment I think a 225R V6 config could be brought in at a true 450 lbs (90 lb savings is a lot of hairs) and with a lower CG.
Both fairly appealing IMO.

[Greg G]

I don’t expect my 200XS weighs 434, but is short shaft so the weight is low and it has a ratcheting gearcase. If Mr Allison approves of it on his 20 footers, it’s enough for me. The advantage for Mercury to bring this motor back is no development cost. It wasn’t an assembly line engine anyway was it?

Sadly, we will all see Jesus walk though our kitchen before Mercury brings back a hipo 2 stroke into the market. :(

[WaterZebra]

Yes, you are correct. Not regular widespread competition but the 3.4 held it's own on some testing against the older tech. Let's be clear, I have zero interest in a race motor conversation. This is more about hoping Mercury takes all the "parts" they already have and produce a consumer 3.4 225R with three years of warranty. I think a lot of folks would be interested in that in Sporty config for $25k.

On your weight comment I think a 225R V6 config could be brought in at a true 450 lbs (90 lb savings is a lot of hairs) and with a lower CG.
Both fairly appealing IMO.

I have a 200 Pro XS V8 and the only surprise I got is how much bigger everything got. The gearcase is basically a Bravo outdrive? I swapped out a Honda BF150 (4 cyl) for the Pro XS V8 and the height profile is nearly the same. I got 50 more hp and 2 more cylinders (for torque) with just a 30 lb increase over the Honda. Some kind of marriage of the Sportmaster geaarcase would be nice though. CG has been a problem for everybody since 15 inch mids disappeared and 20s became the new norm. Didn't seem to bother the Mod VP guys any?

[David]

Thanks for posting the dyno curves. My butt dyno said that the 200XS is almost as strong as a Promax. It's nice to see that is not just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe Merc would have sold more if they had marketed it as a 225XS.

I'm sure if Mercury thought that there was money to be made selling a high performance 2 stroke they would offer one. Same story with a high performance V6 4 stroke. Mercury doesn't think there is a market. And the other guys basically ignore the performance market.

[Chaz]

Chaz, please come in now and give me a good old fashioned youngster beat down knowing the bastards at Merc will never build us a 225R with warranty. :leaving:

Greg, my brother ... there is nothing I (or anyone else) can say or do that can match the personal torture you put yourself thru, over this .. :(

You referring to them as : "the bastards at merc" .. shows great strides towards .. personal recovery .. :thumbsup:

[Will hedrick]

I don’t expect my 200XS weighs 434, but is short shaft so the weight is low and it has a ratcheting gearcase. If Mr Allison approves of it on his 20 footers, it’s enough for me. The advantage for Mercury to bring this motor back is no development cost. It wasn’t an assembly line engine anyway was it?

Allison does not approve of my 3. L lol, recommended at 90-150 hp, im a little over that now, apx is best 4 stroke imo. If they would make a reverse and neutral for it and actually sell it to consumers